After the Bell: Teaching Tips With a Twist

A Podcast Within A Podcast: Stunt Brothers On Fire

• The Stunt Brothers • Season 2 • Episode 34

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In Episode 64, the Stunt Brothers start things off by going on a tangent about unseasonably cold spring weather, the splashdown of Artemis II, and Ryan Gosling’s movie Project Hail Mary. Roy can’t help but feel a little overlooked; after all, he’s a Canadian teacher who’s convinced he could pass as a more mature Ryan Gosling so where was the call for a stunt double? Our duo then circles back to listener feedback on their recent episode about report cards, sharing thoughtful and entertaining responses from their audience. But the real twist comes when Martin and Roy realize this episode is something entirely different: it’s a field trip that turns inward. It’s a podcast about their podcast, a conversation nested within itself like a matryoshka doll. Join the Stunt Brothers as they flip the script and take a seat on the other side of the mic, being interviewed by Tim Cavey of Teachers on Fire.
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Speaker 4

Good afternoon, podcast listeners everywhere. Welcome to After the Bell, a Stunt Brothers production. I'm Martin Stuible.

Speaker

And I'm Roy Hunt, and we share your pain, having taught a combined 70 years. Seven years. I know. Wow. So get out your marking, organize your supplies, or just pour yourself a coffee. I think I need something stronger. That's okay. And listen, engage, and interact with After the Bell, a podcast for you, the hardworking, dedicated teacher who wants free lesson plans, free advice, and a free meal. Well, I always show up for a free meal.

Speaker 4

Episode 63 of After the Bell, we are on. That's right. So season two, episode You said sixty-three? I did because it's actually episode sixty-four.

Speaker

Okay. So every one.

unknown

Okay.

Speaker

So then it would be season two, episode thirty-four. Yes. Yes. You knew that. I was I didn't know that.

Speaker 4

You uh rattled me a little bit. You did, I'm sorry. Yeah. So it's okay. And usually you can rattle because you have a rider. You have all the things listed, right? And and one of the things in your rider is that I don't give you surprises at the very beginning beginning of the episode.

Speaker

Yes. Certain things. You know, I mean, uh I think as a valued member of this podcast that there should be some things of respect. I should not be asked to do more than two practice runs. So I'll count down for you. I don't go higher than ten.

Speaker 4

So I messaged it.

Speaker

I messed up today because I wanted you to count past ten. And we did three practices. Yeah. Wow. So I know you've tried to force the third one on me, but I did two. Then I told you the rest you have to figure out on your own. Your agent might be calling me.

Speaker 4

Yes. You probably want coffee in your rider.

Speaker

Uh well, I wouldn't mind the coffee. Yeah. I don't know who's going to deliver it.

Speaker 4

About red jelly beans.

Speaker

I don't like I'm not a big fan of jelly beans, but I know, you know.

Speaker 4

Well, because there's a famous thing about the I think it was the Van Halen that insisted in their rider that you have red jelly beans. And everyone thought at the time, oh, those over-indulged arrogant rock stars. But it was a test because they wanted to make sure one of the jelly beans was red. And that to them, it was buried in their rider, let people know that they had read the rider. And they wanted Red Rider. Red Rider. That's probably how that name. That's how Tom Cochran made the band, right? But by following the rider, there was a lot of stuff about safety if they ever did outdoor concerts, if it was wet or rainy, their amplifiers. So for them, it was about safety by putting in something that was so kind of stupid, but you wouldn't have noticed it if you didn't read the rider. And I guess they ch and I don't think it always was red jelly beans if that was just the one that was used, but they would put something in there that you had to see, and they would know that if they got their bowl of jelly beans and this time, hey, there's no red jelly bean, the show's off. I don't feel safe. I don't feel safe. The lightning storm outside, forget it. How have you been doing, Mr.

Speaker

I've been well. I woke up to a surprise this morning. First of all, it's in for spring, it was incredibly cold. Felt cold. Frost on the ground, and I looked up into the local mountains and it snowed last night.

Speaker 4

It did. It did. And it felt like spring a few weeks ago.

Speaker 2

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4

And now it feels like a beginning of winter. I know. Makes you just want to just fly away to the moon, right? And that's why we enjoyed watching the Artemis. Yes. That was really cool. The splashdown happened. It was a success. And the very next day, I saw a great film called Project Hail Mary. Oh, right. Yeah. Cool. I really, really recommend seeing that. And it the nice thing about it is his character, even though he's this PhD scientist, there's all this issue about why he's not involved in the research anymore. And that's why they find him. But they find him as he's working as a grade five teacher. Oh. And they celebrate teachers in the in this in these scenes. He's like a fantastic teacher. He loves his students. That's where he wants to be. So it's it's a really neat moment for our Canadian actor, Ryan Gosling, to be there, but in a film that actually celebrates education. Not always how it's portrayed, right?

Speaker

I'm disappointed that I wasn't called in for as a stunt double or as a double. I am Canadian. I am a grade five teacher. I know. I do have a look about me that's this is like a more of a senior Ryan Gosling. Okay. So then maybe uh you know, I I think I should have been called because when you have stunt doubles, the stunt double should reflect exactly the environment. So teacher. And uh you know, I I was in uh I'm a geologist, so that I do have scientists in my background. Right. And uh you're a little disappointed when you I think I'm gonna have to uh call somebody uh or call my agent. But they're watching this, yes.

Speaker 4

The casting director is gonna see this. And they'll go, there will be another film. You'll get your chance. Right. Okay. I'll let it go for now. Okay. What I didn't let go, I had to look on some of our comments because we had a lot of heated feelings about report cards. Just like with you at the same time. And our our our episode um a while back was talking about report cards and the 40, 50 hours that teachers put into it. We had all kinds of people saying. So let's let's share some of those comments. I well, the first one, I don't know if it's to do with report cards, but Carol just basically said, you guys make me laugh.

Speaker

Oh, uh You know what? I'm gonna gift her with uh 15 minutes of a laugh track from me. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Yeah.

Speaker 4

It's coming. And then Carolyn said there's no life when report cards, I mean learning update, are being written or procrastinated. And uh she's right. They don't even call them report cards anymore.

Speaker

And they learning update. Trevor Burrus, Jr. They have so many different names, right? There's student transcripts, uh academic reporter, and an academic record, right? A grade report, a progress report. And uh you know, it it it doesn't matter what name you use for them, it's still a frickin' report cutter. Still a report cutter.

Speaker 4

Trevor Burrus, Jr. Name still a rose. Well, actually, I should say, I mean Shakespeare's put it that way. Yeah. More a thorn by any other name is still a a thorn, right?

Speaker

Okay. Well, and and I'm gonna bring my farming background in. Okay. And you know, uh, no matter uh uh how you dress up a pig, you put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig. And I don't know why that is a farming saying.

Speaker 4

Um I don't know if it is. Who is that person that tried this one time? And someone said, Oh, oh, it's just a pig. It's just a pig. It's just a pig. It's just a report. Not always a family member, but oh, it's just a pig. And weren't they thinking with learning outcomes? Peaches would go, oh, oh, great. Learning outcomes. I love it. It's gonna be so easy. And then they looked at them and goes on. Oh, it's just a report card. Okay. Wow. And then you have more report card comments.

Speaker

So let's hear that. Yes, I do. Okay. Uh Wonder Kid said learning skills take forever. And then not all parents or guardians read them. No. Or even don't even get to see them. We've talked about that. Yeah. And then another listener said 40 hours on report cards after 29 years of teaching, um, it doesn't get any easier. No. And I think you and I both had that feeling that uh as master teachers, that's what they call someone who has a lot of experience, master teacher. Um, as master teachers, it it would still take so long to complete report cards. And you'd think after a period of time that it it would be easier. It should be easier. But then even as a master teacher feeling that it was taking forever, uh my heart would go out to those younger teachers who uh were taking a lot longer. They were. Can you imagine what it would be like you doing the modern day report card for your very first time?

Speaker 4

No. No checklist for them. No, thank you. Just learning uh just learning outcomes. Learning outcomes. Learning, learning, uh, what do we call it? Just learning updates. That's what they're called. Yeah. Well, we're going to field trip today, but we kind of are the field trip. Because what it's kind of like a podcast within a podcast. Does that work? It's like one of those podcasts. Those dolls, those Russian dolls that open up the doll. Yeah. What are they called? Matrushka dolls, I think. No.

Speaker

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Ten points for you. There you go. I got to take you to Trivia tonight. Okay, thank you.

Speaker 4

But it's just like that. It's a podcast within a podcast, a doll within a doll. And we are kind of had an episode with Tim KV of Teachers on Fire, where he came on our podcast. It was a lot of fun having this guest in our house. Yeah, and it was we had to get ready for that.

Speaker

It was like uh, you know, a you know, having a guest come over to your house, except you were at your place and I was at my place. And you know, I had to, you know, really, I had to clean up uh the backdrop behind me at my place. The lighting looked good, right? The lighting was no longer were you dark I would I was shamed because uh what uh what our my very I think my very first riverside It was with the student teachers. Uh teenage boy in his basement hooked all the lights turned out, and all you can see is my face. And uh yes, and uh you referred to me uh sort of like Star Wars terms as a dark lord. It did. And so I wanted to change that.

Speaker 4

People were talking about your lighting. They were impressed just how good it was. So whoever you hired for lighting, keep them. That's right. Well done.

Speaker 2

Still alive.

Speaker 4

But you feel like that. When you're having a guest, you want everything to be perfect, right? It's like having a couple down the street and have them over for dinner. That's right.

Speaker

Clean the house, and then the kids complain why are we cleaning the house? I like the way the house is. I said, Well, I'm happy that we have company coming over because I'm not happy in the way the house is so I can clean it.

Speaker 4

But then you get to enjoy it. And then you wait. You wait and go, will they invite us? Were we gonna be invited? Were we worthy, right?

Speaker

Enough. Were we gonna be invited back? Uh we did everything we we possibly could, right?

Speaker 4

And we were invited back. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Tim had us on his podcast when he was on fire. So we are sandwiching that into today's episode. Okay.

Speaker

So I I uh uh in that podcast, I'm bringing a bottle of wine. Yeah? Yeah. Okay, that's kind of you.

Speaker 4

I'm gonna bring some some some whiskey. Oh, nice. All right. Yeah. But it's it's it's fun to kind of give you a chance to see this podcast we were on and uh get learn a little bit about Tim Cavey, hear about his podcast, meet him, and then may it might be another podcast for you to check out. Because I actually don't think you can have too many podcasts in the educational world. I think it just all provides a different perspective. And he does things differently, but I like the way he does things, and I think that complements what we're doing here. As long as we are your number one educational podcast. Of course, yeah. Someone else could be number two, that's fine. But and we went. We were just voted number one, right? We were we did. We were in a competition with 35 other podcasts from around the world and for the week on Pod Radar. Pod radar, which is a fun place where people can go and vote. Ours was in the uh entry for the top 35, and we finished number one. So there you go. So from our podcast to yours, let's go check out.

Speaker 3

An education podcast impact personal growth and professional practice. Is there still room for more education content creators today? And how do two veteran educators view today's educational landscape? Welcome back to another episode of the Teachers on Fire podcast, airing live on YouTube most Saturday mornings at 8 a.m. Pacific and 11 a.m. Eastern. I say most Saturday mornings. Today we're a little bit off of that schedule, but that's okay. My name is Tim Cavey, and my mission here is to warm your heart, spark your thinking, and ignite your professional practice. Today's Teachers on Fire are Martin Stuible and Roy Hunt, the hosts of the After the Bell podcast. Martin Stuible is deep into his third chapter of life with his creative company, Creative Moments on 11th. Roy Hunt is a geologist, world traveler, master teacher, and podcaster. To both of you, gentlemen, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Are you, my friends, ready to light it up? We are. I certainly am. Yeah. Thanks, Tim. It's great to be here. Well, thank you so much for joining me, guys, on this Saturday morning. On relatively short notice, I really appreciate it. It was a joy to come on your podcast after the bell a few weeks ago. And you've shared some of my a few clips from our conversation on different social media, and I am so honored by that. So thank you again for joining me. And now it's just an honor to reciprocate and share your views with my audience. So thank you so much, Martin and Roy. Let's jump right into it. I want to congratulate you on over a year and 60 episodes of the After the Bell podcast. Tell us your origin story. How did you get into podcasting, Martin?

Speaker 4

Well, I guess the origin story goes back to when Roy and I met. And Roy, why don't you jump in with the the day we met, which is 1996? Because it's 1996. If you allow us, Tim, to go right back because without that, without that day in 1996, I don't think we'd be doing this podcast. All right, please do.

Speaker

I uh I was a TOC. I had just come back from uh living four years in Japan and uh uh I got a position in North Vancouver and I was uh T T O C a substitute teacher um starting my career in on the North Shore and I was called into Lonsdale Elementary School and I walked into a classroom and at that time I had my tie on and I had my shirt. I was looking you know very professional, very professional, and I went right into Martin's class. And Martin was uh busy with another teacher doing uh some some work, so he was in the classroom and there was just an energy from Martin, and I I I I it it was weird because I thought I could be friends with this guy and I just met him.

Speaker 4

So now I think about that. Sorry, that's like is that 30 years ago? 30 years ago. Wow. Yeah, okay. Wow, thanks, Jim. They're making me feel old now.

Speaker

And and so uh that was just that one time in Martin's class and then uh fast forward uh I was the following year. The following year. I was called into a school, uh Dorothy Lynas Elementary School. Um I had finished the school year in that classroom, so they called me back the first day of school in September uh as as a a TOC, but I was looking for a continuing contract and across the hall is Martin Stuible.

Speaker 4

Yeah, I had a plus at Longsdale, and I was now teaching at Dorothy Lynas And that's where Roy and I really got to know each other, and we did team teaching together, we connected on many many areas, became very good friends, and eight years we were there together, and it was just just fantastic. And we kind of you know, it was it was the beginning of what we do now in terms of our interactions. And and Tim, we we even ended up like later on after we we left after eight years, because we we always thought it was good to go to different schools, but it was nothing, you know, we didn't have a falling out. Not at all. But we we we we we ended up doing some acting together as well in a local theater company and doing what are called pantos as well. And so we acted together on stage and kind of that and that's why I'm going back so far because that all began the seeds that grew to the podcast in terms of our interactions with each other. And we could we could we could ad lib together, we could improvise, we could do those things that you have to do in a podcast.

Speaker 3

Amazing. So you've got this this almost co-teaching or teaching very closely together for a number of years, and then the acting that's another level of trust and collaboration. So you formed this great teamwork. I I'm curious to hear. Now you asked me this, and I'd love to hear in reverse, what made you more recently decide, hey, let's start a podcast together? Where did that come from?

Speaker 4

Well, I think we had talked about it, right, right, Roy? A lot, you know, in the last few years of of uh of teaching. And and we in some ways we we wanted to go back to the the what we had at Dorothy Linus. That was our magic school, a magic place. The staff was amazing. And there was even an opening at a school nearby. We were thinking of going to teach just a few years ago, both teach grade seven classes, and we realized, you know what, we you can't recreate that. It's not it's it's like going home again, right? We can't do that again. But why don't we just you know go out for coffee and talk about things in the future because we knew we were both heading towards retirement. How about a podcast eventually?

Speaker

Right, right? Yeah, and I think what we we're as Martin was saying, we were trying to recreate that moment and and and we but we also agreed that that moment existed at a time in our lives uh that was different. So trying to recreate that exact moment in uh by you know, we were close to the the end of our career and we we were deciding to like Martin was saying, we were deciding that maybe we'd take these two grade seven positions, start all over again because we had been teaching uh uh in the the four or five arena and we looked at each other and said that's not really what we we want. We we want we want to move forward in in a in a direction that really takes all the skill sets that we've developed over our years uh as teachers and and and find the take the skills and take this friendship that we have and have it evolve into something that's really meaningful and purposeful. Uh so we came up with these two ideas. Uh as Martin said, we we discussed about a podcast. Uh we've talked about uh writing a script for um for a a two-person show.

Speaker 4

Uh the new version of the odd couple.

Speaker

Our version of the odd couple and uh the neat one. And in the end, uh we went camping and we sat down and we started uh working on um what we would think would be a podcast and uh that would connect with our skill set and and our values, and this is where we are.

Speaker 4

Because we were tired, Roy, wasn't it? Was it July 2024, right?

Speaker

Yes.

Speaker 4

And that September we went on a we took a week and went camping, and that's where we hashed it out. We jumped right into it right away. And I think to me that was the key. We had talked about this possible idea and we said, let's do it. And we jumped in and kind of hashed out the idea. And by January, uh we started to release our episodes.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

What a fantastic story. Thank you for sharing it, guys. So you retired, and I wanted to get to that part too, because I want to connect gentlemen with listeners out there who might be a little more advanced in their career, in their years, and maybe who feel like it is it too late for me to do something like this. But here are the two of you, both retired, one of you still in classrooms regularly as a substitute teacher, and you've got the fire for learning. And that's the brand, of course, of my podcast and what I'm all about is keeping that fire for learning going. So you're taking on this new adventure and you haven't left education in a very real sense. You still connect with educators, you're still serving educators, you're interested in the classroom, and I just admire that so much. So that's part of what I want to get into here. Uh, I want to explore this idea of content creation at your stage of the game, but also uh just looking at how the podcast has impacted you. So, again, congratulations on as it shows on the screen, over a year of the podcast running and over 60 episodes. Thank you. I'm sure you fellows are aware that a very high percentage of podcasts sort of flame out after 10 episodes. That's just statistically what happens is that people start with great exuberance and then they find, oh wow, it takes a lot of discipline and sacrifice to keep this going consistently. And so most don't make it. You guys have not missed a beat. Maybe it was that camping trip that really got you started with a firm foundation. I want to hear when you're in, how has it impacted your personal growth and your professional practice? Now, the professional practice, I realize we sort of have to put an asterisk beside because you're not on a full-time contract right now, either of you, but certainly the the personal growth and what you bring to the classroom if and when you are substitute teaching, I'm curious about both. Uh Roy, how would you say the podcast work over the last year has impacted you?

Speaker

Um, I think first of all, uh it's just giving me confidence in learning new things. Uh and I I love, again, I have have Martin as my uh good friend and mentor. And as a result of that, I've been able to move forward. I still have the what I love is be going into the schools, I have the lens of experience, and I also have the lens of of of the issues that uh from what we uh do and on our podcast of the issues that are coming up. When I go into a staff room, I kind of put my ear to the road and and I listen to some of the things that the teachers are discussing. And that's really given uh us a lot of fuel for our podcast because there I get to go into every different staff room and and and you know, when I when you walk into school, you can feel what's happening in the school, and when you walk into the staff room, you can feel uh how how the staff is working together and and listen to the conversations. And that I found it very rejuvenating. Uh it's it's caused me to um do some research in the areas that teachers have discussed, I've read uh read some books um that uh were inspired through through just listening. And I I think that's uh one of the things that's been very exciting is just just not seeing retirement as as an end, but as as a continuation uh of uh a path that's using the skill set that I've developed over the years uh of teaching and with my connection with Martin and adding something that other teachers and uh other uh our listeners uh are connecting to, saying, Wow, that resonates with me. And and that's that's the passion that comes out when when I hear people say, or just I hear people say, you have the greatest laugh in the podcast.

Speaker 3

So I think that was challenge issued, Martin. Challenge issued. No, I think we'll think a laugh track. Thank you, Roy. That is so inspiring. Uh Martin, what would you add to that in terms of your personal growth and maybe skills that you've developed that you bring to other work in other aspects of your life?

Speaker 4

Yeah, I mean the way Roy talks about it's not just the end. When you retire, uh I don't want did not want to think about that's just you know off the pasture now. Uh Jane Fonda always talks about the the third act of life right after you retire. And third acts in plays are often the best. They often are. And so I I I think the fact that we jumped into it right away was really important because I've always had a lot of that's why I call my company Creative Moments on 11th, because I have a lot of I I like to write, I like to do a lot of things. But I think if I hadn't done the podcast right away, it would have been a while that I would have taken to adjust to this, this new life.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 4

Jumping in the podcast right away made me go, oh, this is something new. It was a steep learning curve, but it made me excited, really excited about this chapter. And I felt I was taking on something brand new, but it was connected to what my career was, which was education. So it was safe in that way. It was safe to do it with Roy, who we have this great connection. But I really felt this is something new and I could be excited about what was coming.

unknown

Yeah.

Speaker 3

That is so great. And that's a hobby that keeps us growing, keeps us learning, keeps us engaging in life-giving conversations. And I hope for people listening, again, whatever age you're at, I'm here in my late 40s. We've got these two gentlemen who are on the other side of retirement. It's still not too late, I think, at least in my opinion. And that's my next question, fellows, is do you think there's still room in the pool for more K-12 education content creators like us? If so, what is one piece of advice that you would give them after a year of experience starting this thing up? Martin?

Speaker 4

Yeah, there there certainly is room. And I think, you know, everybody approaches things differently. And I think for teachers to hear different views, different ways of doing it, so that they can find their nugget, their person that kind of makes them go, oh, okay, this helps me in the classroom. It might not be us, it might not be you, it might be somebody else. And it I think the more the merrier. I don't think it's overcrowded right now. And I also encourage people, like if you are retiring, to find that thing. And maybe it's not a podcast, but a lot of people, their job is everything. And I love my teaching career. I was, I'm grateful to this very moment that I chose teaching as my career. But I was able to find this now and other things to move on to. And if the job is everything, I think retirement could be hard. And I really think people find develop those hobbies when you're younger too, whatever they are, right? Develop things that you love to do, that you know, okay, when when I stop teaching, what do I do now? I think for a lot of people, that's a scary thought, right? What do I do now? And they it makes them take a breath. So I think just work on that and think about it when you're young.

Speaker 3

So good. Roy, anything you would add to that in terms of advice for the the would-be creator out there?

Speaker

Well, I I agree that there's lots of room. Uh it's interesting. Teachers develop a skill set that's easily transferable outside of the classroom. And and as a result of that, you know, we've got teachers who have different lens on education. So I think what they bring is uh a variety of of approaches that that appeal to to different people. And this is mentorship in a way. I think that uh you can, if you love podcasts and you love listening to things, you can find people and you can you know while you're doing your marking, while you're doing your dishes, while you're driving home from school, you can you can have an opportunity to learn something or laugh or that's connected to teaching. And you you just can align it to a positive way uh to the a positive way. Uh I also think for those people who are building content, it's like building trust with your listeners, right? Listening to and listening to and reading the comments that you get from your listeners, and then using those as a stepping stone for maybe your next episode, or uh at least building comments, uh making comments on the comments that are that are positive. So building that trust, that's really important.

Speaker 3

Yeah, we don't, as small education content creators, we don't get a ton of comments, at least that's typical, but we do get some. And they show up once in a while on YouTube or Spotify. That's where I see my comments. You I'm sure other platforms for you fellows. I want to shout out JP in Shenzhen. Uh, I don't know him beyond his YouTube handle. I haven't done a deep dive on who he is, but thank you, JP, for tuning in and leaving some comments lately on YouTube, some of them a little critical but engaging. And I can tell he's he's been uh following the content, and that means so much. It even just to have a handful of listeners. You know, I'll say for my audience out there, we see as the content creators, we see hundreds, sometimes in the thousands of downloads or views on different platforms, usually not that high, at least uh at my stage of the game, but usually in the low hundreds. And I will say that we don't often hear directly from many listeners. So I I can tell you that my podcast has been downloaded in virtually every country of the world, but in most of those places, I haven't had a whole lot of engagement. So it's like the invisible audience. So anytime, anytime a listener takes the time to leave a comment. Now you can do that on Spotify. I don't think you can do that on Apple Podcasts or other platforms, but you can there. And on YouTube or LinkedIn, it means the world to us. It really does.

Speaker 4

And uh yeah, and it's part of that. That mentorship that Roy talked about. I think both Roy and I have had a lot of student teachers over the years. We really like playing that role of being mentors, and I feel this is kind of continuing that on and being that being that person who's now, you know, at the end of his career who can, I think, offer something. You know, it might not be the thing, but some perspective that you don't have when you're younger.

Speaker

Uh yeah. I just wanted to add about comments. Uh, some of the comments that warm my heart the most. Uh, we've d we've done some TikTok videos to to put traffic towards our our uh uh uh website. And I remember putting something, uh Martin and I putting something out there um in the evening, and in the morning I saw that there were about a hundred responses. Wow. So I go, whoa, wow. And I I looked and half of them were grade seven students from an elementary school. But you know, uh they they're from the elementary school that I retired from, but they were so positive and uh I know that there are students that I know who are on social media, and I never thought of myself as someone who's who's modeling the use of social media. And then all of a sudden I have these students who who made these responses, but oh my gosh, it just filled my heart. There you go.

Speaker 3

Well, and that's something else, whoops, and that's something else too that I want my audience to know is that these two gentlemen have really engaged, they've bought completely into the content creation mission, and they are sharing their content on platforms like TikTok. Yes. And so I hope that inspires some out there perhaps that are a little bit wary who are saying, Oh, that you know, this is a territory that is not for me. Um, these two gentlemen are going where perhaps others fear to tread and they're doing a great job of it. So thank you so much. I want to thank my listeners on that note. If you're finding value here, go ahead and give the video a like on YouTube, LinkedIn, or wherever you are tuning in today. That means the world to me and it helps the podcast continue to grow and be heard by more listeners around the world. Gentlemen, we've all seen the effects of teacher burnout, and I want to put some questions to you. As educators with a lot of experience, combined experience behind you. I wonder, do you have one practical habit of self-compassion that you would recommend for overwhelmed educators, maybe those a little on the younger side or a little bit newer to the profession? Roy, is there something that comes to mind?

Speaker

Well, I had a hard time uh, well, I have a hard time thinking of just one. Uh and I'd like to use um uh we had an interview with uh Lisa Bayliss, and uh we were talking about self-compassion. And one of the uh three of the things that she mentioned in our episode that really connected with me was one is uh practicing self-kindness, you know, talking to yourself like you would talk to a loved one. Often oftentimes as teachers, we beat ourselves up. We go into, oh, why did you do that? But you know, we show compassion to the students in our class. So why aren't we, you know, we need to show compassion to ourselves. Uh the second thing is practicing mindfulness, right? Being aware of of the things that are going on with your body. Uh, everybody has a different way of doing. You can practice mindfulness running, you can practice mindfulness uh making a cup of coffee. You know, the grinding of the beans, the smell of the coffee, the bubbling of the water. That's that's a that's a moment where you can find some calm. Just making coffee. And I think the the last one, uh the the third one is uh finding common humanity. We're not in this alone. Oftentimes we struggle, uh uh and we think I'm the only person who feels this way, or I'm the only person who has this problem. It's not. And so when you find that that common thread of humanity and that you're not the only one, uh I remember a line that really connected with me uh that Lisa Bayless said was life is messy, right? And uh it it and it's not easy. And just to know that you know there's other people who think the same way. It is messy, it's not easy. And then then you can move forward. So those are the three things that I would bring when you ask for one. Martin, how about you?

Speaker 4

What would you add to that? Typical Roy. But to build on that, I I think of another guest we had, Dr. Misty Patterson, and she kind of we got onto the idea of the importance of the staff room again and connecting with people, and we've lost that along the way. I know when I started teaching in the 90s, you know, the recess lunch staff room place was a place where you had a good laugh. Someone might make soup, right, that you share with everyone. What I found later on in my career, people were staying in their classrooms a lot more. They weren't going to that staff room. And if they went to that staff room, it would be just to complain and vent, which is fine a little bit. But I want people to kind of recapture that moment where the staff room was just, you know, in the 90s would have been, did you see Seinfeld last night, right? Now we can share other things, right? That would have yeah. But find that, you know, make soup again, have a soup day, whatever it is, connect with someone, find that person on staff that you can uh go through this challenging job, but who understands what it looks like through your eyes and realize you're not alone. And so if we could reinvent the staff room as a place of celebration and joy again, that's what I would say to help with self-compass.

Speaker 3

Well said. Love that so much. I want to go to two more questions, gentlemen. Both of them relate to technology. So we'll go to a bigger question here in a moment. But first, zooming in on AI, it's everywhere. I don't have to tell you about that. It we're hearing it in almost every conversation, hearing about it in almost every conversation. I I could narrow this question, but I thought I'd leave it wide open. When you think about AI in education, what comes to mind right now? What's your sense of where things are going and how do you see it impacting learning for students in British Columbia and around the world, Martin?

Speaker 4

I think we need to be careful this time on AI. I I like technology. You know, I I I've embraced it as a tool. I think I I when I did my first uh movies in class, I would we would I would do it on the old analog machines where reel-to-reel tape it and stuff. And then when Apple came along with a good avid pro digital editing program, I got onto that. So I've always jumped onto these things and I love it when it becomes a tool that you can further the learning in the classroom. Right. But cell phones have shown what happened in terms of when a tool comes along and we don't just slow down and calm and think about how to use it properly. Agreed. And we just made no look how long it took. You know, look at the the the lawsuit with Facebook uh the other day, right? Where they it's now found out that they have created algorithms that were targeting kids to stay on there, you know, even to the point one of the things that came out in the lawsuit was that they knew girls between 13 and 17, when when they deleted their selfie, Facebook knew that meant they didn't like the way they looked. So Facebook sold that information to cosmetic companies so those cosmetic companies could then target those girls, right? So that AI just brings it to a whole other level, right? You know, and I I I'm not saying AI is bad. It can be a valuable tool that could help further humanity in many ways. But in the classroom, let's just slow down. Let's slow down. Why do we have to mirror the marketplace out there? Andrew Cantorudy talks about that, the marketplace mirror, right? And how we feel we have to match, we got to keep up with that. Well, the marketplace is changing all the time. We just need kids to be creative thinkers, to connect with their world, to be social compassionate beings. And I think if we jump on AI too quickly, we're gonna have a conversation in 10 years where Jonathan Hayde will write the book about what now we have. It's beyond the Angus generation, right? Who knows what his title will be?

Speaker 3

So that's that's that's my worry. Yeah. Roy, what would you add to that in the context specifically of AI?

Speaker

Well, um, you know, it's funny, I I read an article about uh about alpha schools um starting up in the United States. There's about 50 of them. Uh they they are private schools that are starting with uh AI, two hours of AI for each student. The experience that the student has is catered to their interests, and uh it so they have two hours of AI instruction, and then the rest of the day is working on uh social, emotional skills, um uh physical activity and such. And so it's being embraced already as a part of education. Um my feeling is and and there's a lot of discussion about it for for myself, I I didn't grow up with technology, uh it wasn't much. And and so I I grew up with books and I grew up with art and I grew up with uh being outside in the outdoors. And so when I do use technology, my lens is I know how to shut it off. I I know uh I know what I want to say, and so I can I can write out my ideas first, and then I can get it um put something into AI and get it to come back. And it makes me look better. It makes me sound better in ways, or in a different way, or I can approach it from a different way. If it's I guess it's it's kind of like driving a car. I know how to drive a car. If I get a new car, I can get in the car and I can drive it, I know where the brakes are and everything like that. But what we're doing is we're putting kids in cars. Right? Without an instruction manual, they they don't have driving lessons, uh they don't understand the the the how driving is different depending on weather, how um or road conditions. So they don't have that lens of being able to to pivot or do things. So we have the responsibility as educators to give them the instruction manual, to give them the instructions, to get let them test out their ideas first before we introduce AI. Um I think you students should be brainstorming just on paper. And if if it's about a movie they saw or a book that they read and nothing else, that's where they're at. And and so I think it it it's about creating um interpersonal skills, uh debate, discussion, um, the idea that I might not agree with you, you might not agree with me. But we're we're giving them a skill set, we're building attention, we're we're building uh there there maybe there is conflict uh uh in that, but I can see your view of things. And then we can add AI. Or we can we can add it in a way that's a taste, and then build on that taste each time instead of you know full immersion.

Speaker 3

Want to say hello to Mark Ryan over at Gems Academy in Gems World Academy. Mark, you can correct me if I'm getting the title of the school wrong, but he's over in Abu Dhabi right now in the UAE, and I believe, I believe, based on uh what's going on over there right now, he's actually in into some remote learning. So our thoughts and prayers are with you and your community, Mark, praying for uh uh safety and and uh and just the continuation of learning. I know you were mentioning on LinkedIn it's a little bit of a throwback to uh the the old COVID times. None of us like to think back to those days too quickly, but uh yeah, hope hopefully uh things are progressing smoothly there. And certainly we've built up, speaking of technology, we've built up this foundation of everyone knows how to how this works, right? We all know, we all have the skills and tools that we need. Last questionnaire, fellows. I'm curious about this one. So it's related to this area of technology, not so much about AI, but over the break, as I sat there in The Empress in Victoria, beautiful Victoria, I started getting a little deeper into the digital delusion with uh Jared Cooney Horvath. And wow, he really attacks uh, well, attacks. He may not like me using that word, but he really critiques the advent of technology and talks about how across North America and Western education systems, we've seen a big decline in learning outcomes over the last 20 years. And he links it with the advent of screens in classrooms, particularly screens in front of students, whether it's iPads or laptops, Chromebooks, et cetera. And I am like you, Martin, you said you you've enjoyed technology in the classroom, Roy. I assume you have to an extent as well. I've I've generally embraced tools. As long as they support the learning target, I've been quite open and embracing an embracing posture toward technology over the years, but he really does challenge my thinking. And I know there's a growing conversation out there in social media right now about hey, do we need have we been betrayed almost? That's sometimes the language you hear. Have we been betrayed by EdTech? Do we need to sort of roll it all back? So it's just a really interesting conversation going on. And I'm wondering for another couple of veteran educators who grew up with line paper and binders in the classroom, uh DA, does does part of that thesis appeal to you? Do you do you, based on everything you've seen and experienced, do you think there's some virtue in those arguments? I'm so curious to hear what you think. Roy, uh, what about this line that technology has really contributed to a decline in learning? And should we go back to analog classrooms?

Speaker

Um, that's a great question. I I don't think that technology is is really built for the human brain. Uh it it fragments the attention, uh it it it encourages us to do multitasking. So we're doing three or four different things uh less well. And and uh it it's there's not the opportunity for processing. Uh I I one of the catchphrases that that I heard a while back uh that was connected to um student learning was called deep learning. How do you have deep sustained learning? And and and that's not with fragmented attention, it's prolonged attention. It's it's reading a novel for a period of time. And it's thinking about something deeply and coming up with possibilities. So I have Martin and I have had a discussion many times about going back to what we would call the analog classroom. Um in fact, we discussed uh writing something about it, but what would that be? It would be cursive writing, right? It would be paper, it would be uh brainstorming together as a group of students, uh sharing our ideas and um reading uh uh directed instruction and building in repetition. And I think all what that does is is it it helps us to help our students to get prolonged attention and then as as teachers it's up to us to say how did that feel? You you were you you you had just you did art for 10 minutes without any interruption. Think of your how did your body feel? Like what what process were you going through? Would you like to do that again?

unknown

Right?

Speaker

And if they say no, that's okay. But if they say yes, then it's up to us to to help them to to think about how they're you know, what was my heart rate, what was my breathing, how did I feel and and then bring that to light and then help them to recreate that experience again. It's building, right? You we can't we can't just say, okay, no technology at all. It's not gonna go well. But how do we provide alternative experiences and on top of all of the other things that I just talked about, get the kids outside, get outdoor experiences, find the calm, find find the joy in just breathing.

Speaker 3

I want to throw it to Martin next, but just on that topic of building, I think you're so right on because our friend Andrew Cantarudi, we were talking about him off air, would say that hey, attention, building the skill and the muscle of attention really should be an intentional part of our curriculum right now. And so it's an incremental journey and there will be some discomfort. It's just like going to the gym and lifting weights. There will be some discomfort along the way. But this is if we think of attention, student attention as a muscle, then maybe we do need to push students into a little bit a little bit more discomfort. And I I think you're talking about the reflective process. That's such an important part of the journey. Martin, same question, the analog classroom. What are your thoughts?

Speaker 4

I mean, I I find as I age and as I've read more about Cooney Horbath, uh, Andrew Cantarudi, Jonathan Hayde, I am becoming more and more anti-technology in terms of seeing what's happening. I I I want kids to get outside because I've I saw that in my last two years where like on Thursdays, we'd go outside and be math outside. We would do all kinds of activities. You know, you could do everything outside. And the difference in them, and we would, you know, debrief afterwards, the way they discuss their brain, I start to realize I don't think we're doing a service by embracing technology all the time. Like like Royce says, I'm not saying cold turkey, right? We can't do that. There are many tools. We all need technology, we have to get around, right? We have to use it in certain ways in our modern world. But what kids are not getting at home is the outside world. They're no, they're no longer getting that. What they're getting are screens. They're getting that technology already. And then I discovered when you talk about Andrew Cantarudi, he talks about the idea that attention can be learned. It can be. We can teach it. We all we we often think, well, kids can only think for three minutes, so let's give them three minutes of time. That's all they can. Let's gamify this and give them three minutes. That's all they can take. I used to do these uh Zen Tangles with my last class when I was at uh just before I retired. And they they take a lot of concentration. And sometimes we would do these for an hour, Tim. An hour where they would focus and concentrate. At first, they couldn't do it for an hour, they could do it for five minutes before they just said, I can't take this anymore, right? But eventually they'd want to do it. It wouldn't go past the hour. They were so focused. And then I would say, How do you feel?

unknown

Yeah.

Speaker 4

And they'd say, Mr. Stuible, my brain, it feels calm.

unknown

Yeah.

Speaker 4

I didn't know it could feel this way. You know, and not all. Some would say, I like noise. This is just annoying. I mean, right? There's always going to be those few. But overall, the effect that I saw it have on them, on their day, on their thinking, and on their learning was dramatic. And that made me start to drift towards this more, I don't want to say anti-technology, but I've certainly drifted in my path on how I view it. And I think if it's a tool and it's helping to further learning and further cognitive development, then it's okay. But if it's replacing cognitive development and replacing your brain's need to do the work, the messy work, then it's not okay. Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Well said, gentlemen. There's so much there. And I feel like we've just scratched the service, but you've definitely made some of the biggest points I think that educators listening need to consider. Well, thank you for your comments and feedback. As I said earlier, dear listener, your comments and feedback on all of our work, whether it's Teachers on Fire or After the Bell, is such an encouragement to us as creators. So wherever you are tuning in from around the world, whether it's in Abu Dhabi and the UAE or right here at home. And speaking of home, I wanted to mention these two educators were just talking about getting students outside. I will say, guys, in fairness, you both operate and you've taught in some of the most beautiful landscape in all of North America in terms of major cities. And your students have do have those opportunities quite close by to get out into the rainforest and walk trails under towering trees close to close to canyons and oceans and mountains. So it's certainly wonderful. Vancouver educators, you have no excuse. Okay. That's what we're saying to you today. Uh, gentlemen, as we wrap up here, what are the best ways for the teachers on fire listening to connect with you and learn more about your work? Uh Martin, where should they head for that?

Speaker 4

They can go to our website, which is stuntbrothers.ca, stuntbrothers.ca, and they can find us on all the podcast streaming places that you can name. We'll we're there. Just if you if you search for um after the bell, stunt brothers, you it will come up. So after the bell, stunt brothers, do a search, our podcast will be there. Or go to stuntbrothers.ca.

Speaker 3

And as help me understand now, I'm probably slow, but oh, it's just hitting me now. Stunt. Stunt is a combination of your last names. We should have said that at the beginning. Yeah, yes, yeah. Stubel and hunt. Yes. Yeah. Oh. I was like, I was like going into this conversation. I love this. I can see it in your face. I was like going into this conversation today, I'm like, I still don't really get the stunt brothers. Who are the stunt brothers? Where does that name go? They do some really impressive stunts. Okay. Stuible and Hunt, of course. Oh, well, I'm glad.

Speaker 4

And that goes back, sorry, Tim, that goes back like 20 years because when our kids were small and my kids don't have any cousins, right? So they don't have any cousins. So we were going camping together at somewhere, I forget where, but we were going camping with two families. And uh yeah, and we said, let's have a stunt brothers a stunt family reunion. Right? So I I created cousins for my kids is what I was doing. That's how the stunt name was formed.

Speaker 3

Uh well, I'm glad I thought of that question, guys, because coming into this or just thinking about this conversation last night, I was like, I need to resolve this. So we've just answered that. That another major victory, another major achievement from this conversation. Gentlemen, thank you again for sharing your time with the podcast today. Even though you are on the other side of retirement, many of my listeners will be a little envious, I'm sure. Uh, it's still a sacrifice of your time and energy to join me on a live stream on a Saturday. So thank you so much. It's been really enjoyable. And I know it's been the same for my audience as well. Teachers on Fire, I'm your host, Tim Cavey, and I'm so grateful that you too decided to spend some of your day listening to this episode, whether it was joining us live or at some point in the week on the replay. I hope that in some way the content you heard today from Martin Stubel and Roy Hunt of the After the Bell Podcast sparked your thinking and ignited your practice. And I'll meet you next week right here on the Teachers on Fire podcast. Take care, everyone, and have a great week. Bye-bye.

Speaker 4

So there we were on Teachers on Fire and explaining how the name stunt came about. It was kind of fun to see it in Tim's face, the realization that Stuible and Hunt put them together, you get the word Stunt.

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker

It was like he had that burning question. It was going to come, and then I was like, oh, I got it.

Speaker 4

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But uh it was fun being a guest on um his podcast. Right. Took away the pressure a little bit. It's different. It's different pressure, I guess. But it's nice just to let him ask us questions for the change.

Speaker

You know, it it's funny because people build podcasts and then they they try to find guests. And uh I think that's one challenge, right? Trying to get the guests that you want. But you're on a podcast because you are hosting the podcast. But how many podcasters get to be asked to be on another podcaster's podcast? And and it's uh it was. It was great to be uh a guest. I've really enjoyed seeing Tim uh in the sense of just the way he runs his podcast. I know I learned things uh just from watching the way he organized things, the way he's very professional. Not that we are we're not professional, we are professionals. We are professionals. But it was just nice to see a different way of organizing, a different way of organization. And and so I learned uh from being on his podcast.

Speaker 4

And I really encourage listeners to check out Teachers on Fire. He has many, many great guests on, and I don't think there could be too many educational podcasts. I think it's just the more voices we have, the better. That's right. And I think uh I think uh he he certainly got his house ready for us, right? Yes, he did. We were well prepared, and and now we've invited each other, and I think this will be an ongoing relationship and uh it'd be fun to we talked about maybe getting together in the summer, like in person with Tim. Yes. And uh meeting with other podcasters.

Speaker

Well, uh and you know we had a celebration at the end of our first uh first year of podcast at our first season, and I know that I would like to have a second season celebration, and I would love to invite some of our guests, and uh I would love to invite Tim. Yeah.

Speaker 4

So our favorite brewery. Yes, that's a problem I can handle. And a lot in the last week we've had listeners like even some of the few countries we hadn't heard from are suddenly popping up on our downloads. So we are we are taking over this planet. Yes. One download at a time three. That's all it takes. But thank you, listeners. Thanks for learning a little bit about us because to us, you are the guests in our podcast, right? We invite you into our discussion where we, you know, talk about things, talk about retirement, talk about education, and show that we can all do our little bit to try to make the world a better place. One little, one little podcast at a time, one episode at a time. So at a time. How do we do this together? How do we make each other healthier? And I just enjoy being part of that journey and having you, the listener, part of that journey. So feel free to keep on listening, keep on sharing with others, and tell people to go to stuntbrothers.ca. That's stuntbrothers.ca. We'll see you next time. Stay healthy, happy, and fit. Take bye-bye. This podcast is organic, taking shape with each episode.

Speaker 1

Hmm.

Speaker 4

Building resiliency for teachers everywhere.

Speaker 1

That sounds great.

Speaker 4

And our website is stuntbrothers.ca.

Speaker 1

That's stuntbrothers.ca.

Speaker 4

We will chat again after the bell.

Head Shot

The Stunt Brothers

Host