Stunt Brothers Go International

In Episode 73 of After The Bell, The Stunt Brothers celebrate the coming summer break by going international. Most teachers never get the chance to see how living abroad transforms their perspective—and their life. So Roy and Martin sit down with two veteran educators who know exactly what it means to work overseas. Greg Lemoine and Jacqueline Mallais, hosts of the International Teachers Podcast (ITP), have decades of international teaching to share with our listeners. Uncover surprising cultural nuances, hilarious miscommunications, and profound lessons that only come from stepping outside the comfort zone. From language mishaps in Cambodia to teaching respect in Japan, today's episode reveals the hidden joys—and challenges—of life as global educators. Understanding the nuances of international education unlocks opportunities for growth, resilience, and cultural connection. Whether you're contemplating your first overseas gig or a seasoned veteran, these stories underscore that teaching abroad isn’t just a career—it's a life-changing adventure with stories only the world can tell. Season 2 Episode 43 is the perfect podcast episode for teachers, expats, and education enthusiasts eager to explore the world through a classroom lens. The listener will leave inspired to embrace the global teacher within.
Learn more at stuntbrothers.ca

Further Resources:

• International Teachers Podcast 
• JPMint Consulting: Your First Step To Teach Internationally

 Key  Topics:

• Cultural differences in respect and classroom management
• Language learning and cultural adaptation
• Challenges and rewards of international teaching
• Finding the humour in teaching

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

So here we are, episode 73.

unknown 0:03

Right.

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Nice sound to it, eh? Yes, 73. That would mean that it's a season two, episode 43. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 0:11

Just moving along. Right? I know.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

It is crazy.

SPEAKER_04 0:15

Yeah. And you're still in the class, so you're still going at it. But you're dealing with kids and staffs.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Oh, I f I feel it. You know, it it's funny, you walk into a room and uh it's like everybody's battle weary, everybody's exhausted, everybody's kind of clawing on to the last piece of furniture that they can. And I walk in and go,

STS With The Stunt Brothers

SPEAKER_02 0:40

hey, how's it going? And they're like, oh. We have to bring him down to us. Yeah. But I won't let them bring me down to them. I would bring them up to me. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Wow, impressive.

SPEAKER_04 0:53

Yes. And they need it. Because in some ways, right? But in some ways, I think it's like a it starts a month earlier, that exhaustion, which says something about the system nowadays. I think Jugan would come and you go, okay. But now I think it's May 1st and people are going, these kids are done, right? Yeah. So I mean we've we've spent many an episode talking about attention, other factors going on, and I won't go into it now, but I think that has added to the exhaustion people feel. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Layers and layers of things going on right now, and and especially with you know teachers feeling uh that, you know, finding out that they're moving, uh students uh knowing that this is the last time they'll be in this maybe in this classroom. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

And then all the other things and they're tired and yes, it's uh but I know some are excited about summer because summer sometimes means a bit of a break, even though teachers think about it all summer long. But some of them do get a chance to go on some international trips. Yes. Right? To get out of the province, out of the country, and just to kind of see the world and do things that are pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Aaron Ross Powell Well, uh your son is on an international trip right on the street.

SPEAKER_04 2:03

I just got it. He was in Germany. He he's actually going to go see the uh the city Stuttgart, which is where his grandfather was from. My father, so that's neat. He's making a connection to there. And then he's been in Croatia with his girlfriend, because they're actually going to a destination wedding. Yeah. In Croatia, in a in a in an island in the Adriatic. So pretty neat.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Trevor Burrus, Jr. I happen to be go going to a destination wedding in September. My niece is getting married in Scotland.

SPEAKER_04 2:32

What about the podcast, man?

SPEAKER_02 2:33

What? I haven't told you this yet. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 2:36

Do you have a replacement?

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Surprise. Yes, I will bring in a replacement. It's cardboard.

SPEAKER_04 2:44

It does have a cardboard cutout.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

It has a little laugh track that goes with it. That's all we need.

SPEAKER_04 2:49

You just press him and he goes like, oh, that's all that's all we'll need. And people people will not notice the difference.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Yeah. So that uh my wife and I are are going uh for the wedding in the second week of September. Oh wow. Uh so we're hoping to spend some time in Scotland and then go to the wedding. And then after the wedding, uh we're gonna fly to or I guess we'll take a train to Amsterdam.

SPEAKER_04 3:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

And then we're going to go on a bike and barge trip.

SPEAKER_04 3:18

Aaron Powell Nice.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 3:19

And I always love the story like with you and your wife, because you you met, you know, you're both from Canada.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

You from Ontario. She's from Saskatchewan. Yes, right. And you met in Japan, right? Yes, we did. Like you were both international teachers at that time, right? In Japan. Like I just love that.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Aaron Ross Powell Well and and it's interesting because uh the the reason why I ended up ended up in Japan uh was because when I uh finished teachers college, uh I go, Yes, I can teach. And there were no jobs. Yeah. I'm in Ontario, it was hard to find anything. Yeah. And I just happened to pick up uh the Toronto Star and it said, Teach English in Japan. And I I I looked at myself in the mirror and said, Hey, you speak English.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

And so go to Japan.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

And I'm a teacher. And so uh I did. And my one year because actually I ended up in Japan, but uh I was going to job fairs trying to find a job to teach, and there were a lot of international uh positions available. Uh a lot of them at the time uh were in South America and uh a lot in uh Colombia.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

And uh it was interesting because it uh I remember the interview well where the the uh the the teacher who was from Colombia or the the hiring representative said, yes, we spend a lot of time together. Uh when we go for drives, we're always all together in a van.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

And when we're uh when we're in our sleeping quarters, it's a it's a compound and we're always together. And I go, ooh, uh it doesn't sound like a whole lot of freedom there. What if you don't like each other? Yeah. But instead I ended up going to Japan and uh my one-year uh plan went into four years in Japan. And I loved uh loved the Japanese people, I loved everything about it. And I met the love of my life.

SPEAKER_04 5:14

Think of the doors that opened up, right? That's the thing about moments like that. Like you you met Lori there, you got some teaching done, and then you all she actually connected to North Van, and then it ended up teaching in North Van. So that's that's amazing. That's the joy of that.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Where I was in Japan was North Vancouver's sister city. Yeah. Which I had no idea. So when I when I went to the board office and uh I said, Oh, I was in Chiba City, Japan, and they said, Oh, our sister city.

SPEAKER_04 5:40

Oh, well, I don't have the experience teaching internationally. I do have a friend who taught in uh South Korea and often said I should even in the summer, he said you got to come and teach there. He was there for many years. And then my brother was an international teacher for many years, you know, in Indonesia, in uh Taiwan, and then his last was in Saudi Arabia.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_04 5:58

Which is just like a guest that we're gonna have on today.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Aaron Ross Powell That's right.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

Because last week we talked about some of the podcasts, some of the educational podcasts we had heard, and one of them was the International Teachers Podcast, which is a really neat uh collection of people from different parts of the world who are all just so into the international teaching. And for them, it's a career. You know, some people do it. I mean, you were there for four years, that's a pretty long stint, right? Yes. But then you came back and joined the public system here in Canada. But some people that that's what they do. Yeah. And and work in so many different places. And the two of them, there's Jacqueline who's gonna come on along with Greg. And uh they have taught in so many places around the world, and their podcast is just fascinating. And uh we're actually gonna be on their podcast coming up, right? And so we've had them. We grabbed them first, and they're on our podcast. And this episode is about talking to someone, we're talking to Greg in Saudi Arabia, and then Jacqueline is in Mexico. So that's kind of cool. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

That would be great. And you know, it's for people that uh maybe you're looking for a career change. Uh retired teachers go uh teach internationally. And if you're a young teacher but not wanting to uh get slotted into a teaching position for a long period of time. Highly recommend it. Um it's a great opportunity. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 7:17

Yeah. And it's like teaching is such a transferable skill around the world. So it's one of those few professions you can have. And you can if you love to travel, you love those experiences, you can do it anywhere in the world. Yes, you can. So Greg and Jacqueline coming on and we're gonna chat and talk about their experiences here on After the Bell. So let's go to two places, Saudi Arabia and Mexico. And two can uh there'll be actually Greg's the only one, he's American. Okay. So there'll be uh three of us because Jacqueline from Ottawa originally. Oh, so it's three Canadians, three Canucks, one American. Outnumbered and surrounded. Let's have some fun.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Today on After the Bell, the Stunt brothers are going international. Uh why just visit one country when we have the opportunity to visit two countries. Uh we're so we're off to Saudi Arabia and Mexico to go with two members of the International Teachers Podcast, Greg Lemoyne and uh Jacqueline Malays.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Yay!

SPEAKER_04 8:19

Hello, Jaclyn is a former school leader with over 20 years' experience across four continents. She is the owner of JP Mint Consulting, which offers a wide range of services to those looking to save time, wanting to take their next step in international schools.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

Greg has been teaching overseas for the past 25

Greg and Jacqueline from the International Teachers Podcast (ITP)

SPEAKER_02 8:36

years in so many diverse places, including Kuwait, Venezuela, Colombia, and Egypt. He is also the co-founder of the International Teachers Podcast and the author of several books.

SPEAKER_04 8:47

Greg and Jacqueline, let's have some fun. Welcome to After the Bell.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Woo-hoo! Okay, great to see you guys. I should have got a bell.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Yeah, that would have been good. A bell for After the Bell.

SPEAKER_04 8:59

In three countries. I love this. I love this.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

So we are going to start with ABC. Uh, I will do the ABC. Martin will do one, two, three. Uh, there is no wrong answer, but when anyone tells you that there is no wrong answer, then you pe people freak out.

unknown 9:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

So I'll start with Jacqueline and then Greg, you can answer your later. Okay. A teaching in a country where you speak the language fluently, or teaching in a country where you're still learning the language.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Uh so I need to name a country.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Um, what would you prefer?

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Oh, oh, I okay. I was racking my brain. Uh, what would I prefer? Uh the second one, the teaching and learning the language.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

Teaching and learning the language. Greg? A. Okay. A. You you yeah, and where you could speak the language fluently. And is there a specific reason why? I've failed at Arabic.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

I've been here for like 12 years. I failed Arabic, but I I loved my life in countries that spoke I spoke Spanish and I absolutely thrived. And I think it was because I was learning that language, maybe, but I my choice is a definitely life improves so much if you speak the language. You don't have to, but it is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

And and so, and Jacqueline, you and you enjoy uh learning languages?

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Yes. Uh so that's kind of my hobby. I move to a country, or if I know ahead of time I'm moving somewhere, I'll pick up the language first and then uh land with my feet on the ground and I'm running with taxi driver conversations the next day. So I've I've picked up seven along the way.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Wow. I've picked up about 15, but I'm learning 14. I speak English.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

Okay. Uh Greg, uh, eating like a local or eating like a tourist?

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Local all the way. Are you kidding me? Oh my God. Eat the red ants in Cambodia, eat the spiders, the uh the the cow tongue in Venezuela. Absolutely try it. You don't have to like it. It's a good story. Okay. All right, Jacqueline?

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Well, given those examples, I'll do the opposite. Eating like a tourist. All right. Simply because I am not the most adventurous eater. I will try a delicacy if it's within my wheelhouse of non-organ meats, nothing that can eat me, kind of thing. So um, you know, like those like tentacles stuck on your tongues, you know, that kind of thing. No. So I just eat like a tourist.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Okay. Uh all right. Uh Jacqueline, this one's for you. See, living like a local or living in an expat community.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Definitely living like a local uh at all times, if possible. But I mean, there are times where living in a bubble is the survival instinct. You know, you just want to uh have something familiar because everything outside is so unfamiliar. So I'm thinking like when I was in in China, I was in a um not an expat bubble necessarily, but living in an apartment building filled with Chinese. But my house was a bubble. Um, but right now in Mexico, definitely living like a local, I do not want to see expats every day. I want to, you know, converse with the locals and and have Mexican friends and neighbors.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

And Greg, I'm taking the other side of this. I need to live like an expat, but then I can choose to go into areas and make friends and and you know, go way into the culture and have a great time. But I can't give up my West some of the Western things that I need. Like I need to sit down when I go to the bathroom. I mean, I don't want to live local every time place I've been, right? I can't do it. I like choices. I'm an American. I like the choice of when and where I can do things.

SPEAKER_04 12:48

Okay. All right. Here we go. Um Martin. One, two, three. So, Greg, what is one item from from your home country that you must take with you? Three.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Oh, wait. Um one item or three? You can do three. Are there three items? Ice, a maid, and some form of transportation that I own or a car, for example, or moped. Okay. Jacqueline.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

What do I take from home? So uh for the last 15 years, I have a um national Canada national team hockey jersey with my last name on it. It was my father's. And I took it out of his closet and said, Dad, I'm gonna borrow this for a couple years, and then he never saw it again.

SPEAKER_04 13:29

So oh, fantastic. And for number two, Jacqueline, if you think back to your own childhood in elementary school or high school, is there a favorite teacher that stands out that made a significant difference in your life?

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Yes. And actually, I called her after I became a teacher myself. So she was my grade eight teacher, Madame O'Malley, um, grade eight geography and French teacher. So I was in the French immersion program in Ottawa. And uh she instilled like a lot of um uh discipline in our class. And, you know, as a grade eight class, we were kind of out of control as it was. And she just she treated us like humans rather than students and and really sort of lit that uh teaching bug in me. So I called her after I got my um teaching license and went overseas for a little bit and came home, uh, called her and and thanked her. And she, you know, we were both bawling on the on the emotional moment, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:22

Yeah, yeah. And Greg, do you have somebody who stands out?

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Oh, yeah, I get two though. I'm gonna take uh I'll take third grade teacher, Mrs. Spratt, for 200. Um, she was my she was just amazing. She's the one that read to us every single day. And then we had like we all were taking a nap and we could listen to her story. She read the full Lord of the Rings to us, like third grade. That's back like a hundred years ago. Uh second answer would be Don Hones, is a university professor for ESL, ELL, whatever you want to call it these days. But he's the one that really taught me to embrace other cultures, even within our own. So we were working a lot with Hmong culture and Latino cultures when I was training to become a teacher. So that lasted a lot. I still keep in touch with them and fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 15:06

Oh good. Number three, teaching internationally means you're away from home, friends, and family. Jacqueline, do you have a song that reminds you of home? That reminds you of Canada? Something some song that I don't have any particular song.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

I have I have a Canadian playlist that I frequently put on. So a lot of like the 90s, because I university, the I listened to a lot of Canadian music in the 90s. My colleague, uh college roommates, or you know, the university floor would listen to almost exclusively Canadian music. So that always brings me back to that era.

unknown 15:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Greg, do you have any song that reminds you of America? Yeah, I don't think anybody on my floor ever listened to Canadian music that we knew of.

SPEAKER_04 15:58

Um sorry, I have to throw a couple jokes in. Canadian music? I can't remember. I I'm sure they're not.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

I have a song that describes me as a person, and it's Ramble On from Led Zeppelin. So go through the lyrics. That describes me to a team. Why? Why? What is it? What the lyrics are just about ramble on. It's you know, we've had a few beers, it's time for me to go, the leaves are falling. Uh they're the only ones that ever mention the Lord of the Rings in a song like back in the 70s. And uh mentioned Gollum, you know, it's so in the Gollum took my prince, you know, took my woman and I'm looking for her. So yeah, it's it's it's uh describes me to a teeth. Fantastic. Okay, let's get into it.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

All right, all right. So uh I'm gonna start with you, Greg. Uh, could you tell us about the uh your international teaching journey and what eventually led you to Saudi Arabia?

SPEAKER_01 16:47

I'll put it in a nutshell for you. Um Okay. I grew I graduated from university and in Wisconsin. So I did all my training, and it was December, so I still had another semester to graduate in June. But somebody said to me at a Christmas party, uh, hey, I heard you like to travel and you're telling lots of travel stories and you're you're becoming a teacher. You should go to Iowa. And I laughed at him. I'm like, there's nothing in Iowa but corn, right? And the guy goes, No, no, there's something about some kind of a UNI, you know, Northern Iowa job fair for international. Anyway, because of that, I ended up going to that job fair. I ended up getting a job without even knowing anything about, you know, getting a job for teaching. We didn't interview for jobs until maybe August or September in Wisconsin normally. So here I was. I went to a job fair in Iowa in January of 2000 and got a job teaching in Honduras at fifth grade at an international school. And I hadn't even graduated, I hadn't even finished my student teaching yet. But they hired me because I was a prospective and I was on track to do it. That's the beginning of my journey, and that was back in 2000. So I started in August 2001 teaching overseas, and I'm I misspoke before, it's like January of 2001. So in June of 2001, I got done with my graduation. Went overseas and went down to Honduras. My mom says, Oh my god, you're gonna die. And my dad goes, Oh, they've got great diving there, right? In the same breath, my parents said that to me. And that's looking back 25 years. So since then, every couple of years I would move and travel along and get a different job, a different school, and re-up and stay for several years. So I went from the quick list is Honduras for three, Egypt for one year, Kuwait for two years, Cambodia for two years, Venezuela for four years, Switzerland for three, and then here I am in the Middle East and I'm here for 10 years. So that should be as of August 1st. I'll be here in the sand for 10. And then the top it all off. I'm not retiring, but I'm doing a dad tirement this next year with my family. I'm gonna stay at home for a year with my dad because of some of the other things in my family and see where I go after that. So that's in a nutshell, that's my international journey. Wow, what a journey. I know it's that. Wow, Jacqueline has an awesome story the same way.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Well, no, it's very much the same. It's very much the same. Like, I mean, the reason Greg and I get along so well and and you know, co-host this other podcast is because we are international teacher career teachers. Like we didn't come into this, dip our toes, and then go back home. Neither of us have been back home to teach since we moved overseas. Um, I did my bachelor of education in Ottawa and uh in French as a second language. So FSL at that time it was called FSL. Uh, but I wasn't ready for the Canadian classroom. I felt like they were just gonna eat me alive. The practicum that I had had in Ottawa was awful. I mean, I actually, Greg, you won't believe this, but I had the um supervising teacher that was in the classroom with me. She said, Do you have a voice? Like, I don't ever hear you say anything. And I, that's who I was in teaching training, you know, just so shocked.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Shut her up, listeners. We can't shut her up.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Like the polar opposite of who I am. She talked about it. And so I had to go overseas to find my voice, to find my energy, to find my confidence. So I went to Korea and I actually taught uh English there for three years in two different schools and two different country um cities. Um, and then I heard of international teaching through an internet cafe. I met some people from Korea, um, international school and Seoul Foreign School. Said, what is this international school stuff? And they said, it's great. Like I said, do I have to learn Korean or speak Korean to the kids? And they said, no, it's English only. Like it's math teachers, geography teachers, everybody teaches in English. So I started applying as a French teacher to international schools in Southeast Asia, and they all came back to me saying, Where's your French teaching experience? Because like I'd only been teaching English. So I went back to Canada, taught for three years in a small town just outside of Ottawa, and got my French teaching experience and immediately went overseas. So I got hired in Istanbul. Um, I did eight years in Istanbul because I loved it so much, and I kept growing with the roles. I started middle school and then I went to high school, and then I went to head of department. And after eight years, I moved to Oman in the Middle East. And um they actually headhunted me. I didn't even hear of this job or school, but they had seen, I had posted a YouTube video of me teaching with subtitles so that any head of school would understand what I was saying. And somebody reached out to me and said, We'd like to interview you. And then they flew me into Oman to see what it was like, and I was sold. The minute I landed in Muscat, Oman, I was sold. And so I stayed there for seven years at the American School, and then By that time, you know, 15 years in, I felt like I'd kind of hit the peak of French teaching. And what could I do more? And so I moved into admin. A high school principal sort of tapped me on the shoulder and said, we need more women in leadership, and you would make make a great principal. So I did my master's in education and I went overseas again, but like further east into uh Korea and China and got my feet wet with vice principal positions. And then uh COVID hit. I came back to Canada for a funeral and I got locked out of China. So I quickly went online. I said, I am a principal looking for a job, and Mexico came calling. So I moved to Mexico, I stayed there for a year. Um, the school wasn't the right fit, but the country was. And so then I realized, well, how can I stay in this country if I'm not working for somebody? And that's when I started my own business. And so four years ago, I started JP Mint Consulting, where I help teachers with CV's cover letters interview skills and also job search skills. So I I look through the whole internet and all my network and ask, you know, who has a I'm looking for a part-time visual arts and design tech teacher. And then, you know, somebody reaches out to me and says, that's exactly who we're looking for. So that's what I've been doing for the last four years.

SPEAKER_04 23:22

Now you can obviously have made you've made a a career out of being international teachers. And would you say that's typical, or are most people just the two or three years and then go back to their home country and teach, or is it all over the map?

SPEAKER_00 23:34

It's all over. I mean, we we Greg and I, we've known people that have come in one year, gone, two years, gone. And then we know others like ourselves. And we call them, like on our show, we say veteran international teachers. These are people that have not necessarily gone into it thinking that it's going to be forever, but just that they've gone in and stayed and enjoyed it so much that they just kept staying.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Humbled by some of the the guests that we have on our show, some of the people you meet in this in this uh circle of teachers, which is worldwide. And we call it the best kept secret in education because that's really what it is. I mean, both of us we decide this is for me. I can't imagine teaching in my home country. But I guess my point is I'm humbled by the veteran teachers that I've run into that have been in it since the 90s or since the 80s. And we run into those people more often than not at different job fairs and in in an airport, just a conversation at a hotel by chance. And they're they're all over the place, but we just don't know where they are. And I'm humbled by that. So, yes, I agree with JP. My answer is the same. They are either just beginning and they come out here and it's just like a little sabbatical. They're here for a year, they're gone. We had one woman stay for three days in Honduras. We thought she was like dead. We didn't know where she was. We were hunting, like seriously, we didn't know where she was. It wasn't for her. She just went off traveling. And uh three days. The m the minimum I've seen someone stay for an international gig is three days. But the majority of people, I would say it's all over the map, right? So to speak.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Well, I I can remember I started out in geology, and after a couple uh two years working uh in in the bottom of a silver mine, I decided I needed to talk to people. So I went back to university to get my teaching degree. And I I'm from Ontario, and uh I graduated, said, yes, it's time to teach. And there were no jobs in Ontario. And and that's when lots of people are talking about well, if you can't get a job here in the country, there are many, many jobs internationally. And I I looked at a a lot of uh opportunities, or lots of opportunities in in South America. But in the end, uh I picked up the Toronto Star and it said, Teach English in Japan. I said, Well, I speak English, I can do that. And so my goal was to go to Japan for one year, pay off some student loans, and then cycle tour through Europe. That's my that was my my big thing. In the end, uh I loved Japan so much and lived, you know, in in the community. All my neighbors were were were Japanese, and one year stretched into four. And so I just loved I loved living in Japan. And then after four years in Japan, I ended up traveling for a year and came and came back to Canada. And in that case, I came back to Canada, Ontario. There's still no jobs, or it was difficult to get a job in Ontario. So I jumped in the car and I drove to BC and I'd never been to BC before. And uh when I did get into the uh the district in the board office, they that they were interviewing me. Part of my job was to meet homestay students that came from BC in Chiba City, Japan. And Chiba City, Japan, where I live for four years, is North Vancouver's sister city. So I had all these these connections, and then with in my first day of teaching as a TOC, uh uh um substitute teacher, I met Martin, and that's where our friendship grew from that. 1990. 30 years ago.

SPEAKER_04 26:58

30 years ago we met. Yeah, yeah. And my and my brother definitely is the international teacher that couldn't be here. He started in the 90s, Indonesia and Thailand and um Taiwan he worked in, and he did 10 years in uh Saudi Arabia. He's kind of retired now in Thailand, but anytime he's come back, it's always just been a short stint. He's more comfortable internationally, just that's who he is, and it just works for him so well. So he totally fits that mode. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Greg, uh, what's one thing uh about teaching internationally that people completely misunderstand?

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Well, number one, it's not just you don't have to speak the language of the country that you're teaching in because the international schools are like take a school from your home country in the in Canada or in the US, put it in another country, you know, change the background of the kids a little bit and the language and stuff, but you're teaching just like you you were teaching in your home country. Right. So it's the number one thing is I think the misunderstanding is we're not teaching English to a bunch of little kids on a chalkboard in the middle of a of a village somewhere, right? We we all speak English and we teach regularly like other teachers do.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

We all have crappy coffee in the staff room, and you know, we have we have uh bulletpon bulletin boards to make in August so that the room, you know, the rooms look nice and neat and chairs and tables and everything like that.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yeah, her history is really like her job has been in upper school and mine's been in elementary and K through 12, of course, but mostly elementary. And I tell you, the kids, someone asked me once, are kids the same? Are kids different in every what are the kids like? I'm like, they like Pokemon, they like they go to the bathroom whenever you know they want to get out of class, they they talk a lot, they've they've there are kids and around the world they're the same, and that's it. We're teach, we're the same as somebody that teaches in in Canada or the US. We're just we're not we're not glorified or anything, we're just different. We need to move around a little bit, and there's a lot of differences, of course, but we don't teach English only unless you're an English teacher.

SPEAKER_04 29:01

Yeah, and you talk about you know not having to know the language, but is there any funny lost in translation moments you've ever had with other staff or students or parents or some situation that came up where it just didn't translate?

SPEAKER_01 29:12

No, none.

SPEAKER_04 29:12

Just kidding.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

I was gonna say, uh, how many hours is this podcast when you want to start it?

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Or no? I have to start one. Um one of my favorite ones, I was living in Cambodia, and this is an this is I don't know if this is what you're after, but this is a funny language story. The story is we're having an expat community of uh party. Some Australians friends of mine are having a bunch of expats over, and my buddy calls me up. Mark says, Greg, I need you to bring some rice to the party. I'm like, okay. He's like, just bring one bag or so. That'll be fine. So I I go to the store, I get a bag of rice, wondering, what is he gonna do with rice? I guess it's Cambodia. You have rice with everything. And I get there and he's like, dude, what do you expect us to put the beer in? What do you I want a bag of ice? I'm like, would you speak English next time? You speak Australian, I can't understand you. But it was a lot of fun that that I have a million stories like that, JP.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Well, I just I remind myself or I'm reminded of um when we were trying to learn, learning Turkish is is an easy but difficult language. It's easy because it's very monosyllabic, but then that's also the challenge that a lot of the syllables sort of sound the same. They just change the first letter. And so I'm reminded of a time when we were uh Canadian and French teachers in the in the car and we rolled up to the gas station, and this was uh they pumped for us, so not self-service. So my Canadian friend rolls down the window and he goes, he wanted to ask, Do you have ice? So it's a similar, you know, similar requirement. We needed a bag of ice. Do you have ice? But instead of saying, Do you have ice? he said, I have bananas. And it was the difference between booze and mooes. So he said, mooz. He wanted to say, like, do you have ice? But with the intonation, but it was completely lost in translation. And he was the guy was just looking in the car going, like, where are the bananas? What are you talking about? Who just rolls down the window and goes, I have bananas? So then that that was the translation was moose and booze. But we we don't need to learn the local language, but when we do, our experience is that much richer for all the, you know, trying to communicate with locals and and trying to um yeah, trying to get to know them on their level in their language. I think for me that has always been really important.

SPEAKER_04 31:37

Roy, I'm thinking maybe we should call this episode bananas and ice or something. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Ice. I have one more connection, one more. I thought I'd share this with you because it made uh such a joy to me. And you guys, we're all similar age, but when I lived in Venezuela and I learned the language, the street language, I mean, I was connected. I had a good friend of mine, Ruben, was local, and he taught me a lot of things about their language and the street stuff, right? And one day we're sitting, we're sitting on a boat, and he's like, we're talking about how I was gonna fix the bow anchor line or something like that. And he goes, Well, we'll just MacGyver it. And I'm like, What? He goes, dude, we're gonna MacGyver it. I'm like, you guys say that down here? And it's in their language. He's like, Of course, Venezuela in the 80s, MacGyver was a great show. We all watched it. And that warmed up my heart. I was like, sweet, that was perfect.

SPEAKER_04 32:27

I remember being on an overland in Africa in the early 90s, and they were these South Africans use the term MacGyver all the time. Isn't that incredible? Yeah. I love media. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

So, Jacqueline, what is the biggest culture shock that you've experienced in your first few months abroad?

SPEAKER_00 32:46

I'm gonna have to go with China. Um, when I moved to China in 2018, um, this would all this would be my seventh or sixth country. So, you know, I had I felt like I knew what to do. I need to learn the language as quickly as possible and just kind of be the observer and and notice notice the changes, notice the differences, but know that it'll get easier. But I moved in January when it was really cold. You wouldn't think China's cold necessarily, and it was just outside of Shanghai. But they don't have insulated buildings like we do in Canada. So when it's zero outside, it's like three degrees inside. And I wasn't sure how expensive heat was, so I kept my heat to a minimum to like 12. So I was miserable. And for that first week, I kept going to friends' houses because they had heat. And they were like, why don't you just turn on your heat? But I was so afraid of like a huge electricity bill, and I wasn't sure what the cost of living was like. And everything seemed unfamiliar. You know, it was hard to find food that I liked, it was hard to find places that were less noisy, less chaotic than I'm used to because it's just a very crowded city, crowded country. And so I went through, I gotta say, like six months of misery. It was, it was easily six months of just feeling like I made the biggest mistake. Um, but then it does get better. I started to learn the language, I started to find the right places to shop that weren't so overstimulating. I mean, there was one grocery store you'd walk in, and every corner of the the um the vegetables and had a megahorn just sitting in the tomatoes or sitting in the pears, shouting out the price. Like honestly, it was overwhelming. But I found the right grocery stores that didn't have that and that had, you know, familiar items, and uh, and I I did I did get better, it did get better, but it it was a long, it was a long haul. Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

The first thing that comes to mind, because I have a myriad of stories. One of my first experiences that that I love to share is a reverse culture shock. And I had come, I don't remember which country I came back from, but there's I don't know about you guys, but I've been in a lot of countries where toilets are very different. Like maybe they don't, you don't sit down, maybe they don't flush. There's a lot of just let your mind wander. And there's the opposite extreme too, like Japan and Korea, there there are super toilets that that are futuristic, and I have not experienced the future toilets yet, but uh in this case I felt like I did. I flew into Chicago, into O'Hare on a repat sometime, and I remember distinctly going into the bathroom, and the toilet seat had this paper around it. And I was like, I'm not comfortable with this. So I sort of ripped the paper off and then it it flushed, and then the paper went back around the seat again. And I'm like, this is an airport. I mean, airports don't have things like this. What this is weird, and and I just couldn't adjust to this. Uh because I like I said, you can imagine the toilets that I've seen before. And then the culture of technology was so strange to me that I went to a local like Target or something. In the US, we call them Target or Target. I don't know if they're you have them up in Canada. I don't know. Yeah. Uh Target. Yeah. The red the red target. They have them around overseas, but they're different color targets, and they're yeah, anyway. I go into Target one time and I don't know the year, but I had never seen a self-serve uh aisle. So I went through the self-serve aisle and you just scan it and you walk through. And the first time I did it, it beeped, and I was getting like a rated R DVD or something. And I was like, this is a challenge. What else can I get? Somebody, you know, instead of beeping, it it has a red light flashing like I need help from a human. And I was like, Oh, this is cool. This is a challenge. What am I going to get now that I have to get help with as a 35-year-old trying to get some something illegal? I don't know. Rated R tobacco, what can I get here? And I just went through that line. And I swear the manager must have been like a pit boss at, you know, wondering what was I doing? Because I kept going out, getting single things coming in through the single line and scanning it myself, and they had to keep going back over. I was interested in the process and the limits. And I had never seen this before because most markets I had been to, except for Thailand, of course, you know, there's lots of technology there, but that was a reverse culture shock for me, both of those instances. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:28

Now, have either of you ever had a lesson completely a bomb because of a cultural misunderstanding? Something where the you you had a sense of something that the students did not and weren't on the same page because of a cultural thing. Greg, I am trying to think right now.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Okay, well, I've got one if you're not.

SPEAKER_04 37:43

Let me get back and start. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

So in in French class, we wanted I like to uh get the kids to learn skills and then use those skills. And so it was a description uh unit. So we're learning everything you need to know about somebody the height, the weight, the hair color, the eyes, the um uh if it in some cases, you know, nationality or what they like to do in their spare time and all of that. And I thought, how do you make that fun? So I'm in the Middle East and I said, Oh, we're gonna make wanted posters. And so I made wanted posters with the, you know, the prison bars and stuff. And then the kids had to draw a picture and then describe the the criminal. And it wasn't quite landing the way I thought it was. Like people, the the kids were kind of going, like, why are we describing criminals? Like what and and then why do we care what they like to do on the weekend? So it wasn't quite landing the way it I thought. And then some kids were really making joke ones like of each other. So it was like, yeah, I'm gonna put you in the jail. Yeah, and so yeah, that didn't quite land the way I thought it would.

SPEAKER_04 38:54

Yes. When you said the wanted poster, I thought, oh, I don't know, that would go.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

I guess for me, it would have to be Honduras when I was first starting to teach my first couple of years, and I put up a Christmas tree with Pez dispensers on my PESMA's tree, very Christian, very Catholic, you know. Um, but it was holiday and we were leading up to Christmas, and I know that some of the kids had I I thought I was bringing my culture to the kids in Honduras, and I was just so naive. I didn't realize that 90% of them had dual passports, had more houses in the U.S. than my family ever did, had so much more money. They were top one percenters. And I thought I'm going to teach the class how to make snowflakes in Honduras, okay? Where you cut the piece of paper and they're all unique. And I thought it was this great way of showing them what we do in our class at Christmas time. And the fifth graders looked at me like I was some idiot. You know, it's like, what are we doing? Yeah, okay, can we go out to recess? It just bombed. I mean, and that's one of a thousand lessons that have bombed. But that's due to culture, it's life of a teacher. Yeah, I know, right? You're not doing your job if you don't bomb once in a while. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

Yeah, yeah. A lot of bombs.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

You're not taking chances then, right? Yeah, yeah. I have one that I learned though, that before you go on, Roy, I'm gonna back it up with the same classroom that I had. I learned something from a I learned something from kids every day. And I was in teaching fifth grade, and we had these slat windows, and we'd keep the doors open, and it was humid, we had fans up above, but we're in the mountains, and we had a hummingbird fly into my classroom. And the bird would fly up to the window and it would, you know, it hit the window and it would pass out and land on the bookshelf, and they would start fluttering again and pass out, boom, and it would hit the window again. You know, birds do that, but it would stun itself and it was trying to get out. So all of my I had 32 kids just looking at it, and we had to stop everything, and I was wondering what to do. I mean, like, what do you do? And one of the kids in the back just raised his hand, he goes, Mr. Mr. Just grab it by the beak when it passes out again. And I was like, What? So it hits it again, I go up next to it, I pick it up by its beak, and it starts flapping its wings, and I'm holding it, and I'm not gonna break its bones or anything, it's just flying, flying, flying. I'm holding on to it, I walk out and open up my hand as soon as I get out the door and it flies away. I was like, just the greatest lesson I have ever learned. That was like my first year of teaching. Nice great lesson.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

It's interesting because when nature does come into a classroom, uh, and it can be the smallest uh we get like a wasp when the weather gets warm warmer, and then all of a sudden um everything stops until until hijack. Yeah, the wasp gets out. You and I try I try to I always try to cat capture it in a way to get it out. You know, I don't want to model uh smooshing anything against the window, uh, but wasps and spiders can uh yeah, really turn your class sideways.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Shut everything down. I have another story. I mean, this doesn't end here. This is still like my first year teaching. I they had a kindergarten in the same school and they had a maintenance staff, and anytime they had some kind of animal intruder, this maintenance staff that came the kids out. They had a possum that went into one of the ground floor classrooms during recess. The teacher called the maintenance to get it out of there, and the kid, like some of the kids were in there and everything. They beat the shit out of that thing and killed it right in front of the kids and then scraped it up and took it out. Oh, the maintenance did. The maintenance did. Well, they took like bats and stuff. Oh my god. Well, there's yin and yang, right? There's good and there's bad in every school. It's but your shock value is like, whoa, the stories you can tell 25 years later.

SPEAKER_04 42:45

I mean, in North Band, we're privileged to be close to wilderness. So we've had on our property bears, moose, loons here have come by, coyotes, loons.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

I'm just thinking about Canadian, like, you know, beavers.

SPEAKER_02 42:59

Wilderness. Well, yeah. Well, I can remember I was it was recess time. I'm sitting in the classroom doing some work, and and so everybody's out on the playground, and I just hear this commotion. I can't I don't have no idea what it is. And the kids are chasing a deer across across the playground. It's running across the playground. And the school that I I'm from has over 400 students on that one section of the school. So you have 400 students chasing this deer. Get it, Marvin. What is it? What are you gonna do when you get to that? I have no idea.

SPEAKER_04 43:34

What is that engine? Is that a is that an evolutionary survival thing? I don't think.

unknown 43:38

What is that?

SPEAKER_02 43:39

I know what I'm gonna have for lunch. Throwing pencils at it. Get it! So, Jacqueline, what is the strangest school rule or expectation that you've encountered internationally?

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Um, I mean, uh, quite a few schools I've been at, they don't allow open toed shoes. Uh, I mean, men and Women, but men, I think that means sandals in most cases. So, but in some some of these places, we're teaching in really hot conditions. Now we do have air conditioning in the in the classrooms, but um, but you know, if you have duty outside and you're wearing socks and shoes, it's it's a whole other ball game. You know, when it's 30, 35 degrees outside and you're wearing some real clod hoppers, it's it's not enjoyable. So I remember thinking, why, you know, we're not industrial uh engineers where things are gonna drop on our toes and and break our feet. So we don't need steel-toed shoes or anything. But I I don't know if it was some kind of a cultural thing, but it was several countries that I'd been in where they just they I guess they found that it it would look too uh casual, but it wasn't it wasn't conducive to to comfort in the classroom.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

I have mine written out. I have actually printed it out. This was, and I'll tell you the meaning of it in a second, but it's it's called uh a memo to all teachers 2006 regarding tissues in bathroom from the lead principal. It says putting tissue in the bowl of the toilet causes blockages and a resultant smell. Please use the trash bins in the cubicles to dispose of tissue. Your cooperation will be gratefully appreciated. The reason I brought this up is because it's it's a no-brainer for most of us that go have been overseas for a long time, but a lot of cultures don't have the same kind of plumbing. And if they do have the kind of plumbing and sewage, they don't have the right kind of toilet paper that dissolves in water like we do in in Canada and the US. But I tell you what, the fact that the principal had to print that out made us laugh so hard that I had to print, I had to actually keep a copy of it because it's so ridiculous that he was telling us this, blaming all the Westerners, like it's us. Have you ever seen a kid in a bathroom? And they're not just going to the bathroom, they are in there just like taking a you know, you guys went to school.

SPEAKER_04 46:03

I mean, seriously. My wife teaches uh primary in the school nearby, and just the other day that was the big issue. The toilets are all getting clogged, and it's the kids going in there and they're doing that, right? Yeah, coming in. I think I did it in grade one when I was in grade one. Now, just to give listeners uh not a totally rosy colored view of the universe when you internationally teach, what would you say is some of the some of the challenges and uh teaching when you're overseas, living overseas, in fact? How it's not always easy, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:35

Well, I think Greg could attest to this that we miss a lot from home. We miss a lot of anniversaries, birthdays, um, you know, when when family members get sick, go into hospital. We we can't just jump on a plane a lot of times uh and and join. And so I remember several members of my family passing away and not getting to be back in their funerals. And then I mean, for me, I have FOMO as a regular person, fear of missing out, but I mean, major FOMO when you're hearing about all the family that went to the funerals and that you got to miss making those connections again and hearing the stories. And so I would say that that is probably the most painful thing about living overseas is missing all those moments.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

Well, you agree. It's not as much me, but I think there's a lot of teachers that uh they one of the things about international is that no one's taking care of you and your retirement. Right now, there's that's one of one thing that no one's taking care of, you're alone, and you have to learn how to set your own money aside for future and retirement, etc. And right alongside of that is also uh teacher rights. So there's nobody in the States, there's a lot with teacher rights, and there's unions and things like that. I'm not as well versed with Canada, but I would imagine you have also unions, uh something of the nature, and they take care of you or they can fight for you in certain situations. There, there's nothing. So those two things, good or bad, they're not provided for you. So you have to really defend for yourself.

SPEAKER_04 48:09

Yeah, I'm a I'm a former union president of the teachers association here. So to know that teachers just you're on your own and things come up and it's nice to have support, that that that is a challenge.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

Have you noticed differences in the way students respect uh teachers uh internationally? Like in the differences, uh I guess for well, one of the things that I I think of when I was in Japan, well, I absolutely loved it. I walked into the room, there was always a senior student. I walk into the room, everyone would stand at attention, they would go kid and they would bow, and that's how I would start my lesson. And then even at lunchtime, I they would serve me my lunch. And so it's like I like that. I like that. So Jacqueline.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

Yeah, that's that's one of our our um major benefits of teaching overseas is education and teachers, generally speaking, around the world are highly respected uh professions. And um teachers and parents see themselves on the same side. And that was one of the reasons I had to leave Canada, was because I found it very confrontational with parents as opposed to when I moved to Turkey, parents were like, How do I get my child to study more? How do I get them to, you know, do more homework or learn this? And it's like, wow. And they're coming to me as the expert in the room, as opposed to thinking that they've got all the answers. So I I was I was um taken aback by that, you know, taken aback that uh parents see us as team members of raising their children, you know, and and that essentially, I mean, we're spending more time with them often than the parents are. So they see us as a resource, they see us as uh a team member for everything, for their d child's development, their intellectual, their personality. And so I that I think that's why we stay overseas because the idea to come back to home where that conflict and that uh confrontation is is daunting. And uh and as you said, the kids in some cultures they stand up for the the teachers. I had um in one situation in Korea, I was teaching uh a couple of kids privately in their home. And so they give me the best uh cushion to sit on the floor because it was in Korea. So I'm sitting on the floor in a big cushion and the kids are on like these little thin cushions. So I was like, ooh, I'm already on a nice thick cushion. And then and then they came in and they gave me a stick, and they say, beat my kid if he doesn't listen. I was like, okay, maybe we'll just put this stick over here. And you know, you see the kids just eyeing the stick, like, okay, I better be a good kid. But you know, the respect and the the child beating aside, the respect given to teachers is huge overseas.

SPEAKER_04 51:08

I was just reading an article in a British magazine, a British newspaper this morning, and it was a teacher talking about how when they were young, if they if they got in trouble, they'd go home and they'd get it again from their parents. But now that they're teaching, automatically the parent takes the child's side, and you know, then they get it from the parent complaining about the discipline that was happening. And that's that's definitely happening throughout North America as well. That you know, you don't want the extreme, you don't want to have to give the stick to the parent to beat them at home, but something in the middle would be kind of nice, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:38

Yeah, yeah. Piggyback on that, I recently heard a quote from somebody saying that I forgot who it was, but back in our day, when we went home and we're in trouble at school, if you went home, the parent your parents would say, All right, what did you do to what did you do today? Right it's just another way of saying what you said. And now when parents I hear that when parents when kids are coming home from school, they're like, What did the teacher do today? Right. And I can't attest to that because I can only do it from hearing and from reading and sharing other people's experiences. I haven't seen it firsthand. I've never taught in the States beyond the beginning. Um I do want to follow follow up and say I've never had a student serve me lunch before. I like that one. Like a god, like a demi god. Woo! That is just fantastic. But I whatever, whatever Jack, everything Jacqueline said is true. In fact, when I whenever I interview or whenever somebody asks me why I teach overseas, why don't you just come home and teach? Our kids are important too. I say, I teach overseas because number one, of respect. A lot of people say it's because of the money you can save or the experiences of the travel. And I'm like, it's not, this is not like a little uh vacation. All right. I'm a teacher first and I everything else after that. And number one, it's respect that keeps me overseas. And I've been in six different, seven different schools, six continents, whatever. It's it's standard.

SPEAKER_04 53:02

Greg, have you ever had any strange or weird misunderstanding of your own of America when you taught to students, that they had some idea of what America was about, or they misunderstood that you had to explain to them?

SPEAKER_01 53:12

Numerous. I I don't think I could give you a good example right now, but I tell you one thing that I've learned about living overseas is I have defended our country more than ever. Okay. I have also cry when I hear the national anthem for watching a baseball game. I cry. I have become, I have loved, I have become a lover, a patriot of my own country. Anytime something comes up, and I don't talk politics overseas, anybody with anybody, but when I hear something about my country and I have to show them the good stuff. And anytime someone starts badmouthing my country, I I get defensive and I start pointing out the good stuff. And it doesn't matter where they're from, but if it's one of my one of my own patriots, I will I'll be I'll just like you need to shut up now, right? Right. Think about all the good stuff. Yeah. So I don't it doesn't really answer your question. It's tough to give you it's a tough to give you a specific example after 25 years, but uh there's a lot of miscommunication, a lot of misunderstanding. I say I'm from Green Bay, and they say, Well, is that near California? I say, No. They said, Oh, it's by New York, and I said, No, it's in between, right?

SPEAKER_00 54:17

Right in the middle.

SPEAKER_04 54:19

Jacqueline, do you get those misunderstandings about Canada being snow, you know, e we all live in eaglo's kind of thing? Does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 54:25

And and also because I so yeah, I think I'm I'm at that point where I've spent more than half my life outside of Canada.

SPEAKER_03 54:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

And more so of those 25, 26 years overseas, I've spent most of those in hot countries. So my blood is extremely thin. And whenever I say I'm cold, they're like, but you're Canadian. And it's like, but I haven't lived in winter for 25 years. Total wimp. I'm freezing. Let's put on another sweater.

SPEAKER_04 54:55

W for you, you're wimp. And especially for us living in Vancouver, it's never cold here. It's it's very mild, but you people people still expect it's a winter country everywhere, right?

SPEAKER_02 55:05

Yes, yeah, everywhere. Uh so I'm gonna go with Greg. Greg, how has um international teaching changed you outside of the classroom?

SPEAKER_01 55:16

Wow. I think I know one thing is that I have become more creative. I have had to really know myself. You have to really know who you are. When you're overseas, it doesn't matter if you're in a family or if you're single or if you're in a couple, you have to know yourself because there's a lot of downtime, right? When I don't have something to keep me occupied, I become creative. But there are times where you have nothing to do and you start thinking about yourself. So I have thought and gotten to know myself a lot more, just like who I am. And that was that's really important to know who you are so you can become a better person. And uh I'll stick with that answer. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

Um, so piggybacking on what Greg says, know who you are, but also you learn who you are. You you um you adapt different cultural idiosyncrasies. You know, I don't walk into someone's house and keep my shoes on anymore. And when I go into Canada, some Canadian homes, they're like, no, no, keep your shoes on. And I'm like, I cannot physically keep my shoes on and walk on your carpets. So that you know, you pick up some of these things, like I can't wear a tank top out in public after 15 years in a Middle Eastern country. I just I can't show my shoulders in public. And it's not like I'm a Muslim or anything else. It's just it's so ingrained in my conservative nature that I don't want to do that or wear shorts, you know, in the inappropriate places. So I would say that I learned who I was, but who I am and who I it it changes with each country. You know, I get I get to a new country and I learn something that I really like about that country. And I, ah, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna take that on, and that's gonna be part of my culture now or my value system.

SPEAKER_04 57:02

Thank you, thank you. And just just I just want to end with some of the kind of the focus you have in your career a little bit too now. Now, Greg, you recently wrote a children's book, correct? I did. Can you tell us about the book and what inspired you to write this?

SPEAKER_01 57:15

Well, I guess it's it's I've been inspired as an elementary teacher since day one of stepping into a classroom, or even before I became a teacher. But it's like think of the boy that always gets out of class by going to the bathroom, or he's got another excuse, or he spends forever. He's the slowest walking human being ever in a hallway and misses class. So I wrote a book about that for the last 25 years. Then I used AI and I spent a week of Eid break and published it and illustrated it and everything. And it's called uh Stay for the Show. So that's my first children's book that I've published. It's fantastic, and it's on Amazon.

SPEAKER_00 57:52

First of many.

SPEAKER_01 57:53

I'm sorry. Yeah. The first one was called Finding the Right Fit. And I have a second edition out now called the I think it's called The Teacher's uh It's Finding the Ritchie.

SPEAKER_00 58:02

Finding the Right Fit, the Teacher's Guide to Teaching Overseas or something. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 58:06

And then I think I changed that name to Teacher's Guide, Finding the Right Fit. The second book was International Teaching, The Best Kept Secret in Education. Uh, and all three of those books can be found on Amazon. So the first two are nonfiction with some anecdotes thrown in there. The third one is my most recent, and that is a children's book that just came out. So I love it. Did you enjoy that? Uh if you if you're a teacher, you have to publish a book sometime in your life because I have been teaching the writing process for my entire life of teaching, and I finally understand what the whole writing process is in real life, not just making my own little drawings and stuff. I'm talking about publishing, editing, thought process, re-editing, the whole process in real life and trying to get a book on Amazon. It's it's tough. I mean, it's really but anyway, that's that's the authorship. I have enjoyed it so much. And thanks for asking about that. I've I don't I think my mom read it once.

SPEAKER_04 59:06

We'll put a we'll put a link to all those on our website, stuntbrothers.ca.

SPEAKER_01 59:10

So just uh They're really helpful if you want to know more about how to get like how to succeed at a job fair for international teaching. Or if you want to know more about international teaching, that the second one is a real metacognitive. It's like general big scope of what it is. The the other one, the first book, was really my failure at a job fair or my first job fair success and the failures I had. So you can learn a lot from those books. But thank you very much for asking about that.

SPEAKER_04 59:38

Can you tell us about your services and what you do and how people can connect and and reach you if they want to make use of those services?

SPEAKER_00 59:44

Yeah, when I when I started this business, which is essentially a website, when I started that website, I spoke with uh a very good friend who's been his own business entrepreneur, self-employed since he was 13 years old. And he's my age, like 53. So 40 years of entrepreneurship and starting up businesses, and then they don't that didn't work. Okay, let me start this business. So self-employed. I asked him, what should I do with my website? Um, should I do like a paywall or a subscription or something? And he said, put everything there for free. Put everything on, all your knowledge on for free. And people will see your expertise and then they will hire you. And so I've gone full hog on that. I have 50 articles that I've written. I don't use AI, so I don't understand how to use AI. So even if I wanted to, I wouldn't know how to use it. So I write these articles. They take me a couple of days to write and draft form, and then, you know, sleep on it, read it again, send it to somebody. Maybe they say, yeah, change this verb. But I write 50 art, I've written 50 articles about teaching overseas. I've written 50 job search tips. So different um organizations that can help you find a job or different tips on cover letters or CVs. So I put all that expertise for free on my website so people don't have to hire me. And then if they end up saying, okay, I don't want to have to read a hundred pieces of articles and tips, I'll just hire her. She seems to know what she's talking about. And so in that first year, I um I had a lot of word of mouth, you know, friends, uh, friends of friends hiring me. And then that has grown. And thanks to Greg as well for um inviting me as the co-host. A lot of people hear me on ITP, they think I have a lot to share, and then they hire my services. So, simply put, you go on my website, jpminconsulting.com, and you can hire me to do your CV cover letter and help you with your interview skills. But I also now have an option of DIY. So if they don't want to pay me to do it, but they want to do their own cover letter in CV, I have templates that are very easy to just plug and play. Um, and then they still meet with me in a video call and we go over it very, very finely. I'm a very nitpicky person with formatting, making sure there's no spelling mistakes, there's no language, the period shouldn't be there, it should be over here. Um but uh and then and then I check in with my clients. So I get to know them personally. And over time, if I haven't heard from them for a month or two, I'll write, I'll reach out and say, you know, what's going on? How was that interview with you know that school? And so I'm a partner in their job search and I celebrate their success. When they get hired, I feel like I just got hired. And so I'm really excited. You know, when I look at where all my clients are going, I keep track of that because then if I have a client who wants to go to that particular school, I say, oh, I have a client that's already there. Let's let's put you together. So I reach out to both of them. And so the network has grown in the last four years. Um, I've pretty much tripled my business every year. So first year, second year was triple, then third year was tripled, and then this fourth year I doubled, I doubled because by that time the numbers get pretty big. But it's never gotten so big that I need to hire someone to help me. Um, this DIY option was actually this the saving grace because then I don't need to do put in as much work into creating uh the documents.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:21

Well, and I I I would imagine some of the joy you had with your students teaching, you've kind of transformed that to this with these this joy you have seeing the success of some of your clients. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:31

Yeah, I I've got to say, working with teachers and working with adults, uh, and in some cases school leaders. So I've had anybody, everybody up to a head of school actually hire me and and headhunt for them. Um, I really enjoy the interaction. I feel like the video calls are quintessentially meeting them. And we get to know each other really well if we've had a series of video calls, um, preparing them for interviews or even discussing the offers. You know, when they get an offer, is this a good offer? What should I ask? And then I have um a way to sort of analyze the offer and then ask further questions. So it's it's been a it's been for me, my favorite part of the day is podcasting and video calling, but not in that, like necessarily in that order. But if I have a call with a client or a podcast on that day, I get to sort of like leave this beautiful city of Queretero and travel to Africa or travel to Asia. Or so I I just love it.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:33

Well, we'll definitely put links up for that as well. And uh tell us about ITP then your international teachers podcast, the origin of that and the fun you've had doing it and all those who are involved. Tell us more.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:45

Boy, that's a long I'll give you another nutshell. Like the origin of it. I don't I don't I haven't heard the podcast episode from you guys, the origin. I just know that we don't have a fun name like you do. I mean, like Stewie and Hunt, you know, stunt brothers. We don't have anything like that. I heard one episode about you guys, and I was like, oh, that's what it was. Yeah, and let's see, the origin was 2021. Matt Judd, teacher friend of mine, says it was in Venezuela with me. We both came to the Middle East, long story short, he says, we should do a podcast. I'm like, okay, never done a podcast, never listened to podcasts, whatever. I just sit around and love talking about teaching. So does Matt. So he and I both said, Why don't we just sit around and put it out there and we'll talk? And then he he he and I did the first year together. We're trying to ask everybody I know, would you be on our show? Would you be on our show? Because I can't just sit there and talk. You have like your podcast. We need to have some guests, you know, to bring in. We could talk forever, but uh, people get sick of hearing just JP and I or Matt and I. So, anyway, we went through, we have five different co hosts that are on. Uh Matt and I did the co founding of it for the first year. We invited JP on after she was our guest twice. Jacqueline was our guest. Twice and on her one year anniversary was our two year anniversary for the International Teacher Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

The exact same day they started the podcast. A year later, I started JP Mint. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:12

And then we invited uh like the powerhouse of personality was Kent, and Kent is now in Seattle, so almost Canada, right? And he was in Saudi with us for a while, and he recently retired. And well, not retired, he left Saudi, he and his wife. Then we invited on Darion, who is also with us. He's another powerhouse family guy and personality. And then, of course, we have Hannah, who is our newest. And what we tried to do from the beginning is to have different points of view. So I'm the single guy, and Matt was the family guy. Then we had uh Jacqueline enter in a Canadian woman admin. And then, of course, we have Darien, a man of color, a man of family. He's got three kids. Matt was fading away a little bit. He's gonna come back on the show, but I didn't have anybody, so we said Darien join us. And then we had an opportunity once Darien was fading a little bit and Kent was getting involved in life, and we needed a little bit more help with this. And it turned out JP and I were only doing it. Then we invited Hannah on, and Hannah's been a powerhouse too.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:17

So Family Gal with two boys.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:20

The family gal. So we have a lot of different points of view, not just personalities. And that was the original idea behind Matt and I starting it off with Family Guy, Single Guy. And it's been so much fun. I can't wait to have you guys on our show. Our listeners will hear you, and hopefully your listeners will hear us and grow our because we're all talking about education. We are that's why it's celebrated. We're celebrating the passion of education. And the idea is that we just want to sit around and talk about stuff that we know already and share and then find out more about other people. And that's how we've just we've been so successful. I mean, we have like 20 interviews this month lined up, and we don't we're just sort of scrambling.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:00

We have windows now. We have windows of recording um simply because our lives get kind of busy to to parcel in an interview here and there. And so I suggested why don't we just open a window and that's our recording window, and then we can because the interviews are not necessarily timely that we need to like if we're not talking about current events and things, we don't need to worry about, well, this can get published like three months down the road. Um and so uh our guests have ranged from, you know, uh American teachers, uh Canadian teachers, British teachers now teaching overseas, to other nationalities. And I really enjoy it, like today, for example, we recorded with a a Dutch father who's looking at getting into international teaching and then bringing his family overseas. So we enjoy, I especially enjoy when other nationalities join us because they bring such um a new perspective to international teaching.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:59

And what I love about these things, I think there's in this world there's so much that divides us, right? And I think things like this bring us together, and we need this now more than ever. We're all different countries, and we we all realize we all want the same thing, and this is what it's this brings about. So I appreciate that. And Greg, you got to hang out with three other Canadians, so there you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:17

Well the other thing is when you spend uh your career teaching and you're involved in education, it's um it's one of those things where teaching is a situation where I don't know many people who say, Well, I've taught for 20 years and I hated every moment of it. Because you wouldn't last, right? And so to to have something that you've dedicated so much of your your energy and and and your time, your your your energy, your time, and your life into, there has to be some tangible thing that you're able to pull out of that experience that's that's kept you going. And then when you when you meet other teachers like that and you start sharing um the passion that you have, uh it it it it's it is in a way, it's it's kind of like unfolding the stories of of of of the of the successes and the failures. And and and when we when we're together, no matter what country we're from, you can see that common thread in the weave that and and that that is that's there's so much joy that comes from that. You say, okay, I I had the same problem, and I'm like thousands of miles away from you, but the the issue is the same. And I I love those common threads that that uh teachers share.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:31

And it it's contagious, and I find the joy today has been contagious, and I really appreciate sitting down with all of you and having you come on our podcast. It's been such a pleasure. It's been a pleasure to be on your podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:42

You guys are famous, right? And we feel like we've been sort of in our mind, you guys. We're famous with my mom. I mean, but anyway, no, I think that we're both both of our podcasts as well as others that we've been on and share in common. The best thing about it is that we pay it forward. We're trying to share what we have learned. Because I don't know about you guys, and I I have this feeling about all of us. I know for me for sure if I learn something and I don't pass it on, I feel like it's wasted on me. So therefore, I want to pay it forward, and that's what we're doing right now. So thanks for having us on your show. We can expand our listenership, hopefully, and share all these great things. Yeah, thanks everyone. Thank you very much. Appreciate it, guys.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:29

Well, we had a lot of laughs on that one. Yeah, it was so good. I think there was more laughs on that podcast than quite a few of our episodes when we have guests, right? Because usually it's kind of serious. And no, we had a few serious things to touch on, but I thought it was a wonderful, wonderful chat.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:41

Yeah. Yeah. And I I loved uh how the the the both of them talked about uh teaching and how they have made it their own. Uh obviously they're not just teaching. I mean uh Greg Greg. Yes. Greg who's written books you know, while he's teaching. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:01

And then uh Jacqueline, who's moved from teaching to administration to being an an

Wrap Up With Roy and Martin

SPEAKER_02 1:12:08

entrepreneur. Yeah, yeah. Running a business that's helping other teachers, facilitating that, right? Trevor Burrus, Jr. Um all the skill set that she learned as an international teacher. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:17

And I think that shows people like teaching does give you a skill set that's beyond just the classroom. It really does. And that's the wonderful thing about the profession. Maybe sometimes when people get a little down on the dumps about it, they they should think about that too, right? It can lead to other things as well. You've you're gaining skills. It's never a waste of time. Even if you go, okay, I don't think teaching is quite for me anymore. Right. There are other areas you can move into. And uh just hearing them talk, hearing the fun, the experiences they've had, the things they've done. And the passion they have for teaching. Trevor Burrus, Jr. And it's not for everybody, and that's one of those things you have to really be into this, right? You really have to think this is this is your thing to be in a different culture and to teach.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:55

Aaron Ross Powell You I mean, we we talk about pivoting in the classroom, but then you're pivoting in a different culture. Uh there there are cultural the cultural differences, the food differences, the things that you go internationally to find something that's uh the same as what you left behind, you're uh you're gonna be sadly uh mistaken.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:14

Trevor Burrus If you just want McDonald's, don't go. Don't go, right? You have to be ready for things that might go a little the wrong way sometimes too. Yeah. That's actually teaching as well. So that's great. And it was just wonderful to have them on. So we look forward to you watching the episode and we look forward to being on their podcast as well. So thanks everyone. Thanks for listening. And as always, stay healthy, stay happy, stay fit, and we'll see you next time on After the Bell. There should be two more. Yeah, you got two f you can. We'll figure it out for now. You come out with two more. We need to use all five fingers. Okay. See ya everyone.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:48

Bye.