Stunt Summer Sessions #6: Thinking About Retirement

In Episode 79, your Stunt Brothers wish you a happy BC Day as the long weekend sends promises of barbecues with family and friends and cool dips in the ocean. Roy and Martin are well aware that many of you may already be getting that feeling in your stomach that tells you school is just around the corner, no doubt ignited by the back to school ads that seem to start earlier each year. While there is still lots of summer left to unwind before the new year begins, the Stunt Brothers  know from experience that it is never too early to start thinking about retirement. And so their Stunt Summer Sessions continue with a re-broadcast of their engaging conversation with the iconic Linda Watson who also knows a thing or two about getting financially and emotionally prepared for retirement. 

Their conversation covers various aspects of retirement, including the emotional readiness to leave teaching, the financial implications of retirement, and the changes in pension plans over the years. Linda's experiences and advice provide valuable guidance for all teachers no matter at what point they are in their career.

Takeaways
Teachers often feel overwhelmed with work even after students leave.
Retirement requires careful planning and preparation.
Linda Watson is a respected figure in the education community.
Pension plans have evolved, impacting retirement benefits.
Teachers should consider their emotional readiness for retirement.
Financial planning is crucial for a successful retirement.
Health benefits change significantly after retirement.
TTOC work can supplement retirement income but shouldn't be relied upon.
Understanding pension options is essential for teachers.
Retirement offers the gift of time to pursue new interests.

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Transcript

Speaker 0:05

Good afternoon, podcast listeners everywhere. Welcome to After the Bell, a Stunt Brothers production. I'm Martin Stuible.

Speaker 1 0:13

And I'm Roy Hunt, and we share your pain, having taught a combined 70 years. 70 years. I know. Wow. So get out your marking, organize your supplies, or just pour yourself a coffee. I think I need something stronger. That's okay. Okay. And listen, engage, and interact with After the Bell, a podcast for you, the hardworking, dedicated teacher who wants free lesson plans, free advice, and a free meal.

Speaker 0:36

Well, I always show up for a free meal. It's August. It is It's the beginning of August, though. Yes. Right? It's a long August is just a great month. And you gotta enjoy it.

unknown 0:50

Yes.

Speaker 0:51

Enjoy it, please. And today is August 3rd. And last week we celebrated your birthday, but August 3rd would have been my mom's birthday.

Speaker 1 0:59

Oh.

Speaker 0:59

And she would have been like a hundred or a hundred and one. It's unbelievable. Yeah. So I always think of her on August third, and I'm thinking of her today. I'm thinking how great the summer is.

Speaker 1 1:10

Yes. It is it's uh and again, you know, you're running the West Coast and uh summer is amazing. You see the trees, uh you feel the heat. Yeah.

Speaker 1:19

Um we know it's been a little smoky once in a while, and that's certainly discouraging, but hopefully people can still find time to make the best of summer.

Speaker 1 1:27

Yeah, yes.

Speaker 1:28

And we're going through our top five list of our favorite podcasts. And we're now at number three. You did your number three last year. I am. My number three was our episode fifty.

Speaker 1 1:41

Okay.

Speaker 1:41

Kind of a celebration when we got to fifty, and it was Talking Career and Retirement with Linda Watson.

Speaker 1 1:47

Wow.

Speaker 1:47

And I I celebrate this episode for a couple of reasons. I think it's important that people think about their retirement, you know, so that you can enjoy it like I am, right?

Speaker 1 1:55

And being well, I enjoy my retirement.

Speaker 1:57

You do, absolutely. Like you are. I didn't want to speak for you. You might hate it. I don't know. I've learned not to speak for others.

Speaker 1 2:07

Okay, good.

Speaker 2:08

Um but also Linda Watson is an icon in in in North Vancouver. She was a union leader, she uh she was on the BCTF executive too. And her knowledge of retirement, because she also was the chair of the pension board and our pension is well looked after because of Linda Watson. And her ability to explain and make it simple and also humorous when she talks about pensions is second to none. You know? And even I I we we went to BCTF meetings, and even there, when she often would give a yearly update on the finances of the pension, it was very dry, kind of accounting if most people did it. But when she did it, people would turn and go, she's the only one I know that makes numbers fun, right? She was funny, she was engaging, and it just made people really feel secure that their pension was well looked after. And so having Linda on, we went to her place. Yes. Right? And which it was so charming of her to invite us into her house and uh here's some tips on what to do to prepare for retirement.

Speaker 1 3:10

And I think the the the the idea is when we were at Linda's it was our first podcast where we actually drank some wine. We did. And and I think the whole idea of that's how relaxed Linda is. Yes, exactly. And her retirement says, Oh, there's time for wine.

Speaker 3:27

There's time for wine. So thank you, Linda. Thank you. And uh as always, Linda, we so appreciate what you continue to do for the teachers and for other people in British Columbia. And uh it was such a pleasure. And so I think if you happen to miss this episode or you want to hear it again, because there's a lot of things that you might miss the first time, listen to this episode again and you'll hear a few more pointers on how to get ready for life after teaching.

Speaker 1 3:51

There is it life after teaching? I th I find there's life, there's lots of life.

Speaker 3:55

There's lots of life. It's too much life sometimes.

unknown 4:04

Mr.

Speaker 4:05

Hunt, here we are.

Speaker 1 4:06

Here we are.

Speaker 4:06

Happy New Year to you. Um we had a I mean the funny thing is today is episode fifty. But this is a bit of deja vu.

Speaker 1 4:16

I know. It's like a fifty, but not as fifty.

Speaker 4:19

Because Stunt Brothers can't count. Yes. And because we missed a few, but when that shows up, this is the one that shows up as episode fifty.

Speaker 1 4:26

That's right. But it's actually episode fifty three, I think.

Speaker 4:30

I think so, yeah. Yeah, but but we'll we'll leave this, we won't bring this topic up anymore because we hit fifty. And we're we're hitting fifty again for the second time. So from now on, it's just what it is. Well, it's a lot. A lot of episodes, I will be happy.

Speaker 1 4:45

I remember when I hit fifty. Yeah. It was actually fifty. It wasn't like maybe Well, I'm older.

Speaker 4:53

I do remember one year, I think I I put myself older for a year almost, and then I realized, oh no, you're not that age yet. So it that was a nice feeling.

Speaker 1 5:02

That's right.

Speaker 5:03

So kind of thinking you're fifty before you're fifty isn't such a bad policy. Okay. Because then you go and you think, oh, I'm fifty-one now. No, actually you're fifty this year. Oh. Or forty-seven.

Speaker 1 5:15

So then I shouldn't think I'm like seventy? Yeah. And so then you're like, I've well, I've there's days when I feel like seventy, but I'm turning sixty this year.

Speaker 5:24

So I'm gonna pretend I'm turning seventy.

Speaker 1 5:26

Okay.

Speaker 5:27

Because I was kinda I was starting to I was focusing on going, uh, January came, and I was thinking sixty is such a nice sounding number. Yeah. Forty is a nice sounding number, too. But I got a little down about it. So this is the solution. That's right. I'm gonna until April, when I turn 60, I'm gonna think I'm turning seventy. And then go, actually, I'm turning sixty.

Speaker 1 5:48

Well, and you know, it's interesting. Between sixty and seventy, that's when your uh body loses the bulk of its muscle mass and things. So if you're at seventy, then you've got nothing to lose. You've it's already happened.

Speaker 6:03

I didn't have to go through it.

Speaker 1 6:04

You didn't have to go through that.

Speaker 6:06

Well, we're back in the box. We were away from the box for the holidays, and we were in Pender last week introducing our episode, and here we are. It kind of feels good.

Speaker 1 6:15

Yes. Well, it does. It feels familiar, but uh we it's almost like uh we took some time off. It's like being retired, but not really retired. It's kind of like me, I guess, where I'm retired, but uh you know, I was in a classroom yesterday.

Speaker 6:34

So but you had a good break?

Speaker 1 6:36

It was a good break. Uh it was just nice uh slowing down a bit and uh just celebrating with the family. I love playing game board games.

Speaker 6:45

I'm so happy that board games have a bit of a revival going on, right? I think it gives me hope for the future.

Speaker 1 6:51

Wow. There's um a place called Strategies in uh Vancouver that has if anything you want in board games, uh that's the place to go. And there's some really great board games out there. Um one of my favorites right now is Wingspan. Yeah.

Speaker 7:09

And it's we tried that out with you. Yes.

Speaker 1 7:11

Yes. There's a lot of people.

Speaker 7:14

Listeners, if you had seen Roy, he did a lot of preparation work to uh to teach us this game because there's a lot to learn on the case.

Speaker 1 7:20

There's a lot of working pieces to it. And uh it's it's it's not like Monopoly where you just step in and say, Okay, I'll give you your money, you pass go, roll the dice. Uh there's there's a lot more to it. But it's um I think they call them engine building games where you just add on and add on and add on that. Um I I loved it. And you learn about birds. You do. You learn about birds and uh where where they come from and the their wing spans, because that's the name of the game. And uh what they eat. And uh I don't know.

Speaker 7:53

I just like in this AI world, online world, people are turning back to board games, people are buying vinyl, they're going outside doing things. I think there is a bit of a resistance to too much online. And I've actually discovered because I tend to watch the news a lot, so the algorithms always send me the news, right? And it's that could bring you down right now. Yes, it can. But I I a hobby of mine has always been astronomy. So because I've been looking at more of those videos, I'm getting all this just great stuff about space and science and our where we are in the universe. But I even I did not think of this in this way. You know the odds that we are even here alive? You know what they are? They're one in ten to the power of two point six million. That's one followed by two point six million zeros, my friend. Wow. So we need to every day celebrate. Celebrate being alive. Like it's incredible, right? Like that that's right, yeah, exactly. So I like that kind of stuff. And it helps it's a diversion for me from other things. And uh we are moving on. And today we actually are gonna focus more on retirement because it's where we're at, but getting ready for retirement.

Speaker 1 9:04

Yeah, th there's a lot to get ready for retirement when you're teaching.

Speaker 9:09

And it's getting ready for retirement from the profession of teaching, as we keep saying, not retiring from life, right? Yes. You've got so many pursuits in life that you want to keep working on and doing and finding new things to do. And a lot of people start brand new careers even, right, when they've left that one profession. But we do have a pension plan that helps us pursue those things, right? That's right. So we're going on a field trip. Oh, yeah. We're gonna go to someone that really knows her her stuff. Okay. She's an icon in North Vancouver, Linda Watson.

Speaker 1 9:39

Oh, yes, I know.

Speaker 9:40

Right? Like an amazing political activist, president of the union, but also very knowledgeable about the pension.

Speaker 1 9:48

She's a pension advisor.

Speaker 9:50

Yeah, and she she knows so much, and she's just she's been part of my life a long time. I started teaching and she was a big part of the union in North Vancouver, but also just an amazing teacher, an amazing person, and someone that I think no matter where you're at in your career, there's gonna be advice in today's episode that's gonna help you prepare for retirement. So it can be what you and I are hoping to find, right? And we're seeking that and you know, realizing, hey, I'm alive. It's one in point two ten times point two point six million, zero's following that, and that's I'm pretty happy to be here. That's right. And I'm happy I got a pension to support me along the way. What me too? Yeah. And uh so let's listen to our conversation and go on a field trip with Linda Watson.

Speaker 1 10:35

I can't wait.

Speaker 10:42

So here we are, Linda. Thank you for joining us. And we'll do a formal introduction in a minute, but we always like to start off with ABC one, two, three. Okay, it's a bit of an icebreaker. So I'll do the ABCs, right? Okay. And you'll do the one, two, three. Did I get it right or it's the other way around?

Speaker 1 10:57

It was the other way around. We always get it backwards.

Speaker 10:59

Okay. Roy, ABCs.

Speaker 1 11:02

All right. Uh A, defined contribution or defined benefit?

Speaker 3 11:08

Oh, defined benefit for sure.

unknown 11:10

Okay.

Speaker 3 11:10

Yeah. Okay. You know what your pension is before you get there.

Speaker 1 11:13

Yes, nice. B passenger or driver?

Speaker 3 11:20

Definitely a driver. Oh, we get we get a lot.

Speaker 11:23

Yeah, we do. Have we have we met anyone who said passenger?

Speaker 1 11:27

No. We don't get around with people like that. Uh C, museum or art gallery.

Speaker 3 11:35

Oh, museum. Yeah. Put me in a museum, I never go out because I have to read everything. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 11:41

Okay. Okay. One, two, three. What was your favorite book as a child? Did you have one?

Speaker 3 11:47

Nancy Drew Mysteries.

Speaker 11:49

What brought you to those?

Speaker 3 11:51

Just getting the first one, and then there were like how many in the series? So every birthday, every Christmas, you could get a new one.

Speaker 11:57

Okay. Do you have a favorite teacher from your childhood that stands out?

Speaker 3 12:02

Oh gosh.

Speaker 12:03

One or two? And if you do, would you like to share?

Speaker 3 12:06

Well, there are many. I liked all my teachers. I I only had a conflict with one teacher in high school, and my favorite teacher connected to that memory is the school counselor who showed me how to stand up for myself. It was a lesson I never forgot.

Speaker 12:20

Wow. And then if you had one favorite piece of music that you had to listen to, and it's the only piece of music you can listen to. You're on Deserted Island. You don't have to listen to it over and over again. You can, you know, stop and look at the sharks once in a while. Is there a piece that you would choose that stands out?

Speaker 3 12:38

Oh, let's see now. What do I hum in my head the most? Probably anything from Neil Diamond.

unknown 12:47

Okay, okay.

Speaker 3 12:48

Like Songsung Blue can stay with me for days.

Speaker 12:50

Yeah, yeah, classic. So we have Linda Watson here, who has done many things over her years. I know you started as a teacher. Did you start in North Van?

Speaker 3 13:01

I did. I always taught in North Van.

Speaker 13:03

Okay, and what did you teach in North Van?

Speaker 3 13:05

I taught a lot of grade seven, mostly elementary classroom actually, starting with grade seven and six, seven.

Speaker 2 13:12

Yeah.

Speaker 3 13:12

And I started in an open area school, which was challenging and very cool and a great way to start because we totally team taught the program to these good six, seven kids, or five of us, in a big open area, totally open. I don't know, I don't think they make them that open anymore.

Speaker 13:29

Yeah, it does. But for us, only the two schools that remain that are like that in North Band. That's because it's the primary classes that are in the open area, not intermediate.

Speaker 3 13:36

Yes. Well, this was at Blue Ridge Elementary, which was all three pods were open. And we team taught everything. Now, for and there were two beginners on the team and three experienced teachers who um helped us so much. It was an excellent way to start your career because you had these experienced experts right next door. If you ever run into a trouble into trouble, you could um get some advice from them, they'd help you out. We cooperatively planned units, shared our kids around, and it was fun.

Speaker 2 14:07

Yeah.

Speaker 3 14:08

Um we were all young enough to go to the pub on Fridays. That was helpful for my teaching talent to be in the pub on Fridays.

Speaker 14:16

Pub Health.

Speaker 3 14:17

Funding experience, yeah.

Speaker 14:18

Exactly.

Speaker 3 14:18

Um then at one point that area morphed into a 234 family grouping, grade 234, also really fun. My first foray into primary kids. Excellent team there. Um, then I did more elementary, mostly grade seven. And at some point I went off to the NVTA office to become local president for a few years. Yeah. Yeah. When I came back, I went into high school. Okay. And I did learning assistance because I had special ed background. By then, after my when I took my postgrad courses, I did a lot of special ed. So I did learning assistance in English in high school. That was fun. Then I went off to the BCTF, and I came back to elementary and did elementary learning assistance.

unknown 15:02

Yeah.

Speaker 15:02

What what did you notice different about being in a high school after second after elementary?

Speaker 3 15:07

They're very different.

Speaker 15:08

Yeah.

Speaker 3 15:09

More different than I anticipated. In high school, your blocks of kids rotate through you, so you don't get to know them as well as quickly.

Speaker 2 15:18

Right.

Speaker 3 15:18

You hardly ever see a parent.

Speaker 2 15:20

Yeah.

Speaker 3 15:20

That was strange to me.

Speaker 2 15:21

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 15:22

It's really quite cool meeting the parents and getting some insight into their kids that way. And it's more of a partnership when you're in elementary with you and you, the par and the parents helping out the kids. So in high school, didn't see parents, and the kids were fascinating. Um young adults, they were wild and crazy, and they grew up about the end of grade 10, which is kind of cool. So by 11, they're actually human again. Yeah. But high school kids have a far greater ability to get into serious trouble in their lives with the decisions.

Speaker 15:59

That they make. It is. A lot of elementary teachers don't really understand what it's like to be a secondary teacher. Secondary secondary teachers are the same, right? There's a lot of misunderstanding, and the people thinking the grass is greener sometimes, right? Certainly heard that over my career.

Speaker 1 16:13

Yeah, yeah. Well, it it it's interesting because I know in the family of schools they try to get the high school teachers and the elementary school teachers to work together, especially if the elementary school. The dog back barking is fantastic. The elementary school is uh a feeder for the but it it's tough because there the worlds are are so different.

Speaker 16:37

What's the name of your dog again?

Speaker 1 16:38

Buffy.

Speaker 16:39

Buffy. Yeah. Buffy's nice and quiet now. Well done, Buffy. What a cutie. So I was talking, I I said it's I have down, I I often think of you as a political activist. You see that as yourself, as your roles over the years.

Speaker 3 16:53

Yes, as it turned out.

Speaker 16:54

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Was it something you thought you'd aspire to, or just happened along the way?

Speaker 3 17:01

I guess with many things we do in our lives, things happen. Yeah. And you pick up on them and you find what suits you or something you're good at, and off you go. And for me, it started in that very first teaching team I told you about the grade six seven team. The experienced teachers in our group were local association activists. They were interested in the local executive. So they got the two new teachers on the team that year to be one of our staff reps the very first year. Of course, we knew nothing. And one of them was planning to run for local president. Ilsa Link was planning to run for local president that first spring. So she convinced me to run for local secretary. And I don't think I was off the local executive again for like 30 years. You just get started and off you go. You do.

Speaker 17:50

You get once they pull you in, you can't get out again, right? It's like Godfather. It was kind of similar for me at Longsdale, my first six months there, and Chuck Dixon was there. And he had started bargaining. And I remember halfway through the year we needed a new chief staff rep. I mean, I was 24 years old. We need a new chief staff rep. Everyone looks around, suddenly everyone seems to leave the room, and I'm left alone. You're it that started it all, right? But I'm grateful for that along the way. Um so you got involved that way, and then you ended up. I mean, in in North Van, the name Linda Watson is iconic. It's it's an overused word sometimes, but you are an icon, and you you know, people still there are people who teach in this district who never even were here when you were here, and they know Linda Watson. Oh my. You do. You permeate the walls of this district, and it's all good, and it's wonderful to have you here today and talk about, and we're eventually gonna get more into your later career was more to do with pensions. Um there's one story though, I just want to know. You hear these iconic stories about people, and I have this one story about you, and I want to actually, I've never asked you if this is really true. And I it was passed around through the rumor mill. And it goes back to maybe your Blue Ridge days when the the um principal at the time had it, he he he wanted you to not wear um pants. Jeans. Jeans, right? And did you show up the next day in a in a maybe a a gown or a wedding dress? Is this true? And if it is true, tell me it's not true, but if it is true, I would love you to share that story.

Speaker 3 19:26

That is a true story. Oh my goodness, that was a long time ago. Now, if we go back even further, when we were in high school, when I was in high school, girls um couldn't even wear pants to school, you had to wear a dress, and then in the swinging sixties, um dress lengths got shorter and shorter, and principals took to measuring how high your dress was above the knee when you kneeled on the floor. I mean, it was all way too much, but things evolve over time. So the red letter day came in high school when girls could wear pants. They could actually wear pants to school, but it had to be a pant suit. Wow. So a matching jacket with your pants or a matching vest with a tasteful blouse were permitted. Wow. Yeah, so that's where we came from. Anyway, when we started by the time I started teaching, things were much more free, but somehow women's attire in school was scrutinized more than the men on staff. So um one day I had a particularly active day planned with the kids and I wore jeans. Not a pretty new pair of blue jeans, I must say. And um, this was an open area where the men commonly came in tracksuits with rips and holes in the knees because they were pretty active fellas. And the principal made remarks about my jeans, that I had worn jeans to school, and maybe I shouldn't do that. And I said, Well, you know, it's an art day. We're on the floor doing our giant murals, and we've got PE, so I'm outside doing PE, and it's one of those days, so I wore my jeans. Well, you really shouldn't wear your jeans. So, and this, yeah, I was quite new in the profession then. So I went home, thought this over, and I pulled out my white ruffled eyelet cotton embroidered gown, floor-length gown with the frilly, loopy sleeves, and I thought it was quite attractive. It was it was basically a ball gown. And I wore that to school the next day, and I pinned a sign on my back that said, No P.E. today.

Speaker 21:30

Wow.

Speaker 3 21:31

So I wore this all day, and I walked past the principal as often as I could during the day. He said nothing. Yeah. Um, at the end of the school day, uh, we ran into each other and he said, Linda, I know when I've been had. And then he walked on.

unknown 21:47

Oh wow.

Speaker 3 21:49

So he didn't complain about my jeans after that, and I did wear them again, of course.

Speaker 21:53

Where did that boldness come from within you? Being a new young teacher. Most people wouldn't have had that within them, they would have had to suffer inside.

Speaker 3 22:00

I suppose. I'm c I don't know. Am I a quiet re r rebel? I'm I'm not normally rude. No. But I have I guess I have, you know, personal bo boundaries. If you tread on me, I'm gonna say something. Which you need if you're gonna be in the union, right?

Speaker 22:14

Yeah, yeah. Thank you for sharing. And then from as because you said you were local president, but you also became second VP of the BCTF, right? Right. So what was that experience?

Speaker 3 22:24

Yeah, that was fascinating. And I did that. Um I'd been on the provincial executive while I was local president. I also was on the BCTF executive for many years. Um and doing both at the same time was an interesting juggling of your time commitments and workload. But it was all related work. And we had been doing local, we had just started full scope local bargaining at that time when I was first local president. So the BCTF was a tremendous support for developing the very first collective agreements. All of that foundational work was done during that time in the late from 1988 to 1994, I guess we had local bargaining. Um and then I got on the BCTF executive, which um happened concurrently with being president, and then after I was back in the classroom for a while, I ran for second vice president of BCTF, which was a full-time position. And I went there for three years. During that time I got involved in on the provincial bargaining team, because local bargaining had been one of the things I enjoyed the most, and we built in North Fan a tremendous collective agreement. Yeah, it had some really amazing stuff in it. Dealing with a very um, I guess humane and supportive school board who bargained hard, but if we made a good case for what teachers needed to support their kids in the classroom, they listened to us. And that was a good professional relationship we had at that time.

Speaker 24:03

And they were educators who understood what you were trying to achieve. I think that's the difference.

Speaker 3 24:07

Their bargaining team, yeah, yeah. Mostly um school, mostly principals and HR people from the board office. So off I went to BCTF, got involved in provincial bargaining, which was a whole different kettle of fish and not nearly as much fun and much more challenging. But I think the highlight of that time at BCTF in those three years, I was on the second provincial bargaining team. Um the first team had a difficult time making headway with the collective agreement, and the second team we also had difficulty, but by then um the NDP government had some goals of its own for teacher bargaining on a from a public policy perspective. So they wanted to really put some resources into working with primary children so they'd get a good start in school. And they wanted to see primary class sizes reduced across the province and were prepared to fund that. So that helped us achieve primary class size limits across the province that were really low, like 20 and 22, depending on the age of the kids. And we meanwhile, we concurrently were pushing for more rights for teachers on call, because they were in a sorry state with a sorry salary at the time, and more supports for specialist positions that would help the kids with special learning needs. They wanted primary class size, we wanted those two things, and after much haggling and back and forth, we got all three. So we got primary class size province-wide, we got staffing ratios for non-enrolling teachers, like librarians, learning assistants teachers, English second language teachers, counselors, um, and we got improved salary provisions and rights for hiring rights for teachers on call. So that was a red letter day when we got all of that. Meanwhile, in our local bargaining in years prior to that, we had achieved primary and intermediate and secondary class size. We had all that stuff already in the local, and some good special needs support provisions. Um, but the provincial primary class size numbers were better than ours, so that was wonderful. Then a few years later, the government changed. Um the government of the day decided to strip those provisions out of the collective agreement. We'll remember that.

Speaker 2 26:36

Yes.

Speaker 3 26:38

They legislated a contract with no class size, none of that stuff. It all disappeared. And we put out to our members a copy of the collective agreement with black lines all through it, page after page after page after page. Many, many things.

Speaker 26:54

Yeah, 15 years that was taken away. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 26:57

All that work, all that effort that teachers put in to support that collective bargaining was gone.

Speaker 27:05

What was the mood the mood in the office at that time must have just been, I mean, uh your heart and soul was in that collective bargaining.

Speaker 3 27:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're seeing what's been blacked out.

Speaker 27:15

Like wow.

Speaker 3 27:16

Yeah, the news came over the airways, and anyone who was in the office at the time just sat down and cried.

Speaker 27:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 27:24

That's what we did. Same in many staff rooms, of course, around the province. Yeah. It was devastating. Because the um, you know, uh you think that in Canada you've got these uh charter rights and access to free collective bargaining is one of them. Well, they legislated the contract out of existence. Um so that uh hit like a ton of bricks. And we the BCTF took the whole issue to the courts. The appeal took many, many years. And our local was one of them involved in preparing the case. So they sent uh Brian Porter, BCTF staffer, to our local who went through our archives with us, and um we sat down and went through all the things that had been stripped out of North Van and the history behind bargaining and all of that went into the Supreme Court submission, along with many other locals that had been chosen because of certain parts of their collective agreements that really stood out. In in the end, um the case went all the way to the Supreme Court of um and of Canada and we won.

Speaker 28:26

2016. Yeah, yeah. We won.

Speaker 3 28:28

Everything came back. So now we reprinted the collective agreement with all the language back in again. Yeah, and it was it was amazing. But there were some details to work out between the BCTF and BCPC, the provincial bargaining agent for the school boards, about how to implement things. And we lost some ground there. I'm still not happy with how the it ended up because the really firm class size limits weren't there, and now there's all kinds of compensation and loopholes that don't make us happy. But we did regain a lot of ground and it was quite a victory that we celebrated at the time.

Speaker 29:03

It was uh I always go back to that November 2016 because it was a crazy three days because the first thing that happened, Trump got elected.

Speaker 3 29:13

Yeah.

Speaker 29:14

The next day, Leonard Cohen died. So I mean, I was so depressed and sad. Yes. The third day, the Supreme Court gave our language facts. So there you go. There was and as Leonard Cohen always said, there's a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in, and it kind of fit that we got that. And it shows you you just can't give up, right? You can't give up and you can't have yourself in this doom state all the time, right? Even now in this world, right? You can't go, oh, it's hopeless. No, it's not.

Speaker 3 29:42

No.

Speaker 29:42

Yeah. That's right.

Speaker 3 29:43

But anytime and and we're lucky, so lucky to live in Canada and in BC, where everyone knows what the laws are, the laws are transparent and um they're enforceable. You can take a case and expect to win.

Speaker 29:57

It's it's it's it doesn't take time, but it you will, yeah. Though I worry now with the notwithstanding clause being throwing around so much provincial governments, right?

Speaker 3 30:07

In uh in Alberta, it's just out of control there now.

Speaker 30:10

Yeah, yeah. And then Roy, I will let you jump in in a minute.

Speaker 3 30:13

Oh, right. Yeah.

Speaker 30:14

I just want to know how the final kind of act of your career where you got into pensions, and what what brought that about where you became um a vice chair of the pension board, correct?

Speaker 3 30:24

And chair.

Speaker 30:25

And chair of the huge impact that you getting involved and that has had on members. So tell us about that that part.

Speaker 3 30:35

Well, that's uh that's kind of a family story, really. Um concurrent with all the bargaining stuff and local president stuff I was doing. Many years before that, I became interested in pensions as a field of study and of interest because my uncle, Bruce Watson, was uh the pension staffer at BCTF for quite a long time. He'd been a social studies teacher and he applied to be on staff at BCTF. He did um local, general local support, but then began to specialize in doing pension work there. And he was um the BCTF rep on an advisory committee to the government's teacher pension plan board and sat on that board as the only teacher. Uh so when we when we'd have, and he lived in Burnaby, we lived in North Van, I was a teenager, you know. So we'd come for family dinners, and the after dinner conversation would be my dad talking about pharmacy because he was a pharmacist and he was the president of the BC Pharmacy Association and later the Canadian Pharmacy Association. So he was all involved in negotiating rates and drug schedules with government, and he worked on a Royal Commission for BC pharmacy practice and Canadian stuff. Meanwhile, my uncle was head over heels with pensions and bargaining stuff for BCTF. So dad would talk pharmacy, Bruce would talk pensions, and they'd go back and forth, each declaring that the other's topic was really quite boring. Who cares about pensions? Who cares about pharmacy rates? Um but I beg, you know, I began to see that these were passions they had in pretty interesting fields when you got down to the details. So many years later, I get on the BCDF executive, they need an executive member to liaise with the pension committee that the Federation had. Um, every executive member had one or two committees under their wing. They would go to the meetings, report back to the exec, and kind of forward their projects. So I volunteered right away for pensions. That's where it started. And then when I was a second vice president, um must have been in between collective bargaining rounds. Anyway, we um started negotiating with the NDP government of the day on the joint trust for the teacher pension plan. So previously our pensions were in total control of the government. Right. And we had someone like Bruce Watson there advising on behalf of teachers, but the government made all the decisions. Teacher Pension Board was all their people except for Bruce. Um but the NDP government wanted to offer the public sector unions the chance to jointly control their pension, which made sense because we fund half of it.

Speaker 2 33:23

Yeah.

Speaker 3 33:24

And it's foundational to our members' economic interest to have some say in their pension. So um each of the public sector unions, that's teachers, college instructors, um, public service workers, and municipal workers, um, police, fire, municipal staff, all oh, and and uh QP, the our school board support staff are part of municipal pension plan. So they each were negotiating with government at the same time for joint control of pensions, setting up joint pension boards, joint decision making, commitments on funding, all of that. And um I was as second vice president part of the negotiating team for BCTF to set that up. And it called for joint pension boards to be set up where we would name the members of the plan would name five people, and government would name five people, and they'd have equal votes. Well, this was revolutionary. This was our dream come true. We'd had joint control of pensions in the BCTF policy book for like 60 years, 50 years, and had been slowly working toward it planting the seed in government's mind and so on. And there we had achieved it, and I was one of the five trustees named to represent Plan Members. And Uncle Bruce, the pension staffer whose dining room conversation started all of that years before, was named as the retired members rep to that same pension board. So that's where it came from.

Speaker 1 34:58

All right. Well, because we're talking about retirement, how has retirement been for you?

Speaker 3 35:05

Retirement is fabulous. You two know that.

Speaker 35:09

Yeah, it is, you do. It's all it's cracked up to be. It really is.

Speaker 3 35:12

It is. It's a suitable and much loved reward at the end of a long teaching career. Um, it's fun, you get the gift of time. You get the gift of time.

Speaker 2 35:24

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 35:25

And everyone I talk to who's retired says, I don't know how I ever worked. I've got so much to do, and now I have time to get it done. And the bonus is every month someone deposits money into my bank account.

Speaker 1 35:39

Yes.

Speaker 3 35:39

I don't have to do anything, it just appears.

Speaker 1 35:42

And all year round.

unknown 35:44

Yes.

Speaker 3 35:45

Twelve times a year. Yes. Absolutely.

Speaker 35:48

And even, I mean, it's not, it's not guaranteed, but these little cost of living bonuses appear. Wow.

Speaker 3 35:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 35:54

Didn't have to fight for that or go on strike for that. There it is. Yeah.

Speaker 3 35:59

We did pay for that. Like our BC Teachers Pension Plan is arguably the best in Canada for teachers because we have a really good pension formula. That's how much credit you get for each year you work. Plus, we have the best cost of living protection in the country for teachers. It's not guaranteed if there's a special part of the fund that's reserved for cost of living, and if it really went down bad investments over many years or something, and it couldn't afford full COLAS one year, then you wouldn't get full protection. But that hasn't happened yet. It's been full protection every year, and nobody else in Canada can say that. Even when they have lots of money in their inflation um fund, they have limits in how much can go. So maybe they're going to get full Canadian cola minus one percent or full cola up to a certain limit. That's quite common in other provinces.

Speaker 36:59

Well, even Ontario doesn't have that.

Speaker 3 37:05

It's a powerhouse fund because of their numbers. Yes. Yes, but even they don't have full protection on all dollars of their pension.

Speaker 1 37:14

So we have a lot of new teachers starting out. What would you be what would be your recommendation be for them in looking at retirement? Because retirement seems to be so far away. But what would be something that would stand out for you just to give them a nugget of information?

Speaker 3 37:35

Uh yes, I think young teachers don't think about their pension every day, and I don't expect them to. I certainly didn't when I started out. No, it was very far away. Every May or June we get that little blue and white members benefit statement in our mailboxes at school that tells us about our pension plan. Of course, in the early years I'd look at that, and my my retirement year was like in the year 2000s, and this was only 1974.

Speaker 38:01

I started in 1990 and it said, you know, 2024, whatever. That's that's like a science fiction book.

Speaker 3 38:07

That's like after Haley's Comet was coming back. Who knew if you'd even be here? So it didn't make register much with me. Of course, as you get older, it's going to matter more and more. And I actually saw a comment from a retired teacher recently who said, you know, when I was a young teacher, I thought, boy, those contributions are way too high. That's too big a deduction. But now that I'm retired and drawing my cost of living protected pension, it was worth it. So I think teachers will find that. And the more you teach, the more you realize the value that it's going to have for you over time. It's a real it's this, you know, in these days of teacher shortages, we're crying for teachers on call, we're crying for new teachers to come into the profession. Having this really solid pension plan is a great retention tool for school districts. So government should be supporting good public sector pensions to keep talented people in the field long term.

Speaker 39:08

Don't you find people who don't have a pension plan who may make much more than teachers do because they're young, they don't put it aside actually. Right? And sometimes I I get this jealousy from those friends that have been in that world. Oh, you got your teacher's pension, aren't you lucky? Well, they could have put it aside. They made more money than I did, but they did not. So it it kind of in even when you're not thinking about it and you're 25, 26, you know that the pension plan is thinking about it.

Speaker 3 39:36

Yes, yeah, that's true. I think, yes, for our qualifications, our salaries are not high. Yeah. But we have a couple of things that many other people uh envy, which is for the most part job security with fair provisions in case you run into trouble in your practice. Um, and we have this pension plan. So, yeah, we are trading those off on the immediate dollars today. And, you know, as you get on and head for your retirement, you find that trade-offs worthwhile, even if you wonder when you're younger. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 40:12

So, what's the ideal time to start preparing for retirement?

Speaker 3 40:19

Um, almost anytime. I think, you know, knowing more about your pension is good anytime because some of those decisions you make when you're young will impact your pension later. A prime example is taking a MAT leave. Two-thirds of our per actually three-quarters of our profession on the new entry data are now women. Yes. It's 75-25-ish in the pension plan. So most of our members are women. Many of them will take maternity leaves during their teaching career. And if you the best thing you can do is uh take your MAT leave, enjoy it, get your subplan on top of that, and purchase your pension service for the time that you're off on MAT leave or child care leave. But for MATLEA in particular, there's a rule in the plan that the employer has to contribute their share of your pension premiums. You contribute your share, they have to contribute their share if it's a MAT leave or a compassionate care leave. Umce, if you're not returning to work after your MAT leave and you're taking a child care leave, they school board doesn't have to contribute anymore, but you can purchase that leave too. You just have to pay double premiums, theirs and yours. But financially, it always pays to buy your MAT leave because the school board's going to pay for half of it.

unknown 41:41

Okay.

Speaker 3 41:42

And I talked to some teachers now who are close to retirement, and they're saying, Yeah, I had three kids, and at the time I didn't have the money, I didn't buy the MAT leave. If you need to borrow the money or take it out of your RRSP and transfer it right over, do it. Because uh you get double the bang for your buck. Yeah. So you start planning early, including in those early years, on things like buying your Mat Leave, taking another leave of absence. Maybe you want to purchase that one too, although it's more expensive. Um, and start planning well before you have to retire. I actually got an email from a teacher the other day, and this was uh end of November, I guess, and she said, I'm I'm planning to retire in January. What should I do? Okay. Where do I start? So that's a crash course in your pension planning. Yeah. Well ahead of time. You should be looking at your anticipated retirement income. That's your teacher pension. Uh, and there's some decisions there about do you take a joint life, how much, single life, guarantee period. There's lots to know about that, so it's not a simple decision. Um, what's your Canada pension income going to be? As you get closer to age 60, the CPP information you get starts to tell you how much they predict your CPP will be. And to get that, you should register with My Service Canada account online. Go to the Service Canada website, set up your My Service Canada account. That's homework number one. And on in there, you'll also find a OIS information, how much your old age security will be. Which only depends on how long you've lived in Canada. You don't contribute to it, it just is part of general revenues, old age security. So those are your three main sources of income. And meanwhile, I hope when you started teaching, you set up an RRSP and a TFSA. Yes. Because RRSP gives you a tax deduction for the money you put in. It grows interest free, uh, or at least tax free, and when you take it out, you pay taxes. Yep.

Speaker 44:00

Had a lower income, probably.

Speaker 3 44:01

Yes. Yes. But when you're retired, your total income's lower. Which is part of your planning. It's going to be lower, yes. But here we are. We're all managing. Yes. There are things you can do to manage. And the TFSA, once you've if if you max out your RSP, sock money into your TFSA because although you don't get a tax deduction now, the investment earnings are tax-free when you take them out later. So that's a really good vehicle too. And start going to pension workshops and seminars. The BC Retired Teachers Association offers online and in-person workshops. The Teacher Pension Plan has online webinars. The BCTF offers some online pension workshops too. And the pension plan website has print resources you can read to learn about your pension. Many I give some of the online workshops for the BC Retired Teachers Association or Zoom workshops, and I also go out to locals and do presentations. And invariably I well, I tell them go to more than one. One's not enough. So much information comes at you. It's overwhelming. It's like stream of consciousness, because we're trying to pack it all into an hour and a half or something. You won't get it all the first time. So you've got to go two, three, four times before it all starts to make sense.

Speaker 1 45:28

Yeah. Well, and I think that's a really good idea. I mean, if you if you were to look at uh, for example, when to take your CPP, you'll get a hundred different variations of why you should or why you shouldn't. And uh what it really comes down to is you know how much you need the money. Yeah.

Speaker 3 46:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's um when to take your CPP, because now you can take it anytime between age 60 to 70. Well, that didn't used to be a decision point, it just started at 65, that was that. Same with old age security. Now it can be delayed from 65 to 70. You can't get it earlier than that. Uh and those time points intersect with when you want to quit teaching. Uh, you can even take your CPP before you start teaching if you want. You can start it at 60 and teach forever. There's no retirement age anymore. Yeah. No required retirement age, that is. Um, but then you have to run into tax implications, of course, if you've got too much income. Heaven forbid one should have too much income. I always kind of laugh at that advice. You're gonna pay taxes. Well, yeah, but you're not paying 100% of your income.

Speaker 47:03

And that's what I find some people are waiting for that magic number of an income that's exactly what they had as a teacher. They put off retirement. Like there's no magic number. And and when you do get that amount, it's often apples and oranges. Like you're people look at it and go, okay, what's that what am I getting now? But you're you're getting tax less. You're not having the deductions that happen. So you need to work out what the net is going to be compared to what the net was when you were teaching, and you find out it's actually pretty good. It's manageable. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 47:30

You're not paying union dues anymore, you're not paying EI. Yeah. Um, you're not paying CPP premiums if you're not working anymore. You're not paying that big pension premium once you start your pension.

Speaker 2 47:43

Yeah.

Speaker 3 47:43

That's a big chunk of your income. So your take home is relatively healthier than you might think.

Speaker 47:50

I find people are surprised. Yes.

Speaker 3 47:52

The only caution to getting too much income between your RSP when you convert it to an income fund and your TPP, OAS, CPP is you could face an OAS drawback, old age security drawback if your in taxable income is too high. Uh but again, that's uh rich people problem.

Speaker 1 48:13

Yeah. Well, problem to have. Yes. Well, I could remember um looking at my uh pension plan in two different ways. One would be I had a horrible day, the class is just driving me crazy. So I want to go online. When can I retire? And then I would have a year where I had the amazing classes. Oh, I think I can do another five years. So it's kind of sometimes it's just relative to the frame of mind that you're in. Yeah.

Speaker 3 48:42

Yeah, it's true. I do talk to teachers who are wondering about their retirement when they've had a particularly challenging class or not enough support for the kids in their in their care. They worry about that. It's very stressful. And it is very stressful if you've got a challenging mix and a lack of support. Um, and that does drive people out of the profession, there's no doubt about it. Um, and yet, as you say, you can have a year where everything gels and the class is great, and um you just have had a great year and you feel like you could do this job forever. Because what a what a wonderful thing it is to be able to devote your working life to helping kids. Yes. To help them be the best they can be and learn as much as they can. They're so excited when they learn something new, those primary kids. Uh, it's a joy to be able to do that and say, That's my job. I can do this.

Speaker 49:35

I found when I was in the office some people who had health concerns would often say, Oh, I I need to retire now. And that to me, I always had to make sure that should not be the reason you retire. Let's deal with those health concerns. But that that to me works against the whole point of it all.

Speaker 3 49:50

Yeah, yeah. And luckily, as a BCTF member, you're contributing to a salary indemnity plan all the time that you work, which and when you run out of sick leave with your school district, you can apply to draw that salary indemnity plan benefit and stay in the profession. Because while you're on SIP, your pension premiums are being paid for you and you're getting pension credit. You don't want to retire pre prematurely if you have access to that kind of support when you medically need it. And the plans are designed to help you out that way. You'll get your pension credit, you can retire at and um have a bigger pension as a result. Oh, another thing you can do to boost your pension, there's a thought, is while you're young, work on your credentials. So you've got a five-year degree when you come into teaching. Well, look in your local collective agreement, there might be a PB plus 15 where you can take extra coursework at the three and four hundred and five hundred level and get um a higher salary lift if you complete that extra 15 units of study, or get your master's degree. In some districts, the step between PB plus 15 and master's is small, because there's a big bonus, like in North Van, big bonus from category five to plus fifteen, and a smaller jump if you finish your master's. Um for others, the big jump comes at the master's level. There's a very small plus fifteen appreciation, and then the big jump is the master's. So look into that, take those courses, evenings or in in the summer. It's really worth really worth doing that. It helps your pension so much because your pension plans best is based on your best five years of income earnings. So before you hit your best your last five years, get the max credential you can manage. Yeah.

Speaker 51:48

That's great advice. Yeah. And in 2018, the pension rules changed. I know some people are still in both plans. I was in both plans. Like I was 85% in the old plan, 15% in the new plan. So can you outline why those happened in 2018 and how it took away things? I'm because I know when I first looked at that pension statement in 1990, it was worked on this magic number 90, right? That was kind of that was the point. When you get age plus years of service, it adds up to 90, you would could retire without a deduction. So why, what was the reason for all that?

Speaker 3 52:18

Oh, yeah, that's a good question. Um the old old plan, that's uh pre-January 1, 2018, all that service is old plan. Any of your teaching from January 2018 on is new plan. It's essentially one pension plan and two different ways of calculating your service and your pension benefit. The old plan was um integrated with Canada Pension. So when the teacher pension plan started on this um defined benefit formula it has now, um, when the Canada Pension Plan came in, they wanted to make sure that teachers didn't pay too much in premiums. So you were paying a premium deduction for your teacher plan, and now CPP was starting, and you had to pay for that too. And Canada Pension covered a certain amount of everybody's income, whether you're in teaching or any other work in the country, you pay into CPP, up to a certain maximum annual income. Let's pick a number, 60,000. So your first 60,000 of income is covered by CPP, the rest of your income is not. You get no pension credit on money above that. And every year that number goes up, whatever the limit is. So the teacher pension board decided to reduce the premium paid into the teacher plan up to that salary amount, 60,000, say. They reduced it. And you paid a higher premium on your earnings above 60,000. This is just a sample number. Um, so you paid more into the teacher plan. That set up a two-tiered pension credit. You got less value from your zero to sixty thousand salary and more value because you paid more into it on your top salary, because Canada Pension was going to help you out with the zero to sixty amount of your salary. They were providing a benefit there that you were also paying for. So that kind of evened out how much teachers paid on the whole of their salary. And if you're a teacher, it's still true today, you will notice your um contribution to Canada pension deduction disappears off your paycheck by end of June, early September.

unknown 54:41

Yeah.

Speaker 3 54:41

Because you've topped out on how much of your salary CPP will cover. You're not paying premiums anymore. Then in the 20 teens, there was a lot of concern from workers who didn't have a company pension that CPP wasn't giving them enough in retirement. It didn't cover enough of their salary at a high enough rate to give you a good pension if you didn't have a company pension at all, like our TPP. So the Canadian Um Federation of Labor and other groups were supporting expanding Canada pension coverage to help people out. And we supported that as teachers because we know the value of a good pension. We were happy for other workers to have the same. So we supported that change. Um, and what CPP did was it enriched the formula for how much you got out of your earnings, and it started gradually bumping up the earning threshold, the earning limit. So it went from say 60,000 to 63 to 65 to 67, whatever it is today, I forget. But it's higher than it was. So that meant in our plan, more of your salary was covered by lower teacher pension credits. Right. Because that reduction on your premiums to match CPP was still in place. Now more of your salaries covered at the lower rate, and less of your salaries covered at the higher rate for the richer teacher pension. And what we foresaw on the pension board, and this change happened when I was on the pension board, when we started discussing the changing the plan. We wanted to protect teachers from future changes to CPP that would devalue the lower part of your earnings, the amount you're paying into CPP on, while maintaining value at the higher end. So we changed our formula so that now in a teacher plan all your service is valued the same. You don't pay less on your lower dollars, um, and you don't get a bridge benefit. So the second part of the story was on your lower dollars, in those days you could only start CPP at age 65. So on your lower dollars, we put in a bridge benefit. If you retired before 65, you got a little bonus to make up for not being able to start CPP till 65. So if you retired at 60, you got five years of what's called a bridge benefit. And then your lifetime teacher pension carried on along with starting your CPP. And most people started their old age security at 65 also. So that was nice. But with the new f new formula, the um there's a better pension formula on all your service, no matter uh how you paid for it on your income uh premiums. So the bridge benefit doesn't exist anymore, and you can start your CPP at 60 if you want. So they changed that rule too. You can start a dirty, or you can delay it till you're 70 if you don't need the money right away, and then you get a bigger payment. If you start your CPP at 60, it's a smaller payment, which makes sense actuarially.

Speaker 2 57:55

Yes, yeah.

Speaker 3 57:56

So um in the old plan, if you um hit the age 60 before you retired, you had what's called an unreduced pension, meaning that was considered a normal retirement age for people. The earliest you could get your pension was age 55. Um, but if you waited till 60, you would get um no early retirement penalty for going early. And because if you go early, then you're not contributing as many years as someone who retires later, and you're probably going to draw your pension longer.

unknown 58:35

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 58:36

Because you started it earlier. So the actuary says, okay, that's worth 3% a year reduction on your pension or whatever it is. Um so in the old rules, you had to wait till you were 60 to get an unreduced pension, or if you started teaching really young and had 35 years of contributory service, 35 years was also a trigger for, or factor 90, I should say, was also a trigger for an unreduced pension on your old plan. So factor 90 is how old are you when you retire? Let's say you're 58, and how many years of service do you have? If you have what's 90 minus 58? 32? Yeah. 32 years of service. 58 and 32 makes 90, that's called factor 90. You could go at 58 with an unreduced pension, no early retirement penalty, even though you're not 60 yet. But in the new plan, the way the formula works, you have to be 61 to hit unreduced pension. Um because the um formula you get in this new plan is a slightly richer formula. It's actually a better pension for you. Even though the bridge benefit disappears, so from 60 to 65, you don't get that your bridge benefit. But the lifetime amount that stays with you always is better than it used to be under the old plan. It's a richer formula. So as time goes by and new teachers come in and stop having any pre-2018 service, because they started in 2018 on, um, they will have a better pension than we did when we worked. Yeah. Because they're um all in the in the new plan.

Speaker 1:00:16

But Simmy, I just remember when it first came in, some people that you I mean, I wish they had all sat down and had you explain it the way you just did now. That would put a lot of people at ease. Because often people were, I mean, they were 95% in the old plan, but they would say, Oh, I can't retire till I'm 61 now. Right. Yes, they were gonna get a slight little reduction. It was for talking 10 bucks a month or something, you know, but they they focus on that number. So it was just nice the way you put it there.

Speaker 3 1:00:43

It's it's true. It was confusing for people. And I was on the pension board at the time, and we went around the province and did workshops in all the districts trying to explain the formula and how it would work, um, to explain it all to people, and that was helpful, but it's pretty complex. It's a little hard to take it in. And there were some people adversely affected. Um, I'm not saying that this enhanced pension formula in the new plan was roses for everybody. It wasn't. Another thing we were trying to correct in the plan was that the old formula advantaged some plan members over others. This new formula is much more even-handed. Because if you had enough service to retire early before age 60, you got a bridge benefit for a really long time. And the rate at um and people who as time went on, years went on, people were starting to start teaching later.

Speaker 1:01:43

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:01:44

You could no longer get in with a three-year training or a four-year degree. You needed five, you needed maybe some postgrad work. So people were starting the profession later, and fewer of them were hitting factor 90 by age 58, 59. So those people were getting more out of the plan. And people with high salaries were paying um were getting a better formula on their total salary because the pension credits you got because of the CPP overlap on your beginning dollars, those were lower pension credits than at the higher salaries. So they were getting richer pensions than people whose bulk of their salary was below 60,000 or whatever it advanced to over the years. And that was an unfairness built into the plan that we wanted to erase. So the people who lost out on the new formula were early retirees who wanted to go early because they had been able to start at a younger age and took no leaves of absence. And women who took out MAT leaves and child care leaves are not in that group. Okay. They don't get their factor 90 as easily as people who can simply work full-time always from the beginning. Um, so the plans compared to the premiums people put in, it disproportionately advantaged some groups, and that was taken out in the new formula.

Speaker 1:03:12

Yeah, I think I recognize the way things are today. I mean, I I had to get two degrees, but I started teaching at 24 full-time. So I had, you know, I TLC'd for six weeks. Like I thought it was a lot easier for me to get to 90 than most people would, especially now. I think most people, I'd say they're 29, 30, 31 before they're getting their full-time careers. People are starting later, they're taking longer. I mean, there's certainly the jobs, they're getting full-time jobs, but it's they're in their early 30s before they're actually starting to pay that professional salary.

Speaker 3 1:03:43

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's true. And I think it's a societal evolution. Not everyone decides on their profession right away. University is not for everybody. Maybe you decide that later and decide, oh, teaching looks attractive, let's look at that. All those factors came into play in the board, mulling it all over and deciding to make a more equitable plan that in the long run will give teachers a higher pension. And when you combine that with their CPP and their OAS, they're going to be much closer to the take home they earned as a teacher than we were when we retired. So, all in all, I think it's a good benefit for people.

Speaker 1 1:04:24

So, once you retire, what healthcare options are available to you?

Speaker 3 1:04:29

Yes, we get this coddling from our employer as teachers.

Speaker 2 1:04:36

Yes.

Speaker 3 1:04:37

We don't have to scratch and claw for our benefits. Your bargaining teams did that for you years ago. We've had in most school districts fully paid medical services premiums when they used to charge premiums. Now the provincial government doesn't charge medical premiums. You MSP's um an employer tax, it's not part of your deduction anymore. But um extended health benefits are usually 100% paid by the employer. Dental benefits might be, say, 80% of the premiums paid, something like that. Life insurance, you get support with that. So all of those benefits we get while we're working. When you're retired, they all disappear.

Speaker 2 1:05:18

Yes, they do.

Speaker 3 1:05:19

This will be a shock.

Speaker 2 1:05:21

Huge, yeah.

Speaker 3 1:05:22

And that's part of your uh learning as you investigate retirement when you're planning to see if you can afford to retire. Health benefits have to be taken into account for the first time in your working life. You've got to pay for extended health if you want drug coverage, physio, um dental. Dental. And you have to pay for dental separately. That's a separate plan. Travel insurance, you've got to pay for out of country travel insurance, which you should be doing now anyway, if you're venturing across the border or anywhere else. So those and those expenses can really add up. While you're working, you're in a group. Um, in say in extended health, of a whole lot of healthy young people. All those other teachers you work with are mostly healthy young people. And so you can the school board can afford for you a really good plan with like a five million dollar lifetime limit on extended health, that kind of thing. When you retire, you're in a group with a lot of old people like us. Yes. We're not so healthy anymore. Try as we might. We've got a few medications coming in, things like that. Um so your group changes and the level of coverage drops. So um in some extended health plans, you might see $250,000 lifetime limit or $500,000 lifetime limit compared to the $5 million you used to have. So get used to it. Um course, one good thing is if you're in one extended health benefit plan, and I'll talk in a minute about what's out there, um, and you if you top out on it, if you happen to be in a lot of expensive biological medications or something, biologics, um, and you top out, then you can switch plans. You can join one of the other options available to you. They're happy to let you in, and you can start over. Um, as long as you don't have a 60-day gap in coverage, you've got to be watchful for that. So after you retire, you find when you're retiring, you find out from your school board how long does my coverage last? And for most of people at Specific Blue Cross doing their coverage in BC, how long does my coverage last? For most school districts, it's gonna be you're covered to the end of July, if you retire in June or the end of August. A few districts like North Van will cover you to the end of September, the end of the next teaching month after retirement. So if you go in December, you're only covered to the end of January. So check that out, and you want your new coverage to start on that date. So you have to decide do I still want extended health or not? Do I st do I want to take on a dental plan or just self-insure for that? I certainly need a travel plan if I'm going to travel in retirement because that's one reason you retire. You want to go traveling at non-peak times. Um and the premiums can be surprisingly expensive. And if it's a travel plan, the older you get, the more it costs you to travel. That's for sure. So you can look at getting individual trip coverage. When you buy an airline ticket, they'll offer to sell you cancellation insurance. If you buy a cruise, they're going to offer to sell you insurance for your cruise, medical, travel medical, or you can join a group plan. Group plans are commonly cheaper than individual plans. And a group plan will offer you a whole year worth of coverage for which you pay monthly. And the younger you are, the more reasonable that premium will be. And then you can take any number of trips you want during the year. And they're um they're based on uh the length of your trip. So a common policy you might get is 35-year trips. You can take any number of 35-day trips, sorry. 35 years. 35 years.

Speaker 1 1:09:15

I love it. True trip of life.

Speaker 3 1:09:17

Now that's a retirement. 35-day trips. Any number of those you want in a year as long as you come back to Canada in between for a few days. Then off you go again, enjoy yourself. Or 17 days or 62 days, you pick. And some plans allow you to go up to 292-day trips.

Speaker 2 1:09:37

Okay.

Speaker 3 1:09:38

You're doing that incredible around the world thing you saved up for for years. You can even do that on some of these travel plans. You you pay more premiums, of course, for the longer trips. So you're budgeting for that, your extended health, and your dental if that's what you want to buy. Um, extended health plans in retirement, quite comprehensive. You'll get prescription coverage, physiotherapy, podiatry, acupuncture, lots of um paramedicals like that. Uh eyeglasses, hearing aids, diabetic test strips, um, crutches when you need them, um, nursing care, if you need post-hospital nursing care, all kinds of things are covered. Limits on the categories, of course, within those plans, um, but they're pretty comprehensive. And you just have to budget for the premiums. And if you take everything, extended health, dental travel, it's thousands of dollars a year. It is, it just is. That's what your employer is paying for now. Um, and but you're gonna have to budget that in your retirement.

Speaker 1 1:10:42

Yes, that's true. Uh what recommendations would you make for to teachers who uh have retired but have gone back into the classroom as a retired TTOC? Some of them working full-time. Retired. Yes. Why?

Speaker 3 1:10:58

Why? Some are. They retired, started TTOC. The classroom teacher, the LEC teacher, whoever didn't come back, and now they're posting the job and they offer it to you.

Speaker 2 1:11:10

Yeah, yes.

Speaker 3 1:11:11

TTOC, you have some hiring rights, so you can take that job, and now you're doing your pension and your teacher salary. And I know people who are quite enjoying doing that. So if that's your cup of tea, why not?

Speaker 2 1:11:24

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:11:25

You know, sock that extra money into a TFSA or something for yourself. Um but uh I one thing I caution teachers I talk to who are planning their retirement is you are enthusiastic now to get on the TOC list, and the school board will let you on or not. Most districts you have to apply for the TTOC list. Um they really need TTOCs, you're likely to get accepted. If you do, I'm suggesting you not count on that income as part of your retirement planning. Think of it as a bonus. It's gonna fund the big round-the-world trip you want to take. But if you count on it as your basic income in retirement, once you no longer want to do that or are able to do that, that income's gone. So make sure you can afford to retire based on your pension, OAS, CPP, your RIF drawdown, and your TFSA. TTLC income. Think of it as your fun money and and your bonus money. Because I think people and people enjoy the freedom of it because you can turn a pi a job down when they call you, or you can go in if you want. You can specify in many districts which school you're willing to work at. So you might want to go to the school you just left where you know the kids, they know you. That's a big help when you're a TTOC. Um and for a while you really love it, but um it's you're not gonna want to do it forever. As you get older, it's harder. Um, if you go to many different schools, you may find, oh, that's not quite my cup of tea. It's not what I signed up for.

unknown 1:13:04

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:13:04

Those are wise words because I do know people that have kind of adjusted their lifestyle to their pension and their TOC income.

Speaker 2 1:13:12

Yeah.

Speaker 1:13:12

And then they, like you just said, they go, I don't want to do this anymore, but they've suddenly maybe they've taken on a mortgage or they've done something and expanded in their life, and that's they go, oh.

Speaker 3 1:13:22

Oh. That's another raises another consideration for your planning ahead of time, ahead of your retirement. When do you know you're ready to retire? So I always think there's at least two facets to that. One is I'm psychologically ready. I'm uh done with this style of teaching for now, for now. I'm um the uh const, and it's constant um relentless um work.

Speaker 1:13:54

You're never noise outside. I think most people say I love the kids. I love this one, it's everything else.

Speaker 3 1:13:59

It's all on their plate.

Speaker 1:14:02

Oh, I don't want that anymore. Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:14:03

It's a pretty all-consuming profession. You're never away from it until maybe July, part way into July. But it's always with you otherwise. I mean, you can't you can't go to the dollar store without thinking, geez, that's good for that art project. Or look at that maple leaf on the ground. I can press those for Mother's Day cards for the kids to make. I can clip this article and because I'm gonna use that in my history class. It's always, well, nowadays it's I'm gonna mark that website because that's where I can go over my history info. That was after my time.

Speaker 2 1:14:35

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:14:35

Uh but yeah, it's always with you all the time, and you know, the the worry and so on. Um, but the rewards are, as we know, so many. So before you retire, you want to think about am I psychologically ready? I'm ready to leave the profession, that constant contact with colleagues, and I have plans to replace those social interactions with other things in my life that I don't have time to do now. And the second facet is can I financially afford to retire? So that's when you got to sit down and do an expenses spreadsheet. Um, and if you look on our on the BC Retired Teachers Association website, bcrta.ca, you'll find a page about planning resources for retirement. Um you can get to it by registering for one of our workshops. They'll send you the link to get this page, which is full of retirement planning resources. And one of them is an expenses tracking sheet, which is simple, simple to fill out, but it's quite comprehensive. It tracks all kinds of categories of expenditures in your daily life where you can write down what you're actually spending now on all sorts of things from food to gas for your car to house insurance to um gifts, you know, all kinds of stuff's in there, and then estimate what you'll spend in retirement. And there's another sheet that lets you compare your take home pay, working in retirement. So that's the kind of work you got to do before you answer that second question. Can I financially afford to retire? Your take home pay, as we talked earlier, will have fewer deductions, so it's going to be closer to what you were now, but it's definitely going to be less, no question about it. Add in your CPP and your OAS and your RIF withdrawal, that helps to even things out for you for your take-home. Um and anticipate some major expenses you want to get out of the way before you stop working. Does your house need a new roof? Well, get that done before you retire. Do you need a new car that's going to stay with you for 10, 20 years into retirement? Do that first. Are the kids out of the basement? Are they finished with college fees? Uh, try to account for all of those things before you say, okay, now I'm ready. Now I'm ready to pull the pluck.

unknown 1:16:59

Yeah.

Speaker 1:16:59

Well, I think that's a great place to end it. Those words of wisdom, Linda. And we for those that don't know you who are listening, I think you've all realized just what a wealth of information you are. And we so appreciate you taking the time to come and talk to us on After the Bell. It's been our pleasure.

Speaker 1 1:17:14

Yes, thank you. And uh I'm as a retired teacher, I'm inspired for someone who's had a lot of experience being retired. So I can't wait till I get to that total sense of calm that you have. I'm I'm not there yet, though. Thank you, Linda.

Speaker 3 1:17:35

Thank you very much. I enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 1:17:44

Well, I really enjoyed that and talking to Linda about uh retirement. And um, she is, I guess, the poster child for me now um as a retired person to see how long she's been retired and what she's done. Uh um I bow down to her, uh I see how uh she enjoys being retired and how calm she is about the whole thing.

Speaker 1:18:05

And she's calm because she's done so much work her whole life preparing for it. She's so knowledgeable that she's worked it out. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Speaker 1 1:18:12

But it it's kind of like um when you uh want to paint your house or or you want to do some work in your house and you go to someone else's house and you do the work uh for them and then you go, oh, I know what I'm gonna do differently. So maybe after she's advised all those people about retirement. And then she says, and now that I know how to retire because I saw all the mistakes I made beforehand. Exactly.

Speaker 1:18:39

I don't believe that. Not at all. But it's a it was a great, great conversation, and uh really enjoyed having her on for season two, episode ten.

Speaker 1 1:18:48

Yes.

Speaker 1:18:49

Yeah. So there you go. Thanks, listeners, for joining us on After the Bell, and we'll talk to you next time. Bye-bye. This podcast is organic, taking shape with each episode, building resiliency for teachers everywhere.

Speaker 1 1:19:02

That sounds great.

Speaker 1:19:03

And our website is stuntbrothers.ca.

Speaker 1 1:19:06

That's stuntbrothers.ca.

Speaker 1:19:08

We will chat again.

Speaker 1 1:19:10

After the bell.