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How to grow a Property Portfolio? - Interview with Founder of InvestHER Karen Lacheta-Pell

• Ash Cam • Season 1 • Episode 16

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Owning multiple investment properties is a financial goal that most of us share. However, the process of researching, negotiating and purchasing them can be wildly stressful. 

In today's episode we are learning all about property investing in with the Founder of InvestHER, Karen Lacheta-Pell. 

Karen removes the jargon and shows us how simple the process can be when you work with a team of experts who have spent the past 9 years helping thousands of clients from all over Australia to strategically buy investment properties. 

If you currently own investment properties and want to grow your portfolio - or are looking to get started asap this episode is absolutely packed with actionable insights to inspire you. 

  • The benefits of investment properties? 
  • How to start investing in property this year?
  • How to choose the right property for your financial strategy? 
  • Should you see a property before you buy it? 
  • What qualities are Karen's team looking for in a great investment property? 
  • How much money you need to get started? (You might be more ready than you think...) 
  • How to use equity to scale your property portfolio? 
  • How use property to create a passive income and retire early? 
  • Which cities you should be investing in in 2024? 

I'm so excited for you to tune into this one.

Schedule a free intro call with the InvestHER team (Don't forget to say hi from the Reset Podcast Team):  https://www.investherproperty.com.au

Follow InvestHER on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/investher.property/  

Follow Ash on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ashcam____/

See latest Reset Retreats, Workshops & Events: www.resetworkplace.com.au

Watch this episode on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/@Reset.Workplace

SPEAKER_02:

Often, particularly females, don't think they're in a position to do something and in actual fact they are. The conversation is worth having and don't be afraid to ask. Karen,

SPEAKER_01:

welcome to Reset.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you. So excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01:

You are the founder of Invest Her Property and it is no secret that Australians are love property. In fact, let's scrap the word love and say are obsessed. I think that it is a topic of conversation that comes up constantly. What are the interest rates doing? Who's getting an investment property? Are you renovating right now? Are you rent vesting? It is relentless. So I'm excited to have you here today to dive into specifically using property as an investment tool. Tell me, do you think... investing in property in a traditional sense. buy a property, rent it out, hope for some capital gains and a bit of rental income. Do you think it's still a good idea in this economy?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, obviously that's what we do. Obviously, as you mentioned, Australians love property. It's definitely been, it seemed to be one of, if not the safest asset classes to invest in. And all we have to do is look back on history to really understand that that is the case. So property, you know, on average will increase in Australia at 7% per annum. And that's probably a conservative number because obviously depending on where you invest and what type of property you invest in, that can be a whole lot more in terms of your capital growth. So I definitely think that there is an opportunity there. And yes, traditionally, we look at buying a property, renting it out to a long-term tenant. is that's the way we sort of structure it with our clients. There are a lot of people that do your short stays, Airbnbs, things like that, which are sort of less traditional. They do earn a relatively good or lucrative rental income, but with any asset, the higher the return is the higher the risk usually. So there are things to consider if you're going down that sort of non-traditional route of property investing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, okay. And I feel like buying a property can be very stressful for people, but buying an investment property is quite different to buying a home. And I like to think of like a home is often purchased with heart and investment property should be purchased with your head and logic and a clear financial strategy. Can you talk to me a little bit about some of the different reasons why someone might buy an investment property?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, definitely. So, I mean, as you mentioned, we should not go with our heart. We shouldn't be emotion-led when we're looking at an investment property. Females in particular and at Investor, we find that this is probably one of the areas that we really have to coach our clients into understanding that Just because they don't want to live in it, it doesn't necessarily mean that someone else doesn't want to live in it. I like to think of a property strategy or an investment property as a business. So for a business, we're looking to build goodwill, build an income, but there's obviously a number of considerations to take into consideration when you're starting a business. Likewise with a property investment portfolio. So you want to earn a rental income and you want capital growth out of that. But there are a number of considerations to consider when building out your investment property strategy. So it's very much like a business plan and like a business strategy. You have to think about all the other factors that might impact your investment property purchase. And also, is there a demand for it? Is the area that you're looking for, is there a need for that necessarily? Just like you would in a business. So there's a number of reasons. People can buy a property and that could be for tax deductions. It could be purely for capital growth and building wealth creation. Could be for a high rental yield if they need extra cash flow. But what we tend to see is More and more these days, people come to us and they say, I need to build generational wealth because I'm seeing the price of properties start to skyrocket. I'm worried about my children. That's a very common one we get nowadays. I'm worried about my children being able to get into the property market. So I want to be in a position to help them to get into the property market. The other thing is obviously retirement. So according to the standards, you're expected to retire with about 600, this is as a couple,$690,000 in your superannuation and that's at age 67. The average life expectancy for females is 85. So if we break that down you're looking at roughly 30, I think it's about$38,000 a year. And this is assuming you own your home outright, but that means you're living off under$40,000 a year in your retirement. And I don't know about you, but I probably spend more on matcha latte. So we all want to sustain a level of lifestyle. We want to have that dream of retiring and going on cruise ships and traveling the world. And the reality is, if we're not thinking now for later, we're not going to have that.

SPEAKER_01:

I think everyone loves the idea of having a passive income, like a rental property later in life. But how much money do we need to have to get started? Like how much money before coming in, working with you, do you recommend people have saved up? Because properties, as you said, is not cheap.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. It's such a broad question and obviously one we get often. You need to take into consideration all your expenses when purchasing a property. So obviously you need your deposit or equity and then you need your stamp duty, taxes, buyer's agent's fees, anything that you need to set up your portfolio. So again, it's so dependent on your situation, your strategy. Are you buying an apartment? Are you buying a house? It really does vary. So I'm sorry, I can't really give you a really straight answer on that. But what I would say is that often, particularly females, don't think they're in a position to do something. And in actual fact, they are. We've spoken to clients in the past reluctantly, and they've been able to fast forward what they thought they could afford by like some of them about eight to 12 months. So I think the conversation is worth having and don't be afraid to

SPEAKER_01:

ask. Okay, that's really good advice. So like anything, I guess, if you can plan ahead, it makes it a smoother sailing. And so coming and chatting to you guys of like, hey, I do want to buy an investment property in the future. I don't know when that is, but you could help them plot that out.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes,

SPEAKER_01:

absolutely.

SPEAKER_02:

And we sort of, you know, we like to call it reverse engineering. So we say, okay, well, this is what we need. So let's work backwards. We will always say have a buffer. So we'll never say stretch yourself to the limit. You always want to make sure that you have that buffer, that cash buffer that enables you to take into consideration interest rate increases, maintenance costs, anything that springs to mind, or even if you have rental vacancy periods, which hopefully you don't. But these are all the things that we say, please leave a buffer, make sure you have cash. that allows you to, you know, survive in those times.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think it's those surprise costs. Like we have an investment property now and as soon as we had the tenant move in, you know, it's like, oh, the air conditioner is broken, the garage motor broke, you need landlord insurance, you have to pay the real estate agent for filling the spot. Like all these little costs which, you know, now you've listened to this podcast, you know that these things can crop up. But yeah, just preparing for that, I think is really important.

SPEAKER_02:

I think it's important to note though, because people say, oh, what are the hidden costs? Well, hopefully for one, there's not too many hidden costs because your mortgage broker, your accountant, your advisor, your property advisor is very transparent with you upfront what you need in order to run a property portfolio. But also don't be afraid to to go forward with it because of the costs. It's sort of like saying, I'm not going to start a business because I have to pay for marketing or rent or staff. That doesn't really make sense. It's the cost of doing business. But really, if we get that sweet spot and the strategy right, like a business, your profit should exceed your costs and And you should still be winning. So that's where it's really important to get it right. But don't be afraid because you think, oh, well, there's added expenses and costs. And the other thing is those costs are tax deductible. So make sure you have a really good accountant and that really helps you in that sort of area of costs.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, beautiful. I love this kind of framing of think of it as a business. I think that's really empowering. And again, it takes that heart, puts it over here and like we're business women. We are buying things with our heads. What kind of duration do you usually recommend your clients are holding a property for? Like when you're crafting that strategy, is it possible that you can, you know, flip a property within 12 months, two years, or is it more of a longer term thing?

SPEAKER_02:

Look, there are strategies around flipping properties and they're sort of more existing properties and renovating, selling for a profit. But keep in mind that they are probably a little bit higher risk because you don't know what you're going to get into once you crack open a wall. And also, they take a lot of your time, right? So what we really want to do is create passive income. We don't want to be investing more time into it. We want to be creating passive income. Ideally, we always say, don't sell, hold for as long as possible. Naturally, sometimes that doesn't always happen. But I think the beauty of building a property portfolio is that it gives you options. So we had a client who purchased one with us back in 2016, purchased another, had three under their belt, and then unfortunately, he got cancer. And thankfully, he's fine now. But They were able to sell one of their properties and live off the profits of that to survive, to continue ticking over their existing property portfolio. He was able to take the required time off work. So I think it's really important that obviously there's going to be things that pop up and you may need to sell. But I think the beauty of having a property portfolio allows you to have that freedom and that security.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. And that's what we're all working so hard to have, right? Like in my mind, the definition of a rich life is to have freedom and options. Tell me, where are you seeing most savvy property investors buying? Like where is your team looking at the moment in Australia? A

SPEAKER_02:

golden question. So... Last year, we were seeing a lot of people interested in Perth. Perth was the hotspot, and we saw a lot of investors tapping into Perth. But personally, I think that was very much around affordability. Perth was still affordable, particularly with interest rates. That's where investors could get into. But I would be always conscious of hotspots and popular trends. It's like in female fashion terms, you know, if you're buying a pair of Adidas Sambas in 2025, you've probably already missed the mark. You're probably not going to get the most use out of them because there's going to be something new and coming. So that's sort of the analogy I like to use. I love that. Thank you for making this so relatable. There is a risk that the market has moved and that you have sort of missed your capital growth opportunity. But also be conscious that if all investors are going there, then... there's a lot of rental properties on the market and your supply is up and you're probably not getting one, your rental yield that you want because you're competing against 50 other rentals in your suburb. And two, the capital growth is going to be a lot slower as a result. So that's Perth. I'm from Perth originally. I love Perth, but I would just be conscious of trends. Southeast Queensland has been a very popular spot for a few years now. And I think there's Thank you. So I think there's a lot of opportunity still throughout South East Queensland. But again, the market has moved. And I think for a lot of people, it's just not attainable. And then there's Melbourne. And so Melbourne is the latest spot on the horizon. And we're starting to look into certain areas of Melbourne. Unfortunately for Melbourne, they are suffering a long hangover following COVID and the implementation of the Land tax as a result of their COVID recovery plan, financial plan, really ticked off a lot of investors and a lot of investors exited. But with that comes a lot of opportunity because if all, again, on the flip side of what we discussed about Perth, if everyone's leaving the market, all the investors are leaving the market, there's a shortage of rentals available in Melbourne. So I think there's a real sweet spot between paying your land tax and getting that right and and then the capital growth and rental yield opportunity for Melbourne. But I wouldn't expect it to be a quick flip. It's definitely going to be a long-term hold.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so interesting. And let's keep with the, I'm liking this fashion kind of analogy. So if we're not buying trends, we're buying a capsule wardrobe of timeless pieces. What's your team looking for? Like what are some of the things they look for when they're searching for properties for your clients? Like what What does good look like?

SPEAKER_02:

So capsule wardrobe in investment property terms would be land. So in an ideal world, we want land because land appreciates in value and your building will depreciate in value. As well as that, land over time, as population grows and we know there's a lot of immigration coming to Australia over the next five, 10 years, There's also going to be changes to your local governments in terms of being able to go medium density or high density. And so if you own 800 square metres in a current location, in a blue chip location, there's a good chance that over the next 10 years, the government regulation is going to change in that particular area and you're going to be able to chop that block up into two and then you're making some really great equity uplift by being able to build or sell or create value in that way. So I think land is definitely key to a capsule wardrobe. That said, some people can't afford land and that's completely understandable. And so there are the options of townhouses and apartments, but I would always say just keep a diverse portfolio. So when you can get into land, make sure that you've got that aspect as well. Because with your apartments and townhouses and things like that, there is additional costs to consider being a strata fees, things

SPEAKER_01:

like that. And are there any other factors like, is there a school nearby? Is there a university? What industries are in that area? What else should we be looking for? I

SPEAKER_02:

would say... Obviously the population growth is a big one. So population growth demographics, we know that migration and immigration from outside Australia is going to be a big part of our population growth in the next five years. So where are these people? living in particular? And do they have the facilities that they need to? So infrastructure and development. Do they have transport links? Do they have schools, hospitals, amenities, retail? Will it make for a nice area for someone to live? Is it going to attract people to come and live and drive property prices up in that area? Also, I would say rental vacancies, which we touched on. Make sure that You're not competing against hundreds of other investors. So ideally, you want to go into an area that's highly owner-occupier, which means there's less rentals available, which means the demand and therefore your rental yield is higher than, say, other areas where there's lots of rentals available.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Oh, great advice. And then you've mentioned this magical word equity a few times. Can you talk to us about what equity is and how it can help people to strategically grow their property portfolio? Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, we love equity and we love creating equity. So equity is to really macro level it is what your house is valued at or your property is valued at minus the what you owe on your property. So for example, your house is valued at a million dollars. I'm just using really generic numbers here. So it's really simple. Your house is valued at a million dollars. You owe 600,000. So you've got$400,000 there to use. We're able to use that 400,000 or a percentage of that$400,000 to leverage. So leverage is where we're able to use that income combined with the bank's money, so someone else's money, to continue growing your personal wealth. So who doesn't want to do that, right? I think that equity and leverage is really the key difference in investing in property over investing in other asset classes. That's the opportunity there to really allow you to leverage and continue growing your personal wealth.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, amazing. So in theory, you've got the million dollar property, you owe what did we say?$600,000 left. And then you get to retain that property while going and using that difference as the deposit for the next one. Yes. Yes, that's right. Awesome. And then you can kind of just start playing Monopoly with yourself of like, how many do we get from here? So that sounds great in theory. What are some of the risks that come with that kind of strategy?

SPEAKER_02:

So obviously tapping into your equity and if your property value was to dramatically drop for whatever reason, then you go into negative equity. Honestly, I've never seen it. But again, and this is where we really stress, your first property needs to be so right. And that's not to scare away people who may be on their second one, but getting that first property right is so important to be able to use that strategy and to continue growing your wealth. Because You know, you want something that continually grows in value.

SPEAKER_01:

Love it. And then a lot of people are rent vesting these days. And I know it's a bit of a buzz term, but I think with the property prices the way they are, but also we have high standards and we want to live in certain areas. Are you dealing with a lot of people that are buying a home for the first time, but they're looking at an investment property instead of a home? Is that

SPEAKER_02:

something you're seeing? Yeah, absolutely. We have a lot of clients, particularly based around Sydney and even now starting to be... Queensland clientele as well that can't necessarily afford to buy in Bondi or Bronte Beach, but they have a good income. They understand the importance of investing. They love their lifestyle, but now they're starting to think, well, how can I get into the dumping all my money into, you know, the Sydney market. So we're definitely working with a lot of rent investors in that way. You know, understandably, you want to be close to your coffee shop in the morning and walk to Pilates and do the things that you want to do, but you don't want to have to necessarily leave your neighbourhood. But it doesn't mean you can't be investing and you can't be thinking about your future. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I love that. And you work with clients right around Australia, which is really great. And there's a lot of online support that you can give these days, which is beautiful. And do most of your clients buy properties without actually seeing the property these days? Is that how it works? Again, using our savvy brains, not our hearts, like talk me through the process. Yes,

SPEAKER_02:

yes, that's definitely the case. So obviously we are based in Queensland, but we have clients and we have properties everywhere. So definitely the case where more often than not, our clients are not seeing their property. And part of our process, and this is probably a little bit unique to us, is that if they are doing a property that's, you know, potentially a new build, for example, so we do new and existing, but if it's a new build, for example, we have a WhatsApp group with our clients and we will share send them updates on a monthly basis of this is where your property's at, here's a video, slabs down, walls up, roofs on, you know, all those exciting things, but you don't necessarily have to be there. How convenient.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I've just done some renovations and I was like, oh, I would love to not be involved. Can I project manage this

SPEAKER_02:

outsourced?

SPEAKER_01:

Outsourced. Don't want to deal with the dust. And what about Australians living abroad? So I have friends that are going to listen to this that are living in New York, London, Singapore, and I know multiple of them are keen to buy property back in Australia because they do plan on returning here at some point in the future. And like you said, they don't want to miss out. Do you work with international clients and are there sort of some barriers that they might experience that if they were living and working here, they wouldn't?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, there are barriers to consider. Usually, depending on their situation and depending where they're living, the types of jobs they're holding, these are all sort of very individual sort of circumstances. But You know, the deposit typically is a little bit higher. So that's something to consider. It's about getting a good broker that understands the international clientele market. We do have clients who are in Europe, who are in Dubai, who are in Japan. They're all very different professions, but they all are investing back here in Australia. So There's definitely an opportunity for people to be looking at the Australian market, even though they're not here. There are things to consider, but obviously that's a conversation definitely with the broker to make sure that we can make something work in their favour.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, awesome. And There's people that are going to be listening to this. Some have investment properties already. Some have never bought one before. What's the typical process if they come and work with you guys? What does that onboarding process look like? Can you talk me through it?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So we're very much about building long-term relationships with our clients and we're very much about getting... their specific, unique circumstances and applying a strategy that's right for them. We want to hold their hand and be with them through one, two, three. You know, we have clients that have had five properties through us over time. One of them's building their final retirement home now. So it's a nice story. And retiring early, I should mention. So For us, it's about sitting down, understanding the client, understanding their goals. What are their short and long-term goals? What is it that they want to achieve out of their property portfolio? As we touched on before, it's not just about like, hey, I'm a property mogul and killing it and rich. It's about giving them options in the future and leaving a legacy and leaving that generational wealth for their children. So our clients, we sit down, we go through their situation. Obviously, we talk to either their broker or we can recommend a broker that's suitable for them. And then we, from there, obviously, plan a specific strategy for them with their property portfolio. So look, we don't have a crystal ball and we can't say you're going to buy one and then you're going to buy a second one in two years time and then you're going to buy, because things change, the climate changes, you know, we don't know what we're going to get in terms of capital growth, things like that. But if we have an overall, you know, the mindset and we're on the same page in terms of a long-term goal, then together that's what we aim to achieve for our clients.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I love that. And a lot of the Resight listeners are like, I want something, I want it now. So if someone came to you and they had$30,000 saved up as a deposit, how quickly do you think you could find them a property?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, look, we have a network of people and it depends if, again, their strategy, are they going new? Are they going existing apartments? Are they going houses? Things like that. All of the considerations. But We would never push something just to give you a property. You know, it is very much, again, back to that business analogy, it's making sure that the strategy's in place, that you're ticking all the boxes, that you've made sure you've had all the different considerations and then moving forward to find the right property for them. So sometimes it can take as little as, you know, a month or other times... We've got people who are with us for quite a few months or they need to top up their savings or get a slight pay rise. So we sort of coach them and help them through that journey. We have what we call the Prosper Plan. So that's for clients who are so close but just need a little bit more. And then we sort of coach them, guide them, encourage them. A lot of it's mindset as well, getting them in the right mindset to understand what about property investing, but also really motivate them to save that last bit of cash or go in and ask for a pay rise. So sort of unofficial life coaches there too. I love that. We're all leveling

SPEAKER_01:

up together.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Is there anything about property that we haven't spoken about today that you think or you wish more people knew?

SPEAKER_02:

Don't be afraid to ask the questions. You know, I mean, there's a lot of things to consider. There's a lot of different strategies you could take. I think if you don't ask the questions, you'll never know. And as I said, you know, you could potentially be so much closer than you think. That is the purpose of InvestHer. You know, I am about educating women and giving them the confidence to then acquire their investment properties and build investment property portfolio. I feel like there was a gap in the market where women felt quite reluctant to move forward and ask questions because they felt silly or inadequate or that they didn't know enough. And so I think that was sort of the purpose and the seed that planted and created InvestHer. So it's really about education, confidence and action for me. And I think if you don't ask, you don't get in life and don't

SPEAKER_01:

be afraid to. That's so good. And I know from personal experience, I've been to so many open homes where I would go with my partner and there would be a male real estate agent who didn't read the room and would direct all the questions and all the advice to my partner. And then he walks away being like, well, clearly he has no idea that she's the decision maker here. And so I think that there's this weird like sexism throughout the real estate world. And so having a team like yours just to help with the representation and like the research and stuff can just remove any of that awkwardness.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. And just to clarify, we have males and females on our team. Lovely males and females. Funny you mentioned that, Ash, because we have quite a few invest her clients who come to us, but they're with their partner, but they're just the driver or the decision maker or the, you know, it's a decision made together, but they're the driver of their financials. You know, they're the ones interested in investing. You know, we've had... One client who say, oh, I love this, I want this, but I just need to get him over the line. Can you meet with him? And obviously, we put in the appropriate people. And if it means chatting to a guy to make him more comfortable, that's fine too. I think it's just about giving people... variety and options so they're not feeling intimidated and they're not feeling judged. Yeah, there's so much psychology

SPEAKER_01:

to unpack there. There's so much. It must feel really cool to help people build a property portfolio. What are some of the big client wins that you'd love to celebrate?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, sort of the comment that I made about the retiring early couples. So they started with us in 2016. They bought one, they bought two, they bought five in the end. And then they retired three years early and have just built their, well, finished building their dream apartment that they're going to retire in now. So that's a really nice story. And it's also just, you know, we built a friendship with them. My husband and I have dinner with them when we go to Sydney now. It's like we've built a friendship over a long time. So yeah, that's probably one of the highlights. But also seeing the young investors come in and think that potentially they weren't in a position to do something. And then it turns out we've got them into the property market so much earlier. And they've already got equity and they're already itching to go again. So seeing that enthusiasm of the new generation of people who really understand and believe in it is really exciting too. Oh, that must be such a good feeling. How

SPEAKER_01:

big's your team now?

SPEAKER_02:

We have 14. So we are part of the Propel group. So we've got Propel Property and Investor is a subsidiary of Propel Property. So we work across all, everyone sort of works across all the businesses, but it just means that we're able to deliver the best for our clients. So we have a research department and we have people who are connected and been in the industry for 30 years who gets those off-market opportunities. We have our marketing, beautiful marketing team who make us look great on socials. So yeah, it's a massive team effort, but yeah, it's an exciting time for us.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. And Leading a team of that size is not easy. Growing a business is not easy. When your life gets hectic, what's your favorite way to reset? I'm a big

SPEAKER_02:

fan of infrared saunas. That's sort of my thing. I love to do those. I try and do them every Sunday afternoon. And also, probably not the actual action of doing this, but if I've done it, it puts me in the right mindset for the for the week is spending my Sunday afternoons. This is such the mum in me. It sounds so boring, but doing like my meal prep, my washing, my organizing. If I've done that on a Sunday afternoon, I can feel my anxiety is lower. I'm feeling ready. I don't have to think about a million things I have to do. So yeah, probably just preparation and organization. I love that. And like clean sheets on the bed

SPEAKER_01:

before, oh, look

SPEAKER_02:

at

SPEAKER_01:

us go.

SPEAKER_02:

This is when you feel like you're getting old.

SPEAKER_01:

No, it's like investing in property. You're setting future self up for success and comfort. And is there a book that you think more people should have on their shelf? Doesn't have to be about property. It can be anything. I

SPEAKER_02:

have a confession to make. I am terrible when it comes to reading books. And I say this to you because I could probably pivot the conversation about a podcast or lie and pretend I've read something. But I think there's this always expectations that entrepreneurs and business leaders and high achievers read all these books. When in reality... A lot of them, and when I speak to them one-on-one, will say the same thing, that they've got a bit of maybe an undiagnosed ADHD in them, or they just don't have the time. And so I think it just needs to be said that not everyone reads all the time. And I do have a 40 before 40 list. I turned 40 in January. So I do have a 40 before 40 list. And on that is read more books. So I'll let you know once I've completed a whole one because I'm,

SPEAKER_01:

yeah. I appreciate your honesty. And honestly, if I pick up a book and I've read like a chapter or something and it doesn't feel like it's serving me, I will not finish. And I feel like there's so many great podcasts now where you can like hear from the author and you get all the key points in like a 40-minute episode. So no, thanks. That's very refreshing. Karen, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. Thank you. I will put links in the show notes on how to find you on Instagram, the website link for InvestHer and I will encourage anyone that's listening to reach out to Karen and her team even if you're thinking that property investing is something for you but not right now. It sounds like your team can really help to put into perspective of like, okay, it may not be now but when is it and start to put plans in place. Yeah, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when I love it. Thank you, Karen. Thanks, Ashley. Hey, also, I wanted to say a big thank you for joining us today. My team, our guests, and I pour so much love and time into making these episodes for you. Sort of mean the world to us if you'd hit that follow button. If you feel like inspiring a friend today, you might like to share this episode with them too. I hope you have the most beautiful day. I'll see you soon.