Reset
Hello and welcome to Reset!
If you're anything like me - you want a life filled with your own definition of success, the people you love and stories that will make the 90 year of version of your proud.
A life you're inspired by and doesn't burn you out in the process.
Each week, I'll be interviewing industry experts so that you and I can learn how to best navigate our careers, lives, health and happiness.
By tuning in you’ll also get exclusive invites to in person podcast events, workshops and Reset Retreats.
Ash x
Ps. Let's connect on Instagram @reset____podcast + @ashcam____
Reset
How to Avoid Burnout? - Interview with Psychologist Maddison Bracey
Today's episode dives deep into the causes of stress, burnout and what we can do to manage it with Psychologist Maddison Bracey.
Research shows that 61% of Australian workers reported experiencing burnout, compared to the global average of 48%.
See the full report here https://assets-c4akfrf5b4d3f4b7.z01.azurefd.net/assets/2023/09/a81fcdeb-860a-44f2-aaeb-0525d38358ae-2022_Work_Trend_Index_Pulse_Report_Sep-3697v2.pdf
- What causes stress?
- Is stress contagious?
- Does hybrid work cause more stress?
- When does stress become burnout?
- What are the warning signs of burnout?
- What tools can we used to help manage stress?
- What is the window of tolerance?
- How do Psychologists manage their own stress?
- How to help a friend, partner or team member who is stressed?
- When should you see a Psychologist?
Maddison's book recommendation: https://amzn.to/43RHzFj
Free Download - Circle of Control https://www.resetworkplace.com.au/free-downloads
Free Download - Window of Tolerance https://www.resetworkplace.com.au/free-downloads
Follow Maddison on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maddisonbracey.psychology
Learn more about Maddison / Book an Appointment https://maddisonbraceypsychology.com.au/
Helplines:
Lifeline 131 114 https://www.lifelineqld.org.au/
BeyondBlue 1300 224 636 https://www.beyondblue.org.au/
Acute Care Team 1300 642 255
Head to Health 1800595212 https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/partners/head-to-health
QLD Gov Mental Wellbeing:
Follow Ash on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ashcam____/
See latest Reset Retreats, Workshops & Events: www.resetworkplace.com.au
Watch this episode on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/@Reset.Workplace
Do not say, hey,
SPEAKER_01:calm down. Do not say, just relax. Just relax. Just chill. Just relax. Stressless. Yeah, it's not going to work. Madison, welcome to Reset. Thank you for having me. It is so good to have you here. Some of our listeners have probably met you before at a Reset retreat potentially, or maybe they've been one-on-one clients with you in your private psychology practice in Nobby's. But today we're going to dive into a topic that is really close to my heart, and I know yours as well, and impacts so many of the Reset community, stress and burnout. Yep,
SPEAKER_00:absolutely. I feel like I could talk about this topic for... days, but we'll try and encapsulate it in a nice little podcast for everyone.
SPEAKER_01:Perfect. Let's do it. Game on. We often hear on social media, the concept of a calm nervous system. And I feel like that term is just thrown around these days, but can you explain to us from a psychologist perspective what our nervous system actually is?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, of course. So our nervous system is a the way that our brain communicates with the rest of our body by sending signals to via our little nerves all the way to the different parts of our body. So this is made up of two sections. So one of those is about voluntary movement. So this is a bit more conscious of maybe someone asks you a question or tells you to stand up and then you process that information and then it registers and then you stand up. So that's a voluntary movement that you've told your brain to do. The other one is called our autonomic nervous system. And this is more what's referenced on social media when we're talking about the nervous system or calming our nervous system because this is what is more commonly termed as our fight or flight system. So that autonomic nervous system is also broken up into two parts. So one of those parts is called our sympathetic nervous system, which is that fight or flight. And the other part is our parasympathetic nervous system, which is more commonly coined as our rest or digest. So what happens is our frontal lobe and our brain working as a little bit of a watchman and a tower for alert is processing sensory information from the world around us and processing whether that's a threat or not. And if it assesses it being as a threat, it will fire off our sympathetic nervous system and put us in that fight or flight mode. So we're ready to run away or keep ourselves safe if necessary. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:okay so I feel like I've seen some videos online where people are you know sitting at their laptop and complaining that their brain doesn't realize or their nervous system doesn't realize whether I'm getting chased by a tiger or I'm just getting an email from my boss yeah can you explain why our bodies haven't caught up like what is happening
SPEAKER_00:unfortunately our evolutionary makeup is that it assesses these threats whether they're physical or emotional and reacts the same way I'll let our evolution hasn't quite caught up with how we've evolved and intellectualized over the years. So this, This response is part of our core makeup as being a human being. And it's us to the core. And unfortunately, we can't get rid of that. And unfortunately, our brains will react to a bit more of that emotional threat, which I would call an emotional threat, getting a text, an email from your boss or something like that, rather than a physical threat, which I would describe as being as if something was running towards you, like a big dog or something. scary animal or something okay so our bodies are just trying to keep us safe but sometimes it's a little bit misdirected sometimes it feels like it's working against us and actually it makes us feel it sometimes it feels like it's causing psychological distress for us because we're trying to battle against that as
SPEAKER_01:well okay and there's a lot of goal-driven high achievers that listen to this podcast should we have a goal like is it even possible to have a calm nervous system 100% of the time
SPEAKER_00:absolutely not absolutely not no that would be quite counterproductive we actually need some levels of stress to keep us motivated so there are some categories there are three categories of stress so we've got eustress which is actually a positive stress that keeps us motivated then we've got distress and then we've got burnout we need that positive stress to keep us motivated and encourage us to keep moving forward otherwise we're
SPEAKER_01:Okay. A lot of people that come to our retreats, they... come because they're feeling really burnt out can you explain the difference between that maybe good level of stress and burnout and what are some of the warning signs of of each
SPEAKER_00:yeah what categorizes the stress from the burnout is a couple of things but firstly I'll just go over the stress response a little bit more so with our stress response what how our body is designed is that the stress will come in we assess it we can protect ourselves we get out of there all the stress goes away and then our body can regulate back down into the rest digest zone. what is happening with a lot of emotional stresses which is then leading to a lot of workplace burnout is that that stress isn't coming in and going away like our body is designed for so then we get that accumulative nature of the stress continual and we get that feeling of like everything piling on top of each other so for on one instance maybe one day if you didn't have all the things piling on top of you then that email from your boss might not be stressful but maybe because we had six other things that were stressful that morning as well we've got that accumulative And then we haven't been able to regulate ourselves back down and get our thinking back on clearly. which means then we're still functioning in that fight or flight zone. So that's when we see burnout coming into effect more with the intensity of the stress, the duration and the accumulative nature, which then leads us to feel like we're trapped and we've got that helplessness and feeling a bit out of control. When we feel that state over weeks or months of being at work because we've been pushing ourselves too much, then our body will do things like... tell us to stop and it does that because when we're in our fight or flight zone for so long things that are happening in our rest and digest zone, which is building your immunity, absorbing the nutrients from your food, resting and being able to have good night's sleep. They're not happening. If we're in our fight or flight zone too much, then we don't have a good immune system. We don't have the ability to get our restful sleep. So then we're more likely that we're going to get sick and our body might send us into shutdown
SPEAKER_01:mode. So If someone's listening and they're like, okay, this sounds like a friend of mine, what kind of things would their friend kind of be doing or saying or feeling that would let you know like, yeah, my friend is burnt out right
SPEAKER_00:now? Maybe things like I can't do this anymore or I feel trapped or I feel stuck, that real themes of helplessness and hopelessness would be something. If you see your friend maybe– diving for too much substances, like maybe drinking too much or even using drugs on the weekends, trying to escape to try and get out of that sensation, maybe having extra sick days from work, pulling away and isolating from their friends and family,
SPEAKER_01:those types of things. Yeah, interesting. I know when I've experienced burnout in the past, I somehow still managed to give almost my best self at work, but what tended to suffer was everything outside of work. I remember Alex asking me one night, oh, what do you want to have for dinner? And I just broke down in tears because I was like, no more decisions, no
SPEAKER_00:more responsibility. Yeah, because you just can't do it. You don't have that thinking ability. You've given everything. With Ryan, my husband, when I was working at the hospital in quite a job that was giving me a bit of a burnout, I would come home and I would need 15 minutes just to sit on the toilet because it was quiet and there was nothing and he wasn't allowed to talk to me until I had that 15 minute wind down time in like nothing no other sensory distractions and then I could come out and be okay so I just needed that like there was just too much going on so things like that where you're needing that isolation time and withdrawal or maybe if you are a bit more irritable or emotional
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure. So if anyone's experiencing any of those sorts of things, like that's not normal and you shouldn't continue to live like that, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:What types of people or are there certain people that are more prone to burnout than others?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. So we've got people that do have those perfectionistic traits. So Generally, if you've got those perfectionistic qualities in your personality type, then it could be coming from a bit of a core belief of a fear of failure. Often it's a bit of protective to keep those perfectionistic qualities there. I'm trying to keep everything perfect so we're not making a mistake, but then that then keeps you in a perpetuating cycle of needing to keep going. And then we've got people that are people pleases so they can't say no or they feel like that they don't have the ability to put a boundary in place so they'll just keep being asked to do things even though they're beyond their capacity to do it and they'll continue to say yes people that have diagnosis of adhd so the dopamine chasing often then they'll be like on to the next on to the next on to the next on to the next until then that burnout happens and you can't do it anymore And then if people have experienced any levels of trauma, maybe childhood trauma or big traumatic events, they might not have the capacity to deal with the same level of stress maybe that they used to or as the other people around them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so interesting. A tool that you like to teach at our retreats, and I'm sure you use it with your clients, and I feel like once people are aware of this tool and this framework, you're looking at me like, which one are you going to say?
SPEAKER_00:I was trying to open the folder in my brain before you
SPEAKER_01:say it preemptively. No, I feel like it's such a simple tool, and we can probably put a link to a download of a PDF version of this, but can you talk us through what the Circle of Control is Oh yeah, I love the circle of control.
SPEAKER_00:So the circle of control is a little bit of a mindset shifting tool. So as you said, it sounds really simple and sounds a little bit like, oh, that's so silly. When I explain it, then when we actually put it into perspective or actually like break it down, often one-on-one in therapy, we realize people aren't doing that. So how it works is often when we're stressed or even when we're worried, we're thinking about things that are so far down the line or so far out of our control. And then that is continuing to elevate that stress. So for example, if you've got a deadline and that's coming up closer and you're really like frantically trying to work to to get the deadline in place. And we'll keep looking at the clock and we keep getting huffing and frustrated every minute that goes by. What you're trying to do in that moment is you're putting energy and you're trying to put control into changing the time, which you have no ability to change how time works. What we have in that moment is the ability to regulate yourself or think about how you can calm yourself in that moment. So that's what's in your control. So when we think about the circle of control, I want you to think about all the things that you can control in that moment. So often those things are how you speak to other people, how you regulate yourself, like I mentioned before, maybe doing deep breathing, maybe getting up and taking two minutes to walk away and breathing get your thinking back on track, might regulate yourself a bit more so you can be more productive for the rest of that time, how you do your self cares. And then often with my clients, we'll work on, okay, we've done all of that stuff. Now let's think about what's the one step next forward. What do I need to do to take one step forward? So what's that one thing in my control? So then we're breaking it down to what's step one. So if it's that deadline example and everything's feeling a bit scattered because we're in fight or flight mode, maybe we need to come back and think okay where do I start is it opening up the document is that step one is it asking somebody if you can help delegate the work is that step one like what does that look like where is this where is the next step forward rather than trying to look for the end result where we're often trying so hard to jump to the finish line which is completely out of our control that we're not focusing on the things that are right in front of us that are in our control.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Beautiful. And I know when you draw it, it's kind of funny. I'm watching the video right now. It's like a circle in the middle, which you write, like, these are the things within my control. And then there's two other rings around
SPEAKER_00:that. Yeah. Yep. So there's the circle of influence, which is the next one, which is level two. And then level three on the outside circle is the things that are completely out of your control. So the things in your influence might be, you don't have direct control over them, but they're things that that how you're behaving, it might impact the people around you. So things like if you're having a complete carry-on and a meltdown at your desk and you're in a shared office space, then the things that are in your influence are all the people around you that you're bleeding that stress out to. I think we've spoken about before, Ash, that stress is contagious and then that would be one of those things.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And then the things that are completely outside of your control in that outer ring. I know when I've done this exercise with you before, there's so many things that, you know, keep us up at night or like have us scrolling on social media and feeling anxious. And it's like, well, hang on, all these things are outside of my control. And I find it takes so much power away from them. If you can just like put it down on paper and like, all right, cool. I am literally going to give no brain power to anything except what's in that middle ring. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:It's so powerful to put it down on paper. I think we'll put the link in the show notes and then if people feel like this is resonating with them, I think sitting down and doing the exercise would be really helpful to really think about what is completely out of my control that I give so much energy to or I'm struggling against.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, amazing. And then let's just jump back to what you mentioned before about is stress contagious. Can you answer that for us? Yeah. Well, yes.
SPEAKER_00:I think so. I also like to use sometimes that calm is contagious. So I think that if we were talking a little bit before about if you see a friend that is burnt out or stressed, meeting them at their level is Thank you so much. I'm stressed too, what's there to be worried about? But if you have the ability to, we get that alert, we can regulate and then you can stay calm. That's a superpower in a stressful situation.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, beautiful. So yes, stress is contagious, but the flip of that is really beautiful too. Calm is contagious. Yeah, yeah. Without telling someone, hey, calm down. Do not
SPEAKER_00:say, hey, calm
SPEAKER_01:down. Do
SPEAKER_00:not say, just relax. Just relax. Just chill. Just relax. Stressless. Yeah, it's not going to work. When my husband likes to say, what are you so worried about?
SPEAKER_01:Everything in the outer circle of my circle of control. Okay, another tool that I love that you use is the window of tolerance. Can you talk us through what that is?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Okay, so I referenced it kind of a little bit before with the– fight or flight, and then rest, digest. So it takes those principles into account, but gives us a nice little window of how we react. So I'm trying to think about how I can describe this for an audio medium. So
SPEAKER_01:it's okay. Like if you're on Spotify, you can click and watch the video, otherwise jump on YouTube. But yeah,
SPEAKER_00:let's just say three rectangular blocks on top of each other. In the middle rectangular block, we've got, that's what we would call our window of tolerance. So that's similar to when we're in rest digest mode. So that's when we have capacity to learn new things, be present in the current situation. We're calm, we're cool. We're chill. That's where our immune system is working at its best. Our digestive system is working pretty good. We're getting good night's sleep, that kind of stuff. Above on the top block, we would call that hyperarousal. So that is where we would see that more fight or flight zone up there. So that is where we would see things like the... Racing, heart rate, blood pumping to your muscles, anger, irritability, anxiety often feels quite hot when you're in that state or that flustered and often your breathing will be all up in your chest because we're not breathing nicely down into our belly. And below on the bottom... is called hypoarousal. So that would be more of our shutdown response and maybe linked a bit more to that freeze or fawn that we also hear about when we're talking about the nervous system. What generally happens is when a threat would come in, then we would get that assessment of, okay, this is risky. Our body will send us into that fight or flight zone. Sometimes then our body will identify that we can't physically remove ourselves from that situation. And then it will emotionally remove us and send us down into the hypo arousal zone, that shutdown. So that's when we get things like maybe we want to lay around in doom scroll because we just can't deal with the world anymore. Maybe we want to have, we just, we feel like maybe we're dissociating a little bit. Like we know our body's there, but our mind isn't really there. We have no energy and we're just feeling a bit flat and depleted.
SPEAKER_01:Can... burnout lead to depression or is there like
SPEAKER_00:a
SPEAKER_01:way of telling am I burnt out or am I depressed like can you explain sort of some of the differences there
SPEAKER_00:yeah so it can lead to depression when I'm with one-on-one clients and they are presenting with those external stresses of that would constitute as being something that's led to burnout but then they've got those depressive symptoms we would first work on trying to get them out of that situation or give them back that control in that burnout and then see if those depressive symptoms alleviate. And if they don't, then we might be looking at two coinciding at the same time, like maybe we've got a chemical imbalance there as well as that burnout or maybe that burnout was relating to those symptoms coming to play, which can also happen.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, interesting. I've noticed a lot of high-achieving friends and clients throughout the time. A big red flag for me, and if someone's dreaming of this kind of business and it's not linked to burnout, then good on you. But I often hear these fantasies come up of, I just want to quit everything and open a florist, or I want to quit everything and open a coffee shop. I want to move to an island and do this.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:For me personally I remember once saying like oh I wish I just had a job where I laid bricks because it's so straightforward and I know exactly what the next move is there's no thinking if people are going through that kind of headspace right now. Seeing a psychologist is a really great way to start to wrap your head around. Where am I at? Where is this coming from? Do I actually want to open a coffee shop and give away my career I've worked 10 years to build? Or is it a symptom of something else? Not everyone has the time or resources to see a psychologist. What do you recommend they kind of do as a starting point if they're sort of wanting to escape their life right now? Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00:That's a really good question. It really depends. So I've got like a couple of things there. So you said... about you wanting to go and lay bricks, which...
SPEAKER_01:Just for the record, like, that never happened, but I was at that state. I was, like, travelling all over the world, like, leading teams, launching products, doing this really cool stuff. It was, like, Emily in Paris vibes, but Ash in London. But I was just so exhausted and burnt out that I just wanted something where, like, I was told what to do next and it was so, you know, pattern-based.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, yep, OK. So for something like that, I would... want to look at what someone's values are. So you can get lots of different resources on values or on life goals and things like that online just by Googling some stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Do you have some on your Instagram? Should we be checking out your page? No.
SPEAKER_00:Not yet. Not yet. She says not yet. Not yet. Post incoming. Because I want to know whether is this something, are you just feeling a little bit helpless at the moment and you're trying to find a solution to escape? Or is that actually going to be something that's going to give you life purpose and fulfillment? So with that, we can reference a little bit of that Yerkes Dodson performance and stress bell curve. So I need to do this in the workshop as well. I wasn't paying attention in that part of the workshop. No, no. So a little bell, like a standard bell curve. In the center where it hits its peak, that's where we see our eustress and our motivating stress. So we've got on the bottom scale, the bottom axis. I don't know my X and Y axis. Send me back to primary school. We can do like some arms here. Again, check the video. The bottom
SPEAKER_01:axis.
SPEAKER_00:um is stress and then the side is performance so when we've got the top of the bell curve and we've got a nice medium partway stress we're at our peak performance so that's challenging us enough that it's keeping us motivated but it's not putting too much pressure because we're seeing growth we're seeing like everything in a nice stride but we still feel like we've got enough control over what's going on we've got a bit of autonomy we feel good on the far end of maximum stress i think We can guess that would be burnout. And then we see performance drop off a cliff. And then on the other end where we don't have enough stress and performance is down at the start, that's boredom. So if we're talking about you wanting to go lay bricks and being told what to do, I could see you being in the boredom category. Really? Pretty quickly. And then I don't think it would take long before you're running the marketing team of the bricklaying construction company.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because you want more. You're chasing more.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, interesting. Plot twist. Imagine my next move. We've kind of like talked about stress and burnout today in what feels like a lighthearted way. But when you're in the depths of it. It's rough. What should people do if they're listening to this right now and they're like, you know what? Yeah, I'm at the state where I would love to just quit everything and lay bricks. No harm to any bricklayers.
SPEAKER_00:No harm to any bricklayers. If that's your
SPEAKER_01:life purpose, that's your life purpose. Then go for it and we need more of you.
SPEAKER_00:Ash's little arms couldn't do it. That's all we're
SPEAKER_01:saying. These are not made for it. Yeah, so obviously going and seeing a psychologist like yourself or someone local is great, but sometimes there's long wait times Like sometimes people can't wait when you're in that darkest point. Are there some helplines or anything that you would recommend?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so there's definitely the crisis helplines, Lifeline, Beyond Blue, or even the acute care team line, which is the Queensland government, how to access public mental health service. That would be if we're at the peak, you're feeling maybe unsafe in yourself. Those three hotlines is something I would do. There's also another website that the Australian government has put together called Head to Health. So you can go on there and it gives a little bit of, it's got some nice resources for all mental health conditions, but then also there's a little bit of a quiz and it also can give you some recommendations on some free or really low cost online programs that are a bit more CBT based that will give you a nice little starting point while you're waiting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, great. Thank you. Let's put links to those in the show notes as well for people. We've gone through this huge shift where everyone wanted to work remotely or wanted to work hybrid, but that's not actually conducive of being able to switch off and leave
SPEAKER_00:work. Absolutely. Absolutely. Keeping boundaries with yourself is so important if you're working remotely, like little strategies so you know that your workday ends. It's one of those things, if you're working at your kitchen table, that's right behind your couch. Yeah. then how do we separate that as well? And then also we think about human connection. We need that as an important part
SPEAKER_01:of our well-being. yeah I know some strategies I put in place in the past which were really helpful especially during the pandemic because I was working from my bedroom at the time like that was crazy but at the end of the work day I would consciously put my laptop into a drawer I would wipe down the desk like I would just try and cleanse the space so I had that mental divide but it took me like I'd been working remotely for like four or five years before that point so I feel like I'd been in training for it but little rituals like that or even going for a walk in the morning before you start work and then after work, like just to kind of have that commute. Yeah, I think it's so powerful.
SPEAKER_00:I think some of the things I've worked on with some of my clients is wearing shoes during your work day and then you're clocking off so you're taking your shoes off or like actually wearing still some type of work clothing and then work finishes and we close. So we've still got those little rituals that's telling our brain, all right, I'm done now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because it can be very tempting to have PJs on the bottom and something presentable for the camera on top.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think all great in theory, right? But it comes at some costs. I admit I
SPEAKER_00:have been guilty of that doing some telehealth at home.
SPEAKER_01:Your clients are going to be watching now like,
SPEAKER_00:is she wearing pyjama pants? Is she wearing pyjamas? What she got behind the
SPEAKER_01:camera? No, there's so many beautiful aspects of the internet and being able to work remote. But yeah, there's some things to be
SPEAKER_00:aware of as well, for sure. Yeah, when there's no work-life balance, then that's when we see burnout really coming into play
SPEAKER_01:yeah and I think it's confusing for a lot of us who really love what we do because it's like oh I've hit the sweet spot I'm I get to do what I love for work every day and that's almost a slippery slope recipe to burnout as well because you're like well I don't need a break from it everyone told me if I found a job that I loved then you never work a day in your life and what I've learned the hard way and I think we've talked about this before as well is like you just you'll need to create these intentional rituals and moments and like opportunities to step away. And then you come back so much fresher and so much more productive for it. Absolutely. Yeah. Couldn't agree more. That is hit the nail on the head. Tell me, is there anything we haven't discussed today that you think more people need to know? I
SPEAKER_00:think I'll probably just touch on again with the psychology, what you said. I think if you're noticing that you're falling into these patterns of stress and burnout a lot. Like you change the job and then it feels good for a little while and then all of a sudden we're burnt out again. Or maybe you're constantly getting into relationships that bring you that burnout or sense of not being in control. Like I can't stress it enough, I can't recommend enough, seeing a psychologist for one-on-one therapy to talk about what's going on that is... something that's about you that's leading you to fall into these situations because unfortunately you're the common denominator if we keep falling into these patterns so we need to work out how where is this coming from why is that happening and give you the better skills to help you moving forward and get you thriving not surviving every
SPEAKER_01:day yeah no that's such a good point and I was actually just chatting to a friend yesterday and she is classic high achiever loves like to be super big busy and she's started a new job and she's very aware that she's prone to burnout and so something that she's doing which I think is really cool is she's really goal-driven so she knows like her KPIs and targets in the new job but she's also setting some for her personal life beautiful of what that looks like and does that include switching off at a certain time in the evening does it include having Saturdays that are tech-free like what does that look like for her and I think that's a really cool way to tap into her natural personality type that is what goal and target driven but making sure it's there's goals on both sides yeah we've got
SPEAKER_00:things everywhere yeah because there is definitely that honeymoon period when you go into a new job where it feels really good and then that would be like if we come back to that bell curve is right at the start when we're in that honeymoon period it all feels nice it all feels good we're in that growth we're in that good stress zone but then because of other factors of who you are then we take on way too much and then we fall back down into the burnout category so that would be something to our Yeah. I
SPEAKER_01:know that you personally have done a lot of self-work in putting in boundaries and making sure that when life gets crazy busy, you take moments to reset. But what's your favorite way to reset at the moment?
SPEAKER_00:I'm probably going to say something a little bit controversial here. Do it. I think maybe other psychologists wouldn't agree. But what I think has always worked for me is when I get to a stage of I'm doing too much or a little bit I'm just feeling exhausted, I give myself permission to have like a veg out doona day. Like just I watch my favorite classic TV shows or movies, like normally like binge watch Harry Potter or something, classic millennials. over here and don't put too much pressure on myself I'm allowed to do that give myself permission to do that for a day really switch off from the world and then come back at it get back to my nice routine the next day which would be like going for a nice walk getting a bit of movement making sure I'm eating all the right foods but allowing myself to have a day where it doesn't matter it's just been really freeing for me
SPEAKER_01:I love that. We in our house, we call that an adult snow day. It's so cute. I love that. Sometimes we're like, it's a snow day. Just like permission to chill and literally do no adult responsibilities. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Sometimes we need it. Yeah. Yeah. And put on something that is put on something on the TV that's just light and fluffy and airy and and you know how it's going to end. There's no curveballs. There's nothing. It's unpredictable. It just feels nice. It's like giving your brain and your body a little hug.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So you've mentioned Harry Potter, the movie. Is there also a book that's had a positive impact on your life that you think more people should read?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I think I'm going to be basic psychologist or basic therapist here and say The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk. I think it just explains so amazingly and really It has informed how I practice as well, how we can't separate the mind from the body. Trauma will show up in our body and we need to think about how we're going to work through that as the mind and the body being together. not trying to separate the two of them. And I just think that's a really beautiful concept and really informs how I practice as a psychologist.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. I haven't read it, but I've heard so many good things about it. It's a little bit of a
SPEAKER_00:heavy read at times, so not the most enjoyable at times, but I think there are some things where you go, oh, Of course. Okay. That's why that works. And it was so groundbreaking at the time when it came out because a psychiatrist recommending yoga, like what? That is just, no one was doing that. It was all about Western medicines, but it comes a little bit more with how we're using other tools and other things for our bodies to be well. That's great.
SPEAKER_01:If anyone's looking for personalized support and they want to get in touch with you, what are the different ways they can work with
SPEAKER_00:you? So you can see me for in-person appointments at my clinic in Nobby Beach called the Lavrac Rooms or I do offer telehealth Australia-wide if that's something that you're interested as well. I do have lots of clients all over Australia and it's really beautiful being able to connect with lots of different people on that platform. You can follow me on my Instagram or jump on my website for more information Mads,
SPEAKER_01:thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01:Hey, also, I wanted to say a big thank you for joining us today. My team, our guests, and I pour so much love and time into making these episodes for you. So it would mean the world to us if you'd hit that follow button. If you feel like inspiring a friend today, you might like to share this episode with them too. I hope you have the most beautiful day. I'll see you soon.