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Why you NEED to write a Will in 2025 - Interview with Lawyer Abbey John

• Ash Cam

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Writing a Will is on my  'adult life admin' to do list but something I keep putting off because it's uncomfortable to think about AND feels like something future Ash can worry about instead. 

After speaking with friends I realised I'm not the only one who thinks like this. 

So, to help all of us be high achievers in this life AND the afterlife I invited in an expert. 

Yes, Lawyer Abbey John specialises in making the tough conversations easier and has helped people all over Australia to write Wills. 

What I've come to realise after speaking with Abbey is that writing one (even a basic one that can be edited later) is an act of love and care for everyone around me. Dealing with loss is horrible. Being left with a mess of sorting out what's left can break families and friends apart at a time they need to be together most. 

Questions we discuss include: 

* So, what is a legally binding Will anyway? 

* What are some of the issues that we should consider when writing one? 

* Do you need to include your pets in a Will? 

* What should we do if we inherit the responsibility of sorting out someone else's final wishes? 

* Can you specify that people have to do certain things with the money / assets you leave them? 

* What if you don't have anyone you'd like to leave things to?

* What happens if you write a Will and then have a breakup, child or change of circumstances? 

Connect with Abbey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abbey-john/ 

Follow Abbey on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawyer.abbeyjohn/?hl=en 

Follow Ash on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ashcam____/

See latest Reset Retreats, Workshops & Events: www.resetworkplace.com.au

Watch this episode on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/@Reset.Workplace

SPEAKER_01:

Abby,

SPEAKER_00:

welcome to Reset. Good morning, Ash. Thank you for having me. I'm really looking forward to today's conversation. I feel like we've covered a lot of taboo topics on this podcast, but this one is one that literally changes lives of everyone around us. So Abby is a lawyer who specializes in helping people write wills. It's a niche. Did you study law thinking that you would specialize in wills or how did you get to where you are today? Yes, great question. So I watched too many crime documentaries, NCIS, Bones, Law and Order at a young age, which I don't know if that was a great thing, but here we are today. And I always just thought that would be a great to do. It looks really cool on the TV. We get to dress up in nice clothes. It looks exciting. So sure, why not? This area that I'm in particularly, it comes to the final year of my university studies. And like many, almost grads, you're scrambling, trying to find a job. So the honest truth about how I landed in this area was that I was applying for$200 different jobs in law, in whatever field, to be quite honest. And if I've learned anything from uni, it's that the coursework is very different to real life. And I thought if I just have a stone's throw, I'll get something and I'll make it work. And then you can just adjust from there. Turns out I landed in a job in estate planning and I was really good at it. So some eight years later, I'm still here. And it's the type of work that it's not just behind a desk for eight hours of the day. It's working with real life people and helping them problem solve. And it's not just me as a lawyer, but I work with other professionals to help that person and that client fulfill many goals in their life with the will is just one thing. So it brings so many different aspects together. And that's a long story short from a stone's throw to a successful career. And So interesting. And I've never actually chatted to a lawyer who specializes in wills before, but grief is such a awful, messy experience to go through. And so you kind of, by writing a will that is rock solid, that once you leave this earth, like everyone around you is kind of cared for and has like one less thing to worry about. I think that's a really beautiful gift to help your clients with. Let's start from the beginning though. Like what is the legal definition of a will? Yeah, so a will itself is a legal document that contains all of your wishes. It's legally binding and says effectively who gets what when I pass away, how they will get it and who is in charge of making sure that happens. So that will is that legal documentation that your executors and your beneficiaries will have to follow to make sure that your wishes are carried out. Okay. And could we just write on a piece of paper, like, whatever's left in my bank account goes to this person, any property I own goes to this person? Like, can you do that and call it a will? Short answer, no. That

SPEAKER_01:

would

SPEAKER_00:

be great. That would be looked at more of a wish. which is non-binding legally. So the will itself has some strict requirements in order for it to be a valid will, which means your wishes will be carried out by the court and your intended beneficiaries will get what you want them to. Some things are, if you just wrote it on a piece of paper, you don't have two witnesses to watch you sign. So that would be invalid. That's not a will. You have intentions there, but it's not binding on anyone. It could simply be a wish. And if it was to be argued in the court, whether or not this is a legally binding will or not, it wouldn't hold up. So unfortunately, no, having your intention set is great, but solidifying it legally is really that next step. So I always say that being aware of what you want and having that thought process about, okay, if something happens to me, I want someone to get my bank account. Great. Let's take the next step, which is legally making the will. because the hardest part is often thinking about who gets what. So the easiest thing really is then engaging the lawyer to get them to do the hard work. Yeah, okay. I like the sound of that. And then what happens if you don't have a will and you pass away either suddenly or it's just been something that you thought, I'll do it later, I'll do it later. I'm sure not many people plan to pass away without one, but it happens. What unfolds then? Yes. So speaking generally, because Australia doesn't have uniform succession laws, every state is slightly different. They're all very similar but slightly different in what the laws of intestacy say. Laws of intestacy is just a big fancy word that says if you die without a will, the law says who gets what. And depending on your own personal situation, it might not be the people that you want to inherit that will receive your estate. It's set out by the law because you haven't decided for yourself. So you're in this really grey area where everyone just has a free-for-all situation. Potentially. Yeah. Okay. And then say you do have a will in place, how do your beneficiaries find out that information? Like how do they get notified? Who do they contact? Like what happens there? Yes. Great question. And again, it's not uniform in Queensland or anywhere in Australia, but you need to know that it exists. So your executor is the key person in your will who will carry out your wishes. So you should advise them that you have a will, however you've done it, so that that person knows if you pass away, all right, they did a will, this is who it's with or where it's held. If you do it with a law firm, they'll keep it in their safe custody, but keep a card somewhere. Keep it in a black box. I don't know, older clients keep it in a drawer in the kitchen. Some clients will leave it on a note on their phone or a laptop. So There's no one place to go to, but you have to know where to look or that something did exist. Okay. And what sorts of things do you include in a will? Like, I guess there's some obvious ones that come to mind, like, okay, anything in my bank account, maybe properties, but should you also list your pets, like your clothes? Like what's the scope there? Yes, yes. Great question. So there's two main parts to estate planning. Your estate are items and things in your personal name that forms part of your estate. Assets solely owned by you, not with other parties such as spouses. Then there's non-estate assets. So assets that don't automatically form part of your estate, such as superannuation, and that's dealt with very separately. So assets that we're talking about in your will are personal items, your clothing. If you've got a handbag collection, you've got some expensive jewelry, your cars. We're looking at... properties in your own name. That also means the debt attached to that property because you're liable or your estate is liable. Bank accounts, share portfolios, anything that you solely own in your name is what's forming your estate. So that's the things that we can account for. And pets are a big one, particularly with COVID. Everyone's now got a fur baby and it's a real thing. These fur babies are now four and five and people couldn't imagine their lives without them. So you can specifically list in your will who gets Harry the poodle, you know, and do we give Harry the poodle, whoever's going to take him on, like, do we give them a cash sum for looking after him in his life? It's a really big consideration. Yeah, interesting. And I feel like the answer should be yes, but do you technically need to ask people before putting them in your will? Like some of those things would be a life-changing gift, but some might be a bit of a liability. Like if you inherit a fur baby and you don't really have a home that can accommodate and things like that. Yeah. Conversations are important. They absolutely are. You do not have to ask. But I mean, if you don't ask, you're setting yourself up for potential failure and heartache. So where clients don't ask or they don't have the opportunity to, or everyone's just busy, so they just forget. I always suggest having some substitutes, some other options so that that gift, particularly your dog, doesn't fall over and go to no one potentially. So if this person can't, then I give it to this person. If you've got that option, I'll pop that in. Yeah, okay. And at what age should you technically write a will? Now. Today. Now. Today. Okay. Today's action item. However old you are, start today. Okay. Okay. Is it kind of like a once you turn 18 sort of thing? Or should children have a will if they have assets in the name? Like, I don't know. Yes. So definitely 18 plus you have to be so you can legally give away and have the capacity to make those decisions and know what you're doing. 18 onwards. And after that, really, we want to start doing changes or really considering the quality of our will and what the needs are of our beneficiaries as they get older. And as we get older, so some milestones for people might be buying their first home. Incredible, that's amazing, but you've now bought a property, your debt is increasing, which means your responsibility to service that and the people potentially involved in it with you need to have some security, okay? Then we look at having your first child, having a family, Now we're thinking about who else we're responsible for. And you know, your risk factors just keep increasing in some ways and your responsibility does as well. If someone feels like they don't want to leave their belongings to any friends or family for whatever reason, what options do they have? Like they could still write a will, I guess, but where does that stuff go? Every situation is different. And depending on who your dependents are, if you have any, The law says that you should provide for certain people. So your dependents, children, spouses, anyone that's dependent on you, there's a list of them, okay? If you don't want to leave it to those people for one reason or another, you're estranged, you don't agree with the way that they live or what they're doing or you think they'll just squander your hard-earned money, you can leave your will to whoever you like. It just means that they might be challenged, okay? So someone might say, well, I should have got more because I was the child or I I was the dependent parent, which we're seeing more and more of, okay? So I should have got more. I'm going to make a claim against the estate. So it's not ideal in that case, and people need to know the risk factors that your wishes can be challenged if you don't try and mitigate the risk of that. And other options are gifting in your lifetime, giving things away, donating to charities in your lifetime, things that mean your estate, which is everything that you own, there's less of it to make a claim against. Okay, really interesting. And I feel like in movies sometimes you see this really dramatic like, I don't know, family dynamic play out of I'm going to contest the will and everyone's got their lawyers and it's in court and stuff like that. Is that what the reality of contesting a will looks like or talk me through what in real life it kind of is. In real life anything can happen and I think on screen is very dramatised but I've also seen families fight over things$200,000 just as aggressively as they would over a$20 million estate. You know, it really comes down to the people you're dealing with being your beneficiaries, how litigious they might be, whether or not your will has accounted for all these different moving pieces and tried to mitigate those risks. Because when you look at why they're trying to make a claim, there's usually some sort of reason behind it. And In most states in Australia, the estate will bear the cost of that litigation. So it often can be a free-for-all because they'll say, oh, well, it's not my money. The estate's paying it. I can see how that gets very messy very quickly, especially when you're grieving. How long after someone passes away does their will typically get looked at and their estate get debuted at? Yeah, again, slightly different time limitations and restrictions for each state. But generally, we're looking at six to 12 months because we have to, depending on the size of the estate, it might need to go through the legal process of probate, which is just validating that will if they had one and making sure that it's valid. It's not written on a napkin and it is actually signed with two witnesses and it's got legitimate executors and wishes that can be carried out in that will. So every state is different. Larger estates often take longer because of the assets you're working with. The amount of beneficiaries could take a long time. But if you say, Abby, in the most simple form, when would someone look at the will? It could be the day after they passed. Reason being is there might be funeral or cremation instructions, and that's something that is really time urgent. So they'll want to call their lawyer or they'll want to pull out the will out of the kitchen drawer and say, Abby, Did mum have any wishes about her funeral? I've got no idea. Maybe mum looked after it. And there's often clauses in the will that will relate to those instructions. But others where it's not something around the funeral or cremation, it may take weeks or months, really whenever the children or whoever the beneficiaries are are ready to face that and to really step into that, okay, what's next phase and try and move through the estate. Okay. And... What are some common mistakes you see either, hopefully not your own clients, but you see being made when wills are getting written? Yeah, I see a lot of poor drafting where people think it's straightforward and they just do, but they don't think behind it. And it often comes from not having that conversation with someone that can guide you around what the risks are, who may bring a claim, what your actual personal situation is. So do you have some uncomfortable family dynamics that you want to work around? And are you actually addressing them appropriately? Or are you just meeting with a lawyer, not really having that uncomfortable conversation? And out of whatever it is, maybe fear or embarrassment, or it's just difficult to face. that they just put together something because you told them and you're not getting any advice on those things. So it's poor drafting and not taking advice or getting the appropriate advice that you need. Yeah, wow. So you're really kind of playing the role of like a family therapist, financial advisor in some strange ways. And then, yeah, wow. Okay. Complex. I'm sure every client is different to

SPEAKER_01:

work

SPEAKER_00:

with. They are, yeah. And often... Often some of the key things for clients, it's not who gets what that's the hard thing or how, but it's the uncomfortable conversation and the pain point that they haven't wanted to talk about before or they've never said out loud to anyone. And that's the part that you sit there for 30 minutes just unraveling that and then what they actually want to do is so much more straightforward. And in my mind, I know how to get there for them and how to legally make all of these things happen But it's been such a mountain for them to try and even speak the words before they can overcome it. Yeah. Okay. And then what if you've written like life throws curveballs, right? So what if you've written a will at this point in life and then things change? So either you've then got a different partner, you've got a child or like just things change. How is that handled? Like if your will hasn't been updated in a few years, but your life has significantly changed, like what's the legal process around that? Yeah. So Some key things. I always say that if anything happens to any of your key people in your will, whether they pass away, the relationship with you is no longer a good one, they're not suitable for the role of executor, or something just terrible happens to them, we must meet again and we should review it. Because the will, while when it's drafted, it should be flexible enough to move with your life within reason. If those curveballs come, you can't always accommodate them at this point in time. So some options are to have different levels and substitute. So if this gift fails, then this person receives it. If this executor can't taper on the role, then I've got a substitute executor. So we can account for flexibility as best as possible, but always good to either do a spot check yourself and say, look, does my will achieve the goal I want it to if this thing happens or this changes? Or do I need to sit down and actually redo it because it's such a material change?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. And then you've mentioned the role of executor a few times. Can you explain to us exactly what that involves so it can help us choose like who should be my executor or if you ever end up as executor, like just what is that? It's a huge job. It's a huge job. And it's the person that gets all of the hard work done. Okay. So it's a really admin burdensome role because what they'll do is they'll The executor is in charge of making sure everything in your will is carried out as you want it to. So that means calling in all your assets once you've passed away. So writing to the banks, reaching out to a real estate agent, reaching out to the share registry and telling them, hey, this person's passed away. I need those assets to now come here to the estate because then I'm going to distribute it to the beneficiaries. So they call in. They get the pool and then they distribute out based on what the will says. So who gets what. The executor's also in charge of defending any claims against the estate. So they're going to be in the hot seat if you've got any disgruntled beneficiaries.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. That's a heavy, heavy task to give to someone. And I'm guessing as a lawyer, you kind of work hand in hand with

SPEAKER_01:

the

SPEAKER_00:

executor to make sure that everything's carried out legit. And I'm sure this wouldn't happen often, but the executor doesn't just keep everything and not distribute. Like how does that process work and how long does it typically take? Yes. So I would work with clients that are executors and help them as much or as little as they need. Some people love this stuff and they will just be go for gold and get it all done quite well and get the legal documents done in the background by us or others are too busy and it's also just too much to face what's happened. So you're dealing with the loss of a loved one and then you've got to deal with all of the admin that comes from that and still manage your own life and responsibilities. So it can just be too much. That's where we can help and come in to do that admin role for the clients and always account back to the beneficiaries. People will sometimes even say, look, it's just too much. Do everything and we can. Okay. How long does it take is really based on how big the estate is and how complex or difficult the beneficiaries want to be. If there's any challenge to the estate, it could take years because you can't move anything. You can't distribute until that's finalized if it's a legitimate claim. But most estates should be wound up usually within that 18-month mark. You're probably looking at having everything finalised and you really want to start having it off the books. You've closed everything down. The beneficiaries have received their distribution and everyone can kind of move on with their lives. I feel like I've seen in some movies some weird things where, you know, it'd be this– multi-billionaire leaves different things to people in their family but they set like some weird challenges and stuff of like you will receive this if you achieve that like is that real like does that could that actually happen like it sounds fun and I have clients that will see me and say Abby I hate their spouse and if they're still married to such and such they don't receive an inheritance from my estate

SPEAKER_01:

okay okay

SPEAKER_00:

the trouble with that like I get it I get it let me help you achieve that by not putting this very conditional clause in the will because things like that can't legally be upheld you can't put a condition on whether or not someone is still married to such and such as a conditioned for them to receive an inheritance? The law says no. But we can do other things like structure that inheritance to say that child so that the spouse that they hate has less of a chance of ever getting their hands on your daughter or son's money. And we can protect it in that way. There's different strategies. So your problem you're telling me is I don't want that person to get anything. They're married to blah, or I don't like their taste in fast cars. They'll blow all the money. I get it. That's your problem. How do we... make that legal. That's another thing and we can achieve it. It's just a different approach. Okay. And then I've also sort of heard people saying like, oh, I'll leave this amount of money, but it has to be used for X. Is that legally binding or can it just be like a wish, I suppose, rather than a legal requirement? Yes. So there are so many ways to go about it. There's no one size fits all. What you can do is have a letter of wishes that documents your intention for that money and how you would like it to be spent at particular ages or particular things that that beneficiary might need. If you're not here, you would like them to receive X on their 21st birthday. You want them to buy their first home. That can be a wish that's not legally binding. If, however, there are beneficiaries that need protection from themselves because they're spendthrift or they're They're gamblers or they're addicts and they actually need help from themselves or perhaps they're just vulnerable and someone else might try and take advantage of them and that inheritance. Then we can legally in the will establish like protective trust and really strong means of looking after that fund for that beneficiary that will be managed by someone else that will make the decision. and be guided by what that beneficiary needs and release money at A, B and C for X, Y and Z reasons. So we can be as strict and certain or as wishful and lenient as we want, but depending on It's the person that you're leaving it to, what their needs are.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Gosh, so many things to consider. And are there any myths around wills that you commonly hear that you would love to just bust right now? Myth busted. Okay. A will is watertight. I'm just going to put it out there. Nothing is watertight because everyone can have a go, but we can always strengthen it to make sure that it's as tight as can be. We are working within the realms of the law and also creative storytelling. So some people might want to try and say they've got a greater argument for something if they weren't actually entitled to it. So while we try and make it watertight, it's not always possible, but we try our best. That's a good question. It doesn't have to be scary, actually. I'll put that one out there. It doesn't have to be scary. And you don't have to have all the answers. Sometimes people think they can't go see a lawyer. I won't spend the money because I don't know. So they don't do anything. And often that first meeting will give them advice, will give them options, things that The lawyer, we don't expect you to have the answers to because you don't deal with this every day. Tell us your story. Tell us your goals. And we'll give you some options based on those scenarios.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay,

SPEAKER_00:

great. And I'm sure a number of people are thinking like, okay, I need to be an adult. I need to be responsible. I want to get a will written with a lawyer. Ballpark, I'm sure every lawyer is different. But what kind of price range are we looking at to create a will with a lawyer? Yeah. So... A range would be somewhere between, I would say,$900 to$5,000. Really based on the complexity and the quality of your will, you could get a very simple, straightforward will for the lower end of that. And the most important part, what you're paying for, is the advice, meeting with the lawyer. And that will get you as much as you need with a simple will. When you start talking about protective trusts and testamentary trust to try and bolster the strength of that will and also the beneficiary's inheritance and protections, we start adding on a little bit more levels of complexity. It will also change based on what your own personal estate looks like, whether you have family trust, you've got companies we need to account for. All of these things are complex but ballpark between let's say$1,000,$5,000 and then based on complexity outside of that. Okay and I guess before you go and see a lawyer you should probably get a few bits of information ready. What do you advise people have ready before they come and see a lawyer? Yeah so the best thing is when you've got a financial planner or an accountant or both and they are aware of your circumstances. They work with you every year at least when you're reviewing those things. It's nice to work with people all on the same page because we're all looking after your same interests. Now One step further removed from that is knowing what's in your bank, knowing what your mortgage is, what the debt you have on that, what you owe, looking at your superannuation as well. That's a big one for young people and what life insurance you've got attached to that super. Because often for young people, the biggest asset outside of their property is going to be their super and the life insurance attached to it. which they may not have ever checked before. And as I said, super is a non-estate asset. So we've got to deal with that separately, but it's a part of this estate planning and the will conversation. Okay. And you mentioned inheriting debt before as well. And I'm hearing all these things about intergenerational debt might become more and more common in Australia with house prices rising. What do you do if you've inherited someone's debt? Like, how do you navigate that? Because that might feel pretty heavy. Like, I'm sorry, what? Yes. So... One of the first things in a will and what has to be cleared off is debt by the individual. So debts should be cleared unless, say, for instance, a beneficiary wants to take that property and that property has the debt attached to it. Now, if a beneficiary wants to take that property but that's the only asset in the estate, it might have to be sold in order to fund the rest of the gifts. That beneficiary could take that on, take on the property, and then somehow fund the rest of the whatever the mortgage is left over because they'd have to effectively buy out the other beneficiaries if they're not selling it. So if they want to keep a property, they'll either have to clear off the debt and sell it or take it with the debt and maybe mortgage that as well themselves. There's a lot of options, but... Where beneficiaries can't afford to take on that debt, they have to sell the property because the bank is the first person that wants their money back and will often not transfer that loan to someone else. Well, I mean, it's up to the bank at the end of the day, actually. So who knows? Okay, so interesting. And now I've got all these different forms of debt running through my mind. So I guess it would also be credit card debt, like car loans, after pay, like all these things. All of those things. And you know what I'm saying is that debt collectors, particularly with buy now, pay later schemes, are becoming... very debt hungry. They want their money back and they're now engaging other groups that will specifically work on debt collecting for them. The business is not even doing it. They're outsourcing it and they're getting quite aggressive about it. So where the estate has some money left to fund, it might've been a beneficiary you want to leave. If there's a small estate and you've got$20,000 in your bank, but you've got$25,000 worth of debt, the debt collectors will be coming after that first. So the estate could effectively be insolvent, which means there's nothing there. So it can get really messy because debts are one of the first things that have to be cleared before anyone gets anything else. okay everyone's gone from thinking like oh it's the dream to inherit all this money but it's like oh do I definitely don't want to inherit the debt we've talked about some of the risks that can happen we've talked about some of the challenges but what does a good rock solid will look like like the listeners that are listening to the reset podcast they are high achievers in life and I'm sure they're going to be high achievers like afterlife and they want to set up their friends and family for success so So what does great look like? Yes. So great looks like having the conversation and really asking yourself, what do I want to achieve? What's important to me? Who do I want to benefit? Once you've done that, let's put it into writing. Let's formalize it legally through the will because you want to make sure that you're not leaving a heartache for your loved ones and that all of your hard-earned money, so everyone out there, we're working so hard, you want it to go to the people that you intend it to. And not for the government to say, this is actually who gets it because you didn't do a will. So it's really important to put your words and thoughts onto paper, legitimately have that will formalized, and then you know where it's going to go and what you're working for. Yeah, great points. And if someone's listening and they're thinking, okay, I know I need to create a will. I don't yet have the money saved up to work with a lawyer. What's the interim plan? Like I've seen some different online templates and things like that. Like how can you do something that's kind of, it might not be great yet, but it's good. Yes. I will say this to everyone is that something is better than nothing. Something legally valid is better than not doing anything at all because you've taken all the control out of your hands. So there are a lot of online platforms that will provide you with easy to understand rough documents without the legal advice but that's why it's more affordable but it's generally you can't go too wrong as a starting point and then when you're in a better position and financially your responsibilities are risks or decreasing come back and bolster it you can only make your will better if you have something to start with and then down the track just add the protections bolster the will make a better version But I'd say to everyone, just don't let the price stop you. Get something in place. And then as life goes on, upgrade. We always want to upgrade. The will is something we should and need to.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay,

SPEAKER_00:

great advice. That's something I think, yeah, as much as we want to put our head in the sand and think I'm going to live forever and that's not going to happen to me, it's probably something we should all put on our to-do list for this month. You are always flying between different cities, different states. Like life looks pretty busy for you as thriving as your business is. Like I'm sure sometimes you get exhausted. What's your favorite way to hit pause and just reset? This one is a great question. And I have some random explanations and examples, but I'm going to go there. So on a busy day when I'm back to back meetings and there's almost no time or I haven't made the time, a cheat sheet for me is going to the bathroom and running my hands under hot water. In Melbourne, it's cold. It's freezing. So it's actually such a little treat to stand in the bathroom and just have the hot water running on your hands and actually having a moment to breathe. I know that's so random. It's like a hand spa, like sauna spa experience for your hands. I know, honestly, try it. Everyone's like, what the heck, Annie, but it works. But please not too hot, guys. Do not burn your hands because of Annie's advice here.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Please don't do that. Okay, okay, yeah. So that's a really easy win. The other ones are walking. I love going for walks without music really just to take it all in, switch off, and when I've got more time and I've made the time is doing Pilates. I'm loving that. It's tough but fair, I think, Pilates. You don't necessarily sweat but it's still really hard. Can confirm. Yeah, and you don't feel– You feel dead, but not like you can't do anything afterwards. So it's a nice, happy medium. So there you go. There's quite a spectrum. We've got the full spectrum. Okay. And we've covered a lot of ground today. Is there anything we haven't spoken about that you think more people need to know? Particularly to do with Wills. Yes. I think just start, just ask for any listeners for Reset. please reach out to me on Instagram or LinkedIn. I always want to be approachable and someone that if you've got a question, just ask it. I'm not going to charge you by the minute or by the hour. Like, please, if I can point you in the right direction, I would love to. So just ask the question. Yeah, beautiful, great advice. And we will put links in the show notes to your Instagram, to your website, to your LinkedIn, all the good stuff. And I know you share a lot of valuable tips on Instagram each week. So it's a really good place to start. Abby, thank you so much. I have learnt a lot today and I think everyone else has too. Thank you for making a topic that can feel quite heavy, feel a little bit lighter. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much, Ash. Thank you. Thank you.