Shaun Leleu • Small Luxury Hotels of the World

We hear a lot about hospitality design and luxury experiences from within the architecture and design world, but what about the perspective of someone on the hotel side of things? Chairman of Small Luxury Hotels of the World, Shaun Leleu, joins the podcast during a visit to Australia to discuss the crossovers between hotel experiences and good design.

STORIESINDESIGN

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

So, Sean, welcome. Thanks for joining me today here in Sydney. I've just been explaining off air that our default, our bread and butter for this podcast, is architects and designers, but the whole thing has been set up to have people who are a little bit peripheral to that, um, to those specific roles, right? So today I have you as a guest uh particularly to talk about the world of hotels, and we'll probably get into a little bit about hotel design. To begin with, could I ask you to introduce yourself and tell me what your current role is, please?

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Yeah, so um I'm Welsh. Uh my name's Sean Lelude, Chairman of Small Luxury Hotels of the World. I've been uh in that role for the last 11 years, but I've been in hospitality for uh 35 years actually on the on the actual operations side and been involved in a lot of uh acquisitions, conversions, renovations. Uh so I've had a lot of close and experience of operating hotels as well. And then obviously the brand, we've got an amazing collection, and I've been chairing that brand for the last decade.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Great. Can you tell us a bit about the brand actually? Um a bit about its story and background.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Yeah, so it was founded back in about 35 years ago, actually. We're celebrating that anniversary now. And basically it was just, I think uh the small hotels is very challenging for them in terms of distribution and reaching the market. So uh pooling hotels together, giving them access to distribution, access to the travel trade, and certainly helping them out in terms of technology in every uh in every aspect that we can. So that started started fairly small, um, expanded significantly in the US and in Asia, and now we're up to uh 670 hotels. So it's been a sort of gradual expansion and just trying to get as much uh coverage of the globe as possible for sort of affluent uh travelers that that want to experience something different from from your traditional brands.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Okay, and so on well, and to stay just briefly on that personal level, your story begins in Wales. What's the what's the initial spur to end up where you are today? Is it is it the travel element? Is it the specifically the hospitality or hotel element? Is it the luxury aspect? Is it even elements of the design focus?

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Actually, not definitely not luxury because I uh I my aspiration was to become a professional tennis player. So actually the last time I was in Australia was uh 33 years ago, and I was player coach at the Australian Open Tennis Championships in Melbourne. So I travelled extensively uh with tennis, loved it. Um and then when I finished my education, sort of like many went backpacking around Asia, Australia. I just loved being in different environments, loved being out of my comfort zone, um, just getting all manner of experiences that I could. And obviously, then hospitality, even at all levels, attracted me. And um then I got into I went into finance and enjoyed the sort of I ordered at a couple of hotels and enjoyed the financial aspect of hotels. It actually fascinated me. Um, and then I got into hotel operations in Spain, actually, where I originally was uh set up to become a professional tennis player in Spain, and that was the connection with Spain, tennis, travel, and then someone I met bought some hotels in in Spain and started working for that family, and that family now owns small luxury hotels of the world.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah, right. What an interesting, unexpected uh turn of events in some ways. You never know where sport's gonna take you in life.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

I've I've read a little bit about you and and was quite fascinated because I'm you know Welsh rugby background, rugby league, and yeah, how the different crossroads you reach in life and how yeah, how sport can also um put you into those sorts of positions where you make changes.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Yeah, and obviously more and more involves travel these days. Uh what exactly does bring you to Sydney on this occasion then?

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Well, I've come for a small luxury hotels of the world sales event. Uh we had one two nights ago in Melbourne, we've got another one tonight. We've got 11 hoteliers from uh actually two from Europe and and the rest sort of from from Asia and one from Australia. Um, but I did actually come also to to the Australian Open Tennis. I hadn't um hadn't been for a long time. Um one of our clients uh at our hotels in Marbair is Novak Djokovic. Uh he trains at the tennis club and kept saying, well, you know, why don't you come out and to the Australian Open? Obviously, won it 10 times. So I thought it might be his last time. So I actually came out came out for that uh originally. So I was there for the semis in the final uh and quarterfinals and then uh stayed on for this week, uh, which we've got these two events, Melbourne and Sydney. And it's just yeah, it's wonderful to be back in. I can't believe I left it so long, to be honest, to come back to Australia. Yeah, things have probably changed quite a lot in uh three decades and more, actually, as well. And yeah, Melbourne really did find a big change with the riverfront there, and yeah, and Sydney's just a spectac it's just a spectacular city.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Okay, well let's turn to I I'm gonna try to turn to a bit of design first and foremost. That's not to put you to to grill you about the nitty-gritty of uh design details, but what I'm interested to talk about is the the really big picture crossover between hotels and the hotel industry and luxury travel and the importance of design. So to start with that really kind of zoomed out um big picture, can you talk a bit about why good design is so important and why it's so tied up with what you do?

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yeah, looking actually at the hotelies that are travelling with us this week, so we've got eleven, I think there's three architects in the group that have uh basically converted their own, you know, either private homes, farms, uh estates into hotels. Um so they are they're sort of communicating their vision of a hotel through the design that they've that they've uh they've managed to put sort of emotion into the into the properties. I think that with our group, uh small luxury hotels of the world, that will happen a lot. You've got owners that that basically want to create something often in their the original places they're from, and um that statement they make through through the design and architecture, creating that sense of place. Um there's a heavy element of emotion, I think, in hotels as well. And I think that the the design features, the interiors, the flow, um, right from when you first you first come into a hotel, you should you should be moved by a hotel, I think. Uh it shouldn't just be a it should you should l leave with something. So I think I think design is design is fundamental. And it's not just about look and feel, it's it is about emotion. It is about some hotels having a soul and and um basically leaving you with uh leaving you with the feeling that you've had that local experience as well, the authenticity of the experience. So for us, I think we got involved in the brand 11 years ago. Um we looked at design hotels, which was very much every single hotel they had was making a design statement, and uh we felt that that should be something we would embrace more. So we've looked for you know very different hotels, um, even within the same dis destination like Paris, you'll find very different, even though they've all got a sense of place, different parts of the town, you'll find they reflect where they're from. So uh so I think it's it's critical now. I think it's expected by by guests that that that there is they want to be fascinated by the design, they want to take something away from that experience.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Yeah, that idea of actually being fascinated and grabbed by the design, and as opposed to something that you don't notice is really interesting. That let me just ask you that you mentioned that idea of you know quote unquote the design hotel. That's something that is I don't know how long the concept's been around, but on one hand it's a little bit strange because you know every every hotel worth its salt has been designed in some form. What what like what does it as an expert in this kind of fearless industry, what does it mean to you to have this specific carved-out thing of a design hotel, as opposed to the expectations of what you should have in general high-end travel?

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yeah, I think when you when you go back to the start of sort of the your major brands of and what they were trying to create similar experiences within the hotel so that the travellers felt comfortable in the initial sort of Pan Am intercontinental days. And I think now that um we've we've got the opportunity with our hotels with uh they're they're smaller, so I think uh you you've got they've got more scope to make a statement. But if you if you're having to build you know 100 rooms or so, that that does handicap you. So I think that a lot of a lot of uh owners want to communicate their design in terms of um the eventual look and feel of the hotel, but I think it's it's about personality and emotion a lot of the time, so the and and sense of place. So so it's not so much about well, this is this is a standalone look at this amazing creation. It's more about how does that integrate with their environment, how does that integrate with the community, how does that create a sense of place when someone's inside the hotel. So I think it's moved on from making a statement to actually creating experience and communicating emotion, communicating sense of place with the materials with local craftsmanship. So I think it's more about a story than actually just looking at at a at a piece of architecture or piece of interior design.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Yeah, like specificity of place. Um let me ask you a bit about to dig into this SLH, small luxury hotels, um, the small part in particular. And I guess I'd like to ask you in connection to that the importance of things like connecting with local designers. Can you talk to me about the connection with the I guess the smallness, if that's the right way of putting it, or or at least the uh connection to specific local places, and then the importance or otherwise of uh local designers who might have those kinds of connections that you reference, you know, local craftspeople or um understanding of the environment and so on.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Yeah, I think well, obviously we've got small in the name, so we we we really see ourselves as a home for for the small hotel years. So we will take you know hotels with less than that's less than 10 rooms, and and as I said earlier, it's about uh the origins of the brand is about helping them reach, you know, get distribution and access to market. Um obviously the there are a lot of a lot of these uh examples we have, for example, lawn retreat we have in um in Melbourne, where it's been in the family for 150 years, they're integrated seventh generation, they're totally integrated locally. So it's it's a natural progression for them to kind of honour the tradition, honour the local craftsmanship, uh, and be able to tell that that story culturally for someone traveling, that they that they feel that they've they've been integrated in a place. So I think I think that connection to to local craftsmen, local designers, local architects is key, because then they will understand they'll understand the materials and understand the light, they'll understand the place, and they'll be able to create a fully integrated experience, which if someone's coming, a designer or a craftsman coming from elsewhere, may have the expertise, but they won't they won't know in terms of sourcing materials quite as well. Uh they won't they won't know how things work necessarily locally. Um the storytelling, the art, the artwork as well is quite fundamental. So I think that if you want to if you want to create something that's a that's a full experience, then then you need all those touch points for someone. We're looking at not just where food is coming from sourced locally, but also the materials within your room, the fabrics. I think people want to feel that they're having that they that they take away something really local in every single aspect of the experience they have in a hotel. So therefore, your start point is is the design and the architecture, that that must feel it's giving a sense of place and also what you touch and feel and how you live and how you move around the hotel, what you eat, um, even down to the ambience, music, everything, you want to feel like you're in that, you're thoroughly immersed.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You can imagine what it would be like if uh if those points of immersion are off and not specific to place. Uh, to make one point that that comes to mind from what you're saying, this is very much from me as a non-expert in relation to hotels. I know the design part, not the hotel part. You know, but it really seems like from the outside the the global hotel industry has a lot of kind of monopolization, or at least a lot of, you know, um a small number of really key players who are you know big, recognizable brands and they have hotels everywhere. How important is it or how conscious is it for you guys to set yourself up as a point of distinction to that kind of thing? Like is is that is am I right in thinking that's what you're doing?

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Yeah, 100% distinct from them. Yeah, not not not at all cookie-cutter approach. Obviously, we don't have big box hotels because you know we're too small for that. But yeah, we want to be we want to be different, we want to be authentic, um, independently minded hoteliers, independently independent travelers. So it very much is every every hotel is different. There's no there's there's consistency in terms of the standard, but not in terms of the the design, the architecture, look and feel. They're all they're all very, very different, even within the same place, even within Rome. You look at our portfolio in Rome, different locations within the city, uh, different type of design. So you'll we will provide that level of choice. I think what's important to note as well, which is maybe slightly unusual, we were we were pioneers in partnering with with a big brand in terms of distribution. So we we actually partnered with Hilton with their loyalty program, so that they've got I think they've got around 230 million loyalty members, and obviously they're earning points in Hilton hotels and in their group, and they've got some lovely hotels, but they're mostly big, mostly over 100 rooms. But then when they want a different experience or they want to use their points and redeem their points, they were struggling to find properties that their their high-end clients would want to go to. So we partner with them where they're able to book and redeem points at our hotel. So I'm actually seeing guests that are earning points or or used to business travel with a larger brand, but what they really want is our hotel. So we've got 500 hotels that you could actually book through that their platform, um, which kind of combines that that desire that people have for a different local experience, something completely different. And they know each each SLH will be very different. Um, so I think that uh we're in a very much in a sweet spot for what the luxury traveller wants. I I think that uh you know COVID certainly small was important. Um and I think that's what what people are looking for when they travel now. They're looking for a human experience, and obviously the larger hotel, the more difficult it is for human interaction. The owner, you you'll help you will meet the owner, you'll know the owner's store in a lot of our hotels, or the general manager, you'll you'll you'll you'll have a much more intimate experience and much more authentic.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Yeah, it sounds like the demand or the desire, the demand is clearly there. It's just the question of distribution and access and linking all these parties up. Um I don't know whether this is the kind of direct experience that you would have, or maybe it's more secondhand, you know, dealing with all the um individual hotels that you that you work with. But I'm interested to ask about how the selection of a designer takes place. Like basically, how do these smaller luxury hotels, if they you know want to do a renovation or or whatever the case might may be, do you have any experience or thoughts on how they go about you know selecting or engaging the right designer? And and also I guess part of that is creating the right brief as well for this context.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

I think some, as I said, some will actually be have experience in that world themselves because I think it's a natural progression for someone who's architect, interior designer, they want to do something for themselves. Obviously, they need a budget for a hotel, but a smaller hotel they might be able to. So a lot will start with with them perhaps having the expertise. If it doesn't, and if they're purely someone that's always had a dream of having a hotel and wanted to buy and renovate a hotel, then they'll they'll have the still they'll have what they want to kind of communicate from an experiential perspective, and then they'll need to find someone that execute that. So I think they they will not go to a large design agency that will look for some, they will always look for someone local, uh usually within their sort of circle of circle of friends that recommendations, etc. They might look take inspiration from another hotel as well. So they'll try and source someone that they can work very close with, try and actually communicate what they're trying to achieve with the hotel. There's a bit of word of mouth to this word. Word of mouth to it a bit. I think also what you'll find is you won't have they won't use a hotel designer necessarily, they'll actually use they'll they'll use someone who they might have liked certain homes or certain work that they've done. So that's a challenge, which is making making the design, making the design actually work as well. Because obviously, if you design a restaurant, it needs to work as a restaurant, it can't just look great at the flow. Same with the hotel, the flow needs to work. So I think that they've usually had a lot of great hotel experiences. They've they've usually can put themselves in the shoes of the guests. So that that conversation between the owner's vision and the execution with the architect and interior design is critical. So I think they'll need to find someone they're very comfortable with that understands them rather than being imposed, having the design imposed on them by a company. They will look for someone to translate their vision.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Yeah, I feel like what what we see from uh design media side of things most often, on that first point that you made, is probably uh experienced hospitality designers being sought after in a hotel space. Um, because you also mentioned the importance of hospitality right at the beginning. So could you talk a bit more actually to the I mean there are some obvious connections, right? A hotel will have a real focal point of a bar or a restaurant or whatever. But what kind of crossovers are there here with hospitality and hotels, hospitality design specifically, and um I guess this all merges into an emphasis on the experiential and memorable experiences in travel.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Yeah, I think that um you're you are looking you're looking to to visually you've got make you've got to make a visual impact, I think. So you will have uh it might it's not gonna be every single area that you're making that huge visual impact. So it might be it might be a restaurant, it might be one particular public area. Um it all does need to flow as well. So I I think that um if you've got a particular centerpiece, let's say, for example, uh uh it might be might be a bar when you come into the hotel, it might not necessarily be a standard reception desk. You could be you could be be hit with a different flow and a different look and feel as you go into an SLH hotel rather than you would in a larger hotel where you've got reception on your right, concierge on your left, it will be very different. There might not even be a check-in desk. You might just just walk straight into a lounge, uh, you walk in straight into someone's home. If you take Ethem in Stockholm or uh Villa Spoletti Trevelli in Rome, they are private homes basically. I think one was an arts and crafts townhouse, one was a one was a private home of a wealthy Italian aristocratic family. So you sort of you're you're literally knocking on the door, you're not walking straight in, you're going into a home, so so you you you you get a totally different experience there, I think. Um the way that the way they've designed it, the artwork they have, the pieces they have, maybe that have been their family for generations. Um so I think that you're you're you're gonna be visually hit from every every aspect when you when you come in.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

And so we've to to step back slightly to the bigger picture again, right? We've talked a lot here about the importance of good design in what you do. And I can't help but ask the the flip side to that question, right? Which is what happens if the design element is wrong? Like what happens if you not not you personally, but what happens if a brand misses the mark, has the wrong designer, it misses the point about having a local connection with the design? Now I'm not asking you to reference any particular projects that have gone wrong, but you know, in principle, what kinds of what are the pitfalls here? Like what goes wrong if a smaller luxury hotel and its whole emphasis on story and connection to place, what can go wrong if you if the design elements in particular are off the mark?

SPEAKER_01 19:26

I think it depends on the individual. It can go wrong for some individuals and it might be right for others. So I think with our with our portfolio, they are they are very different. And because they're small, they're not uniform. So so there will be different designs that will that some people might might not necessarily might not it's not one size fits all, so it might not be that said that each customer has the same experience as what they're necessarily expecting. So it's not necessarily that the design may have gone wrong in the hotel. It may just be that's that's not that guest wasn't looking for that type of experience. They were looking for something maybe more modern, something more traditional. So we try to communicate that with the different offerings that we have. I think if they get it wrong, you kind of just when you're in a hotel, you you just know, you just know from the flow and the feel that it might not be visual, but it might just be how how things move. You you can accept it. Something's jarred off. I'm you know, I'm not from a design background, but I will definitely know if something doesn't feel right. Um I think with with public areas, it's definitely there's definitely the flow and the light and the feel. Um with a room, it can be really, it can actually be annoying. If it's not, if it's been, it can look great, but if it's not functional, and if if you've got issues, for example, with I think a lot of the times people will be very ambitious with lighting and with with with technology. And if you're if you're in a hotel for two or three days, you haven't got time to work out every single element. If someone's going that down that route, you want it to be, you want it to be very easy. You want it, you want, you don't want to be having to work out how the shower works. So it's I think when it when it when the design is it maybe looks great, but then it's not functional, that's extremely annoying because you you you want you want things to work well, you want things to flow. If it's something that doesn't enter your eye and it's something you don't expect because it's it's not in keeping with the local culture, then it can kind of if it's out of sync with the local environment, it's not it's not comfortable. You you need to you need to wake up and feel like you're in that place. Um and if you don't, then you and you walk outside and there's not a flow, then that that can feel out of sync in your overall experience as well. Um and then it needs to need to be very it needs to be livable. You you want you want to have you don't necessarily want to feel you want to feel like you're in a hotel, but you also want to feel that have the homely feel, have that, you know, feel like you want to stay there for a long time and come back. So I think a lot of times people will sense that if it doesn't, if it doesn't feel right, they'll sense it. Because usually they'll have seen enough photography, enough content before they choose the hotel, so they know they probably hopefully will like the look and feel, but then if it doesn't flow, if it doesn't actually work for them, and if the experience in the room is not good, or the or or moving around the hotel, if it's not being planned properly the flow, then yeah, then it's uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Yeah, there's a lot in there about kind of feel and intuition. And a sense when you can just, well, sense that something's off. Let me turn to ask, oh, a bit of a concluding question, really, about this focus on design in relation to what you do. This might sound a little bit of a simplistic question in some ways, but it is there a way that you can see the world of travel and design coming together a little bit more? I asked that with what's in my mind when I ask that is the way that our publishing house, for example, has different publications for one for travel and several for design. Um everything that we've spoken about speaks to how those two worlds can't really be separated. Certainly not you can't take out the design from the travel and the hotel industry. So do you do you see any kinds of ways or do you feel strongly in any way that that these two kind of worlds could come into closer contact?

SPEAKER_01 22:59

I think you take inspiration when you when you travel. You expect to you expect to to be uh to have sort of designed architecture interiors. You you're expecting a different experience when you travel in general. So we had our our last SLH conference in Japan, and uh, and I wanted to experience uh, you know, Jap obviously Japanese famous for all manner of design, it wanted to stay in a Raya can and wanted to see the more modern. So so when when you get the experience from a hotel as well, and when when a hotel can make that statement, you can combine that, so you actually will get you'll get that experience in the hotel as well. I think that's there's this huge crossover there because you you're you're you're traveling, you're trying to expose yourself to to different designs, different architectures, different look and feel, and uh, and if the hotel can provide that as well and it's well integrated, then and it makes a statement, it makes a statement, it makes an emotional impact. Um and there's a story behind it. I think it it when the when there's a story behind the design, when it's not just not just a statement, it it makes a huge impact on you. And I think travel, travel opens your mind to that. And I would I would imagine that whilst we've talked about local craftsmanship and being being aware of sourcing materials and how something should look in a local environment, it is if you have that international exposure as well, and you have done that through travel, you have done that through staying in hotels. I think that I think that the crossover is very strong. And I think people will take they'll take things they see in a hotel, they'll want to put that there in their own homes, they'll want to, they'll they'll take take those inspirations. Uh, likewise a hotel you will take an inspiration, they may have seen seen some amazing architecture of a different type of building, they want to incorporate that aspect into the hotel. So I think there's there's there's huge there's huge crossover.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yeah, I can't help but imagine that when you when you you keep mentioning the importance of the story, that it's not just architecture nerds who want to hear the story of design of a local hotel. I think all of the clientele probably would would enjoy that. And I'm sure there's plenty of that already, but um perhaps some of the things.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Yeah, I think also we we do talk about hotels having a having a soul, you know, having that you you can you can sense something about obviously if a hotel's got a great history, you know, it's a longer history, some of our hotels have you know got massive history, then you can you can sense that in that past, you sense the soul, but also when when it's come from the individual that's that's created it, you can feel you can feel what they've created as well. You feel it's got it's got personality. It's not obviously authenticity is important and the local environment, but actually having having a having a personality, having a point of view and sensing that is key.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Okay, let's turn to the future and the future of luxury hotels. Um specifically with a kind of tension in mind, I guess, between the the local, the particular on one hand, and the global and the general. This is the I feel like this kind of tension structured everything that we've talked about today. What thoughts, opinions, predictions even do you have about the future of this industry?

SPEAKER_01 25:47

I think I'd refer more to the luxury element. I think that um that people's view of luxury has changed significantly. Um so I think there was the I think certainly experiences have always been been very key, as we've talked about. Um a luxury experience has changed dramatically. So it's not necessarily about the hardware, it's not necessarily about uh taking certain boxes that what hotels facilities should have. Um space, time, um sense of place, authenticity, that that's that's that's becoming more luxury than uh than the I think a lot of the other things are given, a lot of the basics for luxury are given. And we're having to we've created different collections within SLH, there's a considerate collection which is very much more sustainable, more local environment, more incorporated in the local community with a lot of significant criteria because that that's a luxury experience. Um we've got plenty of hotels where you wouldn't necessarily you wouldn't exp it's not even doesn't feel necessarily like a pure hotel experience. You are you're a totally integrated environment, you're in someone's home, and I think I think that's more more luxury than than than the than the previous definitions of luxury hospitality. I think the I think that that's that's changing across the board what people are looking for. And they are looking for emotions, something to take away. They're looking for they're looking for something that they'll that'll impact their lives, basically, and impact their lives, and impact other people's lives, and and kind of make them feel feel better about themselves from a from a hotel stay. It's not as perhaps as exploitative as before. And and and I think that uh luxury is changing, and therefore, you know, the hotel world has to change along with that and has to interpret what what what people are looking for when they're staying and what they want to what they want to get out of their their stay.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Well, this this this almost connect to the idea of moving past just the hotel stay, right? So I read a bit of stuff about how uh it's about taking the hotel stay away from just being a stay and being much more of a an experience and a cultural connector. Does all this tie into to what you're referring to with the evolution of luxury, I suppose, is one way of putting it?

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Yeah, and also I think human relations are important as well. I think that's why, as I said again, when you've got a small hotel, you've got you've got a greater chance of getting getting getting closer to guests than you have in a you know 200 bedroom hotel with with perhaps 400 people rounding out. It's it's very difficult to to get to have that that intimacy and that um creating relationships when you travel, I think, are key. If you it might just be one or two people that you meet, it might be someone actually in the hotel, it might be might be some some activity that you do, it might be whether you do yoga, wellness, which obviously is huge, massive growth market, but those are those are very much human. You're putting yourself in someone's hands, you're you're putting yourself in the experience where you might be more exposed. And and I think that the people want to to get out of their comfort zones now and want to want to feel their travel with purpose. Whereas before it was I want to stay in that hotel because it's X brand. I think now they want they want they've they they're coming with a purpose to their hotel stay, and that then they're gonna carry on that purpose in their everyday lives. So the human the human element is really important, I think, now.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Okay, yeah. And often the memories that you come away from a travel trip with of having interacted with someone like that are the most um the most striking.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Yeah, I think I stayed, I stayed at a hotel, I would wanted my son to to learn to swim properly. I think it's important. And um it was just a lifeguard, one of the hotels, and I said, Well, do you don't happen to to be able to teach swimming? How about to be a swimming teacher? And and you know, he connected really well with my son, he was in his teens, and um, you know, that for him made his holiday, and and and obviously then he's taken away and now now he's learned to swim properly in two or three afternoons in the pool and on the beach. And that was you know, that was the most memorable thing about that stay. Was that that individual, the connection he made with my son? The fact that there was a takeaway, came away with something he could then, you know, pursue going forward and have for the rest of his life. So swimming's a simple one, but it can be it could be meditation, it could be yoga, it could be something else that affects you spiritually. I think that you that you want from a hotel stay. You don't want to just come away saying, Well, I had a great meal and and it was a wonderful room. You actually want to, you know, make with someone you meet or something you do.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

Yeah. Yep. I'm glad you mentioned that because my my my final question to tie things up really was to ask about any anecdotes, such as exactly that one. Maybe more personal things or travel trips that you've had, places that you've stayed, favorite travel destinations, favorite cities, even favorite hotels. Are there any and any other anecdotes or any favorite places that you'd like to share to tie things up for us today?

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Yeah, I think that um I I tend to I tend to for I think probably for sport, a bit a bit like you, we we go pretty pretty quickly. We're used to being very programmed and training, so therefore to stop meditate and uh and to yoga, stretching, looking after your body. I think when you're on a hotel stay, if you can if you can actually when you look after yourself, I think it's key. So for me, um yoga was yoga was one that I did in one of the Maldives hotels that we have, which um was quite challenging because I didn't have a lot of flexibility, but uh, but I got a lot out of it. But a lot of the mental, I mean, I think I maybe fell over at one stage during the yoga. So it's just but uh but I took that away and I've you know I've now practiced that since. And um yeah, it was challenging, but I think it took yeah, it took me out of my comfort zone and gave me something that I could I could I could do at home basically. So it encouraged people to to you know move their boundaries a little bit and go out of their comfort zone when they travel and and to put themselves, you know, put themselves in that local environment to feel like they've really have you know traveled it. It's great being the other side of the world in Australia, even though we all speak English. I do speak other languages, but but it's yeah, it's it's it's wonderful to have that sense of being away, being out of your time zone, out of your comfort zone, in a different environment. Yeah, great.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Okay, well, on that note, thanks so much for joining me today, Sean. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to this episode of Stories in Design. Please subscribe and review, and you can find out all about what we do at indesignlive.com.