STORIESINDESIGN
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3daysofdesign • Roundtable Special
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In this Copenhagen special, Timothy Alouani-Roby is joined by four guests who recently returned from 3daysofdesign: Claire Delmar, Eva-Marie Prineas, Jason Gibney and Anton Assaad. Each hailing from different parts of the design community, they discuss the charm of Denmark's capital city, their memories of the event and what they think 3daysofdesign gets right in this lively conversation.
STORIESINDESIGN
Today's special roundtable episode is focused on three days of design, which was recently held in Copenhagen. I'm joined by four guests from different parts of the design community who were all in attendance at the Danish design gathering. Jason Gibney, Claire Delmar, Anton Assad, and Eva Marie Prinius. And as usual, I'm recording on Gaddy Country, but today a special thank you to the University of Sydney who are hosting today's podcast. Please enjoy.
SPEAKER_05Last year was manic. Absolutely crazy to the point where bike riders were almost running people over in the street because there was so many people on the streets. So I actually think this year was actually a more palatable, I think it was a better journey. How many have you been to Anton? I've been to them since they started. Right, I've got to be a little bit more. Okay, I've exhibited it a long time ago. So it's been interesting to watch it grow from nothing to what it is today. I do think they've done a great job. I think, you know, three days is um, I think they're really lucky. It's summer. Copenhagen's a beautiful city to be in in summer. Um, I think the way they've done it, which I think you experienced, even me, which was, well, basically, all of you did, which was, I think it's great to be walking around to the showrooms and not be stuck in a shed, which I think is just so draconian and backward and environmentally not okay, and building platforms that get thrown out and stuff. So I do think Coberna has a lot going for, and I think that's the reason why, a big part of the reason why it's been so successful.
SPEAKER_02So, what happened, what happened between last year and this year?
SPEAKER_05I don't know, I just don't think there was as I don't think there was as many people. I could be wrong. Same time of year? Yeah, and always the same date. Always the same date. It's always, it's actually last year they got into a lot of trouble with the Swedes because they did it on midsummer break, and the Swedes were livered. Yeah because their midsummer break is like the ultimate summer. That's the holiday of the year. Just across the border as well, isn't it? Yeah, and they agree. So it basically became two days of design last year. The Swedes were like, I'm not staying here, see you later, and they left. Interesting. So most of the Swedes exhibitors, there was like a skeleton stuff on the Friday. I don't know this year, I just and I'm not sure about the numbers, but I just felt it was more, it was easier to get around. I think it was more um, yeah, I don't think there was many, it didn't seem as as full on with people. I felt like when you were in showrooms you like with Dagmar or Moller, you actually got to spend time and it wasn't so full. You were like, you know, you're dragging them away from people all the time.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, I didn't find the city felt different to me. Oh, yeah. I've been my first summer in Copenhagen, I've been three times in winter.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_03So not at the at the festival. Yeah, yeah. I didn't feel, it didn't feel busier, it felt the same. Yeah, interesting.
SPEAKER_01Um I think that's the best part, isn't it? The whole Copenhagen experience is the fact that you do actually get to experience the city without also it being feeling like it's all been taken over.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely not.
SPEAKER_05I agree, Claire. I think that's a big part of it. I mean, we didn't, I I have to say, on a selfish level, we didn't go out to where some of the places that you guys went out to, whether it be Fritz or whether it be out to the docks and stuff, we didn't do that. But from what you said and a few other people said, there were some really good satellite things that were floating around the city, but you can probably talk to that more than me. I didn't really do that. How was that?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01I'm the same animal, I didn't see much.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you were stuck in a cupboard, Claire. Did you have something to do, Claire? She was busy her own.
SPEAKER_01I'm sorry, I can't I'm not gonna be able to comment.
SPEAKER_05No, that's it. But where you went out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, my our our experience was probably a little bit different to everyone's because I took um six people from a team and we planned it for such a long time, and we're really lucky we had um we had a a day with Fritz Hanson, which um we went to um Paul King's.
SPEAKER_05You got to go to Paul Camp South, which is pretty special. Unbelievable.
SPEAKER_02Well that his son lives there, and um to see that and to hear um his story. Um we went to um the Bellevue Theatre.
SPEAKER_05Which is extraordinary.
SPEAKER_02We went to the council chambers that Arnie Jacobson designed and the library. Um yeah, so we got to see we got to see all of that. We also planned other things that were separate to three days of design but very sort of architecturally based.
SPEAKER_05What was the thing you did that was it was it the environmental thing? That sounded really interesting.
SPEAKER_02HomeEarth. So Home Earth is um run by Rasmus Norgard, who um I heard speak last year in Sydney, and he's a developer, and he develops um build-to-rent, you know, low carbon, highly sustainable socially and economically. It's like triple bottom line. And we spent the day with them looking at their first development that they completed. The architect took us around the site. It's unrelated to three days of design, but it's related to the design.
SPEAKER_05It's about Danish, like the way they do things.
SPEAKER_02It's about the way they embed design everything that they do.
SPEAKER_00It's a general design pilgrimage for a lot of the people who go completely from what I've heard.
SPEAKER_05But what is how did you find the architecture and like the the ethos? And didn't you say you spoke to people who are living there or you've heard stories?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's about um so much more about what the difference, I guess, to hear is it's about investing in design um and then refining the design and then repeating it rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. I'm talking about multi-res, you know.
SPEAKER_03But I still think that'll be a Danish idea. You're tapping into something very Danish because the difference is.
SPEAKER_05When some things are resolved.
SPEAKER_03Well, if you look at Danish design and craft and things they brought to market, they endure, right? They resist the temptation to have to continue to renew and rebrand.
SPEAKER_05Well, I would say that's I think that's what a lot of classic and old school Danish companies are doing. But I am gonna say that I think a lot of the contingent. The newer ones are really, I think they're kind of fighting against it. Yeah. And I think a lot of them are not actually connected to with that true Danish tradition of what you're talking about with the architecture, or Jason, what you're talking about with design.
SPEAKER_03It'll be interesting to see how they how that sustains for five to ten years. And beyond, because when we're walking around Copenhagen and still being excited, walking into a building where they've got a USM model exploded as a pendant from the ceiling, I think it's wow, or you trip across, you know, the Finuule house and 1940s pieces, and you're sitting there and it goes extraordinary. It's still relevant and people are still interested.
SPEAKER_05I think the challenge for Danish design is the fact that like there's the money side, and obviously it's business, and everyone wants to make money. And there's the people who are running businesses that I think have integrity, have relevance, have history, they believe in what they're doing, like that guy's with the architecture you're talking about. And I think there's a bit of a kind of conundrum at the moment, to be honest, in Scandinavia about some of these companies that I think it's just about, you know, people making money. Yeah. And that's all good. I have no problem with that. But I I kind of take a bit of an issue with these companies that are like, it's gonna be made here now, it's gonna be made there now, and it's fashion. Is it fashion or is it is it actually contemporary design that is gonna be classic and timeless? And I think there's a real yeah, there's a bit of an argument going on between them.
SPEAKER_03It'll almost be a case with young creatives too, going, hey, where's our space?
SPEAKER_05Oh, I agree. I mean I totally agree. But I still think the young people and young designers can offer something that has integrity and value and relevance and a sense of classicness that is not going out of fashion. And I think what he's talking about with his architecture is a great example of that. Because if you look at some of the older designs, you know, they're all dead. People like Berg Morgensen, like, you know, when you designed a chest of drawers, it was designed specifically for amount of t-shirts, amount of underwear, amount because there was like that's what everyone has. Now, that isn't to say that you can't redesign that, but how do you do it in the context of a contemporary society? And I think what he's talking about with architecture is great because I think that is taking old Danish architectural traditions and simply contemporizing it today with an environmental edge. You know, I think there's a real challenge going on.
SPEAKER_00There are lots of endless themes to controversies and themes to talk about here. And what I'm going to do is um just take a step back to actually get everyone to introduce themselves so that we know who's this is great, because I yeah, well, I mean I have to say I'm I'm the odd one out in the in the in the room in the meeting here who's not been to Copenhagen in three days, so I'm here to learn from from you guys. But I just just as a quick whoop around um the room, I'd like to ask you two things. Can you each introduce yourself? And also I want one one memory that stands out from your visit this year. That could be one very specific place that you were, and maybe it was a sunset over the river, or maybe it was a drink that you had with a friend, or maybe it was a particular exhibition, but just one very specific moment that jumps out to you. And um, Claire, let's start with you, um, please, if you could introduce yourself.
SPEAKER_01Hello, I'm Claire Delmar. I'm an AT stylist and I work across residential and commercial projects. Uh I'd have to say that um I was in a very different situation this year given the fact that we were installing an exhibition of Australia, you know, 40 Australian designers. So to me, it was sort of more the chaos, the excitement, um, seeing it all come together. We planned it for over a year. So to open up that storage unit and actually empty this residential apartment was um quite a huge undertaking, something that we had thought originally we'd start off small and it grew into the 40 designers. So for me, it was more about the magic of seeing all of the Australian designers' works on display and seeing the sort of feedback and the amount of people that were coming through. Like the foot traffic was incredible. So that was sort of, I suppose, my take home was just yeah, the excitement for the Australian industry.
SPEAKER_00Great, thanks, Claire.
SPEAKER_02Hi, I'm Eva Marie Prinius, um, and I was at um Three Days of Design with my team. Um, I guess the memory for me, um, one of the most memorable evenings was a long table dinner that we um went to as a group, uh, and it was in an artist studio, and the artist was there, and um, we were having a drink to start off with, and she had collected all these um things that she liked and asked us each to choose one and go and wait in the dining room. And then we were seated based on what we'd chosen. So um there was that initial sort of trepidation who am I gonna be sitting next to?
SPEAKER_05She had sounded so cool.
SPEAKER_02We all had the best night. Um, and I met a couple of people, I met a Polish architect and I met a Danish artist who was also exhibiting. Um, and I invited them to Claire's exhibition the the following night. And they both turned up, and it was absolutely great. Um, I introduced um Christiane to Mr. Frag, who I actually taught him how to use CAD. He used to come into our studio 20 years ago because he wanted to learn how to use CAD, and I hadn't seen him since then. So bumping into him and then introducing him to my new friend was and I I feel like the the theme of the whole um of the whole three days was make this moment matter. And I just felt like everyone was doing that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, turned on site, it was so funny, worked down the street, didn't think he was exhibiting, and he had a whole window. Oh, that's hilarious. It was like, wow, to meet it.
SPEAKER_05Uh my name's Anton Asad. I'm the founder and director of Great Dane Furniture and uh Hestons Australia. Um I've been going to three days, I think, probably since it started. I even exhibited there one year, many years ago. I think for me, the moment I think that really resonated was um a small company we work with called Dagmar, and meeting a third-generation factory owner who is still making or is now making a chair that his grandfather made, I think in 1932. Um, Eva Marie came with her team, and what really resonated with me was the moment when one of their team lifted up the chair and showed the team how it was made underneath, and I could just see everyone in Eva Marie's team was like, I had no idea that that's how these products were made. And for me, that is very kind of powerful, and I think that's probably the most I thought that was a really lovely moment because I really felt like it just it did its itself. I didn't have to do anything.
SPEAKER_02And apparently that they used to cover that up and then they realized how beautiful it was. So they left it, yeah, they left it uncovered so you could actually see the little butterflies absolutely beautiful.
SPEAKER_05So for me that was a really lovely moment, and I think that's what I love about three days is when you see someone who's not been there or someone who has been there truly connect with a product because then they're like, Okay, now I get it, and I think that's really special, and I think that's what it's about. Awesome.
SPEAKER_01Um it's like you get that factory experience now.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Claire.
SPEAKER_03Um so my name is Jason Gibney. I I went, this is my third fourth trip to Copenhagen, but first time I went for three days. And I'll probably go with a little off script in my sort of memory that stood out because there's lots of design stuff. And on this on this trip, I actually took my eldest son with me. Oh no, he's living in Dublin, he's living obviously playing football at the moment. Cool. So he's chasing that dream, and I went, I was spent a bit of time with him and I said, You're coming with me to Copenhagen. Because I knew it was the only way I'd grab him for a couple of days and have them to myself. And I took him around a few bits and pieces, but um we we made a point of jumping on bikes, and I did a thing. Oh, it's a great thing to do. It really is. And look, I've been to a few festivals and it's a bit like travelling. I'm very careful not to fill an itinerary. I'm very conscious that you can get so caught up that you leave yourself no time to actually engage or reflect, or to bump in and trip up into a trip over something unexpected. Unexpected. So there was so much to see. I was like, well, I'm not gonna get to see everything, you've got to accept that. So I'd wiggle it down to these are the musts, yeah, these are the hopefuls, and leave space. But in the space, um, two things I did stood out. One, I've never been to Grunt Biggs Church for a while.
SPEAKER_05Oh wow, yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_03The profundity of that space stays with me.
SPEAKER_05It's an emotional experience, I think. I was really affected by that. I think that that stays religion in a different way. It really does. As a gift of a city.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. You know, I don't know if you know the story, but you know, he was a pastor and an educator and quite a reformist. He thought that everybody should have access to education, irrespective of your wealth status. And after he died, the city's gift was to build his monument as a legacy of six million yellow bricks, create this space that just the way the light bounces off these corners, zigzag bricks and vaults. It's just it's beautiful. And then, of course, you've got the you've got the you've got the classic timber chairs, yeah.
SPEAKER_05The Kicklin chairs, the saunas, everything about it.
SPEAKER_03So that was beautiful, and then the other one was at the end of our three days. My son kept saying, Are we gonna do one of these saunas? Yes, floating, so because those saunas all the saunas, so all scattered around.
SPEAKER_05I thought you said a song. I was like, Oh, it's really going off screen.
SPEAKER_03So we did that. Um so so you know, the floating saunas, many of them, and he was doing all the research. Actually, he was really quick to have him. I'm usually the one who finds where's the coffee, where's the pastry? But he was all over that. So no, TikTok says we go this way. So we went this way. That's good. But we went to this particular sauna, and it it took us out past Christianson through where all the wildflower sort of bridges are along the water, and it's an industrial space that all sort of feels like the countryside. And we get up at the sort of concrete port and we walk along it, and people are living in these boats, and we get to the end, and there's a digital code. I was like, this is members only, you can't get in. Oh no. So we cycled out, we weren't that optimistic. We thought, forget about it. We go back to our bikes, we weren't locked in, we walk away. This guy walked along. Hey, how are you? It's like, yeah, you're pretty good. Uh you gone through sauna?
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Terrible Danish accent. He said, Well, we were hoping to, but it's members only. Oh, you're not members. I said, No, we're here, and so I'm Australian, Australian Irish, and we're here for three days, but he wanted to do this. He said, Oh, I can bring guests in. Oh, anyway. That's right. So a minute later, this guy sort of we revolute, I revolute him the money. So technology's working. We're in this little remote spot with the water's edge, but I revoluted him some money. He guessed passes us, and in we go to this sauna, which is I'm gonna guess, like 20-meter single glass wall. We've never seen anything like it, like a cinema screen right on the water's edge. And we spent an hour there just chatting to these locals, and it was just the moment where you know those little unexpected things outside of the itinerary where you got to connect with local Danes, talk about what they do. It wasn't the silent sauna hour. Apparently, there's silent sauna hour. This is called social sauna hour, so we were able to chat. We should have got this guy on the podcast actually.
SPEAKER_00Um, just to stay with you for a second on that, Jason. So, yeah, Jason wrote a uh an op-ed, a comment piece for us at InDesign, um, which included some of this stuff. So, one of the things that came through really strongly with that was just the quality of Copenhagen as a city. So, over and above three days as a specific event. Yeah. That's something that's already come through, I think, with everything that you you've said. So let me just put that on the table. What is it, what are the qualities of Copenhagen of a city that you liked or or maybe disliked in any ways that brought out the best in this design gathering?
SPEAKER_05Everyone, you're the new one, so it's was it was it anybody's first time?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was mine. Our whole team, it was our first time.
SPEAKER_05I could tell they were like, oh my god.
SPEAKER_02We were walking from their like little mini palace that they were staying in um to dinner one night up along the river, and we were just looking in the apartment building windows and just saw all these pH files.
SPEAKER_04This is it, yeah. So isn't it joined? It's in their blood already.
SPEAKER_05They have this notion that you know it's yeah, I mean, it's interesting, Copenhagen, as in with all Danes. Yeah, and it's what you were saying before, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Like the same apartment will have that pH 5, and it would have been in there for 50 years. Yeah, and it'll have a P hind table that's been in there for 50 years, and they won't be adding things to it. But when you notice that stuff, even Marie, I think that's part of that. Like, it's the single acknowledgement of doing something great and leaving it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Not trying to actually invest it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I agree. It's that sort of a you know, uh they really appreciate that purchasing once and investing uh in life and never see it. I agree and it lasts forever.
SPEAKER_02I feel like the other things for for us were um there was a um there was a calm and a slowness about everything. We were in um Was that the J Mag or was that?
SPEAKER_01We were in a supermarket.
SPEAKER_05Oh, just in the self-checkouts. I find them so hard to use.
SPEAKER_02We were just in this queue, and the three of us were just thinking, how on earth can this be taking so long? And we were just and we were looking around, everyone else was just so calm. And then we just realized that it's us, like we just need to slow down a little bit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you don't see stressing danger from the stress danger.
SPEAKER_02This woman was in front of me with this basket, and she's just like looking around, what am I going to do with it now? And I was thinking, I'm holding all this stuff, I can't help you. And this enormous arm just reached over me from this absolutely huge Danish guy behind me, and he just picked it up and put it on the thing.
SPEAKER_06For her.
SPEAKER_02It was just hilarious. I looked up at him and I just thought, okay, yep, off we go.
SPEAKER_05Everyone's exactly. There is a different rhythm.
SPEAKER_02There's a different rhythm.
SPEAKER_05I do think you have to get off the walking streets. And you're staying in an area where you were going to a supermarket with local people and the sauna that you're talking about. And I do think you have to be careful in Copenhagen in summer in particular, because it's incredibly busy with tourists. But if you can find those spots away from it, then I do think that's where you find that slower rhythm and that sort of danger thing going, what's the rush, mate? Yeah, everything's in all right.
SPEAKER_00Interesting. Claire, can I ask? Was it how many times have you been before?
SPEAKER_01I've been three times. Um, so yeah, last time was three years ago. And yeah, I was the same a little bit like a. I was like, it seemed to me a little bit quieter this year, even though they've increased the number of exhibitors.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it was almost 400 exhibitors.
SPEAKER_01You know, like we were sort of down in the trenches trying, you know, sorting out all the recycling of all of the packaging. And it's just that respect they have and you know, the restraint as the sense slowed down.
SPEAKER_04They care. They care alone starting sedition.
SPEAKER_05It's part of their nature. Right. And it's part of what they're taught. And it's part of the cold game. Yeah, but giving back to them their culture of community, and everyone should be able to afford things. And you know, it is a socialist country. Yeah. You know, there is a very generous, you know, system that allows everyone to get everything. You know, there's a really great middle class in Denmark. Yeah. You know, it's medicals free, schools free, unis free. You know, so I think it does create this idea that, well, if you do the right thing and someone else does the right thing, then everyone does the right thing. But I do think that goes back like hundreds of years. I don't think that's a 20th-century Danish thing. I actually think it comes back. It's built on the shoulders of old, very old traditions. Yeah. Like, you know, it's just part of who they are.
SPEAKER_00So one of the obvious things to say amidst all of this is I think is a comparison with Milan, which similarly has traditions. I'm not a comparison in the sense that it's the same. Yeah, no, no. Very uh important, globally famous design show, a city that's a true centre of design tradition and arguably has all of those same things you just described, like the roots of design and tradition handed down over time, also attracts a lot of criticism these days for being too big a design show or um almost overcommercialized in some way or something. So, for those of you who have been to Middle End Design Week as well, or or indeed I could ask you any other, you know, comparable global design events. Do you have any thoughts on how Copenhagen and three days compare and contrast with those?
SPEAKER_05When I first started going Copenhagen almost like a quarter of a century ago, which is frightening, there used to be a permanent exhibition at the at the um hall that was just there all the time. With a lot of the furniture people, they just had permanent stands. It was just there. And that was part of the defunct of the old Danish furniture mobilia kind of exhibitions. It started in the 30s and went on for like 30 years and then just died. Then it moved to Stockholm, and Stockholm became a fair unto itself, but it was February. I really liked it because I like the cold, and I think I have the privilege of being in warm weather in Australia. I'm not really that fussed about Copenhagen. And those cities are great in winter. And I think Stockholm is in particular a very beautiful city in winter. But you still had to trek out to a shed. And you'd look at it and go, it's still not that environmentally conscious, as much as I'd try to say we're breaking things down and we're using them and everything. And it was a really good fair because it wasn't a big fair.
SPEAKER_03But that's destinational, not discovery, right? It's not scattered through a city. You go where you're there.
SPEAKER_05There were people doing interesting things, even to start with out in you know, beautiful old buildings that were 500 years old. There were, but not as a core part of the of the experience. Whereas I feel like with three days, she's done an amazing job of going, no, this is not about a shed with satellites, this is about the city and utilizing all these amazing historic buildings as part of the DNA of the fair. And I think for me, that's what differentiates say Stockholm and Milan. I've only been to once, but to me, that's what differentiated is the way they started, it was not from a shed, so to speak, to this. They obviously wanted to go, no, there's all this extraordinary. The foundations were already there. Yeah, they just hadn't put a name on it. Yeah, and they just used what was already there, and I think that that's why Copenhagen is so appealing because I think there's all this extraordinary architecture that you just walk into going, Oh my god, it's like 350 years old. It's insane. But I'm looking at a cabinet from 10 years ago or now. Yeah, you know. Sorry, Claire, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01No, sorry, I was just gonna say as well, what like even Jason was saying though, is that the fact that you can put those moments of sort of separating yourself from the fair as well, like by feeling like you know, you can enjoy the whole experience of the city as well as not just sort of sticking to the fact, you know. I find that when you go to some other fairs, you're sort of on this high the whole time of like, I have to get to this, I have to get to that.
SPEAKER_05That's true, yeah, yeah, yeah. It can be a rise. Yeah, you're right.
SPEAKER_01I think you're gonna run it. Whereas when you get that space between it, it's there's something very special about that. And I really hope that Copenhagen holds on to the fact that it's not really large and that it sort of keeps to the fact that it no, it it can carry that sort of restraint.
SPEAKER_03It does feel like it has the DNA to sustain a fair like this for many, many years to come. Like as a somebody returning to Copenhagen but first time at the festival. My first visit to Copenhagen, I felt like the city already is a design festival. So it's already frothing, walk around, going, Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05Even the 7-11 shop is next to the way of putting it.
SPEAKER_01I felt like just looking at the papers, pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_04Oh, beauty is just everywhere. Especially in summer. Yeah, and uh but there's there's a humility around it, at least on the surface. You know? That's a nice thought, Jason.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, at least on the surface. Was this the topic of conversation in the sauna that you went to? Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Conversation out to it my song. Um, but yeah, I just felt that in some ways some of the things that were different were just that now there was this beautiful little sign outside saying three days. But if you took that sign away, the experience was still the same.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_03And then you had your your unique special events, and and what you did, Claire, with latitude, was really special. I thought that was an incredible thing to pull off, to be honest. But that and that's unique, you're not gonna get something like that. Um, and some of the events I did go to the docks with a trip.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I didn't say it.
SPEAKER_03They put on a cracking party, the sun was setting over the harbour, there's music. I actually called my son because he said, I'm gonna tap into this. I've done enough of all these stuff.
SPEAKER_05I'm bored. Is it down where the Gooby showroom is it all right? Used to be looking up. When I used to buy vintage furniture 24 years ago, down there. That was all where I used to buy vintage food. There were just sheds full of shit. Yeah, they were everywhere there, there were just these crazy shipyards that were completely disused, full of of giant flea markets. And that's how they did these buildings. It's uh it's brilliant. Um how did you find it even really like that? You must have gone to that area with Yeah, we did. How did you find that um look?
SPEAKER_02We went we went towards the end of the afternoon and honestly, like it was fun.
SPEAKER_05But you were kind of done by then for the day? I think so. Yeah, it's a good thing. It's a lot to take in in a day, is yeah. And you do have to moderate your kind of exposure to which at some point you I think you do become saturated.
SPEAKER_02You do, yeah, you need a little breath.
SPEAKER_03And that's the show bag itinerary, as you just be careful of, right? Yeah, it is good. When you realize you've got when you're weighed over on one side, you're going, I've probably done too many, you know. So how many choke bags can I carry?
SPEAKER_00What's very interesting hearing you all speak is that you are coming from slightly different angles of this as well. You know, there's the strictly kind of design lens, you're there with a team, you're there also with a family member, and you've been gone a long time and you've got the the brand lens on. Claire, you were involved in uh putting something on. Can you all speak a little bit more about those different points of view?
SPEAKER_05And I'm really intrigued, Claire, to hear how it went because we haven't spoken since and I thought it was so amazing what you did, but I'm intrigued like who came, what was the response. I mean, when I went, it was just full of Aussies. It was like, Jesus, there is not a Dane in the room. But I really wanted to hear and hope that it was full of foreigners, you know, Scandinavians or Italians. So can you I I really want to hear about that.
SPEAKER_02I heard I heard people saying, I feel like I'm at a party and I don't know anybody. That's great.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because there were, yeah. Well, no, actually, correction. I feel like I'm at a party where everyone knows everyone, but I don't know. So all the Australians were there, but there were other people there. And they were feeling like they're a little bit left out.
SPEAKER_06Okay, interesting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, look, we were look, interestingly enough, like the Aussies were a great support, which was pretty amazing and something that I was not expecting given the fact that you know where we were, I was sort of thinking they might pop in for five minutes. But yeah, fortunately, we're very much supported by the Aussies. But it was not only that, like we had a yeah, like a lot of the European press coming in. Which coverage coming in. We've got about five different sort of press overseas, which is fantastic in Prince. We've also there were so many different showrooms, um, lots from uh sort of mainly sort of France, um Italy, which was really and Claire, were they asking you were they asking you things like is the product in production?
SPEAKER_05Are they one-offs? What were they what were they what were they what were the conversations?
SPEAKER_01There was obviously there's about 10 designers that sort of have something that's continuing to make, but the majority of ours was more of that sort of uh respecting the sort of level of design, and then like how we'll we would potentially take that further. So there was a lot of sort of interest in different kinds of avenues of say, for example, uh Jesse French's window films and how they could then develop that in a more of a commercial way.
SPEAKER_05But I guess I was interested to know, like, did people say, Oh, can I buy more of it than that light? You've got three of them and yeah, right. So they're interested in procuring them on that scale, not just on a line. Yeah, that is something I was interested in too.
SPEAKER_01You know, quite surprised by. And a lot of people as well, with some of the smaller pieces, were just interested in purchasing straight off.
SPEAKER_05And how did you manage that?
SPEAKER_01Like, what did you do with that?
SPEAKER_05Okay, and and did you sell those products when you were there for the one?
SPEAKER_01Sort of four smaller ones because I I think people come to appreciate rather than you know, they sort of go away. Like if I'm there visiting, yeah, I tend to photograph and then I sort of stand back, take the whole thing in when I get back, and then it's sort of contacting everyone. So we've had a lot of follow-up posts. That's good.
SPEAKER_03That's what I was gonna ask about profile and just awareness. Do you feel there are many? Because you had obviously had quite a few young designers and artists there as well, which was amazing, I thought, and just curious to know. Well, and maybe it's still too early, but to know how it benefited them beyond the thing itself. Obviously, the event itself and being there would have brought some which had a lot of benefit value. But beyond that, was there, you know, was there a leg up in terms of awareness and profile and visibility?
SPEAKER_01I think it's more, it's like it's the visibility that you hope continues, and it will you know lead down the track. It's for them as well. I think it was a lot of a learning lesson about how to work in the European market. A lot of them weren't sort of sure about shipping, they weren't, no one knew about bats and carne. So it was for them, it was I think it was a sort of a learning process as well. Um they also didn't know how to price pieces. So the ones that I should hire. It was almost like a lesson as well to you know, learn through that experience and you know, the take-home from that. And is their product going to work overseas? Is that something that they can afford to build into their business? So there was, I think it was a lot about that as well. They wanted to have the backing of someone to be able to, you know, give this a go, trial it out. Obviously, we had different things that because all of the designers were sending their own products over rather than we were trying to push sort of consolidation, but because they're all in different states, um, often they didn't know each other. Um, so it was in a situation like that, often you'd obviously consolidate going forward, but because they were sending things over on their own, it was really, you know, there was a lot of lessons learned for them.
SPEAKER_05So will you do it again next year, Claire?
SPEAKER_01That was a great opportunity for them just to learn.
SPEAKER_05Will you do it again next year?
SPEAKER_01Oh, look, and maybe not next year, just because I've got some other big projects on, but I'm looking to hopefully do it the following year. Oh, great. Amazing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I suppose all of that that you describe is those are the practical layers that make three days of design behind the scenes an actual thing. It's over and above, as you say, Jason, the city as a design festival in and of itself, but then those are the practical layers that make that coming together worthwhile in other ways. I wanted to pick up on something that I feel like several of you have kind of hinted at, and I think Anton, you said at the start, you use the word of conundrum, maybe about where three days of design is at in terms of its um evolution over the years. So, one of the things that I often hear again in relation to Milan is that three days of design is this in this really cool spot and it's kind of still catching emerging things and you know it's got a really big reputation, but it's at this tipping point where it might become too big, or maybe it's at the sweet spot right now, and maybe it should try and stay where it is. And you know way more about the numbers and whatnot, but I wonder what your impressions or opinions are about is this is this festival of design at a sweet spot right now, and do you feel like it has a choice as to whether it can go? I don't know if the words bigger or smaller are the right things.
SPEAKER_05I think bigger or smaller, yeah, I agree. I don't think bigger or smaller are the terms that actually write.
SPEAKER_03What about frequency? Because I've thought about this when you just mentioned Claire, or maybe the following year, and I've thought I'd probably go the following year. Yeah, right, and a lot of never being alley. You know, they go twice. And does that give you more time to A reflect on the one you've been to, because otherwise you've got six months and you're planning the next one?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no, no.
SPEAKER_03A bit of space between them might help.
SPEAKER_05I do I think it's the I think that's the balancing act, and I think it's easy for us to kind of give opinion, but at the end of the day, it's a business, they're trying to grow design, they're trying to grow awareness of Scandinavian design, they're trying to create a place where you know designers can come and feel comfortable and express their you know creativity and in a really beautiful context. And I I think, you know, I think they do a good job. I I do. But I don't know whether we can without knowing all the nuts and bolts, I think it's really hard to pass judgment on whether it's gonna become too big or not. I think as it is, I think it's great. I think it's a really I think it's well put together. I think, you know, I don't know whether you guys took the subway at all, but yeah, the new subway in Copenhagen's insanely good. Like, so you know, I think there's a lot of things that make it really easy, which for me makes it really easy for everyone. But um, I think bigger picture-wise, I think I really hope it continues because I think it's it's it's got a really good feel. And even our suppliers who are mostly not brands, who are factories, you know, or family businesses, I know they really have come to find it a place where they feel comfortable. And I think it's really important for old brands in Denmark not to feel, oh, this is just for new kids on the block and people with obscene amounts of money who want to have a huge party or where, which I totally get, and that's fine. But I think for people who are expressing a classic idea of Scandinavian design, whether it be Swedish, one of our brands is called Shalomo, and it's got an incredible history in art, and they do it, they did a really beautiful collaboration with two Swedish designers, you know, and uh for me I think the the three days allowed them to do that, as in the space allows them to do it, and I hope that continues because I think those companies are really important parts of what makes something like three days so great.
SPEAKER_01Anton, can I ask as well, because I sort of heard when, you know, sort of early submission days, they are actually also sort of hoping to for it to stay within a sort of controlled number.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I don't know, I haven't heard that, but interesting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, want to have that sort of beauty around the fact that it's not going to sort of turn.
SPEAKER_05I mean, the other thing, Claire, is she the amount of government money that would be flowing because they are so incredibly supportive of anything you do in Denmark, really allows them to not work, I think, probably, and I'm guessing here, on a traditional fair business model. So I kind of wonder, Claire, you saying that maybe there's there's a board. I don't know, maybe there's a group of people who go, how can we sustain this? But everyone can still make money from it, but it can still be what everyone wants it to be. But I mean, that goes back to what we're talking about at the start about Danish tradition. If like we support our own design and integrity and quality and history and integrity, a part of what we do in everyday life, and I suspect that's part of what three days is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the more like stewards of a design tree.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, I think that's a really beautiful, yeah. I think that's a really great way to describe it. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um let me ask you all general generally as well about simply what you learned and what you took away from the weekend. Even Marie, I might start with you because you had a whole troop of team members with you. What what kinds of things have been discussed in the in the studio since you got back?
SPEAKER_02Um lots of lots of different themes. Um, themes about um longevity and sustainability and adaptive reuse, um, but also um generosity. There was a lot of like a real sense of generosity and hospitality when we were there. Um just in the city generally, yeah, and in all the events. Events in terms of the amount of time you had and who you got to speak to, and um yeah, and just the way that the whole um thing was organised, I think. Um and I guess ultimately uh we came away um with um I guess like a recalibration of our perspectives on design and like in a holistic way.
SPEAKER_05That's amazing. That's that I mean three days would be rap to hear that, I would think. That's the kind of stuff they want to hear. You know, I'd say that says that they've achieved what they, you know, that's amazing, Angela.
SPEAKER_00And a a recalibration, I'm guessing that that's not you going there and you know, throwing out things that you thought before and totally revolution or reinventing the wheel, as you're saying. Sounds like it's more adding to you know, like a like a like a patchwork of what you guys already do and already know, but like suppl augmenting it and supplementing it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and just um enriching it, like shifting the focus as well. Yeah, especially being in a place that um where design is embedded in absolutely everything that they do.
SPEAKER_05And there's in the 7-Elevens are great. The food in the 7 11s are insane, everything everything, everything. That's what I meant, it's just there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, at the most unusual McDonald's project's crap. It's like that's not a McDonald's. They went off theme.
SPEAKER_02There's no red in the I just couldn't find it. No red and no yellow. Um, but yeah, the themes around sustainability were talking about, you know, recycling and everything. And we um we we had two Airbnbs, we had three and three, and in the one that I was in, the host met us there, and she um it was so beautiful. We had arrived at you know six eight o'clock in the morning, and she had a beautiful breakfast ready for us, showed us how to use the coffee machine, and then basically said, Look, the only rule is we don't really like smoking inside, so if you can refrain from doing that. She said, Um, she sort of she said, Look, don't go and buy stuff. The fridge is full, the pantry's full, just use things. Don't go and buy things. And I just thought, isn't that you know, that's that's the way to do it, you don't just redo everything because you don't have to be. So it just seemed to filter.
SPEAKER_05I mean generosity is but I think that word generosity is a really beautiful description of it in general. I think it's it's a nice way to describe it.
SPEAKER_00Um what about you, Jason, from a from a strictly design perspective, what have you brought back?
SPEAKER_03Um well some of it's I think t some of it probably ties into uh the discussions we were having before about what's the future of this design fair, what could it be? Um the idea that uh we're seeing a lot of what we're seeing around product, and you mentioned earlier about lifting the chair. The Danes are incredibly proud as they should be of the making and the process. You know, a lot of the beautiful stuff that we probably still specify from other parts of the world, the making mightn't be that exciting anymore because technology's got involved. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I recall on my first visit to Denmark many years ago, I went, I was on my own dragging a suitcase to the countryside nose. I went to Roller Factory, uh I went to Karl Hansen and so on. And I was blown away by the process and how they have married technology, and I mean cutting-edge technology, to the extent that the the tools they use know when they need a new part, and they tell a computer which orders it, and the part arrives and it picks it out of the box. But then they're still using traditional ways of finishing and handcrafting. And I just think this maybe I'd like to see them exhibit more of the making.
SPEAKER_05It's interesting. I think I think that is I think part of the challenge for them is some of them some of the companies because they're not making it in Scandinavia anymore. No, enough of it. It's it's very hard, I think. Well, I don't know, I'm just bringing out attorney because everything we do is made in Scandinavia. But yeah, for us that's really integral. Yeah. There's one, two chairs we get made in Japan, and that's it. Everything else is made in Scandinavia. And you can imagine how many people come to us every month going, can you? I mean, like, no, no, no, no. Yeah, you know, and I think part of what you're describing is that how do they do that when it's not made in Denmark anymore? Yeah. How do they do that when it's not part of their cultural DNA anymore? And I think it's a really I think it's a real pity. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I know it's about maybe they could have somebody sit there and hey, no, no, this is the traditional way we walk.
SPEAKER_05Well, but I think when they do that, Jason, are they doing it really? Or are they just showing authentic? But are they Showing you that while it's being made somewhere else by a person that's not related to the city. Which it can't do. So it's who can do it. Yeah, who can do it? I think a lot of them can't now. I think, and you know, everyone says, Oh, people have price points and all that stuff. And I get it. Yeah. But for me, I'm like, I don't care about the price. Yeah. If that's the quality of the product, if that's the way it's made.
SPEAKER_03We know Fritz can't. We know Carl Village.
SPEAKER_05I don't comment on those companies. I only can speak for my for the companies or the factories that I work with. And for us, we understand they've got to pay wages in Denmark. They've got to pay petrol in Denmark. They've got to pay electricity. We respect that. But I also respect the fact that they're making it in Scandinavia.
SPEAKER_06So for me, that is core.
SPEAKER_03So maybe for those with fruit there may only be a few, but wouldn't it be interesting if as satellite trips bubbling away from Copenhagen part of the festival? So I used to do this. Let's go out there.
SPEAKER_05I used to take Premier factory tours. I think that'd be a great thing. Because all of our factories. I think we'll all come. I did it maybe 10 or 15 years ago, and it was an extraordinary eye-opening experience.
SPEAKER_04Factory year cleaner than outside.
SPEAKER_05L Moller, which is in awe, it's a third generation. She grew up in America, but only feels comfortable in the factory in Denmark and took it over from her dad, you know, seven or eight years ago with her partner. Now her and her partner are running this legacy, legacy, legacy choices. This is an extraordinary family legacy. And then there's you know Le Clint, which is a design trust, which no one knows. And it means all the money goes back into the company, and there is no profit taking. It's actually about promoting young designers or new design, and it's all handmade in audience where it's been made for you know 90 years. And you you can bring that to the fair, but I agree, Jason, the true way to fair out to it. Well, just have a chat to everybody. We'll look at we're hiring a bus next time. That's what I did. I actually hire I drove a bus around.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Ask Sarah Jane and what about the tundra bike with about six of us in the streets.
SPEAKER_05In someone's other climb, but to me, that's what is important to us at great yeah.
SPEAKER_02But also, I think, like from a um the perspective of someone that's specifying this furniture, um, to have a holistic understanding completely, yeah. Because that's what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_03Beginning to end. Where did the life of this product be at?
SPEAKER_02And to be able to talk to people about why it's priced like that. And it just justifies everything.
SPEAKER_05Your conversation, our conversation is within. And it also it also differentiates, no offense, but you know, some clients, well, I'm just not willing to play for it. It's like, well, then that's not for you, and neither is my what I do. Yeah. And I mean, people think I'm a lunatic of grades. I'm like, it's just maybe not for you. Yeah. I say to people in the shop, it's okay. Yeah, it's you know, that's the price because it comes from Denmark. But if you don't, you know, even though I've explained everything and gone in, if it's not what you want, then I respect that, but this is who we are.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And I think great dames have always been built on this idea that do it once, do it properly, or don't bother.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I'd say overall, for three days, like looking at this as a storyteller and media, it's exactly these kind of tensions that make it interesting and rich. So all the things you described about this old tradition of the handmade and the locally made, and carrying that through to modern tensions between whether they outsource the but they can still have the C and C's and all that.
SPEAKER_05Of course. I know and they can, but it's the balancing act of the truth of technology and the city.
SPEAKER_00It's not finished, and there might be arguments over it, but that's what makes it um as rich as it possibly can be. Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_03To give you a little example, just very quickly, I remember seeing a stacked of bent pieces of timber on the floor, a Karl Hansen's son. They they had all been bent by hand at a factory down the road where they still traditionally steam bent their wood. And they're stacked here. They're all about to become the back of an elbow chair. Bigger elbow chair. And they're just stacked like so. And in the middle of this room is an arm that looks a bit like these mics. It's a pneumatic arm, and it can move in 360 degrees, and then dotted around it like the hours on a clock are tools standing up on these. Uh, it might be a mortise, it might be a router, it might be a drill, it might be a trimmer. And it goes and picks up this hand-bent piece of timber and it takes it to each, and in moments it's shaped almost perfect. Then it drops it off and it's picked up by a person who sans it, finishes it, and creates the ultimate form and connects.
SPEAKER_05But I think you're right, tension is a good word. It's the tension between the technology and the handcraft. And for us, it's just something that we've always done. And you know, people go, you know, you can buy stuff. I'm like, I'm not interested. For us, for people, even Marie. I think that was really when you guys saw those chairs and saw it out. For me, that was that's gold. When you can see how it's made, because it's not a chair, it's not just a chair, it's a story, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And if you don't get a story with it, then it is just a chair. Yeah, yeah. And if it's just a chair, you'll forget about it when you do your next fit out.
SPEAKER_05But I agree with you that there's a real tension, and I think there's still a journey for that to be had.
SPEAKER_00Great. Well, speaking of of that and the future, let's finish up by just whiffing around the room. And I'm gonna simply ask you to say to our audience, why should people from our region, from Australia, from Asia Pacific region, why should they go to three days three days of design? And Claire, we might start with you.
SPEAKER_01Look, I'd have to say that there's just I I have so much respect for the materiality and the restraint of the Danish design, and I feel as though we've always really aligned with that. So yeah, if you haven't been, please go and make sure you come to the Australian show.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I would say um that you go you should go because it's um quite like to experience a country um or a city that is um yeah, so embedded in design. Um it's it's extraordinary.
SPEAKER_05I don't know, I've been going there so long. I just think it's it has a certain value, and I think it's a really beautiful value to aspire to either connect with or be part of, or and I think there's something they do and have done for so long. And I think everyone can get something out of it, whether you're into design or not. And I think Copenhagen has this kind of you know ability to do that.
SPEAKER_03Um I would say it's great to first of all to have an excuse to go to Europe in the summertime. So if you want to give yourself a work reason to go to Europe in summertime, Copenhagen's a treasurer of a city. And when you first discover it, it does get under your skin, particularly if you're a creative. There's something about it that will tap into your soul anyway. Festival or not, the festival's a great time to be there. I was really impressed by it. It's easy, as we said, it's slow, it's a fairly condensed, contained city center, so you can get around really easy. So I just think if you're gonna pick something that you want to get something out of and it not be too difficult, it's just a great place to do that.
SPEAKER_05I'm gonna say this you get off the plane and it smells different. They open the door and the air is you can really like I remember describing this to a mate of mine 20 years ago who's been going there forever. He's like, Did you get off the plane and smell an edge? I'm like, Yeah, I did. And I know I'm there in that one single moment. And I think that's a really interesting idea of the idea of scent and smell and how powerful it can be. And I think that's something that probably needs further discussion about because I think that's part of the experience of codebanking as well.
SPEAKER_00All right, wonderful. Well, Claire, Eva Marie, Anton, Jason, thanks all for joining me. And hopefully, next time we do this, maybe it will be in Copenhagen or somewhere similar. Thanks for having us.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. Thanks, everyone. Thank you. Thanks, guys.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for listening to this episode of Stories In Design. Please subscribe and review, and you can find out all about what we do at indesignlive.com.