079. The Truth About Owning a Winery with Winemaker Maddison Violet

What does it really take to launch a winery in today’s wine industry? In this episode of Taste Toast Travel, Tara sits down with Canadian winemaker and entrepreneur Maddison Violet to talk about building a winery from the ground up in British Columbia’s stunning Okanagan Valley.

From working in restaurants and studying wine through WSET and the Court of Master Sommeliers track, to navigating harvests, COVID challenges, and the realities of modern wine tourism, Maddison shares an honest behind-the-scenes look at life in the wine industry today. 

We also dive into the rise of non-alcoholic wine, changing consumer habits, wine misconceptions, and how wineries are evolving into immersive hospitality destinations.

In this episode, we dig into:
🍷 Building Ve Oh Lay Acres Winery during the COVID era
🍷 Life and wine culture in the Okanagan Valley
🍷 Maddison’s journey through wine education and harvest work
🍷The realities of running a modern winery behind the scenes
🍷Why wine tourism is shifting toward experiences and hospitality
🍷 The growth of non-alcoholic wine and changing drinking trends
🍷 Wine myths, sulfites, and consumer misconceptions
🍷 Canadian wine shipping laws and industry challenges
🍷 Building authentic community through social media and events
🍷 Farming risks, packaging struggles, and unexpected winery setbacks

Whether you’re planning a wine country getaway, curious about the future of wine, or simply love discovering stories from passionate people in the food and beverage world, this conversation offers a fascinating look inside the evolving wine industry.

If you love wine, travel, entrepreneurship, food culture, or hearing the real stories behind the bottle, this episode is for you!

Connect with Maddison:

• https://www.veohlayacres.com/
• https://www.instagram.com/veohlayacres
• https://www.facebook.com/veohlayacres

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Transcript

Welcoming Maddison Violet

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Madison, welcome to the Taste Toast Travel Podcast. I'm very excited to dig into the world of wine with you today. And I when I was like getting to know you, you have such a cool story that I'm I probably I don't even know all of the details of today. So I'm very excited to have you share with everybody. But you are an award-winning winemaker and have created Viola Acres Winery. Make sure I said that right, up in Canada. I will let you feel it. I will let you tell us all about that. But honestly, what I love about your story and what I was so kind of drawn to is, and this is definitely what one of the things I want to get into today. Maybe we can start there, is it sounds like you went from like serving wine and studying wine to now making the wine and having your own winery, which must have been such a journey when you were probably still on in a lot of ways. But yeah, just really looking forward to digging into, you know, navigating life and your love and passion for wine, but also the ups and downs of business ownership, especially as we were kind of saying before we officially started recording, like the wine industry, it's in a very peculiar place right now. And it's, you know, it has been before too. This is certainly not the first time that wine has had a moment. But again, as a winemaker, I would love to hear your perspective. Also in a different country. This is another reason I love talking to people on this podcast in other countries too, to like get out of our California wine bubbles. So welcome. I'm so excited to have you.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be on here. Thank you so much for having me. I can't wait to just talk about everything wine related.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Yeah, of course. Well, let's let's start with your story. So again, I I would love to hear kind of like where you started, how you were introduced to wine, like how it just became your your love and your passion.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Yeah, it's so it's I guess it's like it's just been ever evolving. And I feel like it's still even like I don't even think winemaker is like the end of the finish line. It still like keeps evolving from there. Yeah. So I work at a bar and it was like like it was like a nice, like fancy, like fine dining bar. They used to do these wine pairing dinners, and I didn't, I didn't understand like what the big deal was, like food, wine, whatever, you know? Yeah, and that kind of opened up the whole world to me about how like they're cross-comparing like the same grape, but from different countries and different styles and right bank versus left bank and stuff. And it's like, what is the big deal? What is the big deal with the soil and the rocks? Like, it doesn't make sense to me. I'm 19. So that really kind of spiraled then into more of like the restaurant side of things. So then I discovered Wine Spirit Education Trust, go through like the Somalier, start going up through the levels, and then I was lucky enough to actually land a job in a winery. I had previously worked like in liquor stores, restaurants, then started working in a winery, and they just they needed help in all different departments. A couple days on bottling here, a couple days in the vineyard, and that really allowed me to branch out and then kind of really actually see what I liked. So, like I was obsessed with the vineyard for a long time. So I would only do like vineyard work for a few years. Then I actually got to do my first harvest, and I was like, oh my god, it's so much more fun making it. That's humbling. Yes. Yeah, it's uh yeah, and then from there, then I was like, okay, I gotta pivot again in my school. I'm like, I'm probably gonna like perpetually be a wine student. I'm still actively in school. I keep thinking right now I'm going through my court of master similes actually, just not like for fun, but just because I've done like all these other schoolings. So I'm like, why not this one? It's usually a little bunch and you could study wine for the rest of your life. Yeah, and I don't think you would really actually learn all of it. Like, even if you had to just like focus on a country like Italy, like over 50 native varietals, like it's just a few.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Yeah, just a few to try and memorize because John, he's a certified Psalm, and he was it's such a bummer. He was never able to get his advanced psalm because he didn't have restaurant experience. They like put that rule or law or whatever into place, like as he was like exploring doing that. So I was like, oh, that's such a like the whole service portion, you know, which I understand, but such a missed operation. I was I felt so sad for him in that way because he's just like, at this point in my life, I'm not gonna do the restaurant thing. But it's a process, but to your point, yes, there it's it's so expansive. And I think that's what we love about wine too, is it is always there is always something to learn, but it can be so fun and so like nerdy and kind of interesting at the same time.

How They Started the Winery

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yeah, and it can take you around the world. So that's like what originally what I really like that the winemaking thing. Not that you can't work in tasting rooms around the world, but I feel like better off getting like a winemaking job around the world because people bring on so many part-time, like seasonal help for harvest. Yep, right. So it's like, yes, okay, cool. So, like with that, I was able to like travel around to New Zealand, to Australia. I was actually gonna go to South Africa, and then Culver came in and it ruined all of my dreams. And then from there I had to give it again. So it's like, okay, so I'm here, I'm stuck at this winery, no one's really coming, and it's like people are just coming, buying, and leaving, like it's we're like losing it, right? Yeah, so then it was actually that's where I met my husband, and he was actually making wine. Okay, I mean, he has like a long, like super cool history of wine, like he's like a seventh generation winemaker, but he's more experience-based, like he grew up in the winery I was working at and then he was making wine, and he's like, I'm gonna do a winery, like, do you want to help me? And I was like, sure, why not? And it kind of decided from there, and then we had following up with one of our business partners, so then it was just the two of us, and we were like, Fuck it, we're still gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

I love this energy for you. Not taking on a lot at all, but you know, just casual.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

We were very adventurous during COVID. We had really high hopes.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

No kidding. Well, okay, so that's so interesting because COVID was, dare I say, a great time for wine. Again, I'm thinking very California here, because that's kind of our lens. I don't want to speak for like you guys or the rest of the world, but there was such a huge boom in wine, and it was drinking. And like it's so interesting because I work on the digital marketing side of wine, so it was like very interesting to see the winery, wineries kind of that I like worked for in that time, and then also working for like an agency right kind of right before that happened. The buying behavior and all of that and everything that came with COVID, and then seeing businesses on the back end plan for what they thought were gonna be like this huge uptick in wine for like the foreseeable future, right? And then COVID goes away, right? We kind of are finding ourselves getting out of it. And now, again, you know, this is years later now, but we're in a in an interesting spot, as I alluded to in the beginning. And so did you guys, yeah, kind of like walk me through COVID and then like post-COVID, did you guys see that too? What did you experience?

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Like we were building during COVID. So, like our like our specific winery, it was just mostly like just like our building costs like tripled, and that was not fun. So, like the logistics of trying to get our winery started during COVID really went out the window. Yeah, but in terms of like what we were seeing in the industry, though, it was everyone was buying wine, it was insane. Like, people are at the liquor stores at like 9 a.m. It's there is no shortage of wine going out. People were nursing themselves at home through some red wine, and that's fantastic. I love that for all of them. Yeah, I was also doing this.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Do what you gotta do to get through a global pandemic, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Yeah, and then we've just had this huge switch where now no one's drinking, and it's like it's almost like what I've noticed now at the winery. It's like the wine's almost like a secondary experience. Yeah, you can have the best wine, like we have award-winning wine, we've got all the gold medals and the fancy things and stuff. That's still not enough, though. People need an experience behind it, they want to feel something, it's their they want to be involved in it, and that's what we've seen in the shift happening. So now it's more like I would say our winery is more um like as like a destination winery now, instead of just like a tasting room with wine because people will come because you have wine. Yep. Now it's like, okay, you have a kitchen, we have a restaurant that's here, we do outdoor movie nights, we do like fun-themed parties, stuff like that. It's we do educational events, so there's more reason. It's we let kids run around in the field, you can go for a walk in the vineyard. It's more immersive now, and I feel like that's really resonating with you more.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Yeah, definitely. No, I you it's like you have to nowadays, I feel like. And you know, like yes, depending on the winery, like, yes, the wine might be a bigger focus than others, but I I see it here too, even at some, and it's funny. John has experience and works at a pretty, I guess you could say bougie winery, has a lot of art, is very well known, is very insta-worthy and all of that. But it's so interesting because people will come there like specifically for the art. Like they literally have an art tour that has nothing to do with the wine. So it's very interesting. And I I think people are craving that, they're craving that connection. And I don't know, especially like here in like Sonoma Napa area, depending where people are from and how into the wine they are, they just want to drink and they just want to feel something, and they just don't really care. Which I'm like, okay, that's fair. But also, this wine is so good, like, you know, enjoy it. So it's it's funny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Do you see that? I'm curious too, actually. So, where in in terms of like where Viola is, are you guys? I mean, Napa's freaking Disneyland. Okay, so you know, there's a lot of wineries like kind of next to each other-ish. How is it up where you are? Is it a little bit more remote? Like paint a picture of like what the because uh the Okanagan Valley is like gorgeous from what I've seen. I haven't been. It's I'd love to.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Yeah, um, so we're in the Okanagan Valley, which is definitely the largest wine region in British Columbia. There's I think three or four designated wine regions now. We're in the largest and we're kind of smack dab in the middle of it. So we are in like a very like cute small town. We're like really well known for like thrifting in our little town, like it's adorable. There's gonna be like 15 to 20 wineries around us. Okay. We have some like local distilleries, local breweries as well, too. So, like, we have like a good little wine route. Just like we're all probably within like five to six minutes of each other, and then there's like a northern chunk that has more wineries, but you're maybe 15 minutes topped, like for Summerland. Then you can go either way. If you go up more north more, you hit West Kelowna, Kelowna, Lake Country. That just all carries on with more wineries. If you go south, again, it's so we're we're not gonna be as close as Napa Valley, like into like it's like just like one after the other, right? Um, but definitely it's so easy to get around out here. We have like these big, beautiful highways, they drive around all of like the lakes, go through the mountains, and wineries are everywhere out here.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's so, and it's so, I guess, convenient too, because it's interesting. I've I've worked for some wineries or just I'm familiar with brands that it's so funny being kind of like in the middle of nowhere and having this really expansive like property is beautiful and it almost sounds like great on paper. But get nowadays, that's the other thing I'm noticing. Getting people out there, like it's it's a kind of a convenience thing too. And I have seen some clothes like it up here, but also in other areas of California too. And that's so that's interesting, and I think people are looking for that sort of communal thing, and there might be like a time and place to go somewhere like really remote, but it sounds like you guys are in like a great area.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yeah, no, where it's fantastic for us. Like, we're by a golf course that drives us a lot of traffic as well. Too, we're only six minutes off the highway, so that's really ideal. But like, yeah, if you're too rural though, like there's this one winery out here that's just gorgeous, and it's it's pretty far out there though, and they're struggling with that. And before I feel like that wasn't an issue. If you have wine, they will come. Yeah, um, it's like ah, people don't want to drive that far.

How Wine Sales Changed

SPEAKER_01 12:38

That's interesting. So it sounds like it could be a little bit, I don't like a little bit down where you guys are too. We're just yeah, not every winery up here, but like some of the ones that I have familiarity with, like are struggling with that a little bit. And I it's it's interesting. I almost like don't know how to pinpoint what that is. There could be like a lot of factors. I mean, and again, would love to hear your perspective on this as a winemaker, but also again, different country. I've talked to some other wine people on this podcast before as well that are also in different countries. Um I think we see like some of the same things, but I think just drinking behavior in general, like everyone's blaming, you know, Gen Z and millennials and stuff for like not drinking and all the things. Proud millennial here. And it's I I have to kind of like take myself out of it because we're in the industry, so we're in like kind of a little bit of a bubble. But I do see like drinking habits changing, of course, health consciousness and just uh GLP ones. Is it even a part of your diet anymore? Are you allowed to have it, right? Like that type of thing. But I think there's there's so many options now, too, in the alcohol space that are not wine. And you mentioned like breweries and things around you too. So, like, there's that. And then if there are other options, are they quote unquote healthier? And wine is like of course, I don't want to say like every wine brand does wine perfectly and doesn't do additives and things, but I think there are so many that don't add all of those things in, and the wine just gets a bad rep for some reason. I'm like, as John would say if he were sitting here, like wine is one of the most like ancient things that comes from the earth and it naturally has sulfites. So it's like all these things that it's like, okay, you guys, wine's actually like really you could be you could be doing a lot worse than wine. But yeah, so I'm just curious, again, from your perspective, what it could this could just be your opinion too, but like what you're seeing there and what you think could be contributing to the current state of the wine industry.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

I think wine is unnecessarily attached, because yeah, it is one of the oldest benefits, and there's like so many benefits to it, and like sulfides get me so fired up.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Sable sable. I get headaches, I can't drink wine because of sulfites.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Just sulfites, yeah, because it's like, no, you don't even get it. Like, yes, we don't have to like dump it full of sulfides, but it is actually also a natural byproduct. If you can eat like pickles and granola bars and french fries, then like you're fine, it's not it's not the wine.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Your overconsumption and not drinking water and all the things.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Yeah, that's another thing, too. It's like I think wine is obviously very good in moderation, but it's it depends on what you're consuming, though. Yeah, and I know I'm guilty of overconsumption, it's just because being in the industry, it's just so hard. Yeah, but there's definitely been a change for sure. I'm hoping that they don't come out with they wanted there's like this whole trend or like movement right now for like cancer warnings on wine bottles, like what they're doing with cigarettes. Yeah, and it's like I don't know, like we yes, okay, we get it. Every honestly, everything causes cancer these days, okay? Like, whatever. We get it.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Like, hi, we could go on and on. Like, are they gonna are they gonna put that down there?

The Non-alcoholic Wine Pivot

SPEAKER_00 15:49

I guarantee we take out this point now, okay. Like, let me just have my red wine and not have like this like ugly, gross like warning on it. No, it's I know, yeah. Um we did actually pivot into the non-alcoholic wine space though, because we saw this trend. Okay, and struggling with our own consumption as well. Um there just wasn't really good options out there. They're like too like not enough flavor, like too watered down, yeah, or they were just super sweet, and it's like, well, I'm gonna consume that much sugar, I might as well just consume the alcohol, right? Or they're effective as well, too. Like it's like, oh, I think a drinking problem for$30 a bottle. Like, that's fine, it's okay. No, seriously, you know, but then our non-alcoholic though has made a huge difference though in our sales. Wow, it's gonna be at least 30% of our sales. We're probably gonna be close to 40% of our sales as non-alcoholic this year. Yeah, so we we have very archaic shipping laws out here in Canada, which hopefully are being changed in May. So fingers crossed for that. Yeah, uh, but but we go all across Canada if we're non-alcoholic, and we actually got into Walmart, and you can sell to so many different places, right? So we got like flower shops, and we have I don't know, I started really strong with that flower shop. We just have like all like the U brews are really popular actually for non-alcoholic. Funny enough. Yeah, it's we grocery stores because we we can't sell regular wine only in select grocery stores out here, it's not like the states where you can get it everywhere. Yeah, um, so it's very different in that aspect. Um, but no, it's been nice. It's definitely opened up a wider window for us. We're currently working with like a big arena right now, and we just did like a tasting with them during one of the hockey games. And so many people dismissed us because they're not drinking, and we're like, no, no, it's not alcoholic. And they're like, oh shit, okay, let's go. So it's wild the difference. And then I've also noticed it's not necessarily like pure abstinence. Yeah, it's people about pacing themselves, moderation, they'll they'll have a glass of wine or two, but it's like it's like a social event where it's outside barbecue and kind of sipping, it's not you're not just trying to buzzle wine, like right, like it's it's a very social aspect, and then to switch to like sparkling water is just it doesn't have that same thing, yeah. So, and then because we actually still ferment our wine or we still ferment the juice into wine and then we remove it.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

So you are I'm not gonna ask you about that just winemaking wise, how that works. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

So we use it's a vacuum distillation technique. So the most common methods on the market are reverse osmosis, yes, and then traditional distillation. But like traditional distillation is like your like cooked eight dollar non-alcoholic grocery wine that's like been sitting there for like the last 15 years. And reverse osmosis is really popular as well. Um, I find you have to manipulate the wine so much though when you're doing an RO method. So we did vacuum distillation, which is a spinning cone technology, it's like a giant centrifuge and it sucks out the alcohol on like a molecular level. So the wine is less manipulated. We don't kind of have to rebuild it after like Crosmosis, you like filter all the water and stuff, and then you kind of restructure it. Yeah, um, so really left the wine intact. It's been super hard to figure out how to do a white wine without it tasting like just like pure acid, it's just like lemon water. Yeah, it's your perfective or trifector, right? You got like your fruit, your alcohol, and your acid. Yep. And then when you're removing one of those, it's like ah, so the acid need each other kind of, yeah. Yeah, it needs to balance it out, and like we're not adding acid, but it's just because we've moved it removed a component that now the acid is really dominant, which is crazy how much of an effect it has on it. Yeah, but like we're playing around with different things. We found with our merlot, if we let the fruit hang longer and we have a higher alcohol Merlot, we get more like fruit flavors for it. The acid's not as dominant, the tannins as well stayed really prevalent in there as well. Too so it's a lot of trial and error. Yeah, um, we're working with the savanc for wine. We tried Chardonnay and it just didn't work. I Chardonnay can be so many things. I call it the chicken of wine because like what can't you do with Chardonnay? But to make it into non-alcoholic is a little hard.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

We're playing around with the Samuel Blanc because people are used to it being in a naturally high acid style, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:14

And I feel like that's very popular, right? Aromatic whites. Like, I don't know how it doesn't cater, but like aromatic whites is having its moment right now. So Shannon Blanc, Jav Blanc, but leaning into that, which is good.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Yeah, yeah. And then obviously, of course, sparkling, you just throw bubbles into anything and it fixes all of your problems. Like in line emotionally, like it's all good. It's who doesn't want a glass of bubbles.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Seriously, it is genuinely one of our favorites. Like, it's just such an easy go-to. Like, generally speaking, depending on what food you're having, but it often pairs very easily and well with food. And yeah, that's so interesting. I'm so I'm glad for you guys that you've leaned into that because I, you know, I think some people are still trying to figure out, or they're, you know, they're a little, dare I say, behind the times. But I think a lot of the wine industry is not always fast to react to things, and rightfully so. Like it is not the cheapest business to like run, and there's a lot of studying and study groups and understanding the consumer behavior that you have to do to like get a product made, right? That people are gonna drink. Trends already moved on, and you're like, oh my god. And then the the trend, right? And so I think they're trying to figure out like, is this a trend? Is this really here to stay? Whatever. And so you guys have a tough job.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

I know it's a lot. It's we didn't invest, we've actually been outsourcing our dealization, so we didn't invest in the yet because we don't know. Yeah, like is it? So expensive too.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Like making wine, oh my god, is it just an expensive process in general? But then you know, the machines and all the th like a lot of people can't most places can't buy that themselves unless you're like a big guy. But even with the bigger guys, they cross utilize like their at least here, like.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Like you know, are utilizing the production facilities and whatever, like for multiple wineries, like yeah, 10 different wineries are made out of that same production facility. No, it's it's very oh here. We have like three or four big conglomerates that own like majority of the wine industry, and then it's all like small to medium wineries that are like family owned and things like that. Yeah, and it's tough, and then that's not even factoring in if there's like a glass shortage going on or like cork tariffs, like it's it really does not end. Manufacturing is not for the weak, but wine wine is so cool because it's like it's what do they say? It's like it's an art form, it's storytelling, and lit, you know, like and it is, yeah, but like being a winemaker, as like romantic as it sounds, like I'm not frolicking in the vineyard every day. It's like it's not a paper, it's regular bodies, like it's reporting, yeah, it's it's ridiculous.

Building a Winery Behind Scenes

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Yeah, we're seeing a lot become like general managers, essentially, too. Like that you you guys wear so many more hats than what people think. Actually, that's a great question for you because I wanted to just also dig a little bit back into because I think for anyone here listening, like getting into the wine industry, first of all, I think this is all really interesting and good to know, and not to like deromanticize the wine industry, but I think it's a very important and interesting thing to kind of like get some background on. Pull back the curtain a little bit, but like talk to me a little bit about just like the behind the scenes perspective of like building a winery. You've already kind of like mentioned some of this, but you know, sourcing the actual making, like what a winemaker actually does, and also any like you know, putting out a fire moment along the way, and just you know, any uh of the struggles. Like, we want to hear all the all the tea.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Let's say just about like so many fires. Fires happen all the time. Fires all fires. One time, it was last year, it was in like two two to three months before harvest, and we actually had a really bad summer storm, and lightning actually hit our production facility and our electrical panel caught on fire and fried half of the building. Oh my god, you like sometimes stuff up fire, sometimes not, but you know what? We were able to get it figured out, and we just had like a delayed harvest, but it was all okay. But yeah, like so many things. I know, and like we still had wine in tank at that time, so we bottle on demand. Um we do ultra packaging as well. We do four liters, 16 liters, we also do some private label for restaurants, so we don't throw everything in bottle right away. We keep some of it in tanks to allow some more flexibility, but you're you're watching that, you're catering to it every week, you're checking the levels that the so2 levels and stuff. It's how is it aging, right? Like, God forbid a seal goes is weak or something, then it's oxidized, and like you're constantly testing for all of that for things that we I guess a winemaker does. It's a lot of sourcing. Yeah. So we actually started with honey wine because when we planted our vineyard, we didn't, because there's so many rules out here, so we weren't able to buy grapes right away. So we actually started using honey wine as like a little alternative to kind of break into the market early. So we were using all different kinds of fruits. Sometimes we were doing hybrids with grapes as well, too. But you're like talking with the farmers, you're visiting, you're visiting their farms because as much as like, yes, they're growing it and they're very good at growing it too. You also like I'm looking for a certain like depending on like the style, like if I'm gonna make a like a sparkling wine, I want it to be harvested early, I want those acid levels, so you're constantly monitoring their fruit as well as my fruit, you know. So two acres that I'm taking care of, but we're overseeing about 15 acres actually of various fruits that we use to then turn into wine, and then some things happen, you get diseases in the vineyard or just other crops that we use, bugs come in. There's always a variety of issues. I always say winemaking is easy, it's until it goes something goes wrong. Until it is not, yeah. And yeah, they really can't teach you that in bugs. Like, yes, a little bit in theory, but it's like, no, you kind of just gotta keep going through experience. We have a lot of people behind us that have been in the industry for 20, 30 plus years, so we bounce a lot of ideas off of them. Everyone has a different answer to something as well, too. So it's like a lot of collaborating, it's a lot of personalizing your wine, really, into like what you want, what you like. Then we're constantly sourcing materials, bottles, corks, screw caps, do you want it branded? Do you not want it branded? What are the costs?

SPEAKER_01 26:49

These are the things that a lot of people think about. Like, we do because we're gonna work on the back end, and it that is so interesting. But like, if people ever question like why a wine is maybe more expensive or whatever, like it's such a labor of love. Like, yeah, if there was ever anything in this world that is a labor of love, it is that.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

And like the catalog is like this thick and has a bazillion different types of oak in it, different types of screw caps, it's different, all the different colors that you can get, and then you'll love a color, and then special order for a few weeks, and you're like, oh well, do I love it that much? It's oh yeah, I guess I'm not married to it. Okay. And different bottles, right? Different bottle styles. We've actually I've actually simplified my bottle styles just to like regular standard Bordeaux. Because I used to, I like I love like the burgundies and the fat bottles and the cool shapes, but then trying to put them on a wine brack, yeah, you're like, oh, it doesn't it doesn't always fit, it doesn't store nicely. I can't stack in my cute little pyramids, and you're like, Oh god damn it, like it's simple little things, yeah. It's so many little things like that too. Like it's like it looks so perfect on that table there with like this beautiful wax dip, cork, everything. Then if you put the wine and fallen off your wine rack, you're like, oh my god, or it just doesn't even fit in your wine rack. Okay, put it there. I'll get a new wine rack for these specific bottles. And then the labels. Labels, I am probably the longest label maker in the entire world. It takes me like at least eight months to come up with a design because I've edited like at least 40 times, and it's like a group effort. Like we have the rest of our team in on it. I'm like my parents, my brothers, and everything. I like everyone who's like saying crap. But it's all those little things that add up into it, though. You know, they do.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Those are the okay, thank you. These are the behind-the-scenes things that I love to talk about that I just don't think you know, if you're not in this industry, how would you know some of that? Or you might figure some of these things, but genuinely the thought and the consideration that goes into everything, both from like what is gonna resonate as a customer, right? What's gonna stand out on a shelf or what's gonna be convenient to put in their own wine rack, whether they drink it now or later or whatever, all these things, but also the cost on your guys'. And there's a brand I'm working with right now that's like they're known for very big, heavy bottles, and they're beautiful and they're they're pretty expensive wine. So I get that, but like they're going through this whole thing where it's like we want to be better for the environment, but also we gotta save some costs, and it's gonna save thousands and thousands and tens and thousands of dollars in shipping just to adjust the bottle like a little bit. And again, those are the decisions that like behind a$30 bottle of wine you might not see, right? And so it's crazy how it stacks up, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Like two bunt, two bunt, right? So many things, like it's so many fine details. It's do you do like we we have cork wine and through cap wine? Yeah, we also did glass because there was we couldn't get regular glass, so then we had to splurge, hold on, like fancy glass cork bottles, which was really expensive, yeah, but it was all we could get at the time, so we're like, okay, but consumers love the glass corks, yeah, but to bottle them is so painful. It makes the process so much longer, so it's like okay, we're not gonna do glass corks. Yeah, so now we're gonna do, but then you don't want a affordable bottle of wine with a cork because people just want to get into that shit, right? Aging it, right? Right. Method each, let's go. Yes, you don't need a cork. Cracker open, right? Yeah, then you can encapsule with your cork, or do you not like there's so many, so many minute details that don't make it seem like it actually matters at the end of the day. But then when you're on a shelf in a liquor store, I've been at some liquor stores and I'm like, oh my god, where did they put my like I can't even recognize my own wine on the shelf? Yeah, because there's so much, and it's like, oh god, okay, we gotta we gotta up that branding then because I can't even recognize our wine on the shelf because there's so many options and there's so many different ways you can do it. An embossed label, not embossed label, like it's oh, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:05

The texture, yes, and it all adds to the like, yes, a lot of again, marketing brain, like yeah, it adds to like the marketing thing, but like people we're we're tactile, right? And it's like when you're going into a grocery store, again, I'm trying to like put myself and a person that does not work in the wine industry, but like as as a woman, I'm not gonna lie, like I do go sometimes for pretty bottles. Like, those are the ones at least that capture my eye. And then thankfully, because we work in the industry, we can look at it, we kind of know what we're you know what I mean. I know if it's gonna be generally, if it'll be a decent bottle or not. But I'm not gonna sit here and say that like the label and the packaging and the whole thing, like doesn't matter. It it does, like, and and I see a lot of not just labels, like brands like branching out, doing some really interesting things on their labels, different colors, different ways, because like oh, the pressure to stand out is probably, I mean, in many industries, is like more complicated than ever.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

So, yeah, like branding is so expensive too. Like, we didn't we didn't do branded wine boxes because we're like, why? Like, who's paying that much attention to the case? Yeah, but then when you're in a liquor store and you see a stack of wine, it's all these branded wine, there's like this subconscious that you're recognizing brand all the time, and you're like, ah, no, okay. Yeah, probably should do that.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Yeah, it's part of the whole vibe, and just the yeah, yeah, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

And then you got your old farming aspect that we had touched on, right? Because wine is farming at the end of the day, as much as it is also too, but then it's farming, so you gotta and you're growing the crop essentially kind of the year before, right? Like it's your right, so it's you're relying on that, yeah. It's farming, it's marketing. We weather don't even talk about social media, yeah. Then you got the weather that you cannot control. We've had two bad years where actually the first year and it got down to negative 35, which is not normal for the area out here. We were fairly lucky, we lost about 35% of our vineyard, which wasn't the worst, but we because we planted them really low, so we were actually able to cover them with dirt. Okay, so they were at least insulated because that's like how north we are. I know California would never, but a lot of places couldn't do that though, because their vines are so tall, so they weren't able to insulate them or offer any kind of thing. Right. So we had vineyards that were losing a hundred percent of their it's and like they're pulling out 30, 40-year-old vines, and it's like, how do you recover from that? Like it's yeah.

Ve Oh Lay Name and Heritage

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Oh my gosh, not even we get into the having taking out vineyards and replanting and the expo. Yeah, we're seeing a lot of that acronym around here too, which is interesting. And again, this is like reaction to consumer behavior, and this is a really expensive risk. Is people are sometimes are they taking out whatever vineyards they had before and putting in more aromatic whites. And I'm like, that is like that's a decision, that's a really big freaking decision you're making. Like you can't go back on that. No, not for uh or it'll cost you, I guess. But like I it's yeah, yeah. Okay, really quick. You touched on like the social media, the marketing piece, because I wanted to really, as we kind of slowly start to wrap up, I wanted to touch on VLA specifically. I want to know like where the name came from, like your specific brand. I kind of want to dig into that. So maybe we can touch on this, you know, the social media, the marketing aspect, like as we're talking about that. But like, give me a little bit of background on your brand specifically, how you came up with it, your vibe, just all the things.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Yeah, so VLA is actually the phonetic spelling of our last name. It looks like Violet, yeah, my husband's friend. Okay, and we feel so like everyone always pronounces it wrong. So we're like, oh, we're gonna spell it phonetically and like we'll one-up everyone. It's kind of just as hard, not gonna lie. So, like, it was good intentions. Um he also has such a long lineage of winemaking, so that was kind of like our way of like tying it back to the family. Um, his winemaking stuff goes back to 1866, like over into Europe. The winery is actually still functioning, it's not family-owned anymore, but it still is functioning in Europe. It's own actually owned by Bernard Ricard. Okay, and they do a wild but a bunch of different stuff out of it, they're doing like cognacs and spirits and liqueurs and stuff. Because it's like this huge alien leader facility. Like, there's so many things that they do.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Yeah, so this is in France specifically. That okay, like just generally speaking, like where in France is it? I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Um, in Perpignan, okay. Per Perpignon? Yeah, yeah. South of France. South, okay, gotcha. Cool. Yeah. So, and then it was his grandparents who came over and they actually started the first winery in the Fraser Valley out here, okay, which is another little wine region, like close close to like Vancouver, if you're familiar with BC, and that's like where we met. Uh, that's like where I really started like the winemaking side of my career, and that's like where he like grew up. So it was kind of like this way to like tie it all together while kind of honoring the lineage, honoring ourselves. And then we went with a very non-traditional winery, we're very casual. We really wanted to go into that farm aspect and kind of remind people that's like, yes, this is a farming byproduct, essentially. Like there's tractors going all the time. We have a lot of animals, so we use a lot of our animals for like crop rotation, manure, things like that. We are mostly spray-free. We when we do spray, we still use organic sprays because some things you just you can't get away from. But we use like there's chickens everywhere, there's ducks, like they're out in the vineyard, the pigs are in the vineyard. Um the weed stuff. Yeah, it's like full farm aspect. And we've tried our best to like contain the animals, but they also they just they're animals go to get out. So, like, we really wanted this fun, casual wine experience. I mean, have like this like beautiful outdoor, grassy setting. We don't have a lot of indoor space, but it's just like a place you can come and be casual. I love it. So that's what we really use it as is like a casual wine experience. Yeah, I love and like Napa's so big for that too. Like, I love that like get all dolled up, dressed up, heels, and it's like this whole time and place sure, but time, right? And like because we're also such a small team, it's like I don't know if I can be I I can be like like on like that all the time. It's exhausting, and it's it would say reflective of who I am as a person. So it's like I didn't want to build just a business, it was more building like a lifestyle for the two of us, something that fits seamlessly into our life that it is reflective, like obviously, yes, of course, we're still professional and all of those things, but it's really reflective of who we are as individuals, and some people love it, some people don't, and that's okay. Like, this is not the space for you then. Like, that's fine. Yeah, go get, I'm sorry, your heels got stuck in my vineyard dirt. It's you know, it's I'm sorry if we don't have a lot of paved pathways.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Also, know where you are, like, you know, that that's that's really funny because there are definitely tourists and things that we'll see out here that like forget where they are. Because honestly, Sonoma, more a little more so than Napa, is definitely Napa has such a bad rap for being a little bit pretentious. There's definitely some wineries that are not, but Sonoma is it leans a little bit more casual and into like this less heels, like that kind of vibe, which I think people appreciate. But it's still so funny to me that no matter where you are, like there's always gonna be some people that like dress wrong who are just not for like where they are, or they'll go to wineries and like we live near like kind of a Pinot and Chardonnay area here, for example, and they're like, Oh, I really like like bigger boulder reds, like Cabernet. Do you have a Cabernet? It's like no. Do you even know where you did? You look online before you came here? Like, did you do any research before coming here? And you know, just not even it's just funny. I could go on and on about that, but it's like that's not what we're known for, you know. So I could I but what I really appreciate, and sorry, I don't mean to cut you off, but I'm just gonna say, I really appreciate the authenticity. I think that's what people want and need more than ever right now. And I think you made an amazing move and leaning into that and not trying to like, you know, put a front on because it's like what you think other people would have wanted. You know what I mean? You're being, and that's you're being yourselves, and people are gonna feel that. And I'm sure they do when they visit you guys.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Yes, I hope they do, anyways. It seems like it. So we're gonna be entering our fourth summer this year. So we're still like brand new, but like our repeat customers that we have, it's it's not like now it's just like they'll even email me and like let me know when they are coming. They're like, hey, this is the week that we're coming up. It's like, oh my god, yes, David Sharon, 30 year in a row, let's go. Like, it's you're just like they're friends, like we've become friends for so many of us, and I think that's what I really love about it, is that it's we can just make it more of like an intimate experience. And we are a small winery at the end of the day, too. Like our capacity is a hundred people outside, like it's we pour wine on tap following into that like casual wine experience. So a lot of wines come on tap. Only there's very few ones that we pour by the bottle. Usually, like limited wines are done by the bottle. We do like wine flights, we have wine slushies. I will eat I offer if someone wants ice cube in their wine, or I'm like, absolutely, like, why not? Who am I to tell you how to drink your stuff?

SPEAKER_01 40:27

Wine's very subjective, right? Every it's yeah, what you think the best vintage is, or whatever. There's a winery that I went to in Napa once, and it was they I think they gave us maybe like three wines, right? And they were like, Okay, what is there's the best vintage out of all this? Which bet you know, vintage do you think is the best? We all had our different guesses or whatever. And he was like, at the end of it, it was kind of like a little anticlimactic, but he was like, The best vintage is whichever one that you liked the most. And we were like, okay. But it was like my first, I was like youthful 20s at that point, and I didn't, I wasn't in the wine industry yet. And I was like, but that was like my first lesson, and like, oh, it really is how you prefer it. It really because your taste buds are different than the person next to you, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:08

So yeah, I'm all like real connection versus like flashy techniques, yeah.

Social Media Consistency

SPEAKER_01 41:15

You know, yep, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Okay, really quick, kind of my last thing for you, because you mentioned social media, so I'd be remiss if I didn't, you know, touch on that, especially being in that but that part of the industry. How has that been for you? I that's another thing where I feel like a lot of wineries are always trying to find their identity and what works and what resonates. And what have the learnings been for you there?

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Oh god, yeah, and it's like a full, full, full, full-time job. It's it's ever evolving. As someone who works in it, I'll tell you, it's like consistency is definitely key over perfection. That is the one thing that I learned. I used to be so paranoid, I don't know if I'd be paranoid, but like just like over micromanaging like posts and videos, and like, oh my god, we should take out the last three seconds. Like, no, just post it. Like, just get it be consistent. So, consistency over perfection for sure. There's not like a day that goes by that I don't want to like hurl my phone into the lake. I feel your pain, it's constantly there all the time. There's luckily so many tools out there though. So now it's a matter of like building better systems. So, like using an automated poster, using like like when someone follows us, it'll be like an automatic greeter message, or like, hey, these are upcoming events, like things like that, like using the tools around to help stay on top of it. Posting on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and threads and TikTok and God knows whatever else comes out there. It's yeah, it's just being consistent, I think, is the biggest thing that I've learned. Yeah, and then that authenticity and just putting it out there, going on your stories, interacting. It's not just like these perfectly curated videos, it's going on your stories, walking in the vineyard with like live with what's happening, going through harvest, like these are the grades we got. This is what's happening. Like, oh, it's raining right now at the winery, but hey, we got covered, we got umbrellas, or people got mold wine. Let's go, still come hang out. It's yeah, really opening up the dialogue and using it more to connect versus just like a great feed.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Um, in terms of identity, though, it's so chaotic, and there's like a bunch of different stuff. There's animals on there, there's like trendy reels on there, there's like random photos. We just put it all out there. Yeah, we we fragment though, right? Like it's because we're still so new and young. We don't really like yes, we have an idea of whatever our identity is, but we don't know like what makes something go viral. All right, yeah. So it's okay, we're gonna try it this way, and then we're gonna try it this way. And it's like, okay, what performs better? So, like, lots of like A B testing has been going on, and it's yeah. Yeah, but it's it's a full-time common restaurant.

Human Connection Over Luxury

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Yeah. I love that though. You know what? I I think people are leaning into like, I'm not calling you guys messy, but they're leaning into the messy. You know what I mean? Like, yes, sure, there might be like a backbone of the brand identity and stuff like through it, but I definitely work with some brands that are that are quite curated, right? Or they lean into the really professional photography. And some of the more like trendy things that we might do, like tend to do better. Cause I think people appreciate the authenticity. They're appreciating something that's not uber polished, right? It's it's it's starting to feel a little less relatable. And I think also, especially on TikTok, like seeing a face behind the brand, if you will. So, like for some brands that don't have the winemaker like readily available, or maybe they just don't feature the winemaker. That's not a thing. Like just posting bottle after bottle after bottle, like it gets so boring. And I get why people aren't resonating with that. They want to see a lot of different sides of a brand because they want to be able to connect with it. There, there has to be some human element that makes it relatable and interesting and like worth drinking out of every other freaking wine or anything else that they could possibly be.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

It's it's the conversation, it's experience, it's not just and I'm so tired of this whole like winemakers, like this mystical creature that's like too good to talk to anyone. It's like they're stuff, like, yes, like it's I'm regularly in the tasting room. It's it's and sometimes I'm like dressed up for the tasting room. Sometimes I've been in the vineyard, so I like look like a farm person, and they're like, Oh, do you even work here? You are yeah. Oh, do I have yes? But that's I think that's what makes it better though, because it's why why are we drinking a product from someone but we're not allowed to talk to the person who made it? Yeah, take down that barrier, like break the fourth wall. Exactly. And like the fact that like winemakers are marketed for like dinners or like you can have like like a curated tasting for like uh hundreds and hundreds of dollars from the winemaker. Like, it's like damn. I understand they're very busy people, obviously, and like time is worth money. Yeah, like it's so nice to be actually to be able to put that human connection in, like it's a business that feels human, yeah, not just product. Yeah, yeah, not three.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

No, definitely. Because yeah, people can't taste the wine through a social post, right? Like, and especially if they can see where it's coming from, see the terroir, see how beautiful the estate is, whatever, how the rain is gonna affect the vines that day if the rain came a little early, you know, like people sometimes nerd out on that stuff. So, like, I think it's important for wineries not to like underestimate that type of thing when they're, you know, and and I think it does help re if they're really, you know, there's a lot about reaching a younger consumer right now, like that's what's gonna help get. And even if it doesn't go viral, right? It's not even like the virality, because like, yeah, you might get followers, but then are they even engaged at that point, you know? Or that's just that's a for us, like that's a vanity metric at this point. So, like, I'll also encourage anyone you're listening, whether it's your personal profile or anything else, like we always say, like, don't even try and go for viral stuff because it like it, yeah, sometimes it can help. And yeah, some people might find you and get really engaged after that, but then like, but a lot don't. And you know, so it's it's so fleeting, right? So, you to come back to your point, you want to build the community and actually engage and have like those meaningful conversations. Yeah, and like control or in person.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

Marketing marketing's an extension of how you treat people. So I think if you have like a very like standoffish, perfectly curated feed, it's and your wiring might not necessarily whatever business, it might not be that way, but I think it it's definitely off a certain way a little arm's length. It's like, yeah, yeah. And it's like there's something like there's like a really like funny feed or personable, or it's like sometimes I do just vibing with the person that's doing their videos. I'm like, yes, I want to go there. Like you seem fun. Yes, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

We need more fun, we all need more fun and more wine. More fun, yeah, more fun and more wine. Madison, this was amazing. I I knew I was gonna have so much fun picking your brain and just digging into all sides of wine and building a business in a very, again, just fun but so volatile industry sometimes. But this was such a great conversation. I'm I'm just so grateful to you for coming on and sharing, you know, all sides of it with us. I could talk to you all day about wine. Let's be real.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

I know. I feel like you're like, okay, we're gonna be 45 minutes, we're gonna be dialed in, we're gonna stay on track. I feel like we could be here for hours. Let's be let's be so real.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

But again, thank you so much for coming on. And where can people find you? Perhaps buy your wines if they're able to. I know shipping things, it's always difficult, but yes, connect with you on social, all the things.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

Yes, so social or just about on every platform you can think of, V Ola Acres, V-E-O-H-L-A-Y Acres. Same thing with our website, Volacres.ca. We are across BC with our wine. We're across Canada with our non-alcoholic, which is branded as Muse. So definitely look out for that if you're trying to find some good non-alcoholic wine. And then for all of our American followers, you're gonna have to come visit us. But we do actually allow RVs on site as well, too. So, and it's actually free to stay. So bring your RV, pack up the family, come hang out with us for the weekend. We got a beach volleyball court, we have a nine-hole discount. Yeah, we got there's animals around, we'll just like let the kids in the field, we'll drink wine, we do lots of events, barbecue, live music. So it's it's a fun place to be in summer. So come visit.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

A fun vibe. Wow. And then are you guys closed for part of the season?

SPEAKER_00 49:48

I imagine, because it's uh it can get we're yeah, we get pretty terrible winters out here, so we're from May long to September long. Okay, and then we kind of like concentrate that and just go hard and fun. So cool.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

Yeah, amazing. Yeah, sounds great. Awesome. Well, all of that will be linked in the show notes, but again, Madison, thank you so much for coming on. This was this was so fun.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

No, thank you so much, Sarah. This is fantastic.