Thriving Artists: The Daily Joyride with Robyn Cohen

How To Heal Past Trauma And Live A Liberated Life with Childhood Bestie/Psychologist Dusty Persels Menick

• Robyn Cohen • Episode 7

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What secrets from the past come to light when you reunite with a lifelong friend? How do early challenges shape your life's purpose and resilience? What does it take to let go of shame and rediscover joy amidst mental health challenges? How can we truly connect in an increasingly disconnected world? In this dynamic episode of The Daily Joyride, host Robyn Cohen joins forces with her dearest childhood friend Dusty Persels Menick, a competitive gymnast turned clinical psychologist with over 15 years of experience in the mental health field. Dusty dives deep into her areas of expertise: assisting new mothers, children, adolescents, and adults facing mental health challenges. Together, they explore their shared history, the journey to embracing authentic lives, and the transformative power of therapy. Dusty’s mesmerizing journey from a spirited child to a compassionate therapist offers invaluable insights and life lessons. Tune in to discover how to transform life's messes into powerful messages and build compassionate, authentic connections. This episode is a heartfelt blend of nostalgia, wisdom, and unfiltered joy that will leave you inspired, uplifted and pleasantly surprised.

  • Connect with Dusty (Dustin L.) Menick for Counseling Services: http://www.mococounseling.com/
  • See Dusty’s Dynamo Daily Outfits on IG: @RetailRelated https://www.instagram.com/retailrelated?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==

💕 Welcome Back to The Daily Joyride Podcast!

🎊 In appreciation for tuning in, I made you a special MP3 Free Audio Guide called: '5 Proven Ways to Peace and Power,' that promises to infuse your days with ease, calm and strength. (in under 7 minutes!) 

FREE GIFT!👇

https://mailchi.mp/cohenactingstudio/free-gift-to-freedom

🔔 Don’t forget! Acting Classes are open to ALL Auditors - for FREE through Tuesday, March 4th!

Class Dates:

  • Feb. 18th (6pm pt: online)
  • Feb. 25th (7pm pt: online & in-person)
  • March 4th (7pm pt: online & in-person) 

For a free audit, email: robyn@cohenactingstudio.com

or contact me at the Studio: www.cohenactingstudio.com 

If you’re ready to GET TO WORK, there are still a couple of spots left for actors to get “on their feet!” in class!

Register Here: www.cohenactingstudio.com

If you can’t make it Tuesdays, never fear! Group classes and one-on-one coaching are available throughout the year-👍

👉 Follow me on Instagram: @RobynCohenActingStudio - for ongoing inspiration, updates, and encouragement!

Thank you for leaving a review of the Podcast! It helps SO MUCH to reach more awesome people like you!

Timestamps:

13:42 - High School Reflections and Challenges

21:15 - Navigating Personal and Professional Relationships

27:30 - Embracing Life and Overcoming Shame

38:55 - Facing Judgement and Embracing Freedom

44:30 - A Life-Changing Accident

52:18 - Influence of a Feminist Mother

1:15:43 - The Importance of Compassion and Empathy

Trigger Warning: This episode discusses themes of sexual abuse of adolescents. If you or someone you know needs support, help is available. In the U.S., you can contact RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline at 800-656-HOPE (4673) or visit rainn.org for confidential support. You are not alone. Help is available 24/7. 💕 

Email any Q's to: Robyn@CohenActingStudio.com

Robyn Cohen:

hello, fabulous friends. Welcome back to The Daily Joyride Podcast. I'm Robyn Cohen. And today's episode is meant to rock your world just like it did mine. Kind of like the first time I saw Back to the Future with Michael J. Fox because we're going to do a little time travel as I reconnect with one of my long lost. Best childhood friends, Dusty Persels Menick, an incredible mom and psychologist and family therapist in the Maryland area where we're from. And we're going to venture into some untold E true Maryland stories from our ute as we open up. A can of worms, really, or a kind of time capsule into our shared past to reveal some newfound revelations and connections in what proved to be a truly healing and profound conversation Dusty's perspectives on compassion and empathy and letting go of resistance. It's going to ignite something in you. Speaking of lighting up your life, I've opened up all of my online and in person acting classes to all auditors for free through March 4th. And that, my friends, is the place where you're going to get not only a massive infusion of inspiration, but make powerful and long lasting connections, Just like I was so lucky to make with Dusty Persels lo' those four decades ago. So reach out to me on Instagram at Robyncohenactingstudio or by email at Robyn@cohenactingstudio. com And find out all the details in the show notes so you can jump in just like we're about to do right now. Let's go. Hello, hello, everyone. Welcome back to the daily joyride. I am so excited. honored, titillated, to have my, dear friend since the dawn of time, Dusty Persels Menick on the show today. Dusty is, a friend of mine from elementary school and we're not going to get into the year. We're not going to get into the actual years that we met the dates of when we were in school, but a long, long time ago, and from the time that I met her, you just always, Dusty, remain someone that in my heart is like just one of the yummiest, most delicious humans that I've ever known. So a little bit about Dusty. Dusty is a licensed clinical professional counselor based in Bethesda, Maryland. I was actually born at the Bethesda Naval Hospital and my parents recently told me, Dusty, that The receipt for my being born at the Bethesda Naval is 14. 99. Like, apparently it was on sale and then my mom later says to me, she says, you know what? It was worth every penny, all 1499 on sale for my being born in Bethesda. uh, your focus is on supporting new mothers, children. Adolescents and adults who are facing various mental health challenges. Dusty has over 15 years of experience in the mental health field. She specializes in assisting new mothers with the transition to parenthood and addressing postpartum stress and depression. Her practice also encompasses working with children, adolescents, and adults who are dealing with anxiety, depression, trauma, Relationship issues and life transitions and your therapeutic approach. You emphasized, Dusty, the importance of understanding how personal dysfunctions can influence parenting and relationships. And you believe that recognizing maladaptive patterns often shaped by early experiences is crucial for facilitating change. I love that. Your approach is client centered, focusing on building a strong therapeutic connection to promote awareness and transformation. You earned a degree from John's Hopkins University in 2004, uh, and I love this, quote that you have on your site. It says, Our connection is of utmost importance. Together, we must recognize the maladaptive patterns in your life that are causing distress. Oftentimes, these patterns are shaped by our early experiences. With increased awareness of these patterns and why they exist, change is possible. When you say it, Dusty, I believe it. I believe it! Like, I just believed it for the first time. So the Dusty that I first met and loved instantly, is doing back handsprings, backflips, we're at recess, we're at summer camp, we're playing, we're like, When I'm just around you and we're just having so much fun, whatever we're doing, your spirit and your life spark is so effervescent and emanating, so that whenever I think of you, I just, it's like thinking about Tinkerbell, you know, like Peter Pan, you know, like Tinkerbell. It's just like, it's just like this ball of light, like flipping around the cosmos. Like that's you for me. And, I'd love to hear how, and When did it become clear for you that you were gonna, embark upon this incredible trajectory to becoming a therapist and doing what you do in the world? where do you think that idea was born? You know, what was the inspiration for that? I mean, it's been such an incredible journey. I these amazing institutions and people you've worked with. And, so if you can take us back a little bit, and it can be, you know, we can go back to elementary school. We can start wherever sure. Sure.

Dusty:

First of all, thank you so much for having me on. I love seeing your face. I wish we were in person, but we're going to get there. Yeah. I, you know, before I even talk about kind of how that journey began, I have to say, you know, I have similar memories of us as little girls. Um, I'm sure I was doing back handsprings and backflips everywhere, everywhere I went. But I also remember, uh, sleepovers with you where we would, we always made pizza bagels. Um, and in the evening I had trouble sleeping. I was, you know, I just had trouble sleeping and I used to make you sing to me before bed. and I would always have you sing a song from Les Miserables. I don't know if you remember that or not, but that is how I would lay in bed and listen to you sing until I could fall asleep. and I love that memory. I love that memory of the two of us. well, so anyhow, I think honestly, elementary school as I I feel really lucky that I knew my passion really, really early on. I can remember being at recess talking about how I was going to be a therapist one day. And

Robyn Cohen:

you're like eight years old. Wow. And you just had a sense of that. Probably.

Dusty:

Yeah. And I think I didn't understand why yet. I knew it's what I wanted to do. I didn't understand why I wanted to do it. I think as I got older. High school and college is when I recognized that, the dysfunction that I had grown up in, I wanted to understand, and I needed to understand it for myself, I needed to understand how it affected me in the world, and I was terrified of repeating the dysfunction. but I think it was mainly like I want, I wanted people to understand me. And so I kind of turned it outward, like, Well, then I better understand other people, and that was a large part, I think, of my interest in psychology in like the helping profession. and I think, you know, when we talk about maladaptive, patterns, they start as actually really adaptive. They just, at some point lose purpose and then they don't work for you anymore. Right. As a kid. My main, way of adapting to the family I grew up in was to really seamlessly be able to fall in line with other people, you know, meet people's needs. Understand what made them comfortable because I wanted to get out of my house. And so in order to, have your mom want me to sleep over three nights a week, and take me on family vacations and, you know, buy groceries at your house that I wanted to eat. I had to be pretty perfect. I couldn't risk imperfection and them not, those families around me not wanting me. Um, and that was very

Robyn Cohen:

adaptive and useful at the time to get those needs met.

Dusty:

Absolutely. And that's what happens with people. there are these skills that they create for themselves that become habitual, become patterns. But at some point. Perfectionism, for example,

Robyn Cohen:

it's, and the disease to please, which I've suffered from, uh, I'm a recovering, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I am too.

Dusty:

So you, you look over time. Oh, wow. This is not working anymore, but trying to change those patterns is really difficult. So, yeah, I think, all of those revelations for me were sort of, It wasn't like I just all of a sudden hit me. I think it was just sort of this like tidal wave of one thing after another happening and then slowly understanding, okay, this is, this is why I behave the way I do. this is how it's affecting me now and this is how I can change it.

Robyn Cohen:

Yeah. There's a brilliance in the way you figured out a path forward where you could get your needs met as a young person. and I think. we all come up with survival mechanisms, defense mechanisms to help get us through the day. I mean, one of the reasons I needed to have you on this show is because in my experience, growing up, um, more in high school I felt so, um, alone and isolated at the time. You know, on the one hand, I was in the performing arts community there. Like as a freshman, I was suddenly with like the upperclassmen and I was doing their shows and the West side stories. And I had just gotten there. and there was a rift where I felt like I was no longer, you know, I, suddenly I was sort of like floating away from my actual classmates, from my friends from childhood, from you and Rachel and like just people that I had we had had countless sleepovers and done these we'd had these amazing adventures together. And I was suddenly in this other world. and there was a lot in that world being with people that were not in my grade, not actually my peers, that I felt I had to survive. and I have, over the years, I have, I've, like, missed, I have missed so deeply the friendships that I had before that rift happened. I've, like, longed for, I dream about, I dream about being, like, ten years old again. Aww. Quite a bit. And it's a dream about like just playing and being with my childhood friends that at a certain point I had to separate from and isolate myself to survive some things that were going on at that time in our high school. that, left me feeling like there was a real in my adulthood. I just have I felt this huge missing like a missing of that. And so I just bring that up to say like, yeah, the ways that we try to get through the day and survive life, end up in adulthood becoming things that no longer work for you. Like, I'm now engaged to a lovely man who's like, feeding the cats and he's incredible, a wonderful, yummy, loving human being who you'll meet when you come to live in California. Um, but until four years ago, I had never lived with another human being. Yeah. and part of that is, of course, you can't just live with anybody. right? And I'm in my right mind not to partner up like that's actually a positive, healthy, good choice. But part of that was an isolation that had to do with survival. That was sort of dripping into my whole life and into adulthood that wasn't useful. And that was built upon, trying to survive something that was no longer happening in my everyday existence. But I was still like a high schooler trying to survive. And, you know, sidebar. You know that, so I'm very much invested in the performing arts programs and the music programs. And, you know, six years after I graduated, the person that ran the music program was in prison. Okay. So that's a lot Yeah. Um,

Dusty:

it's interesting. Let's go back a little bit. you, you may not recall this, but in ninth grade. So when we went into our freshman year, I didn't go to our high school, our freshman year, because my mom had moved. away. And I had to go to school where we had bought a new house, which was 20 minutes away. So my freshman year, I started over at a brand new school, which had its own impact. so what's interesting is when I came back to our high school, a whole year had happened. I would not have seen the progression of you sort of rifting away from the group of girls that we had all grown up with because I came back almost like, I didn't know what had happened the whole year. And from an outsider perspective, you know, these are before the days of social media, but you know, you were the superstar and, you know, you were the, the lead of every, you know, play. Every musical, every, you know, you were the star. And so I don't think it would have dawned on a young me to think that you would have been lonely or something was going on because in my mind, you know, you were the highlight reel, right? I was seeing you on stage. I was watching you perform to me. That was your element. and you know, all in we're worried about ourselves in high school. we're focused on what we're going through and we think everybody can see what we're going through. Um, you know, everybody was talking about the dysfunction that was in my family or the, how I was different than everyone else. Um, it's interesting that you say you felt alone because I, I think I did too, even though I was surrounded by high levels of social, you know, I had the friends, I had the parties. I was the cheerleader. I did all the things.

Robyn Cohen:

Why do we feel, what is this lie of separation that, that is so insidious? It's so pervasive. Like, how do we get people to get that they're not alone? And your life's work has so much to do with that. But it's like, we've bought into, Two lies, I think. I think there's two lies that we have bought into that existed before we got here and it's the lie of separation that we're somehow alone and disconnected in the cosmos, which is a very, very scary notion, and the lie of scarcity. on a planet that is capable of feeding the globe if we were to rearrange our resources. and I think it creates a lot of dis-ease when we believe that we are. alone when we believe that things are scarce. Yeah, so then

Dusty:

we look, you know, confirmation bias at its best. We look for all the times that we are left, that we are alone, that somebody did not show up for us. which only makes us, we then try to be less vulnerable and, you know, I think in my journey of trying to, when you talk about joy or happiness, my journey has been recognizing that connection is everything, literally, whether it's connection to my own personal, physical body. Connection to nature, and then most importantly, connection in relationships. I mean, as a society, we survived as a species because we were social beings that helped one another. We cannot survive if we isolate. yeah. And COVID was an example of, ways in which we isolated that had such a profound impact. profound effect on our mental health.

Robyn Cohen:

Yeah.

Dusty:

Because the one thing that is most necessary for us to survive, we, you know, it was taken from us. Yeah.

Robyn Cohen:

Yeah. Your amazing family, two children, your husband, Mark. I love that. Like, that's not something that I could have seen coming in high school because Mark was like, Right? Like, how? What? Like, how? Your husband, like, he was an upperclassman and we're like, and he's like a tall drink of water, right? Tall, dark all the things. But he was like, not in our grade. And at that time, at that time, and by the way, we are going to have to go back and just revisit that we did date the same boy. His name starts with a G. We'll just call him G. G. Lovely. The lovely G. Um, we'll get into all of that, but you know, when I think about the fact that we dated for a long time, like I dated, we got the best couple of the year award in eighth grade. Remember they would have those superlatives in like the yearbook. We were, we were donned. Best couple of the year in eighth grade. And after eighth grade, we dated for like over a year. Like this

Dusty:

was like a, this was like one of the long break up right before, You started dating, which I think was

Robyn Cohen:

in ninth, what

Dusty:

grade? I started dating him in 10th grade. We didn't

Robyn Cohen:

overlap, but what's so funny about that Dusty is like at the time. And he, even when I think about

Dusty:

it, that was like, no problem for me. Cause it was you. No, it was like,

Robyn Cohen:

There's like a warm glow about it, I'm like, yes, of course, we have the same taste, we always, of course, like, and it's such a unique thing because nowadays, as a grown up, if you go and you start dating or marrying one of your best friend's spouses, immediately, like, it doesn't work in, like, the world now, as I know it, but what's so spectacular is, like, I love that we both had, like, deep, loving relationships with the same boy in tandem. For some reason, that just makes me so happy. And I'm like, why can't the world just, like, always get along like that? Like, yeah, you're meant to be with someone for the time you're meant to be with them, and then you move on, and then share, Share the, share the love,

Dusty:

share the love. I don't rem, I, I knew that you guys had dated. I don't remember like actively thinking about that when him and I started dating in my defense. However, this is not the only, you know, Mark, my husband, my high school sweetheart was Mark's best friend. So apparently we have a pattern. Wait, Mark's best friend, Mark's best friend starts with a J, was my boyfriend all through my junior and senior year of high school into college. So when Mark and I started dating, it was a little scandalous, even though we, the ex had not been together for several years, several And obviously we've moved past that and we're all good friends again. So, you know, the possibility still exists. I think maybe, I wonder if it depends on, how successful the relationship ship was. I mean, G, um, was a good guy, right? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if that makes a difference. You know? Yes. Hopefully.

Robyn Cohen:

I think it does, because it's a sum of its parts. And I agree, there were a lot of just good moving parts. And so it's so interesting life like. this idea of, it's all a hologram on some level, you know, like it's a moment by moment creation, depending on what we're focusing on, where our focus goes, our energy flows. I mean, we've heard these kinds of things. but these days I'm starting to really look at this idea of being. a receiver, like a, almost like a radio receiver. And depending on like where we're tuning in, that's the music we're going to hear. and in the same way that a radio. You remember old fashioned radios? I used to listen. We used to listen to radios, folks. And in the same way that, you would tune the radio to 103. 5, 107. 3, and depending on where you tuned the radio, you would be listening to hard rock or reggae or classical music. But what's so fascinating is that all that music is actually always there. Right. It's literally all, yeah, all of that music and every station in the universe, all those sound vibrations are literally there all the time. It's just, they're hidden in plain sight. It's literally like hidden in plain sight. And that's kind of a roundabout way, long way to a ham sandwich. I just heard that phrase recently, long way to a ham sandwich. I don't eat ham, I'm a vegan for 25 years, but, um,

Dusty:

I feel like you make a ham sandwich pretty quick.

Robyn Cohen:

Well, maybe, maybe. Yeah, I don't know how long it takes. I don't cook. And I want the listeners to know, it's not that I don't love food and love arranging things, I'm a good arranger, but just to give you an idea my oven is a very good place to store extra shoes because it makes a great shoe rack. If it's not being used as an oven, your oven is great. Extra storage but to toggle back to this idea of like, what's all always already there, but hidden in plain sight, it's almost like, there's something about Mark being someone that you knew that was like in your consciousness, in your awareness. But then there was a moment. There was a moment or many moments where you started to tune your receiver to be like What's this station playing? Was there like some sort of awakening like, ah, that's great music or how did that come into existence? you just started to see this person in a different way or newly or for the first time or What, and what was it about him that was like, that's the music I want to listen to?

Dusty:

that's, it's a great question. I don't, I don't really know other than that. He pursued me for a long time. Of course. We've all been chasing Dusty down for years Yes. Yes. So I, you know, he was in my awareness for a long time as like a suitor, if you want to call him that. And then there was just a point in my life where I think I was ready to receive what he was offering and, uh, and it opened myself up to it. we started dating when I was 24, turning 25. I don't think prior to that I was ready. and so, you know, and he could have given up at any point. Place along the way, uh, but he didn't. So I think eventually I just was open to it like you said and I believe that to be true about a lot of different aspects of life that you know in the same way that you're talking about like that it's there's always the chatter is always there and it's sort of what you're tuning into it's really important to pay attention to where you are. Constantly putting your focus because you will go in that direction. You know, I remember in driver's ed, the, the instructor is saying, if there's an accident on the side of the road and there's like, you know, the cones on the side of the road, don't look at the cones because you will steer towards the cones. Look at where you want to go. Yeah. Not at what's happening off to the side. Yeah. And that's sort of the way I look at a lot of this. Like, you know, do I wanna be a hateful person? Do I wanna be You know, the person that wallows in victimhood. and that, that's not to say that all those things don't have it's place sometimes and I wanna vent and, you know, be catty or I wanna, you know, feel why me every once in a while. But for the most part, I would like to tune into the things. That put me in the direction of the person I want to be, not the thing I'm trying to avoid.

Robyn Cohen:

Yeah, that's beautiful. And. When I think about, as you were sharing, the dysfunction when you were growing up and the challenges in your house and with your, family and trying to get away from all that, and also carving out a life where you could ensure that you wouldn't repeat those things. Um, what was the big mess? that you were able to turn into a message that is your life? I like

Dusty:

that question. Um, you know, my parents divorced or separated when I was three. So my father had moved out when I was really young. my mom was diagnosed bipolar, um, majority of my childhood unmedicated or under medicated or on and off. and was an alcoholic. so I spent a lot of my childhood doing a few things. Number one, trying to, hide that from other people because that felt embarrassing to me. and also getting really good at reading the room, right? What was I walking into in the afternoon? Was she going to be manic? Was she going to be, depressed, angry, agitated, sad, drunk, sober, you know, so you, you get really good. I got really good at understanding where she was. And then depending upon that, you know, going to my room, going to gymnastics, going to my girlfriend's houses, hanging out with her, right? Like I needed to be able to read what was going on for her. And then, you know, adjust my needs based on that, which often meant cut your needs off because they're not going to get met. and I say this all at the same time as saying my mother had traits that I absolutely admire to the core. You know, my mother, she was an artist. you know, she died only six weeks ago. so that's really fresh for me. She was an artist. She was, she talked about Tinkerbell and living life. She was the quintessential Peter Pan, I guess. Right. She was the one that, that, you know, jumped up in the middle of the party and started to dance. She was the one that stood in line at the diving board at the pool with us. she never shied away from living. And, and I loved that, you know, sometimes embarrassed the hell out of me, but, but in many ways I have taken that into the way I parent my own kids. So mess to message, she was, she was very lively in that way and not embarrassed to be who she was. and although it was embarrassing as a kid, as an adult, I'm in line at the diving board.

Robyn Cohen:

And doing the most amazing handstands all around the world. And on these vacation spots, you can rock a handstand like nobody I've ever seen at any age, at any time ever.

Dusty:

It's funny. Every year I get back on the diving board and I think, Oh, is this going to be the year that I can't do a one and a half, you know, deep morning on that day. It hasn't happened yet. Every year I've still been able to do it. and the handstands actually came out of, My diagnosis of colon cancer six years ago. I'm totally fine. and, I was very, very lucky, but after my diagnosis and surgery, I decided that I was going to like grasp life with a little bit more joy, and I wanted to travel. It was something I always wanted to do this travel more. So I said, You know what? I love messing around. I love doing handstands and flips. And I'm the mom at the neighborhood trampoline, jumping with the kids. And so I wanted to just, you know, You know, have fun with it. and it's funny, people will say to me, like, like various questions. How do you get away with that? Or, the questions that make it seem like they want to do it too, but they're too embarrassed or afraid.

Robyn Cohen:

Yeah.

Dusty:

You know, like, I can't believe you'll get on the diving board, you know, and like with all the kids in line,

Robyn Cohen:

What gives you the courage, the gumption to be you and to live full out and to take every day and do handstands and flips no matter what the age. And I see you doing it when you're 105, by the way. but how do we get, how do we get over that wall? I think it has to do with caring so much about what other people think and trying to look good. Um

Dusty:

Yeah. I had to stop that. Yeah. I spent so many years hiding, hiding myself because of my embarrassment and it was very, you know, the community we grew up in, it's very, married couples, the, professionals, highly educated, not that my parents weren't highly educated professionals, but you know, it, there were, I didn't have a friend who had divorced parents when we were growing up. I certainly didn't have a friend who had a parent who was openly, you know, addict or diagnosed, mental illness. I mean, if that was happening, that was very hidden, whereas mine really wasn't. It was sort of out there and people knew. So I spent so many years curating, hiding that and showing outward perfection and not embarrassing myself. I mean. I don't even like blowing my nose in public.

Robyn Cohen:

God forbid, God forbid. I'm going to blow my nose. When

Dusty:

I tell you if I'm in class or somewhere in public and I see someone blow their nose out in the open, I am like. Jealous almost. I'm like, I can't believe they can just do that without being totally ashamed at this like bodily noise.

Robyn Cohen:

Oh, what is this shame piece? This shame that gets lodged that takes over like an alien monster and Right. And kills us, and then we just become the walking dead because of this shame which is, Ah, I just, I've started to, I've started to graft shame onto things that I just don't do, like, So it's sort of this, practice where I'm so clear about things that I don't do, like, I don't do heroin. Like, I don't, I, I don't do guns. I don't do, like, there's just things that it's just like so obvious, like, there's no negotiation. It's just like, it's just so like, core of my like, identity And I've started grafting, like, I don't do heroin. I don't do, I don't do shooting. I don't do, I don't do meat. I don't do shame. I don't do heroin. I don't do shame. I don't do guilt. I don't do guilt. I don't do heroin. I don't do like, I've started to sort of group these things together to create some kind of, you know, with all the neuroplasticity just to create these pathways of like, I just don't like, don't do it. It's, it's not. And it's a practice.

Dusty:

Yes. So I think my way of doing that was to do the things that I, you know, not embarrassing things that I would deem as bad, but, you know, doing the handstand doing that. I, you know, I love clothing and I could probably trace that back to, one of my insecurities growing up was that all my girlfriends had all these beautiful designer clothing and, you know, these huge walk in closets with, a different outfit every day of the week. And I would carefully craft, I had a Wall, calendar, and every day I would write down what I wore because I didn't want to repeat the outfit too quickly because I thought people would notice that I just didn't have, I was poor and didn't have a lot of clothing. And then I would figure out how to, you know, put a different pair of pants with a different top. So even though I wore that top already that week. It would look different and maybe people wouldn't notice anyway, So, so one day I, and people as an adult would always would start to comment, Oh, you know, I like what you're wearing, where'd you get it? And, and so finally one day I thought, you know what, I'm going to start an Instagram site and start posting my daily outfits for people. I was terrified to do that. I'm terrified because I thought people are going to judge me. They're going to say, why does she, you know, she's posting pictures of herself and so egotistical, you know, nobody cares. and again, it was right after my cancer diagnosis that I was kind of like, F it, you know, like, yeah. People are asking me, I love it. It's fun. I don't care what they think anymore. Yeah. Oh, wow. I will post my outfit every day and you can like it or judge it. And that's not, you know, that's on you. That's on you.

Robyn Cohen:

That's been such a learning that that's on you piece of like, it's actually not my business. it is about you, your reaction to me is about you and and you get to be responsible for your reaction for so long. And for so many years, I'm like, I'm responsible for everyone's reaction to everything and I have to manage it and control it. Which is hell. It's literally living hell to try to control other people's reactions. And also being an actor in Hollywood, week after week, day after day, like pick me, pick me. Pick me. I can't control any of that. But thinking I can, you know, the, the suffering that goes in, into that, and also sort of just outsourcing my love and joy and power and freedom, just outsourcing it to anyone on the street, you know, And so That's been a roller coaster of divorcing myself from this disease to please and the approval. And it is amazing. Like we have these moments in life we're, we're looking at our mortality, you know, I, I had an accident. Um, I fell into an orchestra pit opening night of a production that was happening on the East coast of a Sam Shepard play. And, um, it was right before the, uh, 600 people were about to come in to see the show. We were having our final rehearsal and someone called my name. I jumped. And next thing I knew there was a hole in the stage that I. that shouldn't have been there. But I fell into the pit and, um, I broke my back and my arms and I was in a wheelchair, and I went back, this is, um, July 4th, 2013. And I went back home to Maryland to live in my father's home. mom and dad's bed because I was in a wheelchair and my back was broken. I couldn't sit up or do anything. So I'm living in my, parents bed, which is on the first floor. I had to move home because I couldn't, you know, All the things. And so, and it was in that moment that I had to, I was pulled to get in to true, authentic contact with everything I was that had nothing to do with what I showed the world. Like I had to literally I couldn't move, let alone sing or dance or act or be on a TV show like I could right so I was like, What is the everything else that I am that is? you know, has nothing to do with what I do in the world. And, since that time, I've been on this sort of journey but it ain't, it ain't easy. And it's a daily procedure. And sometimes it's very surgical, right? to go forth living the authentic version of yourself with joy and creativity and fun. And if they don't like it, No problem. But that's sometimes harder to do, on certain days than other days. And, you know, when you were sharing about your mom, just to go back for a minute. and we talked about this at our reunion, but, um, Your mom is one of the people that influenced me to go out and live my dream as an artist, as an actor, in Los Angeles, when nobody at the time was doing that. Very few, right? We're from the East Coast and we were gonna, I'm an East Coast girl, all the things. But being around you and your mom who, me, that you could go into the refrigerator and eat raw meat, that you could, we were talking about, you know, at the, at the reunion, it was your, your mom was, um, she's the first person. Feminist that I was in real contact with and I didn't know that word at the time I didn't know what that term even meant and that was what was being transmuted being in your mom's presence. I miss her so much I miss her dancing and her joie de vivre and I borrowed it I borrowed it. I didn't know that that was happening and that was transpiring at the time, but it was like, um, just being around her opened up, uh, worlds of possibility. Um, even though, you know, she was, uh, we were different kinds of artists, we were doing different kinds of arts and crafts, but It was so exciting to to be around and and the dancing that she would, you know, I was a, I was a professional dancer. That was my first career. I I remember also being at your dad's. And yes, I remember his. Grace, I remember your dad's elegance. You know, I didn't have the same amount of interaction, but I, I do, I just remember and treasure both your parents.

Dusty:

You know, My mom, uh, she, it's like she did not have a choice with art, right? It literally like came out of her pores.

Robyn Cohen:

Wow.

Dusty:

Um, that was just her. And so I don't think it was ever, you know, there wasn't anything that she was going to be able to tamp down.

Robyn Cohen:

Yeah. You

Dusty:

know, whether the good, the bad and the ugly. Um, and, and as a kid, of course, you just want to fit in and you don't want to stand out. And I can remember my friends wanting to hang out with my mom and being so annoyed, like, like she's weird or she's, you know, like crazy and like, it's embarrassing, but my friends loving it because it gave them freedom. They could say whatever they want. They could curse in front of my mom. They could talk to her about sex,

Robyn Cohen:

you

Dusty:

know, all the things that they weren't going to be able to talk to their own parent about. My father was much quieter. Um, you know, he was a farm boy from Iowa. He

Robyn Cohen:

was a farm boy with Nordic ancestors. Very Nordic. Very Nordic ancestors. Viking blood. For sure. Full on Viking blood. Game of Thrones bloodlines, but born in a farm in Iowa.

Dusty:

Right. Totally. Yeah. He tells the funniest story. He played football for Dartmouth. And when the recruiters for Dartmouth came to Iowa to watch him play, they said, you know, we're from Dartmouth. And he said, where's that? And they said out East. And he thought that meant East Iowa. He started the conversations of being recruited to play at Dartmouth, thinking that it was a school in Iowa, just on the East side. It's like, yeah, I'll take it. Perfect. Uh, but you know, I will say that that's another thing, sports, you know, when we talk about ways in which sports and coaches, and, I did not know that about the, the, the music director ended up in prison. Um, I actually, I don't know if you know this. I, one of my gymnastics coaches actually. Well, I don't think he actually went to jail. He killed himself before he went to jail. He worked very tightly with Larry Nassar. John Ketter, and I can say his name because, he is all over. He was in the documentaries about the gymnast and, and he was my coach. And then he went on and he's, he coached at the Bella Caroli ranch after he left my gym. and he knew what was going on with Larry Nassar and all the gymnasts and he hid it. and he was arrested and, and I think he killed, I know he killed himself, but I think he did it right before he knew he was about to go to prison. but those coaches have such an impact on your life. And, you know, some of them not in a great way, but sports also kind of saved me at the same time, right? Like, I was, A gymnast, that was one of my, I held onto that title. From gymnastics I was really able to do any sport I wanted because once you're a gymnast you can kind of do anything. You could do,

Robyn Cohen:

and you really could. Dusty would just defy gravity. Have you seen Wicked like five times? You know the song defy gravity. Yeah. See wicked like five times in a row. they talk about like people that just defy gravity. And that was you every day at recess. And then wherever we would go, it was like, it was the highlight of my childhood. Just watching you crush it at recess, practicing. You would practice. Yeah.

Dusty:

Yeah. Oh, yeah. My mother would, we would go to the mall and my mother would announce down the hallway of, of the mall. Everybody clear out. And then I would run down the center and do round up back handspring back flips. And again, it's this weird thing, this dichotomy between that's so like embarrassing, right? like, I can't believe that my mother would like do that and encourage me to do that. And then on the other hand, it gave me such freedom to do what I wanted to do, which was flip everywhere. I went,

Robyn Cohen:

which to me is a spiritual practice. You had mentioned that, there's something about. Dancing, flipping, a spiritual experience, through embodiment, through being in your body and connecting with, the world, through your body, through your movement, through sports, through handstands and back handsprings the metaphor I mean, We want to dance in life. We want to dance in conversations. We want to, we want to dance, right? Like the partnership, the way that we connect with people, it is a dance. it is movement based. And so, you talk about how sports and gymnastics, like it was a saving grace for you. And I do think that it is, it is in the Bible too. Singing and dancing before the Lord is in the Bible. They talk about it in Footloose, the movie with Kevin Bacon. Right. Right. Yeah. And the interesting thing

Dusty:

about the dancing is that I talk about this with my clients sometimes when we're talking about boundary setting, the dancing is such a metaphor for that too, that if you don't like the dance you're doing and you stop or you change the dance, the other person has no choice but to change with you or walk away. But you don't have to be stuck in that same dance. Um, and a lot of the times they might fight against it at first, the person that you're setting boundaries with, but eventually if they want to be in relationship with you, if they want to keep dancing with you, they will alter what they're doing to meet your needs or to appreciate and respect your boundaries and they will change the dance too. And all it takes is you just not doing the same dance you always did, which seems easy and of course it's not. But yes, it is. Dance is definitely very much a metaphor. for life in a lot of different ways.

Robyn Cohen:

100%. And it's, and it's similar to turning the station to another, you know, on the radio, well, I don't like this music. All right, let's change the station. The courage though, to change the station, Well,

Dusty:

how do you but I think that you, I, I, for so long was stuck in, why do I deserve to ask mine for my needs to be met or to change a station? I can just suck it up. Cause I know I can handle it. I know I'm tough enough. I know I can handle it. I'll just stick with the station. Everybody else is listening to right.

Robyn Cohen:

And

Dusty:

when I would see somebody else like say, no, I'm, I need this. Or I want in the beginning, I remember thinking like the nerve, how dare. Right. And now, finally coming into an age in my life where, no, like I, this is a need of mine and I have every right to speak to it I don't feel the need to apologize for it anymore. And I am working towards, feeling like, you know, if my needs aren't being met, it's okay to stop trying, you know? Yeah. you don't have to sit in discomfort forever.

Robyn Cohen:

How do you infuse people with the 20 seconds of courage it takes to say no, or to say, I'm turning the station. how do we muster the courage? Do we just keep what's on the other side of that wall in mind? because it can be so hard, I think maybe it gets easier as it becomes a practice, but it's like, transformation is so available and also it seems impossible until it's happening. Faith, I mean,

Dusty:

I think sometimes it's just realizing that you know, there was a lot of talk right now about like the emotional load that women often hold in relationships. And, what starts out as I can just handle it, right, because, you know, I can do all the things I can work full time and I can handle all the, you know, ins and outs of my family's life and the emotional, load of how to handle my kids and my husband and whatever I can do all that, but eventually that becomes resentment.

Robyn Cohen:

Yeah.

Dusty:

And resentment is the cancer that will kill it completely. So I think sometimes it's just realizing, you know what? I could keep doing what I'm doing, but it's not just going to kill me. It's going to kill us all eventually.

Robyn Cohen:

You know,

Dusty:

it's worth just trying another way. But a lot of it, is one of the most difficult parts is feeling like the self esteem is there. The self worth is there enough that like. Yeah,

Robyn Cohen:

and when I hear you share about what was going on in your closets and picking out the clothes and, and me I felt so alone and like I didn't know how to get through the day. without disease you know, I, you know, from the outside, I'm like, you're, you're everything. Like I look at you and like, we look at people and our experience of them is like, you're the best, like literally. And there's such a chasm between and I'm reckoning with how. for so long and for decades, how I have been so mean to myself, so mean, so unforgiving. I would never treat a friend, I would never talk to a friend the way I talk to myself. Like, I owe myself an apology is what I'm starting to come up with. Like, an apology for being so mean, cruel at times, and um, and forgiveness. and I love that you said we have to start to let go because there is so much over functioning, overdoing. The codependency, it is rampant, and it is doing a violence to us all, so I love the bringing in the awareness of like, rather than trying to Hold everything can we let go so that we can have the capacity that capacity isn't about putting more in I can hold this I can over function I can do everything for everyone. And we think that's us at capacity, but it becomes disease and overwhelm. So maybe rather it's like, how much can I let go? How much can I actually let go of? you know, my favorite word these days is is ease. I just love this idea in the morning of just tuning the radio station. Like in a meditation Do you meditate? Do you have a practice? a meditation practice of any kind. Yes.

Dusty:

I have a yoga practice. I do a lot of walking and that's my kind of thinking time. A lot of walking, just me too, walking, we're going

Robyn Cohen:

to, we're, I, we're going to walk for 10 miles a day. When you're out here I do have a meditation practice, but similar to the walking meditation, you know, These days it's like, remembering. to remember that it's all right, it's all right, it's all right. And I don't have to hold the world. I don't have to try to control it. You know,

Dusty:

this is where for me, having kids was so healing. I have two boys, they're 18 and 15 and, it's so easy to love them. It's just the easiest thing in the world, which is so freeing. There's it's to have that type of unconditional love and like, Really like your kids is just the coolest. But if I'm losing patience for them or I'm annoyed, or I get that level of resentment, I have learned that I, uh, it's time for me to let something go, right? Like this is not on them if they're asking and I'm feeling like they're needing too much or. You know, or I'm like resentful about something that is on me. I have to figure out what else I need to let go of rather than to, force that feeling to go away. Right? Like it's my own practice. I, there's a term that I love, love, love that sort of comes into play. A lot of this time, a time, which is. if it's hysterical, it's historical. Ooh, that's so when you really have those moments where you lose it over something, you're so triggered, you know, and you can feel it in your body, that goes way back. And you can usually figure that out. when I get triggered, when I get that, to that point with my kids or my husband, where I'm feeling like they're asking too much, right. Or I'm, feeling trapped by it. it's that feeling of being a little girl trapped in the situation I was in and not being able to do anything about it because it was a kid, you know, but we're not, kids anymore and I can do something about it.

Robyn Cohen:

And it's amazing that it sounds so simple when you say it, and yet, and yet, It ain't easy to live that. so, okay, before we say goodbye, the world is worlding, life is lifing. There's so much that is happening right now. and. at a very divided time, what do you want to give to your patients? What do you want to give to your family? What do you want to give the whole world

Dusty:

Oh, man. that's a question. I think the compassion, that's what I want to give. And in order to be compassionate, I have to be willing to try to put myself in those people's shoes, even the ones that I, to the core, fundamentally disagree with. You have to put yourself in the shoes of the other person, even a sliver of, compassion. You almost always can find compassion for that person. and I think, yeah, that's what I want to give.

Robyn Cohen:

That's so beautiful. It's amazing. I'm always talking to my actors, my students. you can't be an actor without compassion. You can't be an actor without empathy because the job is to literally step into someone else's shoes. Yeah. And to, and to walk a mile. It's literally to walk a mile in the character's shoes, which is why if you don't have access to empathy and compassion, There's no access to to the world of acting, because you're work is to literally embody to Head to toe, another human being and what that, person loves, hates, where they grew up, what their education was, what their religious practice was, uh, who they fell in love with, who broke their heart, what they live for, and what they would die for. It's your job as an actor to go and sort of map that out. And, regardless of whether you're playing a person that you. You know, in the everyday, would, not spend two seconds with. would actively avoid. Yeah. It, it becomes the work to, see what's going on with them but. nowadays, like as soon as, you know, whatever, someone flips me off, I'm like, I don't know what this person is dealing with. Like I don't know. It's my assertion that if I was just to go around, like on, the block where I live, knock on people's doors and be like, tell me your story. Like I would just fall in love with the world. You would fall in love with the world if you heard their stories they do love

Dusty:

every single client because of that same thing.

Robyn Cohen:

I believe it. And I'm clear that they have the same love for you. Yes. because that empathy, that compassion is fully felt by every single person that you come into contact with.

Dusty:

it's easier to hate from afar.

Robyn Cohen:

Ah, brilliantly said.

Dusty:

Very hard to hate somebody.

Robyn Cohen:

And what about love? What's the flip side of that?

Dusty:

Well, I don't, I don't know what the flip side is in terms of love, but I think it's very difficult to hate close up.

Robyn Cohen:

Yeah. Much easier to love When you're dancing.

Dusty:

Right. And you're understanding the movement of the other person.

Robyn Cohen:

Yeah.

Dusty:

That is something that is actually a studied science. this idea that when we are emotionally in the same place with one another is a very powerful relationship to be in with anybody. You know, it's why people feel such power during musicals and concerts when everyone is feeling the same thing, sporting event for some people, you know, Like yoga practice when you're in a studio.

Robyn Cohen:

Yeah. It's the energetics because we are in an energetic. Universe. It's all energetics. And, that's when I think you start to wave your magic wand when we're tuning into those, call them high vibes, call them good feels, whatever, call it spinach. But the difference it makes when you're operating from a place, where you're tuned in to. The most beautiful, delicious music and how life starts to occur and show up based on the signals that you're putting out there, And I think amazing mystical things. can start to happen. like miracles. And at the same time, it really just started when you started to feel your own wholeness. And when you started to enjoy your own company, and when you started to feel the magic and the love that's innately you, the once in a universe you, and then yeah, things start to just, appear that, weren't going to happen anyway, unless we took the time to actually look at like, What is the vibe I'm putting out there? what is the music? What is the vibration? Because it's being felt. So thank you for, working with people to reconstitute themselves and heal themselves so that they can do that, so that we can all, like, individually, and as a community, like, your patients, so that they can pour more love into the world, so that they can pour more of those good vibes, to themselves and to the people in their lives. And I just think, the fact that you work, I guess one on one for the most part. it's interesting because I know, it's this idea that like, I want to save the world. Like I want to feed everybody and I want to save the world. And I'm like, how do we save the planet? But I really do think that it's about like one person. It's about like, when you save when you help, when you love on one person, that's how you change the world. It's one person at a time. It's just one person at a time.

Dusty:

Yeah, making eye contact, smiling, saying hello to somebody on the street, you have no idea what then that person is going to go do, versus if you had never made eye contact. a ripple effect one way or the other.

Robyn Cohen:

And you can't know your legacy, which is why it makes a difference to start to curate. Well, what am I going to leave people with? What am I going to leave them with? So I'm so lucky that we get to leave the people, the listeners with you, Dusty. This is, so magical. And, let's do a Sleepover party podcasting event in California and come over and I will sing you to sleep. It's, it's gonna happen. I remember I think it would be, um, there is a castle on a cloud. We would sing on my own from Les Miserables. On my

Dusty:

own.

Robyn Cohen:

We didn't even know what we were singing about, like this woman in a war torn country, and she's about to be killed in the French Revolution, and we would just be singing, and it would just lull us to sleep, you know, but, uh, uh, thank you. Thank you so much for this time and this cyberspace. how, how can people find you or get into your world or, um, book a session? a place where people can go to stay in touch?

Dusty:

my work website, I'm only licensed in Maryland, so I cannot see people out of state, but the. The work website is MoCoCounseling, mococounseling.com. and, and I post daily outfits on RetailRelated RetailRelated, is the Instagram site. Yes. It was my sister and I that originally did a lot of the stuff together, hence the Retail Related, but I sort of slowly took over. because I'm much more of a clothing whore than she is apparently. Uh, but yeah, the two places you can find me Retail Related and MoCoCounseling. com.

Robyn Cohen:

Amazing. Well, we will find you there. I can't wait. your whole family. Tanya and I used to go to ballet classes together, Maryland Ballet. I'm going to have to have her on the podcast too at some point. but, uh, this was just so, yummy. Thank you, Dusty. This is like, this is literally like, it's a dream come true. To just, you know, to, be with you, to sit with you and to connect. And, um, it feels like it's just always been that way. It is now, and it will always be with you. So thank you for your friendship. I feel like I'm going to hug my computer. I think my computer probably thinks I'm in a relationship with it. Cause I'm like, always, like, I'm always hugging my computer. And I think this AI companion is like, we're in a relationship. Careful. Right. Be careful. I'll take that advice. Thank you. Um, okay. Well, thank you so much. Such a joy. You're such a treasure and, um, more to come, more to come. Thank you.

Dusty:

Okay. Okay. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Robyn Cohen:

Ah, I got

Dusty:

it.

Robyn Cohen:

Well, thank you, beloved community, for joining my childhood bestie Dusty and me on this fascinating dream come true of a conversation of reconnection and reunion. What a healing gift to spend time in space With the forever fabulous Dusty Persels. She's such an amazing spirit. I'm just knocked back by how important and how meaningful childhood friendships are, as well as by the beauty of transformation and positive evolution that can transpire over time. So let's keep the energy from today's episode alive and growing. If you're enjoying the juice from these conversations, subscribe and leave a review. Turns out reviews, on Apple podcasts, are the golden ticket to reaching more awesome people like yourself. to further make the world a better place for all of us. Speaking of the magically delicious. my online and in person acting classes are open and ready for you to jump in. Tuesdays, you can forge ahead in your purpose, on purpose, creating a life you love and meeting some incredible collaborative comrades along the way I also work with people one on one. Anyone and everyone excited to grow and develop is welcome. Until next time. let's keep the good vibes rolling. Let's go and let's flow with compassion, letting go of our resistance through breath and grounding and working with good therapists. and remember, roller coasters were designed to be a total blast, so let's enjoy the ride. Much love and cannot wait to see you next time. All the best.