.png)
Day24: Where Healthcare Meets Exponential Innovation
Day24: Where Healthcare Meets Exponential Innovation is a podcast that delves into the transformative moment in healthcare, represented by a metaphor on the 24th day of peaceful walks at Radnor Lake in Nashville.
Imagine Radnor Lake, an eighty-five square acre lake, tranquil and vast, where lily pads begin to grow, each only one square inch in size. On the first day, there’s just one lily pad, seemingly insignificant on such a large body of water. But each day, the lily pads double, steadily covering more of the lake’s surface. By Day 24, the pads have grown to cover just 1% of the lake—a small, but noticeable change that hints at the scale of what’s to come. However, in the next few days, the exponential growth becomes dramatic. By Day 30, Radnor Lake is completely covered, having surged from 1% to full coverage in a relatively short period.
This exponential growth, deceptively slow at first, reaches a tipping point where it accelerates rapidly, a powerful analogy for the healthcare innovations emerging today. Just as Radnor Lake’s transformation seemed gradual until the final days, so too does the impact of biotechnology, AI, genomic sequencing, device platforms, emerging datasets, and the invention of other transformative technologies, which, though seemingly incremental, are now poised to reshape the healthcare landscape at a pace few can anticipate, yet alone understand.
Each episode will explore how these exponential innovations are addressing urgent healthcare challenges—from rising costs and limited access to workforce shortages and an aging population. Host Eric Thrailkill, a longtime leader in healthcare technology and innovation, brings his wealth of knowledge and insight to guide conversations on these pivotal developments.
As these innovations continue to scale and accelerate, "Day24" brings together experts who are not only shaping the future of healthcare but are also focused on deploying solutions that make a tangible impact. Guests from diverse fields will share their perspectives on how we can harness the rapid pace of change to ensure these advancements are both effective and sustainable. They’ll discuss the complexities of implementing new technologies within existing healthcare systems, regulatory impacts, transformative business models, and the importance of aligning innovation with real-world needs. Listeners will gain insight into the strategic, operational, and ethical considerations that come with exponential growth and the methods by which leaders are striving to measure success beyond traditional metrics, emphasizing improvements in patient outcomes and cost control.
"Day24" is not only about exploring innovation but also about defining what meaningful progress looks like in an industry facing seismic shifts. By emphasizing equal measures of health outcome improvement and cost containment, the podcast is committed to reshaping how success is defined in healthcare. Through compelling conversations, Eric and his guests will illuminate paths to scale these groundbreaking solutions, sharing how visionary ideas can transition from pilot projects to widespread practice. With "Day24," listeners are invited to join the journey at a time when exponential innovation is not just a concept but an active force reshaping healthcare for the better.
Please remember to rate and review this podcast, wherever you obtain your favorite podcasts, and thanks to all of you for tuning in.
Day24: Where Healthcare Meets Exponential Innovation
08 - On-Demand Support, On-Time Care: Jennifer Sargent of Pacify.
In this episode of Day24, host Eric Thrailkill welcomes Jennifer Sargent, CEO of Pacify, captured at ViVE in Nashville in February 2025.
Jennifer shares insights into the integration of technology and human-driven services, emphasizing Pacify's commitment to enhancing women's health and parental support. Discussing the intersection of technology with healthcare, Jennifer notes, "To really drive care meaningfully, you have to have both technology and people together. That's what really makes the impact."
The discussion covers her journey through the healthcare industry, her transition to Pacify, and the significant role of technology in advancing primary care and maternal support. She elaborates on the evolution of doula services, stating, "As Medicaid, as a leader and innovator in doula access... started requiring reimbursement for doula services, that really started to change the landscape of doula care."
Jennifer also touches on the challenges and opportunities within the doula and lactation consulting sectors, highlighting how Pacify's model supports both service providers and clients by merging technology with personalized care, ultimately striving to enhance the maternal experience and reduce healthcare disparities.
Please be sure to rate and review Day24: Where Healthcare Meets Exponential Innovation wherever you received your podcasts!
Jennifer, thanks for joining.
Jennifer Sargent:Thanks for having me.
Eric Thrailkill:We are here at five on day three or four, if you count. Sunday a little overnight. Snow has impacted the event a little bit, but gimme your perspective and maybe observations of of the event this year in Nashville.
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah, it's been really great to I think listen to folks talk about technology and how they're thinking about the intersection of technology very related relatable for pacify as we're thinking about the integration of. The intersection of technology and our, services driven by people, and how do you bring those two things together. And so I really enjoyed kind of hearing about other industries, primary care, et cetera, and how they're thinking about those things together,
Eric Thrailkill:the segments. Have you been around and just observed the various stages? And also I need to ask you, have you had a chance to explore Nashville outside of the Music City Center?
Jennifer Sargent:Not much. I did have a great dinner last night as a Minnesotan enjoyed the snow, but
Eric Thrailkill:yeah. That's fantastic. Let's start with a little bit of your background and a golden gopher, as you mentioned, from Minnesota with your MBA and then onto your professional career and maybe take us through Vera Home Health.
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah. Great. Go Health. Yeah, so I have been in healthcare my entire career. Fell into it by way of young people, often do in industries and really have been dedicated to staying in it.'cause it was important to me to be in a space where I could make a positive impact on society and people at large. And
good for you. There's,
Jennifer Sargent:there's never a shortage of, problems to solve in healthcare. That's true. So that's a great place to be. As I came up in my career I have actually had the opportunity to be at an organization that was all a people driven business. It was called plus one health management. Okay. And did onsite fitness center management Okay. For corporations in Minnesota. We were actually based in New York. Okay. But then we got acquired by United Health Group. So made my way back with that. And with that took a new role in Optum. And that was really at the time when it was. All technology. It was, big wellness portals, like we're gonna put technology out there to solve all the problems. And in that sort of space, that's when it became apparent to me that I think to really drive care meaningfully, you have to have both technology. And people together. And that's what really makes the impact.
Eric Thrailkill:The tech will never replace the human element that exactly is necessary, whether that's health and prevention and fitness or healthcare as we know it.
Jennifer Sargent:Exactly. So that led me to the opportunity at Vera Whole Health, which was an advanced primary care organization that was using technology alongside primary care clinics to really manage population and. Primarily the commercial space and was at that organization through the pandemic. Okay. And I think the pandemic taught all of us a lot about how to use technology and the role of virtual that it can play, that it can be impactful in certain situations. And helped us evolve how we thought about technology with care delivery from a primary care perspective. And then I got the opportunity to join Pacify and I think really, great opportunity for me in a couple ways. I think it, it combines that tech and people thing that I feel very passionate about and then just really feel passionate about being in the women's health space. My own personal journey in becoming a new parent. Okay, I'll age myself at the age of 40, so I was on the older side of things. And at that time I lived a lot of life and, thought I'd done a lot of hard things, but becoming a new parent was. Very rewarding, but also one of the hardest things that I've done,
Eric Thrailkill:Frankly, at any age. Yes.
Jennifer Sargent:And and I realized that I came into that experience from a very privileged position with a lot of resources that many, new parents or expected parents in the country don't have. And so I really just appreciated the opportunity to come to pacify and lead the business and really try to make an impact in the space.
Eric Thrailkill:Oh, that's great. And one, one question on Vera, were those sites affiliated with. Employers, is that how the model worked or was it
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah, it started affiliated with employers. Okay. But really did a great job of creating a near site network. Okay. So we'd have a clinic, dedicated to an employer, but then we'd build additional clinics in the. Kind of geographic area that we were serving. And then members could use any clinic in the network. And then through our time, we evolved the business a bit and did enter Medicare Advantage in partnership with the payer and did some of the Payvider clinics right, that, you're hearing about now and they're still doing that today. So really great experience to think about working across all different lines of business and delivering great care.
Eric Thrailkill:So you joined Pacify a little over two years ago. Give us a little of the origin story of Pacify.
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah. Pacify has been around for over 10 years. Started, the two founders started to really solve a need in the infant feeding space. Okay. And so they, saw this happening of new parents having infant feeding support needs at 2:00 AM and then. Being concerned about their infant and going to the emergency department to get help. And so they created this great model, which is still a big part of our business today. Think about it like Uber, like for lactation. Okay, so 24 7 on demand access to IB CLCs virtually, and. Really grew the business in a meaningful way focused on serving Medicaid, MCOs and public health organizations.
Eric Thrailkill:Okay. And impact measured in many different ways. I would assume. You might touch on that a little bit as well.
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah. We've seen with some of our clients case studies, at two and a half times. Greater chance for, breastfeeding, within six months of delivery
Eric Thrailkill:with that support.
Jennifer Sargent:With that support we've seen reduction in ED visits and things like that and just great member experience.
Right.
Jennifer Sargent:I, my own experience when when that baby isn't eating at 2:00 AM that's a, that's an emotional and hard thing, and so just, providing that great meaningful experience for the member.
Eric Thrailkill:Yeah, that's fantastic. And. The pacify has grown since then.
Jennifer Sargent:We have, so right before I joined Pacify, launched the Virtual Doula Network as well, that came from a request from one of our Medicaid customers as we, as they were seeing the impact that doulas can have and the increased demand for access for that service. And then since I've joined, we've really taken a focus on how do we create a tech enabled doula led solution that gets a member matched with a doula as early as possible in their perinatal journey. Provide both virtual and in-person care, and then make sure we can get them additional support through things like lactation consultant
Eric Thrailkill:support. Yeah and take us through the. Your own perspective on the history? There's certainly been an increase in the value proposition. I think is a good one and has been demonstrated in many different geographic areas of doulas in the us.
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah, I think doulas have been around for a long time. And I think in the last five-ish years there's been some really great research that shows the impact that doulas can have
Eric Thrailkill:and mostly access through personal relationships. Y right? Is that right? Yeah.
Jennifer Sargent:Historically, it was a lot of just out ofp pocket pay. I know somebody, or I used a doula. This doula was great, you should use them. And I think as Medicaid, as a leader and innovator. In doula access Medicaid state started, requiring reimbursement for doula services and that really started to change the landscape of doula care and led to some great research on the outcomes that doulas can provide and support in that perinatal journey. And, since then we've seen more and more. Medicaid states get on board with doulas being a part of the reimbursable model, and now we're seeing commercial plans start to go down that path, employers start to go down that path.
Eric Thrailkill:Interesting. Yeah. So just a
Jennifer Sargent:really great, like increase in, in demand for the service.
Eric Thrailkill:Do we have enough qualified, certified doulas and maybe talk a little bit about that, the certification or the licensure process.
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah, it's a great question. I think I'd start there with. As doula demand has increased. So has doula burnout. Yeah.
Yeah.
Jennifer Sargent:I mean it's and doulas I think, want to be able to support all sorts of populations, but they're typically don't have the administrative support to do things like bill claims or get credentialed, nor probably do they want to. Like they just wanna provide great care. So as we think about, our model, we always look at. Our key stakeholders and are we driving value for them? And doulas are, and lactation consultants are a key stakeholder for us. So we really focus on how can we not just support existing doulas by bringing them into the pacify network and supporting them and serving members and taking on that administrative burden. But then how do we help with workforce development? Because I do think like in lots of other spaces in healthcare, behavioral health, et cetera, like we're gonna have a supply issue. So we do things like scholarship programs in key markets. We have a mentorship program for newly trained doulas that wanna come in and get experience with, more experienced doulas and get live birth experience. And just really supporting, not just existing doulas, but how do we get more
Eric Thrailkill:doulas? Oh, that's great. I'd imagine that layer of administrative support and just overall support on the tech side would be a huge benefit. And the avoidance of all that messy administrative right. 25% of our US healthcare spend, right? That is involved in that. Early on the before Medicaid, these were mostly private pay? Or when did Medicaid in the last four or five years?
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah. I'm not exactly sure which state when the first state came out with reimbursement, but it's not been, it's been pretty recent, right? Recent. And so before that, doula was primarily private pay
Eric Thrailkill:and recent, maybe for a couple of reasons, maybe the lack of evidence and financial modeling that. Made that an impact as well as the experience, et cetera. And now increasing evidence and demonstration that the model is effective and working
Jennifer Sargent:correct? Yeah. Research shows us that with doula support, there can be an impact of up to 60% reduction in c-section rates. 68% lower risk for postpartum complications. So just, really great, just better birth experience. And I think as we're also facing maternity care deserts, 35% of counties in the United States are considered a maternity care desert. That's where the technology can really support by us being able to provide virtual support anywhere.
Eric Thrailkill:And I imagine the. The technology assist. Talk a little bit about the match experience as well. Because that in a personal reference world. Matches are difficult. It may be very challenging, but leveraging the tech to really find the match between the mom and the doula.
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah. It's such an important part of the journey. You think about welcoming a doula into your pregnancy and birth experience is very intimate. Trust and a lot of trust, and we wanna make sure that relationship can be built. So we leverage technology in a few ways. First, it tells us about the member. If they're coming in through one of our payer partnerships, what they have available for them, that's reimbursable versus out of pocket, where do they live? Like that sort of basic information. And then we gather information from the member through a. Questionnaire in the technology platform just to get a sense of who might be an appropriate match for culturally sensitive care, what kind of, first birth, second birth, high risk, et cetera. We take that information and then we map match them with the right doula to meet their needs. And that's a people process today. So combining the technology and people process, as you can imagine, we have to think about capacity and how many bursts per month, et cetera. But we use that. Intake process to really learn about the member and make sure we can make a great match.
Eric Thrailkill:And the geographic support, or maybe some markets that, that you can talk about with pacify.
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah. So we provide virtual services across the country and then we have some key markets where we're doing both virtual and in person. Okay. Yeah, so think about. Virtual first for prenatal and postpartum, but then we're also able to offer that in-person labor and delivery support. Okay. In markets like Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin soon to be in Florida and South Carolina and growing across the country. And I think that's a great model that helps us get that care across the country. But again, like we can use virtual now, right? Where we don't have in person and drive really great outcomes.
Eric Thrailkill:And then maybe talk a little bit about postpartum and we'll get into the transaction with Mandy, major and major care.
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah. The postpartum experience is so important. I think, as a, especially a first time parent, there's so much excitement and focus on the pregnancy and the birth, and then you get home and now you have this. Baby. You don't know what you're supposed to be doing. I
Eric Thrailkill:totally remember that 32 years ago. But remember it like it's yesterday, right? Yes.
Jennifer Sargent:Yes. It's such an important period and we know from a maternal mortality perspective, 50 to 60% of deaths actually happen postpartum. So it's such an important part of the journey for. Physical, emotional support for that new parent and the birth partner as well as the baby. And so doulas can play a really critical role. They're oftentimes, one of the first people to speak with a new parent post birth, even before they go in for their first, provider visit. And can really assess how is that new parent doing? Look for depression and anxiety. Signs to get them connected if they need help. Just be there to support. Oftentimes it's really impactful for them to have somebody to re-experience their birth and, digest that and can just be really great support. I just listen.
Eric Thrailkill:No, I could see where significant impact there. So Mandy is a dear friend and the company Major Care and Pacify came together just in the last year. Talk a little bit about that and what you're excited about from major care.
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah. I got the opportunity to meet Mandy right around a year ago last January of last year, and was just really impressed with the company that she built. I think Mandy as a founder had such a great personal story and such great passion for the support that doulas can provide, particularly focused on that. On the postpartum period. She was providing care all throughout the pregnancy journey with her doulas. But that, that really great passion. And I think Mandy as our chief experience officer just really brings that tremendous amount of ability to look across all of the member journey and make sure we're delivering great care. They had really thought out care pathways that we were able to pull into the pacify experience and be able to expand on that. And Mandy's been fantastic. She led our recent tech re-platform launch that just happened in the past four weeks. So we've been, congratulations. Yeah, we've been a little busy. How's that going? It's great. It's been really great. We were able just to, is
Eric Thrailkill:that sort of a big bang that you, it just upgraded the platform to the new platform and rolled it out
Jennifer Sargent:basically. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. So it's been good. And this. It's really added a lot of the features that are enabling us to have that thoughtful member journey and the matching process and to be able to scale quickly. So that's just been a great, and she's been fantastic as well as her doulas pulling into the pacify organization. Oh, that's great.
Eric Thrailkill:So a little bit on the tech platform. Is it? Leverage SMS for messaging or is it an app, a downloadable app, or how does one access it?
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah, it is a downloadable app. So then members go through the onboarding process and it allows us to pull any member in and figure out the right path for them, whether they have. Insurance coverage, whether they're gonna pay out of pocket, whether they're one of our public health clients, so we can get them in and then say, okay, great. Here's the right path for you. Do that onboarding process and then it has this member engagement engine built in. So push notifications, SMS email, and it'll really focus on how do we make sure. The member gets matched with a doula and then completes all of the visits that we think will drive the best outcomes as we're using that kind of marketing engine throughout the process.
Eric Thrailkill:Makes sense. And my guess is you use some motivational behavioral nudges along the journey as well. And you're getting good data. My guess is on that, on the eligibility and on the insurance side, is it. Do you interface with with the plans that cover the services?
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah, so we have built into the technology experience, automatic insurance verification. Okay. We can also do that on the back end, so we,
Eric Thrailkill:so if coverage is available Yes. Then an easier process. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, no. Fantastic. And then where do you see maybe use of generative AI and continuing to leverage the data? There's obviously at a show like Vibe, there's a lot of talk about what we've just observed in the last 27 months with generative ai. And it, I feel like it changes almost overnight every day with what's with what's possible. But this. A place that I've been focusing on is structured and unstructured data and doing more with unstructured data to enhance the experience. Et cetera.
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah. We're certainly, keeping our eyes on what's happening in ai. I think it's for us with a very, people driven business, it's figuring out. When do you want the real person, involved in the middle of it versus when can you use ai? And maybe
Eric Thrailkill:when they can be supported or augmented with
Jennifer Sargent:Right.
Eric Thrailkill:Leveraging that.
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah. We do have through a partner, we're doing AI phone outreach. Okay. As a part of enrollment engagement efforts. And that's. Proven to be very effective that partner is in power health. So again, we're figuring out where can it fit within the journey and, provide impact without getting in the way of that people relationship. It's
Eric Thrailkill:a good place to be. And it changes so fast and frankly I think the tech gets a little bit better every day as well, you're in a, you seem to be in a great spot there. Moving forward, let's talk about maybe the next three to five years. First tell us a little bit about coverage by states via Medicaid. At one time, if I remember the numbers correctly, maybe up to 35 or so states had coverage for. Doula services and postpartum services.
Jennifer Sargent:Yep. And it's growing. Okay. Yep. We, a lot of, I think most states either have coverage today or they have something in process, a bill, something happening to, to provide coverage. So
Eric Thrailkill:clear universal evidence that this is a good model that can impact. The end and parent in many ways. Yes.
Jennifer Sargent:I think what we're also seeing now is early states that were great innovators and adopted this benefit came in with two low reimbursement rates and so we're starting to see some of that be right size. That's obviously really important to make sure that doulas can. Earn a good living wage providing services in the Medicaid population. And I think states are learning about structure. Each state has, somewhat different amount of visits that they offer. Some states are allowing virtual care for prenatal, postpartum, some are not. So I think we'll start to see. A more, coalescing around a standard in the next, couple years across the states. But just great to see that expanded coverage.
Eric Thrailkill:Do you see any in the business model opportunities for risk sharing or participation in the quality that's been demonstrated?
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah, absolutely. I have spent time in the. Value-based. I always air quote that on purpose because it can mean lots of different things. Depending, we have one payer relationship where we have both upside and downside incentives. Okay. Based on quality metrics. Okay. And things like ed avoidance. And so I think where we will be challenged is doulas and lactation consultants can impact, but, doulas particularly are nonclinical. And we can't control the providers and what they're recommending. So if you think about the challenge of being in a risk relationship, but one of the things that we are trying really hard to do is develop relationships with providers in our key markets. It's been very important to us as an organization that our service does not add fragmentation. So we focused on services that typically aren't provided through a provider relationship. That's
Eric Thrailkill:a great way to think about it. What we don't want to do is introduce increasing amounts of. Fragmented services that are provided.
Jennifer Sargent:Absolutely.
Eric Thrailkill:So you're focused on consolidating that. No, I like that a lot. And then maybe touch on we're early in 2025 and what 25 looks like and then maybe a little bit beyond.
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah, great question. For us, 2025 as we've just launched our tech platform and some new services heavily focused on executing on our kind of. Proven business and scaling it into new markets, really driving patient volume. Working to develop those provider relationships like I spoke about in those key markets. That's a heavy focus for us from like an operational and growth perspective. We are also continuing to look for more commercial plans to cover doulas. We have a big push in working with those organizations to figure out how they can roll out the benefit. And then I think past, late later, 20 25, 20 26, it'll be looking at what additional products either through. Building ourselves or partnering, could we add onto our model that sticks with that? Like we don't wanna add fragmentation, we wanna add value. I think there's lots of different areas that, you know, because we have that member engaged with the doula could pull them into other services that could provide value.
Eric Thrailkill:That's great. And then how do you measure the patient experience?
Jennifer Sargent:Yeah really great question. So I think we look at it a few ways. So first and with the new tech platform, we'll be able to do this more meaningfully, just watching how the member engages through the journey. Are they engaging in the right things? Where are they dropping off? How can we,
Eric Thrailkill:and you're learning from that and learning a
Jennifer Sargent:ton from that. How can we make that experience better? And then we're also asking the member, how was your experience? We. Collect self-reported information from them on how their birth went, et cetera, and then work with our payer partners to then look at claims cost outcomes, et cetera, so that we can have a big picture of the impact that we're making, both for the member as well as for the customer, which is typically a payer in this. Example.
Eric Thrailkill:Got it. Fantastic. And one, one last question. I've been thinking a lot and really relying on the input from other healthcare leaders. So thanks for for taking this question. About a phrase that I heard. Speed matters more, scale matters less and innovation matters most in the world in which we're living in. Where this. World of existing healthcare meets exponential innovation and new things are happening every day. It's difficult for all of us to comprehend the changes that are occurring. How do you think about
Jennifer Sargent:that? Yeah, such a great question. Pacify is at such an interesting juncture. We've been around for 10 years, so we're, past the startup phase, right? We've got a lot of proven models that we are working to scale. But we are balancing that with innovation. I'll use the doula program as an example. We've pivoted pretty quickly over the past two years in how we're delivering the doula care. Three years ago we weren't billing claims for that service. Now we are, introduced the new tech platform. And so I think based on our. Kind of size. We have the, a right balance of the ability to scale, but also really focus on innovation and how do we, tweak our business model as we see new things coming up and we're paying close attention to, the new innovative models and thinking about how we might incorporate them into ours.
Eric Thrailkill:That's great. You've been generous with your time. I know timing is a factor here as you're on your way outta Nashville. And thanks for for being here today Of course and helping us understand the story of pacify. Great. Thank you for having me.
Jennifer Sargent:Thanks.
