Angela Patton: Zenith K9 Resorts Las Vegas Neveda

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Welcome back, everybody, to the show. I am your host, Joe. We talk everything, dog, from people all over the world. I'm glad everybody's back. Angela, you uh you're here with the country boy. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yes, you know, I'm good, I'm good. I can't ever complain. How are you?

SPEAKER_03 1:23

I'm I'm in it to win it as always.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

There we go.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um, my co-producer, Douglas Kopich. I know you've been talking to him, and he just been Joe, Joe, check out Angela, check out Angela, check out Angela. And so I seen some clips and everything, and I'm like, okay, and you and you explain things. You should have been a teacher. Well, maybe you are a teacher.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

It's funny. Um, one for one year I was a math and literacy coach for uh kindergarten and first grade.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Okay, then after those bad little kids did what they did, and I was like, you know what? I can't deal with the snot and doggers. I just can't do it.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

I feel you, yeah, I feel you. Well, um, so where are you originally from?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

I'm originally from Los Angeles, California.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

LA is in the house.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

LA. Why do we need a lot of I'm currently in Las Vegas though, you know, dealing with the heat fighting this heat wave we have going on?

SPEAKER_03 2:23

How how uh high is the heat there right now?

SPEAKER_01 2:25

It was 114 today.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

It's 114 in Arkansas just the other day. It's crazy. Yeah. So dog training. Um, that's your passion, that's your way of life. Um, I asked you who your mentor was who got you started. Who was that?

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Uh the late great OJ Knighton. That was that was my mentor. Um, more like a father figure. I started with him when I was 13. Oh wow, yeah, yeah. You know, this is I was kind of blessed to just be driving by with my parents. Um, I'm driving down and we call it up on the hill, right?

SPEAKER_04 3:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

And I'm begging, I'm like, Oh, please, there's this guy there, he's training dogs, just please stop. And I parents stop. And um, we get out the car, and my dad's like, All right, well, go introduce yourself then.

SPEAKER_05 3:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

And you know, I walk up to them, I introduce myself, and he goes, Okay, well, if you're serious about dogs, you'll be here next uh tomorrow, which was Sunday. Yeah, and I was like, Okay, I'll I'll be here, not a problem at all. And I was there every Saturday and Sunday, and the rest of every day until um until my late 20s, really, really, yeah, yeah. Dog training, that's a that's a weekend thing, all days on the weekends, all days on the weekends, and it just kind of slowly evolved into him saying, Hey, do you want a job?

SPEAKER_03 3:53

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Okay, I'm just like, all right, let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 3:56

Right, right. So, who are some of the most popular people that come from Mr. OJ uh under his tutelage?

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Oscar Mora would be probably the most popular person that comes from him. Um, David Wright is probably my favorite dog trainer, but um, I don't think he's as popular, but David's probably one of my favorite people in the world. I call David, he's like my other brother, right?

SPEAKER_06 4:26

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

So and it's funny because a lot of the times with with OJ, I we we came up together, Oscar, David, myself, all of us were around at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Oh, okay, nice, nice. Yeah, that's uh uh apprenticeship. I don't know if if that if that happens a lot uh right now. I've I finally got myself lucky. I I found a good trainer. You know what I noticed? I was talking to a guy the other day, and uh, and I was trying to, you know, I'm trying to, you know, I try to deal with the elite trainers, and being I live in the woods basically, in uh in the middle of the country in Arkansas, it's hard. And so I was I was talking to a guy that he breeds snauser named Garrett Ferguson, right? He said, bro, two or three hours drive is the norm.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Absolutely, absolutely it's funny because um you talk to what I call a normal person, a person who's not into dogs, and they're like people who live here in Vegas. Um, and it's funny because I live in North Las Vegas, so I'm all the way on the north side, and then Henderson's all the way on the south side, and it's about a 30-minute drive. So to me, being from Los Angeles, it's not that big of a deal. But people who are in Vegas, they're like, Oh, I can't drive 30 minutes, right? But then you get into dog sports, and I have people who come from Arizona to join fight night, and then I have clients who live all the way in San Diego, right? Drive every summer and drop their dogs off for remedial training.

SPEAKER_03 6:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I I even drive almost an hour for my dog food. Yeah, I I drive an hour for a vet. I mean, this is kind of the lifestyle of dog people, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Right, right, because my vet's in Henderson, so I drive that half hour to Henderson, and people are like, Oh, you're crazy. But you know, it's little suburbs in Las Vegas, and every suburb has their own little kind of community, and no one travels outside of that community. But being in a dog-driven mindset, I'm like, whatever's best for my dog.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

That's right, that's right. Um, so you got your mentorship from uh Mr. OJ and started working for him. How how long did that that relationship as far as working for him uh before you split off on your own?

SPEAKER_01 6:51

No, I worked for him um well into my late 20s. Okay, I moved to Vegas when I was 27. Um that's when I officially split from OJ.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

Oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Okay, okay, cool, cool. What what what is something about Mr. OJ that's you you don't see a a lot today for his teachers?

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Oh, um, he didn't sugarcoat anything, yeah, not not a thing, and he didn't care about your feelings, and he didn't care how you felt about it. He always said, This is a democracy and this is not a dictatorship. If you have an opinion about something, you go somewhere and state that opinion, you don't come here with your thoughts and your feelings. Um and it was always his way or the highway, and either you made it or you didn't with him. And honestly, that's a lot of things that we don't see these days. You know, people are afraid to hurt people's feelings, yeah, and sometimes your feelings have to be hurt.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

That's just it does it because you got to build a discipline, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Exactly, and that's what he was all about discipline, because we did a lot of things, we worked with a lot of celebrities, we worked on a lot of movie sets, and anyone who came up with or through OJ knows that, you know, you're going on the movie set, and there's a certain decorum you had to have about yourself, and if you didn't have that decorum, you are never going back on set.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

So that yeah, that is another that is a chapter that you I don't know if you're still doing it, but training dog for movies. What kind of movies were you doing? Any famous ones or ones we probably know about?

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Um, so back in the early 2000s, I think any movie that had a dog with someone biting something OJ was involved in.

SPEAKER_06 8:38

Oh, gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Personally, I was on set for the first and second Resident Evil.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Yeah, um, there's this movie called The Breed that I was um I had to stunt double a little bit for. Um there's a lot hotel for dogs. Um, we did this other movie called The Fence Walker. Um then there there's it's funny because I had some downtime last year and I was re-watching True Blood, and I looked in the background. I said there was a dog fighting scene. I said, Is that OJ? I had forgotten we did True Blood. Right. We did uh Bones. Okay, yeah. Bones um with Caesar Milan was on there. Um, all those dogs that Caesar Milan was training in bones, those were our dogs.

SPEAKER_04 9:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Okay, you know, OJ was always like, we gotta have two of everything. If I have one, you have one.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. The the culture of LA, yeah, you have those type of opportunities, being that it's so much filmmaking up there, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Yes, tons of it, tons of it. Um, I mean, the last movie I was a part of with him was um Django Unchained.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

Oh, really? Oh, Django. That's a wild movie.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Yeah, John Wick, that John Wick effect. Unfortunately, that was OJ.

SPEAKER_03 10:07

Oh, really? Okay, okay. Dang, Mr. OJ wasn't playing around, was he?

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Not at all.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so um beside beside we talking about movies. Uh, what what kind of movies do you like? Do you have time to watch TV? Because I don't.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Not really. No, not my time is is spent feeding dogs.

SPEAKER_03 10:31

Right, yeah. I don't have time to do any, yeah, any sitting in front of a television. And if I do, it's maybe on a late Saturday night, and I'm gonna watch some boxing. I love boxing. Yeah, so yeah. Um so Zenith K9 Resort.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Resort.

SPEAKER_03 10:51

I saw I saw a review of your place, and that was that would that was nice. That was that was incredible. I appreciate that. That's a that's a heck of a spot you've got there, young lady. I appreciate that. Uh yeah, man. I was like, whoo! So so what all do you do there?

SPEAKER_01 11:11

What did I mean the what don't we do?

SPEAKER_03 11:14

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

So we do grooming, dog training, boarding, daycare, um, solo daycare. Um, we have our bike nights there. We rent spots out to other trainers who need some refuge from the heat.

SPEAKER_04 11:28

Oh, gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

We're we're in almost 9,000 square feet.

SPEAKER_04 11:32

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Yeah, so we have a lot of space to do a lot of different things. Um by day operates as a normal um doggy daycare. I wouldn't necessarily say normal because, from a dog trainer point of view, doggy daycare is the worst thing you can do for your dog. Why? Well, it creates an obsession, right? A dog feels like he's entitled to go play with other dogs, or it creates misbehaviors that we have to train out of another dog, right? So a lot of that hyperactivity, a lot of that um obsession about other dogs that you see from like the doodles and things like that, that's created from dog parks and doggy daycare. It's that constant need for stimulation, that constant need for running and not being supervised, not having um rules, boundaries, and restrictions that you get a lot of behavioral issues. So my dog daycare runs a lot differently. Um, instead of having dogs free play all day, we do um break dogs down into age, play style, um, size, and temperament. So that way we don't get a lot of the same conflicts. And then we have 30-minute set segments. We run dogs for 30 minutes, they're allowed to play for 30 minutes, and then they go up, and then we run the next set of dogs, and we continue that path until we get back to that first step.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

Oh, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, okay. So, huh, that's interesting. I know I I had boarded my dog one time. Um, this was years ago, one of my oldest females, and uh, I told this story before, but the guy he trained her, and so I said, Can you keep her where I go out of town? So he's like, Yeah, bring it through. And you know, so I got corsos, of course, and um she's about a year and a half or so, and you know, big dog, and I don't take my dog to dog parts. I was always told not to, yeah, because we yeah, this is like the rule don't take your dog to dog parts. So I take I take her to get boarded by this guy for a day or two, and when I got there, it was just a wide open house of dogs, and I'm like, What do you want me to do with her? He said, just let her go. And I'm like, uh-uh, I just didn't, I just didn't trust that that you know, I'm not it just you don't do you do it like that? Because yeah, that really scared the hell out of me. Even when I left, I called back about 10 minutes later.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Everything I wrap, everything okay, yeah, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

I was like, he he told me, well, they'll put her in a place, and I'm like, man, no, yeah, and you know, if you have a nice course, or your course just shouldn't take that, right? Right. That's what that's why I was kind of like, you know, are you sure about that?

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Right. No, no. So I don't allow a new dog to go directly into a play group. Um start them off slowly. So what I do is I have a tester dog, and usually the tester dog is either a dog that's been with me for a long time or my personal dog. Um, and so that way I know that their temperament's balanced. And I don't let any of my other trainers or daycare attendants do the temperament testing because we have two different types of daycare. We they can either play solo or they can play in the group.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

So we don't turn around away any dogs just because they can't play with the group, right? Um, and if they pass that test with the one dog, we introduce another dog and then another. So that way it's a slow introduction and make sure that every dog in that group's cohesive. Otherwise, you know, we get we get fights. You know, there's a uh dog daycare not too far from me that is in the process of shutting down because they had three dogs, three separate events, three weeks in a row. Whoo, all dog fights, three dogs dead.

SPEAKER_03 15:31

Whoa, oh, yeah, that's yeah, that'll do it. That'll do it. Yeah, dang, yeah. You got to be careful.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Um, yeah, I don't ever want to make that phone call, you know, that somebody's dog has died in my care. And I've I've been professionally training for 27 years, and I'm blessed enough to say that I have never had an incident. And I never want one.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

No, no, we're gonna knock on a little. Yeah, we don't, we definitely don't want that. Um, so I'm interested in some of the stuff you're saying, and the one thing about you is please, y'all, don't get offended. What I'm about to say, but we do a lot of protection dog talk on this channel and and different things like that, and it'd be like like but I noticed that you kind of like yeah, you you you you this whole spectrum, you know what I mean? So, like um what kind of dogs do you see? I'm I know you see a variance of dogs, but what are some uh other hot dogs you you see, not for his temperament, but uh popular dogs you see in now that frequently in your place?

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Corses, corsets corsals are the I don't know why. Um everybody wants a big ass corsals.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I already knew it. Uh, you know, that sucker went to uh um it's the number two Google dog, yes, and it's a number 11 in the AKC right now.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Yes, that's like and it's the number 10 as far as the AKC rating ratings go for the most wanted dog.

SPEAKER_03 17:10

Yeah, it's it's getting crazy. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Okay, do you know how much dog food y'all gotta feed these corsals?

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Oh, yeah, yeah. I I got a I got a hefty dog food bill. Um let me ask you this. You know, um, I don't shy away from when I ask people when I have people on here, I ask them the good, the bad, and the ugly about each breed they they uh that we cover. Um corsos, be honest. I'm a corso breeder. Tell me the good, the bad, and ugly as you see as a trainer.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

You know what's funny is that you know Oscar Morris started off as a corsal guy.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

Oh, yeah, of sure, of course.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

David Wright started off as a corsal guy, yeah. So I've seen corsals for 20 plus years, and the way the breed has changed in 20 years is it's like night and day is astronomical. Um, you see a corsal now, and there's these these big, giant, intimidating looking dogs. Um, and a matter of fact, I have one coming in for a board and train starting in August, and she's this big, nice looking dog. And I'm a fan of large dogs, I I love a big looking dog, but she's a big looking dog, and as soon as I stepped into the room, she peeped. Whoa, yeah, I'm like, yeah, that's a corsal.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

Yeah, yeah, that uh yeah, we got major temperament problems in the breed, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Yes, and then if you look at the description of the breed and what they're supposed to do, how many of those corsals can actually do the job that they were bred to do, that they were originally meant to do? And it's very far and in between. Yeah, in the last 10 years, I've seen maybe one. Yeah, that's that's you know, if you do some nice editing on these videos of these corsals doing protection work, and then they bring them in, and I'm like, okay, well, we'll tell him to watch, let's see what he's got. And nah, I don't think I've seen a nice corsal in 10 years, and that's a dog that I got from Oscar for a client.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

Right, yeah, yeah. They bagging up, they they pee in, yeah, yeah, they side eyeing you, right there. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I had a horrible experience with one, and uh, and I'm glad I did. I paid that money, I paid the most money for the shittiest corso I ever bought. Uh the dude taking me through a lot of games buying the dog, and and I'm and I'm glad I'm glad I did it. He never think I'd be doing this podcast, but I never said anything about it. Because I just wouldn't, I wouldn't do that to it. But I do let people know, like, look, it is some it is, it's kind of it's kind of crazy out here. Um, but uh being that um being that you see so many of them, um bes besides uh the you know the skittishness you see in some of the lines, what other uh problems are you seeing with the owner and the corso?

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Oh, yeah, the the typical thing that they don't need to socialize their dogs, right? Um they don't need to expose their dogs because they want a personal protection dog or they want a guardian dog, and you know, the the old thing of no one touches my dog, and unfortunately, that sets them up for failure. The less your dog sees, the less confident your dog is, right? And that's just you know, you can't take a dog who's been in your backyard for two years and expect them to protect outside of your backyard, right?

SPEAKER_03 20:41

Right, yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Protect that yard, but anything outside of that yard is a big red flag for him, he doesn't want to go past it, and I'm all about overcoming obstacles and not creating obstacles, especially within that breed, right?

SPEAKER_03 20:56

So, you know, go ahead, yeah, yeah. So, as far as like uh, like I said, like I don't go to dog parks, but so what do you where do you suggest uh families take their course corsos for socialization?

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Um, well, I would suggest them take their corsal puppies, not Corsair, right? Um, so we're talking about anywhere between eight weeks and maybe 32 weeks. Um, and we just expose. I take my dogs to tractor supply, lows, Home Depot, Bass Pro Shop, um, the family nurseries anytime that my mom wants to go plant shopping. Now I'm like, I don't want to go plant shopping, but my dog needs to see some stuff.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

Yeah, just take them with you.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

I just take them with me. You know, any I tell everybody all the time anywhere that you can take a dog, take them.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Take them. Yeah, you may not want to go, but go.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

Yeah. What now back in the day, you know where I used to love to take them?

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Where's that?

SPEAKER_03 21:54

Truck stops.

unknown 21:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

Loud, but I walk them on the the outside. Not all up in there with the noise and different things, but yeah, so I I used to love to take them there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

That sounds like it's a great place to take a dog. It is a lot of exposure, a lot of noise, a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04 22:14

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

The feeling of going from like from the concrete to a rock to a different surface. That's perfect for a dog.

SPEAKER_04 22:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

You know, all it is is exposure. The more your dog overcomes, the more confident they are throughout their lifetime.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

Right now, my puppies, what I think I like about my puppies, I could set up, I can go somewhere, like they could be eight weeks, I can set them down, be a whole new vermin. They just coming with me. They ain't tripping.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

They yeah, but you know that's why you do it at eight weeks because they're like, all right, cool. The world is new, nothing scary.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Right, right, right. But you know, I mess with when I started, I started with some good breeders. I I had a cousin that's been in the breed since we was like what's we about 19 or 20. Yeah, so yeah, he he he knew and I I got set up right. So when I went outside of the when I went outside my circle, I went got burnt, you know what I mean? So yeah, you were like, wait a minute, yeah, not not paying attention like I need to be, but so let me let me get into something else, uh, because we finna go on a little loop. This is your first interview, so I gotta get to know you a little bit. So um, behavior modifications, probably another issue you see. What is a explain to me what a behavior modification is.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Yeah, so so what people think it is is where I take a dog that's completely aggressive and he's trying to kill me and rip my throat out, right? And then I make him into this nice sociable dog, and unfortunately, that's not the case. Um, behavioral modification is where you you're modifying the behavior of the dog to fit into a construct um that kind of conforms to what the dog can do realistically, right? And all that's to say is management and mitigation. We teach the dog what's okay behavior and what's not okay behavior, what's appropriate and what's not appropriate, and then we teach the owner how to manage and mitigate that behavior by not setting their dogs up for failure, by putting them back into those sort of same situations. Um, give me an example, Kevin. A lot of it's at home, right? So I'll give you an example. I had a samoyed, his he's actually boarding with me right now. We did a behavior modification, his name was Ghost. Um fit the groomer, fit the vet, fit the vet tech, fit the mom. Okay, yeah. So he you know, so he we've got a dog that's got a great a bite history. Came in. Um, he's a big fluffy white dog who doesn't love a big fluffy white dog, and he looks sweet because he doesn't show any signs of aggression, he doesn't show any forward or out relate signs of aggression. So my manager goes in there, she's taking potty breaks, she goes to loop and bit her. She comes back, she's like, That dog bit me. I was like, Oh, my fault. I put a red card up there. Red card means no one touches that dog but me. But you know, we we fall into the habit of only shepherds or bodies or chorus are aggressive. A Samoid cannot be aggressive because he's he's pretty and he's cute. Um, so I keep my B mods for six, seven, eight weeks. I don't put a timeline on how long I mitigate the behavior. And I I simply started with him being with me, me walking him back and forth. Um, I don't pet him, I don't talk to him, I don't do any of that other treat, I don't offer him treats. You just have to learn how to coexist with me. So after he learns to coexist with me, after he learns to come up, put his head down so I can loop him, we walk around. Then I start letting other people do the same thing. So that way he learns that this behavior gives him freedom. So no correction needed yet. But if all you do is come up, you put your head down so I can loop you, it gives you that freedom that you want. The next step with him was the grooming stuff. So we had to slowly because he's he's he's a small, so he has to get groomed, he has to be brushed, otherwise he's gonna mess up, right? So um, I muzzle conditioned him, and he wasn't a dog that was a fan of treats anyway. He wasn't, you know, a purely positive trainer, and I have my gripes about them. Load them up, tried to load them up with treats, and he would have never taken out of one of them.

SPEAKER_03 27:03

Now that's that's different. Muzzle trait, yeah, with without a treat. That's crazy. So go go go yeah, go ahead. Don't let me cut you off. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

No, no, you're good, you're good. I um so we're just we're going through the steps, you know. His whole thing was he liked to walk, so his reward for everything, okay, two minutes of brushing, perfect. Let's go on a walk. That was his reward for everything, right? So we mitigated the behavior by giving him what he wanted if he allowed me to do what I wanted. So now the dog comes in, he lets us brush them, he lets us bathe him, he lets us cut his nails, he lets us do all those things. Um, but the issue is now what? Not me anymore. The issue is at home, yeah. So it doesn't just stop with me training at my shop with my trainers, it has to continue throughout um with the with the parents, with the pet parents. That's what they like to be called now, right?

SPEAKER_04 27:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

So we have to teach the owner how to mitigate and be responsible and how to kind of advocate for their dog because this is a dog that no one should walk up on. So, you know, you've got to teach the owner, okay, say no, how to say no, when to say no, who to say no to, um, how to reward the dog, how to correct the dog. Because most people think that a dog is just a luxury item, that they get the dog, and a dog just blends perfectly into their life, and that that's not the case, right? Right, yeah, you know, some sometimes you have to make changes and adjustments for the dog that's in front of you, and that may not have been the dog that you wanted, but that's the dog you got, and now you're stuck with that dog, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:40

Right, yeah, yeah. Oh, you said something about uh, you know, teaching the owners, and so what what does your board and train look like?

SPEAKER_01 28:52

Um, so I have three different levels of board and train. I have my regular board and train, I've got my immersion program, which is kind of like dogs who are fearful, reactive, or over the top excited, and then I have my behavioral modification. Um, my board and trains run differently than other trainers because what other trainers will do is like, oh yeah, my board and train is three weeks long. My board and train is results-based. Once I get the result that I want from your dog, then we're done. So that could be three weeks or that could be six weeks. Once the dog gives me the result that I want, so that way I'm not putting a dog that's fearful into a timeline situation. You know, I don't I don't give dogs timelines, I don't give owners timelines. I'm like, all right, I will estimate that I need this amount of time with this dog. It could be sooner, it could be later, but I keep in contact. Um, for the most part, like any other board and train, um, sit, stay, place, come, walking on the leash. Um, not jumping on people, waiting at doors and boundaries. I go outside, I take all of my board and trains on field trips because obedience isn't just obedience in the shop, it has to be obedience in real life situations. Um, where I'm different is not just the um results based, but I bring the owner in.

SPEAKER_04 30:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

So me and the owner have meetups weekly. If they can't make the meetup because they're out of town, that's fine. Because my go-home session is usually an hour and a half to two hours, and then we have follow-up sessions after that. Because guess what's gonna happen? The dog's going to revert to that same behavior because the person's not changed, the dog has changed, but the person hasn't changed.

SPEAKER_03 30:43

Yeah, they're pretty resilient at knowing patterns and yeah, different things.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had I had a customer text me a couple of weeks ago. She hasn't she doesn't even have her dogs yet. They were we had two Frenchies fighting in the household. I'm like, oh, Frenchies are not gonna hurt each other much, but the issue is she's texting me and she's freaking out. She's like, Oh, I just I don't want them, and the issue is this, this. I was like, No, there's an issue in the household, but the issue is you, and that's that's a little OJ in me, too. And you know, I don't take a lot of mess from people, and I let people know very immediately I cut stuff off. I'm like, no, the issue is you in your household, and that's where I need to be. I need to be with you and these dogs in your house, otherwise, the behavior is going to continue.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

Exactly, yeah, yeah. Uh, a lot of times we don't hear what you just said that it's um a lot of time the owners uh are not doing their jobs, exactly, and they're not ready.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Um, you know, it's because we have an idea of a dog, and we all have an idea of what our perfect dog is, and then what happens is that we have this idea of our perfect dog, and then we go and get the opposite. So we have a person that has parties every day, right? They have strangers over the house all the time, they want their families involved in their lives. Um, grandma's over with all the grandkids every other week, and then you turn around and you get a presser, right? It's kind of like you just got a lab, like you get a dog that matches your lifestyle, not the dog that you've envisioned, right? Right, but unfortunately, we get what's popular.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

That's that's the thing, and going back to the corsos, you was talking about like CNMP and uh different things like that. And to be honest with you, most of us who uh breeding corsos uh on a higher level, it's not doing it just because right, we could I can guarantee you I could tell you the pedigree of that dog. Yeah, I could I could do it, yeah. I I could do it, but let me ask you this is why I'm saying that as a trainer, can you kind of dissect uh genetic fear versus uh uh just a lack of self-suitization or anything else? How do you know?

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Absolutely, um, it's it's a gift.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

Gotta read dogs, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

So it's a little bit of a gift and it's experience. So when you've been around for 20 some odd years, you start learning okay, this is a genetic issue, this is an issue that the dog is never truly gonna overcome. Um, so I'll give you an example. I had a rescuing, a three-legged dog, his name was Moose. Um, the owner was already a client of mine. So we had already done in-home privates with the dog. Um, and when she had just adopted it, it was a three-legged dog, scared of everything, scared of the shadow, scared of her, scared of her husband, like hovering around in the corner. So by the time they get to training, all I'm worried about in training is is kind of pulling the dog out of the shell, right? So they contact me two years later. The dog is now on like Prozac and everything else. And I'm like, Well, why did you do Prozac and not just contact me? And she's like, Well, I had mentioned to mentioned it to my veterinarian, and the vet recommended Prozac. So she had just had a baby, she's got this three-legged dog that's in the corner barking at shadows, wow, not eating his food, and refusing to go outside because right behind her house is a walking trail. So, what is Prozac? How much of this is being caused by Prozac? How many of this is being caused by genetic, and how much of this is being caused by the question mark of exposure? Because he's a rescue, so we don't know what he's been exposed to. Um, so it was easy for me to break as soon as he was weaned off of Prozac. It was easy to tell what was genetic and what was exposure. We knew that the loud noises and everything else that he was going through was exposure. We knew that his lack of food drive is genetic. Yeah, he looked like a Doverman mixed with like a some sighthound or something that you know, right? Sighthounds aren't big food dogs anyway, right? Um, then you start breaking it down, right? Okay, so how's the body tucked? How his overall um aesthetic look? Are his ears constantly back or are they forward? When he starts shaking, is he shaking off the stress and anxiety of everything, or is he shaking out of fear? And the only way we can do that is kind of immerse him into what makes him nervous, immerse him into what kind of triggers those behaviors to learn if they're a genetic issue or if they're a behavioral issue. Um, 95% of them was just a genetic nightmare, you know, and so I'm always in constant contact with my clients. So, you know, I was like, I'm telling her, I'm like, hey, so I've stopped the barking at the shadows, I've stopped the the constant in the corner shaking. Yeah, but he is never gonna be a dog that you can take out for a walk on a busy street, right? He's never gonna be a dog that you know, if some kids are trick-or-treating, put him in a kennel. If you have family over, put him in a kennel in a room, you know, he's never gonna be that dog genetically, and right, you know, luckily she's a client who completely understood, but sometimes clients and pet owners get into their mind of what they want rather than who their dog actually is, right?

SPEAKER_04 37:14

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

And kind of, you know, we have to understand that, like me, naturally, I'm a naturally confident person. There's not much of anything that's gonna make me nervous. Um, I have a friend who's a nervous wreck, and that's just naturally who she is. There's nothing that I can do to stop her from having anxiety, she's already on medication, right? Right, you know, so there's nothing that you can eat, she'll always overthink things. She will always be like, Okay, well, then what if this? And then what if I take my dog outside, and the other dog attacks him? I'm like, Well, you know, you prepare for that. She's like, Well, what if? And I'm like, Okay, your anxiety and the best of you, and that's how dogs are too. And it's kind of unfair to try and make a dog who naturally and genetically is a nervous wreck be a confident dog, right? Make them be the ver the best versions of themselves.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

That's right. Yeah, you made me think of he was talking to you guys. I was thinking about my oldest sister. She'd be like, Oh Lord, oh boy, do you see what happened to the dude?

SPEAKER_01 38:22

It's about to end. Yeah, we all know that person. Oh, the world is in his air.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love you, Terry.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

You gotta put that disclaimer out there.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

Yeah, I know, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Like, um, that's not who I am. Because they're always in denial.

SPEAKER_03 38:42

Now, now she she talked more like this. Boy, I heard you. You know, we for the south, you know, it's gonna be all extra, you know what I mean. So so let me ask you something. Was you when you was talking about the the rescue dogs? Um, do you get a pretty good influx of them? Because you got I I noticed in the media, uh, and I mean no harm nobody, but you know, like they don't shout, don't you get one for the readers? And and so it's a it's a right, right? So, and a lot of times, just to be honest, they in there for a reason.

SPEAKER_06 39:18

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 39:20

So, I mean, that's good for you, but um do you see more behavioral problems from them type of dogs? And would you say they are mixed dogs mostly, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Right, so I see a lot more behavioral issues from rescues than I do from purebred dogs.

SPEAKER_04 39:40

Okay, okay, right.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Um, usually when I get a dog from a breeder, all I'm doing is obedience, right? That's it, you know, um, or they're doing daycare or something like that. Very rarely do I get a dog from a good breeder that has behavioral issues, right? Right now, those the rescue community, those are the people who are spending the most money on behavioral mitigations, yeah. You know, so those are the people that are like, Oh, well, I adopted her and I feel so bad for her, and they're putting all of their feelings onto the dog.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

That's right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

And I'm like, we probably need to stop doing that. So it's it's the rescue community that's really taking up a good portion of my boarding trains. Um, or the doodles, yeah. Oh, yeah, we're seeing a lot of behavioral issues with doodles is because you know, people are getting the worst-behaved poodle and the worst-behaved golden retriever or whatever other breed, and mixing them together and thinking that it's gonna be a perfect family pet, right?

SPEAKER_03 40:47

Happens, yeah, breeding for the trend, exactly, yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. So which I guess you just said it's better to buy a purebreed dog.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

I am always a huge advocate for good breeders, yeah, not all breeders, but but good breeders, reputable breeders, um, breeders who are doing their due diligence in OFA testings, right?

SPEAKER_04 41:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

So I'm always going to be advocating for breeders as opposed to rescues.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I think they put uh uh guilt on people looking for for dogs. I just don't think it's I just don't think it's it's fair and or it's right, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

No, it absolutely is not fair to the dog, and it's not right to the families who are getting these dogs with the issues, right?

SPEAKER_03 41:36

So let me move on to another subject, and uh it's gonna be a little bit about Oscar Moore. Hey, Oscar, I know you're gonna watch this video. He's gonna watch it because somebody's gonna tell him because I'm gonna have this clipped. But me and I had Oscar on a show not too long ago, and it was with me, him, has, and another guy and e-collars. Oscar and has. I had to hire security for about two or three weeks after that video talking about an e-collar. I it just went crazy. It was so big of division on e-collars, and and I understand, like, well, you don't need it, but and these all these trainers just went crazy. My phone, I was getting talked to crazy. Why would you blue blue blue? So, but in your opinion, with this tools, slip collars, prong collars, and everything. Um, I know you're gonna start off with a flat, but when when would you present other tools? When would you see to do that?

SPEAKER_01 42:43

Um, I'll start off by saying this there's a there's a huge divide in the dog training community where it doesn't need to be. And most of the divide is unfortunately coming from the purely positive community. Um, where instead we should be looking at it like this any form of training that we put into our dog is going to ultimately save their lives. Yeah, trained dogs are less likely to be sent back to the breeder, trained dogs are less likely to be put into shelters, trained dogs are less likely to bite, and trained dogs are less likely to be euthanized. So, for this big uproar about training and how we train um from one part of the community, it's unfair to the dog that ultimately needed the training to save his life. Um, and I'll tell anyone, I I start training on a slip. Okay nine times out of ten, I I skip a flat collar, right? I start training on a slip. Um, I start training on a slip because I train in a facility, and I don't need a dog running off, um, backing out of a flat collar and and taking off on me.

SPEAKER_04 43:49

That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

So other than that, personally, I Don't need to use a tool to train a dog. But it's not me that I'm training for. I'm training for someone who has no idea, a 70-year-old lady who has a hundred-pound parcel.

SPEAKER_04 44:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Who needs a little bit more help than just a flat collar and some cookies.

SPEAKER_04 44:19

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

You know, so we're training for people who don't have the skill or understanding of how to. And realistically, they don't have the time to sit there and understand how to. They just need a result and they need a result quickly. Um, I'm training for the regular person who's going hiking and wants reliable e uh recall. So yeah, I'm going to use an e-collar. I don't teach the behavior through an e-collar, but I reinforce the behavior through an e-collar.

SPEAKER_04 44:49

Gotcha. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Any person who said that they're doing full off leash obedience with no e-collar is essentially putting that dog at risk. Because if there's no aversion, if there's no recourse for him running after a rabbit, you've just lost somebody's dog.

SPEAKER_03 45:06

Right, right. So did I read that you did uh some sports work, right? You did some sport events and then even some uh uh did you work do some law enforcement work with some dogs? What would what were you doing with the law enforcement?

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Um, so I did a lot of subcontracted stuff with LAPD LA sheriff's department with OJ. Um, I train currently my my Malinon PSA. I also competed in PSA. We I got all the way up to the twos.

SPEAKER_03 45:36

Oh, okay, good. Yeah, right. Dang, y'all doing everything over there one year.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

Movies, everything, movies, all kinds of stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_03 45:47

Yeah, okay, okay. So um, um, I was gonna okay. I would be remiss if I didn't ask you a little bit about protection work, right? Okay, and I think protection work, uh, you'll be better qualified to answer this than just me thinking what I know something. But is it more protection work going on for people owning those type of animals now versus when you started?

SPEAKER_01 46:20

No, no, I think it's the same. The the biggest difference is social media. Oh, social media makes it look like it's yeah, so social media makes it look like it's more popular, but um, I mean, I can think all the way back to the early 2000s, like 2005, when OJ would have 50, 60 dogs up there all doing protection work.

SPEAKER_03 46:40

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 46:41

Yeah, so um, I think it's just more seen now, you know. And just because it's more seen doesn't mean that people are participating more. Um, and even if people are participating more, then they're not necessarily doing it on a regular basis. The trials are still hard to get into. Um, PSA has absolutely grown in a sport since when I was competing in PSA. Um but I wouldn't necessarily say there are more people involved in protection sports than in the past. I think it's just more seen.

SPEAKER_03 47:20

Okay, that's what it is. Okay, so it's still a small niche uh group, and really what it is too like being that you know how you buy a car, then you start seeing the same car.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Yeah, and I get that every time, right?

SPEAKER_03 47:35

Yeah, and it's it's like it's it's like being that I cover trainers and everybody, and that's a more of a yeah, it's more of a trainer's thing, too.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

When it you start trainers challenge them themselves and each other, particularly when you start getting um competitive into the competitive levels of sport, um then you really, really start seeing it. Um, I mean, just like you said with the car, you know, um social media specifically targets what you see. So if if I click on agility dogs one time, then all of a sudden I see all these agility dogs, and I don't even train agility, right?

SPEAKER_04 48:14

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

I just thought that dog was nice. I liked what I saw, right? Right, you know, so then it makes you feel like everyone has a border collar and they're running agility, right?

SPEAKER_03 48:24

Right. So in the real world, when it does happen, um, do people think they can like, oh, I got uh this dog here, a corso, I'm gonna take it to Angela and she's gonna build a protection dog. How does it work? Or do you do you is it a process on you picking a dog for somebody? How does it normally work for you?

SPEAKER_01 48:46

People can absolutely come. I have bite night every Friday night. Okay, um, so we do bite nights Friday nights at six o'clock. Um, and if ego doesn't get in the way, because of course, you know, anything that deals with dogs has an ego, right? Um, doesn't get in the way, and then they come out and I evaluate their dogs, and the evaluation is free. The club isn't free, but your evaluation is free. And so I evaluate and I tell you where we go from there. If someone is serious about um getting a dog and pursuing sport work particularly, then I'll point them in the right direction. Um, but if they're wanting something more along personal protection lines, and I'll I'll give them a list of hey, this is a red flag for a reader. If they don't have dogs that are actively doing anything, you probably don't want it, right? You know, if you just see pictures of your dogs in the backyard or in a kennel, that's probably something to stay away from, right?

SPEAKER_03 49:44

Right. So, how important is uh do you focus in on stability when you work with protection dogs? What what what kind of dog does Angela like? What does it look like?

SPEAKER_01 49:58

Oh well, you you don't want to know. My so it's funny. Um what I like for my dogs is the complete opposite of what I would recommend for someone else. Okay, I personally like big hard dogs. Oh, yeah, right. I like out of control. Um, I like a dog that might redirect. Okay, so that that's I like over-the-top drives, and I like over-the-top hardness for me personally. Like my mouth in law right now is a little too soft for me. So, you know, he's got big hard bites, big drive, and then I'm like, no, he's like, Oh, god, I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_04 50:35

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

He's like, Oh, I'm sorry, I'll do anything for you. And for someone else, I'd be like, Yeah, this is a perfect dog for you. You want a dog that's a little handler sensitive. I don't care for handler sensitivities, right?

SPEAKER_04 50:49

Right.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

Um, I want a dog that's gonna be like, uh, I'll talk to you later. I'll be over here with the details decoy. Um, but usually if I'm I'm picking a dog for someone else, I want a dog that's a little bit more sensitive, um, a dog that's a little bit more sensible, and a dog that has um a little bit of slow, a lot of go, but a little slow.

SPEAKER_03 51:09

A little slow, yeah. Um, so the dog you like, do you normally see it in a particular those aspects in a particular breed, or it just depends on the dog?

SPEAKER_01 51:19

Um, I'm a I'm a big duchy fan.

SPEAKER_03 51:21

Oh, you're a duchy fan.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

Okay, this is the first time in my life I haven't had a duchy.

SPEAKER_03 51:26

Oh, really? Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

My last duchy passed some years ago, so um, and she, you know, my duchies have always been called like liability dogs, right? That's I like, or at least I used to. I'm I'm getting used to having a social malinore. You know, so I'm used to being like, no, don't come near me, and he's over here wagging his tail. I'm like, well, you know what, man, stop. Yeah, you know, we we not friendly, like, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 51:58

Have you ever worked a bull herder?

SPEAKER_01 52:00

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 52:01

What do you think about those dogs?

SPEAKER_01 52:02

I like them.

SPEAKER_03 52:03

You like them?

SPEAKER_01 52:04

I like an over-the-top dog.

SPEAKER_03 52:06

Okay, gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 52:07

Now, every single one of them I've seen is over the top, and I like over the top, right?

SPEAKER_03 52:12

What about a snouser? You you worked, you love snouser, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

I love the defensiveness of snougers, uh-huh. The natural kind of seriousness that they have, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:25

Let me let me ask you something. I was watching one of your videos, and you do something called a raise and train. What is a raise and train?

SPEAKER_01 52:33

A raise and train is essentially where um, if someone doesn't have time in their life, I keep their dog for a predetermined amount of time. Usually my raising trains are six months and over. Um, I have a raisin train, he's going on a year and a half. Okay, and so that that doesn't have anything to do with necessarily like the training that he wants. He wants a dog that's social enough that he can go in public with or take him on the with him on his private jet, um, but also protect. Okay, right. So, usually raising trains are for people who absolutely do not have the time. Like, I talked to his assistant the other day, and she's like, Yeah, he hasn't been in it at home in a year.

SPEAKER_04 53:18

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

Okay, yeah, the raise train is for. Okay, I take the dog, I've had him since he was six months. Essentially, I'm raising him like I would my own dog, putting the person of protection in, putting high-level obedience in that dog, so that way we're not creating a liability for this man. Okay, so the dog will be fine uh when you transfer uh to have some sessions because he's he's definitely he's a rot roller, so right, yeah, right. He's not gonna be happy about a man taking hold a big man taking hold of this leash, but yeah, yeah. So there's there's gonna be a transition period, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 53:58

Have you ever have you ever heard of the term? I'm sure you have heard of it, but leash manipulation, like training a dog, uh, to you know, you could explain it and uh how does how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 54:10

A couple of different ways. Um, there's oppositional reflex. Okay, um, there's leash manipulation. I don't I don't train on oppositional reflex. Um, oppositional reflex would be say you tell your dog to sit. Your dog sits, then you take the leash and you pull the leash forward, and you want the dog to essentially nope, I'm not going. So that would be an oppositional reflex. Okay. Um I don't train like that. I train on leash pressure. If I put pressure on the leash, I want you to come to me. Um, so leash manipulations are just skills with leashes. Um, and it's funny because you'll see people are more coordinated with the leash than some. Usually, people who are who have played sports um in their younger years are more coordinated with leashes, and they have the ability, like with the dog circling around them to just take that leash, put it behind them, and switch it to the other hand. You won't believe how many people struggle through that doing that.

SPEAKER_04 55:09

Right.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

And it's you know, it's simply because our motor functions, our finer skills, it's things that we don't practice. Um, for me, having a leash in my hand is like second nature, right? Um, and you just have to think about what type of trainer is who, you know, some people are going to train that oppositional reflex. Some people are going to train through leash pressure. I train through leash pressure. Um, like I said, if that if my leash goes straight, that means I want the dog to come to me. If I have slack in the leash, that means the dog is free to do what he wants.

SPEAKER_03 55:40

Maybe next time I talk to you, there'll be a question you couldn't answer.

unknown 55:46

Yeah, let's go for it.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

Because as long as I've been training, I I also want to learn. So if you throw me for a loop, then that means I'm gonna go look something up. I'm gonna make a phone call and be like, David, um, right, this guy. I don't know if you watch NWA got girls on the podcast, but um, he had no idea. Do you know?

SPEAKER_03 56:08

Right. Let me let me ask you something uh about Mr. OJ one more time.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 56:12

Did he ever tell you guys like how he learned the skills or who he learned from?

SPEAKER_01 56:19

So OJ is or was old country man, so he always told the story when he was a kid and he used to race greyhounds, but his mom did not want him to have a dog, they couldn't have dogs, so he learned how to keep his greyhounds under the house with no no boundary, no barrier, or anything. Learn how to hide them in there and how to keep them quiet, and then bring them out on racing day and go race them and then bring them back. Whoa, as a kid.

SPEAKER_03 56:54

Wow, wow, wow, that's crazy. Where was he from originally? Texas, okay. Uh, yeah, yeah, wow, that's crazy. Angela, let me ask you one more question.

SPEAKER_06 57:04

I got you, of course.

SPEAKER_03 57:06

You are some very successful person, very driven person, intelligent. When I first talked to you, you kind of shocked me. You sent a wave through my body. I said, Dang, she's very professional, and I believed her too. Like, you maybe like, you know, sometimes you talk to somebody and be like, okay, yeah, it's just a routine, but I just tell the I can feel the sincerity about you know when you when you talk. I said, Oh wow, okay. Um, but if you can tell yourself, your younger self, something, uh, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Just to keep going. Keep going that um that this world is going to throw all the loops and the hoops at you, and that you're gonna have to jump through all those hurdles, but keep going and keep pushing because at the end of the day it's all worked up, and don't let no stop you from anything.

SPEAKER_03 57:59

There we go. There we go. Well, I appreciate you coming. You guys use code NWA for free. I'll just but uh man on bike nights. No, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, but I really appreciate it. Um like what you do. I gotta have you back. Uh Douglas the co-producer. He said, just we want to do an introduction. We ain't gonna just just get just driver crazy yet, Joe, but we're gonna we are in the so but yeah, we appreciate you and uh thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

I appreciate your time today. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 58:37

All right, all right, thanks, Ezra. Have a good night.

SPEAKER_01 58:40

You as well.

SPEAKER_03 58:41

Okay, step into the realm of canine wisdom with our podcast NWA Honey Course Code, where we interview dog men and women from around the globe. Discover their talent and insights on breeding, training, nutrition, and the rich history of dogs. Tune in to the most underrated yet influential dog podcast on social media. Your journey into the dog world starts.