The tosu Inu Finale: Ancient Bloodlines, True History & The Bushido Code Uncovered

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Welcome to the Wake Honey Cortos Podcast, where we talk all things dogs.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Um so when it came to that, uh similarly even with the Akita, uh, they actually had to use Okay, look, I'm gonna say this. Okay, Akita people don't come after me. All right. All right. All right, look, this is this is not this is not this is nothing personal, this is nothing against y'all, but hang on just a second. I'ma I'ma find I'ma find this picture. Okay, and I'ma I'm gonna I'm gonna put this to rest right quick. I know I got it. There it goes. Okay, okay. And present sharing the screen, and it is there, and I want to show that one.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Y'all make sure to go over to YouTube and follow him on YouTube, Pride Rock Tosa. Okay, we're waiting on it.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Yeah, I appreciate it. Okay, and if it's too pixelated, I can make it smaller. Um okay. The dog on this picture, the back side of this picture says Akita. Okay. Now you can look at that. You know that's not Akita. You know, that's uh that's that dog is Tosa. That dog is Tosa. Um, that was what was called the Shin Akita or New Akita. Um and it was uh it was um it was one of one of several in that in that time period.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Let me see if I those old pictures are so cool, bro.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Man, yeah, you know, I got I got quite a few here.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Um this man has the artifact, y'all.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Man, we I got I got pictures. We want we want to look at pictures and look at history, yeah. He absolutely can, you know. Um, if we're talking names, this guy right here, okay. Um, Genki Kisudo, okay, one of the most monumental and in my opinion, uh influential and important figures in shepherding the breed forward to this day, keeping the people united, keeping the people moving forward towards the goal and the ideal, and working together across um organizations all over Japan. Um, this guy did a whole lot of good work, and and where he came from was, I mean, one of the most humblest of humble beginnings. Um, if we ever get the chance to talk about him, that would be something. This is um, let me open this up. This is a yokozuna being presented to the emperor at that time to to just show the dogs, it just kind of shows their place and culture. Again, it's very interesting in that most people haven't seen one, but that doesn't mean that they do not have an important place, an important role.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Um, man, there are a couple of other images that are vulnerable.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. There are um there's there's a dog in here that I would love to be able to single out. I I'll tell you what, I'm gonna make this uh to shoot, show you some of these. These are for people who say that they don't get up and that they can't, you know, they're not they're not active, they they gas out, they don't, they don't, you know, they're they're massive, they're too big and slow. They don't they don't do stuff, they don't they don't do stuff. Um there is I know they're in here. I'm I'm gonna make these a little bit bigger, I'm sorry. A little bit bigger so I can see he's a little bit better. Uh for size comparison, I pulled this one. Um this is a three-year-old doggo Argentino sitting next to a six-month-old Tosa puppy. Oh wow, just for size.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Um this dog right here is kind of case in point of what I was talking about earlier. This dog is clearly black with tan points, as you can see. The markings here. He's also got pie bald, so he's got this white on his chest and down his the socks on his uh front legs and back here the sock on his foot. Um, this dog is called Roku Jogo. He is the common ancestor of all black toasas, um which is interesting because most countries don't know that these dogs come in all colors, therefore they discriminate against black with rust. But clearly, all black with all black dogs came from a black with rust dog. Um, they discriminate against white anywhere on the dog. Um, clearly, in order to cut out those two things, you have to cut out, you're not just cutting out color preferences, you're not just cutting out what you want to see and what you don't want to see. You need to understand that there's a name with it. Um, this dog was um got Yokozuna, got championship, and was this picture, I think he was nine years old. And this dog would still handle himself very well. I don't I don't know that he was defeated. Um so, in order to say, when you say, hey, I just don't like the black and rust color, I just don't like pie bald, I don't think they should have white on them, you're not just cutting out this color, you're cutting out the genetics of this dog, you know, and that's that's one of the things I try to show people. Um this is grand champion Lion King out of Korea, Mr. Shung Sung Julie. Um, this is one of the most one of the most recognized dogs out of Korea, um, aside from perhaps uh dogs out of mopak. Um let me see here. And and people will ask, people will ask me time to time, um, what's the difference between Japanese and Korean dogs? There is no practical difference. I'm just gonna say, especially something that most people would observe. This guy, Mopak, sorry, not Mopak, Mopak. Uh, this guy is the guy that most people look at and say, oh, he's got to be part Pitt, oh, he's gotta be part Kengall, because look at that masking and this, that the other thing. They'll just say random stuff, and all they're doing is just saying how much they don't understand. This dog's lines go back to World War II. You know, uh, the breeder for this dog goes back to World War II, and saying random and ignorant stuff like that is is it's not just disrespectful, it's it's harmful, you know, in a in a lot of ways. And I don't think people really grasp that. I've I've argued people tooth and nail, hey, think twice before you open your mouth to say stuff like that. And they'll say, agree to disagree. I'm like, wait, it's facts though. What do you mean, what do you mean agree to disagree on that? Like, wait, wait a second. We're not just talking about speculation. We got the person that bred the dog. We we have their parents, we have their parents' parents, we we got their generations going back as far back as you want to go. Um, and you know, you still have people that want to insist on seeing it their way, and there's there's only so much I can say and do for that. Um let me see here.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Man, you got a lot of pictures, bro.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Uh, this isn't even the start of it. This isn't even the half of it. Um, these are just the ones I kind of pulled out as best as I could um to kind of show a broad glimpse of the breed here. Um this would have been a person who had this breed during the time when they were banned. Um, this is a little girl with Hertosa. Um these would be the rings. I don't know what the uh viewership is as far as like what the rules are for YouTube and stuff, so I don't want to get you in trouble, but these would be some of the rings. I always kind of zoomed out. Um these are some of the rings. Yeah, so I'm not worried about that. Okay, okay. So this is a ring in Odate way, way back. Um let me see here. This would be another one. This would be another one. Um, I used to translate all of the words down here at the bottom, and I've got them written around here somewhere, but um I don't have those handy at the moment. This is the working line Shikoku in Jap in Japan. Um, you'll find that compared to the show lines that you here see here in the West, they don't have the rolled over tail. They don't look more like a show dog, they have a much more rougher look. And you can also see the influence, in my opinion, of several different breeds, um, several different Japanese primitive breeds in these dogs. They almost kind of look like a gindo to the to the like a country origin gendo, not a show gendo. Um here's some of my old school dogs again. Um this this girl, her name was Keiko. That boy's sumo. Um, this is not long after that I got them imported and was trying to uh hold them while I got their their housing ready. Um they are just very crudely restrained to this fence because I didn't want to overdo it because they could easily clear this fence. They they can clear this fence without touching it. Um all of all of mitosis could. The the real challenge is when you start getting to a six-foot fence, then your males are gonna clear it, some of your females that are properly motivated. Um, yeah, I I know I pulled those pictures. I just must not have put them on here. You can kind of see more of the uh massive influence on this dog, but I want to be clear that the the direction again, the direction each dog is bred is gonna be decided by the league that they're in. It's gonna be decided by this guy. I wanted you to see this guy. You can clearly see a lot more bulldog in this guy's face.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Um, but again, this isn't this isn't old school, this isn't um, you know, back in the 50s or 60s, and that was when this got bred out. No, you can go there today and see this in some dogs and some lines. And the reason why is because that that fits for that league at that time. Um I had a conversation with uh with a good friend, somebody I respect, um, who's also in the breed that subscribes to more of the Western sort of um logic. And her concern was if you can't track them by phenotype the way you track a Doberman or a German Shepherd, et cetera, et cetera, then how do you know who has a real Tosa and who doesn't? Um I'm gonna say you get a broader perspective. These gentlemen can tell a Tosa from a mix, they can tell a proper toosa from a farm, a meat farm dog, they can tell a um a working dog from Japan or Korea from any, you know, any dog from elsewhere. This is this is uh toza on a hog doing work. There was a couple of pictures of that that I pulled. Um they come in pie bald, as you can see there in the country of origin. Don't don't listen to the read standard, it's it's not telling you right.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Um, this is that stuff that I was telling you about the other day. Um, this is a dog in that that garb, and you can see clearly the Shimanawa, the rope here. You can see this lightning pattern, the zigzag here on the paper. Yes, um, this very, very ornate um picture here. I don't want to quote this wrong, but that looks like Inu to me. It's just the the mark here is on the wrong side. So I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

You said that you said that that that that outfit, uh, I hope I'm pronouncing it right or giving it the proper respect, could cost 30k.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

That was in the 90s. Oh, the 90s, okay. I don't know what they cost. Yeah, okay, good. I don't know what they cost now, but it wouldn't surprise me if they double that. Here, this is another Akita. So you can see you got the tail, but you see these drop ears and this this toza shape. The shin Akita um was used to restore the Akita, the modern day Akita. Really? You got your your um your Western American so-called Akita and your Japanese Akita. They're essentially the same dog, they were just different directions. Um the Americans got them and they liked the size, they got tired of waiting for Japan to decide what they wanted to do to fix this, essentially. And then Japan eventually decided that they would breed them back to that primitive look. They did a lot of work over a lot of years to make that happen. But to this day, um, you'll see an Akita come in Tosa colors. And a lot of people don't know this, but um just because an Akita is not an a Tosa, that does not mean they are a pushover. And a lot of their perspective towards other dogs and a lot of their their physical capability, it's easy to underestimate them um thinking one thing, but they have enough of that tosa in them that you would be surprised that dog is not going down. Um, this big rope here is Shimanawa. And this, these are you know, people, life size people here, and this is at a temple. Um, and again, it wraps around the temple as a blessing, or they have it over the entryway as a blessing, and it's the same blessing that you're gonna see on these dogs. What is the text? What is the texture like? What what what is it similar to the the texture of the rope?

SPEAKER_02 17:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Um, if I recall correctly, it's hemp. Hemp like a type of a type of hemp. Okay, gotcha. Yes, yes. And you can see again the the zigzag lightning pattern here. That one's the one you'll see the most often. Um it you'll also see some dogs that are historically very relevant, but they don't have the silk garb or the rope or the the uh she did the paper. Um you can see this picture here kind of points it out there. I don't know if y'all can see that very well. Um but um but yeah, that that that uh this dog, for instance, came from a time before that was a bit more of a popular or practice thing. So you're not gonna see a silk garb on this guy. That doesn't mean he's not high ranking, right? Um usually a lot of the shinikitas, by the time they started mixing toza into it, it was because the toza was already dominating. So a lot of these shinikitas made it to Ozeki, which is the second highest rank. Um you look at this paper here. Um, okay, so this is a very, very, very specific writing style that is only used for traditional sumo writing and for the Tosa. So it's very culturally significant, it's very specific and not used anywhere else, and it has very specific um uh meanings to it. So if I recall correctly, this is the East um League, this is the West League, and each league has like if you go from I think it's starting at the center and reading out, and starting at the center and reading out, I'll have to look at it again, but that's your rank. So this whole rank up here, this is a list of dogs. Um, this is a list of dogs, this is a list of dogs, this is one class, right? Right up here. Then here, you got the name of another class, and that's this class here, and you got so many dogs here. Same here, same here, and same here. And what you'll find is that as you go up, the writing gets bolder and bigger for the dog's names, versus down here where it's very faint and small. And again, that just goes to show their their rank and stuff like that. As far as the the human version of this, it's it's exactly the same, um, except that it's just a human version, um, for human sumo. And as far as the rankings and categories, there's more because humans have a longer lifetime and can you know hit more ranks along the way, whereas dogs don't. Actually, only the the one name here can wear the rope, and only the top, the top like three or four can wear that robe. Aside from that, nobody else is allowed to wear it. Um nobody else is allowed to mimic this sort of writing style except for the Tosa. Except for the Tosa. And when we when we look at this breed and try to understand their role in society, um, this is a Western dog here. Um very, very, very, very mastiffy, but um you know, not not not too not too tough to pick out. This is one of my boys uh running out here in the country, uh, running next to a golf cart. I I cheated, I I put him back and then took off so that I could catch him passing me. They're not usually behind me. Um this dog here is from the 30s, and then this dog here is from the 70s. So again, this isn't old style, and then say new style. This is that dog for that time and that league at that purpose, that dog for that league and that time and that purpose, and we can just go down this list and talk about each and every one in that same way, right? Right. Um, I'm sorry, I don't want to I don't want to hijack the whole conversation, but no, hijack it. We didn't one thing I did I did okay, okay. Well, yeah, and and one thing I did say uh before was that there were three things that people needed to understand about this breed. You can kind of see this guy with a toza here, and most people wouldn't even know, you know, right? That dog's face looks too snipy to fit. What we would call um a Tosa, as far as our Western understanding. But I can't say his name, but that guy's important. And that guy is you don't just ignore him, right? He says this a Tosa. This dog is still alive because it has proven itself as a Token. So there's not a question of whether or not this dog should be a toaster, whether or not this dog is a toaster. We can't bring in our Western thoughts and supersede again the Japanese assertion of they know what they built. And what they made is to be respected and honored as what it is. If you want to make something else, you're welcome to go make something else, you know. But you can't tell them what is and is not, right? You know, you can't tell him, Oh, yeah, that's a mix. That had to be mixed with a Labrador. Look at that head. You know, no, you can't, you know, you don't have the right or the place or even the understanding to be able to say that. This is a dog from way, way back. This is a dog from way, way back. So you can see strong pit bull influence on this dog because this is back when um the pit and the pointer were first added into the breed. Um, certain pits and certain pointers were added, or should I say rather certain bull interior dogs and certain pointers were added into the breed. You can see a lot of that influence. Some of these are my dogs interspersed in throughout here. Um I like I like it if people can see my dogs and see what we're doing and stuff like that here, but I don't want it to be just about my dogs because there's so much more to see and learn and know. Um, I got pictures of the current Yokozuna around here somewhere, but I didn't get permission to share those yet. Um, so at some point you'll see those. Um, but yeah, these are these are just some of the ones that I kind of selected and and pulled out for you to kind of see. Again, the color doesn't matter. Look at these feet, these back feet, and how they're turned out. If you brought that dog to the West people scream, oh yeah, but you see this. You see that. Yeah, he didn't he didn't just he's not just there for show, he's not just there because somebody said, Oh, I think this dog should should should get a chance to be. No, and a lot of people see them with their you know, their their confirmation doesn't look like a dog show confirmation, and they think the dog must be um incapable, but a lot of this comes from putting those back legs up against that ring right there and pushing hard, you know. Um, one of the rules is the dog always has to move forward. If they're not moving forward, they forfeit. I think if they take, I think it's three steps, three steps any direction other than forward, um, they forfeit, they they lose, you know. Um so a lot of the way the dog is designed, um they're built to stand and fight. They're built to make a stand, draw a line in the sand, and you're not crossing it, nobody else is crossing it, your friends aren't crossing it, you can go get them. It doesn't matter, you know, it's not gonna happen. Um, you're not gonna outrun them uh as far as like energy and stuff. Uh, where's that boy? Where's that boy? I got a I got a black boy on here that I had several years ago. That's a good example of it. But all I can say is if if you keep your dogs heavy and overweight, uh it doesn't matter the breed, they're not gonna perform. But our dogs are out here running from one town to the next across Texas, so it's it's not cold. Um, it can be hot, it can be humid, or it can be cold on the winter, but they don't see the taillights on that golf cart. This boy never saw the tail of that golf cart. Um, the next town over from here is probably another three or four miles down that road. He never sees the taillights ever, ever. Right. Um, except I guess when he pauses to relieve himself, but then he just catches the truck, I mean, catches the the golf cart like it's nothing. Um, but there's just there's just so much to see. Man, I I love this dog here. Um, it's a poor quality pickoff. I make it too big, it's tough to see. But I love this dog's bone, I love his size. Um, that's that's his front. I mean, you just look at that front end. Um, this is what they're talking about with expressions. Yeah, this is not an expression that was that was bred by phenotype to add wrinkle here, make it lay this way, make the ears lay that way. No, this is a dog that was put through, as they would say it, stood in front of a uh uh somebody that was put there that wants to compete, wants to challenge, and is a legitimate challenge, put in front of an insurmountable wall and had to face it. And again, I'm not saying I'm not trying to put forth dog fighting as good or great. I think that there are many ways that we can accomplish that. Um, and that's why we're working on our own sport to be able to do so. But saying that we did the dogs a favor by giving them nothing when we took them out of their country, I think is is also very wrong.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

100 100, brother. I agree, I agree. I uh yeah, I was talking to a uh um first off, I always think that preservation breeders over here have more knowledge than some other working people when it comes to the breeds, but uh I was talking to a friend of mine, and I know that some of these breeds that's being preserved don't have nothing up here, zero up here in a show in it more on the show side, and I was talking to somebody, and the more I talk to her, the more I realize about the nothing that a lot of dogs are getting up here now.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Yes, nothing, absolutely, absolutely, but think about it like that's that's one of the deep things about what I was told as far as um asking. I remember asking uh a certain dog man over there in Asia, um, you know, I want to learn from you, I want to know how how do you decide what to breed for? How do you pick in your program? Hey, I need more head, I need more bone, I need less wrinkle, more wrinkle, more muzzle, etc. How do you decide those things? And he told me the rules make the dogs, and it was just one of those things that immediately clicked for me. Um if if we say that most breeds existed before their standard, right? Nobody wrote a standard and said, I want to bring this dog into existence. They had breeds that existed and dogs that existed, and then they created a standard to try to preserve it. Um, and then we made that standard, we pulled them away from the work that made them, we pulled them out of the forge that created them and decided we could just breed it. And then again, nothing wrong with that. Nothing, I'm not I'm not trying to go after anybody, I'm just looking at the structure of this thought here. Um, of course, we're gonna have different dogs. Of course, we're gonna create a different creature. And when we take uh a shepherd, say a collie out of a field where it has to be the smartest thing on that field, it has to outthink everything. Take a livestock guardian out of the field where it has to be smarter than foxes and wolves, which is saying a lot because those are not dumb creatures. Take uh a working dog out of a working element, take a mastiff off of the battlefield, and again, I'm not trying to say war is glorious, but I'm trying to say mastiffs had an interesting role in war because they had to fight people, the smartest creature on the planet, and they had to outthink them, they had to deal with them in the Coliseum, you know. Take that requirement to be present-minded, take that out of the picture and say all you have to do is look a certain way, and you're it's it's not that people are malicious with it or they're trying to make a bad dog, but they're not trying hard enough to keep what's there, what was there in the first place. And then we fast forward to today, and I got people complaining left and right, oh man, this dog is trash dog, but you know, I mean, it's got clicks on Instagram and everybody likes it, and this is that and the other thing. And to me, it's like, well, of course, why wouldn't that be the next thing? If the dog doesn't have to do the work, right? If the dog doesn't have to be what it had to be to become what it was to earn the reputation that the breed got in the first place, if they don't have to do that, then why wouldn't the next thing just continue on? Okay, the show scene was the show scene for quite some time, but we're moving into a talk a technology age. Why wouldn't it as well? Why wouldn't the dog show be clicks on Instagram and likes and follows? You know, why wouldn't that be the next work? You know, so when I when I think about this breed and and the work that I'd like to do to try to protect and move it forward again, not in the sense of telling other people what to do with their dogs or anything like that, so much as giving that opportunity to be able to revisit that forge and remember the things that made them what they were and move that forward, and do so in a way that's legal, do so in a way that's ethical, sure, especially as far as what public perception is concerned, um, with no disrespect to the importance culturally and religiously in their country of origin, but we can't do that here, and providing that as an opportunity for these dogs to be able to preserve that and move that forward, I think is in my opinion, um, a more important conversation than um a scissors bite. How many wrinkles? You know, this is uh this is Mufasa. Um, this boy is the one I was talking about that um he got so sick he didn't eat for a week, and he um I would run my dogs next to a bicycle for four hours a day. I was in college and high school, I didn't have anything else to do but school and work and dogs. Um, and that boy that whole week never slowed down, stood beside that ran beside that bicycle the whole time across all of Southeast Houston. Uh, anybody that was in that area um from say the year 1999 through 2006, you've seen us. It was me. It was that was us, you know, and not just him, but um, so many of these other dogs that you're seeing in these pictures that were mine, all for these dogs. Same same story. Uh, this dog came to me overweight, this dog came to me overweight. They came from show line, uh, people that wanted to use them in show, they're not show lines, they were Korean Korean import, Japanese import, but intended for show. Um, and uh they were overweight. I shaved that weight off of them and they were keeping up with him. And these are dogs that don't don't touch a four-foot fence jumping over it. He he they don't touch his four foot fence jumping over it. They uh the best ones hardly touch a six-foot fence. Um, they outrun that bike every last, every last time that last mile, mile and a half. I would unleash him and we would take off. And this is a 21-speed bike. I'm pumping as fast as my high school athlete body would go, and I could not, I could do everything I could to just kind of try to keep them in in reach as far as um the go juice that these dogs had. Um doesn't matter the work, I've never been disappointed by a Tosa given a chance. Uh, you can see some of the first litters we had. Um, these little mops right here are um miniature poodles. Yeah, so uh my mom bred miniature poodles, my little sister was breeding chocolate labs, and one of the easiest ways I found to socialize my dogs was to let them have them let me raise and train their puppies so that they would get you know good training and go to good homes. So that's what I did, and and you know, to this day that still continues. My dogs see more than just tossas. Um, I want them to go places. Uh, we don't do as much here out in the country, and there's a funny story with that. The first time they saw a dog with wiry hair, this one litter of puppies freaked out, like, oh my goodness, he's dead. You know, trying to gosh, man, they freaked out, but it it was all the more important to me that even out here, um, I need to make sure I'm I'm keeping, you know, keeping diligent with socialization and stuff. These are some, these are some young, young puppies. I think they were about eight weeks, nine weeks at this point. Um, this is the first female I ever had. Her name was Sarabi. Um back back uh humble beginnings for sure. Um, but yeah, I keep saying I'm coming back to this point and I'm gonna finish it this time. Um when it comes to the things to understand about this breed. Um, like I said, one, they're not a Western breed, two, they're not a pit bull, three, gameness. And I just want to kind of talk about it structurally a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

Yeah, uh oh. We finna get in trouble now.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

I'm I'm gonna get I'm gonna get in. I'm trying not to get you, I'm trying not to get us in trouble.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

But let me let me put it this way. Um, there are some people that are just gonna disagree no matter what I say. If my mouth is open, I must be wrong. Um, but don't take it from me. Um, one of the most interesting and intriguing um interviews I've ever seen on the subject was with Madison Mad Dog Parker. You can look it up. Um, he specifically addresses the definition of gameness, and I kind of um summarize it. Um but the definition that I have is one that I think is very accurate. And the dogmen, the American dogmen, the Western dogmen, and and game dog men that I've talked to since, at first, when they first hear me say that definition, they disagree. Um but when we talk and we explain it and discuss it, they're like, well, you know, half the time they cuss and they say, I guess you're right. Um, and it's one of those uncomfortable truths about it. But rather than getting into that, I want to say if we zoom out, just like that Korean dog man said, the rules make the dogs understand there is no universal rule, okay? Every everything and everything everything subscribes to does not exist everywhere. Gameness, people people kind of hold it as this intangible um thing that they can't they they can't describe or explain to save their life. Uh you'd be surprised at how many people you ask to define it and they say gameness is gameness, or it's just gameness, you know. It's like, okay, but what is what is that? You know, they they can't it means what it says, it's game. Yeah, yeah, like you know gameness, you know, you know, you know, it's like no, I want you to tell me what it is, and they can't tell you, um, or they tell you wrong, they tell you, they tell you something that they think it means, but but if you look into it, you find it means something entirely different. When it comes to it, though, as a whole, right? It is a philosophy, it is a perspective, it is a way to go about selecting and um um developing dogs, your game dog, right? That doesn't mean that every dog has to be that or subscribe to that in order to be that. And one good example, I think um, I I love cars, I love a lot of different things, I'm all over the place, but I like cars. Um, my favorite car is a Dodge Viper, but I got a Mustang GT with the Ford, uh, the Ford V8, the modular v8. I got a 94 F 150 with the small block Ford. I know I got an HEI distributor, don't hate. I know it's a bow tie, don't hate. But um at the end of the day, what what I'm not gonna do is expect Ford to sell me a uh an American muscle car with a high winding four-liter v12, like Ferrari might. And and I'm not gonna expect Ferrari to put out uh a um you know a a what a a big block 454 to compare. 454, like I got outside. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. That's that's not that's not their thing. You can go across Europe, high-wind small you small motors, you go to Japan, high wine small motors, you go to the US. We don't we don't use turbos on our cars after the factory traditionally. Our muscle cars are called muscle cars because they do it with just size. If you want to throw a turbo on that, go for it. But that's just what it is, that's the philosophy. That doesn't mean that every car that goes fast has to be built that way. Some are electronic, some are hypercars, some have twin turbo V8s from American cars, like Link. Uh, what's his face? Cut Cunning Sick. Some of them have it, it doesn't matter the engine or how they go fast, but what needs to be understood is that there's more than one way to do that. And when it comes to um dog matching, I don't want to say dog fighting because it's not all the same. Um, game dogs is a way that some people do it, and some people describe it, and some people work with that, that thing that they're pursuing. Every dog should not be measured by that because that's not what every dog is about. That doesn't make them better or worse in in general. That doesn't make them anything, it just makes them different. Um, so when it comes to your bully cutter, and you you see some of these matches in in India, and I'll get people asking me, what are these guys doing? You know, you know some Indian people, what are they doing? You'll see these people and these dogs are are um competing, and the people are in there pushing them and and and shoving them or petting them or picking them up and putting them down and and doing what what Americans would consider interfering and and blocking, but you need to understand what they're trying to test is not what you're trying to test, and what they're after is not what you're after, and that it's just it's not what they want. You you can pop the hood of a Ferrari as many times, a V8 is not gonna appear under there, you know. Uh a small Chevy is not gonna just appear and materialize, you know. Um and in the same way, um the TOSA is not game in the sense of they are not meant to fall into that rubric of measurement. Um that doesn't mean that they're inferior to anybody. Um what needs to be understood is uh bushido, which um has certain tenets that again, these are not um, if they dodge uh parry, if they jump, jump as well and poke and stab and all this other kind of stuff. It's not simply this is how to fight, it's not about fighting at all, it's about character, it's about um becoming a whole human and as that applying yourself in in whatever you your get your hand finds to do, which may be um may be uh um a war or a battle, or it may be work at a job, it may be any any number of things, you know. You never know um what those things are, um, but as far as the tenets of Bushido, um they are in direct contrast to the concept of a game dog. So when people say, Man, I wish somebody would show. me a real game Tosa you're never gonna see that you you're not you're never gonna see that because that's that's not what they are um that's not how they that's not how they are designed to be and the more you look into what gameness actually means the more you see I I think if people really understood what it meant they wouldn't be throwing that word around like that they would not be they would not be saying it as a measure of whether or not a dog is a good dog or anything like that. Um I really don't think most people understand it and when it comes to trying to measure other dogs by it um it's just it doesn't it's a it's a round peg and a square hole or square peg and a round hole whichever one doesn't fit you know right um so so yeah what the TOSA is meant to be that thing to understand um they're not a Western dog they're not a pit bull they're not a game dog stop looking for that there you you're wasting your time and your energy and people who keep trying to like some people in the West want to try to make them into that so that they can fit in in the show scene but that's that's that's like trying to grasp oil with your hands. You can't it's just it's just gonna keep passing through um one of the most important bits of advice I ever got as a dog trainer was don't work against the animal right don't try to make them be something that they're not and the most frustrating work you're ever going to have is trying to force a dog to be something that you think they should be, that you think they should do and work the way you think they should work you're gonna spend your life in frustration. But when you start to understand the creature better and work forward in that and with that you're gonna accomplish things that you never thought were possible. But if you come to it with a preconceived notion oh I can't this or I will that um shoot if I can since we're coming after everybody today if I can go after the dog trainers is just one liner and say oh they got to be all positive or oh they got to be all corrections that's not what the dogs do themselves. Sometimes their positivity is calmness and balance and peace and they absolutely will correct each other what do you think the teeth are for like we I mean as in human interpersonal relationships a healthy relationship can say no. So why wouldn't you do that with your dog? Why would you start off by saying I can't do that why would I start off by saying I don't like hammers but I need to build a house I'm just not going to use a hammer what kind of house do you think I'm gonna end up with you know um that's for people who say you know I can't you you can't use an E collar or a prong collar or a flat collar or a halty collar or this that or the other thing that's this this over concernment with tools and missing the underlying creature and the thing you should be focusing on you know um I I want to be clear I don't think that that I'm the only person that's a good trainer there are a lot of really good trainers out there I just think that the this the the the industry is is pointed in odd direction at this time I I uh and I don't when it comes trainers have i don't i'm sorry i don't think trainers for the most part have perspective or at least they don't respect each other's path to get an adult to the same place they just don't they just it just it goes back to some of the stuff they do not I will say that right yeah it goes back to some of the stuff we were talking about in the beginning of the episode where um I would say that um um my way are the highway type deal you know what I mean um Western concept bully song it's it's it's this way no other way you know what I mean so yeah yes absolutely and for me I think again I'm I'm only one man I did this math when I first started my dog training company um I forget what the actual number was but it was something like 20 dogs 20 that's how many dogs I can help at a time as as far as professionally with different households um in the city of Houston alone which is where I grew up multiply that by a million you might have how many dogs are there so if I got the only monopoly on good information if I'm the only worthwhile trainer if I'm the only one that can help people and help dogs um what good is that I I got a lifespan I got I got a shelf life I'm not gonna be here for forever shoot you listen to my wife I'm not gonna be working for forever I'll be retiring you know um but but when it comes to it um being able to understand I think it was Max von Stefanitz who said um and I don't agree with everything he or everybody else said from that era but one insightful thing I think he said was um whoever can answer the question how can I say this to my dog that man has won it all um or something to that effect um I think that's the essence of dog training right um there's not one human language that people speak but we can get a message across we we know when someone's happy and when someone's sad we can we can learn to communicate and similarly with dogs um I won't say that everything everybody does is okay no I don't think so um but there are more than one way to accomplish uh training the the fundamental thing is the thing that needs to happen there's a lot of ways to get there you know that's right that's right and quite frankly being able to being able to see that has led to me being in a very odd position I'll get people calling me and saying hey my trainer said this this that the other thing and because I understand what structurally needs to happen I can see what they were trying to say and what they were trying to do and I can help with their training method and their training system and stay inside their box and say do this this that or the other thing and then they do that and it works. And I mean I can't tell you how many times I've done that and a lot of that um to me isn't that it makes my way worse or lesser because somebody else's way can work I do feel like my way is the most efficient that's why I do it but that doesn't mean that it's the only way right that's right that's right um I am so sorry I just realized we were talking about dog training and we were supposed to be talking about toasts oh yeah I get it yeah yeah it it it it needed to be said yeah it needed to be said some people just poke holes in whatever you say or do they looking for a hole yeah yeah they even it might not even be one there yeah they're gonna make one no yeah but they're gonna make one they're gonna make one there's gotta be something to be said you know um but yeah so so when it comes to um just kind of getting back to to gameness versus Bushido um there is no overlap between those constructs those concepts those ideas there is no uh hey we can take a little bit of this and it'll help over here that's like that's like a fish being helped by the things that it needs to survive underwater having those things also help it on land. No it's a different environment it's a different pressure it's a different requirement nothing that you do in the water helps you on land. You try to walk you'll get to the bottom of the sea real quick you know down there in the ocean. And if you try to swim on land you'll just be sitting there on the shore and you'll die of hunger not going anywhere because you're just flopping right same same idea you know so um that being said you know take it or leave it some people might like it some people might look into Bushido and say that's everything I want to be of course I want a dog like that. And there's some people that say hey I think this game this might be better. This game dog might be the better thing for me in the way I want to go and if that's you know that's them that's that's fine. You know similar to I'll get people that'll that'll misunderstand that these dogs were made to be Bushido okay not a phenotype. So again I'll get people that'll be like hey man yeah the the the Japanese back in that time they didn't have access to all the dogs that we have today and um we need to add this breed that breed this breed that breed like if you look at some of the videos online on this breed there's always somebody is talking about how they can build a better mousetrap as one of my friends might put it um but again you can build what you want to build and make that your thing there's all kinds of people with band dog programs and hybrid programs and this that the other thing um even entire breeds that are made from such mixes you know right um but you can't just say that it's still the thing that you want it to be you you made your own thing and especially when it comes to the TOSA the first people that should have reached out to these dog men and learned to them should not be me. It should not be me I'm I'm kind of like if I'm gonna sit here and think about it I'm upset with the people that came before me some of the people not everybody is like that but some of the people that came before me in this breed in the West who did not in that way that missed opportunity. These people who've been stewarding this breed for a thousand years suddenly had somebody come up and say we want to do things the Western way you need to get in with us or don't and they didn't and instead of saying hey we're sorry we still want to learn from you they said we're gonna make up our own thing this is the new breed standard and this is the competing way uh this is a competing model or idea of this breed and this is better because it's it's refined look at how their lines are better and they're and and you can see their pedigree and and this is that and the other thing all these things that have nothing to do with what a toaster is right literally everything that has nothing to do with it we got a breed standard that has three words to describe the temperament you say what it we got that bad we we take we take yes dogs in other countries up and and we make them we tell them they got it wrong whether it be the borable yes oh my gosh we we we tell them no that's right doesn't matter yeah we're gonna do it the right way we're gonna we're gonna show you I mean you made the breed and you know it exists to this day because of you button we're gonna show you the right way to do this you know and um you know shoot if I man if I if I'm a if I'm a start you know if we if we got shots fired look um when I the reason why I even found out the toza existed was because at the time I was looking at other more popular breeds and the great dane at that time had an average life expectancy of two years I kid you two two years the average life expectancy of the Great Dane was a juvenile they would not live to see adulthood now you go to today and they worked it up it's I think it's up to six to eight now um but a lot of work from a lot of people but it needs to be understood um I'm not just calling people out or attacking anybody the best intentions got us to that point the breed standards and the way we were breeding things and the way we were doing things better than than the boarhound work that they were doing when they were created right that was what was supposed to help them and we got to got them to the point where the average life expectancy is two years. That means some dogs might live to see six but some dogs are living so much less than two years that they're pulling the whole average life expectancy down. Do you know how much of a percentage of the breed that has to be for that to happen and that happened while the best people were working with them and doing their best at least as far as we can tell level best with the best standards and the best this and the best that I can I can say this I can say this um we can say whatever we want about the Japanese dog man about the Asian dog man about the work that they have their dogs do. But their dogs don't get buried at four years old um their dogs don't get buried at two years old for heart this cancer that uh displasure this dysplasia that you don't see that um their dogs are healthy producing healthy dogs that confirmation may not look like what we expect to see at a breed show um but their dogs live longer and they stay out of the vet's office um so when it comes to it I I guess saying something that bluntly sounds like I'm trying to fight I'm not um and but what I'm trying to say is is that when we look at managing dogs when we look at the way we do things here in the West and then understand that Japanese dog man's perspective where they had the tradition and the people shunned it. The people decided they would go their own way make a standard when a standard was already there the rules of the ring were the standard the ring was the dog show um you didn't try to find something suitable for your Western context you just completely got rid of it and decided that you did them a favor by putting them on a sofa. You know you completely cut them out Japanese dog men never want to see a Tosa turned on a human being. So most of them absolutely reject the idea of the dogs in protection work. And I've been working with them to try to get to the point to understand exactly what it is that could be beneficial from them doing that. But you don't see me showing my dogs in doing protection work. Yeah it could get a lot of publicity it could get a lot of notoriety but I guarantee you you're never going to see it publicly until they give the sign off until they give the go ahead out of respect um because of the fact again that instead of working with them which they can be worked with we ignore them we don't need them anymore we got the dog we we don't need to worry about Bushido or character or intelligence or any of the things like you said that go on inside the head of the animal we don't need to worry about that because we can sell an exterior look you know or you know this lineage you know like we said in the last episode it's a championship bloodline you know because there's a there's a such thing as something else right yeah um right right I think the FCI within the last year reclassified the breed um as a guardian breed and there were a lot of people in the West that celebrated that and I remember just thinking to myself and going and talking to certain people and letting them know hey that's not good news. It's just continuing to do the thing that we did at the start when we took the dogs and left everything else it's continuing to drive a wedge in their trust because they can see what we're about and and I get why people did that. Shoot man I I get why and I get why it's easier to brand this dog as a samurai dog than to actually talk about what goes on in that ring. It's easier to say that they're a protection working dog than to have anybody think that they're a fighting breed because people have preconceived notions of what that means. But when I talk about this breed, like when some people talk about this breed they'll say they're good with other dogs or as family dogs despite their history in the ring. And I'm gonna say clearly no you don't understand Bushido. If you looked at Bushido and understood it you know that it was because of what it required to perform in that ring they're a good family dog. Because of Bushido they're they're naturally therapy dogs. I I got so many people that got dogs from me that got dogs from elsewhere that have TOS some of them imported from Japan from uh from work from the work that they never had to teach the dog to be a therapy dog. But this dog is already giving you advanced warnings hey you're about to have a seizure this dog is already seeing your instability getting ready you're about to have a a um a problem getting up these stairs and this dog immediately moves itself beside you and you didn't have to say that and you never taught that dog that you you never taught that dog the difference between a human uh grown up adult and a baby you never taught that dog the difference between somebody who has good intentions and bad intentions you never taught that dog any of these things and they just seem to know it. And it's not because um in spite of what their history was it's because of what they had to be in order to be successful not just in the ring but in order to demonstrate Bushido. In order to demonstrate this thing that exists as a lifestyle not just something that you see in a ring for five 10 25 30 minutes it's it's the life of the dog you sit in a room you don't have to see a Tosa but you can sit in a room and you can know one is there because of the presence that and the bearing that comes with that animal they they they can walk up to another dog and and I'm telling you I've had dogs of all different kinds that want to fight with every dog they see and without fail without fail when a Tosa walks into the room an adult walks into the room with that mindset everybody gets quiet I mean dogs that I'm sitting here telling ah hey calm quiet relax and it's a guest dog and it's not listening to me yet but that dog just steps into the room and everybody relax everybody chills you can't you can't put that into a written standard you know but if you and if you don't if you don't spend enough time learning and growing and and and and and and just soaking in the knowledge and and wisdom from these these dog men over there and and some of their some of their the people that they've taught elsewhere I got mentors outside of Japan and Korea I want to be clear about that. But if you could just sit and soak with some of these people and see so much of what this dog is and is supposed to be you start to get much more of that picture and and start to understand again why I say I don't worry about my dogs with kids. Oh but it's a fighting breed not like you're thinking oh but it's it's gotta be game no and that's why I don't I don't I don't have to worry about them like that they they don't have to go after everything in order to prove that they got it in them. They don't have to um they don't have to fit anybody's description in in Sports Illustrated in 19 the early 1950s very famous sports illustrated writer took a trip to Japan and wrote on this breed and one thing I'll never forget that he uh uh talked about was that he said that um there was this prestigious match yokozuna against yokazuna this was a match that like you know how with your your your professional boxing and stuff like that here in the US or even a concert you're gonna have your people that warm up the crowd that the smaller matches that come but you know you got your main event coming this was the same thing this was that big build fight this this dog match between this yokozuna this yokazuna they're coming together be there be ready everybody pay their money everybody's ready and here's what happened here's what happened um one dog had experience and was there and was ready the other dog when he showed up he couldn't get in he couldn't he couldn't get into the mix whatever after one or two attempts they called the match and the the owner of the dog went up on the stage addressed the crowd and apologized and he said it's his first time performing in a crowd in front of a crowd this large he's a little nervous that dog left the stage With applause, standing ovation from everybody. That dog left the stage and went home and lived to match another day. Ended up going on, making Yokozuna, which is a dog that is matched against other Yokozuna and established his win record of I think two to three has to be at least in order to be able to get that title. That was a dog that went on to become a thing. But if that were a pit bull, if that were a pit bull in a game dog match, if that were a a dog in China in one of their dog fights, if that were a dog anywhere else on the planet, would would the crowd have applauded it? Would would the dog have been continued to be allowed to to to to match? Or would it have been scratched as a wash? What would be the different outcome anywhere else on the planet? Not just some places. What is supposed to happen? What is expected? You know what I mean? There's something deeper there and something just bigger there. And when we see again the difference of the structure, the structural uh forge that is intended to create the canine embodiment of Bushido, there is room for growth, there's room to learn. Now, excellence is required. Don't get me wrong, they're not gonna take subpar and just excuse it or explain it away. They they they put forth their best in all things, but even in that, they don't see those dogs as a necessity to prove something about themselves. That dog is its own standing, that dog is its own creature, that dog will demonstrate and stand or fall fall on its own, and that dog will reach what it can reach and do what it can do, and we will continue on. You know what I mean? Um like I said, I I I cannot support dog fighting, though I respect like someone who respects diamonds has to respect the pressure that made them, right? At least to a certain extent. Um I respect the people and their tradition, I respect their culture, I respect their religion, I respect so much about it. But for me personally, similarly, right? I can't bring myself to hog hunt my dogs. Call me a softie, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:57

Call me a softie.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:59

I respect you, you got that. That's all for you. That's that's that's great, that's wonderful. And heck, man, I I'll even watch sometimes and see some of those hog hunting videos and watch the the big catch dogs go in and stuff like that. That's that's cool. But for me myself, could I do that? No, if I had to in order to survive and put food on the table, yeah, that's one thing. And there's some people that that's what they do. Um, but for me, for sport, no. Doesn't mean that I can't respect for those that do. And that doesn't mean that I respect all kinds of dog fighting. Um, I want to be clear about that. It's not all the same, it's not all coming from the same place, but I can respect these people and the honor and dignity that they try to do everything that they do, right? Regardless of what it is. Um, and I can learn to work with them and work us all towards a better future. Exactly. You know, I'm sorry, I just completely monopolized that and got on a soapbox. Hey, hey, Elliot.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:01

I want I I want you to spill it out. Uh, something I do want to say because uh I don't think people know this this is a good book, and you really want to read about about the history of your your dogs, uh all kind of dogs, your pets, what they were originally designed for. You know, we we can tell you the truth over here. We don't we're not we're not softies. Oh, we tell you the truth what they were designed for. Dogs had a purpose besides sitting on couches, and um of course things have modernized, and uh, but dogs have been used for all kind of things, and uh, I think the public should know more of the history, the true history of dogs, uh yeah, instead of a lot of this pancake talk that goes on out, yeah, going on big time, like and and and and again that's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:05

The modern times have moved us forwards in some ways. So, um, if we could say something that um has less heat, I don't know if it has actually less heat, but something that is um we could take a break from dog fighting for a split second, and we could say um filibra. Yeah, half of it needed to be hound enough to track down escaped slaves, and it needed to be mastiff enough to deal with them when it found them, right? Um, take no bribes, that's the old jadita. Um we don't need that these days, you know. Um we we might have dogs that do scent work for for manhunts or or finding lost people and stuff like that, and that's great. And they they can do that sort of thing, but we we we can also find other ways to keep that dog moving forward in work. And and shoot, man, it's it's the reason why it's the reason why I don't still have a Blackberry, right? Right. Uh, who does these days? Right. They didn't move forward, right? Now they still they're still doing their thing, they're still doing some things. It doesn't mean they're not doing anything, but they're not the big name that they once were. They were the cutting edge. They were, yeah, but they didn't continue to move forward, you know. Same thing. Um I think the same thing is true, and this is this may be me speaking out of turn a little bit, but the more I learn about Japanese history, I think the same thing is true for the samurai. Um I think that there were some samurai families that saw the times turning, and for better or for worse, and by good means or by means that were less than what I would call good, they made changes to meet that moment. They went into different parts of society, but they understood that Bushido is something that is internal first, and they lived that out no matter what they were doing. And then there were some samurai who thought that the only way to be a samurai was to fight and to have the sword and to do those certain things. Um and they uh were not, they were not continued to this day. When the Imperial soldiers took over, they were the ones that got wiped out. When it comes to any breed, um man, this is this is this is a little rambling, but like when it comes to any breed, like one one good example. I I get stuck on breeds sometimes. You could tell what I'm what I'm learning about um by what dog I mention the most. Um but uh Central Asian Shepherd. For them to not be feeding those dogs, and those dogs have to go and feed themselves and still make sure no livestock are lost. That's the definition of a Central Asian Shepherd. Okay, it's not height, it's not coat length, it's not texture, it's not tooth length, it's not uh alibi this or Central Asian Shepherd that it's not no, it's the work. That's the Central Asian Shepherd.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:22

It's the work.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:23

That's the work. Now, I'm pretty sure that recently, one won a pretty big dog show, a pretty prestigious dog show. I can't remember which one it was, but that's the dog we're putting forward. You know, that's the dog that got the title, and that's the dog that's the set the the gonna be the popular sire for the next five years. But you tell me this. You tell me this you take that same dog that just won that show. Would you stop feeding him so that he can feed himself? Put him with your livestock next to a freshborn lamb. Already seasoned, yeah, as far as the dog is concerned.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:10

Check that out. Would you trust me? Huh? That's one of the aborigines. Oh whoa! Yeah, that's an aboriginal.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:20

There you go. There you go. There's another one.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:25

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:27

Yeah, yeah, I got yeah, I got some I got some heck of a pictures, bro.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:32

Man, yeah, look at that boy. Man, yeah, that's and and that's the thing. That's the thing for me. Like, you can have your show, you can have your pretty dogs, you can you can do that. And don't say I'm not saying don't make the dog look good, you shouldn't be proud of it or anything like that. But I'm saying if you can't take that dog and do that test and do that work, what good is it? And and I'm not saying the dog itself is worthless, but I mean the process that you're doing with saying that looks are all that matter. If the dog can't do the work, right? Um I'm I'm if I name too many breeds, then I'm I'm gonna step on too many toes. But there are many breeds that they physically can't do the work that they were originally bred to. And I think I think um I think that's sad. You don't necessarily have um escaped slaves for a feeler to run down, but you certainly can have them do search and rescue. Or if you feel like that requires a dog with a good temperament uh with strangers, then you can have them working different things. There's dogs that are working um on different uh properties and reserves and stuff to track down poachers and stuff like that. You don't need to have a good temperament with strangers, as a matter of fact, it's better if you don't, you know. Um better if you don't, and that's what the bull bull master was originally for in the first place. But who's using Bull Master for that these days? Who's letting those dogs work? Nobody's nobody's getting out there with those dogs like that. And and I think I think that's the shame. You can have the times demand some sort of change, but that doesn't mean that nothing is is the way, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:25

Right, right, yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:32

If it was up to me, there'd be there'd be something to do for every dog. I remember seeing a video of somebody had they had an English bulldog, and they were working that dog on a hog, and um everybody in the comments was, oh my goodness, that's terrible. Look at that dog, he's so sloppy, this, that, and the other thing. And to me, I'm like, no, hold up. No, this person gets it. This person gets it. If I'm gonna get me an English bulldog, I'm gonna get one from him. Right, right. Because the work they got away from is what turned the dogs into what they are today. There's a the best chance of getting something worthwhile is gonna be getting back to that work and letting that work make the changes. Hey, this leg is too short, make it longer so he can keep up. Hey, this this snout is too short, it's not gonna work. Make it longer so he can keep up, etc. etc. etc. That dog that that work will make that change over time if you let it. And and the at the start, it might not look like much, it might look as silly as um uh uh French bulldog doing shuts and then flying around on somebody's ankle, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:45

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:46

But that's okay. That's that's the start. Let it be. Give it time, see what it becomes, you know. Um, so yeah, I think um there's this uh if if if one thing is is not clear, I am a dog nerd, I I am not just in my dog breed. I will I will tell everybody the same advice. Uh, look, if you think you know dogs and you only know your breed, you don't know dogs. Um you you need to be an expert on at least three breeds. You need to be an expert on your breed, you need to be an expert on a breed that's very similar to your breed, they could be closely related, they could have the same job, they could have the same side, find something they have very, very much in common, and that dog needs to be the second dog you're an expert on, and then you need to be an expert on a dog that has absolutely nothing to do with anything you do, you know, or or a dog like mine where you you gotta study the breeze that made it up, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:54

Yeah, absolutely, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:58

Absolutely, you can yeah, absolutely. That's that's that's exactly right, you know. She it'll help you to understand yours, your current one better, especially when you understand what went into it. So absolutely, you know, but but just broaden that horizon and that understanding, and I find myself um just being a nerd, watching all kinds of stuff, gathering information from all kinds of breeds. Um, but I I find that it helps me to better manage the ones I've got, um, some conditions that didn't you know show up in my breed until more recently. And I know about them and see them in advance because I saw them in a different breed. And people how people taught me how to manage them um in a different breed. Somebody in Doberman's taught me uh this, that, or the other thing. Somebody in shoot, man, somebody in the German Spitz Club gave me everything we needed for our our templates for our breed club, you know. Um and you know, just when it when it comes to that that broadness and that understanding, the first the first dog show I ever got to present in um was a bully show. They invited us. They didn't they weren't they weren't threatened by new dogs showing up, they weren't bothered by it. Um, they actually put me on game because I showed up and I'm my whole experience up to that point is working, working dogs. So I show up and I'm like, I guess I should have bathed them first. Yeah, it's a dog show, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:48

Yeah, I didn't how how so your first experience in one of those fun shows, which the bully breeders are opening it up to all breeds now, so a lot of people having fun. I'm sure somebody getting bit with all them dogs they'd be having in there. But uh what what was the first experience like going into a sh show like that with the dog? How was how did the dog react to it?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:12

Um the dogs did great, they did everything that you that you'd expect um from from Tosas. If you want to know a good little mini picture of the difference between boys and girls, um at our booth next to us, um there were they were either English Bulldogs or old English Bulldogs. They were young, so it was a little tougher for me to tell. Um, but one of them was was really upset about the size of the dogs next door. And um one of my boys, uh boy named Dante, um, was just standing kind of next to him, and he that dog kind of lost it a little bit. And um Dante did what is exactly what I would expect for a male toosa. It's if you ever see a mongoose in front of a snake, it's that same sort of hapless, clueless, they don't look like they know what they're doing, but just kind of coming up and sniffing and just hey, you okay? Kind of look. Um, and that's that's what he did. He didn't growl, he didn't have anything to say against that dog at all, whatsoever. He's just, I think somebody needs to check on this one, you know. Like um, but he can see this dog is insecure, it's not it's not a threat, it's not something to worry about, so he's not taking it personal. Um, the girl, Kikyo, that I had with me on the other hand, was on the other side of the booth, and she comes over, like, I'm sorry, what did you say? You know, like um typical, typical female uh Tosa, in that um they they tend to, in my in my experience, they tend to have a much lower threshold. Um, it doesn't mean that they can't be like boys, some more are. Um, but some are a lot shorter fused and a lot less patients. Um, but but overall they did great. There was no disruptions. I actually had a uh a puppy with us that was about a year old. Um, no problems in between in between uh our own booth or with anybody else. Um they gave us the stage and let us introduce the breed and talk about them for 10 minutes. Um, which, you know, again, it was amazing. It was it was wonderful to be able to get out and talk about the dogs in public, show them somewhere. Um and uh prior to that, I had been to a like a formal dog show, um, like breed club show, like nationals. I'm not trying to get anybody in trouble, so I'm not trying to name them, but they were Kendall Club affiliated with like AKC um kind of show. And they wouldn't even let me come inside the complex. Um they they it was okay for us to take some pictures outside, but they wouldn't even let me come inside the complex. And you you contrast that with these this bully show where these are people that have their own programs, they have their own breed that they're trying to work on and work with, but they're still taking the time to come and talk to you. Come and hey, if you do this, if you move that, if you hold this, if you do this, you know. Um, and our dogs did great with strangers coming up, talking to me, stuff like that. Um, again, they are very observant, they learn by seeing. Um, as long as people are normal, you won't even know they're there, you know. Um, but if people act weird, that's when you start seeing them, you know. Hey, this person is not doing what's normal for a human being. And I want to be clear, um they observe people enough to know the difference between subtleties. This person has just never seen a big dog before. This person is just, you know, nervous about me. This person is just a little uneasy, etc. etc. etc. That person is trying to rob somebody, you know, like they they see and know those differences. Um, and I don't have to teach that. I didn't have to train that, I didn't have to teach that, I didn't have to make that, thank God, because otherwise that would be exhaustive work. Right. Um but yeah, you know, so every year uh check up on us and hey, y'all come back again. It's it's every year in the spring. Hey, I'll come back again. Yeah, yeah, we'll get out there, we'll come and we get to come and and uh you know show the dogs and stuff like that. It's it's it's neat. I still don't know what I'm doing. I I'm not a dog show person. Um I still understand the concept of sex. Uh to me, the dog is standing.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:13

Yeah, I love I I like I like the fun show. Yeah, I like the I like the fun show. Well, Corey, yeah, I'm I'm gonna have to get out of here. Um, I really appreciate you. I think you got a lot off tonight. Yeah, I think you got a lot off. Uh, and I I enjoyed this conversation. I enjoyed learning about this dog. I know it's a lot more, and I can ask questions all day long. Yes, sir. I didn't even get in the skin, but we we could we could probably do that another time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't get into that. Yeah. Um, so uh we're gonna get out of here for now. Do you have anything you'd like to say before we get out of here?

SPEAKER_00 1:28:02

Um gratitude big time to to you and what you're doing. Um, grateful to God for the opportunity to be doing what we're doing, grateful to my wife again, uh, out there doing the thing. Um, and and grateful to the watchers, grateful to the to the people who are taking the time to come and see. Um, whether or not you get a TOSA is is immaterial. It doesn't matter. Um what matters is somebody taking the time to learn and see and um just even acknowledge that these dogs exist. Um that's that's huge and and monumental to me. So um thank you to to everybody, uh everybody watching. I don't care who you are, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:50

Yeah. All right, brother. Well, we'll see you the next time. Yes, sir. Okay, all right, have a good night.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:57

Alrighty, sir. Thank you very much. Alrighty, you too.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:01

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