Ep. 20: Mux Mool & Jon1st| The Danger Den Podcast w/ Danger Foley @SXSW

In this SXSW edition of The Danger Den Podcast, host Danger Foley talks with Mux Mool and Jon1st about the creative intersections between sound, technology, and authenticity.

From performing at major festivals to experimenting with sound design, both artists reflect on what drives them to keep exploring new sonic worlds. They share insights on collaboration, self-discipline, and how to sustain a long-term creative life in an industry built on constant change.

If you’re an artist, producer, or anyone searching for inspiration in your creative journey — this one’s for you.

 Follow the Artists:
Mux Mool — Instagram @muxmool
Youtube:  @muxmool
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/5ExPH13WUhdGVNnMq6RLCr

Jon1st — Instagram @jon1st
Youtube:  @Jon1st  

Connect with The Danger Den:
Website: https://www.thedangerden.com
Instagram: @dangerdenco
YouTube: @TheDangerDenCO

Transcript

0:04

Hi, I am Danger Foley and we are back at the Danger Den house at South by Southwest in Austin, Texas. And I am here with Mux Mool and John 1st. Thanks for having us. Thank you so much for being here guys. You are fresh off the plane from London, England and you are in from Denver. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And you guys are playing tomorrow night? Yes. Tomorrow night. Secret warehouse space for Irregardless. Late, late for the South by Southwest wrap party, I guess. Yeah. That's. Yeah. Epic. And you guys have been doing this for a very long time. Yeah. I mean I've been I started touring in 2008. And you started making music in late 90s? Yeah. I started making beats on computers in 1998. So I guess that's I mean, what is that, 26 years now? Something like. So. I've been doing computer music for a long time, touring since, like, about 2008. Toured all kinds of situations all over the world. So I'm, I'm very used to this, I'm, a early riser, early to bed for most of my life, but I rally for this kind of thing. You know, I wouldn't necessarily stay up just to go to a party, but I will stay up to play a party. For sure. That's kind of what this is all for, is those actual moments when you actually get to perform for the people who are up late enough, who actually are there to see your music. What I feel like there's different deejays that gravitate gravitate towards different time slots. There's, you know, the people that want to be there, the 10 p.m. to midnight, then you got the midnight to 2 a.m., folks, and then you've got the real late night folks. Why are those your people? Like, what about the music at that time? Makes it feel so resonant for you guys? Oh, that's a good question. Like, I appreciate like, all different types of slots with deejaying. Like I grew up playing like really when you were like playing at the time that you were booked for. So like doing like chill out warm up stuff or end of night, wherever you are. Like if you are doing direct support, all of these things. And I really enjoy the challenge and like the opportunity for each of those and being able to like. Play in each one. As a dj, you go into each one and dig stuff out specifically for a slot. And yeah, if an event is curated in that way, yeah, it can be really fun. Like we've especially if in order to withy for the ride as well in the journey. Totally. so with the combination of the two of you being in town, is there a lot of overlap that's happened before this? Is there something that's going to be happening at your guys's set tomorrow? That's going to be. Well, we've talked about it because we are playing our individual, you know, sets as we play. But we have started a collaboration project together. That we are planning to premiere sometime later this year that we're still working on, but, there may be a little bit of overlap tomorrow just because we've never actually we've played shows together too but never like. In the same production. Right. Set. So. Yeah. We'll we'll see. Yeah. Wow. So maybe. Maybe, yeah. So it’s a maybe. Yeah. If everything’s plugged in and just right, we we could vibe and that's another thing that's nice about playing late. You know there's no, there's not going to be some, you know, strict expectations. There's no, you know, stage curfew or anything like that. Totally. How did that collaboration project start? I think just orignally, initially just for friendship. I guess, right. Like, yeah. The first time I toured the US. I was a big fan of his music. And by coincidence, the guy I was touring with was already a, was a friend, Sam. Yeah. Yes, yes. Shifty. And we met for dinner. Yeah. With your partner. My girlfriend was a fan of John, and I saw that John and Shifty were going to be in town, and I hit up Shifty, and I asked if if they wanted to get dinner, and then we all went up to dinner. Yeah, and it started there. And, yeah, we just every time, I’d come through Denver, for various projects, we'd hang out and then it must have been after, after lockdown that we first, like, jammed or something. Oh, maybe. Yeah. 2022 maybe? Yeah. It was just very relaxed, and we’re like let’s hang out and maybe we can make, should we make some beats, cool. Right. And I mean, I had a few off days in Denver and we made a bunch of jams and then like, developed them a bit after time and developed them and, oh, yeah, this is working. And this is kind of fun, and it's unique to what we do individually. And we just kind of kept at it. And then it kept working because we could both agree to schedule times to work together. And you'd be like, yeah, I'll be there. It's been really natural process. We've it's just gradually evolved from like a friendship into the jamming and. And now look. Yeah. And now look. Yeah. So with a collaborative process like that do you have, you're both co-writers. You're both working on it equally. A lot of the collaboration works with the same tastes too. Yeah. So if someone or one of you is kind of working and you're veering the track in a direction that maybe the other one doesn't necessarily agree with, have there been any disagreements? No, there haven't been any disagreements. And I think that in terms of workload, well you know, our skills balance each other. Yes. For sure. instance, like, I have no trouble just starting up and getting patterns going and like, just getting ideas, like, down and then bringing it to our sessions and then sharing. And he can do more of the, you know, finite editing and stuff. Nitty gritty sound engineering. Yeah. And and so it works really well, like that. And stylistically, you know, this is the first like, you know, fully realized collaboration that I've done. What's great is that there are things that I would not have chosen, but that work, if that makes sense. You know? It's like having another chef add a little, a little bit of spice from a recipe that you've never had before. Yeah, and the blend of, you know, to sort of tastes is kind of what it's all about. Yeah. Totally. In some ways, I, I've done a lot of collaborative projects like long term, short term ones over the years, and in some ways I prefer I've, I've done way more collaborative work than I've done just on my own. Really? At least publicly. Wow. And I think part of it is, I'm into so many different types of music, different tempos, different styles that I can find it more difficult to lock down the overall like, not sound palette, but like, like what a project is. I get exactly what you're talking about. But with, with, another, another person. Like I'm very understanding of their tastes and what they do and don't like, and that gives me more of a boundaries like. Like a skeleton framework. Of like, okay, well, I wouldn't do that with this person because they wouldn't like that. Why would I want them to take the song that they wouldn’t enjoy? But if I know it's within these, these boundaries, then I'm going to push those as much as I can. So you're using your dj skills? It's a bit of the dj skills. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Putting what they would want into something that. It’s easier for me to put it in a box when I'm working with someone else. But it is over it over time. Like I'm able to do that a lot more. My my solo stuff, but it's definitely helped me narrow that down. Would you say that with that? I would call it an empathetic viewpoint of. Yeah, yeah. Putting the other collaborator artist in front of necessarily like your vision for the project? Does that influence your overall sound in terms of the things that you're doing on your own, as you're picking up these other pieces, or do you feel like you have a sound that's unique to you when it's just you? Oh, that's a great question. I would I don't think I consciously, it's never got to a point where I'm like, I'm going to use that on my own or this is for this or for this because I, I tend to if it's collaborative work, it would be it would tend to be written in the room or on one of those online sessions together, at least the idea like, okay, well that we obviously started that together. That's for us. And I'm thinking about it within that project. And then if I just do it on my own. It's on my own. So I don't really box them off that way. And sometimes there's overlap and then sometimes it's quite different. Yeah, because there have been sessions that I've had where something that I've started that was intended just to be for me. But when I listened back to it, I thought it would be good for this. And then I'll bring it there because you know. Yeah. I'm starting to do that a bit more too. Yeah. And I don't have a lot of attachment to, you know, with, with some of these, you know, I don't, I don't think of my own, starting productions as necessarily like sacred. You know, just bring it out. Some people do. No, I know, and I find that to be funny sometimes because there's there are no secret buttons in Ableton. It's all there. Yeah. There's, I'm not doing any. I haven't found them all. Well right. And I don't even know what they all are, but it's like, you know, that's not, you know, you don't have to know. Yeah. You don’t really have to know every button to know what you know to make a good song. Right. So I think the only time where that would change is I work with a singer on a different project. And with that project in particular, when it’s things like lyrics or like something that's incredibly personal, that's where I find, like the definition between that is like, okay, yeah, that that can only be for this because that's. Not just going to. Yeah. Take the scraps of it and throw it on something else. Yeah. All the time. Like resampling someone's voice or something like that. Because that's obviously like incredibly unique to that person. That that's where I the lines were going to get a bit. Yeah. I wouldn't murky, I wouldn't go, wouldn't do that. For sure. For sure. And would you say that your personal style has bled into your collaborations or vice versa. And. Yeah, I mean, it has to have. Yeah. Like I think I think for everything that I'm known for, for this project and with, you know, my, you know, new productions that are going to be coming out soon. Soon. I'm experimenting with new tempos, new feelings and stuff. So. What new tempos are you exploring? I mean, like 140 above. And that's not your usual style? No. Like, you know, I did a lot of, you know, 85 to, like, 110, you know, I mean, from the first time I put out a song in 2006 until, you know, like maybe 2017, it was like mostly in hip hop tempos. And then I just kind of wanted to. I needed something new, you know, I needed some new places to go. And, I had resisted doing, you know, 140 stuff because there's so many people who just they start and then they immediately get into making hard base dubstep, and it's all in 140. And, you know, a lot of it sounds very homogenized, very much the same. And so I kind of avoided that for a while. But then I realized that if I'm going to get into that tempo ranges, it's not necessarily going to sound just like everybody else. It's still going to sound like me because it is me. Yeah. And, it's very refreshing to work, you know, to start getting into those double time things. I think that's something like regardless of working together, that we both gravitate towards, as well as being, like completely open to different possibilities with tempo. Yeah. I think possibly if we go back to like maybe ten plus years ago with the scene that we're both somewhat linked to. Yeah. With, with beats where it wasn't I guess there was some homogenous music within it, but on the whole it, it really was super varied. It was more just, oh, yeah, we make electronic hip hop influenced music. And there's, it's, I don't want to minimize, variety of dubstep production because it's certainly not the case. But you could just for example, you could say, okay, half time kick and snare, LFO, wobble bass, for example. Some of those are like some of the type, genre stereotypes. There's a beat. So it's a lot more open. And I think we've kind of taken that a lot more, where it's not even just the exploring, pushing one tempo like you would with dubstep as much as you could, but it's more just like an esthetic or, an ethos more. Yeah. And with, with, with, you know, the hip hop beat like styles or whatever, which is like really gravitating that early on. But there was a sort of, insistence on, you know, if because a lot of that was sample based. And so you would want to find your own interesting samples, you would want to honor the source material by doing, you know, you're calling it your own music, by sampling somebody else's whole career. You know, they, these people had a life and a plan, and they practice. They became musicians. You show up, you grab this record, if you're going to take that, and then you're going to say, this is my own. You really should put something original onto it. You should honor the original, you know, sort of piece, feature it and build on it. You know, not just grab a loop from an old funk record and, you know. For real. Just loop it. That's not what we were trying to do. We're trying to, you know, showcase these these artists that we were sampling but also updated. And there wasn't there was there was, a lot of focus on making it the most interesting and making it the most respective to what you were sampling. So that means, you know, you're not just coming in and putting a kick in a snare on a loop, either. You're trying to, you know. Give it a fresh coat of paint or something to give it a second life. Yes. In the world. And, you know, moving away from that, also into like, just using fewer and fewer samples and writing our own stuff is that is its own challenge. Totally. Trying to make it all feel full without just having a whole, you know, set of crazy samples in it. Yeah. You both have been in this game for a very long time. What has been the evolution of the creative process for you? I'm sure it just started with tinkering on a couple knobs and you've gone up from there. But what has been the most effective way for you to, like, harness your creativity and actually be productive with it instead of just be boppin on a couple buttons and gettin nowhere with it? What my process has been has changed so much over time because I've been in so many different stages of you know what my creative process needs to be. Like, you know, because I started making songs in computers in 1998 with, like a, you know, Windows 95 computer with a program called Acid 3.0 where just, you know, kind of putting loops together with stuff and then it was just loops that were on my friend's computer. But I really liked it. But I had no responsibility. I didn't have to turn anything in at that point. I didn't have any plans to. You know, I didn't know what was going to happen. And I didn't put out my first song until 2006. So that's eight years of just kind of doing whatever. So during that time, it was when I had time and, you know, when I felt like it. And then after that first song came out and that first song went on to be one of iTunes best electronic songs of 2006, which was so unexpected. But it was like Me and Flying Lotus and Justice and like. What was the name of the track? Lost and Found. Awesome! And so, saw that it was up there and I said, I thought, I realized I could really do this, but then I had to sort of scramble to figure out, like, what is my process, you know? So it took a long time for me to get into a groove. And then there was many years where it was sort of Adderall fueled, you know intensity, you know, really, really working. Burn the candle. Yeah. And, you know, making songs on planes, making songs in hotels. But, you know, basically kind of it felt like, you know, raging it. And that worked for a short time. And then it sort of worked. Can I interrupt you before you go further? Yeah. Was the raging mentality. Was that because you were so fired up about it or because there was so much pressure? A little bit of both. Okay. just because that's kind of how it felt when doing it, too, like there's an intensity, of course, that goes along with that. But when I stopped doing that, it kind of lalled for a while, and now it's just, it's back up and it's, you know, it's it it looks completely different now. It's more sort of like what I was talking about with him where it's like, he and I show up for 1 or 2 hours a week, but we get a lot done during that time it's more focused. It's more relaxed, and it's more, representative of how I really feel, you know. For sure. And I don’t know, my process now is I try and just make music in different settings. So it's like, I go to a coffee shop. And I’m like what do I make here. Or I’m at the airport. What do I make here? You know, and then I sort of write in different places and then I take it home, and I write a little bit more, you know, I write it, you know, what does it sound like if I write at two in the afternoon versus, you know, 11:00 PM or, you know, just. A little data study. yeah. It's fun. Yeah. And you find that that flow is producing the quality of tracks and things that you’re. Yes. Yeah. And you know, more recently the other thing was, is, you know, when I was, when I was taking a lot of Adderall and trying to work, there was not a lot of, new methods coming in. And now there are like, I'm totally open to trying new things, or I, you know, we'll see a TikTok video where someone, you know, decide to take a whole break and, you know, put it in simpler, in Ableton and then automate the start point of the break from zero to, you know, 100 and, 27 and then automate it like in this weird way. And I'm like, sure, I'll give that a try. I've never done that. I wouldn't have think, you know, seems almost useless to do it that way. But let's give it a try, you know? And so I'm doing a lot more of experimentation and stuff now too. Yeah. The creativity that you can find on TikTok and YouTube and all of these different things that you'd never try. I want to ask you the same question. How has your process shifted over the years since you've started? And have you found something that's worked that's better than others or. Sure. Yeah, I was just thinking about it like, I guess it was, for the first eight, ten years of my musical journey. I guess I was primarily a turntablist and a dj. So I did things like DMC and stuff back in the day, and at that point I was mainly learning, like I never played instruments before, no musical background before that, and I was having to learn stuff like music theory as I went, and I mainly learned by just showing up every day and just practicing. And there wasn't much structure because I really didn't have an understanding of how to do that. But I guess it was a combination of the showing up and then also jamming with people and learning, which is essentially like a form of collaboration, I guess. And then when I got into making beats, after I put scratching stuff to bed for a little bit, I is similar of trying to work out more and more about the software and the process of composition, really, and arrangement, all that sort of stuff as well. And collaborating with. I was very fortunate that from the get go, I was able to collaborate with people with a lot of experience who were willing to show me things, and so it's really been in the last like 2 or 3 years where I have a good overview of the different parts of the production process, like gluing mixed sounds and stuff like that, where I feel confident that I can do the the bulk of things, on my own. So it's. Yeah, again, a mixture of showing up and just like, practicing and making things and then jamming with other people, showing what I know, receiving some information back, all that sort of stuff. But yeah, in terms of, like, tips and tricks and stuff like that, I would say if you can do that, some sort of structure to your process. So. Which is so hard for creative people. Yeah, like with. It can be, yeah. Like with my like turntable students these days when I teach I always suggest like if you can, if you have half an hour, we’re doing ten minutes of something focused like a technique or something. So it could be the same for production, ten minutes of like jamming that out and then ten minutes of improvization, and mixing and matching stuff you already can do. So. Quick 30? Yeah. Quick 30, because otherwise particularly with that, you're going into muscle memory quite a lot and you might keep your, the chops you already know how to do fresh and tight, but you're not necessarily learning anything on top. And same with production I try maybe trying to push to learn a new technique or try a plug in in a different way or something just to experiment with it. And that might be the thing that. Copy work also, I think copy work is a really underrated way. Breaking breaking down something. Yeah. Like that already exists, to see how it works. Like you really like a song and you want to make songs like that. You can go in and try and recreate it yourself. It doesn't have to be released, but by doing, by doing copy work of another song, you understand a lot of the style. And then. Yeah. I like doing that a lot too. That help me with. How close have you gotten? What’s that? How close have you gotten? I mean, I can get right there. Really? Yeah. But but, you know, But again, that's just that's just behind the scenes. Right. It’s not for anything that I'm making. I just think like, oh, this sounds really cool. How do I do this? Yeah. And then doing that exactly as it's been done. But that's sort of like it, you know, it's another color in your. Yeah. Brain box or whatever. Particularly the start I found that really useful for learning like how to do drum programing without previously done, doing anything like that before or just learning about song arrangements and song structure, and then some sound design stuff as well from tutorials and things. And the more different things I would look at, the more things I could draw from. So I wouldn't be like replicating something my own work like as overtly. But they might be. Oh yeah, maybe that kick pattern, if I change this bit and this bit, and this bit, and then try a few different things. That’s how all these different ideas started. Yeah. For sure. I mean, the technology that has come out, especially since you were talking about making beats in 98. Yeah. Holy shit, what a time to be alive. Completely changed. Yeah, yeah. Do you find that the learning of new technology and the like, I mean, even Ableton 12, I started at Ableton 11, so I didn't have that long to go. I started on Ableton four. I tend to not gravitate towards, you know, a gear focused, production style. I know some people that, that, that, that is a big you know, part of their focus. And sometimes buying something new does open up a new process for you because it works a little bit differently. But. So you’re less gear focus? Very much so. Wow. I'm very much in the box VSTs. I like, you know, VSTs. Again, some of them are just rearrangements of some of the same effects, you know, in different ways. But, and there's nothing wrong with VSTs or gear or anything. It's just for me I don't rely too much on, on the gear. Yeah. Are you a gear guy? I'm. I'm probably in between, like, I. When I first started, I was buying a lot of hardware because I thought that's. What you did. Yeah, it was what you did and a good way to learn. Like how how synthesis works and stuff. But these days, I'm all in the box, pretty much and. Because you're traveling both so much. Right. And that's the that's the other thing about software. It's a lot lighter. Totally. Yeah. Well, I think we've. Yeah. If there's something I see that is a good idea starter and helps me write in a different way. If I get stuck in my usual patterns and I can bring in something different, that is going to really switch up and give me that extra boost of inspiration, I like using those, but, I've kind of learned how to use like a few things, like a few compressors really well, I don't really. And this is like a game changer thing that comes out that has a really specific sound that is really inspiring. I'm happy with the ones I already know how to use. But it's more those like more creative tools. Like those idea starters, those idea tools. It really takes a lot. And especially when you are in the tinkering headspace of this, it's not just hitting the cue button and dancing around with the pyro. Right, right. It's an actual intricate weaving of sound and noise. That is, if you fuck it up, it will not sound good. Right, yes. Right. I'm working. Right, excuse me, can you not look at me? I’m working. Turn around. How about you? Would you say that you're more of the producer or the performer? Where do you fall in that? I kind of done both because I spent so long doing. You went up on the table? Doing cartwheels. Yeah, I make a really good cake. Yeah, right. Yeah. No. I spent so long, like, practicing and developing, like, the performance side of deejaying with scratching and stuff like that was, I was obsessed with it. That is very performative. Yeah. And I've done live shows in the past for different projects, and, but again, that's kind of different as well because that's like musicianship rather than showmanship, I guess, because I guess they interweave. Yeah. But. Different though, that’s true. Yeah. I've always been more like, I want people to be able to dance and enjoy it by closing their eyes, you know? But but also if they want to see what's going on and being seeing it being performed is that too. Take a peek. Yeah. Open your eyes. Yeah. Take a peek. Yeah, I guess ultimate. Ultimately it's like I. Yeah. If you close your eyes. Are people having fun? And to me, maybe it's, not hypocritical. My brain's a bit dead, I can't remember the right word. You did just get off of a flight. It is, what, 5 a.m. in London? Yeah, but, I can’t think of the right word right now. But, maybe it's not what you’d expect. Like, like for me, like, if it's what comes out of the speakers that matters. And if people are hyped by someone throwing cake and they that that makes sense within that, that's as good a job as like, I'd rather the, I'm trying to think of a good analogy. The cake was baked well, there we go, then someone just trying to throw so much icing on. We've done crazy techie stuff all the time, and the actual foundation of the cake is. It makes sense. I get it. Tastes horrible. I copy that, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it is a balance for one of those things where because, you know, I you know, the other thing is, is I never when I first started making and releasing music, I was never intending to be performing it. That was something that came along as an opportunity that I felt that I should follow through on. Yeah. Because it was an opportunity. But I remember. So your music preceded you. It was out in the world, and then they were like, you got to get up here. Well because laptop shows weren't really viable. Right? Before you know, a certain point. Yeah. And then they became viable. And then people started booking them. And then they wanted to book me and I didn't really know what to do live. And I love I've always loved electronic music, but I remember seeing, a band called plaid, which is, you know, electronic music. And I remember thinking it was a pretty boring show because, you know, visually. It’s laptop. Right? When they’re, they had all this hardware and stuff, all set up, you know, it was very static. You know, stage production in 2004 is not it was not what it is now. And I remember thinking, you know, I did I enjoyed myself, but it was, you know, pretty, pretty boring. And so in terms of what to do live, you know, you can kind of break it down any way that you want. But for myself, like, I just. Yeah, I kind of sit still. It has been interesting seeing, like, the change. I mean, I mean, there've been stages with the djs on them, on fest, on a festival level for since, like, at least the 90s, probably before. Yeah. But, I can remember playing This Isn't Me Old Man Shouting at a Cloud or anything like that, but like, like I remember, like, one of the first places I used to play out was this basement club, and the dj booth was in, like the cloak room where you'd put your, jackets and stuff. So I would, I would be deejaying facing a brick wall, and the dancefloor was out that way. Just peeking out. You had to look over this. Do you like it? This stable door basically to, to to see if people liked it. Yeah. So. That's kind of awesome. Just set up a mirror. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah a little present situation. Yeah, and like so ultimately like the only thing that mattered was, are people dancing. They're still dancing. Cool. And it was all about like just playing the right record at the right time for me is the foundation of what deejaying is. It's the same in the UK now. I think it happened a little bit more over here first and then, maybe traveled across. Of stages. Of stages and everything being centered around watching someone mix. Right, it is so focused on. Yeah, the dj now. Yeah, yeah. But for a lot of like even that like dj dj of mixing stuff, it's visually it's not that interesting to watch. Like if someone's doing really slow blends, but they're beautifully done and they're just slowly e-quing stuff that's not very fun to watch, but it's a it's a proper job and someone's doing a lot of work there, and there's a lot of arguments about whether that needs to be on a stage. And what would it be better if they were in that kind of stable door. Yeah. Boof cupboard. Yeah. And, and then the audience would be facing each other again, which is what, what I used to experience at that club. Yes. Rather than all looking at you for a thing. Yeah. It kind of applies a pressure for how. Performative. Yeah, how performative you are. And how and how I mix. Like, if I'm playing how I mix on radio or studio mix. First time mixing at the club is very different. I mix a lot faster live. I'm doing a lot more tricks and things because people are watching and I want to entertain them. And yeah, I play different music, all sorts of stuff because of that whole set up. So we went on a big tangent, but. No it's perfect. It's tough sometimes too, because, you know, there's another thing culturally now where I feel like there's so, there are many producers who are making things with the live. The live show is maybe the only thing they have in mind. And so that's sort of like what's feeding it is they're imagining dramatic moments in the song and how they mix it in. Pyro. But like kind of only that. Yeah, even down to how it's recorded. So it can be captured. Yes. For a moment for right marketing. And that, even that way of thinking, I think has sort of altered some of the live setting as well, because I don't always consider that first, you know, what, if I'm making a song like, I'm not always thinking. About the pyro. Of what it would sound like on the world's largest stage in front of every single person. You know, I don't think of it like that. Right. Because electronic music has. It's a huge spectrum. Yeah. It's massively popular in these live settings. You know, where all this money is in these festivals and stuff and, you know, these high impact fonts and lasers and all this. But some of the best moments I've had with electronic music have been intimate times, just in my headphones by myself, you know, and it's like, I need to speak to that level of things too. And it's like. Got to think about the feels man. Yeah, the feels and I'll give, because that's. Absolutely, It's me up there. Yeah, yeah. You know, not perfect. You know, I made this for you, but, you know that like, and it's not. And not everything has to be. That's another thing with production. Now I'm just now an old man yelling at a cloud, but, not everything has to be tuned. Perfect. Yes. It doesn't have to be. Needs to be human. Maximal, right. We're losing the human. Sometimes songs have dynamics that go in and out that are sort of loud and sort of soft. That's okay. It needs to be okay. Yes, yes. If it fits the vibe of the song that everything needs to be blasted up and so, that's one of those elements of. And the other thing is, is when because there are so many artists that are doing that at full volume, full production, full whatever, if you, come up next to them, even a little bit, you know, ten, 20% softer, it's as if it doesn't even reach some people, some audiences. They are so overstimulated. Can’t react. Right they’re, they’re used to a certain amount of, you know, volume and light. And if you if you come short of that, it's as if you almost don't exist. And I think that that's, you know, a sort of rubbing of the senses for audiences that is maybe not necessarily good for everybody. Yeah. That expression, what is it if you ain't read lining and you ain't headlining? Yes, yes. For real. And it's like it's like a joke, but then it's like, but nope. But for real. Exactly. Just blowing people's eardrums. Right. I completely agree. And, the conversation came up earlier about, you know, especially in rave culture, you're having a lot of people who are doing drugs and things that are opening their minds up, and then they're getting overly stimulated with this, like, crazy sound with all of these crazy things. Do you guys factor things in when you're mixing music and when you're blasting people like, are you like, it crosses my mind, is, is my point. And I'm, my question to you is when you're thinking about the audience's experience of how you want them to hear your music, what is the goal? Like what do you want your audience to feel to experience at your shows? Like what are you trying to get them to experience? I think for myself, more so lately, and this has become this has come to the surface more in the past few years for me. In reference to like, everything that we were, I was just talking about. But I know that there are people electronic music. They and that it exists in clubs and they go to clubs sort of begrudgingly, because socializing can be hard because it is very stimulating. I, I'm completely overstimulated at a club with people around with lights and loud music, I can it's hard for me. So I think for some of the things that I want to put out while I'm up there, it's for anybody who's a little uncomfortable, you know, this is for them, too, you know, like. You know, that that's also me. So. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Yeah. For real, yeah. And how about you? However people want to enjoy or experience music, I play and stuff is, like, completely fine by me. like, I, I, I personally, I don't drink, I don’t take drugs. So that's something you, you have to remind yourself, like. Oh, yeah. Like people were in a certain state. Maybe we should keep that in mind. Sometimes I catch myself doing that because quite often, particularly when touring, I'm tired. So I'm drinking coffee or energy drinks or something to keep myself going. And I have, I guess like a style of playing that's quite fast. That I have to remind myself, I don't maybe need to mix as fast sometimes because I'm going faster and faster, especially more energy drinks are going through me, right. There's, there’s this. It just keeps going. I'm like, I think I gradually like, want to create, like I want it to be really exciting and fun, basically. And, maybe sometimes I have to kind of remind myself to I'm always reading the room, but like, think about that particular element of reading the room sometimes. But yeah, like, basically however anyone wants to enjoy it they can. Yeah. For me like I'm, it’s not. For sure. Yeah. And it's the 140 bpm. So that's usually like the harder the crowd that wants to just be really kind of dancing. Yes. In their body and really like feeling something. Do you find that, people are you said that people are looking more towards the stage now with all of this culture. In your dream world, people are dancing towards each other and is it a disco ball? Is it a dark room? Like what are what's the environment that you want? I think it's I mean, I think in terms of ideal stage production, and I've thought about doing this, but I there is something that I would like to do on a large scale that kind of can’t be done, which is intimacy, you know, like, I like intimate moments, but it's kind of you can't do that to. In a large. Ten thousand people. Theater. They're they're opposites. And I think, one environment that I think we're thinking about is, being a movie theater, you know. Interesting. Cinematically, you're all there together, you're all enjoying it, but kind of, you know, more static, you're all having, you know, you're all observing the same thing. But the mood in a, in a movie theater is very different than the mood is, on a huge stage, for sure. So you're incorporating the visual elements and you're talking about using the screen. Yeah, yeah. People are sitting in this experience? No standing, it’s a concert, but but more of that, sort of, you know. It's like the auditorium style. Put away their phones, you know, they all, you know, sort of a little more locked in. yeah, we're still working that part out. But there's definitely, like a plan of it being really immersive and almost like narrative. So for that, we would want people looking, I guess for me, outside of like doing a show, show like that. All right. My favorites are like basement clubs where the booth is on the same level, or maybe, maybe one step, right. So you can. Very Boiler Room. Yeah. So you can kind of read the room really well, but you're not like on like a podium. You can everyone's on the same level and you can really feel it. And like UK crowds in particular are super vocal in that environment. It’s just super fun basically. And like, especially if you're in like a, like a 100 cap basement or something and the audience really know what you're about. I like that too. Yeah. Everyone knows the tracks. I was going to say, what's your favorite size audience? Yeah, like I would say between 150 and 200 is. Perfect. Where I've always traditionally done I feel I've played the best, I feel the best about it. But then that part of that is because I'm right there with them. You know, on the larger stages that I've played with, there's so many layers of separation. I don't know. Yeah, Why is deejaying the thing or producing music? Why is that the thing that you chose to do above everything else? I think there's that kind of like cliche of like, I have to do it kind of kind of thing. But I remember like the first time I heard, like, scratching was like, like I said that the way I got into electronic stuff, I just wanted to know how to do it. And I started researching it and it became this. I think it's learning more and more and that it's endless. Whether it's someone who's like a singer songwriter and learning more and more ways of expressing, one's emotions and experiences or if someone writes instrumental music, I'm learning different ways of composing that. It's kind of the same. Like, are you always learning? And that's what makes it fun. And it's and getting to experience different things. Like, like new collaborations. Yeah. All this sort of stuff like it's it's just like and I endless fun sounds pretty cheesy but like but like like in terms of there's just so many different opportunities to try different forms of creativity. Yeah. And that, you know, I also there's a, there's a, there's a layer of it was a level of like flow state. Yeah. That happens when you're when you're really working where you forget like who you are and you know what you're doing, like all these things drop away and that, you know, I experience that with, you know, I'm an illustrator as well. So I experience that when I'm drawing and I experience that when I'm working on music where it's like, I forget, like everything just kind of goes away and you get into this flow state that feels really good. And but yeah, that continuing interesting, intriguing challenges, you know, I, I've also it's, you know, a lot of, a lot of people's biggest fear is like public speaking, I guess, like just getting up in front of people. And, one of my big fears for a long time was flying. But I found that, like, when I was flying to play shows, like, I was able to do that more confidently because I knew why I was doing it. There was like purpose in that and. Got to get there. I continue to find purpose in, in, in continuing to make music and release it and perform it. I don't feel nervous before getting on stage. I feel great confidence in ways that like, I don't feel in other areas of my life or I don't think I have ever felt, you know, I just love doing that. That's amazing. And the last question that I want to ask is, how did you each come up with your dj names? Okay. So, okay, I know how you came up with yours, because that’s his name. Yeah, mine is going to be way less interesting. Jon 1st. John 1st is my real name. Yes. It’s just a. Just spelled different. Yeah. So I, I did not know what to name myself. And I was putting up songs on Myspace. That's actually how I got discovered too was like, like posting songs on Myspace, but I. Wow! I was trying to come up with names, and every time I was trying to come up with these names and they all sounded like, you know, when you're trying to think of something, you want to make yourself sound good. And it was bothering me. I was like, I feel like I'm bragging in this way or this way when I'm trying to name myself this stuff. So I posted a bulletin, a Myspace bulletin asking people for name suggestions. No way. And there was a band that I liked out of Virginia, called Pincher Attack. I'm sure they're not around anymore, but they replied, and one of the names that they suggested was just Mux Cool Mool. And I took out the Cool part because, again, I was like not trying to. Didn't want to be too egotistical about it, but I really liked the name Mux Mool. I thought that sounded great. So I just started with that. And then that was the name that I had on my Myspace page when I first got discovered. And then I stuck with it, because all the meaning that's wrapped up in that I've been able to apply to it by, you know, just doing the work. And it's also been absolutely great for, search engine optimization because if you name yourself something, that's all. You know, if I was to name myself Mortal Kombat, your not going to get results for me. Never. You know. But, Mux Mool, those aren't really words, so it just, if you search for me. Genius. You can find me that that was not my plan. But it turned out it worked out. Genius. Truly. Yeah. Just make your own words more or less to. Yeah. And you own it. Yeah. Thank you so much, Mux Mool. John 1st. I'm Danger Foley. Thank you for watching the Danger Den podcast. We're out of here. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.