Old Man Lunch: Episode 1: What Old Man Lunch is all about

Old Man Lunch is a podcast about three old friends, the twist is that one of us, Matt Allen, was recently diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimer's at 55.

​Our goal is to provide a deep look into how Alzheimer’s impacts Matt's life as well as his family, friends, wife, and children. We want to talk about the daily challenges, frustrations, and believe it or not, freedoms (Matt’s words), that Alzheimer’s has brought into his life

In this episode, our first, we are looking at what we want to get out of this podcast and how talking about his diagnosis, both on this podcast and in other settings, helps Matt deal with the anxiety that comes with Alzheimer's.

We also discuss future episode ideas, support groups, and where Matt is his happiest.  

​Join us for some laughing, some crying, and some brutal honesty about what early-onset Alzheimer's does to Matt, his family, friends, and caregivers. 

This podcast will be rated explicit due to swearing, and possible sexual content as well as dealing with sensitive subjects such as religion, atheism, death, and fatal diseases. It will be both emotional and funny if everything goes to plan. 

Check www.oldmanlunch.org for more details on us, Alzheimer's, and the podcast.

Bluesky: @oldmanlunch.bsky.social
Instagram: @oldm.lunch

Transcript

Cast of Characters in the podcast:

 Laia: Matt’s wife

Naia: Matt’s daughter

Thean: Matt’s son

Mark Vallet: Hello, everyone, this is Mark Vallet, Matt Allen, and Brad Nilles with Old Man Lunch, a podcast about Alzheimer's and old friends. We're coming to you from our studio in Eagle, Colorado, which also serves as my dining room. In March 2023, Matt was diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimer's at the age of 54, and our goal is to record his progression through the disease for as long as we can, while also making some great memories and having some fun.
 
This is episode number one, recorded on December 6th, 2024.
 
 Mark Vallet: Before we get going, I want to give a quick intro as to what Old Man Lunch is all about and how we got here.

 You know those groups of old men you see sitting around a table having breakfast, lunch, or just sipping a coffee or beer and chatting with the other old men at the table? That's an Old Man Group, simply a group of old men meeting on a regular basis for lunch, breakfast, dinner, or whatever.

These groups can be small, or large, meet daily, weekly, monthly, or even just a few times a year. I think it's the getting together that defines it for me. I've been interested in Old Man groups for a long time in an envious way. I always want to stop by that familiar spot for lunch and a couple of beers gathering with a few close friends once a week or month.

I imagine that many of our conversations would revolve around health issues, local nonsense, and the occasional political argument. While also keeping up to date on their families and mutual friends, there would also be some boozy weekends and ski trips for as long as that was physically possible.

 I knew I would want an Old Man Group when I was older. I'd even talked to my wife about it, pointing out examples when we were out to eat. But I figured that I wasn't quite an old man just yet. I was 56 and we had two kids. One was 16 and the other was 12. I was an old parent for sure, but not quite an old man.

 I imagined gathering up my Old Man Group when I hit my early sixties, 65 at the latest. 

 And then Matt called.

Matt was one of my oldest and closest friends. I've known him since high school. We both grew up in Dubuque, Iowa, met in high school, and our friendship has endured through college, living together for a summer, marriages. Matt was actually my best man. Divorce, both of us got divorced. Dating, world travel, kid, houses, the deaths of family and friends, and countless other life events. We've also had a couple of falling outs over the years, but all in all, Matt has been my closest friend for most of my life.

 We now lived about an hour apart in Colorado, saw each other a few times a year, and started going on a ski trip every season about four years ago. Brad was our third on the ski trips, and these trips have become important to all of us. We'd ski some fantastic resorts, had some great meals, conversations and boozy nights. Matt, Brad and I were already a sporadic Old Man Group, but most of our gatherings related to skiing.

 Matt calling was never the best of signs. He usually texted, in most cases a phone call was bad news, and this call would be no different.

 Our first ski trip, which happened in 2020, right before COVID had been to Revelstoke in Canada. It was one of my favorites, but it was also the first time I clearly remember Matt talking about memory problems. He wasn't sure what was going on but was having issues recalling things. He said he would try to remember something, and it would just drift away, the memory dissolving before he could grab it.

 I don't remember the context of the joke but at some point, we talked about the financial lucrativeness of an anal bead vending machine. When we a callback to the joke the next day. Matt had no idea we were talking about it, even after some clues were provided. I remember thinking, How the fuck do you forget about an anal bead vending machine? The product itself is memorable and now it's in a vending machine. How does that slip your memory?

It was October 20, 23 when Matt called with a definitive diagnosis. The doctor had finally ordered a spinal tap, which was the gold standard in an Alzheimer's diagnosis. It had come back glaringly positive. They gave him eight years. From what I've read online, that is about average. But life expectancy can range anywhere from 3 to 20 years.

Early onset Alzheimer's. Is anyone under the age of 65 so at 55, when Matt was diagnosed, he was on the early side of early onset. I hung up the phone and cried. I not only mourned my friend's diagnosis and what it meant for him, his wife, mother, brother, children, family and friends but also for the years that would be robbed from our friendship. In the very back of my mind, I mourned my future old man growth, which would hardly seem right without Matt.

While I am aware that any of us can die at any time due to an illness, accident or other incident, when you put a timeframe on someone's life, it tends to bring things into focus and focus I did. I'm not going to lie. I freaked out a bit and possibly overreacted, if that can be a thing in these types of situations

I immediately got to planning. We now had a jam, 20 years of Old Man Lunches, ski trips and other fun into eight years. We talked about skiing in Japan, Machu Picchu for some reason, Spain, Alaska, parties back in Dubuque with all of our hometown friends, ski weekends in Colorado and other adventures I've already forgotten.

My overplanning extended to others as well. Whenever I talk to mutual friends of ours, I told them what was going on and encouraged them, rather forcefully in some cases, to get in touch, make plans and see Matt or talk to him as soon and as often as they can. I was adamant and a little assholey.

I also decided that Old Man Lunches could no longer wait. Now is the time, and each month that passed was one less lunch I could have with my oldest and closest friend, which is how we ended up here.

So, it's been a year or so since we found out about Matt's diagnosis. And while we have had several Old Man Lunches, we're going to take it up a notch this year, meeting more often and doing this podcast, which will likely add a little structure to things and hopefully serve as a record for our children to look back on someday.

Just to be clear, this is not just a podcast about Alzheimer's. We'll be covering a number of topics as well as simply talking about our lives and what is going on in the world. When I look forward, I imagine we will talk about Alzheimer's a lot with some episodes dedicated to just Matt's disease and its impact. I would like a reckless level of honesty about Alzheimer's and how it is impacting Matt and those around him. We'll certainly be trash talking Alzheimer's, and I hope to have medical experts, friends, family and other Alzheimer's patients as guest

One other topic that I would like to dive into is the importance of friendships at all ages, which is something that falls right into the Old Man Lunch wheelhouse. I'd like to hear from other Old Man Groups out there about how they formed, what they discuss and do for fun, as well as tips on how to get your own old man or old lady group going

According to the Surgeon General, there's a loneliness epidemic in this country and I believe Old Man Lunches or Old Lady Lunches may be able to help a bit so expect some episodes that revolve around that topic.

Finally, we will talk about anything else we find interesting, which can be pretty varied. Anal bead vending machines and the suspicion that horses may indeed be aliens from outer space living amongst us could certainly come up. 

One last note, we are not professionals, so there will be all kinds of mistakes made. But our main goal is just to be honest and real. Which sounds real hokey because it is. All right. Let's get to Brad.
 
 Brad is also from Dubuque. There are a lot of us in Colorado. While I knew Brad vaguely in high school, we were not really friends. I'm sure I ran into him in a few parties or on the local ski hill, but that was probably about it. Our friendship started much later in life, in our mid-forties, when we stepped outside to smoke a joint at a remembrance party in tribute to a high school friend who had died. We exchanged information and started skiing together that winter.
 
 Several hikes, lunches and concerts later, our friendship was cemented. In 2019, I was attempting to get an annual ski trip together. Brad was a yes almost immediately, and Matt joined at the last minute, literally a week or two before we were leaving. This would be the start of our little trio, which has now been on five ski trips as well as a number of hikes, drives, lunches, concerts and boozy weekends. Brad has turned into a very close friend for both Matt and I, and he is also one of the nicest people you will ever meet.
  

Mark: I thought it would be a good idea to start every episode with some Alzheimer's related content. First, I'd like to do a check in with Matt to see what has changed in his world since we were last together. Secondly, as I've been doing research for the podcast, I've come up with a list of questions for Matt, and I would like to ask a couple of them at the start of each episode. These questions range from fairly routine to highly personal, emotionally charged questions, but I'm confident Matt would deal with them as honestly as possible, which I think is the real value here, not only for other early onset patients, but for Matt's family and friends as well.

Finally, I would like to read a couple statistics about Alzheimer's at the beginning of each episode, as I've been truly astounded by the numbers as I've done my research. 
 
I'm hopeful that most episodes will have a theme but be prepared for some random nonsense. For today, we're going to talk about what we would like from the podcast and what listeners can expect to hear. 

Okay, let's get started. 

Mark: I'd like to start with a couple of Alzheimer's statistics. These are both from the 2020 for Alzheimer's disease. Facts and figures report, which is put out by the Alzheimer's Association. 

“An estimated 6.9 million Americans, age 65 and older, have Alzheimer's dementia. It is estimated that approximately 200,000 Americans under the age of 65 have younger onset Alzheimer's.” 

Just like Matt. 

Between 2020 and 2024, the number of deaths from Alzheimer's disease in the U.S. as recorded on death certificates more than doubled increase in 141%, while deaths from the number one cause of death in the United States, heart disease decreased 2.1%.

As I edited the first and second episodes, I noticed numerous issues. I'm a loud talker, and I tend to interrupt, and talk over people I also talked to fast. Brad doesn't talk enough, and Matt probably needs to be closer to the mic. 

However, the major issue with these first two episodes is that I was unorganized. When we were recording, we would wander off topic and never come back, which led to patchy results at best, which is why these first two episodes will skip around and more than likely have an intro from me before we start talking as we move from subject to subject. I hope to solve these issues in future episodes, so please keep coming back. We can only get better.

 Now. Let's check in with Matt. 

 Each episode, we'll do a quick check in with Matt to see if anything has changed since our last podcast. This will be a time for Matt to update us on any new symptoms or other issues that have cropped up since we last talked. 

Mark: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, a little over a month since we talked.

Matt: It probably hasn't changed much. But you know. Maybe a little degradation. Laia, my wife is super honest. She’s like, no you're declining, I’m like oh thanks so much.

Mark: I don’t want that much honesty, go fuck yourself.

Matt: And I'll ask Naia, I’m like, what do you think over the last month, how am I doing? She's like, I don't know. You're pretty much the same, I guess. Or maybe a little worse. Hm.

Mark: As I mentioned earlier, I plan on asking Matt a couple of questions at the beginning of each episode. These questions will vary, but we'll always deal with some aspect of Alzheimer's. 

When recording this episode, my questions were a bit garbled, which is why me asking the question now will sound a bit different. It was recorded later. Matt's answers are from our episode recording. 

Question one. Have you ever gotten lost since a diagnosis? As in you suddenly realized you were not sure where you were at
Matt: I don't think my orientation is still the same, but I haven't been where am I kind of thing now?

Mark: And this one I ask you at dinner to think about. Have you been surprised by how people have reacted to the diagnosis? Has anyone pulled away from you or gotten closer that you wouldn't have expected?

No, not really. I think there's actually there's been more inquiry than anything else. Kind of like, so what does that mean?  I mean, it's just I know for Naia, for example, because she lives at home with me and Theon is now in town, so also the same. They both notice. And when they notice that I'm missing things, they don't want to say anything about it.

So, there's this kind of disconnect between, like, we'll be having a conversation, and I can just see them change when I say something that they don't really understand.

I don't know. I just think that particularly now, because Naia still lives at home, and Thean doesn't, that she fully recognizes that I'm not myself and I've asked her, I'm like so what do you see? And she says, well, you're kind of not really yourself. And I said, well, what does that mean? And she says, I don't know exactly what that means, but it's something like you are gapping a lot is what she said. And I said, you know, I am gapping a lot. I don't remember things. And she said, I know. But there is also feels like I'm not connected to you in the same way that I used to be.
I said, well, I hope that's not true. And she said, but it feels kind of like that.

Mark: That must be hard to hear, you're emotional right now

Matt: Well, it's the same with Laia, she will say, do you remember that we talked about the fact that you were going to go grocery shopping. And I'm like, I forgot.

Mark: You get the groceries? You're the grocery guy?

Matt: Well, she works.

Mark: Oh, I totally understand why you're the guy, but, you know, you have a list.
  

Matt: She makes me a list, and I do a list. But sometimes I still just totally forget it, so I don't know.

 Mark:
Okay, so Naia says she doesn’t feel as connected, does Laia say she doesn't feel as connected. Or that you're not the same person?
 
Matt: I mean, Laia is very clear, and she says, you know, I love you very, very, very much. But yeah, it's very different. My kids, my wife, my ex-wife, my mom, you know, the people that are the closest. I mean, I don't talk to my mom all that often either. But they notice, they notice.

They just came for Thanksgiving, and we all spent time in an Airbnb and, you know, I, I repeat myself. So, a couple of times my mom said, you already said that.

Mark: Does that bother you?
 
Matt: No, I think it's actually good feedback. I mean.

Mark: Would you prefer it if we tell you, I never know what to do. I always wait until it's like the fifth time. And then I say, well, I think we fucking covered that ground. But, you know, I usually wait. I don't ever say it like the first two times. 
 
Where we were. Where were we? I can't remember. You kept asking. Oh, we were back Dubuque for Sandy’s funeral. You kept asking where Bierie was. and I did, I told you about ten fucking times. I was like, Well, he's out of town. 
 
When I eventually said something to you it was because I just want you to be aware you've asked me this. How do you want people to deal with that?

Matt: Like it's up to you, honestly. You know, I'm used to it from the perspective that I know that I don't remember everything, but it's also a little bit of a pain. It's like a little sword that goes in. It's like, oh, there I am again. Yeah, but not from you, but from me. You know, it's more like, how could I possibly forget that? How could I possibly forget that?

Mark: You realize it is a disease, it’s not your fault.

Matt: But at this stage, it's hard to see the disease. I know that it will turn into that. But I still kind of hold myself accountable to be able to remember the things that people have told me and to be able to do the things that I used to be able to do. And maybe that's outdated, but I still do it. The expectation is still there, and I feel bad when I forget when somebody has already said something to me, and I forget about it.

Mark: Well, we're also drinking, I should mention that.

Matt: But yeah, are we?

Mark:  Well, I am. 

Mark: As mentioned before, the recording ended up all over the place. So I cut it into sections that deal with a somewhat specific topic. This first one we are talking about what we hope to accomplish with the podcast and how talking about his diagnosis here and in other settings helps Matt.
 
 Mark: Just to make it clear for everybody, I think we'd like to create something for our children or Matt’s children or everybody's kids, really, to listen to.

Matt: Part of this is for education and part of it is for process as well. Right? 

Mark: Does it help talking about it? I did read some things that said that they thought that maybe talking about it in a general basis, like maybe helps with this kind of stuff.

Matt: I would completely agree.

Mark: So, you feel this helps you a little. You know, you feel it'll be good.

Matt: I think it's good. Yeah.  Most definitely, because like I said, with most people, it's kind of like, you know, they don't want to ask. Again, for a lot of those folks, some are my friends, but some are also the people that I work with.

Brad: People at work ask you questions about it?

Matt: Sometimes, like, how are you doing? I’m like, I'm okay.

Mark: What is your standard response? Is that it? I'm okay.

Matt: Yeah. That I'm okay. And it's not easy.

Mark: Yeah, I would imagine it's not easy.

Mark: I think Matt made an excellent point at the beginning of that section. This podcast is absolutely about supporting others with Alzheimer's, but in a way, it also feels like it is becoming part of Matt's process for dealing with the disease, or at least the anxiety that comes with it. 

He said more than once when we were recording these episodes that it helps to talk about it, and he seems generally excited about the podcast and eager to share his journey. We will see if that changes as we go forward. But for now, I think this podcast is a net benefit for Matt.

It's not just us that Matt talks to. He attends a support group that meets in Boulder and feels that has been a major help resulting in some of his most productive conversations about the disease.
 
 Matt: First of all, people checking in and then just kind of sharing like the confusion or sharing the challenges that they're having, whoever they might be and maybe I have already said this, but in the group that I'm in, I am by far the youngest person.

 There's a moderator and they're kind of just they do a presentation about what Alzheimer's is, etc. And then we have a conversation between all of us. And I made one very good close friend with a woman named Sammy. She's like, maybe 78 years old. And we went out for lunch for a couple of times, and we had really good conversations, like we're kind of in the same place.
 
 Mark: Oh, so you're about the same.

Matt: We in the same place in terms of that our progression.

Mark: Do you feel that helps?

Matt: Oh, it totally helps, absolutely. Those conversations are probably better than anything I've ever had with a doctor or with anybody in my family because they're kind of outside of the pod, so to speak. So, there's not all of the emotion and things with like with Naia or Laia or Thean or with my mom and Billie. So, in those it's just kind of like raw. It's way rawer, we share, I think, a lot more in that group than any other place that I share.

Matt: I mean, because everybody else has the same experience. We go around in a large group, and everybody sort of checks in. Sometimes the partners are there as well, who are also checking in about the experience of living with somebody who has impaired memory and or forgetfulness or no longer able to kind of hold the responsibilities that they used to be able to hold in the in the household, etc.

Mark: Are most of the people in that group roughly your stage or are some of them well beyond it now?

 Matt: I would say they're mostly at the same stage. If they're even showing up to that group, it means they're still know. Th still able to kind of comprehend that they have something as opposed to not knowing.
But again, everyone in that group is probably 20 years older than me. There's nobody in my in my same age group, which is kind of curious. But we share a lot of sensibilities as well. 

I will say that the group was really super helpful when they have another one because they will have another one sometime in the near future. It's good because you're like with a bunch of people who exactly know what the fuck are you're feeling.
 
Mark: We also talked about journaling and how reading other Alzheimer patients journals online may or may not help.

Have you looked into what's coming down the pike or are you sort of ignoring it?

Matt: No, I haven't. I definitely have not ignored it. I have read a lot of stuff. I mean, it debilitates you. Yeah. So, I know that. I mean, I don't need to dig into the details.

Mark: Yeah don't, because I have. It's upsetting me.

Matt: I know it's not pretty, that's for sure.

Mark: We were talking and the tiny house thing, and I cut you off for some reason. I asked some other question, but you were talking about there are, like, journals of Alzheimer patients, you can read, and you were going to start talking about that. And then I don't know what the fuck I was drunk. I cut you off for some reason about something else. But anyway, so what about that? Do you still read those? Do they help?

Matt: It doesn't make me feel one way or the other. I mean, I think I'm still young enough and or hopeful enough that it doesn't necessarily mean that that happened. It doesn't happen to everybody.

Mark: I'm not saying everything's going to happen to everybody. I'm not but do you still read that or is that a one-off kind of thing?

Matt: Well, we have family and Elders at WindHorse(where Matt works)they have all kinds of notes and stories about the folks and how they have gone and how they haven't gone.

It's kind of 50/50. Some people kind of go and get to a certain point and they're very completely flowered and happy about who they are and where they are, and some people are just psychotic and out of their fucking minds. So, you don't know, you don't know how you're going to be as an Elder when you lose your mind.

Matt: I think I'm going to probably be pretty flowery as opposed to.

Mark: You seem more hippy than angry. But I think the guy talks about it with as far as like rage and anger is more so that he gets extremely frustrated about the things he can't do or remember.

Matt: I can appreciate that, and I can see how that could turn into a monster. 
 

Mark: He goes around, he said, it comes and goes, and some of it is just his brain just being, you know, he just gets angry about something or whatever. Apparently, rage is a stage of Alzheimer’s.

 Matt: I haven't experienced much of that at all. I mean, I get depressed. I can get sort of like anxious and angry, but not like over the top.

 Mark: We then moved on to future episode ideas and discussed what you can expect to hear as we move forward. 
 
Okay. So, I think we'll talk a little bit about some maybe future episodes. These are episode ideas I had, and we will ask Matt and Brad to come up with some episode ideas. If there are any listeners and you have any ideas for episodes or questions, we would love to hear them. 

Some of the episode ideas I had were I think we would have an episode with Laia and your kids to talk about how they're doing.
 
Matt: For sure, how they're doing and what they see.

Mark: Yes, the differences they see and how it's impacted their lives as well, because this will also have obviously a massive impact on Laia as it progresses.

Matt: And Naia and Thean.

Mark: Obviously everybody, but in the end, Laia is really going to be your main caregiver. I also thought we can also do one about support groups. You know, I know you're in a support group and I would like to talk about does that help. An episode about work, how it's impacted your hours, salary, you’re still doing your job well?

I thought we could do one called, Inside Matt’s mind. You could describe what a typical day feels like or, you know, what's a good day and what's a bad day and how many bad days you currently have. 

These are all future things, I can't fucking do it all in one episode. Also, an episode about why Americans work more and vacation less because that just irritates me. Insurance and Alzheimer's. So does insurance, we'll get into that again. But does insurance cover most of this or are you paying a lot for this?
 
Matt: We do have insurance and that's through you see UCH Health. And you know, it doesn't cost that much more than me going to a pediatrician or other specialist. So, it doesn't cost a lot.
 
Mark: In the second episode, I think we really got to talk about your medication and your diagnosis.

Matt: Yeah, I will share my medical records.

Matt: I can certainly tell you that in here it says all of the time, most of the generated contrasts, I scored in the extremely low range. Extremely low over and over.

Mark: Does that bother you?

Matt: No, not really.

Mark: I don't even know what half of those things meant.

Matt: They all say extremely low, auditory memory, visual memory.

Mark: But I mean, it's extremely low compared to what somebody that doesn't have Alzheimer's, it’s not like it's extremely low compared to other Alzheimer's people.

Matt: I'm not in competition with other Alzheimer’s patients.

Mark: I got Alzheimer's, the worst.

Matt: At the very bottom, my last visit, which was 11/6/2023, mild early onset Alzheimer's dementia without behavioral disturbance, psychotic disturbance, mood disturbance or anxiety.

Although I would, I would take out the anxiety part. I have a lot of anxiety, so I'll tell him that when I see him again.
 
Mark: Do have a lot of anxiety about what the disease itself or just life?

Matt: Anxiety, just sort of like getting up in the morning and it's like, okay, I'm going to go to work and what do I have to remember? And what did I do yesterday with that client and what did I do with this? You know, and I, I take notes each day, so I have them, but I can't remember. Yeah, I don't actually remember it. I'm depending on myself from yesterday as opposed to myself today.

Mark: Do you trust yourself from yesterday?

Matt: I do, because I read those notes right after, I do it immediately after the meeting so that it's, you know, it's relatively clear what has happened. I think it's about 10 hours that I forget, it’s gone, but then I can go back to my notes, and it doesn't matter because I've already written it.

Mark: Do you take any medication for anxiety or do you just take the Donepezil for Alzheimer’s.

Matt: Yeah. I just take Donepezil and, I have no fucking clue if it's doing anything.

Mark: Finally, to end our inaugural episode, Matt tells us what Alzheimer feels like to him and where he feels is best.

Matt: It's like fucking confusion on top of confusion most of the time.

Mark: Is that what it feels like, I guess it does?

Matt: I mean, the only time where I feel really free is when I'm skiing or when I'm hiking.

I would say that those are the two things that like save me because I can go hiking and I don't think about it at all and I'm with Lucy or I'm with Lucy and Laia and it's great. It's perfect. Uh, because there's no expectation about trying to come up with whatever it is I need to, you know, it's humans that are the problem.
 
 Mark: Yeah, I the skiing thing is, I mean, obviously, you know, it's not the same, but the skiing really, that's where I'm at my best. I really like skiing. Every fucking year I forget. Today was just gorgeous. It just felt so nice. For me, I always feel better and that's like where I am at my best.

Matt: I would agree with that. Skiing and hiking, those are my two.

Mark: I should mention and would like to acknowledge an Alzheimer's podcast, which has certainly influenced me, while also giving me insight into what we would like to accomplish with this podcast. The Forgetting, which is co-hosted by David Shenk, author of the book The Forgetting, and Greg O'Brien, author of On Pluto Inside the Mind of Alzheimer's. Please consider giving it a listen. You can find a link in our episode information. 

So that is it for episode number one. As I mentioned at the beginning of this episode, I am aware of many of the issues that cropped up and hope to fix some of them by episodes three and four. We've already recorded for episode two and I was just as unorganized for that one, so I imagine it will be a bit of a mess as well. All I can say is that we will get better, so keep coming back. Check out www.oldmanlunch.org for more information about us, the podcast, and Alzheimer's, be sure to check out the photos from our first recording session. As always, like download, review, share, or whatever else you do to promote podcast.

Till next time. This is Mark Vallet. Matt Allen and Brad Nilles for Old Man Lunch.

Mark: I'll tell you, the other thing the guy talks about is not having a filter. So, you and I will finally be the same.

Matt: I look forward to that. 

Mark: Yeah, we'll both be assholes to everyone. You won't be the nice guy anymore.