Design Anatomy

From New York Editorials to Sydney Calm With Marcus Hay

• Bree Banfield and Lauren Li • Season 3 • Episode 12

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A childhood New York souvenir turns into a full-blown compass, and for Marcus Hay it points straight to a 20 year creative career in the US. We’re talking Manhattan apartments, the magazine years, and what it’s really like to build visual worlds for major lifestyle brands when the industry shifts under your feet. Now Marcus is back in Sydney, living with a view of a park instead of a brick wall, and he’s entering a new chapter with fresh eyes and a much calmer nervous system.

We chat about how place shapes taste and how your interior style quietly gathers clues from movies, travel and the objects you can’t throw away. Marcus shares a grounded approach to authentic interiors and styling: the reason a home feels “real” is rarely the perfect sofa. It’s the history, the patina, the personal touches and the small architectural oddities that suggest people have actually lived there. If you love layered, colour filled, lived in spaces, this one is packed with practical thinking you can apply to your own rooms and your client work.

We also get honest about the business side: the post GFC budget crunch, the constant flights, the not-so-glamorous hotels, and why slowing down can be the most radical creative decision. Marcus tells us about teaching creative direction and styling, and his new venture Annex 3000 in Alexandria, built around curation, collaboration and more community with less gatekeeping in the design industry.

Please follow along with Marcus Hay on his socials.

@marcushay , @annex.3000, Studio Marcus Hay

If you enjoy Design Anatomy, subscribe for more conversations like this, share the episode with a designer mate, and leave a review so more people can find the show. What part of your home tells your story best?

Bree is now offering a 90-minute online design consult to help you tackle key challenges like colour selection, furniture curation, layout, and styling. Get tailored one-on-one advice and a detailed follow-up report with actionable recommendations—all without a full-service commitment. 

Bookings now open -  Book now

Join Lauren online for a workshop on Thursday May 21st to help break down pricing & fees for 2026! You'll learn: 

  • What has worked for Lauren over the past year
  • What hasn’t worked, and what she has changed
  • The exact fee structure Lauren now uses across all projects

For more info see below

The Pricing Shift: How I Structure My Fees in 2026.

Welcome And Quick Announcements

SPEAKER_03

Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design podcast hosted by friends and fellow designers, me, Bree Banfield.

SPEAKER_01

And me, Lauren Lee, with some amazing guest appearances along the way. We're here to break down everything from current trends to timeless style.

SPEAKER_03

With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces, we're excited to share our insights and inspiration with you.

SPEAKER_01

And before we get started, I just wanted to let any designers that are listening know that I'm starting to open up the conversation circle. So it's like a small group of interior designers. We catch up, we talk about fees, marketing, all of the things in a really small group. So if you're wanting to, I guess that's a really nice connection. Um I'm opening that up soon. So you can just DM me if you want some info. Um, did you have any note today, Brie? No.

SPEAKER_03

Um, I am having hardly any openings left for consultations now. But um please do DM for work later in the year, especially for the bigger projects, because we need to schedule you in now. I feel like the year is gonna disappear. So if you're thinking about working on your home, now is the time to reach out and start making those plans. Um, because before we know it, it's gonna be 2027. Scary.

SPEAKER_01

It happens like that. Oh, I love it.

Meeting Marcus Hay And His Return

SPEAKER_01

Well, today's guest is someone whose work I have admired for a long time. I think I came across Marcus Hay. It must have been like over 10 years ago when I first saw your New York apartment. Maybe it was in real living, and it just really stopped me, and I always remembered it because there's this incredible sense of personality, it's eclectic, it's layered, it's full of colour, vintage pieces, and stories. It felt lived in, not overly styled, but still styled. And you know when something just stays with you, it was just one of those homes. So since then, I have followed your work from afar. I have, and I even included it in one of the projects I was uh a piece I wrote for the design files about apartment living. So Margaret has built and yeah, it was a good few years ago now.

SPEAKER_00

I know. It's gone quick.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so it has gone quick, and it's such a uh well, it's an honor to meet you, and it's a really great reason to uh basically meet you and ask you a bunch of questions. So I'm really excited to meet you. So welcome and thank you for being here. Me too.

SPEAKER_00

Well, thank you, thank you guys uh for having me. I'm super excited.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's so great. So Marcus has built an extraordinary career across New York, LA, and Chicago, working with major lifestyle brands, traveling constantly and shaping visual narratives at a really high level. And now, after nearly two decades in the US, he's back in Australia and entering a new chapter. So I'm really excited to dive into that and your new venture called Annex 3000. So, yeah, welcome, Marcus. This is going to be so fun.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you.

Back In Paddington After Two Decades

SPEAKER_00

Yes, so um, I definitely am uh happy to be back in Australia. I mean, uh, after 20 years away, uh America is a great place, but I'm definitely enjoying the Sydney lifestyle and the the beaches and the swims and you know everything all that good stuff that Sydney has.

SPEAKER_03

Were you living in Sydney?

SPEAKER_00

I live, I well, well actually I live in um Paddington right on uh park called Trumpa Park, which is an old uh cricket ground in um just on the border of Edgecliff and Paddington. And it's I I look out onto the park, so it's like uh gorgeous. It's it's fun, it's really nice to have that, and it's very relaxing to see everyone go about their day and everyone toddling off to work. So climb the stairs to Edgecliffe Station. And it's just um, you know, having looked at virtually brick walls in New York outside my windows for so long, it's uh it's definitely a welcome change.

SPEAKER_03

And did you so were you in Sydney before? Like was that your home before you went to the US? It was.

SPEAKER_00

And um, I really only I had a a short time living here. I I bought the place when I was uh probably in my late 20s, I think. And um, I'm super lucky that I bought into the Sydney market because now it's like uh I kept it all those years. I had very good tenants and they took care of it. And uh so when I moved back to Sydney, I decided to move back into the same space. And it's a it's been a little trippy at times, you know, kind of like um waking up in the same space that you woke up when you were in your 20s and you're like, oh, I'm I'm back.

SPEAKER_01

That'd be like that'd feel like a dream in a way. Like sometimes do you ever ever have dreams of past apartments that you've been in and stuff like that? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's kind of like it's kind of like walk walking the halls, and you're kind of like, oh, it's this feels like a dream, you know. I have little little flashes, flashes of that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Moments back in time. Yeah.

The T Shirt That Sent Him

SPEAKER_01

So can you take us back to that moment? What prompted you to move to the US?

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's it's funny. It it started a long time ago, you know. As a kid, I um my sorry, my auntie and uncle went to New York on a trip. And uh they came back and they gave me, you know, this tiny little t-shirt that I was only about probably nine at the time. And it had like a kind of a big apple on the t-shirt. And it was like a really cool t-shirt. It wasn't just like like one that you would get at the airport, it was kind of like sort of like disco and kind of studio 54-y, and uh and I and I remember saying to my parents, I'm gonna live there one day in the big apple. And so like it's like it really stuck with me. And then um, you know, of course, like all all of us in Australia, we you know, we grew up watching movies that are based in New York and Yeah. And so I finally got there, and um, you know, I I I was in my late twenties at the time, and I just was like, of course, you know, anyone that goes to New York is like, wow, this place is like a living, breathing movie set, right? So um, you know, every corner, every like um per every person that you see, it's like I don't know, it's it's actually kind of dreamlike, speaking of which in itself, you know. So I um I went over and I I did a little bit of work freelance there, and um I got approached by a couple of magazines, and I had been working in magazines a long time in Australia and Sydney, and I got offered two jobs before my vacation finished. So I was like, this is meant to be, you know. So so I went with the job that offered the the location package. Um, and then I just found myself within a couple of months living and breathing in Manhattan. So there you go.

SPEAKER_01

And uh that is amazing. Yeah, and that was 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, 20, more than 20 years ago now.

SPEAKER_02

More than 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, just as you were talking then, that there are so many sort of visuals that come to mind with New York. And when you said, you know, like a t-shirt from New York with a big apple, the first thing that came into my mind is coming to America. Remember how they land in America? The first thing they do is go into this souvenir shop and they kit themselves out from top to toe in New York souvenir memory like clothing. But like, and but then you there's like you know, Seinfeld, and there's like the steam coming up from the great in like there's so many nostalgic things, and then to find yourself over there and to have you know two opportunities to choose from. Like that's it, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I was you know, it's I felt so fortunate because you know, it it's almost like you're I don't life throws you these like um opportunities, right? And I guess I could have been like, I was in a relationship at the time, I could have been like, oh no, I can't break up, I'll I'll stay and you know, I'll be good, a good boy and stay, look after my parents, and then I'm like, hell no, I'm going. So like it's like it's like I I you couldn't get me on the plane quick enough.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that is just yeah, so it started with a t-shirt.

SPEAKER_00

It started all with a t-shirt.

SPEAKER_01

There was some destiny that at play. So when you went on, I still have that t-shirt. I was gonna say, do yeah, I still have it.

SPEAKER_03

I feel like you need to put that in like a frame. That's quite cool.

SPEAKER_00

Actually, that is a really good idea. I don't know why I haven't thought of that before, Brie.

SPEAKER_03

Actually, make an amazing piece of artwork and it's got that whole story behind it.

SPEAKER_01

I have to say, I'm I'm not surprised that you still have it in a sense because I get the feeling of like uh you've got like a sentimental and nostalgic type of um, you know, style with your own home from what I can see. So it's all those collected things which I love. So when you went over there, was that a plan to live over there? Or you sort of said it was like a vacation, or were you just gonna see what happened?

SPEAKER_00

Um originally it was a vacation, and you know, I was there and uh, you know, there's some really great Australians that worked in New York and um or still do. And I guess, you know, it's always the Aussie connection, right? So I um I I obviously, you know, knew them from Sydney or Melbourne previously. So I when I was there, I was like, you know, let's go for a coffee or let's catch up. And just word of mouth, I guess, you know, I mean, we're talking about a time in Sydney and Melbourne, you know, where the design industry in the early 2000s was super strong. And, you know, all the magazines that were produced, like um Vogue Living and Inside Out and Vogue Entertaining and Donna Hay, and they were like the Bibles, you know, for uh for American uh publishing. I mean oh yeah. When I when I first went there, they were like, oh my god, you're Ozzy. Do you know Donna Hay? You know, and I'd be like, Well, we share the same name, and yes, I have worked for her, but I don't I know it sort of no one.

SPEAKER_03

You could have just like pretended, yes, she's my sister. Okay, just let Ruin knows.

SPEAKER_00

I might have done that once once or twice.

SPEAKER_03

I don't blame you.

SPEAKER_00

No, no, it's hilarious. I uh but uh Donna at the time was working with uh Vanessa Holden on the launch of her magazine. And so it was actually Vanessa Holden that offered me the job at uh Reals Real Living magazine. So um I was employed as the style director there. And um I it was such a funny story because I I got there and I was supposed to report to my head of department, and they and they said to me, Oh no, the head of department's left, you're the head of the department now.

SPEAKER_03

That's the first ever. You'd be like, okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I was like, okay. So then so then I had I was like, here's your PA, here's your driver, here's your I was like, this is great.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god. So talk about what era was that of real living?

SPEAKER_00

Like, was that Deb Bibby or Um actually this was uh real simple, I'm sorry. I did work for Real Living though with Deb Bibby. So um sorry, I yeah, so Deb, um Deb would actually use me quite a lot for New York content and I love Deb. Um Simon Andrews, who's a food stylist who happens to be married to Vanessa Holden, is uh was also working for them and a photographer called Hallie Burton. And we used to work as a team for Real Living for Deb, which was great. Um, but but not to confuse it with Real Simple, I'm sorry. Okay, too many reels. Too real. Yeah, so um basically I don't know if you guys would be that familiar with Real Simple, but it was a magazine that was like um very w highly regarded as one of the top uh women's magazines in uh in the States, and it was a organizational decor fashion magazine that uh was catered towards um, I guess if you want to put it in a box, you know, kind of like 30 to 50 year old women. So um it was fair, kind of a slick uh magazine. It's I think it still exists, you know, a lot of them don't these days, but unfortunately. But um yeah, so I I had the opportunity to join them and um and then I would actually work freelance in New York for publications from Australia, which was great. So it was kind of a a win-win situation.

SPEAKER_01

Do you think that was like a point in time that is so special that's gone now for magazines? It's it's a bit sad in that respect, but things change, don't they?

SPEAKER_00

Things change and and we've evolved into really great things like podcasts. And also and you know, everything's online now, and it's just it's it it's kind of uh there's been a transferral in for a long time now, and I I've also been really fortunate to see that that evolution and there's and the world really did open up so much for so many more different opportunities, you know, because most of my work now is uh was for online um clients working on their content, on their on their online catalogs, on their social media. I mean, there is just you know, it's been it's been a great thing.

SPEAKER_01

You can live in the past and say, back when I did this, we used to do that, and we can't do that. And I don't think you can do that. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_03

I think you've got to always be evolving and moving forward, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and you know, you talk to younger people in the industry and you're like, in the gut I'll days, you know, and it's like it's just kind of like, well, it just sud it suddenly ages you and puts you in a in a category. So it's like it's kind of like best to be like, oh, that was a really great, great time. Shut the door, let's move on.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, I feel like I do that thing where you sort of refer back to something in the past. And when I when I go to say that in my head, I'm like, I'm gonna sound like I'm full of wisdom, but actually it comes out as in the good old days, this is how we used to do it. And then you hear yourself and go, Oh, that didn't sound like wisdom at all. I just sound like some old person reminiscing.

SPEAKER_00

In the good old days, we had the publishing renaissance, you know, and it's like it's like and it's like it does sound like you lived in the Renaissance, you know.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly.

Cities That Shape Aesthetic And Taste

SPEAKER_03

Um, so when you moved, you went to New York and landed this great job, and then um, but you haven't just lived in New York, where else you've moved around in a bit. So I feel like if people usually go to the US, they kind of stay there, but you've actually lived a couple of different places.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you know, um, I mean, I lived in California for a few years, and um that so happened because my partner at the time got a job there.

SPEAKER_03

I wish I'd seen more of California. I I'm probably one of the people that I think I need to go back when I went to LA. I wasn't in a great headspace and I don't have great impressions of it. Like I've kind of just felt like it was like grungy and dirty, but not in the kind of a good way. Um, but I feel like I need to go back and experience it from a different point of view because I've spoken to so many people who've like told me things and I've seen things and gone, yeah, I feel like I need to go back. And California sounds so beautiful outside of LA that I'd like to go back and kind of see the beautiful parts of it. I kind of missed it.

SPEAKER_01

So do you think that your aesthetic evolved depending on what which city that you lived in?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I think like every city that you live in or every environment kind of influences who you are as an art director or stylist. I mean, it's just part of the job, I think. And uh Chicago is like so kind of grooty and and uh uh working class and industrial, and I think that's its charm.

SPEAKER_01

Hang on, just I'm just gonna stop you right there because Chicago is the most amazing city because Ferris Bueller had the most amazing day of his life in Chicago, and Kevin McAllister lived in Chicago and he had a very bougie house.

SPEAKER_00

So well, that's out in the suburbs, you know. I mean, we're not talking, we're not talking about the hard like inner city.

SPEAKER_01

All I know about is all these places, like every time you say a place, I'm like Chicago, like all of these movies come to mind.

SPEAKER_00

So it's pretty much I think that's I think that happens as a creative person, you know. I mean, I think a lot of our references and stuff come from like movies and uh images that we've seen, and they're kind of locked away in our little library in our minds, you know.

SPEAKER_01

So But but living there, did you go like you know, Chicago for instance? Like, were you like that? Is so different to what I thought. Did you ever have that sort of experience?

SPEAKER_00

So living in Chicago?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I guess those places that we are, you know, we s we take in so much of American culture through film and TV, but did you ever like actually living there? Were you like this is different or this is the same?

SPEAKER_00

Or um, I mean, there's a lot of uh cross connection between Australia and America, and you could say the same between Australia and the UK, and it's always like who are we more like, you know? And I think at this point in history, we're kind of like a little bit of both because we're so oversaturated with American culture at this point. Um, because it is a it's a very dominant culture for the rest of the world, and you know, and I think all of our references growing up, you know. I mean, I I I'm sure you guys were the same that all those reruns on TV of Bewitched and you know, Dukes of Hazard, and love but we've got I dream of genie. I dream of genie and like, you know, and and those were even before our time, but it's like Yeah, yeah, but we we still saw them all, didn't we?

SPEAKER_03

Because they were on repeat all the time.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I th I think you said before, Lauren, like my my work is kind of nostalgic. And I think, well, not nostalgic in a sense, but it kind of like it has echoes of like my childhood and things that influence me. And I I think in terms of my approach to interiors and so forth, I and even with my clients, I try to encourage that. Like take a look at your life. What what where what's your journey been? What what do you really enjoy? Like, what are the personal things like framing a big apple t-shirt? You know, it's a good suggestion. So it's like, um, I think like it's fine to have that minimalist kind of approach if that's what you want, but it's certainly not me. Like, I wouldn't say I'm a maximalist either. I'm sort of somewhere in between. But I think it's so important in any space, whether it's a a home, whether it's a restaurant, whether it's uh an office. I'm designing an office at the moment. Like, I encourage my clients to to to take a step back and be like, don't be afraid to have the personal touches, because I think that's what makes a space feel authentic and genuine. And um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I like you're preaching to the converted here. We are all about that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, right. I think it's so sad when you walk into an empty white box and it's like, I mean, I guess we had a lot of this in Sydney in the 2000s. That was kind of the trend. But it's like I think we've kind of evolved from that, you know. I think some people are still stuck in that era, and then I think every I think a lot of other people have been like, you know, it's like um it's time to embrace who we are, like uh time to like I think it's part of understanding who you are and what what your space represents, you know, it's important.

SPEAKER_03

It's it's this interesting thing that I think happens in Australia, and this is why I think to grow as a designer, it is important to travel or to at least study other areas and other um aspects of design from different points of view, because Australia is such a young country that we have a penchant for newness. And so I think there's so many um, you know, like most people probably grew up in suburbs where the homes were all quite new, like say, you know, during the 70s or whatever it was, or um through to the 80s, and there wasn't a lot of, you know, you probably didn't even have old furniture that had been handed down to you. I think that was kind of rare to the average Australian. So we went through this period of everything needing to be kind of perfect and new. And I think we're finally kind of understanding that it's okay if things aren't perfect and that they have a history and that they're worn. And then I just think that's very different from say if you'd grown up in, you know, Italy or even um London, you would have had old things around you and you would have sort of understood that that's how things are. I don't know. I've always been the influence, yeah, and Australia being kind of very new.

SPEAKER_00

I would agree. I mean, I think too um, it's like I guess uh places like Italy and London and so forth, there's such a history and a heritage there and a and a and it hopefully a lot of people, not everyone, but has a respect for um you know things that are well made and things that have a story and a relative to their family or their um experience um with in relation to the design referencing the country in a way. I mean, I think when you go to Denmark, for instance, and you walk past apartments at night and you look in and you see like a a 90-year-old couple like sitting at a, you know, a a beautiful This feels like a memory stain apple. Yeah. But like I always remember when I was there and I remember looking at everyone's walk of life, and uh and it didn't matter which suburb you went to or or what what the age was of the people that live there, that you'd walk you'd look in and spy, and you'd see that they'd all had a respect for design, you know. Yeah, and um and you'd see design classics in there, but you'd also see them mixed with like family photos on the wall, and it's kind of like it's just like part of the heritage. And I think in Australia we've really struggled to find that like what is our voice, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think that should be our next tour, Bray, where we go to Denmark and at night time we just walk past houses and look in.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Do it. I did it. I spent weeks.

SPEAKER_03

And just in a hushed voice, explain what's happening. And here we have this couple. They've lived here for over 50 years.

SPEAKER_01

You can see they've gathered yeah, they've got a Hans Wagner there, and they've got a yeah. But it's actually interesting. They actually do have the windows open in that country and some of those Scandinavian countries is a different way of life.

SPEAKER_00

But and Yeah, I love that. And the food, everything. It's like it's so like so like rich and defined, you know. And um, they're always exploring new ways of uh reinventing the past, but the past is always respected, you know. Yeah. Yes, yes.

Big Brands And Design Heritage

SPEAKER_01

So can you tell us about some of those brands that you worked with? In the US?

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Um, I'm I I worked largely um after I sort of had my spell in magazines. I moved into more like branding and uh art direction and styling for a lot of the lifestyle brands in the States that uh some people would know here because we we have some of them, like Pottery Barn and West Elm and and uh Williamson Omer and companies like that that had um kind of had decided to explore the market in Australia probably what, 10, 15 years ago now. But um but also many companies that that most people wouldn't have heard of, but of course you guys would know like Herman Miller and Design Within Reach and other companies that are uh have been uh a staple of mid-century and modern design in in um in America and the world. And I think um, you know, working for those companies was quite amazing because uh, for instance, Herman Miller are in the middle of a little town in Michigan. Um they basically they basically own the towns, and that's like you see their big Herman Miller trucks with the you know Herman Miller logos driving everywhere, and and you go to the um the place where the photo studio is, which is part of the original compound, and it's also like beautifully designed from the 1960s, and it's like it's it's really amazing to see like where some of those brands came from and how they've again like I guess they do this in America as well with some of the brands that kind of respect the the heritage of the brand, you know. So um so yeah, I was pretty lucky to work for some really great companies there, a lot of um companies even like Oshkosh Bagosh, you know.

SPEAKER_03

I did a lot of that for a while.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and um a lot of uh kids' companies, you know, it's a really big market there. It's just really good to kind of tap into that, like I don't know, hyper-real American thing, you know. I kind of enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, sort of an outsider. Are there some things that you I mean, those names, they're huge, huge names. Very it's very impressive that you were working with them. Were there some things that you learned there that you think that you couldn't have learned here?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, definitely. I mean, I don't I don't really know. It's like a kind of opening a can of worms. I don't I don't know where to start because it's like you know, living in New York, it's like not not to sound like I'm putting myself up on a pedestal, but it's like, you know, you you're learning from people like Martha Stewart and Oprah Winfrey and like firsthand, you know, like get out of town. Martha Martha would come into our shoots and we'd chat, you know. It's like Martha, and you know, I mean, uh who's our equivalent of Martha Stewart in Australia? I mean, I guess you could say that's Donna. Donna Hay? Yeah, but it's like I think um Tonya Todman. Tonya Todman. Oh, yeah. But I think these these are living legends, you know, and it's like and and I think I think it was like such a privilege to be able to turn up to work and be like, I don't know who I'm gonna meet today. It could be so exciting. And uh and even like in the area of Manhattan, Manhattan that I lived in, like I lived in a really beautiful 1920s building there as well, uh, called London Terrace. And like, you know, Debbie Harry from Blondie was my neighbour. Stop it. Annie Leibovitz lived upstairs from me, you know. So and uh I would see Meg I'd see Meg Ryan down in the foyer looking for her doctor, you know, because we had office and Debbie Harry for me now, but I know, right?

SPEAKER_01

Have you read her autobiography?

SPEAKER_00

I have isn't it brilliant?

SPEAKER_01

She's a very cool person.

SPEAKER_00

She is very cool, it really is. So I I have such a I have such a big respect for her because like my New York t-shirt, she was like my my pinup poster on the wall like growing up. You know, she's the most beautiful face in the world. I love her. She really does. Yeah, so I mean, I just I think that you know, just having the opportunity to to meet people that are like world icons and in such a in such a just like haphazard kind of like everyday way, you know. Like like I I remember sitting going to a restaurant in my building and because uh it was quite a big building with restaurants and offices and and uh you know David Byrne from Talking Heads would be sitting next to me and just strike up a conversation. So it's like you know, I see Ben Kingsley at the diner, and you know, it's like I think it's not not to not to name drop or anything, but I mean you we just don't have those experiences in Australia.

SPEAKER_01

Did you ever it's different, you know, and it's it's different.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like in New York, you don't bother people, you know. You j like if if somebody was walking down the street here, they'd be mobbed. But in in New York, there's there's kind of like a respect for like, okay, they're people too, they're you know, we can have a chat.

SPEAKER_03

Did you actually have a talk with David Bern? I did, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

We were talking about how we had splinters in our arse from the seats. It was like this really r rustic French bistro, and they had like these really cool, like you know, wooden benches, but every time you sat down on them, you got a splinter, so that's so funny. I love it. And I'd seen there all the time. We'd be like, Because where are the splinters?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's so cute. Did you ever meet someone where you like thought, I don't think I can, I'm gonna lose my shit here. Like I don't think I can act cool.

SPEAKER_00

Ah, probably Martha, actually. Like, I mean, I yeah, I met her a few times, so I remember the first time I walked into the studio and I'd been out like, I don't know, getting a prop from the prop cupboard or something, and I came back and there's this like tall statuesque woman with her corky wedges and big blonde hair, and she turned around and she's like, Oh, in her very deep Martha voice. And I'm like, Oh my god, it's Martha. You know, I mean, I think um I think for me it's like, you know, like someone like her, I mean, she's like the epitome of like and and the queen of everything that we do, right? So, you know, I think in some ways, meeting people like that that you that you know have like such a deep knowledge base of of the industry and so forth can be quite intimidating at times.

SPEAKER_03

I think she would be a very intimidating person. I would be intimidated 100%.

SPEAKER_00

She's intimidating, but she she's also quite even more now that she's been to jail.

SPEAKER_03

Ah yeah, well it's like she's got all the things, you know.

SPEAKER_00

She's got everything, she's ticked all the boxes. Yeah. So you know, I I mean, I guess, you know, Australia Australia is different in that sense. I mean, most of people's life in Australia is not going to be one in Manhattan. It's like, you know, man Manhattan in New York really is like it's like nowhere else in the world, you know. So you're just not you're not going to get it anywhere else. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's quite magical. But after was it 15 years you were in the US? How long were you there for?

SPEAKER_00

Uh actually close to 20 years. Close to since 2005. Yeah.

The GFC Shift And Travel Grind

SPEAKER_01

Was it hard to keep up that pace of just like go, go, go all the time?

SPEAKER_00

Um, a lot of my jobs, like particularly and I don't know, in Australia, I always got this sense that uh financially it didn't really affect you guys as much as what happened when we were living in the US. There was a major um downturn in the economy around I I can't exactly remember. I think it was like 2007. And like basically the industry changed overnight. Like I I would go to work like a year earlier and be like, uh, you know, what's the budget for this photo shoot? And they'd be like, What's the budget?

SPEAKER_03

You know, and then like just get it done.

SPEAKER_00

And whatever it takes, you know. And then so and then within a year, um, you know, I was having to let staff go and I was having to, you know, work to a budget. And and so, you know, everything v very much changed in in my industry uh during that period.

SPEAKER_01

It sounds intense, like you know, the pace of the pace. Yeah. And did you ever sort of think like it was maybe a bit of a break when there was that global financial crisis in some way, or was it uh it it really shook my shook my whole world because, you know, obviously I'd moved there with all of this, like, you know, amazing opportunities.

SPEAKER_00

And then it's not that there wasn't opportunities anymore, but like you really had to be conscious of of everything in terms of spending and so forth. And and so, you know, there was a lot of cutting corners and stuff that we didn't have to do when I first moved there. And then so what happened in the industry is that a lot of people stopped shooting in New York just because of the cost of flying everybody in and the location costs and so forth. So what happened is there was this really big shift to have stylists and art directors and photographers go to where the brands were. So hence, you know, Herman Liller in the middle of nowhere in Michigan, and um, and I would go to San Francisco for William Sonoma, and I would go to Minneapolis where Target was based. And, you know, I would spend like sometimes four or five weeks on a project in these places. I remember being like in Minneapolis in the dead of winter and walking out to the chutes in the morning with icicles coming out of my nose and you know, and being there being there for five works working on shower curtain packaging, you know, it's like it's kind of like um I I yeah, it was Martha Stewart's curtains, I think. But but anyway, I um I uh I found that uh it w it really did make everything change because even though I was living in New York, I was really just using not you New York as a pit stop in between jobs. So like if you can imagine like hopping on planes non-stop and it all sounds so glamorous, but it never is when you're doing that. No, and often you're staying in like you know, so-so hotels.

SPEAKER_03

Airport next the hotel next to the airport, yeah. Which is never a good hotel.

SPEAKER_00

No, next to the airport, or you might have to like, you know, be staying in a budget hotel and going to Target and buying a, you know, a stovetop cooker so you can cook yourself meals at night. You know, it's like all that sort of stuff. It's like it's like not that glamorous, uh, particularly when the economy tanked, like people were just not paying for that sort of thing anymore. So um and you know, of course there were some clients that had amazing budgets, but like the majority didn't. So it was very like was a very like um, like you just had to be like very humble, you know, like you had to be prepared to do some jobs where you would be in the dodgy motel at the airport, and then the next next thing you know, you'd be in Mexico City, like staying at a high-end hotel and eating at a great restaurant, and you'd be like, okay, so there's lots of contrasts and and and lots of with America, there's just like so much um intensity in terms of the have and the have nots, you know. It's like it's really very segreg segregated um country in terms of I feel like it's becoming like that everywhere, isn't it? Yeah, it is actually. Yeah, but even more so in America. Yeah. Yes. So I do I do agree that America, you know, it's like it's it's you have to be switched on the whole time. And I and you have to, I think for me, now that I'm at a certain period, I'm actually really grateful to be back in Australia. Not that you don't have to work hard in Australia, but it's kind of like you with America, it's just like go, go, go. It's like PC, PC, PC. It's corporate, corporate, corporate. It's like it's very like um, you know, you can't really l let your guard down in a sense there, you know. At least here you can go for a swim down at the rock pool or something, you know, and you can it's like there's like there's more of a balance here, I think.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's interesting. It doesn't sound very sustainable then. Like if you can't kind of have that moment where you can just kind of just ground yourself and and come back to you and then yeah, it's just go, go, go. So, like that sounds like you've been you did that for quite a long time then.

SPEAKER_00

A long time. And you know, I think I would say moving to Australia when I first got here, I took a big deep breath and I was kind of like, you know, I I was really exhausted from that whole, you know, 20 years of living in America.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, just on automatic mode.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And I think um, you know, it was a great experience, and I don't regret it, but I don't know if I I could do it for a whole lifetime, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. You've been there, done that. It sounds like you really had some amazing experiences, worked on some huge brands. And I'd like to talk a little bit about like your styling work.

Styling Tricks For Lived In Sets

SPEAKER_01

What do you think makes a space or an image feel real rather than start styled? Like, do you have any like uh tips or anything like that? I mean, I think so much of what we see in media, yeah, I don't know. There there's a sort of two styles. There's a really very highly styled uh look where it's very quite minimalist and in a way sometimes a lot of predictable pieces are used in a in a space versus something like what you I think we we sort of are more drawn to that more lived-in look. But when you're working for brands in a set, how do you create something that does look real?

SPEAKER_00

That's a good question. I mean, um, I think in terms of like it depends really on the client because some client will want things to be very shmko, you know, and then other clients are more into the relaxed look. It really depends on the ethos of the brand itself, I think. But um, fulfilling a brief. Yeah. And I think you you work that all that out in terms of like digesting and kind of dissecting the brand's um, you know, narrative, I guess. And so like for me, like uh in terms of there's a there's a few little tricks and things that you can do, but like I do think like in terms of sets that have even like a little bit of patina on the walls, you know, that are not just like look like sets that actually when you're designing a set, you might put like a radiator in, or you might put like a a random kind of like column somewhere, or you might it's like something that feels like a little bit more like part like it could be historically part of a real space. Um, and not kind of being afraid of that, because some people are like, why would you put a you know a pipe going down the s down the corner of a wall and stuff that people often get rid of in a shoe?

SPEAKER_03

You you almost add those things back in to make it feel interesting.

SPEAKER_00

I do, even like the molding or like you know, it's almost like you have to be like, What who lived in this space and what's the history and the evolution of like people coming and going and changing the space? And you know, I mean that's I mean, we all kind of like like that ourselves when we when we walk into a place and you can see like evidence of of what there might be some elements there that that are original to the original space, you know. And I think I think so many people that are not in that mindset, they want everything to be new, new, new. And I think for me, but it's in reality, it's not going to be like that. So like try to think of like in your sets how you can design sets that feel real. I think so, like you know, dog hair and like fingerprints and everything. That would be the average house, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_01

Bag of a big basket of washing.

SPEAKER_03

My my dog loves to collect socks, so I just walk around the house randomly and go, Oh, there's just another random sock, like just on the ground.

SPEAKER_00

I know. Well, yeah, I I'm the same with uh I have a kitten now, and so my whole house has been turned upside down since. And you know, I'm pretty like um his name's Claude. Yeah. Oh, that's sweet. And what does he look like? What kind of Russian blue, so he's uh beautiful. Very regal looking. He's kind of uh he's got the green eyes with the silvery grey fur.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah, he's really and is he mischievous as a kitten?

SPEAKER_00

You know, they all are, I think.

SPEAKER_03

But um some are more crazy than others. That's true.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, he has his he has his moments of zoomies and all of that sort of thing. As I, you know, I had I the last time I had a cat was like 25 years ago. So I had I'd forgotten about all of that. But you know, he'll be one minute, he'll be in zoomy mode, and the next minute he'll be like sitting there like a little prince, like you know, it was like a schizophrenic moment that happened. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That must be nice to be able to have a kitten now that you're back home. You can kind of put your feet on the ground and plant roots, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's been so lovely to be able to, you know, t tap back into my family, into old friends and uh and new friends and um and and finally get to have a pet and not be worried about hopping on a plane tomorrow, you know. So I um I really am enjoying this chapter in my life and understanding that life doesn't actually have to be like that, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Annex 3000 And Building Community

SPEAKER_01

So um so what does your work look like now? Are you working with brands? Are you doing more um interiors, residential work? Or yeah, I'd love to know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I am I'm working on a lot of residential um projects with a uh a team of people that work out of Balmain in a design office there. And um, that's been that's been really great for me to be able to because the hardest thing for me having been away so long is to like getting to know the um the suppliers and the um all of those people that I haven't been using for 20 years, or people that are companies that have evolved since I left and and been able to tap into like actually finding great companies and product that I can use here and and trying to push more of an Australian agenda, which is like always been like a big dream of mine because even back in my editorial days, you know, on Inside Out and Vogue Living and everything, I always made sure that I had a lot of Australian design and content within whatever I was styling because I think it, you know, speaking of the good old days, um that that's where you kind of you kind of had a platform to be able to promote some um young designers' work and so forth. So so even within um a residential project, I try to educate the client and be like, you know, this is a great ceramic ceramicist. I think you'd really like dig their work and you know, buy because I'm basically working with for like procuring furniture and art and decor and uh choosing paint colours, fabrics, you know, all that stuff that you guys know about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I love that I love that. And then I also am teaching one day a week at um White House School of Design. I'm teaching creative direction and styling. So Oh, lucky students. I think lucky me because um, you know, actually being able to work with people that are going to emerge in the industry, hopefully, and just kind of seeing their own journey and their excitement about design and the influences and you know, it it actually makes you feel like seeing something through a new lens, you know. So I uh I really enjoy that. And then I also have my new project that you mentioned earlier, Lauren, which is um Annex. So um Annex is actually Annex 3000 on uh Instagram, but um I think basically to explain that it's uh it's a space which is within Alexandria, which is like kind of like the the suburb, go-to suburb here for designers. We have all the showrooms, we have all of the um antique centers, we have like uh a lot of um paint companies, so forth, are all situated in Alexandria and it's so close to the city, but you kind of got it all in one spot, which is great. So I have a location um that I had found, which is a part of a studio with other artists. Antonia Pericone is an abstract artist and she has a large portion of the space, and then I have uh an annex, which is part of that kind of setup where we both kind of integrate our work together, but um also working with another um uh set stylist and prop stylist, Mary Papenter now. But um, she she basically introduced me to the space, and I'd only just met her recently, and and there was an opportunity, and it's a really lovely industrial space with uh a very authentic artistic bent to it. So I thought this is a really good space to integrate not only my work, but also start building out um an Australian content in terms of product that can be uh displayed there and be open for appointment. And so if I had a lot of designers and a lot of stylists already approaching me, and I uh I'm just about to open the doors and uh have people come and um, you know, procure things for their projects. Um I've also also been really lucky that people like Karen McCartney and Leanne Rosler have also been um part of the process and they're very keen to. I think at this stage in our lives we're we're all got like an overload of beautiful things, right? Yeah, and it's and it's kind of like we still love these beautiful things, but we know that some of them are ready to go to a new home. So so I've all I've almost approached it with Karen and Leon and some others that you know, what are the things that that you can curate that we can move on and that can can can bring joy to to other people? So I have like like personal curated collections from those people and other industry um icons. So uh so it's it's a it's a work in progress, but it's and it's a very kind of like organic space right now. But um you know, I'm hoping to to develop more relationships and more collaborations and have it be more about cross-pollination and and community, you know, which I think is something that is really important and uh and uplifts our spirits, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I love that. And I mean, somebody with your wealth of experience, what a generous thing to do, like to bring a community together. Yeah, it's really cool because I yeah, there isn't sometimes a bit of a level of gatekeeping with um designers or creatives, like this is my supplier, and I use them and I don't want it, I don't want everyone to know because I don't know, I don't think that's us, is it? Like that it's nice and you build each other up and everybody, you know, everybody gets better.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think so. I mean, maybe I'm bringing a little bit of spirit of New York because you know, New York gets a bad rep for everything, everybody being rude, but actually, New Yorkers are not rude, they're just like lunt and to the point, you know.

SPEAKER_03

And um Yeah, there's a difference, isn't there?

SPEAKER_00

Um and my experience is like there's some amazing prop houses in New York. And I I loved nothing more than like just going and spending a half day in a prop house and chatting to all my other uh um stylist friends, you know? Like I feel like I feel like unfortunately in Sydney people are a little bit like, you know, there's like a few closed doors going on. And I feel like it's like such a shame because I think by building community and actually like helping each other out and and supporting each other. Um we're all going through the same thing. You know, sure we might be pitching for the same clients at times. But I think it's it's actually really healthy to to understand that your competitors can be your friends as well. You know?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah. And it's that whole thing of building community. I think I I do notice the difference between the Melbourne design community and the city design community. And Melbourne is very tight knit and we're quite open to sharing things and you'll see us all out at industry events and we all kind of know each other or you know most but I feel like Sydney's way more closed off. People maybe kind of like there's not as much attendance at events. It's harder to kind of crack open that shell and get like a bit close like maybe there's like little tight multiple groups but they don't kind of cross pollinate as much as they probably should. And I think that's kind of I don't know that community can actually shape the way you design and what you know and influence you know each other. And I think it's a good thing, right?

SPEAKER_00

Like Yeah, I totally agree. And I think there's a real disconnect in Sydney. I mean I have come down to Melbourne quite a bit since I got here and I often think is Melbourne the city I should have moved back to you know because I like like honestly I you know I mean I originally am from Melbourne I'll just tell you that but I yeah yeah yeah but um you know and I've always felt like there's a little bit of Melbourne in my soul you know so I've once you you will never get that Melbourne take the boy out of Melbourne. You can't take the Melbourne out of the boy but um you know that I just I love the fact that in Melbourne I I just go down and I feel so much more relaxed and I have chats with people.

SPEAKER_03

It's hard to pinpoint exactly what it is. Maybe because it's harder to get around in Sydney and so it's just people kind of maybe stay I don't know I'm just I don't know about why but you can't be swimming at the beach in Melbourne this time of year though. So you are winning on that through those serious so I still love Sydney and you know I we all um well Lauren and I both have lots of great creative friends there. I just know when I'm there and even when I speak to the the Sydney designers and say if they've come to Melbourne to events or whatever, they can see the difference and they can feel it. It's just sort of it's the vibes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well you know uh Sydney's the Emerald City you know that it's like that David Williamson play from the 80s you know I mean there's like such vast differences between the cities and you could say that between New York and LA there's always going to be differences. And you know I love Sydney don't get me wrong I love it so much. The it's such a beautiful city in so many respects. But I but I think there is a need for more community here and a little bit less gatekeeping. Oh yeah because that's fair. Yeah thank you thank you I kind of see it like Sydney's traffic you know you you kind of need to get into that lane but no one will let you in. So it's kind of like you know like you you go to some other cities and people are so polite on the roads and you're like I like this city. Yeah you know it's like it's yeah it's just like it's just like looking out for each other you know I know I know it sounds like a little bit of a cliche but I think it's important you know we're all in the same boat and we can all inspire each other.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

Redefining Success And Slowing Down

SPEAKER_01

So after such a fast-paced career and talking about all that we've talked about how do you define success now?

SPEAKER_00

Ooh that's a big question isn't it I think defining success is getting to know yourself you know I think um actually sitting and having the opportunity to really um digest what like makes you tick, you know, I think um I think your interests and having time and allowing yourself to to be present and to be able to do deep dives into things that you love. You know, I mean I think if you're so busy like what it's what I've realized like in America like it was fantastic. But like when you're living this life where you're like constantly on the go, you really don't get a chance to do a deep dive into yourself. And then I think coming to Sydney and and and sort of being having that that situation where I really had to get to know a whole city again and I had to make contacts again and and you know it's taken a good two years to do it to be honest. But and I really feel like I'm getting there now. But but you it's really allowed me to kind of sit with myself and submerge myself and be like you know what maybe in my life doesn't have to be like that you know I can actually carve out my own life and so I think that's amazing.

SPEAKER_03

So I think it in some ways I I really am blessed that in this point in my life I'm able to return to Australia and and be excited about being here you know I love that beautiful amazing yeah it is a you know it is a really um it's a privilege to be able to do what we love isn't it absolutely it really is it really is you know and to and to create that like you said to carve out what how you want to live that is a huge it's a huge privilege and I do think that is reflective of if you've put in all of the work now you can go this is how I want my life to be and it's great I think if anyone can think about that and just even just try to manifest that rather than kind of going oh this just is how it has to be I think there's so much opportunity for you to actually shape your life and the way you want it to be and not let it lead you.

SPEAKER_00

You sort of lead it in a way like that's right. That's right. Yeah and not to take everything personally too that's a big thing you know because I think uh when you take a step back from that and you you you kind of understand that people are coming from their own place and their own you know that's so true things that are going on in life. So you know just having some patience I've learnt to have some patience. I think that's a hard one I'm quite impatient.

SPEAKER_02

I think it's a good thing to learn.

SPEAKER_00

Well I lived in New York so I was was impatient but now I I really do feel like now if I have to wait 20 minutes to get my latte in the morning I'm okay. First world problem right yeah exactly well I think we might wrap this up I have so enjoyed our chat Marcus and when you're in Melbourne please please do get in touch are you coming for Melbourne Design Week in May I hoped I hope I will be there yeah so I mean um you definitely many friends in Melbourne I met I've met a lot of family in Melbourne so I'm I'm very keen to come down so I'll I'll definitely look you guys up and say hi. That would be great.

SPEAKER_01

And if you're in Sydney come on we'll do I want to check it out it sounds cool. Yes oh it's a it's an experience yeah it's gonna be good we love that thanks Marcus see ya thank you Marcus thank you so much bye bye bye bye we've got the utmost respect for the Wurundjry people of the Kulin Nation they're the OG custodians of this unceded land and its waters where we set up shop, create and call home and come to you from this podcast today.

Acknowledgement To Country And Close

SPEAKER_01

A big shout out to all of the amazing elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the present and the emerging leaders who will carry the torch into the future. We're just lucky to be on this journey together.