Hello, welcome back to Breaking Jaded. I am Chloe. This is my mom. Hi, I'm Kendra, and we are here with Allison and Kayani. Hi, and these two have been best friends for how long Eight years.
Speaker 2Eight years? No, we just did.
Speaker 1Okay, prison time Exclude prison time. Exclude prison time. Or maybe include prison time that I am including.
Speaker 3Okay.
Speaker 1So like eight years, eight years, wow, maybe nine yeah, maybe nine, yeah, eight, nine years, yeah about there and apparently we met, but we don't remember apparently so we're meeting technically again for the first yeah yeah, so all right. So do we want to give a brief history on us and then we can go to them? Sure, okay, where did you just come from federal prison? Not just, but yeah is it eight months now?
Speaker 2yeah, okay. So yeah, pretty much released from federal prison eight months ago.
Speaker 1You were in there for five, almost six years. Five, five years, yeah, and before that you, we weren't really present in each other's lives and we just reunited for the first time, pretty much eight months ago, and we don't really need to go into the details of why you were in prison.
Speaker 2But I was drug dealing okay, straight to the point, allison and I were drug dealing together yes, so you guys were on the same endowment right.
Speaker 1Partners in crime, literally.
Speaker 2No, not officially. Not officially Should have been. Yeah, could have been.
Speaker 4Do your own side hustles no.
Speaker 3Legal this time. I see, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2But we could have been easily, but we weren't. Yes, yeah, but we weren't yes, yeah, we had separate yeah charges.
Speaker 3Separate cases, same charges, Same charges. Separate cases yeah.
Speaker 1And I was just saying to Keoni that it's kind of funny that technically we're meeting for the first time and I feel like with everything we're going to talk about today, there are a lot of similarities that we're going to find. Yeah, especially just because of how much life you two have lived together. Yeah, and therefore, we have kind of experienced similar things, so I think it's going to be super interesting. Yeah, we don't really have a goal that we're going to reach. It's just going to be raw, just real talking.
Speaker 2Yeah, whatever comes up, comes up. Yeah, both of you have mutual parents. You have both parents like mother and father. Crazy, I mean, that are crazy.
Speaker 1You have both parents like mother and father Crazy, I mean that are crazy. We have some crazy parents.
Speaker 2Your dad, thank God, is on the same path of doing really well from what. I understand now, which is amazing. He's also a good friend of mine. I also used to deal drugs with your dad.
Speaker 3Oh my gosh this circle, right, circle, right, yeah.
Speaker 1yeah, we're talking about full circle we're currently in a gun shop, in some random room in a gun shop in san diego, and across the street like literally right there.
Speaker 2I don't know if I should say that I'm on my period probation we are not in a gun shop no, we are next to a, we are not. No, I was just joking. Let's say why so right across the street.
Speaker 1It's crazy because there's a circle k and now an apartment complex that actually used to be an rv park that we used to live in it's no longer an rv park.
Speaker 2No, you gotta see it anyway she just has to drive me by it because it's a beautiful apartment.
Speaker 3Thank god, because it's oh my gosh, how many times we were over there selling dope Like what. I didn't know that.
Speaker 1I know I lived there for a long time and then up the street from that. I lived there with my dad when I was like yay big, so it's a lot of full circle going on. It's kind of crazy.
Speaker 2As far as shame goes, that place is like the worst for me. Because she. It's the only time in my life that, like I, did drugs near her.
Speaker 3Right.
Speaker 2And it's awful, it just you know what I mean. It just it's so bad for me, it's so hard for me, it's so like hard for me to just digest.
Speaker 1So it's easier. Now that it's an apartment, we don't have to think about it, not that it's okay that I was like abandoned her for years either.
Speaker 2Like that's not okay either, but just that she was around me. She didn't see it, thank God, you know she never saw me do it, but just that I was around her high.
Speaker 3Right.
Speaker 2Yeah, and that she lived in an RV, Like that's awful, you know, I mean there's worst case scenarios.
Speaker 3Yeah, I know, I know.
Speaker 2Right, right, it could have been worse. You know it could have been worse. I wasn't abusive or anything like that, but still, still, it just doesn't sit right with me and it's something that I have to work through, you know, and we work through and we talk about and yeah, just was it last night or the night before that you were like sitting there just kind of staring at the ground and I was like are you okay?
Speaker 1and then she just started being like how could I have done that to you? How could I have been so lost?
Speaker 2like I must have been so lost and confused and you're still processing everything and you probably will be for a long time, but I'm still owning it all. You know, Even just that I smoked around her. You know Like I smoked cigarettes in the car with her.
Speaker 3Oh my gosh Kayani's looking at me like that was my biggest pet peeve with her.
Speaker 4I was just hating. I remember like going to school in elementary school and always like well, I mean, my grandparents did too. They smoked cigarettes in the apartment, my grandpa did, and his whole room smelled like cigarettes. But I remember always going to school and all the kids would be like you smell weird you smell weird and I was just like embarrassing for a child.
Speaker 2I know she told me that her friends wouldn't want to come over because the house smelled like smoke and I didn't know because I was so used to.
Speaker 1Yeah, oh my god. And so I always had to go over to their house. That's so horrible.
Speaker 3Yeah it's okay, though, I smell good now. Yeah, we do Right, we smell good perfume.
Speaker 4I know, I know.
Speaker 2It's just like it's that stuff. Yeah, you know that we just, yeah, it's just so weird to think that like, it's just such a different. You know there's so much like and being in san diego for me now, like everywhere I drive, I'm like oh god yeah, oh god. Yeah, we parked her car in a lot the other day and I'm like you have no idea what this parking lot means to me like all the shit that I did all the stuff like the dope deals I did in this parking lot so like I literally held someone at gunpoint in this parking lot she's like what?
Speaker 2mom. Yeah, I'm like a whole different human being, like, oh, it doesn't even feel like me.
Speaker 4But, yeah, and she's like why?
Speaker 2I'm like well, he stole my car.
Speaker 3You know, or tried to. He didn't get away with it For the first year after I got out of prison.
Speaker 3So I've been out and March 1 since I got out of federal prison but for like the first year, like being out, like clean and sober. I'm going to all these places like looking for jobs and, like you know, going to school and doing all the things I need to do. But I'm like coming across all these different places where things happened and I'm like, dude, I sold dope there. I sold dope there, like I got in a fight there. I got in a fight there. Like just a lot of old memories like coming up. But the cool thing this time is that, like, cause I've done that before, Right? So like I've, I've attempted to get clean numerous times throughout my life since you know, and I've attempted to get clean numerous times throughout my life, and I've been using drugs since I was 12 years old and I'm 39 now. Oh my God, the math. Yeah, something preserved me.
Speaker 2I don't know.
Speaker 3But like now being clean. Well, now it doesn't like. Have that power over me, right.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 3So my time in prison. I don't know what clicked right, but something changed.
Speaker 1Yeah, you know she was saying, because when I asked her I was like I know I was your motivation, but she was saying that it was a power greater than herself that got her clean and wherever that click came from.
Speaker 3Yeah, 100 percent. Yeah 100 for me I definitely call.
Speaker 2You know it's god changed my life, right? Yeah, yeah, she struggles with that and that's okay. I don't struggle with it. Yeah, I mean super open with that kind of stuff yeah, and I get it and I get it and I, but it's, it's just um I fully believe there is a power greater than right right myself, so Right In place working, yeah and do me a favor. So yeah, and whatever it is.
Speaker 3And mine has evolved Right.
Speaker 2Right Same.
Speaker 3So when I first, when I was in prison, like the first year waiting to be sentenced I don't know how you waited three years, by the way, to be sentenced. That's crazy. It was not by choice, I know, I know. But like the first year I was just miserable and depressed and like slept all day and and read all night right, that was. That was like my routine for the first year, because I didn't know how to process that like I've lost my kids again yeah and like, and that Landon was getting my son got adopted, landon, you know and like.
Speaker 3I didn't know how to process all that and I and at that point I was like fuck you, god.
Speaker 3Yeah you know like here I am again right. Um then, like once I got sentenced, I don't know what set in, but like I was ready for this journey and it definitely wasn't me because I was at that fuck you place, yeah, so you know. And then I started like praying and I didn't know, like to who or to what, or you know and then I started reading the Bible because, like I had nothing but time you were on lockdown 24 hours a day, right For COVID, for COVID and then I started reading the Bible and that really interested me understand it, how a God or Jesus, or our creator, or whatever you want to call it, but that became my God. You know, I was praying to Jesus and I was praying to God.
Speaker 3And then, and then, once I got out, I was introduced to like Narcotics Anonymous again, you know and and that, you know, and I continued to go to church and like, do all that and like, through that, my daughter has been able to find God, you know, and it has changed her life and, um, mine's shifted again.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 3And that's okay. Right, right, um, and that's OK. It's shifted kind of away from religion, but I still know that there's like this, all and mighty powerful God that is loving and caring and is merciful. Right, whatever my God is today, it's keeping me clean, it's keeping me focused, it's keeping me on the right path, it's keeping me clean, it's keeping me focused. It's keeping me on the right path, and so, once I stopped trying to define it, it's worked so much better for me and everybody else has their own journey right and their own beliefs, and I support that 100%, you know.
Speaker 2I feel the same way when I try and put it in a box for me. Yeah, it makes I. I run right, it doesn't.
It doesn't work for me so much, but I just believe, I just have faith right and it works for me yeah and I will say, like the, the reason why I so struggle, um, like I tried going to church when I got out, right, right, and I struggle because the thing that I can, I have family that I love that are, you know, very, very Christian and I love them to death, but they always the really hard, hard thing for me is that when they tell me that the people that I love so dearly, like including her dad, including my dad, you know that they're not in heaven and that I can't, I can't accept, I can't, I will not accept Right. And so that's where I struggle, and so I just I have to have my own set of beliefs. Because I have, I just believe in an all loving, all unconditionally loving God for me and that works for me, you know.
Speaker 2And it's what I accept, as you know, and it works for me Good.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Thanks for sharing, guys. Thanks.
Speaker 1It seems like you're both in a very good place.
Speaker 2We are, we are.
Speaker 1I don't know about you but just seeing them like this is like healing a lot of shit.
Speaker 4Yeah, I agree too. I think both of your perspectives are very beautiful, as well, so thank you for sharing. So yeah, I remember when my mom got out of prison she had told me she was like I want to go to church with you. And at that point in my life I was like Please tell us where you're at.
Speaker 3Can you please share?
Speaker 4where you're at. Yeah, so yeah, I grew up in a home with parents who were using, and so that was obviously really hard. My whole life I had really bad daddy issues. So I was seeking men boys at a very, very young age and I was trying to find my contentment and my identity in that and thinking that I needed that to be fulfilled. And it never was. I was in a lot of toxic relationships and I just could never be on my own. I didn't know like what I was or who I wanted to be or like what my life plan was at all. I felt very alone and depressed.
Speaker 4I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety and I took meds for it for a while and I just was really bitter and angry and I was holding on to a lot of like unforgiveness with my father, especially my father. Um, it was really really hard for me to like let go of things. I was just like I just don't understand. If someone says they love me, how could they put me through this? You know, and um and I had I was in a toxic relationship at that point. I left him because it just was cause I was living with him. I moved in with him when I was 18. I left him because it just was because I was living with him. I moved in with him when I was 18. I left him because it was not a good, not a good place to live Right and I was homeless and I was couch surfing with all my friends for a while. I and the car that I had the time it broke down.
Speaker 3I'm tapping you because I'm wondering are you comfortable sharing, like yeah, what you were doing for work?
Speaker 4Yeah, I. So, yeah, my car broke down. Um, I had no place to stay. Um, my car just broke. I was couch surfing with my friends and one of my friends at the time, she uh, worked at a strip club and she was a stripper and I was staying with her and uh, she, I, I, started working as a server at that club. Um, um, so I would just make hookahs, serve drinks, um, and I was 18 still and um cut my my, my brother, koa, he um was in group homes, um running all over the place, uh, doing a lot of things. Bless his heart. Um, but I was really worried about him and um, I, mom, my mom just got out of prison. She was in a halfway house.
Speaker 3Yeah, so I wasn't able.
Speaker 4Yeah, she wasn't able to really yeah, she had no, she couldn't really help us like financially or like you know. There was nothing much she could do and all I knew was that I I needed to stay on my own two feet. I was like if I could have done this my whole life, I can do this now. But I was literally felt like I. That was probably the lowest point of my life, because I felt I was like I can't even like support myself. I can't. I'm like I need to be there for COA, I don't know what to like. It was just so overwhelming for me and so I started working as a stripper at the strip club and it was the most degrading feeling of my whole life. I remember feeling like I felt so numb. I didn't even feel like a human being, I felt like an object. I had to be drunk every night to even get up there and do that, because it was a full nude club. Wow, and yeah, and I made a lot of money from it.
Speaker 2But I can tell you you were already a dancer. Yeah, I remember coming to you Dancing experience. I remember coming to your performance Dancing experience. Yeah, I had dancing experience, yeah.
Speaker 4When I was younger. Yeah, but it was the lowest point of my life and I was so, so lost and numb. I didn't know. I honestly didn't see a life for myself past the age of 18. Like, I did not know what my plan was going to be and I thought I had no purpose. And I remember one night it was it was after a night at the club where where a man like literally tried to, he tried to drug me, and I remember sitting in the back locker room like half naked, no-transcript him for so long I was like God, if you're real, I need you right now. I need you to help me get out of this. I cannot do this in my own strength. I cannot do this by myself. And slowly but surely, he, he helped me. He gave me the courage to quit the job and leave, and I was unemployed for two months, living off my savings. I reconnected with my foster parents, who had taken me in when I was 15 and rekindled my relationship with them and they let me back in their home. Um, but it was just, it was just so crazy.
Speaker 4And then, when my mom, when my mom invited me to church with her, I was still at a point where I was like, hmm, like I was like a church is kind of culty. I don't know about that because, like a lot of people make it seem like you have to follow these rules, you have to do this to be accepted or to be a part of it. You know, and that's totally not it. Jesus says come as you are, I will take you just the way you are, in your mess, in shambles, when you're broken, when you're carrying all your burdens. Like he wants that, he wants that messy part of you. That's the whole point of it and I brought it to him.
Speaker 4And that day my mom took me to church. I remember I was crying and I was like man, this is the most insane feeling I've ever felt in my life and it was just insane. He took me. It's like an instant. He took all of my shame away, all of my bitterness away, all of my addictions away. He took literally my add addictions to boys too, like he slowly worked on me and took that away and was like healing me from the inside out.
Speaker 4He took me when I was a mess, when I was going against everything that I that was what he was calling me to do and and the enemy would try to get into my head and make me believe that I was a victim and that I was an outcome of my life and what I experienced. He would make me think that I had no purpose. But Jesus called me by my name and he said you are loved and I have a purpose for you. Your identity is in me and when I realized that and when I came into a relationship with him and I gave my life to him, it was like everything lifted off of me. It was the most insane feeling and ever since that time I've been living my life for him and now I host a woman's Bible study at my house on Fridays.
Speaker 4I just had one last night and it was crazy because you said something about when you were in prison and you were at the lowest of lows and you were like really mad at God, and it reminded me that my Bible study last night was about how Jesus taught the multitude on the Sea of Galilee and right after he took all of His disciples and he said we're crossing over to the other side of this lake. He didn't say maybe we'll make it to the other side. He didn't say let's try.
Speaker 4He said we're crossing to the other side of this lake and the boat that they got in represents our faith and our walk with him. And when we step into our relationship with him, he promises to get us to the other side. Regardless. As long as he's on our boat, as long as we're with him, as long as we keep our eyes on him, he will carry us to the other side. And they had endured a storm in that lake and the disciples were like, terrified.
Speaker 1They were literally like um, yeah, and they were, and jesus.
Speaker 4Legit, they were in the middle of a storm and jesus was in the back taking a little nap. And they were like jesus, what the heck? We're in the middle of a storm, you're not going to save me, which reminded me of you saying that like, um hello, like I'm so mad at you, why would you put me in this?
Speaker 3But sometimes our choices make us end up certain. It's not his choice, it's our choices.
Speaker 4Yeah, but he always promises, as long as we have faith and we trust him that he's going to carry us through that storm. It says in Romans 8, 28 that in all things, god will work for the good of those who love him and who you know. And it's just like, as long as you love him, you keep your heart on him, like he will always work it out. And he's like proved that to me time and time again. And it's like a love, like he literally took a sinner like me and washed me with his grace and set me free from the shackles of my past. So that's why I always talk about it so much. I'm like that is like my passion. That is like he is like everything to me. He's. I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 4He has totally healed me and and he's like working through me, to the people around me and the women around me, and and it's just, it's a love, it's. It's a love like no other love, it's an eternal love, and he, he's just such a good father when I didn't have one and he really helped me with forgiveness, because in the Bible it says, oh, forgive others because I have forgiven you. And I was like, okay, but this person did this to me, like they put me through this. Why the heck should I forgive them? But then it reminded me of all the things, all the bad things that I did, and how reckless I was and how he literally said I don't care that you did this, I still love you. Right, yeah, and when I was like okay, and I chose to forgive my father, my dad.
Speaker 4Yeah, that's what I was just going to ask you guys both about was forgiveness.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, like how can yeah?
Speaker 3For both of you, like how, right, like okay. For me it's easy to hold on to those like grudges because, like my mom was an addict, my dad was an addict, you know, and I blamed my parents for a really long time for like my addiction right or the way that my life turned out right. These are the cards that you dealt me. So how, how was that process of like accepting and then like forgiving?
Speaker 1truthfully so. When I found out my when my grandma told me that my dad died, I was so afraid of him at the time and I was, I had grudges, I was. I didn't want to look him in the time and I was, I had grudges, I was. I didn't want to look him in the eye. I didn't want to answer the phone. And so when she said, well, I'm sorry to tell you, but your dad passed at 2 am this morning, or 2 this morning, and I said that's a relief. That was the first words out of my mouth, and that death did not hit me until about two years later.
Yeah hit me until about two years later. Yeah, and I started when I started growing into myself and growing out of the fear of him and comprehending that he was actually gone, and accepting is when I started thinking about him. As a kid, I started thinking about all the good moments, because that's part of grieving is you think about all the positives. And when I was thinking about all that, I just thought about like well, he's gone now and all of the negative things that he experienced and all the negative experiences he put me and others through is gone now and all I have is Sean, the person he was, the good parts of him left. So I kind of just since he was gone and I missed him so much and I was like just desperate to have a dad, I kind of just pushed all the negatives past him and forgave him. When I was like 13 years old, because I just so badly wanted a dad, I realized like I knew him sober for about two years of my life. So I really only knew my real dad two years and that helped me in forgiving him by seeing who he was as a person. Am I quiet? Yeah, it helped me to realize that he was a really good person and it was the drugs and the alcohol that turned him into someone different and I understand. I had a good understanding of what addiction does to people and the loved ones, so I was able to separate that from him and who he was and the love that he gave, and just be able to view him as him and like little Sean.
Speaker 1I always like to say this I saw a TikTok of this mom was filming her kid, a little like two year old boy, running in the sand on the beach and she's like all men start out like this. All people start out like this. Yeah, innocent, loving, curious. And life can make you jaded and it is entirely up to you if you want to go down that victim path, that addiction path, and then, once you're there, I understand how hard it is to get out Right.
Speaker 1And so with my dad, I just felt not sorry for him, but I did so even when I was little. I just felt so much empathy for him over. I hate you. Why do you have to die? I mean there always was moments where I'm like fuck you, dad. Our last call was pretty funny. He called me and my grandma's like your dad's on the phone and he was mad. He's like why haven't you been fucking answering the phone? And I just decided to Nice, to a 10-year-old, 11-year-old, really yeah, oh my gosh, I just decided to like mess with him, I don't know, and he goes.
Speaker 1He started calming down and we were having a normal conversation because I think I was in fourth or fifth grade at the time and he just goes do you have a boyfriend? And I just decided to go yeah, did you no? And he hung up on me and never called back and then he died.
Speaker 4And so that was the last time.
Speaker 1that was our last conversation, and so I just, instead of like hating him and you know, why did that have to be our last call? Why didn't he call All those things? Of course I had thoughts, but at the end of the the day, I was just grateful for the time I did have with him.
Speaker 1I was grateful to at least have had one more conversation. Yeah, and I just, I can't tell, like you said, it's a, it's God, it's something greater than yourself. Yeah, I like that forgiveness and that heart that I don't know where that came from.
Speaker 1It just was kind of always naturally there and when it came to you and forgiving you, I just have never looked at you for the addictions and the abandonment, whatever it was. I never looked at you like that. It was always way deeper than that. That's all the connection. It was never surface level, was always like I knew you were alive, when, even when we didn't talk for a year, I just felt it like I always had that deeper feeling of forgiveness, able, able to move with love and compassion. And I can't tell you where that came from and that's where I believe that it's God or it's you know, and I probably won't.
Speaker 1I might not ever know until I pass, or something will come to me like how he came to you, and it just hasn't happened to me yet. But yeah, it's something greater than myself that was able to keep me so open-hearted and vulnerable, and forgiving my dad was a tough one, though and I still to this day. I struggle with it, but I can say that I know he loved me and that is what makes it easy for me to forgive him do you think that like it was easier to forgive your mother 100%?
Speaker 3why do you think that like it was easier to forgive your mother A hundred percent? Why do you think that is?
Speaker 2I mean her dad was abusive, my dad was very abusive very neglecting.
Speaker 1He was not emotionally present.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1And he was very hard on me. He also didn't really support anything I wanted to do, like when I had soccer, when I had acting modeling, when I was like this big and pageants and anything that he just didn't want to put in the effort to drive me to those practices or to drive me to those pageants or to show up, or to show up.
Speaker 1And because it took time away from him and he had his own priorities and they were either drugs or women or alcohol. And so that part I'm like screw you. But I also know to not take it personal and I know that he, the love, was there, so that helps. But with my mom she, even when, like you said, we were in the RV and you were doing drugs, not in front of me but in the same vicinity and I was actually living in, you know, in the in the front of the RV there's a little bed that comes up above the or comes down above the driver's seat.
Speaker 1That was where I lived that whole time and I only had Liar, liar, pants Off Fire, the Jim Carrey movie to watch over and over and over again.
Speaker 3It's a good movie, right Until it's not, until it's not, and it's freaking sad when you you know I cried at that movie so many times.
Speaker 1Right. And then there was a night that I fell off that bed and hit my head, but you still loved me and you were still so supportive and you made sure I was fed and just the love was there and I never had to question if you loved me or not. I mean, there was a time but, like I said, whatever that greater purpose is, that greater energy, I always knew that you did love me, even when I was beginning to question it because you were gone and I never really believed that you chose drugs over me. I knew that you were lost and I always had faith that you would come back around.
So it was much easier for me to forgive you.
Speaker 1I never really needed to forgive you, because I was never what's the opposite of forgiving? Hating you Like resenting you. That was never even a thing. I was never afraid of you, I was never resenting you, so I never really had to forgive you.
Speaker 2Yeah, she was always just like every time we did talk, she just wanted me back.
Speaker 3Right, but that's because you were.
Speaker 4That's the saddest part.
Speaker 2You are a great mom and I didn know how to get back. You know, like that was the thing is I just like if someone had just given me like a path like said, go to this rehab and this is how you get her back, I would have done it in a second. Like you know how I talked about her all the time all the time, all I ever wanted like even if my head mom had said come here and stay clean, I would have got clean just to go back to her yeah like I just didn't know how I really didn't know how also she was keeping me from you as much well, yeah, she yeah, and I knew that and that was really hard.
Speaker 2My brother, that's what killed me.
Speaker 1She isolated me from everyone.
Speaker 2It was weird she would tell her, like, oh, if your mom loved you, she would have been here for your birthday party. And she would tell me she hated me.
Speaker 1She would tell me she was mentally ill and going to die. At the same time, I would beg to come.
Speaker 2And if she told, she would tell me if you come near this property I'll call the cops. So like telling her one thing telling her that I didn't show up.
Speaker 1Oh, and she would go into my therapist or counselor, whoever I was seeing at the time. She always went in first. And I was little, I had never been to a therapist before, I didn't know. That's not how that works, yeah. And then when I would go in, my therapist would have a clipboard and a pen and she wouldn't even really look at me. She would just be writing everything, reporting everything I said.
Speaker 3Later I found out that report went to the judge and won my grandma the court case over my dad.
Speaker 1Is that even legal? Like I don't think so. Like yeah, because otherwise I would have kept a lot to myself if I knew that was happening. Right, but one of the things she would go in and tell the therapist is obviously she would shit on my mom and then when I would go in, the therapist would talk me out of, try to talk me out of forgiving you, loving, expecting you to come back, and I would be in there trying to like. It almost felt like a debate, and this happened with two or three different therapists. It felt like I was debating them on why I should forgive and love my mom. And then there was this one time my high school therapist.
Speaker 1She would take me out of class, walk me around the school. I felt so loved and supported by her and I forget her name. Fuck that bitch. Sorry she would. She was so loving to me from freshman to junior year and all of a sudden, in senior year, between junior and senior, when shit got real with my grandma and I um, I didn't know that my grandma had gone to her and one day I I'm going into senior year or I'm graduating, can't remember and this counselor calls me because she had ghosted me for a while she wasn't calling me in class Nothing.
Speaker 1And also COVID happened. She calls me and she's like you lied to me and I was like, is this my therapist? Like what? And she was mad at me for making up lies about you and grandma. And when she I was like, can you please explain where you're coming from? It was regina's words about you to a t and I realized that she had done it again. She had gone to this therapist, turned her against me, made up some bullshit lie, right, and so it was that. And then when I saw those court papers actually only two years ago is when I realized that all my therapists were working against me, right. I kind of grew a resentment for therapy after that, but I'm more open to it now. But that's when I realized that maybe a lot that I've heard about you and Joker and Devin and my dad is lies through, right. So I know what I experienced with you.
Speaker 1I know what's real and what's not but she definitely tried to get me to hate you as much as she could and it didn't work sorry fail, epic fail, backfired.
Speaker 2yeah, she called me once and told me that you had gone to your counselor I think it was it was and then the vice principal. She got called into the school because you had told them that both your parents are dead and she's like just so you know, you might as well just stay away because she's considering you dead.
Speaker 3I'm like whoa, what the fuck?
Speaker 1Because I'm the one that said that yeah, oh, my gosh Like that hurt, that hurt bad.
Speaker 3Well, she knows how to hurt you.
Speaker 2She's like it's easier for her to think of you as dead. I'm like.
Speaker 1No, that's her.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1She's the one that couldn't cope. Yeah, she's the one that couldn't forgive and couldn't accept that it wasn't personal, and so she's the one that liked to view you as dead.
Speaker 2But she would put it on me. It's all right, we'll love her, we'll send her prayers of love.
Speaker 1Right, that's all we can do? Yeah, but that is what made it hard a lot of the time.
Speaker 2Talk about forgiveness, talk about forgiveness. That's a hard one, but we do. We just have to Right. That's still something.
Speaker 1Like, forgiveness, is a practice for sure yeah it is easier to forgive when you I've said this before when you view it as it's their own shit. It's not on you, it's not about you. Whatever they're doing, it's just a projection and they are lost yeah it's not to hurt you. They are hurt and that helps a lot.
Speaker 3Yeah, that's exactly how I view it too. Yeah, so how about you, kiani? How? How was it? Okay, annie, how was it forgiving, was it?
Speaker 2like hard to forgive me and your father. Wait, I really quick want to ask a question how, like when your parents because this is how, like we built, rebuilt our relationship the whole time I was in prison, so I know like you were struggling bad, but were you able to do that with your dad and your mom at all when they?
Speaker 4were in prison With my mom. Yeah, we had. I talked with my mom often and we would have video calls to so that I could see her her face. But with my dad it was very the calls were very inconsistent. It was always just kind of like sometimes, sometimes it's kind of sad because so I love him very dearly, but sometimes it would be like calling because he needed me to text someone or do something for him or like um, but it was always nice to talk to him. I I didn't really ever like take it like too personally. I tried to just let it go. But um, but yeah, with my, with my mom it was, I don't know. It wasn't hard to forgive you because you were like you were there more than dad was Um and you were like my best friend Um and yeah, you were literally my best friend, um, and I just was so much closer to you than I was with him, um, but yeah, I never really, because I had seen you.
Speaker 4There was a lot of times in my life where I did see you, sober and I did see what, what you could be when you weren't you know, on drugs.
Speaker 4So, uh, I knew that when, when you were using that, that just wasn't you. It's I mean like, like, I mean I I remember it from the Bible Like it's not, it's not um, the, it's not the person, it's the sin in them that makes them that right. And so, um, I just I knew I was not gonna. Maybe when I was younger and I didn't quite understand, maybe I was just like confused and like, uh, how could you do that? But I mean, once I got older and now that I'm here, I, I view it as like it's just, it's a sickness, you know like you were just sick and and I had seen you when you yeah, it is, and I had.
Speaker 4I had seen you when you were better. So I knew I didn't really like I just I more so just felt bad. I was just like. I was like man, like once I got older and I started understanding yeah just within the past couple years. When I look back at it, I'm like man, like I. Just I just felt so bad because it's like I know what it feels like to feel like there's no way out of a situation and you feel like you have to fill those voids and that emptiness and those holes with temporary good feelings or substances.
Speaker 4And I mean I did it for the longest time with sex at a very young age, with drinking and clubbing and partying, and none of it ever filled. There was a God-sized hole in my heart that I just could never, ever fill until I allowed God to fill it.
Speaker 3So so I have a another question for you. So so, when I was in my addiction, like I drug you through, right, Like you were with me, you and Cole were with me a lot of the time. A lot of the time you were with grandma too, right, or with me a lot of the time, a lot of the time you were with grandma too, right, I was getting loaded around you in the same house. You guys found paraphernalia like um, and then your dad was just like an absent parent, right, just would like pop in once a year, or whatever, right? So, from your perspective, is it any different? Yeah, which is better? Which is better?
Speaker 2So true, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3I always think about that because, I would always be like Joey, at least I'm here, right, and he's like, yeah, but I'd rather stay away because I don't want to be around them like that.
Speaker 1That's a good question.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's a good question and I'm like, well, someone's going to take care of them you know, and so I suit up and show up the best I could Do you know what I mean, but let's put this in perspective because, allison, you're very, very rare for a drug addict. You're a very like yeah, you still cook dinner, you still worked, you still went to work, you still made dinner, you still kept a house clean Like your house?
Speaker 3No, you don't know about that.
Speaker 2Okay, it's not comparatively now but you're super OCD. Yeah, I am now I mean her fridge is like organized.
Speaker 4I haven't seen it yet.
Speaker 2She's like can you put waters in the fridge? I'm like really bitch. She's like no, that one doesn't go there, because I put it right here.
Speaker 3It goes in a line single file.
Speaker 2Hey, that's gross, that's awesome. Everything has its place.
Speaker 4Labels facing forward, I'm.
Speaker 2ADHD.
Speaker 4So I'm like yes, I'm like no.
Speaker 1You don't understand, Same oh my gosh, we're opposites.
Speaker 2Yeah, I'm a self-made, yeah, but yeah, like so you. I mean just to put it in perspective, you still did a really good job mothering and, like the kids, got to school most of the time yeah, okay, but like you know what I mean. Like regularly, it wasn't like cps was being called on you because you were failing as a parent. The kids weren't abused. Yeah, right that. I mean you might have dropped them off at friend's house to go get your drugs. Occasionally.
Speaker 1From what I hear, yeah, I would say that kind of stuff when I first moved in with my grandma and I was making friends and starting sports and horseback riding and all these things. I was meeting so many people and I was so overwhelmed because I just came from an RV and then after that, a very abusive, neglecting home, and then into this, where my grandma had a ton of money so she got me into sports and school. Grandma had a ton of money, so she got me into sports and school. And when people like I would just find myself talking to people and they'd ask me questions and kids at that age are like you don't have parents, like what is that? Like blah, blah, blah, and I would just talk, I would say it so nonchalantly the stuff that I had been yeah, me too as a kid don't think about it don't think about it, right?
Speaker 1yeah, but then? So when I would see their reaction after telling them something that? Is totally normal to me. They're uncomfortable, they're weird.
Speaker 4I'm like oh yeah, my mom was just beating up my dad last night.
Speaker 3They're like, that's just like a normal thing, and then they're like she would literally beat him up, not him beating me up, no, she would beat him up, good, and Allison yeah, so as a kid, you normalize, oh God, I mean.
Speaker 1Whatever you're going through as a child, that's what's the normal to you, that's your life, that's all you know that life is. And so when I started realizing that that's not normal, none of that is normal.
Speaker 2You're all, oh, my God, I was like wait Right, Everyone's not on the same.
You don't live like. This doesn't happen to everybody. Yeah, what the fuck? You guys have parents. That's crazy. Um, they're not in prison. Yeah, well, at the time I was nine, turning ten, so so not yet but that was all. That was all I knew for the first 10 years of my life. But to answer your question, I feel like a present parent is a present parent.
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 1And that in itself goes a long way. And so if there is an abusive parent or a parent that is neglecting their kid and it's hurt it's emotions, his or her emotions, and I think it's better that the parent is absent in hoping, in hopes that that kid has a safer place to go. Parent is absent in hoping in hopes that that kid has a safer place to go because a kid needs to be cherished until they can start, otherwise they're molding all the wrong ways until they're able to start forming their own thoughts and opinions and
Speaker 1yeah, learning from other people. So if there's a parent that is just abusive mentally, physically, emotionally, I think in a lot of cases it's better that the parent's absent. But in your guys' case you were present, you were loving and supporting, and so us kids, we don't realize that drugs are bad, we don't realize that beer cans on the ground are that bad, because our parents love us and that's all we care about, that's all we notice, until we grow up and then it's like, oh shit, yeah, that wasn't normal, that was fucked up, I was fucking neglected this is bullshit but then again I mean and I'll let you answer that too but once you get to that point where you grow up and you start learning a lot more about life and like, wow, my parents were crazy We'll just put it nicely you were crazy.
Speaker 1That's when it's on you to either choose to become a victim and blame them, and blame everything that you went through to become, then go on and treat other, mistreat other people, or try to follow in their footsteps, whatever. All of that is up to you. So I know, as a parent, it's hard, because all the mistakes you made you blame yourself and how your kid turned out.
Speaker 3You tend to take a lot of accountability, for there's nothing to blame. You guys are amazing I'm just saying a joke we're pretty proud of ourselves.
Speaker 1Right, but it really is up to the individual, once they hit that age, to define who they are.
Speaker 3Because she was going through it like down a bad path right, and then she made that decision to like change her life. So while you, were absent.
Speaker 1Yeah, in that short time that you were not able to be there, you made that decision for yourself yeah, and so I'm assuming as a parent. That is so relieving but also it really even if there is a kid that chose to go way sideways when the parent went sideways, I can imagine the guilt, but that's not on us right, but it's not on the parent Right.
Speaker 2I mean no, because it really doesn't as long as we suit up and show up in love unconditionally, no matter what, through it right, right, yeah, and parent exactly so yeah, it's really not on the parent.
Speaker 1I mean, it's it's your duty, your duty, it's your obligation to do that. It's so fucking childish. It is your obligation to be there for your child and to love them. If you're gonna have sex and have a child, you need to prepare a lot of your life to be there, because that is your number one priority. Yeah, yeah, and as long as you are doing that to the best of your ability, it is not on you how your child turns out yeah, right, yeah, yeah, I mean like you can't control their decisions.
Speaker 2You can always only just like do the best, like all we can do, right?
Speaker 1now is be there our reactions like there are amazing parents out there and their kids are got influenced by someone to put.
Speaker 2To put it nicely, fucked up. Yeah, those kids got influenced by someone else because influence is a huge thing.
Speaker 1Huge and so it's not always on the parents.
Speaker 3Right, it's just, it is your obligation to do your best. But so what do you think? Yeah, absent or loaded, and present I mean painting my toenails, right.
Speaker 4Yeah, I don't know, I think for me it's a thing. Wait what. That is a thing. Wait what Tweaker.
Speaker 1Wait, no, okay.
Speaker 3So do you remember when you like walked in and I was like nodded out with my hip, got it? It clicked. Yeah, I actually looked at me like what are you talking about?
Speaker 4I'm like I'm not tripping, no no, I literally walked into my mom's room and she was like really high. That was when we were at the apartment right.
Speaker 1Yeah, I was in high school, yeah.
Speaker 4I was in high school and I walked in the room and I stood there for a minute before I said anything. She was standing up, literally folded in half. Her head and her arms were hanging down. She had a hair straightener in her hand and I was like mom, what are you doing? And you're like oh, I was just looking at my toenail girl. You were just hanging there like sleeping, standing up with the hair straightener in your hand.
Speaker 3I mean it's not funny, I mean we could laugh about it now. But I was just looking at my toe, I was just looking at me and I was like, okay, what's so interesting?
Speaker 4about your toe. I'm on to you. It's so funny because it's really really funny, because I knew like I grew up like around, like that, so I knew what was going on. And I just thought it was so like funny in the moment. I was like, whatever, that's a good one, though I was just looking, you were holding the straightener, you were doing your hair. No, literally. I said, Mom, what are you doing? You stood up.
Speaker 2You're like oh, I was just standing there All wide awake, all of a sudden. That's how it goes, though Straightening my toenails.
Speaker 3Oh, oh, you're straightening my toenails.
Speaker 4Literally. That's so funny.
Speaker 2Okay, well, back to the question.
Speaker 1Back to the question.
Speaker 4I think something when I look back at my childhood even if there was a lot of like, drama and a lot of stuff that I was going through or saw you do, you know, all I remember is that you were there Like, even though you because clearly like it wasn't, it wasn't just like like you were carrying a lot of burdens yourself and you, you know, started life off at a disadvantage and your parents were addicts and your dad passed away when you were young, and I mean off at a disadvantage and your parents were addicts and your dad passed away when you were young. And I mean that's a lot, and you just didn't know how to carry it and to deal with it, and so that just seemed like the easy way out sometimes. But what I always remembered was that you were there and you showed up even when you were at the lowest of lows, and even when you felt like you could not do it on your own and you had to resort to drugs, you still showed up.
Speaker 4And I remember that and I remember you trying your best, even when you were tired, even when you would even when I know I know, even when you were exhausted, even when you would go out clubbing and go to jail overnight because of a fight or something, you'd show up a day later I was like oh, hey, you're back in the same clothes you left in, but it's okay though.
But I knew that you were always going to show up and that's how I knew I could. Even though, like you know, like, even though I knew that I could rely on you to be there, I knew that you were going to keep the promises that you said, like I. But with dad it was a little different, because he was always like oh yeah, well, whenever I would talk to him, we'll do this and we'll go here, and next time I see you we'll do this, and then, or I'll show up this day and we'll spend the day together, and he would just never show up and we would never do the things. And it was always me hoping, hoping, hoping that he would show up and do something, and then being let down. And then hoping, hoping, hoping, being let down. And then, once I started to get older, I realized that I was dating a lot of men that were like my dad.
Speaker 4I literally said I started dating a lot of men who would say I love you so much, I care about you. And then they would cheat on me and I would forgive them because I wanted them to be better and to prove that they could be better, just like I did with my dad. And they would cheat on me again and then I would stay and it was just like this cycle of like. I was literally like a miserable cycle and, um, I think and I loved my dad too I don't think I ever really struggled with being angry towards you guys. I don't think I was ever like I hate you, just like let down.
Speaker 3Yeah, just disappointed and sad because I just remember so many times like your dad would call and yeah, and do make all these promises. And I'm not trying to bash him. No, it's just like there's no bashing, and I'm sure he would like own it.
Speaker 4He can own up to it now. You know now.
Speaker 3Because he's doing so well, but like I just remember him making these promises and like saying he's going to show up and then you guys would like like, be so sad.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3Just so sad Like and it made me so mad.
Speaker 2Yeah, you know. Oh yeah, because you're hurting your child. Yeah, because like I'm like, why?
Speaker 3the fuck, can't you just show up bro?
Speaker 3Like we're going to box, you know, but like do I have to kick your ass again? Yeah, but I just didn't understand. I like couldn't comprehend, like how could you not show up? Yeah, just because I would do. Yeah, even though I was so messed up and like so far gone and lost, and so, like, wrapped up in my own addiction and messed up things, mistakes, you know, like I just don't understand not showing up for your kids, like it just boggles my mind. But like everybody's different and everybody has their own journey and their own perspective. But you guys were just like, so, like still, yeah, like Koa just wants, like his dad's love and attention and then like, and it's still, even though he's like doing well, it's still a struggle.
Speaker 4Consistency is a hard thing for him that we've been talking about and praying through. But I it's also like.
Speaker 3But I understand, yeah, because, like everybody's different, everybody thinks different, everybody has their own issues that they deal with.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 3Right and like he didn't have like the best upbringing either, Right, so it's all he really knew was just. I mean, he told me All those promises his dad made and never showed up. And he would sit out there waiting and waiting, and waiting and he didn't show up.
Speaker 4Yeah, and that's all he knew, and that's what he thought it was supposed to be like.
Speaker 2I know like for me, with things like when, if there's things that I hear that I've done, sometimes I can go deeper into the shame of it, which makes it, you know, like that, it's hard to hear.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's really hard to hear, it's hard to hear.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's really hard to hear, but like if you can move past that shame and then push yourself into the next level of like okay, maybe I can just do a little better Like, maybe I can step this up into like I now know what they need. Taking accountability for us Huge right.
Speaker 1Oh my God, Like just to hear you say what you said to me the other night. I can't repeat it verbatim, but you were like I am so sorry, I don't know how I could have done that to you. I should have never done that to you. And then you kind of reiterated what you did and just hearing that you were taking accountability, without excuses, without defending yourself, just I already forgave you. But like at that point I'm like God, like it's past us now. Mom.
Speaker 4Like gave you.
But, like at that point I'm like god, like it's past us now, mom, like it did damage I've healed, I'm still going to be healing, you're still going to be healing, but, holy shit, we're past this. Like thank you. It means so much to take accountability for things and to be able to say I'm sorry, like you have preached.
Speaker 2It's very important to say I'm sorry, yeah, and mean it. Yeah, it's, it's some of it's hard for me to own. You know what I mean like, and it's just it's like a process because it like I've I mean been doing this the whole time I was in prison, like I've been going like little bits as it comes up, like making you know amends for all the different things that come up as they come up, but but like the really like hard stuff you know, like as it comes up, I just keep having to. You know like I want it. It's all you can do right is go.
Speaker 2Okay, I did that too.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, I did that too I did that too, you know like oh, yeah, oh yeah, and then there's that, yeah, there's so much you know there's so much, but it helps and um helps both of us it really yeah, well, that's I mean why I do it, but it does definitely help both of us yeah it does, because when you can, when you can own it, you can move past it you can.
Speaker 3You can get past it. Yeah, did you ever finish answering the question? I don't know, oh, yeah guys no like yeah what would you? What would you prefer, absent or someone low?
Speaker 4I mean I think it would have been nice to have dad around a little more when I was younger. But I also understand too that, like I mean me and him were talking about it the other day and every time I talk about it with him and stuff from the past, he's like dang Keoni I can't believe I did that, or he'll be like I'm so sorry, like that's just horrible. He's like dang Keone I can't believe I did that, or he'd be like I'm so sorry, like that is just horrible. He's like I feel awful. That's just. He's like I just never want to hurt you ever again. Like it just breaks my heart and and and he would tell me like I mean he would. He would talk about his I don't want to say names his baby mama yeah, and how she was, you know, struggling and which there's updates on that. Yeah, like now, which is good.
Speaker 3I've heard she's doing good.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 4I've been talking to her and she's been coming to church Just for an update.
Speaker 2you have a little brother, yes. How old is he?
Speaker 4now Six.
Speaker 2Carter Carter's six yeah.
Speaker 4He is. He's doing pretty well.
Speaker 2I don't know that we gave our audience and like a perspective that your dad also went to prison.
Speaker 4Yeah, federal prison so me and allison and her dad were all in federal prison yeah, yes, my dad was in for five, did five years and then I really wish I knew you while they were gone.
Speaker 1Yeah, I know, holy shit. Well, here we are. Everything happens for a reason.
Speaker 4But yeah, I think I think I appreciated you being there, but I also understand like I mean me and him were talking about it the other day about how, like the drugs make you numb, like they make you someone that you're not, they make you not care about things. They make you not like think about what you're actually doing. You just it's a. It makes you kind of very selfish Like me, me, me, me me. How can I make it easier for me? How can I make it feel better for me?
Speaker 3How can I yeah, and so you just kind of forget, yeah, like and then you just kind of forget about the people around you.
And it was also a lot of shame. He I knew that he felt very shameful and he was trying to hide from it, um, like so I mean you guys dealt with it differently. But I mean now, by the grace of God, like both, you both have owned up to it. And, um, my dad, just recently, like when he got out, um, it was a little rough transition from from uh prison to being out in the real world again and and he was, he stumbled a bit. Um, but the past couple of months he, um, we've been, I've been trying to really keep in touch with him, um, and we've been having really good conversations Um, and he's taken accountability for a lot of things and owned up to a lot of things.
Speaker 4And I always want him to know, though, that he I don't view him Like, I never want him to feel shameful, to come to me, because when I think about it, like before I used to be so angry. I'm like you're an adult, you should know better, which is some somewhat true, but when that's all you've known your whole life, it's kind of hard to know better. And then I was like praying about it one time and, like God told me, look at them and view them the way that I do as my child, as as as just a child, like this is their first time at life to learning everything Like this is their first time, like learning and like navigating, and like trying to get themselves back up on their feet after being off of their feet for 40 years.
Speaker 4My dad, you know this is the first time he's been well ever since he started using yeah.
Speaker 4And and um, and so I just that gave me so much peace. And so I'm like, okay, even though I could sit here and be frustrated with him or be angry at the inconsistency, or whatever, I'm just gonna, the Lord will give me the peace and I'm you know what, I'm going to think of ways that I can show up for him and and it just makes life easier for me and for him. It's helped him and now he comes to church. He got baptized, um, uh, the day before my birthday in.
Speaker 4August Um, and it was insane because the day of his baptism he lived in a, in a home, uh, with other men in recovery like a rehab.
Speaker 4Um, and he wanted everyone to come and see him get baptized, cause we had planned it.
Speaker 4So he brought like four friends with him and, uh, um, they all came to the, to the church, and I baptized him with my friend Darius and but before it happened, before the baptisms happened, we went to get like food beforehand and I was talking to them about it and I was like telling them the importance of it and what it means and and and like how it's just an outward expression of an inward change and how God has changed your life. And, um, and I was just kind of the Holy spirit, like it just get. I just did this little motivational speech and and then all of his guy friends were like we want to get baptized too. And all of I baptized four of them, I think there was four of them and all that same day in the same pool. And it was the most insane like, and it was crazy like all watching them come out of the water with the smiles on their faces and I'm like, dad, like you are washed clean of your past.
Speaker 4You are a new creation in him and like you are, you are not. I just want him to know you are not defined by the mistakes that you made before. Like this is a step forward into a new life. Like, do not associate yourself with what you used to be, do not feel shameful about it, do not feel bad about it. Like I'm over it. You can be over it. Let's be over it. It was amazing and it's really good to let things go, cause I feel like when you hold onto unforgiveness, you're just you're. You're binding yourself up and it's just. It's heavier on you than it is.
Speaker 3You're the only one that has to sit with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, cause the other person probably doesn't even care most of the time.
Speaker 1I have a question and it's to keep it real. So we're talking a lot about forgiveness and moving on and taking accountability but. I want to go to the other side of the spectrum about trust. Okay, because that's something I struggle with.