Toby Doeden - Unfiltered

Episode 5

• Toby Doeden - Unfiltered • Episode 5

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In this episode, we discuss all things Bitcoin:
-what it is and how it came about
-how the U.S. money supply will continue to drive up the price
-the volatility associated with it
-future price predictions
-the importance of self research
and more!

05:30 - Exploring Bitcoin Basics with Jackson Doeden
07:53 - Bitcoin Basics and Supply Limit
12:52 - Bitcoin Investment Rationalization Conversation
26:39 - Bitcoin Security and Investment Strategies
41:23 - Global Impact of Bitcoin Ownership
54:02 - Bitcoin Price Predictions and Analysis

Speaker 1:

What an amazing place we live in South Dakota. My mission statement is simple To re-energize the true conservative values in South Dakota. You're listening to Toby Doden Unfiltered. If you're in the market for a new or pre-owned vehicle, check out the Aberdeen Chrysler Center. Aberdeen Chrysler Center has grown to one of the largest car dealerships in the Midwest and they deliver free of charge within 300 miles. Call them today or check them out online at AberdeenChryslercom.

Speaker 1:

Well, here we are, week five of Toby Doden Unfiltered. I am your host, toby Doden, and I am very, very happy that you have joined us again today. First, I want to thank all of the loyal listeners and viewers that have tuned in the last four episodes. I am very well, I'm surprised, I'm very happy, I'm very thankful. The staff's been working hard around here. Episode four had over 400,000 video views in the state of South Dakota. That is a tremendous number for a podcast that literally started a month ago. So we are. I didn't expect it. To be honest, I'm humbled by it. You know, sometimes we just talk about things that we think are interesting. We, you know, said from the beginning this is largely going to be a South Dakota podcast, but I love talking about national stuff too, and we've talked about national stuff, we've talked about politics, we've talked sports, like you name it. We've talked about it, and each week our viewership continues to get bigger and bigger. So thank you very much. I really really do appreciate you taking time out of your day to listen to our nonsense, and so today, episode five, is going to be a little bit different than what we've done in the past. Here's why Next week and I'm hoping that this thing is released before Christmas so everybody can listen to it over the holiday Next week we are doing a very, very long and very detailed interview with Kevin Jensen, you know, digging into the information about the proposed new $1 billion maximum security prison that the state of South Dakota, specifically Governor Noem, is trying to push to be built, and so I admittedly didn't know as much about the prison project as what I needed to.

Speaker 1:

So I've taken the past couple of weeks to educate myself on the new proposal, on the existing facility, and having Kevin Jensen on, who has made a name for himself around the state the last several months, talking out about the prison, it's going to be a fantastic interview. You're not going to want to miss it. So this week, because we had so much prep going on for next week, we decided to shorten this thing up a little bit, and when I sat down and started looking at topics, it became very, very clear that we needed to talk more about Bitcoin. Bitcoin's been around for a long time. Bitcoin Bitcoin's been around for a long time. I've been buying Bitcoin for years. I've been mining Bitcoin for years, but in the last month or two, I've had more people reach out to me asking specifically about Bitcoin than I had in the last four or five years combined, I think, with Bitcoin hitting the $100,000 plateau, which you know for the Bitcoin purists you know people that have been into Bitcoin since the inception or at least very early 2012, 2014, 2016,. $100,000 Bitcoin was kind of like that first. $1,000 Bitcoin was kind of like that first, like super significant goal to hit, and so I think when that happened, the media picked it up, a lot of influential people picked it up and just the regular common folk all the way.

Speaker 1:

Here in South Dakota, lots of people are talking about Bitcoin. Well, admittedly, I am not not what anybody would consider a Bitcoin expert. I have spent a fair amount of time investigating Bitcoin. I have read everything I could find on Bitcoin, and I understand it quite well. But if we're going to do like a full segment on Bitcoin, I wanted to bring somebody on that knew as much about Bitcoin as anybody I knew, and so we're going to talk to an individual next who is undoubtedly a Bitcoin expert. Funny is, he doesn't like being called a Bitcoin expert, but when somebody knows more about a subject than everybody else that you know, I couldn't think of another word. So we're going to call him a Bitcoin expert because that's exactly what he is.

Speaker 1:

So, without further ado, I'm going to introduce you to our guest today, and you're not going to want to miss this. We are going to talk about the very basics of Bitcoin. We're going to talk about what Bitcoin is. We're going to talk about the significance of Bitcoin and, most importantly, we're going to talk about the significance of Bitcoin and, most importantly, we're going to talk about why and how a beginner can buy Bitcoin. All right, so I'm back. We're going to introduce our guest, our guest today.

Speaker 1:

Some of you probably recognize him. Many of you outside of Aberdeen most likely do not. This guy I've known for a very long time. Approximately how old are you? 28? 28. Okay, so I've known him 28 years because he happens to be my son. This is Jackson Doden. Jackson is the aforementioned Bitcoin expert. A little bit about Jackson, and then we'll get right into it. I want to pick his brain. I think he's going to be able to make some sense of everything that is Bitcoin to a lot of the newbies out there that don't really have any idea what it is.

Speaker 1:

So Jackson started getting interested in Bitcoin about a decade ago, give or take, and I remember when he was in college calling me, imploring me to buy Bitcoin, and I remember the first time he told me about it I had absolutely no idea what Bitcoin was. So I literally remember Googling it and seeing it and originally I thought Bitcoin was an actual coin and I'm like so is this like a gold coin that they you know that they imprint this B logo on the top, like literally and I will guarantee you with a hundred percent certainty, jackson, there are people watching this right. Guarantee you with 100% certainty, jackson there are people watching this right now that literally think Bitcoin is a coin. Because that's what I did. You know I'm kind of an idiot, but I'm not a super idiot, so I think it's likely that there's a lot of people out there that thought that and so he used to call me Dad you got to buy Bitcoin. You got to buy Bitcoin Fast forward.

Speaker 1:

All these years later, he finally, about four years ago, talked me into buying Bitcoin. He then started a Bitcoin mining facility and I bought a bunch of Bitcoin mining machines. So we mine Bitcoins. We're going to talk about mining. So, without further ado, jackson, thank you for being here today and if you wouldn't mind, just give us a quick rundown on kind of how you found Bitcoin and what kind of was the trigger for you to say, hey, I need to learn more about this product.

Speaker 2:

It's possible that I subconsciously heard about it before, but the first time I remember actually hearing about it and remembering it would have been in 2016. Me and some of my buddies at college actually used to gamble on this website, and to gamble on the website, you had to buy Bitcoin, send the Bitcoin over to the website to be able to gamble. You can't just send dollars there. So that's the first time I kind of ran into it. Unfortunately, it wasn't until later actually 2020, kind of my second touch on it. The second time I heard about it is when I kind of realized, hey, maybe this thing deserves a deeper look. Maybe I should see what is this act, what is Bitcoin, and you know what I?

Speaker 1:

mean yeah, well, that's a great transition, because the first like actual question I wanted to ask you and this is going to sound very simplistic, the first actual question I wanted to ask you and this is going to sound very simplistic, but again, I think largely, I think most of the folks that are going to watch this interview are largely going to be not only newcomers to Bitcoin, but quite literally are going to be where I was at five years ago, where I knew nothing about Bitcoin. So that question is what is Bitcoin?

Speaker 2:

Well, bitcoin is money. Obviously, there's a little more to it than that. It's a digital currency or store of value, or whatever you want to call it. You know it's not like dollars, where they're issued by a government, controlled by a government, or a central bank, where payments are all routed through banks and processed through banks. What Bitcoin is is a digital currency, digital money, where it's completely decentralized. Not a single entity can control it or issue it or stop you from using it. It's completely permissionless and, basically, it's all run on what's called the blockchain, which is a fancy word for a digital ledger Gotcha.

Speaker 1:

So I think one of the first things I learned about Bitcoin that got my attention. You know, as somebody who has an investment group, and you know we invest money into property and businesses and all kinds of stuff, and when you have businesses and when you have an investment group, like we always have to have X amount of liquid capital to operate our businesses right. Ups and downs, ebb and flows of business. You know market conditions change all kinds of things. So, like as a business owner, like we always have excess cash sitting around right, but it's not like we can just go blow it Like this is for developing, this is for a rainy day, this is, you know, to pay down high interest debt. You debt whatever we're doing with it. And so, as a business owner that's always looking for the best place to put your cash or your liquidity, where it's not going to depreciate like cash does.

Speaker 1:

I found out that the amount of Bitcoin that can be mined for all the history of time is 21 million Bitcoin, and every four years, the amount of Bitcoin that can be produced, or mined, so to speak, gets cut in half. So can you just talk a little bit about when that started. When the last Bitcoin is going to be mined? How much of the 21 million Bitcoin are currently mined?

Speaker 2:

Well, bitcoin first became known to the world back in October of 2008, when Satoshi Nakamoto the pseudonym for the person or group of people who created it released the Bitcoin white paper explaining what it is what it's supposed to do Currently. I'd have to go look at the exact number, but there's somewhere between 19.5 million and 20 million coins that are already in circulation, out of a total of 21 million. That will ever be possible, and the last Bitcoin that will ever be mined or created won't actually happen until around the year 2140, after we're all gone.

Speaker 1:

So, roughly, we're at like 95%. Yeah, somewhere right in there. Yeah, of all the Bitcoin that will ever be available has already been mined. Yes, and because every four years, the amount of Bitcoin that is mined, yes, uh, and the last, and because of every four years, the amount of bitcoin that is mined gets cut in half, yep. So if you were to just google this and say you know how many bitcoin are being mined per day right now, and then it would show you. You know, all the way through 2140. It literally cuts in half every four years, and then by the end of that hundred, you know all the way through 2140, it literally cuts in half every four years, and then, by the end of that hundred, and you know, whatever 16 years from now, there will be no more supply added to Bitcoin.

Speaker 1:

So, you know, talk a little bit about you know. I mean, you know everybody talks about fiat currency, right, I mean cash essentially the federal government of the United States, and listen, it's not just the United States government. This happens all over the world. But listen, we live in America, so when we talk about things, we're gonna talk about things that are happening in our country the most money that's ever been printed in a five year period, and when I say printed, I mean created by the federal government. Somebody at the Fed can literally hit a button and can make billions of dollars just appear on a ledger. Right.

Speaker 1:

When I was young and naive and I think, well, the federal government is printing cash I had these visions of like thousands of people, like in a steamy, dark, sweaty basement, like cutting bills you know up and like no it's, it's all digital. In fact, the overwhelming majority of American capital is digital. It's never been in paper form, right. So like when people think, well, there's X amount of dollars in the American economy, almost all that like I think the number is nearly 90% of all US currency is digital money already right? Very little is cash, right.

Speaker 1:

If everybody in Aberdeen ran to their bank and requested to empty their balances with cash, the bank wouldn't have the cash to give it to them. No, right? So it's kind of scary when you think about it. So when Bitcoin came along, people that had been in business for a long time, or just regular people that were trying to save money, that were trying to get ahead, that were trying to save for retirement, by the time you pay your investment fees and you know the money is deflating every year, it seemed almost impossible for the average person to get ahead, right? So is that one fact, the fact that Bitcoin has a finite supply and the US dollar has an infinite supply? In your opinion, is that the number one factor as to why people should look into Bitcoin.

Speaker 2:

I think, if not the biggest, it's right up there Absolutely. I mean, like you said, every single minute, day, week, year, insert time frame that goes by, there are more dollars than there were previously and, like you said, there's only ever going to be a maximum of 21 million Bitcoins. So if you have a dollar supply that's just continuing to grow and a Bitcoin supply that's staying exactly the same over time, these incremental dollars coming into the system are going to bid to purchase Bitcoin and that's going to drive the price up over time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So one of the things that has given me confidence about owning Bitcoin and investing in Bitcoin and mining Bitcoin the last four plus years is you know, clearly it's very, very volatile.

Speaker 1:

It's one of the most volatile assets in the world and I think a lot of time people just like that's what they focus on, sure, and so they see the volatility and they're like I don't want any part of that, right, and so what Bitcoin purists have been able to do is to get to that point where they're disciplined enough where they can look at specific increments and analyze their return on investment.

Speaker 1:

So, if you look at Bitcoin at the end of every year, or at the end of every two years, or at the end of every four years, it has literally outperformed every investment asset in the world since 2010. Depending on how you look at it, the annualized returns have been in excess of 200% on average, right? So, like there are people that are investing in mutual funds, real estate, bonds, treasuries, getting 3%, 5%, 8%, 10%, like was always kind of the standard, like if you can get a 10% return on your money, right? So there's a lot of people out there, jackson, that are getting 5% CDs or 10% in their real estate that are like well, I don't like the volatility. Does the volatility really matter if, every four years, your asset went up 200, 400, 600, 800% versus eight or 10%? I know that sounds really simplistic, but is it as simple as just buy the damn Bitcoin and forget about it and then just check it every few years?

Speaker 2:

Literally, it's that simple. Yeah, no, just like everything, the mainstream media tries to throw everything out of you know, out of whack. The way they'll report on it is, you know, you go back to 2013,. The price went from, like you know, sub $100 all the way up to $1,200. And then over the next couple, two, three years after that, it came back all the way down to $200. And they reported that it crashed. You shouldn't buy it.

Speaker 2:

And then again in 2017, it went all the way up to $20,000. And then it crashed all the way down to $3,000. And then again in 2020, all the way up to almost 70,000, all the way back down to 15. And here we are over 100,000 again today. But every single time, the media will have you believe it's an asset not worth owning, it's a scam, it's all fake, you shouldn't buy it. But what they failed to realize is that, if you zoom out a little bit and you look at it over the course of, like you said, four years, five years or hell, even longer 10 years, 15 years, that's the timeframe you need to have when investing in Bitcoin.

Speaker 1:

So we're going to put up on the screen here, while I'm talking about this, a Facebook post that I put on my Toby Doden for South Dakota Facebook account several days ago and, as you're looking at it on the screen, I'll read through this. It says put fear aside and rationalize Bitcoin. $1 Bitcoin it'll never hit $10. And then, when Bitcoin got to $10, everybody what I mean? Everybody, institutions, people, media it'll never hit $100. And then it got to $100 and everybody media it'll never hit a hundred dollars. And then it got to a hundred dollars and everybody said it'll never get to a thousand dollars. And then it got to a thousand dollars. Then everybody said it'll never hit 10 grand. And then it hit 10 grand and people like me said it will never hit a hundred grand.

Speaker 1:

And then it hit a hundred grand and people are saying what it's never going to hit a million.

Speaker 2:

It's never going to hit a million. And then it's going to hit a million.

Speaker 1:

And what are people going to say? It's never going to hit 10 million. It's never going to hit 10 million. So, like, we got a lot of traction on that post. I think right now we have over 800 comments and you know, this was one of the driving factors as to why I knew we need to talk about Bitcoin today, because I probably had two and a half or three dozen DMs just on Facebook off of this one post.

Speaker 1:

My husband wants to buy Bitcoin. Can you help him? My son, my cousin, hey, can you help educate us? And I'm not an investment advisor, so I'm never going to give somebody investment advice.

Speaker 1:

And so, like, do I own Bitcoin? Yes, why? Because I did the research, I learned the dynamic principles of Bitcoin and I liked what I saw. It made sense. And so, as Jackson said, when you zoom out to a 10 or 20,000 foot view and you get out of the muck, so to speak, and you stop listening to your neighbor, who's negative, you stop listening to the guy that you ran into at church, who's super negative, like, generally speaking, human beings are deathly afraid of change, and so you have to just take all of the negativity, all the negative people in your life specifically about Bitcoin, and you have to stop listening to them and you have to do your own research right? So when you and I first really started talking about Bitcoin and when I first heard about Michael Saylor Michael Saylor and I Michael Saylor, for those of you that don't know, is the most alpha Bitcoin investor on planet Earth and it's not even close. He's the CEO and founder of a software company called MicroStrategy, and we're not going to get into detail about how Michael Saylor has leveraged his software company into becoming one of the largest holders of Bitcoin in the history of planet Earth. So if you Google Michael Saylor, if you haven't heard of him, it's absolutely intriguing.

Speaker 1:

But Michael Saylor and I had an aha moment about the same time. It was around 2020. The difference is Michael Saylor had hundreds of millions of dollars to buy Bitcoin and I was an idiot car salesman. So I was able to start buying Bitcoin, but not on the scale he did. So I was able to start buying Bitcoin, but not on the scale he did.

Speaker 1:

But two independent people, a super, super rich billionaire and then some guy from Aberdeen, south Dakota, bumped into the same information Books like the Bitcoin Standard. Michael Saylor said he did 1,000 hours of research on Bitcoin. Personally, I did probably 100 hours over a on Bitcoin. Personally, I did probably a hundred hours over a three or four month period and by the time I got done, I was a hundred percent sure that not only was this asset called Bitcoin going to continue to increase in value forever, but it was, in very short order, going to start passing the market cap of commodities like silver, gold, etc. So right now in the world there's a market cap of about $1.7 trillion in silver. The market cap on Bitcoin is pushing two trillion, I think it's actually just over two now, yeah around two.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so there's more value of bitcoin in the entire world than silver. Yes, okay, gold, right, gold is the standard, no pun. The largest asset managing company in the history of planet Earth. They have $12 trillion in assets that they manage. In the last year, blackrock has bought 540,000 Bitcoins. 540,000 Bitcoins, that's what North of $50 billion worth of Bitcoin Through their ETF, right Through their ETF. Yeah, that's what they. I mean, they custody 540,000 Bitcoins. So, like how much? If there's somebody watching at home today that quite literally knows nothing about Bitcoin other than it's something you can buy and it's very controversial? Like, how much time do you think they would legitimately have to dedicate to learning the fundamentals of the American dollar and Bitcoin to become comfortable enough to buy this asset?

Speaker 2:

You know that's going to vary by person and you know what they kind of know before they start looking into this. You know you'll see interviews of people saying you need 100 to 1,000 hours worth of research to fully understand it, and you know they're not wrong to truly understand every little detail about it. That's probably about what you'd need, but to become comfortable with the investment of it, you know, for the average person you're maybe looking at 10 hours, 15 hours, 20 hours tops worth of time before you'll really feel comfortable with, at the very least, the economics of Bitcoin.

Speaker 1:

So Jackson is the general manager of Aberdeen Chrysler Center. Thank you for you and your company sponsoring this episode of the podcast. I appreciate it. We never thought we were going to sell sponsorships, but we also didn't think we were going to get 400,000, 500,000 video views within the first three or four episodes either. So our production costs are skyrocketing because you know we have plans to travel around the state, you know, and do these remotely, you know lining up guests and there's just a lot of expenses. So we're like well, like, if 500,000 views are happening and listen, that's views, right, if you really want to dig into the analytics, which I'm not going to do but you know we have like 80 to a hundred thousand people engaging, meaning they have, they have taken an action on a social media account interacting with this podcast, and so like, like somebody said, toby, with those kinds of numbers like there are, there are, there are companies out there that would line up to advertise in South Dakota, that have your same beliefs and your same views on the world, like they're going to want to advertise on your show. So I'm like well, if we're going to bring the general manager of one of the largest car dealerships in the entire Midwest on this podcast, talk about Bitcoin. We can at least fleece you a little bit for some sponsoring dollars. So thank you for doing that. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

So one thing that people talk about all the time is fear, fear, forget about Bitcoin. Fear is the single largest driver of human behavior in the history of mankind. I'm not a psychiatrist, I'm not a psychologist and I'm not going to ask you folks at home to lay on your couch, close your eyes, but it's a fact. People don't do things because of fear. Sure, conversely, people do things because of fear.

Speaker 1:

Right, I have to do this or I'm going to lose my job. I have to do this or I'm going to get in trouble. I have to make my bed or my parents are going to ground me. Or they don't do things like I'm not going to invest in Bitcoin because I can't. If I lose all my money, my wife's going to leave. Like everything is done. Like 90 plus percent of the people on planet Earth make most of their decisions one way or the other based on fear. So what would you tell people sitting at home today that are like I got 500 bucks. I got 1500 bucks. I have a tax return coming in March for $3,800. And I want to buy Bitcoin but I am scared to death because I'm afraid I'm going to lose it. Like, how secure is Bitcoin? How?

Speaker 2:

secure is Bitcoin. I feel like that's kind of a loaded question. The actual Bitcoin network itself you know exchanges and you know brokerage accounts aside the actual Bitcoin network itself is the most secure computer network on planet Earth. There's something like six, seven, eight hundred exahashes worth of computing power that are securing the network. I mean, if Bitcoin were to be hacked, then so too will be nuclear launch codes will also be hacked. Like if Bitcoin gets hacked, there's nothing safe on the internet or on computers in the entire world.

Speaker 1:

That's crazy, and when I dug in, that was one of my primary questions. I'm going to put money into something I'm not really comfortable with, and I'm not comfortable because I haven't spent enough time learning about it yet. But even after I did learn about it, one of the first things I studied was how secure is the blockchain? Like, how secure is my wallet? Like, wherever I decide to custody these Bitcoin, how secure is it? So I mean a simple Google search or Grok. I like to use Grok for research. It's a little shout out to Elon Musk here. It's X's, formerly Twitter. It's their AI platform. It's called Grok, g-r-o-k, and it's wonderful because not only does it have all the preset data that ChatGPT has, but it also is learning real time from all the tweets. When somebody tweets, that tweet can instantaneously show up in an AI result, right? Well, I asked artificial intelligence what the odds are of Bitcoin, a Bitcoin wallet, being hacked, and they gave me a big, long answer. I'm just going to give you this little abbreviated part. The odds are similar to you winning the Powerball nine times in a row. That's a stat that was given by MarketWatch in 2018. That's a stat that was given by MarketWatch in 2018. So these 500, 800, sometimes a billion dollar Powerball tickets if you went in every week for nine straight weeks and bought a random Powerball ticket and won the big Powerball nine straight times in a row, the chances of that happening are better than somebody hacking your Bitcoin, like that's safe. So, do you have money in a savings account? Bitcoin is safe. Do you have, do you own gold in your basement? Bitcoin is safer. Like Bitcoin is as safe as any other digital asset.

Speaker 1:

As Jackson said, if they can hack a Bitcoin encryption, they can hack anything on planet Earth, right. And so there's a lot of talk about quantum computing, all this kind of stuff. Well, first of all, quantum computing is not just going to just drop in our labs tomorrow with the type of power to hack in you know to you know our national defense system, right? So there's you know. Know, like encryption from 50 years ago would have gotten hacked by today's technology, right? Well, why? Why weren't you know? Why weren't people freaking out 30, 40, 50 years ago about stuff getting hacked? Well, because, over time, they were able to keep strengthening and strengthening and strengthening their firewalls, right? So, uh, that that is just one thing I did. Did the research? Clearly you have.

Speaker 1:

I know other people that have and that used to be my number one concern. It's not my least concern Right Right Now. My biggest concern is, you know, waiting for banks to be able to collateralize Bitcoin so people like me can go into my local bank and can borrow against the Bitcoin without having to sell it. Because if you buy an asset whether it's a stock, whether it's a home, whether it's Bitcoin it goes up in value and then, when you sell it, our greedy federal government wants to tax us on the profit. Right, right, if you never sell the asset, you never have to pay the capital gain tax. You can borrow against an asset. You can borrow against equity in an apartment building and take the equity out through a loan and never pay capital gains tax. You can do the same thing with Bitcoin. Right now. There's maybe a couple of dozen lenders that I've been able to find that are willing to do Bitcoin as collateral, but they're not banks. It's not a federal deal. It's just some whack job lender that's willing to charge a 22% interest to take a 30% loan-to-value position on your Bitcoin.

Speaker 1:

Michael Saylor talked about this recently in an interview and they were talking about what the current price of Bitcoin was Michael Saylor. By the way, I keep mentioning his name. I hope a lot of you take the time to if you haven't already take the time to learn about Michael Saylor. He's clearly probably the world's foremost experts in everything Bitcoin, currency, fiat, all that stuff. So he was doing an interview recently and he said that there were three things that had to happen for Bitcoin to get to $5 million. Yes, you heard that. Right, we hit an all-time high today of $108,000,. Right, we're doing this on Tuesday. So $108,000, we had an all-time high today. Michael Saylor says that we are going to hit $5 million per Bitcoin when these three things happen. So I want to tell you these three things, jackson, and I want to get your thoughts. Number one spot ETF approval, which we already have. Yep, that happened earlier in 2024.

Speaker 1:

This interview, I think was in 2023. Number two we need fair value accounting rules. And lastly, what I just talked about banks custody and lend against Bitcoin as collateral.

Speaker 2:

Sure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so like, do you agree with Michael Saylor? Like, yes, clearly the spot ETF has been a contributing factor. To what extent, we don't know, because we were in a bull cycle. Anyway, let's just take these one at a time. So, number two fair value accounting rules.

Speaker 2:

Like like like, how would that affect the price of Bitcoin? Fair value accounting rules are going to make corporations, I would assume are going to make corporations more willing to own it. I would assume are going to make corporations more willing to own it before these changes. If you bought Bitcoin at $10,000 per coin, however many of them that you bought, they're now on your books, on your balance sheet, valued at whatever you paid for them, and they don't change. So if they go way up, you don't actually get to show that you profited and stuff like that.

Speaker 1:

And vice versa. If they go down, you don't get to show the loss. The third one is banks custody and lend against Bitcoin as collateral. To me, this is the most important. That's a big one, because there's a lot of people like Toby Doden who have bought Bitcoin.

Speaker 1:

I feel very fortunate because I had people like you that helped push me to the point where I wanted to learn and I wanted to understand it. And then I had the I don't know what the word is. At the time it seemed a little crazy. A little crazy, but as I learned more and more about it, I just kept essentially taking almost all of my cash reserves from all of my companies that I knew I wasn't going to need anytime soon, and we just converted it from cash to Bitcoin. So I have a lot of Bitcoin, my company's custody of Bitcoin, my company's custody, a lot of Bitcoin right, and I absolutely don't want to sell it because I'm going to get a massive tax bill.

Speaker 1:

So for me, as a developer, as somebody who buys businesses, buys real estate, if I could go to Dakota Bank, for example, in Aberdeen, south Dakota, and I could take out a loan against my Bitcoin, just like it was a $30 million apartment building. That would be a game changer for the Doden Investment Group Because I could take the money I could borrow against my Bitcoin assets and I could use that money to do more development in and around the Aberdeen area. So is it like do you agree that the banks being able to custody and lend against Bitcoin is going to be a massive factor in Bitcoin absolutely going to the moon?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Yeah, Kind of like you said. I think it would bring more people. If you can borrow against your Bitcoin effectively in a safe way, that's going to make the asset more. What's the word I'm looking for there?

Speaker 1:

I got it. If a highly trusted regional bank like Dakota Bank is telling their clients hey, we can borrow against your Bitcoin Like we believe in this product. The federal government believes in this product and they're going to let us borrow against it Like that's going to take the average citizen. You and I could do 1,000 podcasts in a row and the people that aren't going to listen to us as soon as their bank says it's a good idea or that they can do it, the retail buyer is going to fall in line, in my opinion, just like a CD.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

You know what I mean. Like, well, you can buy a CD and get 4%, or you can buy Bitcoin. Well, let's put 20% into the Bitcoin. Let's put 80% in the CD.

Speaker 2:

Like that's, put 20% into the Bitcoin, let's put 80% in the CD, that's going to happen. The main reason that being able to lend against your Bitcoin or borrow against your Bitcoin is going to be bullish for price is because now, if you want to use your Bitcoin to develop or do with it, whatever, you're going to do or buy more Bitcoin.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, technically, I suppose, If you have $10 million in Bitcoin and the bank will borrow you 60 percent value and you can afford the juice. Yeah, take that six million dollars. Go buy more like a bitcoin do that too. That's what michael saylor's doing essentially not the same, but kind of yeah, but it's, we're gonna reduce sell pressure.

Speaker 2:

if people don't have to sell their bitcoin to go, they're never gonna sell it yeah.

Speaker 1:

So another thing I find fascinating, and I think you folks at home are going to find this very interesting. We're going to put this slide up. It's probably up already. Basically, this is the breakdown of who owns all of the Bitcoin in the world, right? So number one individuals own 57% of all of the Bitcoin in the world. Okay, We'll get back to that number. 17.6% is estimated to be lost. Well, the people that don't, that really haven't dug into Bitcoin, aren't going to understand that number. Here's why such a huge percentage has been lost.

Speaker 1:

When Bitcoin first started, it was literally trading for like fractions of pennies, right? And then it hit a penny, and then it hit a dime, and then it hit a dollar. But lots of people bought Bitcoin when it was a fraction of a cent or one penny or two pennies, and they bought maybe a dollar's worth. So they got 100 Bitcoin for one penny, right? Can you imagine having 100 Bitcoin today? That'd be nice. So somebody takes a dollar in 2010, buys 100 Bitcoins for a penny each puts it on a wallet somewhere or writes their security key down somewhere, and because he only paid a dollar, he didn't give a shit, right?

Speaker 1:

They just forgot. It's like buying a pack of gum and setting it on the counter at your buddy's house. You get home, you're not going back to get the gum, so like they moved or they lost it or whatever Like. So that's how 18% of the Bitcoin has been lost. We're talking several million coins are gone. So when we talk about 21 million, bitcoin is the finite supply that can ever be mined. It's actually more like probably 17 or 18 million actual Bitcoin, because the rest are lost forever. They are unretrieved, right? So 6.6%, as you can see there on the screen, has not been mined yet. This is what we alluded to earlier. The last coin will be mined around the year 2140. 5.2% Jack mentioned this earlier. Satoshi Nakamoto when he created this, he kept around 5.2 percent. Um, that that's also worth noting, right? This is interesting. Those 5.2 percent of uh coins, which I guess would be about a million coins, right, around a million yep has never moved, then not it has never.

Speaker 1:

Since 2008, it has never moved from the original wallet. So whoever this Satoshi person is, or if it was a small group of people, they were stewards of society. Basically, yeah, because they built the perfect money. They built the perfect money, asset class Kept a million of them for themselves, which today is worth, if I'm doing my math right, like $100 billion.

Speaker 1:

They've never sold one of them Not a one Nope, in 16 years. Whatever person or whatever small group of people created Bitcoin, they have never moved their Bitcoin. So 5% is owned by whoever created this life-changing masterpiece. 3.6% 3.9%, excuse me is owned by ETFs. Etfs just launched in January of 2024 is when they first became legal and, you know, 3.9% doesn't seem like a big number, but 3.9%, considering they have accumulated that in less than a year, is crazy. Companies, just random companies Aberdeen Chrysler, microstrategy, abc, whatever just companies own 3.6%. Minors own 3.4% and governments, including the US government, own 2.7%.

Speaker 1:

I find it funny that all the while, the well, it's not the entire government Donald Trump and his administration have seen the light, so to speak, and they have become pro-Bitcoin in recent months and years. The Democrat Party hates Bitcoin and I think largely we're not getting into politics. I'm just telling you the facts bitcoin and I think largely we're not getting into politics. I'm just telling you the facts. Democrats have are very overtly trying to crush bitcoin, and they have for a very long time. It's not a secret like they've come out very public against bitcoin and it's because they don't want to lose control, like when, when people like you and me can buy a decentralized asset that the US federal government cannot control. Every little bit of control we take, they lose. Yeah, and it's absolutely driving the nuts. The US government owns a couple hundred thousand Bitcoin. They're not buying it as an investment. You know, these are from seizures and all this kind of stuff. Yeah, yep.

Speaker 1:

But there's, a lot of chatter out there and from very credible sources, that President Donald Trump, very, very shortly after being inaugurated in January, is going to start taking federal funds and buying large chunks of Bitcoin. So much. Like you know, if you have a team a basketball team or a sales team and you have like one clear-cut leader, when that leader does something, everybody kind of follows the United States, is that leader for the world, right? So this isn't a fact-based question or answer. I just want your opinion because I think it's very intriguing. When the United States government comes out in 2025, assuming this happens, and I think it's going to and they announced that they are going to start using Bitcoin as a national strategic reserve, much like gold used to be up until about 1971. There is going to be a massive follow the leader from all these countries around the world. Because if the world's biggest superpower, the greatest economy in the history of the planet, starts buying massive amounts of Bitcoin, right, not only is the price going to start to run hard, but as that price starts to run, the longer other countries wait to buy the Bitcoin, the more it cements their demise. Because, fast forward, 20, 30, 40 years, if the United States government holds 2 million Bitcoin and it could happen like the United States has enough money to own 2 million Bitcoin.

Speaker 1:

The United States government right now could go buy every single Bitcoin that's available in the entire world. They could. Price would go to the moon, but guess what? They would own it and that price would stay high. Right, like that could happen, right? So just imagine if you are not even a third world country, you're China, right, europe, and you see the United States government like just hammering down, acquiring Bitcoin. And then you look at future projections 20, 30, 40 years. The Bitcoin they buy today could literally be worth $100 trillion in 20 years or 30 years. If that happens and these other countries don't buy Bitcoin too, it is going to cement the United States as the supreme leader of this planet until the good Lord decides otherwise. So do you agree with my opinion that once the United States announces that they are going to start acquiring Bitcoin as a strategic reserve, that it is going to cause countries all over the world to panic and buy?

Speaker 2:

Of course, absolutely. I mean, like you said, they're kind of the ringleader, so they start buying. Not only are they just massive on the bid, they're buying large quantities. Of course that's going to make the price go up. But, they're also completely cementing in every country's mind, every country's leader's mind, that this is now a legitimate asset to buy and own. So of course you kind of get a little bit of a global game theory that starts to play out.

Speaker 1:

We're about done here. But one thing that people absolutely have to hear if you're at home right now and you're listening to this and you're like, okay, this Bitcoin thing sounds great, I want you to know two things, and then I'm going to get Jackson's opinion on this. Number one, and this is what everybody says I'm too late. I'm too late. I missed the boat. Right, if I had a dollar for every time, somebody told me that in the last six months, I would be retired. It's too late. It's 100,000, toby, it's too late, I'm not buying it. Well, first of all, the best time to buy Bitcoin is right now, six months from now. If you ask me the best time to buy Bitcoin, you know what my answer is going to be Right now, I personally will buy Bitcoin at the top price until the day I die, right? So, like, that's one misnomer that I want people to know. Like it's never too late to buy Bitcoin. The price is going to consistently go up. But number two, and most importantly, I am going to list off some individuals, some companies and some investment companies that are not only pro-Bitcoin are buying Bitcoin and have massive price predictions for what Bitcoin is going to hit in price in the next 5, 10, 15, and 20 years. So here's just a few people that not only own Bitcoin, but they promote Bitcoin and they've owned Bitcoin for a long time. Michael Saylor we talked about him. Jack Dorsey of course, he was the gentleman that founded Twitter, eventually sold it to Elon Musk. Speaking of Elon Musk, elon Musk is, by anybody's standard unless you're a hater he is the most successful entrepreneur in the world in several generations, if not in the history of Planet Earth. I mean when he starts a company SpaceX, tesla, paypal, everything. He is a legendary investor and, by anybody's standard, he is one of the highest IQ, highest intelligent people in the history of the planet. Elon's been buying Bitcoin for years. Okay, what Elon Musk? And there's a lot of people like him. They're buying Bitcoin Like it's. It's like the worst kept dirty secret amongst the social elites. They're all buying Bitcoin. Some of them admit it, some of them don't, but they're all buying bitcoin. So who are some of the companies that own bitcoin? Tesla, of course. That's elon musk's company. Uh, you know blackrock.

Speaker 1:

We talked about blackrock. Blackrock is not a fringe company, you guys. Blackrock is the largest asset management company in the world $12 trillion. They are one of the most bullish companies in the world on Bitcoin. So BlackRock is the biggest company in the world.

Speaker 1:

Blackrock has the smartest people in the world working for them. Like the smartest. Like if we want to hire somebody, like, we have like a salary range that we can afford for each position. You know what BlackRock does. Blackrock finds the smartest people for each aspect of their business. They call them and then they give them a blank, blank contract and they let the people fill it out. Like not literally, but you get the point that if they want you, they will pay any amount of money for you to come work for them. So BlackRock has the smartest people on planet earth that have every algorithm, every piece of data that people like you and I will never have access to. Right, they're buying Bitcoin. Okay, arc, you've heard of art kathy wood. She's one of the most famous investors of the last 20 years. Kathy wood, like, like most investors, know who kathy wood is. They know who her and her, her company, art that they know who. They are Massive, massive proponents of Bitcoin.

Speaker 1:

They hold massive amounts of Bitcoin. Vaneck is one of the largest investment firms in the world, they own Bitcoin. Fidelity Fidelity, that's like. I mean fidelity to investing is like Coca-Cola to soft drinks. Right, fidelity holds Bitcoin. Like it's absolutely insane.

Speaker 1:

So what about countries? Right, the United States owns Bitcoin. China owns Bitcoin. Like, like, you can look it up, there are countries all over the world that own Bitcoin. So, the super rich billionaires own Bitcoin. The biggest, most successful companies in the world many of them hold Bitcoin. The biggest, most successful companies in the world many of them hold Bitcoin. Governments all over the world hold Bitcoin.

Speaker 1:

Yet everyday people who are struggling to get by are scared to buy it. Why? Because I think the system has programmed regular people to scare the bejesus out of them. Because they don't want you and me buying Bitcoin. No, because they want to own all of it. Right, the globalists in this world that want complete control of the world, like, they want a unified world. They don't want countries, they don't want individual governments, they want a global structure of management, so to speak. So this fear-mongering that you're getting from the left, the fear-mongering you're getting from mainstream media, like a lot of that is coordinated, in my opinion, because they don't want the people watching this interview Jackson. They don't want them buying Bitcoin, because every fraction of a Bitcoin that somebody in South Dakota buys is less than BlackRock gets, it's less than Tesla gets, it's less than the US government gets. Right, because it's a finite supply. Absolutely Right, yep. What do you have to say about that?

Speaker 2:

I think that's exactly right. I mean, you know, the globalists, as you would say, are stuck between how do we kill this thing and how do we buy it all. I think they're starting to realize they can't do either.

Speaker 1:

So the last thing we're going to talk about today and thank you for being here, by the way, I know you're busy and again, thank you, aberdeen Chrysler Center for sponsoring this episode. I know you're not in the prediction business. I asked you earlier like, hey, do you have a prediction for Bitcoin? And you know, jackson's kind of a Bitcoin weirdo, so like he's like I'm not giving predictions and I get it. He's a Bitcoin purist, so he's not focused on the price. He knows it's going up forever, so it is what it is.

Speaker 1:

But when you're taking money from investors, they want to know your opinion, right? So when you start talking about BlackRock, you start talking about ARK Investments. So you're talking about Michael Saylor, kathy Woods, Tim Draper, max Keiser, tom Lee, like all these people that are out there that are either managing people's portfolios or are trying to convince companies to take their cash from their um, from their companies. You know, you know and put them into a, a, a better asset like Bitcoin. Like they, they have to give some kind of a price projection in order to, in order for people to listen, right. And so Michael Saylor, who is the godfather of bitcoin, and there's people that would that would be angry for me for saying that because he didn't invent bitcoin. He's not satoshi and, you know, nobody has more respect for the satoshi than michael saylor. Like, if you've ever heard michael saylor talk about satoshi, whoever he is or she is, or whatever group they is, he has great reverence for them. And what they did, you know, you know and again I think you mentioned this all happened around 2008, 2009,.

Speaker 1:

When the global markets, just the whole, the whole world economy tanked and these, this group of people or this individual, you know, said we have to have a better monetary future than what we're doing, right? You know, said we have to have a better monetary future than what we're doing, right? So, but in today's terms, michael Saylor is the Bitcoin guy. Michael Saylor says in the year 2045, that's 21 years. Okay, when you're 50 years old, like I am, 21 years doesn't sound that exciting. That just means I'm going to be in my seventies, right? But for people like you that are 28 years old, you're going to be 49 years old, you're going to be younger than me. When Michael Saylor says Bitcoin is going to be worth $13 million per coin, how does that make you feel? Yeah, I guess we many Bitcoins times 13 million. When I'm 49 years old, I could have this many tens of millions of dollars in Bitcoin. Do you ever allow yourself to think that way?

Speaker 2:

I mean it'll cross your mind, but the goal is to never sell any because, like you said, it's going to go up forever.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely so. He says $13 million by 2025. Kathy Wood has said this a thousand times from ARK Investment that it's going to hit a million dollars before 2030 or by the end of 2030. Max Keiser says it's going to hit a million dollars in the next half a dozen years or so. And you can just go through all these different companies, whether it's Fidelity, whether it's VanEck, whether it's BlackRock all of their analysts have done the media tour and they have predicted anywhere from 120 to 300,000 Bitcoin in 2025.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, right, and then we kind of hit this bull market and then we have the halving again in what Roughly three 2028. 2028. Yeah, and then. So then they kind of give their prediction for that next halving bull cycle and that's where you're seeing like $500,000 to a million dollar coin. So I'm going to put you on the spot here a little bit, because this is what people want to know. So what is Bitcoin, according to Jackson Doden, going to hit for its peak price in 2025?

Speaker 2:

I'll throw out a number just to play along, but I'm sure it'll be way off. I think that there's a pretty high percent chance you'll see at least $150,000 per coin next year.

Speaker 1:

There you heard it Could be way higher, but we'll see. According to Jackson Doden's opinion, you can buy Bitcoin today at the low, low price of about $107,000 a coin and at some point this year that will appreciate to around $150,000 a coin. We'll see what happens. I think largely. Again, this is getting into the weeds a little bit, but every four years we talk about the halving. There's a bull cycle and then there's the bear cycle and then there's the halving, and so if you look at people that have been charting Bitcoin since the beginning, the price has been very, very predictable In hindsight. Yes, in hindsight. Yeah, predictable in hindsight, yes, in hindsight. Yeah, as as you look you can see the data would indicate at certain points in each four-year cycle, you can kind of predict when it's going to run, when it's going to level off, when it's going to dip, when it's going to bounce back. So if the federal government, for example, the us federal, if Trump comes out in 2025 and says we are indeed going to start accumulating large amounts of Bitcoin as a strategic reserve for the United States government, that wasn't built into these models, no, like, that's an external accelerant that could potentially throw off all these predictive models, so like, and I think that's why we're seeing some people suggest that we could see $300,000 Bitcoin, because they're taken into certain factors, like the US government, like other countries, like, so like. If none of that happens, you still think Bitcoin hits $150,000 this cycle? Yeah, absolutely, well, there, you heard it. So listen, that was a lot of information. Had I been listening to this conversation four or five years ago, I probably would have been on top of the building at the Doden Investment Center, you know, pulling my hair out because I wouldn't have understood any of it, and so if we talked about some things that were confusing, I apologize.

Speaker 1:

Bitcoin is a very, very nuanced, very detailed subject, and my recommendations and I'm going to let you, uh, have the last word my, my recommendation would be this would be to put all of your pride aside. Take everything you think you know about money, about our fiat system, about how the united states abandoned the gold standard 50 plus years ago, about everything the media has told you, everything your family at thanksgiving told you, all the naysayers. Put all of it aside and just take your own self, jump in, spend 10 minutes a day, 20 minutes a day, an hour on sunday, whatever. Just take a month or two months, however long you need and just consume every piece of information you can get and then make your own decision right, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

If somebody just showed up today and said Toby, I've got this real estate portfolio, it's a winner. I need $3 million and you can own half of it, I'd be like I'm going to need more information. I like real estate, but I'm not going to just blindly invest in something. It's my money. I worked hard for it, right. So I'm not asking people just to go buy Bitcoin because I said to or because you said to or anybody else did, but, conversely, you shouldn't not buy it because people are telling you not to. You should do your own research. I want to hear what you have to say about that.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I think that's very accurate. I mean, I think what's super tough when it comes to Bitcoin and the reason that the world just absolutely has no idea what it is is there's never been anything like it. There's nothing to compare it to. You can't use analogies to get people to grasp the concept. Really just have to take it upon yourself, to take. You know, take five hours, 10 hours, 15, 20 hours, whatever it takes to actually research what this is and come to your own conclusion. But there's just no easy shortcut, unfortunately, so just kind of got to learn about it and make your decision. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you very much again for being here. I appreciate it. I think a lot of our viewers are going to appreciate some of the information and some of the thoughts you had on it. Just a reminder next week we are going to do what I think is going to be our largest episode yet.

Speaker 1:

The state of South Dakota, specifically the governor's office, wants to build a brand new likely a $1 billion plus maximum security prison outside of Sioux Falls. There's a lot of pushback on that and Kevin Jensen, who serves in the legislature in South Dakota great guy he has dug into this topic. He has learned everything there is to know about not only the new prison proposal but what options there are to renovate and upgrade the existing prison in its current location, and we are going to have him on next week. We are going to dig very, very deep. We are going to be very specific. We are going to bring the good folks of South Dakota every piece of information they need about the new prison proposal so that they can make up their own independent minds and decide ultimately what they're going to support. So thank you again. I appreciate it. Episode five is concluded. We appreciate you again. We thank you very much for listening this week and we cannot wait to bring you Kevin Jensen and the prison proposal episode next week. Thank you for listening to Toby Doden unfiltered.