Spiritual Awakening with Catherine Duncan

Join Dr. Pete & Catherine Duncan for an enlightening podcast filled with inspiration and spiritual guidance. Catherine Duncan is an integrative spiritual consultant, former trauma and hospice chaplain, and the author of Everyday Awakening. This insightful book explores how to feel more alive each day by truly living in the present- it's a podcast episode you won't want to miss!

Learn more about Catherine here: 

https://www.catherineduncan.org/

Transcript

Meet Catherine Duncan

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Hello, and welcome back to On Air with Dr. Pete. I'm your host, Dr. Pete Economo, and I'm glad that you're here today. If you've been listening for a while, you know that we talk about a lot of life things and peace and living with intention. So our guest today is truly living every day with those beliefs. Catherine Duncan is an integrative spiritual consultant, a former trauma and hospice chaplain and author of Everyday Awakening. This is a great book that explores how to feel more alive each day by truly living in the present. So you all know how important that is to me. So we're going to jump right in. Catherine, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Thanks. Great to meet you today.

Near-Death Clarity And Career Pivot

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Thanks so much for being here. So you you really have an interesting background and I want to learn more. I know that you left this corporate job and Time magazine to study theology, became a chaplain. So how'd you make that decision? It was a big life change. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

I the decision came to me after actually having a near-death experience whitewater rafting in Costa Rica on a Time Warner, Time Inc. company trip.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

I had been in the advertising world for how long? 15 years? And I was starting in my heart to feel rumblings like, ugh, even though the lure of money and being Time Magazine, the number one print job here in the Midwest that I had, um, I was starting to wonder, like, is this the path? And then this experience happened in Costa Rica, and it was complete clarity. I survived, I came back to Minneapolis, and within two weeks I gave my notice. And I'm like, this is it, this is it. I need to listen. Like, where am I being called? And luckily, my husband supported me and um made the big leap out of the corporate world to then ended up studying theology. And so it was a big decision.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

How long ago was that?

SPEAKER_01 2:08

This was when I was 36. I was in my 30s. That's fine. We'll just leave it there. Yeah, but ever since, I've just I've never looked back. I just I listened deeply and I got a nudging to look into graduate school and theology, divinity that I've been studying since a teenager.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

So I've been at a lot of Catholic institutions or spiritual institutions. So been around a lot of theology uh practic uh practitioners, but also uh, you know, just from the academic world. So I I uh like what made you choose that? Because right, I also like I teach in a graduate psychology program. So if you're doing hospice and trauma work, like how do you make the decision of theology versus psychology or is it integrative?

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Yeah, no, great question. Well, I another experience this year when I was 11 years old, I am a childhood cancer survivor and I came right up to the edge of dying. I was on the brink of life and death, and um, I survived. And as a teenager, I started reading books on life and meaning and purpose and why are we here? What does it mean to be alive? And so I've been so passionate about the meaning of life, spirituality. I had this transformative spiritual experience at 11.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

So it was a natural to die. I mean, to end up going into theology, divinity, and the path I've been on.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

It's so share that experience. Like, what's that like? So doing that in the trauma and the hospice world as a chaplain, describe that for people if they don't know what that is.

Inside Level One Trauma Chaplaincy

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Yeah. I well, after graduate school, I became a chaplain and I worked at our level one trauma hospital called Hennepin County Medical Center. And then I became a hospice chaplain. But as a trauma chaplain, I worked a lot of evening shifts. I did actually a lot of on-call shifts. Um, so I spent many, many shifts in the you might not surprise as a chaplain in the emergency room. Yeah. They have what's called a stabilization room for the most four high trauma cases.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

And because it's level one, they're flying in people from all over the Midwest. Um, so it was a lot. It was such sacred work. Oh my God. Um, but every shift, I mean, it was every shift, seeing a lot of trauma, a lot, a lot of death. I mean, everything from accidents to stabbings to so much, but being fully present with the patient, with the family, navigating the dynamics with the medical team and the family, and again, rich, sacred, and it's a calling to do that work, I think.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

It's so it has to be a calling, actually, you know, because who else can do it and how important is it? And it's really heavy work. And so thank you. Uh I had a I had a student in my previous institution who was in a graduate program who's a coroner, and so he got a graduate degree in counseling because of this idea of seeing people at their worst. And so obviously, with trauma and hospice, you know, you you're seeing people right at the end. Uh, from a mindfulness perspective, what we learn is that people are usually less the least anxious they've ever been in that moment, you know, because there's no worry about the future. You know, and so maybe hopefully they've done some work about the past. But how do you look at these experiences, how they shaped you, like helping thousands of people near the end of their lives? Like, how do you think that shaped you to who you are today?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Uh, and I'll I'll share one comment based on what you just said.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Yeah.

Peace At Death Vs Sudden Trauma

SPEAKER_01 5:26

As a hospice chaplain, most people, the norm were they were at peace when they died. That was unusual not to see. But in a trauma situation, it's a little different because at two hours earlier they were driving to a friend's house and then all of a sudden they're dying. So that it's a little different nuance. But um, yeah, I for me, it was a deepening of understanding life and why we're here. And I, one big takeaway from my years as a chaplain and as a hospice chaplain, I saw so many people the last day, days of their life all of a sudden drop into the essence of being alive, of just like this is it. You know, it's not the material outer world, it's the inner world, it's this love and flow and connection. And I would see, and I'm a mystic and I'm an intuitive, I would just see a glow around their body and love radiating in the whole room. And it was just wow, teachers of this is what really life is and being alive. Here it is.

Don’t Wait To Wake Up

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Wow, that's really uh, you know, that's so powerful. And what I love that we just said is they wait till that moment. And I think I've I read that you or you know, you've written or talked about how you that you don't want to wait, you shouldn't wait until the end. And another mindfulness practice there, you know, live in this moment because you don't know what's gonna happen next. So how would you share your thoughts on that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

That was the real impetus of writing my book, Everyday Awakening, after seeing hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people pass away in front of me. To just like, you don't have to wait till you're in a crisis or upheaval or about to die. You can choose that, like, oh, this is life, the magicalness of fully being alive, awakening right now. You can choose it right now. It's a consciousness, yes, it's a practice, it's a dropping into.

Childhood Cancer And First Awakening

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Yeah, it's so it's so beautiful. And I don't want to like gloss over, I don't know how much you want to go into it. It sounds like you're open because you mentioned it, but having been someone who approached death twice very closely, uh, you know, in in traumatic ways, I'm assuming, because as a child, you don't fully understand the concept of health and the treatment. Uh, and then, you know, white water rafting, like that's probably really intense. So, you know, how what could what could you share about those personal experiences with us that has shaped this work?

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Mm-hmm. The most profound experience I I would have to say was when I was 11 years old, and this is in the 70s. I was at the University of Minnesota Hospital when they told me I had cancer. I'd never heard the word. I thought, oh, I'll have to go and take a Tylenol, or you know, I had no idea. But after chemotherapy, radiation, all that I saw back in the 70s, they did a lot of amputation and they had no anti nausea. It was just, it was a scene. And in and back in the 70s, they actually had no mental health program for children. So no one spoke to me. My parents, I felt my mom and dad's love, but no one said a word. And so, as you can imagine, I felt just extremely alone and scared. Um, our family, Lutheran, intermittently went to church. Faith meant nothing to me. And out of nowhere, one day I just I found myself, I started praying like to the whatever the universe of like, please can I live? Please can I live? And my prayer was, could I please live to be 20, 20 years old?

SPEAKER_02 8:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

And one day, within I don't know how many weeks, months after, one afternoon, this peace just flooded my body at 11. It was just like, oh, it took my breath away. And it was just an a knowing came through me that I was gonna live and that I wasn't alone. So for me, it's like that sense of like we're one with this universal energy, God, whatever you want to call it. I got that at 11, and it's been with me to this moment.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

You know, that is not normal, and that's why you say you're uh intuitive and all of the gifts that you have, which at 11, most 11-year-olds are not tapped into that yet.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

No. No. And then I started reading all these books on who is man, Abraham Heschel, existentialism, and human. I mean, all these books. It's like, yeah, I've been on a little different path.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Well, and that's beautiful. Each of our paths are unique, and it makes me think of one of my challenges with studying Zen Buddhism is that uh, you know, there's like the reincarnation, and I certainly I believe in it, you know, about energy. Uh, I don't understand how like a human form of somebody is like at three years old, you know, one of the Dalai Lama reincarnates. Like, I I I'm trying to still wrap my head around that, so I'm meditating a lot on that. But uh you have any opinions about that or thoughts that it could help me?

SPEAKER_01 10:09

I I think we're uh this is what I think. I think we're a soul in a body for a short time. I think you know, we're at the end of the day. One way to look at it is we're energy. Energy doesn't die. We are energy, everything's energy. We have an energy field. So even people are like trying to open into spirituality, what gives you meaning? Can you tune into that life force energy within your body?

SPEAKER_02 10:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

And open into that. And for everyone listening, just what is it for you? And you know, then you go down the path, as you were just asking about reincarnation. Some people believe in it, some don't. I I do. I mean, I've had too many experiences where I've met someone, I'm like, I know you. You know, I mean, there's such a bond. So yeah, um, but I just think it's coming into your soul and your essence. That's why I think we're here on this earth and learning how to love. I think it's all about love, opening our heart. I think when we die, that's what we take with us is our ability to love. And I saw that time and time again.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

I love that. Use uh I I say that there's infinite amounts of love. You know, there's no there's no limits to how much love you can experience, receive, give, and I think we spend more time in some of the more the negative emotions. And so I'm easy. Yeah, it's it's very easy. So, what would your like day look like? So, you know, because I guess you know, if listeners are out there trying to understand what divinity, theology, spiritual, like uh, I know you've got a private practice and you're helping others live fully. So, how would you describe like a day-to-day for Catherine?

Religious Pluralism And Language For God

SPEAKER_01 11:42

For years, uh, many years, I was a chaplain again at our trauma hospital, hospice chaplain. And then I just honored the feeling we get so much guidance if we come into the moment and feel the guidance, feel the nudgings. And I got a I had a strong feeling I wanted to be with a living, like how to help people right now, not just at the end of life. So I left my chaplaincy career in healthcare and I have a private practice. So five days a week, I am I have a full-fledged client practice. I work with people, many people who are just searching. They're wanting more. They want to feel more alive, they want to feel more life. I work with many executives, doctors, um, lawyers, uh, you know, women in their 50s, 60 plus who are like, oh, I've done this or I've made this big amount of money, but I feel nothing. I feel numb. So I have a private practice, I do public speaking, I have my own podcast, Everyday Awakening, where I'm interviewing people all over the world about what it means to be alive. And then I've been on this book tour. So very fun.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

It's a lot of fun. It's busy, that's for sure. So you have to stay grounded in your own spiritual practice. I guess what does that look like? I train graduate students on self-care and uh like what is what does someone that's doing what you're doing do for themselves?

SPEAKER_01 13:00

And I've been practicing mindful, mindfulness, meditation, prayer much of my life, much of my life. So, and I teach this as well and have for many years. For me, uh, here's a couple of things that I do that are habits uh in the morning. I have a gratitude practice. And what does that look like? When I wake up in the morning, I have a few minutes before I get out of bed where I just I'm like, thank you, you know, thank you. I'm alive, and I understand what that means to be alive. And I just think about what I'm grateful for, but then I feel it. You need to, with gratitude, feel that energy that is some of the highest vibrational energies our bodies can hold. So I feel it coursing through my body. I have some moments of prayer. Before I get out of bed, it sets a tone for my day. I meditate every day. I I talk to God, the universe, all day long. I'm a mystic, I'm an intuitive, I believe we live multidimensionally.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

So, like right now, when I'm talking with you, I'm using my mind, I'm talking, I'm here, and I see spirits every day. So it's just like all these different levels of how I think we truly can live.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

It's it's really uh that's uh amazing. You're you're I'm curious. So this is where I just go off script. I'm curious because you're using God and universe as synonyms, which I I like. I think I I actually do the same thing. So I'd be curious because you're the expert in this, like how you would describe that to someone who's like, you can't use those interchangeably.

Who She Works With And Why

SPEAKER_01 14:30

I I'm actually putting out um a post tomorrow just on what we're talking about. I know, I know. I'm actually doing a stitch video with what Mel Robbins recently said, with I think is at Lisa Miller. Um, anyway, here's a term I learned in graduate school that was life-changing, and that is it's called religious pluralism, how all the major world religions and faith traditions come to one endpoint, one truth, one reality. Here's another quick fact one out of three people in the world are Christian. So that means two-thirds of the world is not Christian. So, and about 20, 25% of the US population even goes to church. So, and I've worked with so many thousands of people, so many people. It's about, I think, opening, honoring what the language is for everyone listening right now. For some people, you bet it's God. And for me, actually, it is God. Yeah. Some people, it's universe, higher power, you know, infinite intelligence, a la Brahma, source. I mean, so I just think it's about being open and tuning into you and where you're at and what resonates with you. And I'll say one more comment based on the Christian faith, you know, and that's broad from over on the right-hand side, fundamentals, evangelical Catholic, which is not quite maybe half of half of Christians, but all the way over here to UCCUU. There's a lot of language, there's a lot of different ways to interpret it. And my message is can you just be open, open to what it is for you?

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Open and love, uh, right. So religious pluralism, really helpful to hear. My Zen teacher is a Jesuit. Uh, he's 93 right now. Uh, so the Jesuits sent him to Japan to learn about meditation, and that's sort of how it that journey started. And he's he was part of founding the interfaith dialogue at the UN. Uh, I love it. It's so this is right up my alley. Like, it's so important to say, like, whatever works for you, find your language. And this religious pluralism says that we're often probably doing some of the same things. And I had students who were they struggled with that. They're like, Well, how could he be a priest praying to that God and then meditating to a different God? You know, and he he answered it very well.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

And I would say, just be careful. You can't put God in a box, you know. Some more really traditional Christian faiths were like, Nope, this is it, this is how you practice, this is the language. I'd say, be careful with that. And I also trained, by the way, St. Ignatius of Loyola. Yeah, I did the spiritual exercises for nine months where I prayed an hour a day, and the exercise is life-changing.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Life-changing, that is beautiful. So, what kind of clients do you work with? Like, how would you describe your clientele?

SPEAKER_01 17:06

It's a range, um, as I said a few minutes ago, range of from everywhere from 20-year-olds to I have a 90-year-old person who they're just they're wanting more in life, they're wanting to feel the preciousness of life. They, some of them may be very successful executives, but the emotional spiritual piece has been shut down. Many people who have had, and many of us, and I talk about this in my book, I'm one of them, had a tough childhood. You know, you can truly heal. It's a choice. It's a choice to heal, to look inward. It takes strength, it takes courage, but like, why not? Why not? The healing that we do helps us open up into even a fuller, richer life. It's here for all of us.

Therapy Meets Somatics And Energy

SPEAKER_00 17:50

It's right there. So, what would be some advice on how you help people get unstuck? You know, because I that sounds like a big piece of it. I know it's in your book a bit. So, how would you describe that to listeners?

SPEAKER_01 18:00

I think um it's a combination of traditional therapy, yes, talk therapy, where you can awareness is a first step of all healing. What are what am I doing? Where am I? Am I in my mind? Am I in my body? What's the repetitive thought? We can turn on this trust response by thought alone.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

So, yes, where are you at? What's happening? What are the repetitive patterns of maybe they're attachment issues, maybe it's trauma. I mean, whatever that is, naming it, talking about it. But the other piece critical now we know is somatic work, moving that trauma, that energy, that stuck energy out of your body. It is so powerful. It's both. And so in my book, Everyday Awakening, I have 42 exercises. So that's like a typical session with me. So based on the person, it might be introducing them to a breath exercise or meditation or toning or body movement, or working with energy, energy boundaries. And I just tailor it to the people I'm working with to give them tools to work with for their healing when we're not meeting with each other.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Well, it sounds like those 42 exercises contribute to the nervous system, like just helping regulate the nervous system. I know you're right about that, and self-compassion. So uh is that a big piece of your work too? Like cultivating self-compassion for others?

SPEAKER_01 19:16

All the above. And I'm trained also and certified in neuroplasticity. We know that what we think we feel our environment is shaping our brain all day long. And we now know that we can rewire our brain, we can create positive new neural pathways in our brain. I've trained with Rick Hansen. So I work with people on that. I work with people. Yeah, I think at the end of the day, one of the biggest takeaways is learning love, learning how to open our heart, learning how to love ourselves, self-compassion work. I love um Kristen Neff's work, for example. She's one of the leaders. Um, there are many people in this field. And learning how to really open our heart and love ourselves to be able to love another, it starts with ourselves.

Neuroplasticity And Self-Compassion

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Yeah, Neff's work is great. And neuroplasticity for listeners, it it's it's interesting because I'll use this in class a lot. I teach some uh neurology students and all that. And it's like we when I was trained, which is not that long ago, I was trained that developmentally the brain stops after adolescence, you know, that there is a moment that it has reached its peak. And through some of our you know, medical advances, we now understand neuroplasticity more to say we can reshape. And a lot of the TBI literature showed us that where language and all these other things can move within the brain depending on whatever someone goes through. So it's it's such an important part of the work, and I love to hear you say that. Uh so like I'm I'm putting myself in the listener's shoes and they're like, this all sounds really great, you know. How do I do it? You know, like the world is really uncertain, it's really stressful. So if you had like your top advice to a listener about what to do, what would that be?

Four Steps To Rewire Your Brain

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Uh, I would say across every model I've studied and worked with in neuroplasticity, there are four steps. There are four key steps. And they here they are quickly. Number one, can you identify that thought? What are you thinking? Worry, stress, anxiety, fear, what is that? When you can name it, it starts to calm our nervous system. This is research-based. Number two, can you identify the feeling? And not always easy, but I like to hold the word curiosity. When we're curious, we're in a calm, parasympathetic state. Like, where do I feel it? What is it? If we can name, oh, I'm angry or I'm sad, or when we can name the feeling, calms our nervous system. Number three, can you feel the feeling? Now that can be hard because we all know that we can quickly change gears and push down our feelings, not feel our feelings, but even sit down, breathe, just feel the feeling a little bit for even a few minutes, it starts to dissipate. The pathway to healing is feeling our feelings. And then the fourth step is growing the good, marinating in the good, as Rick Hansen would say. So a positive thought, a positive image for me. You know, I'll go to I have two little dogs, um, Ali and Bella, and they're like, uh, they run our house. And, you know, I go to the image of them and my heart just warms. So go to an image, go to a that helps warm your heart, open your heart. And what's happening is you are creating positive new neural pathways when you do that. So literally every model I've studied, those are four key takeaways.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

What kind of dogs are they?

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Bella and I'm shons.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Oh my god, so cute. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was really you just like made my day because I have three dogs, and one of them she was given three to six months to live two and a half years ago. Uh and so she just keeps going. And uh, there's a piece of me that's just both embracing every moment, you know, in a full way because she's still here, uh, and curious when she's gonna cross over, you know, what that's gonna be like.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Oh, and I think dogs are the biggest teachers, really. Of love, unconditional love, totally and presence. You know, they're like, hello, I'm here, just like we're here together.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Yeah, it's so simple. Uh, if only humans could be that way. Yeah. So let's get so everyday awakening, you mentioned a bunch, such a great book. I know that uh the book's been endorsed. You already mentioned Mel Robbins. We love her, that's amazing. Uh, and it's been described as a roadmap for living fully engaged life. So tell us more about the book.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

So my book came to me, and actually uh I saw the vision of the book 10 years before I even started writing. And I told my husband and kids, I'm gonna write a book. And they were like, Great, mom. And then during the pandemic, I sat down and I couldn't stop writing. A whole book came out of me. I I also think writing a book is a calling. Like you just you have to write.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

So my book, Everyday Awakening, it's five practices for living fully, feeling deeply, coming into your heart and soul. The five practices are come back to the present moment. So it all starts with being here now in just this moment. Come back to the present moment, connect with something greater, grow your trust, embody love, and hold openness. So I talk about these are four or mean five big principles that I've learned much in my life. And then, as I said, I weave in practices of just how to open your heart and live here now.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

That's really it's so good. It's such important. Thank you for the gift of the book and for all that you do for people because we're all stuck, you know? And let's just help people get out of that.

Dogs, Love, And Presence

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Yeah, and it's fun to see working with people, if it's one-on-one or public speaking, how people crack open and open and start to feel life and walk through. I have clients in their 70s, 80s who, for the very first time, are letting trauma, not being loved, not being seen out of their bodies, and they're becoming entirely new people and feeling life and aliveness, and that's magic. That's life. That's I think why we're here.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

It's it's energy. It's it's thank you for that knowledge and wisdom. I mean, this really was so helpful. I'm I'm very certain that a lot of people listening are gonna be more curious about you. And so, where can they learn more about you if they wanted to?

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Yeah, my website is Catherine Duncan.org or G. And then I'm on every social media platform, Katherine Duncan. It's M A B C C. Yeah, and my books are at on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, in Barnes Noble's in a bunch of cities across the country.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Yeah, so go get them. Thank you. Yeah, Catherine, thank you so much for being here. Really good tips uh and ways to just engage in life more fully, intentional life, and we really appreciate you taking the time today.

Five Practices Of Everyday Awakening

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Great to meet you. Thank you. Wonderful conversation, blessings.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Yes, we could. I I know you and I could talk longer. But anyway, yeah. Those listening at home, thank you for tuning in. It's uh catherducat.org. We'll have all that in the show notes, show notes. And you know you can always follow, like, and share everything's at official Dr. Pete. So until then, spread a little kindness and stay well.