From Wall Street Stress To Wellness with International Speaker Tom Cronin

Join Dr. Pete for another episode from the Mental Health Awareness Month Series. We believe open, honest conversations like these will have the power to change lives, and it’s incredibly important to us to contribute to that positive global shift. Today's guest joins us all the way from Australia. Tom Cronin is an international keynote speaker, author, and leadership trainer specializing in peak performance, resilience, burnout prevention, and mental well-being. With a diverse and dynamic background, Tom brings a rare level of credibility to conversations about performing under pressure—and how that impacts our mental health. He has delivered keynotes and corporate trainings for some of the world’s leading organizations, including Amazon, Coca-Cola, and Harvard Business School, just to name a few. Learn more about Tom here: 

https://tomcronin.com/

https://www.instagram.com/tomcronin/

Transcript

Welcome And Mental Health Month

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Hello and welcome back to On Air with Dr. Pete. I'm your host, Dr. Pete Economo, and always so glad to have you here. We're officially in May, which is mental health awareness month, and I can't believe that we're here already. And these honest conversations are so important. They change lives, and it's it is incredibly important to us to contribute positively to this global shift and understanding the role of mental health. And that's been my mission. And I know today's guest shares that same passion. Tom Cronin joins all the way from Australia. So I'm in the evening and he's in the morning. He's an international keynote speaker, author, leadership trainer, specializing in peak performance, resilience, burnout prevention, and mental well-being. He is a diverse and dynamic background. He brings a rare level of credibility to conversations about performing under pressure and how that impacts our mental health. He has delivered keynotes and corporate trainings for some of the world's leading organizations, including Amazon Coca-Cola and the Harvard Business School, just to name a few. So, Tom, thank you so much for being here all the way from Down Under.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Yeah, it's great to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Isn't that wild? Yeah. And it's probably cheesy, I said down under. Is that like that's like a thing still, right? Is that cheesy for you guys?

SPEAKER_01 1:35

It's not cheesy now, and it's a very popular I know with Americans. So we we we like it. We we wear it with honor.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Oh, well, I appreciate that. We have a uh punter on our American football team is from Australia. That's right. Yeah, yeah. A lot of a lot of uh punters and kickers in American football come from Australia. Yeah, we like kicking balls. We like kicking balls. I love all

A Breakdown That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_02 1:55

of them. So you've had a fascinating journey uh from high-pressure corporate environments to mindfulness and leadership. What was the turning point that you made this decision and you sort of shifted directions?

SPEAKER_01 2:05

It was quite a slow journey, you know. I had been a broker in finance for 26 years all up. And in the first 10 years of that, I was just kind of completely out of control. And that was just really late 80s, early 90s. If anyone's seen Wolf of Wall Street, it was really quite accurately portrayed as to what my life was like as crazy times. This led to a lot of stress, you know. Eventually I got extreme panic attacks and depression and uh insomnia eventually ultimately led to a nervous breakdown in my late 20s. So it's just my nervous system was just saying, enough is enough, we can't take it anymore. And then I discovered at that point meditation, but it wasn't like I just left my career at that point. I just integrated meditation and doing retreats and really looked at changing my mental health but also my physical health uh over the many years uh while I was a broker. So I dropped all the drinking and the drugs and the partying. And and then eventually what I found was that a lot of people were asking me, hey, what is it that's different about you? How did you do that? And so it became apparent that there was getting a lot of inquiry from people, and that inspired me to then leave finance, get well, eventually get teacher training done and get qualified as a meditation teacher. And that led to once I left to become a teacher, that led to other things like working with organizations, speaking, having books published, so kind of organically grew, but it was just this deep knowing inside that there was more to offer to the world than me quoting quarter point price movements in bonds and swaps, you know, to international bankers. Was that in Australia?

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Were you in Australia then too, Tom? Yeah, I was in the Australian markets. That's really nice to hear. I mean, I know that sounds terrible for me to say, but like I always feel like the Wolf uh of Wall Street is like just like a New York thing. So it's nice that Australians also act crazy in the world of finance too.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Yeah, absolutely. It was pretty deep in the culture across the world, I think, at that time.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Do you think it's changed now, as far as you can tell? From what I'm hearing, talking to some of my uh ex-colleagues, it's definitely changed to some degree. You know, we've got HR and people and culture and all sorts of protocols in place. You know, I think overall, as a society, we've become a lot more conscious, a lot more health conscious, a lot more mental health conscious. We've even got months like May. Uh certain, you know, in Australia, we've got a day called R U OK Day. I'm not sure if they have it overseas, but it's uh Oh, I love that. Tell us about that. Yeah, it was a guy that he he committed suicide and then his best friend set up this foundation called Are You OK? And it was a day that's become really uh they've done really well with the movement. It's become a big, big movement here in Australia where workplaces have uh, you know, people wear t-shirts, are you okay? And there's talks, are you okay? And it's all about asking, are you okay and making sure that you know we don't have more suicides happening?

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Yeah, I mean it's one of the most mysterious things in terms of mental health. So I love, yeah, I we as far as I know, we don't have that. I mean, obviously we have other, you know, uh do you guys in Australia is there also the May Mental Health Month? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Yeah, I think it's a global initiative, that one.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

I would hope so. I mean, I I never know where to look up these things because there's you know, there's a every month has some kind of theme, but mainly for sure. Yeah.

High Performance Depends On State

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Uh so you know, you specialize in performance under pressure, and how do you define healthy high performance versus harmful overdrive?

SPEAKER_01 5:12

It all comes back to our state. Everything about what we do is determined by the state we're in while we do what we do. Most people think what we do is important, but where I come from is what state we're in, while we do. Because if you're if you're celebrating your kid's birthday, but your state is you're chronically stressed, you're overwhelmed, and you're riddled with anxiety and you're in fight-flight or the sympathetic nervous system, then celebrating your kid's birthday will be influenced by your state and it'll be hijacked by your state.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

So I always come back to firstly what state people are in. But secondly, when we get clear on coming from a calm state, the peace and peace response that's the parasympathetic nervous system. We find that there's more efficient brain optimization, we have much better focus, much better clarity, better decision making where our brain is operating from a different place. So there's high performance from a stressed state, which is very inefficient, very ineffective, and leads to obviously chronic burnout, riddled with anxiety, poor sleep, insomnia. That will lead to uh poor health, that will lead to poor relationships. It just kind of spills over into lots of areas of our life. Whereas if we can come from a state of calm clarity, then our performance will be much, much more efficient.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Yeah, I love that. It's a lot of what I teach too. So I can't wait to kind of dive deeper into this conversation. So, you know, I'm curious why you think people struggle with burnout. You know, because it sounds like you, you know, with your panic attacks, like you had reached burnout, even at a young age. People think, whoa, your 20s, it looked really sexy. You know, I guess why do you think these high performers struggle with acknowledging burnout, even though they appear successful on the outside?

SPEAKER_01 6:51

You

Why High Achievers Miss Burnout

SPEAKER_01 6:52

know, one of the things with high performers is they're very, very capable people and they have a lot of drive. There's a certain personality trait. And if you put them through something like a disc profile, which is a personality trait for business, you know, you'll generally tend to find that high performers uh have a very sort of specific personality. And what happens with that is unfortunately for them, unless they get that checked and regulated, they will put so much emphasis and so much of their focus on getting the outcome. And they're in what we call outcome-oriented mode, which means that I won't feel fulfilled unless I get this outcome happening, unless I get this spreadsheet across the line, unless I get this marketing plan done, unless I conquer this business, unless I buy this other business, unless I make my business succeed. And so they're just driven and driven and driven, not being able to really take in the full process, just simply looking blindedly at the end goal. And they're completely oblivious until it gets to the point where it's it's almost breaking point that things become almost dysfunctional, which is what happened to me. And what I want to do is help people take in the whole approach to getting your goal done. And we don't want to, you know, I just ran a retreat for 20 people the other day in Bali on a private exclusive retreat. And these were billionaires and politicians. So these are people that have been extremely successful in one area of their life, and that's making money. Yeah. And what we found with a lot of them, which was not surprising, but certainly common, is that they'd become so good at one thing, which is making money and making their businesses survive and thrive, that their health had deteriorated. A lot of them had struggling relationships because they'd compromised many other aspects of their life. And we really don't want to be coming at from that angle. We want to have a very holistic approach to the way we're we're living life.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

I find that high performers they just push so close to the limit, which is why they're like, want to see how far they could get, or like, you know, how close to burnout without actually burning out, you know, and I'm sure that you've you've seen that too. And I've read this concept that there's all these different types of wealths, you know, like financial wealth, and so the well-being is like what billionaires would give anything to, but as you get older, you can't redo that, you know. I mean, obviously you could recommit to health and well-being, but you can't like relive your 20s, you know, after you maybe did it in like an unhealthy kind of way. Does that how do you run your retreats? Like, does that come up at all for some of these folks that have like all you know the resources at their hands?

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Yeah, look, I mean, we can't reverse the clock as far as, in one respect,

Meditation And Biological Aging

SPEAKER_01 9:23

go back to our 20s chronologically, but we can certainly reverse the clock biologically. And this is something that was a phenomenon for me. You know, when I started working as a broker, I got my biological age test done at the age of 29. So I'd been a broker for 10 years from 19 to 29. Now, my biological age at 29, after 10 years of intense working on a trading roof floor and intense partying, was 37. So I'd age quite dramatically more than I had chronicologically. Now I started meditating and doing retreats, and uh I had reversed my age by the time I was 42. Now I was still working as a broker, same career, same company, same clients. But at 42, my biological age had reversed from 37 to 34 when I was 42. Chronicologically, we can't go back and relive our 20s, but we can slow the aging process down. And this is proven scientifically that when we meditate, you know, we lengthen our telemarets, we reduce the stress response, and that slows down the aging process. So I always say to people, it's never too late. You know, I've worked with 60-year-old CEOs that are billionaires that had deteriorated health, and within just a few weeks or months, we'd see their health turn around, their well-being turn around, and things starting to really take a better shape um in their life and have better, I think, a better balance in their life.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Yeah, balance. I mean, that's the foundation of meditation, equanimity, finding that balance. How far is Bali from you?

SPEAKER_01 10:48

For us, we're blessed. It's only five, six hours, uh, which is really great.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

So it's like a stretch short for you all.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Yeah, that's that's a really quick trip. That's like just down the road.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

I was just talking about that with my one of my Zen teachers, actually. I was just like, oh, Australia, because he had met this Australian couple on they were in Portugal. And I was like, you know, they just they they know how to they know how to holiday. Uh those you people, you know, from Australia. Like, you know, because nothing's close, you know. So when you holiday, you holiday really well because you just gotta, you know, you're gonna make the most of it. You gotta make the most of it. I and I love that. What kind of uh so you talked about like becoming a meditation teacher, and I'd be curious to hear, you know, that journey, like what that was like to become the meditation, what what type of meditation you studied and all that.

Vedic Meditation And Mantras

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Yeah, I did a lot of research into meditation, and uh this was for my own personal research and personal use. And what I found was that a lot of them, you know, I was a broker and I I wanted something efficient, I wanted something effective, but more importantly, something that I could easily put into my day that wasn't gonna, you know, take up a lot of time. And some of the meditations were really long and really arduous, you know, you have sort of more for Pashna style meditations, which were you know more of the Buddhist type background. Um, some of them I just didn't find that I was getting much benefit out of them, you know. Like at that point in time I was extremely stressed, overwhelmed, my mind was running a million miles an hour. So chakra rebalancing just wasn't going to work for me. You know, it's just like this is not what I wanted to do. But when I found what initially was called transcendental meditation, TM, and now I call it Vedic meditation, they're both very similar, Vedic, yeah, Vedic meditation. Very similar methodology, which is where you have a particular mantra, and that's a primordial resonance that you repeat inside your brain very silently, very quietly, I should say, and without moving your tongue or your lips. And it's kind of like a resonance that you turn over inside your mind. And what it does is that it shifts your brainwave frequency from beta down into a deep delta brainwave frequency, and we go into a really deep and accessible meditation very quickly. And what I loved about it was that firstly, it was very enjoyable. I didn't struggle with it. I've actually found a lot of bliss in it. The second thing was that I went really deep really easily. Um, and that allowed my body to have a very healing process, it was very physiological. So all my stress responses simply melted away within days and weeks of me doing this meditation. It was quite amazing. My insomnia, my agrophobia, my depression, my anxiety, my panic attacks simply melted away as my body shifted state. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Do you change the mantra, or like how do you kind of teach people about how to find a mantra and how often do you change it?

SPEAKER_01 13:23

So when someone wants to learn, they'll get what we call initiative, they'll get uh a particular process to where they actually get their their mantra, and that mantra will be determined by how old they are when they're learning the technique. And as they go through life, that mantra will stay the same with them through their life, but they'll get over time more extended versions of that existing mantra, and what that will do is it will take them from that deep experience into a more broader, wider experience, an expansive experience.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

That's really beautiful. And uh what what's a simple practice you think someone could start today if they wanted to because you've taught you've taught so much mindfulness and meditation.

A Simple Breath Reset

SPEAKER_02 13:58

What what's a simple practice?

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Yeah, you know, if someone's got a little bit of overwhelm, or they've just their mind is running rampant, they you know they're struggling to sleep, or they're feeling that anxieties in their day a lot. You know, to the simplest and most accessible thing we can do is just to simply close our eyes, sit in a chair comfortably, we don't have to be in lotus position or anything silly like that. Just simply close your eyes and then just bring your attention to the breath moving in through the nostrils. And what you'll find is that as the breath moves in and out of the nostrils, and we keep our attention on this very single point, which is the cool air just inside the rim of the nostrils. And what you'll find is as the breath moves in and out, as the air brushes the moisture just inside the nostril, it creates a cooling effect. And it's very, very subtle just around the rim of the nostril. So what you'll do there is by keeping the attention on that one single point, you're going to bring that mind from all those fluctuate fluctuations and oscillations into a very centered point. And what that will do, the body will respond to your mind being centered, and then your body will become centered and calm. And so you could do that parked in your car, in an office chair, in a church pew, anywhere where you feel that you can sit safely and quietly with your eyes closed, you can do that.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Yeah. Parked car, not driving.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

That's a good point. Unless it's a Tesla automotive automatic.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Oh, that's right. Yeah. Do you have all those uh self-driving cars in Australia? We're getting them now. We've got we're just starting to get them happening in our country. Yeah, in California we have like the taxis that don't have drivers. It's wild wild. This is uh so what is your daily routine look like?

Routines That Build Resilience

SPEAKER_02 15:32

So, like, you know, Tom Cronin's kind of helping all these people. So, what does your daily routine look like?

SPEAKER_01 15:36

You know, I really believe a lot in walking the talk. And I think that, you know, if we want to be a leader in the world, we have to have a very holistic approach to wellness and balance. So my morning routines and evening routines are very specific. You know, I have a long one and a short one, so depending on what what I've got on that morning, but a long one will require some tongue scraping with a uh a tongue scraper, and then I will drink a large glass of warm water with some either some hydrolytes or apple cider vinegar or some squeeze of lemon in it just to alkalise the body and rehydrate. And then I'll go into if I've got time, I would do an oil pulling, so that swelling coconut oil in my mouth to extract bacteria out of the mouth. Takes about 10-15 minutes. During that, I would normally stretch. I'll generally go to the gym most mornings. Um I like to do some form of vigorous movement. So that would be exercise and that would be a mix of cardio versus or cardio and some grounding weights, uh, which as we get older, I think everyone should be doing weights to help muscle definition of bone density. And then I'll do my meditations, some gratitude, and that kind of all up would be roughly between two to three hours of morning routine, so five till eight.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

But a short routine would take me 45 minutes, and that would just be a condensed version of all of that, and maybe I'd do the gym a bit later on in the day.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Yeah. I love that you said that walk the walk. I mean, we I I think that's so critical to be able to do that. You know, you can't just preach this stuff, you have to do it yourself. Do you think the companies are doing that?

SPEAKER_01 17:00

You know, like I think they're slowly. You know, I've got a keynote presentation next week with a company I worked with, a lot of organizations. You know, generally a lot of companies want me to do a keynote first, and I say to them, look, you know, the staff will get some value in the 60 minutes, but what we really need to do is get them integrating this on a daily basis. So that's always a harder one. But um, you know, staff seem to still prioritize getting stuff done rather than what state they're in while they get stuff done. But slowly we're seeing some changes happening for sure.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Because you've talked about stigma. So do you think that the stigma is still an issue? Like you're still working towards reducing stigma?

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Yeah, you know, I've got one, I

Workplace Stigma Around Meditation

SPEAKER_01 17:35

just did a post on LinkedIn yesterday, one of my students has completely changed her day. She said it's been an absolute productivity hack. And she books every day when she's starting to fade around that two, three in the afternoon. She books one of the meeting rooms in the company. And she goes into the meeting room and she, you know, they have that frosted glass a little bit, uh, but not the full thing, just a little bit. And then she said that she has a laptop up, she has a mouse there, and she has a pen and pad, but then she'll sit and close her eyes and meditate. Now, she can't quite tell her company that this is what she's doing yet. She says they're just not ready for that yet. So she has to pretend that she's in an office doing something. But what she's doing is meditating. She says that she comes out of that completely refreshed, her brain is being regenerated. It's it's like going to a gym and lifting dumbbells and never taking a break. Eventually you're going to get atrophy, the muscle's just going to wear and tear. And that's what's happening to people's brains, that that through the day, they're just fading so quickly these days. And part of that is that in the old days, you know, when you and I used to go to work, um, you know, I certainly remember when I was 19 and on the train going to work, you know, this was this was in 1987, so there's no internet. Now, from the time I woke up to the time I got to work, the only mental stimulation I would have had was either maybe listening to the radio, which I didn't do before work, or reading a book or the newspaper. Right. And both of those are actually quite relaxing. Whereas these days, you know, we would have read 15 emails, you know, scrolled through, you know, a

Phones Turn Breaks Into More Stress

SPEAKER_01 19:05

thousand newsfeeds on Instagram and you know, talked to five friends before we even got to work at eight o'clock. So it's it's kind of crazy how much we're going through at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

So it sounds like you would agree with me uh uh on how these devices are both the best invention and one of the worst things that's happened to us.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Yeah, I asked a company, a child manager the other day, I was having a meeting with them about whether I was gonna work with them. And I said to them, just tell me what your staff do when they take that break. They're taking a break because they're gonna need a break, right? Yeah, you can only do spreadsheets for so long. And she says, Oh, they'll probably go down and um you know go to the coffee cart and grab a coffee down on the street. I said, Okay, cool, I'd probably agree with you there. Now, what do you think they're gonna do while they're waiting for their coffee to be made and while they're drinking their coffee down on the street? Totally. She went, they're probably on their phones. I said, Correct. Now, yeah, when they're on their phones, they're gonna do one of two things. They're either gonna look for dopamine and scroll through their Instagram while they're drinking something that's highly stimulating, which is the caffeine and dehydrating, of course. Or they're probably gonna think, well, look, I'm a bit behind, I've been doing these spreadsheets all day, I better check my emails. And now they're gonna start scrolling through the emails, trying to catch up on work in this 20-minute break, and they're not actually taking any breaks whatsoever.

unknown 20:18

No.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

And this is why we're getting burnout because there's no reprieve, there's no timeout.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

No timeout, and so we have to have boundaries around that. So I'm sure that you would agree with that. And it's it's critical for resilience. Like you, you know, you I'm sure you teach as you teach that kind of thinking about awareness. Like you need to be aware that you need to break and that you might want to check your phone, but just let that go, let that come and go.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Yeah, what we're finding now with peak performance and all the research I'll be doing. I studied with Stephen Coton, the P Peak Performance Flow Research Collective. What they found with studies is that the average worker in the office is getting about 2.3 hours worth, sorry, 3.2 hours worth of work a day. That's wild. And that's because we're checking our phones while we're doing spreadsheets. It's it's while we're getting distracted by someone coming up to us and talking about the sport on the weekend and just this constant break in our concentration, and we're just not being able to stay focused on things very long anymore.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Yeah, and I don't know what the culture's like in Australia, but you know, here like we've kind of post-COVID gotten back to like trying to get people back in the office. And I'm like, this is not the answer. You know, the answer is finding balance in this because people are not productive in the office, just just because they're sitting there. I love I love your example of the student. She pretends like she's go her.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Yeah, yeah, totally. And hopefully, you know, she said my company I is not ready to hear the fact that she's meditating. I said, you know, that can change. And I've got some companies that I've worked with, more of the smaller ones rather than the large law firms or accounting firms, but the smaller ones, they actually put it out across their internet in the company. Hey, everyone, there's a group of us going to the boardroom, we're all going to go and meditate if anyone wants to join us. Beautiful. And those companies are seeing a huge improvement in their focus, in their productivity, and also in the harmony within the workplace. When they're allowing their staff to actually take that time out.

Shifting Leaders From Greed To Good

SPEAKER_01 22:03

So what's next for you? Yeah, big things, I hope. Yeah. That's the the seed des plan. I've been working with a lot of family officers, millionaires, uh politicians, large organizations. So what I never saw happening until just recently, and I've been doing this for gosh, I've been meditating for 30 years, but teaching for 15. It predominantly was a very tiny little living level of inquiry at the top end of town. That's the wealthy and the elite, I guess you'd call them. But most of the inquiry was coming from the masses. But for the first time, I'm starting to see people that can pull the levers on the planet in a big way. They have a lot of influence, a lot of impact in the world. One of them on my retreat is running for prime minister in a comp country in a couple of years. Nice. And so their ability to impact large groups of people uh is is there. And you know, I'm really interested at working with that top end of town a lot more, large organizations. You know, if we've got a company that's got 30,000 staff, yeah, they can suggest, impose, or promote the idea of certain ways of living in the world that are a lot more integrated, harmonious. And the way I'm seeing it is that the planet for it to shift, we need three main, I guess, components to that. We need cruelty to move to compassion, we need vice to move to virtue. And we need what's the last one? There's one more that we need greed to move to generosity. I love it. Okay. And if we can get those three levers or shifts happen, then I think we can have a very different. And that's got to happen from the top down. It's got to happen with our global leaders, it's got to happen with our business leaders.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

I love that. I mean, we always like some tips. So let's let's say those three again because those I I think that that was uh let's say them again.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

We'll do them alphabetically. So yeah, cruelty to compassion. Cruelty to compassion. It's not that hard, right? If we just stop being cruel and be more compassionate. Totally. Um and I love these Buddhist monks that walked across America. It was so powerful to see what happened.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

So cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

We want to move from greed to generosity. Yeah, and that's not hard either. Look at all companies. If all companies can be more generous and less greedy, I mean we've got some of the biggest companies in the world in their country, like Australia, and they don't pay any taxes. It's like, come on, be a bit more generous. And then the final thing is vice to virtue. And this is a tough one because it's very hard for us as individuals to be virtuous and companies to be virtuous and to be to be good and wholesome and to not just do things that are wrong. But if we can shift that, that's going to be a big one.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

I think the high performers I work with, I think struggle because they revert back to their knee-jerk reaction of what they know, and so they kind of grasp hard, you know, and so there's a little glimpse into like, well, actually, if you let go, you might perform at a higher level. And so that that that that reality is starting to sink in, but it kind of vacillates back and forth, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Yeah, look, you know, I think it's a not a straight line, it's gonna be uh sometimes two steps forward, some one step back, and that's certainly been my life. Sometimes it's like one step forward and three steps back. Yeah, it's yeah, it's like what am I doing here? Like, how did I get here again?

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Yeah,

Where To Find Tom Closing

SPEAKER_02 25:04

yeah. Yeah, well, thanks so much, Tom. This was like really such a wonderful conversation. And uh where where I know we'll have all the links, but where could people, if they want to learn more about you and your work, where could they find you?

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Uh certainly Instagram is a place I like to communicate with people. I find it's very interactive. I like the level of interaction with Instagram. So they can find me at Tom Cronin there. LinkedIn is another place. They can find me on uh officer on LinkedIn a lot. So Tom Cronin1, I think it is there on LinkedIn. And then my website where they can find everything about my retreats and meditation courses if they want to learn to meditate. And that's just simply tomcronin.com.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

Wonderful. So we'll have all the links in in the uh description for this episode. And Tom, really, this was a great conversation, and I think we we walk a very similar walk. So it was nice to kind of hear hear that from your perspective.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

And thanks for sharing space and thanks for creating a container like this where we can have these conversations are so important.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

They're very important. And you know, that's why for this month we're highlighting mental health, and so all the stuff that Tom just talked about. You know, I'm gonna repeat these one more time because I think they're so great. So, cruelty to compassion, greed to generosity, and vice to virtue. You know, if we can, that's really great advice from Tom Cronin. And that is one thing that can improve your mental health if you start to think about ways that you can do that. So that's what a gift you gave people, Tom. Thank you for that. All right, we'll be back here next week uh with more conversations around mental health in the month of May. Until then, take care of yourselves, spread a little kindness, and stay well.