Leading a life of purpose without the burnout

Join Dr. Pete and Kurt Bush - the founder of Brimstone Coaching, as they discuss helping individuals break through limitations, sharpen their mindset, and build the kind of resilience that creates lasting success. Kurt brings a direct, practical approach to leadership and personal growth- and today's episode will discuss what it takes to lead with purpose, overcome adversity, and create momentum both personally and professionally.

Learn more about Kurt and Brimstone Coaching Here: 
https://www.brimstonecoachinggroup.com

Transcript

Welcome And Mental Health Month

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Hello and welcome back to On Air with Dr. Pete. I'm your host, Dr. Pete Economo, and we are glad to have you here again. And as it is, May Mental Health Awareness Month. So we are diving into conversations related to mental health. I always say every month is mental health month for me in the line of work that I do, and that will be the same for our guest today. And so we are today's guest will say a lot about this subject and excited to get right to it. Kurt Busch is the founder of Brimstone Coaching, where he helps individuals break through limitations, sharpen their mindset, and build the kind of resilience that creates lasting success. He brings direct practical approach to leadership and personal growth. And today we will hear about what it takes to lead with purpose, overcome adversity, and create momentum, both personally and professionally. So I know if you're listening, who doesn't want that? So Kurt, thanks for being here. Hey, nice to be here, Pete. Thanks for having me. So we are going to break this down. So we're going to lead with purpose, overcome adversity, and create momentum. So I love that. So tell us about yourself and what's inspired you to become an advocate for mental wellness.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Yeah,

From Manufacturing To Pastoral Leadership

SPEAKER_00 1:18

so what's true is I've got a really weird background, a really weird career background. I spent about a decade in manufacturing. Um I led people in a in a production process. I also did some recruiting, did labor recruiting for a season. Uh, and then I went to seminary late in life and I led a church for uh just about another decade. Uh and I don't know if you remember 2020, Pete. Do you remember 2020? Pretty clearly, yeah. There was a couple things going on. Uh it was in that season in 2020 where uh pastorally in my pastoral leadership, I I had to shift to like helping my volunteer leaders learn how to lead and learn how to manage their anxiety, learn how to navigate the things they're carrying so that they could lead well. And what I learned in that season is I loved that work and it was extremely gratifying. And what happened is in the the organization I was with, over the course of time, we got further away from the pandemic, the culture started to take, and I got to coach like that way less. What was needed of me shifted. So I really started to lean into like how do I coach more? And slowly over time, I started coaching more leaders around me and then launched a coaching practice in 2024.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

So we're gonna break that down. I mean, I felt like we maybe fast-forwarded right to that. I mean, I when you just drop this like pastoral work, I mean, that sounds really important. I like can you speak a little bit more about that journey?

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so I uh early in my life, I I was uh connected to an organiz uh a church organization where I got to lead. I had a really good mentor that helped me kind of understand what leadership looks like. And then over the course of time realized like that was something I wanted to pursue. Nice. Some doors opened for me. Uh yeah, I was like 35 when I started seminary, which is crazy. Probably don't do that if you're a listener. No, I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Well, that's I mean, that's why do you say that though? It's sarcasm. That's well, I know that, but like if you say 30, 35 to me seems late. Well, that that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Okay, good. Okay. That is late. I wanted to make sure. Okay, yeah. That that was, I mean, I had kids, we had kids that were in school already. It was it was a huge life transition. You know, I can look back now and see like even that taught me and my family a lot. Yeah. But yeah, that that leaned into or that led to uh I I led in an organization uh for about two years, then I went to launch a new campus of a church on January 1st of 2020, which is like the perfect time when you look back. My goodness, yeah, yeah. Uh so yeah, what was exciting for me is that was a season where we were trying to build culture, we were trying to uh, you know, build something uh in a new place. Uh it was really enticing, and then it just shifted so quickly into like, man, now we gotta like help people learn how to navigate anxiety, and we've got to help help people who are, you know, like 2020. There was a lot in 2020.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Well, when you say January 2020, I'll never forget that. As I mean, no one, a lot of the world won't, but you were starting a church and I was starting a mental health program at the university within athletics. So I had just been tapped December of 19 to be like, hey, the system's not working, can you fix this? And then all of a sudden January 2020 started, and then as we know, March, April is when the world changed.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and you know, we we would say a lot, like I don't know how much the world changed as much as it just uncovered what was already present. Yeah, totally in the way we showed up. But yeah, just in a heartbeat, I I had to go from being like organizational leader to like, man, how do I help these people show up? Yeah, and how do I help these people myself too? Like I sure I have a coach, I had a good coach to help me do this, and then how do I help these people who uh you know are just trying to survive? Like, how do I help them also show up and lead well while they're anxious, while they're scared, while they're feeling all that there was to feel in that?

SPEAKER_01 4:59

So, in your

Imposter Syndrome And The Inner Critic

SPEAKER_01 5:00

in your experience, either from then to now, what are some of the biggest mental health struggles that you think professionals and entrepreneurs are facing? Yeah, it's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Um, I mean, I uh like imposter syndrome is everywhere. Yeah. I I would probably lump inner critic into that too. Sure. I I think there is some. I mean, I'd love to hear what you say, but I think there is some inner critic that is healthy. Yeah. Like there is some piece of that that drives us and motivates us to learn and grow. But I see so much inner critic that just drives the bus, if you will. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Yeah. Inner critic is it's funny when you said it that way. It's it is a mental health struggle. I mean, we we in CBT cognitive therapy, we we frame that into like anxiety or some other sort of aspects of cognitive distortions, and uh, but the inner critic can be useful, yeah, is what I heard you saying. And so, yeah, it it can be. It's it's understanding what I usually say is like just lowering the volume. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We would say something similar, like can we lower the volume and can we like weed out what's true? Can we disconnect it from shame? Right. You know, we are not clinical therapists, so we try to stay in our lane, if you will. But yeah, can we disconnect it from the the stories we believe about ourselves? You know, if if the inner critic can drive me to say, you know, you're right, I don't know how to do that. I should probably learn how to do that thing, or I should probably learn that concept. That that's different than see, you're never gonna be a good coach, or you're never gonna be a good CEO, or you're never gonna do this, or whatever. So yeah, I think those are big. I mean, I think this kind of hustle grind culture that we live in, uh, it's not necessarily a mental health struggle, but it leads to so much exhaustion and so much, I don't even like the word burnout in this case, but it leads to so much like it's there. Yeah, it's there, and comparison with others. And yeah, I think those are what we see most of.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

So tell us more about imposter syndrome, the way that you see that showing up uh, you know, in your yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

So here's how it shows up first. Somebody looks into the zoom camera with this sort of embarrassed look and says, Am I the only one that feels this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, actually, yeah, it's it's everywhere. So that's how it starts. But but what we see with our clients is that the it's often linked to a fear, the fear of being found out, which then leads to all sorts of hiding, all sorts of compensating, which which is what we would say is the unsustainable part of that imposter syndrome.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Yeah. Do you uh do you work predominantly with men? Or I know that sort of, or do you see that there's like sort of uh like what men are struggling with today and if there's still stigma related to some coaching around some of these men leaders?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Yeah,

Leadership Stigma And Life In Iowa

SPEAKER_00 7:34

it's a good question. Our our client load is is just about 50-50 men and women. I do think there is a stigma of male leaders of what they're supposed to do and how they're supposed to be. I think it's less. I think it's we also are in kind of a weird part of the country where there's some other kind of male-female things around leadership.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

And well, I I'm glad you just so I'm curious. What does that mean? Like unpack that a little bit more because you're in like where are you that you would say that?

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Yeah, we're in Iowa. We're in like we're in a community, and I I love where I live, but yeah, we're not from here, we're kind of outsiders looking in. What we see is that we're in sort of this sheltered, kind of isolated area where we say it's 40 years behind. And I think part of that has been on purpose. I I think you know, a community builds its values and protects against things they feel like are gonna threaten their values. And yeah, I mean, I I think there probably is a sort of mental model that says men lead, yeah, or men are equipped to lead. I obviously we as our coaching group push on that as hard as we can. Sure, sure. So I I think we do see some stigma. I think generally that stigma of like men lead, women don't, and then also then men lead like XYZ. I do think that's going a going away, but certainly there is a stigma. I'm grateful it's less though. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Well, it was curious because when you were talking about just the fast-paced world, knowing that you're in Iowa, I was curious of like, I wonder how you'd feel in New York, like where I am, you know, because I mean I there's still a difference, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I think I mean, I I don't even Pete, I don't know if we want to go there, but I I don't even know, like, when I say like the pace of life or the hustle, hustle grind, I I'm not sh even sure that I want to make a connection to like burnout with pace. I'm not even sure burnout is about pace. I think it's probably more about alignment than it is pace. Yeah, yeah. And pace is relative, you know. I think not being from this area we are, like we we notice the pace of life is so much slower, and that's a gift. And people that are here that have grown up here just feel like life is moving so fast. Yeah. Right. So it's certainly relative. It's all relative, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

It's you know, Iowa has a special place in my heart, which sounds weird for me to say because I've never even been there, but because so Vivian Stringer was uh a Hall of Fame basketball coach, and uh she was like 20 years at Ruckers, but but her but she was at Iowa. So she was one co I think she was like the one of the only coaches that brought like three or four different teams to the Sweet 16, or she has all these like accolades, and she's a black woman with a child with disability, and so she has a great book, and she talks about how Iowa really like accepted her, even though you wouldn't think that they would, you know, based on sort of you know some of the socio-political things, but it was a real kind of place that she developed. Um, and obviously there's sports in Iowa are you know really a big part of the culture.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. None of that surprises me. Like I I've maybe said some not gracious things about Iowa, but uh we yeah I mean, uh none of that surprises me that she would be accepted.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So,

Redefining Strength Beyond Pushing Through

SPEAKER_01 10:33

you know, I think a lot of leaders associate pushing through, you know. So I I love that we're saying this around burnout, alignment, resilience. So, how do you redefine strength when it comes to emotional and mental health?

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Yeah, we we think about strength as like maybe strength means that that we have the courage to hit pause when we need to hit pause or create margin or space or implement things like the practice of reflection when the pressure is like push through. I I like push through on some level. I I always want to ask the question of like what are we pushing through to and what's on the other side. Totally. So I I think I would equate that strength to being able to say, look, whatever's going on around me, I I do need a little space to to rest. I do need a little space to to get clear on my my why and how and who I want to be. I I think that's how we think about strength. Kind of different than than like be strong and push through. We would say it takes way more strength to pause and get clear in who who and how we want to be.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

I love that you said that because it is about balance. It's not like it's not never push through, but yeah, you have to have some push through. I mean, uh if you know, no high performer, it doesn't very few high performers had a silver platter where everything was just delivered to them.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Yeah, yeah. Uh that's that's absolutely fair. You know, like even even seasons, right? Like there are seasons when I just when I can't pause and reflect like I want to, or I can't have the margins I want. And if that's a season, that's great. Yeah. If that's a a rhythm that we can't see a way out of, then then I think we'd want to ask more questions about that.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Let's get

Rebuilding Momentum Through Regret Clues

SPEAKER_01 12:02

curious. So when when when someone feels stuck mentally or emotionally, where's the best place for them to begin rebuilding momentum?

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yeah, one of the places we invite clients to go to first is to to notice the places in their rhythm, whether, you know, whether that's work or home or whatever, where they feel regret or remorse. And those are like big strong words. Maybe we don't mean them as strong as it sounds, but like when are the meetings you walk out of and you're like, man, I I didn't show up the way I wanted to. Or where are the hard conversations where like, man, I wish I'd have said that. Or why didn't I say that? We think those are giant red flags or giant indicators that there's something going on there. And and some gentle questions to say, what happened, what's going on, what did I feel, why did I do that? Yeah, is is maybe the the easiest in terms of like process, the easiest place to start a being curious.

Brimstone Coaching And Faith Influence

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Well, I'm curious where I love I keep hearing you talk about we and the approach. And so is that that collective we is that just a strategy that you use, or like what does your team look like? Yeah, good question.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Yeah, because it's just me here, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yeah, just no, I love that. I I do I I manage and lead in the similar what kind of way, but I got curious of like what does Kurt's team look like? Yep.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

So uh right now it's two of us. Uh nice. I co-founded and co-owned this coaching practice with one of my best friends. Awesome. Uh so we we do this uh with any leader we can find. We we would say uh everybody leads something. Yeah. Uh yeah, so he he and I started this in 2024. We would say that we were coaching together but separately for about a decade before that. Yeah. We went to seminary together, we've been good friends for a long time. And yeah, it's it's right now it's just the two of us kind of grinding through this.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

That's really cool. Is faith intertwined at all? Like with since you have the seminary background and the sort of pastoral experience?

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yeah, that's a good question. I I think the easy answer is like explicitly externally facing, no, right. We are not a faith-based coaching organization. I I think we would be silly to say it doesn't impact our philosophy or the tools that we've created or the the the reason we do what we do. You know, I I don't think we can separate that in ourselves. Right. But in terms of uh kind of how we think about the work we do with people, no, no, we're we're not an explicitly Christian coaching practice.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Well, I mean, I so I that's that's real, that's authentic, which we'll get to. You know, that you know, for me, like what what I relate to in that is psychology and zen. And so when I started doing meditation and studying that about 20 years ago, like for me now to to separate the two is like silly to even think, you know, because they're so entwined, because you know, Zen is all about the mind and whatever the mind is, you know, philosophically, but then the idea that uh psychology obvious is trying to understand, heal, and deal with, you know, uh all of that. So yeah, you you can't, you know, you you bring yourself into it, which I hear you saying. Yeah, I love that. So speaking of you, how do you manage your own stress and you know protect your own mental health while helping others?

Counter Systems And Asking Whats True

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Yeah, well, I mean, uh, first of all, I have a I have a good coach and a good therapist.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Which I will advocate for until I run out of words to advocate for them. I think having a coach and a therapist is a must for everybody. Yeah. So I I try to think about two things. I I think about counter systems. I think about you know, if the systems in my life that drain me are related to kind of my work and my coaching, which, you know, as as much as I love the work I do, it drains batteries, right? Totally. Uh so then what are the counter systems that I'm gonna turn to when I need to kind of recharge those batteries? Um, I read a lot. I'm on a Stephen King bender right now. I love Stephen King. Yeah. Um, I also love baseball. I listen on the radio like an old man. Absolutely love sitting on my patio with a with a cold beer, listening to a a baseball game. I love it. So so I think about counter systems. Like, where am I going to intentionally go to recharge batteries? I I think the other thing I think about is the the practice of reflection. Um, and and I mean that in a sense of like intentional examining like what's so in me. Like, how do I get perspective of what's true? What I find about my own mental health and and my emotional health is that the the question what's true keeps me really grounded. Yeah. You know, what what's true about what I'm feeling, what's true about the situations I'm in, what's true about my business, what's true about my family. Uh so I think those two for me are are the the the main kind of key places where I go to to protect my emotional and mental health.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

So reflection, I mean what true is a great question to sit with. Uh I I I heard some of my Zen sisters probably saying, like, but if you're delusional, then you you might not be able to answer. Yeah. You know, because that's sort of the the the root of of Zen is like that everything is sort of diluted up in your brain. And uh, but yeah, being able to ref when you can reflect in a deep way, you you have the answer to what's true or not.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yeah. And I have a good coach and therapist who'll tell me what's true. They'll help me get to what's true.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Uh there we are.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

That I trust will tell me if I am delusional, they will tell me. They're gonna keep it real. Yeah, I hope

A Different Way To Lead And Live

SPEAKER_00 17:07

so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

So there's definitely like a l listener out there who's struggling silently. And what message would you want to leave them with today?

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Yeah, I I think the message that's been so impactful for me is that that that silent struggle doesn't have to be the way that we go about adulthood or leading. What I remember is that I was exhausted and I was struggling, and I thought that was just normal. I thought this is just what it means to adult, if I can use that as a verb.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Um, and certainly there are times, like you said before, where we have to push through. I I think in general, I believe that that silent struggle and exhaustion and just being buried under those things, it just doesn't have to be that way. So I I maybe just want to give a gentle invite to think about another way.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Be oh be open to the idea that there is a different way.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Yes, yes. Openness is a big key. So tell us about Live Fully, Lead Authentically.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Uh, yep. So this is a book we wrote, came out about a year ago. Uh Chris and I, Chris is my my coaching partner. We we really just wanted to capture why we do what we do, uh, and and give sort of our philosophy in a concise way. And that is the book that that sort of captures our heart, our heartbeat of of why it is we do what we do. And then also like, here's the framework that that's come out of our individual work, our sort of work as a coaching practice. Here's here's what we want to offer the world in terms of here's some frameworks to think about self-awareness and think about uh imposter syndrome and those sorts of things.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

What uh so we're getting towards the end, but I I got a little curious about were you always like from the Midwest or like Iowa? You said you're sort of like on the outside looking in, but obviously you really enjoy it. How different was it where you've lived in other in other places?

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Very different.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Really?

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Yeah, so we I spent a lot of time in what what's called the Quad City metro area. It's it's on the Mississippi River between Iowa and Illinois. It's quarter million people. Yeah, it operates like an Omaha or a Sioux Falls or whatever, it's a bigger, a bigger metro area. Again, pace of life is just so fast. And I, you know, I think we we always like I can look back and wonder like what was real in all of that. I I appreciate in parts of Iowa where some some realness and authenticity is a little more present, a little more welcome. Yeah. So and I get it, like there's downfalls to everything, but but I think that that's some of the difference of like, you know, you hear this sort of Iowa nice Iowa salt of the earth, and and I think like there are parts of where we live that that is just really true.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Yeah. It's beautiful, beautiful to have that. And to you know, I I'm I'm thinking that also helps with mental health. You know, we talk about just getting outside and having authentic connection and you know, being able to see sort of nature and you know, you know, the beauty of it. And obviously that's part of yeah, there's a lot of people on the east coast here that will make a commitment to try and go to every state or you know, it's it's uh to try and experience other parts of this country because there's so much out there.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Yeah, there is something beautiful. Like I I didn't love when we first came here, it's very flat. Yeah, but the horizons are big and the sunsets and sunrises are beautiful. Yeah, and you know, you get to see corn come up and you get to see it grow. Like there is something beautiful about a change of season where things grow and things harvest, and yeah, yeah. There's a special kind of beauty that's not the Rocky Mountains, but it certainly does have a form of beauty. Yeah, flat could be beautiful, yeah. Big horizons, you know, that's always what we say.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah. I uh I you know, I've never lived anywhere that doesn't have seasons, so for me, that's such a big thing, and it's also just another mental health zen sort of third wave CBT thing is that nothing lasts forever and it's constantly changing. And if you yeah, I mean the seasons are just a like the most tangible reminder of that, you know. It's like you know, now when you're annoyed we're annoyed by our allergies right now. Yeah, but it's like but that's growth, you know, it's such a beautiful thing that it requires that you know annoyance to then have these, you know, crops and the beauty of what you know then comes out after that. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, so this was great.

Where To Learn More And Closing

SPEAKER_01 21:04

So Kurt was I really appreciate you being here.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

So if people want to learn more about brimstone coaching, where would they go? Yeah, we have a website, brimstonecoaching group.com. There's uh resources on there to help people understand who we are and and why we do what we do. Again, we being Chris and I uh together. Uh yeah, just just a glimpse into who we are. There's there's resources on there. People can click for free and have a conversation with us. No charge, no obligation to see if our philosophy matches with where they feel stuck. Love it.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

And we'll have that in the show notes as well. So, Kurt, thank you so much for being here. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, and for you listening at home, thank you for listening. Your continued support is the reason that we are here and to keep having important conversations and advocating for mental health awareness. We truly appreciate each and every one of you that tune in. And so please remember to like, follow, and share. Everything's at official drpeet.com. Mental health awareness month is May, and we will continue to have these conversations. And we'll be back next Friday. Until then, spread a little kindness and stay well.