The Corvus Effect

Ep. 80: The Complexity Trap - Why Simple Beats Sophisticated with Christine Campbell Rapin

• Scott Raven • Episode 80

Share episode

Episode Links:

Website - https://www.ChristineCampbellRapin.com

LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/christinecampbellrapin 

Free eBook: 25 Ways to Find Your Next Client, Predictably - https://go.christinecampbellrapin.com/Buyers

Amplify Your Marketing Message Podcast - https://christinecampbellrapin.com/podcast/

Summary:

Christine Campbell Rapin, CEO of Clear Acceleration, Inc., has helped over 400 companies generate more than $1 billion in revenue through elegantly simple business growth. A three-time international bestselling author with an MBA in international business, she calls out founders trapped in the complexity trap—those who've made their businesses so complicated they're stuck as Chief Everything Officer. Her frameworks include the "three lanes of traffic" for identifying ready buyers, the Client Waterfall methodology, and Five Foundations (Know, Move, Make, Lead, Scale), all built on the principle that conversation beats automation and "ready" is a decision, not a feeling.  Christine challenges entrepreneurs to embrace what she calls "beautiful, boring, stable businesses" that create freedom through compound wins, and showing that pursuing what you want while staying vibrant beats truncating emotions in corporate mediocrity.

Show Notes:

00:32 Meet Christine Campbell Rapin

02:49 From Nine Industries to Elegantly Simple Growth

05:20 Winning Over Overwhelm

11:06 Building a Business That Rewards You

13:45 From Likable Expert to Must-Hire Authority

16:51 Three Lanes of Traffic: Finding Ready Buyers

22:25 The Power of Real Conversation Over Automation

24:59 Five Foundations and Getting Out of Sequence

27:53 Five Foundations and the Sequence Problem

31:39 The Client Waterfall: Solving One Problem at a Time

37:07 Building Community and Breaking Loneliness

39:25 Legacy: Creating Tables for Real Conversations

45:38 Final Thoughts

Intro

Scott Raven: Welcome to The Corvus Effect, where we explore what it takes to succeed professionally and truly enhance all parts of your life. I'm Scott Raven, Fractional COO and your host. Each episode we go behind the scenes with leaders who've mastered the delicate harmony of growing their professional endeavors while protecting what matters most. Ready to transform from Chief Everything Officer to achieving integration in all facets of your life? Let's soar!


Meet Christine Campbell Rapin

Scott Raven: And hello everyone. Welcome back to The Corvus Effect. I'm Scott. Today I'm excited to welcome Christine Campbell Rapin, CEO and owner of Clear Acceleration, Inc., a global business growth expert who's helped over 400 companies generate more than 1 billion dollars in revenue. Yes, you heard me right—that's billion with a B. She's a three-time international bestselling author, holds an MBA in international business, and hosts the Amplify Your Marketing Message podcast, which has twice been nominated for Women in Podcasting awards.

She tells it like it is in order to call out founders who are stuck in the complexity trap. With over 25 years of experience in marketing, sales, and operations, helping businesses scale past their initial blockades to transform from bottleneck operators to strategic CEOs, bringing what she calls a boardroom brain and a mentor's heart to help drive success.

So Christine, welcome to the podcast.

Christine Campbell Rapin: Welcome. Nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

Scott Raven: Well, welcome, welcome. The honor is ours, I'll put it that way, particularly when I could just jump and lead into 400 companies over a billion dollars in revenue. I mean, yeah, you're slacking, sure.

Christine Campbell Rapin: When I'll be honest, what's the big number? And I'm like, I don't know. And they're like, no, go count. And I was like, holy cow, because the truth is every one of those dollars was earned one at a time.

Scott Raven: Exactly. Exactly. And when you talk about being earned one at a time and elegantly simple growth, which is where your expertise in part of that was your own journey in order to see why complexity was not the way—simplicity was in business. And I'd like for you to take us back to your roots in terms of the start of what everything has become since.


From Nine Industries to Elegantly Simple Growth

Christine Campbell Rapin: You know, I have this very interesting and highly eclectic career story. I have worked in nine unrelated industries, and I mean vastly unrelated—from manufacturing and pharmaceuticals to luxury hospitality, to fast-moving consumer goods, to building the worldwide web back in the start days of dot-com world. And when you look back, you think like, how is that possible?

And it became possible because I was clear on two things. My next opportunity would not come through anything other than a relationship, because I was not the person who was easy to hire. I wasn't just one duck quacking. I was a bit of a bird of a different feather.

And the second thing that I really knew was any opportunity I went into, because I didn't have the colossal 10 years of industry experience, 30 years of industry experience, I wasn't one thing. So coming in, I knew about an inch well to be valuable in that one inch. But I was also keenly aware that everything else around me was unknown and it was a liability as long as I let it be a liability.

And so I was really quick to recognize the relationships were key and I needed to understand how I could connect to somebody else with the one inch where I could win, and how I could help them win and build trust fast. So anytime I was brought in as a hire, I was really clear what my lane was, what I needed to win in it, and what winning looked like for the person who hired me. And I said that meant that I got invited to some very creative opportunities—hired at things that I thought half the time, oh my God, what did I game you into? But I would honor them well and swim.


Winning Over Overwhelm

Scott Raven: Well, you know what? As we learned in Finding Nemo, just keep swimming sometimes is a great mentality. But you know, a lot of the folks who listen to this podcast—they're founders, they're entrepreneurs. They're striving towards their definition in terms of being their businesses to the legacy that they desire, but they sometimes get trapped in the overwhelm.

And it sounds like through your journey, there were many times where the overwhelm could have trapped you along the way in terms of, oh my God, what have I gotten myself into? What were some things and strategies you learned in terms of handling the overwhelm?

Christine Campbell Rapin: Well, let me tell you, I say this to clients and it's hugely irritating, so I'm going to irritate all your peeps and all your listeners.

Scott Raven: You know what? We believe in the brutal truth around here, so go ahead.

Christine Campbell Rapin: Let me tell you what overwhelm—when I hear people say I'm overwhelmed, you know what I hear? You're not winning. Because winning is something we are dopamine addicts for. It's self-fulfilling and it creates its own momentum. When someone says the sky is falling and I'm overwhelmed, I'm like, what I just simply hear is you're not winning at anything. And that's a choice.

And so what I actually said in, you know, where did I start? I was like, I knew the one inch to win in. So I just had to play the game of where could I win? And as long as I kept, in some ways, blinders on to that simple win in the lane that they hired you to win in, I allowed myself to not carry the burden of things I didn't know. And yes, to some sense, ignorance on fire is a helpful place to be from. You've got to recognize one, I get out of bed today to win, and that's a game against myself, not a game against others. And I win by getting off zero and staying in my lane.

And so when you want to get out of overwhelm, you need to not look at the runway of a thousand steps you're taking, but how do I take the first win? If you're selling to people and how do we build a billion dollars in revenue, stop selling a unicorn. It's not that I don't want it—I need a short win. And it doesn't matter how small that small win is.

Scott Raven: Yeah, it's pivotal. I mean, you know, part of what we have with Corvus is the 90-day foundational win, right? We have lots of deference and lots of respect for the EOSs of the world, whatnot. But 18 to 24 months in order to see the big things, you need something quick. Now, the problem with a lot of folks who go the entrepreneurial path is they did it because they got tired of being in a lane with whatever their employer was. That they're almost rebelling against that philosophy. But you're saying it's important—it's even more important as a founder or an entrepreneur to be within your lane to get the wins at first.

Why is that?

Christine Campbell Rapin: Because momentum is everything. And when I talk about winning, I want you to understand that the coolest bit of entrepreneurship is that you get to define the win. And that's where it lies, because sometimes when you're escaping from the world of corporate, we're escaping some traditional—I will tell you, you will boomerang as far away from the things you hated, but the ultimate success will be rediscovering those things had value. And that's a journey.

It's usually about 18 to 36 months where you're like, oh, I should have KPIs. Oh, I should have—

Scott Raven: I'm the perfect example of that. I ran away from corporate as quick as I could back in 2019, and now I am a fractional COO helping organizations. I boomeranged back, just like you said, so yep.

Christine Campbell Rapin: When you recognize that, the cool thing is to really think about how—what does success look like? So when I made the decision to start building my own business, it's not the business I have today, but I made this commitment really clear: I would not give someone the control over everything. I would take elements of control one inch at a time. For me, it was one hour a day to move that needle.

But where it all starts is to redefine what success looks like, because we start with the biggest measures—again, we're looking at the revenue as the win, and the revenue is not what you get on day one. But making the phone call, putting myself out there, it's always redefining the micro win, because some days getting out of bed is the win. Other days, taking on the biggest, scary, audacious goal you have—moving it incrementally one millionth of a second forward is the big win.

And nobody will tell you unless you hire a mentor to do this, which I highly recommend you do. Good girl, you're on the right track. And I often say to my clients, one of the things you don't know you needed was a proud elder, because the micro wins to everyone on the outside and to your own measures in the history rearview mirror are not compatible. And so you need to get clear—what's my micro win?

And here's the other caveat, which is the fun bit: for every micro win, how did I choose to reward myself? Because you're in control of both winning and rewarding. And a lot of people go, I didn't earn it yet because the revenue's not there. And I'm like, you don't get to revenue without a lot of micro wins first.


Building a Business That Rewards You

Scott Raven: Right, right. I mean, revenue is, without a doubt, an external form of validation. Somebody is showing you through the currency of money or whatever that they're validating what you've put on the table. But that is not the same as the internal validation you can give yourself every single day.

And you talk about this with a very provocative statement that I absolutely agree with. If you're a business owner that is still the engine of delivery, you don't have a business—you have a job you've built for yourself. I love that statement because I am tired and I'm on a mission to break people from being Chief Everything Officer. And I feel like the Chief Everything Officer comes from the game is too complex. They've made the game too complex. Why is complexity not equal to the sophistication and simplicity that's going to lead them to these wins that we're talking about?

Christine Campbell Rapin: When we first jump out of the parachute of corporate and we start building, be clear: I'm an awesome boss to myself. And so I did buy myself a job and I got a lot bigger paycheck—one that I thought was more equal to the contributions I was making. I kept, you know, I made companies millions and millions of dollars, and I was happy with a six-figure salary. Let's be clear, I didn't get the profit out of that as I could have. It's okay. Start with buying yourself a job because you're better paid and you've got to think about it, and this is a good place, and many people stay there.

Scott Raven: And there are tremendous people who have that philosophy. I was hearing Stephen A. Smith, who's a big sports personality, and he's like, when I go in, I have two things. Number one, how can I make my bosses more money? Number two, how do I get a piece of it? That's a tremendous philosophy. It's a tremendous philosophy to win.

Christine Campbell Rapin: Think about that even as your two hats, because you have to wear at least two hats—employee and CEO. You're always going to be dual hats. You don't need to wear a thousand. That's the problem in the journey. But if you think about it, there comes a time and place where even if you bought yourself an amazing job and you're well more paid than you were in corporate, you make this realization: I don't get days off. I don't get vacation.

And for many entrepreneurs, especially those in the US, it's like I don't actually also feel certain about my healthcare. If your business is highly profitable, of course you should be rewarding yourself as an employee, and the CEO says it's a good cost to bear. But there comes a time where you have to transition and say, how do I create a business so that I create the freedom I want? Not just that I write my own paycheck and I get to choose how I show up today, but how do I create longevity? How do I create stability?

And I think the biggest thing that makes me crazy watching entrepreneurs is like, you are choosing to set yourself on fire. I want a beautiful, boring, stable business. I want to know I get all of my bills paid on the first day of the month, so I'm not scrambling for 28 to 30 other days. I want to know I can say yes to opportunity, and that's the transition from being bought a job to running a business like a business. So it rewards you like a business, and there's a distinct difference there.


From Likable Expert to Must-Hire Authority

Scott Raven: You know, you talk about this distinct difference in a number of different aspects. One of the biggest aspects you talk about is people try too hard to be the likable expert, and they don't position themselves to be the must-hire expert. What are the nuances that people are often missing?

Christine Campbell Rapin: The first piece of the element is what's your ultimate game? You know, if you're going into business, let's be clear, we are trying to commercialize expertise and connecting results, right? The challenge for many people is when they start out in business, they don't buy into that hard enough. The confidence isn't built yet because I haven't proved it to myself. Those around you, if they've seen you excel in corporate, will say, you can do this. And you're like, yeah, but I don't believe it. They believe it, but you don't. And so borrow somebody else's belief.

Scott Raven: That is its own skill set, which, you know, you're not going to get that in corporate. You've got to learn that on the fly.

Christine Campbell Rapin: But when you go into this space of, I don't believe it yet, we fall into the trap that we think if we just first off show up, we'll get a gold star. You're not an employee. You don't. Secondly, if you don't make money, nobody's going to give you a paycheck. So you've got to get focused on income-producing activities. And the third element of this likable expert is applause isn't the same as cash.

In the early days, we get really caught in, let me impress you with my knowledge, let me impress you with my expertise. And it sounds good and it is. However, to commercialize, you have to be intentional about connecting the dots from this expertise is used in this way—you hire me to help you use it. And if you don't believe that you are worth paying for, you don't make offers. You won't trip over themselves and spread out a credit card. I've never seen it happen even in a billion dollars behind me. I've never seen it happen. It won't. Please, I'll celebrate the world when it does, but there's a distinct difference between owning I'm a hired resource, being clear I'm here to commercialize the result with you.

And being clear that there is a distinct issue between applause and being paid. When you are solving a problem that is, I'm going to say, expensive for the buyer, so there's some heartache—missed expectations, disappointment, and trash in their past—the person who's going to buy from you isn't applauding. So beware who you're serving.

And I always say to people, my clients don't like and engage in my content until they're six months of being a client, where they're like, I'm winning and I'm winning consistently. And yes, that was me and I want to talk about it now. But if I was stuck listening for the applause, I'm like, those are not my buyers.

Scott Raven: No, no, no. I mean, there's an old adage in social media that it's the lurkers, not the likers, who are the true potential clients because they're the ones who are sitting on the sidelines beside themselves, not able to applaud, but they're listening to you in the hope that they may be—you may be their answer.

But you know, to the point in terms of buyers, you say there's three lanes of traffic in terms of where you can identify buyers as it relates to your business. What are these three lanes?


Three Lanes of Traffic: Finding Ready Buyers

Christine Campbell Rapin: This is the biggest quick win every client has with me because they've never thought about it this way. And if we can manage the lanes of traffic well, we create our own stability. So there's a slow lane, a middle lane, and a fast lane. So just think of yourself as a California highway here, or US highway with multiple lanes.

The slow lane is somebody who knows about, like had some awareness to a problem, but your services are like a billboard at mile five. They're heading towards you, but they're not a decision-maker for today. So you trying to convince them to speed up or to buy before they're ready is a useless, wasted exercise. And the problem is people get caught in the slow lane hoping for the someday buyer to be ready. Get out of that lane. They'll, when they get to it, be visible and make the offer, but don't get caught here.

And I want every emerging entrepreneur to recognize they spend far too much time with a someday buyer. They're talking to you, but you're like, just because you have a problem doesn't mean you're committed to solving it. And the someday slow lane buyer isn't committed today. And you're looking for buyers today.

Scott Raven: Do you think that that is because, you know, folks hear this common stat that only 3% of people are ready to buy at any given time, right? And you have to sow the seeds and farm the other 97%. Is it the case that you just put too much time into that without realizing, hey, there's a small subset where you can get the win?

Christine Campbell Rapin: A hundred percent. And the challenge is our egos are like, but you know, the bigger gain is the 97%. I'm like, sure. How are you going to pay bills? Let's be clear. The slow lane eventually hits up mile five. You've got to think about what's your runway on cash flow? What's your commitment in your heart to stay the course? And can you have the patience to wait till they're ready? I'm saying, can you get there? Yes. It's just very expensive. So take stock of your current depletion of resources.

Scott Raven: Okay, so for the people like me who have a lead foot and have no patience, right? Let's talk about the other lanes. Let's talk about the other.

Christine Campbell Rapin: So then you get to the middle lane. So this is the bread-and-butter volume of where your business is. This is somebody who is in the current cycle of the problem you want to solve, and you recognize the pattern because either you've lived it or you have intimate knowledge of the pattern so you can spot it. Somebody's currently in a spin, they're in movement. Our job is to intersect a moving freight train, direct it into a way that gets better results, and will get paid well.

If somebody's going to spin, they have two choices. I can white-knuckle my way through the pattern until it dissipates or it burns out, or I can solve it. Sometimes the conversation when you bump into the middle lane is, do you need a life jacket? Here's one. And sometimes you say, you didn't take the life jacket now, but you and I both know this is a repeating problem.

And here's a good business tip 101: solve a repeating problem, you'll create more stability for your revenue and your client growth. And the middle lane is your bread and butter, and you said, I have two jobs. Number one, spark curiosity. Two, invite you to make a decision—white knuckle or solve today. Both of those are buyers for you. That's where you want to spend most of your time with your antenna up in the world saying who's in the moment that I can serve, because that's your buyer today.

You also then have a fast lane, which I call them the unicorn clients. If you build a good engine about knowing who you are, where you serve, what the pivot point is, and how you want to move people, you will attract unicorns. Because there are people who have already been through the white knuckle, already decided I need to solve this because I'm crazy to keep doing this. And they've already decided you are a solution. You might not be the only option, but you are on a short list of candidates.

And your job is to say to that person, are you ready to go? And they're like, yes. And sometimes it's like I'm putting money aside. I'm gearing up and clearing my calendar. They're prepping themselves to be ready, but they're scared to pull the trigger. You need to spot them in the fast lane and say, it sounds like, you know, I'm watching your anticipation, and you're like, is it go time? And they're like, oh, thank God you made the offer because I was scared to ask. And they buy quickly and they're often pay-in-full clients, fully committed, and they're like, tell me everything I need to get there fast. They've already bought. They just need to be invited to make the transaction.


The Power of Real Conversation Over Automation

Scott Raven: You know, I want to dovetail this into this emphasis that you have in terms of the importance of conversation, particularly in today's hyper-modern world. AI everywhere. Everyone is selling ClickFunnels and complex tech and all of these very automated solutions, if you will. But you are the biggest proponent in terms of the simple conversation is the most effective to get the sale. And I'd love for you to expound upon this thought.

Christine Campbell Rapin: So we've all survived the pandemic. During the pandemic, we had to feed ourselves. We had to entertain ourselves. We had to self-study ourselves, and we went in like a grenade, cannonball into the deep end. And we loved it for a minute until we realized we were drowning.

And the challenge that I see now is that people are clear—I've tried that automated route. A lot of people have a course that they started but never completed. So when you're thinking now I want to like engage with somebody and it's going to be fully automated, I'm just going to avoid the work and avoid the hard conversations, you're not positioning yourself to succeed in this market, even though it's a possibility.

I think when you are able to see somebody, there's nothing more powerful. And the easiest way to see somebody and let them feel seen in that spin is presence. I think, and we've made a very clear choice, and all of my clients choose this or I wouldn't be their mentor: you are craftsmen. I'm like, I am here to help you think, because the thing that you buy when you hire us in any of our programs is consistent client growth. I'm going to teach you the systems, model, and structure to be repeatable, but the magic is I'm going to help you think.

I'm going to help you know, from the billion dollars and 400 clients, what questions to ask. I'm going to help you find your own way in a messy human way, and I'm going to keep you eyeball to eyeball moving. And that's rare, and that's why people pay for it. And so in the world right now, we make far too many assumptions with ease. And people have really good antennas around a disingenuous connection.

Scott Raven: Yes. I hate them. It's got to be authentic or else you ain't worth my time. I absolutely agree. But I will say that there is a flip side and probably a misperception amongst founders that when we talk systems—I'm a huge proponent of systems. I'm a huge proponent of being in flow with the processes and the procedures that founders in particular say, but I wanted this business to be able to run without me. I don't want to have to have 60, 70, 80 hours a week in order to be successful. That's why I want automation. You would be one of the first to say it doesn't have to be that way if you do it right.

Christine Campbell Rapin: Well, and I think it's about the sequence, and this is the challenge—that you want the lived experience of not being tied to your business before you built the business. And I'm telling you, I don't know any way that that happens. So what I really believe is the fastest way to fail forward is conversation.

The fastest way to iterate is without the complicated tech. If you can start to figure out this with biological feedback, the most immediate route available—what's working, what's not—if you have enough exposure to that, then is the time to systematize it and to think about repeatable patterns and to bring in automations.

But the challenge I watch with every entrepreneur is they are building before they have enough knowledge. And so it just is expensive and it's disjointed, and they're taking recommendations without somebody even helping them understand how it applies to their business. Like people who buy big, expensive sales forces or CRMs—like I love a CRM, but start with a spreadsheet. When we get up and running and we know who's in the slow lane, who's in the middle lane, who's in the fast lane, and we think, okay, now we need to track who did we meet this week? What's our next step? We can then add systems, but we're also creating revenue by then, and it makes sense to know what to invest.

I think one of the reasons, and I never realized it when I started my business—when people kept coming to me and asking me for coffee or cups of wine, depending on how you know me, it was because I kept saying, you've got the knowledge, but you're out of sequence. You're three stages before you're ready.

Like I watch people building websites before they've had a client. I'm watching people build and buy expensive tech tools because they're like, well, that's what the gurus use. I'm like, simplify. Simplify, simplify. Figure out what's working, and then think with somebody who's a little further ahead of you—what was the first step?

Because you can go from free when you start to an investment, but it's justified because there's revenue and the complexity that you need to support. I think half the time it is that you have the cart before the horse, and that's because you've been gamed and you've been sold.


Five Foundations and Getting Out of Sequence

Scott Raven: So why do we let people game us that way? And you know, it's one of the things that as I've been going through my journey, and you know, I've reached a point where I know who I am, I know what I'm solving, I know what I'm trying to drive, but it wasn't always that way. And I was one of those quote-unquote victims. I don't call myself victim in any way—got it, got it, got it. But I bought from somebody who was selling something that was like, ah, this is what I need. And you're here to say, oh, you have everything you need right now. You just need to do the reps. Fail cheap, fail fast, and learn quickly.

Christine Campbell Rapin: Well, and I think that that's where it comes into—there's five foundations every business on the planet has. And I don't care what business, what level, solopreneur, freelancer to the fifth largest company on the planet—there's just structures. And so success leaves clues. Pay attention. And most people never thought about it.

And this is like my own framework, but I'm like, these are the five steps everybody has to go through, everybody. The challenge is, why do we get sold? It comes from a good place, we hope, for a fast path because we want the lived experience without actually recognizing what's involved. Because all of the highlight reels told us you could work four hours and get paid a ridiculous amount of money. And yet, let's be clear, less than 2% of people are million-dollar business owners.

Scott Raven: I agree. I agree.

Christine Campbell Rapin: Ignore the noise, so just—

Scott Raven: Right. And just for the listening audience, five foundations, if I understand it correctly: know, move, make, lead, and scale—however you want to phrase it. But that is the progression, if you will.


Five Foundations and the Sequence Problem

Christine Campbell Rapin: And I always say you've got to know who the buyer is. I mean, most people don't know who their buyer is, and that's part of the problem. Second thing, you've got to be able to move somebody from curious to paid client—conversations the fastest way. Third thing is what makes you the must-hire? We've talked a little bit about that, and you need to remember that this has to be seen in the eye of the buyer.

Then you do have to lead yourself first to do the things that are required. You have to lead your clients to get the results, and they're going to be, you know, in circles astray and needing support. So prepare for that. You're adding complexity of team, contractors, referral partners. I mean, you have to lead them too.

And the fifth thing I say is actually business math. You've got to be very clear that one conversation can lead to one client, but there is also, to your point, reps that need to be done and strategic decision-making to ensure that the right wins are being tracked and aspired to.

And I think sometimes why do we get gamed? There are opportunistic people out there, and I think the challenge is if we don't know better, we get gamed. But once we know better, we learn. And sometimes I just call that I paid the ignorance tax—like I've paid it. So just, we're clear. Five years into my business, I made an investment. I've spent $6,000 on it so far this year, and I believe in the idea or I wouldn't have made the investment. But I'm absolutely on the fence of, I think this is perfect three years from now. So do I want to bleed three more years of money, or walk away knowing when I step in, I'm going to have to step in probably for a bigger dollar?

But I'm also cognizant—I'm out of sequence. But I have two degrees in business and lots of business experience. That's why people want to work with us, because they're like, can I just borrow some of your knowledge? Because you'll make your own mistakes. You try not to make the ones I made like me.

Scott Raven: Well, I mean, you know, that I think is beautiful in terms of what you try to purvey in terms of wisdom, particularly with your Client Waterfall methodology, right? In terms of, here are the ways I've learned, both in terms of what succeeded and what has failed. But I think there's two very relevant pieces of wisdom there, which is, number one, you may have made a decision at a time where you didn't know what you didn't know, and you get a little bit further, you know a little bit more, and you're able to reflect in terms of this really should have been a not right now, and move it down the road. That's number one.

Christine Campbell Rapin: Park it.

Scott Raven: It's still a great idea.

Christine Campbell Rapin: Not the time. Great idea, not the time.

Scott Raven: Just say not. It's just say not right now. Right. But number two is we're talking about your methodology and the consistent growth that you teach, right? It's not some, you know, magic bullet that you know was suddenly—you get this and everything turns into unicorns. No. There's work and there are learnings, self-learnings that go into this along the way for the people that you work with.


The Client Waterfall: Solving One Problem at a Time

Christine Campbell Rapin: A big part of going back to the win—you have to win. And the problem you need to think about is what problem is the next win I need? And so when we talk about the waterfall effect, it's like everyone says to me, you know, if I just knew what to say, I would have clients. And that's a marketing conversation. And I'm like, there's truth to knowing what to say and marketing well to pull the right audience, to attract the right people, to really know and recognize that pattern—like that's a buyer conversation.

That's awesome. But just because you have a lead, a prospect doesn't mean you have a business. You don't have a sale yet. So I said, sure, we'll solve the marketing problem, but then it's going to create a sales problem, which is now you have to do something with the person who says, hi, I need help.

And most people go, well, I just don't want to sell. And I'm like, this is serving somebody who says I need help with expertise you have. You have already paid for time, money, skin, knees, grenades, and all of it. You're allowed to sell. And then so now you have leads figured out and you've had selling at least a success story. Now the question is, by what? A business I have to create—this has to be more than one. It has to not be a fluke. And that's when it becomes an operational idea of how do I create a pattern that repeats?

And so in the waterfall effect, we talk about you have to solve one problem at a time. And I'm always fascinated when clients say to me, I hired you for X. It's based on their viewpoint of their current crisis. Because I've had clients come to me saying, I hired her for marketing. And I'm like, I find that fascinating. And I have other clients that said, I hired you because you're going to help me sell better. And I'm like, well, there's truth in that too.

And then I have clients that have been with me for a period of time where we're working that slow, middle, fast lane in every conversation. And they're like, I actually understand how to be a business owner and I understand the systems that support it. That's what happens. I'm like, all of those are true. We solve them.

Scott Raven: There you go. There you go. But I would assume a lot of that is the perception that people bring in and how that perception changes over time if they allowed their mind to be flexible and not rigid in some of the dies that they've already cast.

Christine Campbell Rapin: Because we're building muscles. Like myself included, I didn't start my first day in business with all the answers to the point. I didn't know what questions not to ask, but I was far enough to know I had my own limits because I was good at this first inch. And I hired my first mentor when I had one client, and I paid her for four years.

And the thing was like, I had a lot of business experience. I had a lot of know-how in a corporate place where I didn't carry all the weights every day with all the hats. And I said, if I kept on this path at the rate I was going by myself, I'd be unrecognizable in five years. Because I was so much in the slow lane and I thought that's unfair to my family. I was engaged to be married at the time. I was having bonus children come into my life and a dog, and we were building houses, and we have aging parents. I'm like, I want the lived experience of the entrepreneur dream. I have to create it, but can I crunch time?

And I can crunch time by having somebody else say, do this now. And here's the funny thing about this, because it's become a fun conversation: we're teenagers. We hate being told what to do.

Scott Raven: Oh yes. Trust me, I got a 14-year-old and he hates being told what to do right now, so I feel that.

Christine Campbell Rapin: But as an adult who's emerging, you paid for it, so ask for it. And I was so surprised—one of our most popular programs we built in response to solving a need before they would really benefit from our services. I tell people exactly what to do for three minutes a day—go do this. And they're like, this is so much easier when I know what to do. Because they don't know what questions to ask, and they're like, if I just execute what you told me—they're always so surprised. But they're like, it works. And I'm like, yep.

Scott Raven: Yeah, I'm thinking as you say that to the standard situational leadership model. If somebody is unable and unwilling for whatever reason to do something, then the way to get it done is to just tell them, right? And so, you know, the fact that you're saying, look, I tell people what to do because I know that they're unable and unwilling to do it, but when they do it, they're like, thank you.

Christine Campbell Rapin: There it is. Honestly, it takes so much stress out of their world because, and again, different levels of clients will get different levels of direction. But I'm a mentor, so I'm very clear—I will tell you my opinion. I will have one guaranteed. But in the early days, like the baby entrepreneurs that we support, they're like, just tell me what to do.

And I'm like, I am the barometer and the guardrails for stay in your lane and go this way because we're building your muscles and your certainty—your lived experience. And as clients evolve, I said, you know, now it's finding your way and the stylized bits of it that makes sense. Like what pieces feel like oxygen for you and how do we sustain that oxygen for the long term?

And how do we make sure the money supports whatever you want and the client volumes and the systems, all of it? And at that point, there's a little less telling what to do, but because clients have built that pattern, you know when the sky is falling and they're like, I'm in a negotiation with a potential new hire, or I'm in a negotiation with somebody I don't want as a client, or there's some kind of conflict, they're coming to me saying, help me figure out what to do here. I'm like, well, here's some options. What feels like the right thing to do? We role-play it. And then they're like—I'm like, your decision, your business, you do you, boo. But we created space.


Building Community and Breaking Loneliness

And we don't realize how much we miss it until you've created it and you're like, this is actually making this whole journey feel less lonely because it's a lonely journey. I think there's a lot of shade with entrepreneurship being lonely. I'm like, it's lonely because you're choosing it to be lonely. I hire mentors. I spend $50,000 a year on it, and there are two people who basically tell me this: go do the work. Don't complain about getting the results if you're not doing the work.

And number two, you're much too smart to be this dumb. And like I pay them for that. And I write the check happily because I need the course correction because we all do have our blind spots, and we also have to be reminded—if it's up to be, it's up to me. Because I am the CEO of my business, and sometimes myself as an employee needs to be fired.

Scott Raven: I agree. I agree. Or you need to put that classic eliminate, delegate, automate in terms of what do I got on my plate that I really shouldn't be doing? And why am I doing it?

Christine Campbell Rapin: That supports where I want to go, not where I am. And somebody said this—I saw it on my social platforms yesterday. I thought it was awesome. It's like you are waiting to be ready, thinking that ready is a feeling. Ready is a decision.

Scott Raven: Yes.

Christine Campbell Rapin: So I go back to where we started the story, which is, I know I'm really good at this—play in that lane. So I make decisions thinking how do I stay in my lane? How do I not deviate from my lane? How do I be clear? I could learn it, but delegate it. And I always also quarterly check in with myself—does that lane still feel like oxygen? Because if it is not sustaining oxygen for me, I have a problem because I have to be the fuel source for my business. I'm the spark, I'm the origin, I'm the get-up-and-go. And I'm also reminding myself, reward yourself because you carry that responsibility. And if I don't and I need a course correction, I put on my CEO hat and say, check in with yourself. And so that measure of winning changes.


Legacy: Creating Tables for Real Conversations

Scott Raven: Yes, yes. Now you're not only the fuel source for your business, you are also the fuel source for the community that you've been building, the podcast that you have. What's your broader vision? Right, we always, you know, on The Corvus Effect, talk about define what legacy means to you, and then pursue it wholeheartedly. What would that legacy be for you that you are driving to each and every day?

Christine Campbell Rapin: It all comes back to having the right conversations and relationships. And when I first started my business, I said I didn't set out to build the business I have. That never even occurred to me like that. You're going to hear that. Like seriously, nothing could be further from the truth that I thought I'd built a consulting business helping people build businesses. I just wanted to be a great boss for myself, like selfish. That was my goal. But—

Scott Raven: Nothing wrong with being selfish of number one sometimes.

Christine Campbell Rapin: All the time actually. And you get to go after what you want as an entrepreneur. Be clear. But the thing I really realized—I thought the wrong conversations were happening because I was watching people get gamed and I was watching people buy into and waste money and watch their dreams go up in flames. And when I was being asked to coach or mentor, and I went to a friend of mine and he said, pay attention. You've got more skills and expertise than most people who play in this field. I know you've had some amazing success stories. I also still see the scars and the knives in the back that you carry. It serves a purpose, and you're being asked to sit at this table. Pull up a chair and build your table.

And so the bigger story for me was create the table where real lived experience is being passed hand to hand and together at the same table. And that meant creating platforms. It also means I have a responsibility. I believe that because I have a great network and because I've been through every job function and been successful at it, I want to build the resources so that if I can help you pull the through line—when you need a great SEO expert or you need a great lawyer, or you need a great accountant—I will pull from a vetted stable of contacts. And that was the origin of the podcast.

The podcast was to give straight talk, real actionable episodes, and to build and to vet people who were tactical experts on marketing where I could integrate the tactic with the strategy and my clients could hire. It was always about clients. I mean, yes, people now binge content and say, I've been watching your podcast, and when people come to me or when I'm running programming, I'm like, here's the five episodes you need based on where you are. Go add those to your pods for the week.

The point was always we have to walk together, and I think we need to do it human to human. So everything that we're building is about standing in ownership of it.

Scott Raven: Well, when you stand in your ownership, and particularly the way that you have used vehicles like the podcast to amplify the value that you can deliver because it's not just about you—it is the tribe that you have built around you such that you are a one-stop shop for a lot of different things, even though you are not the one who is delivering it.

And for a lot of founders who get into this trap in terms of this all sounds great, but I am in 100% delivery mode. What's your message to them if they feel that way?

Christine Campbell Rapin: My question is, do you want to stay there? Because you have a problem doesn't mean you want to solve it. If somebody's in full delivery mode, you say, do you love it? Does it feel like oxygen? Stay there because you're happy and it's fulfilling the oxygen. But if it's, this is losing its appetite, I don't on aggregate feel positive that it's a good trade—my question is, do you want to solve this? And then decide to solve it because it is a solvable problem.

Like it's probably the most irritating thing I think my friends would say about me is like, I really believe everything has a solvable problem. If I don't know the answer, it doesn't mean there isn't an answer. It means there is one to be discovered.

Scott Raven: Right.

Christine Campbell Rapin: And so when we talk about the journey, I knew going in because I'd been the outlier in every role I'd ever had corporately. I was the first woman, the only girl and the only Caucasian in a team of 40 tech people. I was like a fish out of water. Even in my first job at a university—

I knew that I didn't need community to the same degree that most people do. I don't have a network. Like I didn't build my business because I had a supportive partner. I was building it whether they were supportive or not. I'm very fortunate to have a supportive partner, but I've watched so many people build a business where everybody around them doesn't believe in them. And I said, you need a community, you need a mentor. You need people who see your vision because all I do is take you at face value because today you showed up in the middle lane.

And I think there's a lot of freedom in that. And there's a lot of put down your own story because the coolest thing of entrepreneurship is your business is built on strangers. The people who will see your vision first are not the people you expect, but I guarantee you there is one who will say it's go time. Here's a resource, here's a connection.

And I think we are looking at our business as the evolving ecosystem because I want people to win. I think small business saves communities. It is the best role model I have, you know, for those in your family environment. If you're building a life you love, if you're taking your family along the ride and that is clear about why you're doing it for you, I think the ripples are just awesome.

When you talk about that with my kids, I said, you know, I want you to see us winning. I want you to see us preparing. I want you to see the work we're doing. And I said, I get this business isn't for George. I said that to my husband like, because he called me out during COVID one day. He was listening to me on a call. I was building this business because I have aging parents and I have a husband who doesn't have great health. And I'm like, we need to play now because I can't guarantee I'll play at 80.

And he's like, that's true. It's—excuse me, our language there—he is like, you are doing this because you need to. And five years from now, the vision is awesome. We love where we intersect with it, but you're doing it because you're compelled to, not because you're compelled on behalf of us. And so there's a real big freedom here. It's who would you be if you go after what you want?


Final Thoughts

Scott Raven: That's right. That's right. Yeah. It's a beautiful segue as we do our traditional close on these episodes. I always give a nod to Randy Pausch's book, The Last Lecture, beautiful soliloquy where his final words were, this was written for my kids. So, well, your bonus daughters, they have now listened to this episode in its entirety. You already kind of answered what do you want them to take away from this, but you mentioned the word compelled. What do you hope for them? Not what they will be compelled to do, but how they will know they are being compelled to do what they're meant to do?

Christine Campbell Rapin: I think the thing I want, including my bonus children and people that I have intimate relationships with, is I want you to know that you can pursue what you want and that you get to decide the levels of what's worth it and what it looks like. And you know, neither one of my daughters are business-minded in the sense that they would pursue entrepreneurship at this stage of life. Who knows?

But what's interesting is I got a phone call. My youngest daughter—she never phones seriously ever, doesn't even respond to text ever.

Scott Raven: I think it's a generational thing.

Christine Campbell Rapin: Exactly. If you don't care for people, people won't care back for you. But she phoned me one day. This was about three years ago. She like got called into her office. She worked at that time in a community daycare and she was going to school. And she said, I got asked if Hugh and I were related because we share Rapin as the name. And she said, yes, that's my dad's wife, that's my stepmom. And she's like, I follow her on social media. Your mom's incredible. I love what she's doing. She's showing young women all kinds of possibility, and I just think it's super awesome that you have this role model in your life.

And she's like, I was blown out of the water and I wanted to phone you to tell you this story. And I said, thank you. That's the whole lurker thing. They're working the journey with me. They also go, oh, if you're going to Vegas, can we stay in the hotel? Like, do we get to come? And I'm like, sure, you're going to be—we can find ways. If you want to be in the business, you can be in the business, but you've got to work in the business.

But it was fun to watch this lurker moment of I want you to go after what you want. I want you to know that there will be setbacks. My kids are really clear—they watch me take my lumps. And they go, I don't know who that is, but it sounds really awesome. And they're like, I've told my friends that you're doing that, and everybody freaking knows who that is. You are really doing things.

And I said, I want you to have a life that you pursue. I want you to recognize what's worth it for you. And that's the compelled piece. But I want to get—if I gift you anything at the end of your life—I hope you go, I feel vibrant. Because I pursued this. You know, when you come from corporate and you did come as an escapee, you truncate your emotions, you justify, and you live in mediocrity and it's like, it's good enough. And I'm like, life is meant to be hugely vibrant. And that does mean that there's really high highs, and it does mean I'm also really sure I'm going to stand on another grenade and blow myself up.

Scott Raven: That's right.

Christine Campbell Rapin: But I trust myself.

Scott Raven: But you did it your way.

Christine Campbell Rapin: And I think that that's what matters. Their legacy will be, did I show up present? Do I love the life I created? And do I recognize that life can evolve? Because I say to my kids, just to be clear, where we can create—what we can create now is 50 years in the making of getting here. We had jobs in our corporate careers. We had jobs that were great. We had bosses that were great. We had bosses that were complete and utter—oh my God, that's not even legal stuff happens.

Scott Raven: Check, check, check, check. Okay. Yep.

Christine Campbell Rapin: We're qualified to serve because of it. And we didn't take the shortcut. We took it day by day. We took it win by win, and sometimes the win was getting off the floor.

Scott Raven: Agreed. For those who are compelled to learn more about you while wanting to engage with you, how can they find out more about you, Christine?

Christine Campbell Rapin: This is where it's—guys, please pay attention. Super simple. My name is Christine Campbell Rapin. Rapin is spelled R-A-P-I-N. Come find me, Christine Campbell Rapin on every social platform. My website, ChristineCampbellRapin.com. If you can find and remember my name, I'm certain that we can connect.

Scott Raven: Yep. And we will make sure that all of that is in the episode links. And you have a free ebook, if I understand it correctly, 25 Ways to Find Your Next Client, Predictably. Is that right?

Christine Campbell Rapin: And this is the thing every business owner says—it'd be so much easier if I could just find clients. You know, this is the mystery that every business owner has to solve. The sooner you learn to solve this, the better. And it is a solvable problem. I will tell you these 25 ways right now are working. They're working for me, they're working for my clients. So this is a trusted formula. But I want you to say—when you look at this, it'll also be a recap of our conversation about slow, middle, fast lanes and what's a buyer so you know who you're talking to. But pick your lane. I don't want you doing all 25 things.

I want you to see that there's a plethora of ways to play—find a way that feels like I could sustain this. Because in it, when it comes to business ownership, it's a compound game. It's micro wins. One step, one step, one step. But pick a lane and commit to I will get better. Because it's not the smartest who win in this game—it's those that pick a lane, be disciplined, go after it, and say I'll take my lumps, but do it. And this is the way to do it. Grab the free resource. Read it, study it, use it. Pick your lane, and then tell me, drop me a note and say, I'm getting great at this. It's really messy, like awesome.

Scott Raven: Yep. And I hope that you get lots of folks who say, hey, I listened to your episode on The Corvus Effect and I took the leap and here's what happened. So, yeah. You know, this has been an honor to have you on the show. Any final words before we close out this episode?

Christine Campbell Rapin: I say it's go time. You know, everyone talks about the 1%, and I just referenced compound interest in what I said, but nobody really tells you how to get to 1%. And I've realized really recently, I'm like, everyone's talking about the 1%. We all buy into it. We all see it. But here's my final comment—to get to the 1% is so simple. It's a commitment to get off zero every day. One thing.

Scott Raven: There you go. There you go. And let's hope that everybody takes that as the charge to say, what am I going to do today to get off zero? So this has been awesome, Christine. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Really appreciate you.

Christine Campbell Rapin: Thanks, Scott.

Scott Raven: To my listening audience, hey, thank you guys for spending the time and your presence in listening to this. Take this wisdom and put it into action. That is your charge for today. As always, we encourage you to subscribe and comment so that we can make these episodes better. If you know somebody in your life who needs this wisdom, make sure you share this episode so that we can proliferate the good from these very, very knowledgeable guests.

Until next time, I'm Scott. We'll see you on The Corvus Effect. Take care.


Outro

Scott Raven: Thank you for joining me on The Corvus Effect. If today's conversation sparked ideas about how to free yourself from overwhelm, visit TheCorvusEffect.com for show notes, resources, and our free Sixth Dimensions Assessment, showing you exactly where you're trapped and how to architect your freedom. While you're there, check out the Corvus Learning Platform, where we turn insights into implementation. If this episode helped you see a new path forward, please subscribe and share it with others who are ready to pursue their definition of professional freedom. Join me next time as we continue exploring how to enhance your life through what you do professionally. It's time to make that your reality!