Ep. 84: The Heart of Transition: Life-Saving Lessons in Leadership with Jeff Parnell

Episode Links:

LinkedIn: Jeff Parnell - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffparnell/

Website: The Heart of Transition (Book - Release: Early 2026) - https://theheartoftransition.com

Summary:

In this episode of The Corvus Effect, I speak with Jeff Parnell, a fractional interim CEO who brings 30 years of operational leadership to businesses facing critical transitions. After a 2018 heart transplant, Jeff uses the experience as a metaphor for business transformation in his upcoming book, The Heart of Transition. He shares how his trial by fire at Overton's taught him that numbers matter over style, addresses the silver tsunami of aging business owners trapped in their companies, and explains why execution beats beautiful consulting reports. Through stories of his transplant surgeon's confidence and a coffee company owner's bold transparency, Jeff illustrates why legacy means building something that serves your life rather than consuming it.

Show Notes:

00:32 Guest Introduction: Jeff Parnell

01:56 Owning It: Trial by Fire at Overton's

03:54 The Michael Jordan Philosophy

05:14 Adapting Leadership Across Different Cultures

06:25 Avoiding Burnout and Staying Grounded

07:45 The 2018 Heart Transplant Journey

09:51 The Hospital Game Face

12:30 Second Chances and Gratitude

13:15 The Silver Tsunami: Trapped Business Owners

15:02 What Happens If You're Hospitalized for 90 Days?

16:43 Beautiful Notebooks, Zero Execution

18:25 The Coffee Company Success Story

20:56 Pride: The Biggest Obstacle

22:47 Vulnerability and Creating Safe Spaces

23:44 The Transplant Surgeon's Confidence

25:15 KPIs and the Heart of Transition Metaphor

26:40 Faith During Crisis

29:46 Legacy: Building What Lives Beyond You

32:07 It's Not Too Late

33:25 Be Bold But Not Reckless

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 0:32 Guest Introduction: Jeff Parnell
• 1:56 Owning It: Trial by Fire at Overton's
• 3:54 The Michael Jordan Philosophy
• 5:14 Adapting Leadership Across Different Cultures
• 6:25 Avoiding Burnout and Staying Grounded
• 7:45 The 2018 Heart Transplant Journey
• 9:51 The Hospital Game Face
• 12:30 Second Chances and Gratitude
• 13:15 The Silver Tsunami: Trapped Business Owners
• 15:02 What Happens If You're Hospitalized for 90 Days?
• 16:43 Beautiful Notebooks, Zero Execution
• 18:25 The Coffee Company Success Story
• 20:56 Pride: The Biggest Obstacle
• 22:47 Vulnerability and Creating Safe Spaces
• 23:44 The Transplant Surgeon's Confidence
• 25:15 KPIs and the Heart of Transition Metaphor
• 26:40 Faith During Crisis
• 29:46 Legacy: Building What Lives Beyond You
• 32:07 It's Not Too Late
• 33:25 Be Bold But Not Reckless
• 35:01 Outro

Transcript

Intro

Scott Raven: Welcome to The Corvus Effect, where we explore what it takes to succeed professionally and truly enhance all parts of your life. I'm Scott Raven, Fractional COO and your host. Each episode we go behind the scenes with leaders who've mastered the delicate harmony of growing their professional endeavors while protecting what matters most. Ready to transform from Chief Everything Officer to achieving integration in all facets of your life? Let's soar!

Guest Introduction: Jeff Parnell

Scott Raven: And hello everyone. Welcome back to The Corvus Effect. I'm Scott. Today I am joined by Jeff Parnell, a fractional and interim CEO who brings 30 years of operational leadership to businesses facing their most critical transitions. He has taken companies from zero to a hundred million dollars in revenue, delivering three to four times revenue growth, and guiding multiple businesses through successful exits. But what makes Jeff's approach unique is what happened to him in 2018. A life-saving heart transplant gave him a second chance and crystallized his mission to help business owners transition on their terms before it's too late.

He has just closed two successful business exits in under 90 days just this year, and he is currently authoring the book, The Heart of Transition, scheduled for release in early 2026 with a forward written by his Cleveland Clinic transplant surgeon. So Jeff, welcome to the podcast, man.

Jeff Parnell: Hey great to be here, Scott. Thanks for the opportunity.

Scott Raven: You know what? The pleasure is ours. I'll put it that way, and we will talk about that life altering moment in 2018 soon enough.

Owning It: Trial by Fire at Overton's

Scott Raven: But I'm going to go back 30 years in time. I'm going to go back to 1988. First job at Overton's, where your only job description was make the numbers work. Trial by fire back then, but what did that teach you that still drives your work today?

Jeff Parnell: I think the concept I would go back to Scott is owning it. The owner of this company, Overton's, fantastic visionary, a driver, super passionate, off the charts passion. He was all about results. The other stuff, the prettiness, the semantics, the narrative didn't really matter as much. Numbers needed to work and it was trial by fire. Looking back, it was the best single opportunity I could have ever been given because I was held accountable for everything that had a number associated with it that didn't go to the CFO of the company.

Scott Raven: There you go. You know, particularly in today's day and age where it feels like there is a lot more focus on style versus substance, right? How is it for you to be able to take what I'll call an old school approach in terms of the substance matters to the way that you work with people?

Jeff Parnell: Well that's the beauty of direct marketing, and at that time it was catalog. We launched a website in 96, so I've been in e-commerce really since 96 as well. But it's all about the measurement of everything you do. And granted, some things you can't measure 100%. But you also need to innovate. So you've got to use both sides of the brain. And when you've been in direct marketing for X number of years, it's ingrained. You can't forget it. So you walk into businesses that aren't measuring a lot of things, some that aren't as measurable in terms of sales activity where it takes six months to close the sale, but you find metrics to put around it that track progress and success most importantly.

Scott Raven: Excellent. Now, part of that is your follow-up philosophy.

The Michael Jordan Philosophy

Scott Raven: I love how you've integrated the Michael Jordan approach in terms of take the shot but get the rebound as well. What is it about follow-up that you feel maybe lacking in today's world in terms of how you hold yourself accountable to those numbers over time?

Jeff Parnell: Well, we get discouraged with a lot of things going on in our world today in business and in life. And yet you have to get up. And of course, Michael Jordan's known for making a number of comments about the number of last minute shots he missed, about you don't make the shots you don't take. A lot of those kinds of analogies. I grew up in Eastern North Carolina, so basketball's king down there. And you learn this stuff. It becomes part of your DNA and you develop a thick skin. I grew up in a very rural part of the state where you were always fighting, scrapping for what you got, and you realize the world wasn't going to hand you anything. And I confess, people say, wow, he's really old school when his favorite movie series is Rocky.

Scott Raven: There you go. There you go. Well, you know, that makes the Philly part of me very proud. I'll put it that way. I remember when LeBron came back to the Cavaliers a second time, and he said, in northeast Ohio, nothing is given, respect is earned. So those philosophies in terms of hard work and teamwork, making the dream work. You've taken this across those 30 years that we talked about, right?

Adapting Leadership Across Different Cultures

Scott Raven: Originally starting as you said, within the marketing realm, the direct marketing realm, but ultimately evolving yourself into being the CEO, what were some of the things that you had to adapt, adjust, and grow about yourself along the way?

Jeff Parnell: I think the first thing that was most important is understanding the uniquenesses of people in terms of their style and their work ethic. I grew up in an area and spent, again, those 10 years at Overton's in a setting where it was hard work to the hilt. And when I moved to other parts of the country, it's not that people didn't work hard or didn't care, but it was different and you had to learn to appeal to the different styles. The people who've been in one setting their entire life don't get that opportunity. That was probably the biggest takeaway and the fact that you can never assume they've understood the message until you've gone back and forth several times.

Scott Raven: Absolutely. Now, a good number of people who listen to this podcast are entrepreneurs themselves and constantly struggle in terms of what they wish to pursue in life versus the avoidance of burnout. It's suggested that one in five entrepreneurs works 80 hour weeks or more.

Avoiding Burnout and Staying Grounded

Scott Raven: What from your experience have you learned in terms of working hard, but also not putting yourself in a position to get burnt out?

Jeff Parnell: Yeah. And you know, to be honest with you, I've struggled with that in my life quite a bit. Again, you referenced what happened eight years ago, that's helped a great deal. But I'm a worker. I've always believed in it, and it starts from growing up when I didn't make the basketball team in ninth grade and I was determined I wasn't going to get cut again and I wasn't. I had a certain amount of ability, but I wasn't a God gifted Michael Jordan athlete. I had to work my tail off to get a spot on the roster. And you don't forget that. My son once asked me, dad, do you feel like you wasted your time because you decided when you got to college not to pursue it? I said, absolutely not. That's tenacity and drive, and it has stayed with me.

So back to the whole burnout thing, it's difficult. It's been difficult for me. I try to stay grounded. My wife is amazing. She has kept me grounded. She reminds me of the bigger picture of life, not just business. And my faith is very strong. I mean, I wake up and I spend time there every morning, really refreshing and rejuvenating. Some days I'm not going to kid you, it's not a fairytale. Some days are tougher than others, but you keep moving forward.

Scott Raven: You keep moving forward. So I want to talk to the heart of transition, which is your look back at this. But before we get there,

The 2018 Heart Transplant Journey

Scott Raven: we do have to talk about the similar moment in 2018 where you did have your transplant. And I'm sure I could spend the entire episode talking about this, but there's so much to take. Let's try to sum it up in a nutshell for the folks who are listening to this, and I really want to focus on your mental and emotional state during this time period.

Jeff Parnell: Great. Yeah, so my situation was Cleveland Clinic ran a battery of tests, every test known to man. And the only thing they could come up with is I had a weakening heart. I didn't have blood pressure issues. I didn't have blockage. They tried everything. It was a battery that was on its last legs. And after having a checkup in December of 17, I called my cardiologist for the next month and said, I'm not feeling well. Something's not right. I've got to come back in. And I was feeling really weak, really run down, running a business. I gave my all to that business during the day, but at night, I'd crash. Okay, the dirty little secret. But when I went back they said, you're going to be here a while, and I didn't know what that meant.

Next thing you know, we're really talking seriously about a transplant. So it was trial by fire every day. A lot of pain, physical pain, some mental pain. I was in and out of ICU, and didn't know the outcome because when you're on a transplant list, and let me tell you, Scott, my gratitude couldn't be higher because I got the gift of a new heart. Some people don't.

Scott Raven: I was about to say, just because you're on the list doesn't mean you get matched.

Jeff Parnell: You do not. Whether it's kidney, heart, liver, whatever it might be. So I never felt I wouldn't get my heart, but believe me, it was trying physically. So you know, what really helped me mentally was my faith, my wife, and the fact that I was running a business at the time called FishUSA and that kept me focused on something other than lousy daytime TV in the hospital.

Scott Raven: Understood. Right. But you know, we talk so much in this Corvus Effect about masks and blind spots and how there is an unfortunate distortion of the truth in some cases, right?

The Hospital Game Face

Scott Raven: I can imagine that as you are going through this waiting process, but still having put the brave face on as the professional leader of your company, right, that there were times where you were saying, I am two different people living in the same body, or I just can't do this anymore in terms of quote unquote lying about who I am right now.

Jeff Parnell: That's a very interesting way of putting it. And I thought about that whole aspect when you're not at your best and yet you have to look a certain way, present a certain way, no question about that. And you put your game face on as the saying goes. It was challenging. I'm not going to kid you. There were times after calls when I'd wrap it up and I'd say, wow, that was tough. I hope I demonstrated my energy, my intellect, all of those kinds of things. But it was tough and it was an ongoing fight every day. And physically I was tired. You don't sleep well in hospitals. They're coming in at three in the morning to take vitals and take blood. So it's not a restful experience and you're going on nothing but fumes and adrenaline.

Scott Raven: Right. So we fast forward, right? You find out that there is a match. On the one hand, I could assume elation.

Jeff Parnell: Yep.

Scott Raven: On the other hand, I assume nervousness because now we have a very significant surgery that's coming up, right?

Jeff Parnell: Well, you know, you'd think that, but what's interesting, and I'm not even, I'm the guy that doesn't like to have blood work done, okay? I'm going to be very clear on that. But when I got my call on a Saturday afternoon in February, I was at Cleveland Clinic a total of five weeks. I was in my hospital room. You've got a heart coming in. I was elated. I was relieved and I couldn't wait to get it done. There was, and I'm telling you, my wife will say the same thing, neither she nor I were nervous. We really felt God had this thing. We felt this was our destination. It was relief, excitement, elation.

People say, well, how'd you sleep the night before? I said, lousy. They said, yeah, you must've been really wired. I said, yeah, I was. I kept thinking, when's 10 o'clock going to come so they can wheel me in? And as it turned out, they didn't take me in on that Sunday morning until like 1:00 or 1:30. So I couldn't wait to go. I couldn't wait to get this behind me. It had been a tough journey physically, mentally, and in every aspect. And I was ready to go to the next chapter. I really, really was.

Scott Raven: So, before we start talking about your book, let's talk about the immediate aftermath of surgery, right? Everything is successful, right? You're past the first couple of days in terms of is this going to work? And now you get to reflect in terms of,

Second Chances and Gratitude

Scott Raven: the universe has done this for me, so what is my next chapter going to be that's unique from everything that I'm already doing? What was that thought process like?

Jeff Parnell: That's a fantastic question because it really, and this is an overused phrase to some people, it's not to me, gratitude. I was very grateful I got a heart. Then it started sinking in that someone else had a loss, Scott, and you don't always think about that immediately. Some people think about it even going in. When I came out, I started thinking about that aspect of it. So as I reflected on the next chapter, I said, you know what? I've got a second chance, Jeff. Don't waste it. Don't blow it. If there's some things you do differently, do them now.

Scott Raven: Yep. Absolutely.

The Silver Tsunami: Trapped Business Owners

Scott Raven: And I think this is a beautiful segue in terms of the book, The Heart of Transition, boldness, transparency, willingness to change, and specifically you are focusing on the founders and owners who are in their sixties and their seventies who are trapped in their business, but at the same time feel there's no way out. They should have started this years ago. And what's the point in terms of starting now, right?

Jeff Parnell: Yeah.

Scott Raven: What from your experience is driving you to be able to communicate, look, yeah, the tree should have been planted years ago, but the second best time is right now?

Jeff Parnell: Well, life is short, Scott. I know that as well as anyone. Now I also know that in some circumstances I wouldn't have made it. Now, what if, you know, I had a great team in place. I got fully supported when I was in the hospital by my company. And we didn't miss a beat. We had a strong group and I was able to stay active too, which didn't hurt. By the same token, a lot of people don't have the backup plan. They don't have it prepared. And I had an urgency, not trying to be dramatic in any way, shape or form, but we need to understand our days are limited, whether we're 28 or 78.

And with the silver tsunami being what it is, and these aging baby boomers, sixties, seventies, even eighties, now at a point where they want to live life, yet they're held hostage by their business. I want to be a message to say, you know what? It's not necessarily your fault. You didn't plan. It doesn't always have to take two or three years. I mean, there are cases when it does need to take time, but there are ways to remedy the situation sooner rather than later. And I want to help.

Scott Raven: There you go. You know, it's a very provocative question that you ask this silver tsunami, which obviously you have direct experience with this question.

What Happens If You're Hospitalized for 90 Days?

Scott Raven: What happens if you're in the hospital for 90 days, you know, with this aging demographic who by all accounts are doing everything they can in order to lead a healthy life, but stuff happens in life, right? You may have an extended stay.

Jeff Parnell: We're not being morbid about it, but it's just the reality of life and our chronology. And I did have a conversation with an owner last year and said, what would happen if you were in the hospital for that length of time? And he got very quiet, then the owner responded, can you help me sell the company? I need to sell it. And that wasn't what I had gone in to do, but that's the way it worked out. And it was a great exit for her and a new owner as well. So yeah, you've got to take life by the horns and be in control of it. But if you've waited till the midnight hour, it may not be too late.

Scott Raven: Yeah. You know, you were talking about offline in terms of another situation where you had a colleague that passed up a great offer in the eight figures and a decade lost, for lack of better term, just from fear of pulling the trigger around being able to understand this is the time to take bold action.

Jeff Parnell: Absolutely. And that business owner also was not yet comfortable with not being the main character in the play. And that comes into account quite a bit with owners and entrepreneurs. We're proud of what we do, right? But by the same token, there comes a time when you've got to look at the bigger picture, and that's easier said than done for many.

Scott Raven: Yeah. Now you're coming in with what I termed at the front, an execution focused approach, and one of the reasons why you are so passionate about this approach is

Beautiful Notebooks, Zero Execution

Scott Raven: you're tired of seeing very mature companies get destroyed by million dollar projects. Right? First off, why does that happen? Second off, why does that irritate you so much?

Jeff Parnell: Well, I was part of a project like that on the receiving end of a project, and it was a disaster. It was beautiful work, great slides, great reporting, beautiful notebooks. They're on a desk somewhere, probably, but zero execution. And I came from an operating background. I'm not a quote professional consultant. That's not who I am. I was an operator for more than 30 years. And to us it was always about did you make your numbers, not how pretty was it? And that's in my DNA and I saw it backfire.

Yet you go back to the issue of boldness. You mentioned sometimes people think it's safe to get that great study to put on the shelf and it's essentially a little bit of a ruse. They get it on their shelf and they've got this great study, but who's going to execute it? But hey, I got the study. I invested with this big name company, et cetera. And then it backfires because no one owned it afterwards. And it frustrated me. I saw lives ruined, jobs lost. I've seen a lot of drama and it doesn't have to be that way, Scott.

And that really, along with the medical emergency, really changed me to the point where I genuinely, and again, this sounds corny, some people say, well, he's selling something, I genuinely want to help. And if I can prevent a disaster and maybe help a new owner in some cases, or a new leadership team coming up in some cases, then that gives me great satisfaction.

Scott Raven: Yeah, I'd love to paint a picture virtually because everybody's listening. Nobody sees us, right? In terms of real life, because

The Coffee Company Success Story

Scott Raven: you recently had an example with a coffee company that really brought this to life in terms of what does it mean to be in the thick of the battle with them and getting them to execute to where they need to execute.

Jeff Parnell: I think it starts with, in this case, and I give this owner an amazing amount of credit. She was transparent, open, bold, and willing to listen. And it's not that I or anyone else have all the answers, none of us do. But you know, you've got to be around people who've been in the trenches and have your best interests at heart. And to her credit, she listened. We dialogued. When there were disagreements, we talked through them. We were very transparent and open with each other. But to her credit, she had a mission. She stayed on the mission. And you know what? She thanked me several times for driving her and pushing her. And you've got to have a little bit of that in your life. We all have those people in our life who push us and drive us in different ways, sometimes spoken and sometimes unspoken. And again, it starts with a client who's open and transparent.

Scott Raven: Absolutely. I mean, you know, the adage that you want to go fast, go alone, you want to go far, go together. And having those mentors who can take your efforts and optimize them in terms of the results and output and impact are very critical. But you mentioned in terms of that she was committed to the journey. We've talked offline in terms of different situations where not everybody is committed, including the classic 50-50 partners where the partners want opposite things. How do you navigate those type of situations?

Jeff Parnell: Well, we've got to get to the meat of the issue. We've got to determine whose place at the table is going to really matter. But you've got 50 partners, or seven or eight partners, even granted, you've got mathematics of who owns what percentage. Certainly that's in the mix somewhere. By the same token, we have to agree on a common vision and what we all want. And the fact that everyone is going to hopefully get something, it won't be perfect for anybody, but is it going to be good enough? And it's no different than any compromise, something we don't sometimes do very well sometimes, but we have to get on the same page. Let's back up. Let's understand the market. I try to present what's out there in terms of possibilities. Are you a business that can exit profitably, successfully? What's your space look like? Is there a glut? Is there a shortage? And then we try to cast that vision and go forward.

Scott Raven: Now, I mean, you know, I'm going to say this tongue in cheek in terms of

Pride: The Biggest Obstacle

Scott Raven: this sounds like the founders who are too stubborn to get out of their own way, but there's elements to that in terms of why we keep hearing that day after day after day.

Jeff Parnell: Yeah. You know, it starts with that P word, pride. We're proud of what we've built. We're proud of the fact, and frankly there's probably a mathematical formula, but it's 10 times worse if your last name or first name's in the building, it escalates. I've seen that happen actually. But it really goes back to having real conversations and rolling up the sleeves. And sometimes, you know, I had a person recently say, you know, I don't think we can utilize your services. We were starting a relationship and I don't think we can get there. You know, I don't think I have the time to put into it.

I said, you know what? You can do whatever you need to do, and I respect that. However, in our very first one-on-one conversation, you said to me you wanted to spend more time with your wife and you had regrets. And you know what? That conversation happens to me all the time. I've heard about regrets about this or this. And again, my role is to say we can fix that. We can't change 50 years ago. But we can create a go forward plan, but we're going to have to talk openly. I'm going to have to push you. You're going to have to agree to let me push you. But you know what? You can push back and we can have dialogue. It's not that I'm coming in beating you up, but we're going to beat each other up a little bit.

Scott Raven: It's a big reason why the sixth dimension in the six dimensions of freedom of Corvus is life integration. So many where everything looks fantastic from the outside in terms of an externally successfully run business, but the home life is terrible. And to your point, that oftentimes what's getting in the way, whether it be professionally or personally, is an inability to be vulnerable. It's an inability to let your guard down and say what's really going on with you.

Vulnerability and Creating Safe Spaces

Scott Raven: How to the best of your ability do you create that safe space, that environment, to let the true person come out?

Jeff Parnell: Well, I try to be real. I try to talk about the fact that yes, I've been fortunate to have some really great successes, but we've all made mistakes and I'm not afraid of saying I wish I'd had this one back or that one back. And I think that helps create transparency. No one's perfect. And no one comes in with this idealistic approach that's bulletproof, top to bottom. We've all got some flaws somewhere, and we've got to be honest. And I really try to create that.

And I also believe very strongly in storytelling. I like to share different stories of people who've influenced me. And if I could, I'll share one quick one from my transplant surgeon, Dr. Madeira at Cleveland. I didn't meet him afterwards, he came by to see me and I was still asleep. My wife met him. I didn't. So

The Transplant Surgeon's Confidence

Jeff Parnell: I made a point to find him, track him down two years later through the transplant office. And they told me that was very rare. No one ever does this, which I was surprised about. I wanted to thank him. But the first thing I asked him was, what goes through your mind when you talk about vulnerability? He said to me, Jeff, he looked at me with these steely eyes and he said, I love what I do. I get the team together and I say, we're going in to win. Now this is a guy who literally is holding your life in his hands and there wasn't an ounce of anything but confidence, not arrogance, not cockiness, but confidence because he knew his craft and he loved what he did. Wow. That was, that's really where I started getting this idea in the back of my mind, which germinated over the next several years to write this book.

Scott Raven: Wow. You know, it's amazing in terms of that story and how that translates in a lot of respects to your view on operational excellence, which is big picture thinking and the belief that it will happen, but attention to detail, KPIs in order to make sure with every day you are moving in the right direction. Just like this transplant surgeon had the belief that, hey, this is going to be great, but there had to be a thousand little intricacies in terms of that operation that had to go together correctly to get to the end.

Jeff Parnell: Absolutely. And for six or eight or nine hours, I mean, that's about how long mine was, eight or nine hours, it's not like you're doing this for 15 minutes. Wow, that's behind me. And you mentioned KPIs.

KPIs and the Heart of Transition Metaphor

Jeff Parnell: Going through a situation like that, it's all about KPIs. I get KPIs measured every quarter. This number's this, this number's that. If this one's a little high or low, I tweak it, tweak a med, tweak this, tweak that. That's what they do. But really what stuck with me about this whole metaphor of the heart of transition, Scott, is the fact that before you even get on the list or get considered for the list, most of the better practices have a psychologist or a social worker come in and talk to you.

And in my case, they talked to me privately. They wanted to find out the gist of it. Will you change behavior? In other words, will you make sure you've got these 20 pills you're going to take a day, or are you going to take them every single time when you're supposed to? You have certain dietary restrictions. Not a lot, but there's certain ones I can't have, pomegranate juice, grapefruit juice, it affects the meds. Will you own this? And how's that any different from a business that is stuck in some way, shape or form and needs to, you know, honor what's working, but also go back and say, you know what? These other things weren't working. These initiatives, these sacred cows, I need to ditch them.

And that's what you do when you move forward with a transplant. You say, hold onto the good, but get rid of the bad or the ineffective and change the behavior. And isn't that what we're all dealing with?

Scott Raven: You know, it's interesting as we're talking offline, right? One of the things that you mention in terms of your philosophy is

Faith During Crisis

Scott Raven: when you get beaten up, that's the worst time to decide. And I'm just imagining, right, because in your personal story, your heart was quote unquote beaten up, right? It needed to. And as these businesses are going through the ebbs and flows in terms of how they're performing versus their KPIs, and you've got a business where every KPI looks bad, for lack of a better term, and this is when owners are panicking, right? Your philosophy in terms of having faith and staying the course with the way that you properly make decisions is empowering.

Jeff Parnell: Yeah, you're monitoring those numbers. You're not going to lose sight of the numbers, but you are going to keep moving forward. You're going to monitor, you're going to drive, and you are going to have that strong belief and faith in what can come next. You absolutely have to have that. And you know, I don't milk this, but to the extent that someone can hear a story where somebody went through a grueling health experience and came out on the other side with even more energy, hopefully that inspires somebody.

Scott Raven: Yeah, so you inspired your surgeon at the Cleveland Clinic to write the forward of the book for you, which we've already talked about in terms of tracking it down was very rare, right? Walk us through what that conversation was like in terms of, hey, I'm writing a book on this and I would love for you to do the forward on it.

Jeff Parnell: Yeah, that's a really interesting question. And it didn't happen when I met him two years after the event. That was simply to say thank you and just to meet him and shake his hand. About four years later, I reached back out to the office and said, I'd like to speak to him. And I told my transplant coordinator why, and I was able to get to his assistant. And the first thing he asked was, I want to see a copy of the book. Well, there wasn't a copy of the book, so I crafted a very detailed, I already had most of it done, but I tweaked and crafted and edited a very detailed and rigorous outline emphasizing why he was so important in this whole idea of transition and the changes you make. And he liked it.

And it turns out, I mean, he doesn't practice as a business person, but in addition to being an MD, he's an MBA. He really got the business aspect and we had a fantastic Zoom call. And he started using this term transitionist and that actually is a real word. I looked it up. It wasn't a fake word. But it was a perfect word because he said he transitions bodies and I transition businesses, and I thought that really stuck. I said, there's my thing right there. And it really impacted me in a major way. And the fact that he agreed to write the forward really meant the world to me because it was just an amazing moment. It was a very heartfelt moment for me for him to be willing to do that.

Scott Raven: And in both of your cases, right, the transition, the impact to the transition is not just the principal person that you are working with in your world.

Legacy: Building What Lives Beyond You

Scott Raven: There are families, there are employees, there are communities that are all going to have this ripple effect of impact from the change that you are driving. And how do you take the lessons that you've learned along the way to be able to properly educate these people who are in their sixties and their seventies and have been resistant to this type of change, to let them know, no, this is necessary and this is a big part of your legacy?

Jeff Parnell: Well, this idea that there's nothing more difficult in life than change is 100% correct. None of us wake up asking ourselves how many different things about ourselves we can change. That's just reality. So I understand that going in with the owners and I talk about where they are, what the current state is. I talk about as broadly and as specifically as possible the lives, the families, their legacy, what that's going to mean, and the fact that there can be a different way. This doesn't have to be their identity. Their identity can in part be the legacy they're leaving that will go forward.

Like one of the coffee businesses that I sold, she understood the new owners were going to take it forward in a broader way, and it excited her. So that meant a lot to her. She wasn't going to just sell it to anyone to take it and either ruin it or not give it the credit it deserved. So a lot of that is around understanding that, talking to them, being very open, talking about their families, their lives, significant others. Wives, husbands come into play, kids come into play quite a bit. You've got to understand the whole picture, but you've also got to understand that life is finite. We're not going to be around forever.

And it's not that you have to exit your business. I don't go in trying to sell a business. I go and try to improve the business and let's see where it goes. Because in one case, with the business I helped exit, we improved the business and created more value in that business over time.

Scott Raven: Wow. As we think about moving into my traditional close of these podcast episodes, I always do a tip of the cap to Randy Pausch's book, The Last Lecture, and his final phrase in there that this was written for my kids. So I always spin it some way, right? I'm going to spin it in terms of you getting to say this podcast was discussed for the next generation of business owners, right?

It's Not Too Late

Scott Raven: What are the key lessons from this podcast that you really want somebody to take away? If somebody had this too long, didn't listen episode in their life, and you're like, all right, give me 30 seconds and I'm going to tell you exactly what I want you to remember from this.

Jeff Parnell: It's not too late, first of all, and it's probably not your fault. You weren't always taught, you weren't always given opportunities to learn, but you can move forward. That's the biggest thing. Let's not dwell in it. Let's not be mired in it. Let's move forward.

Scott Raven: Absolutely. In terms of how people can move forward with you, if they so choose, give us the information on the book, The Heart of Transition, how they can get in contact with you. Hit us up with the details, man.

Jeff Parnell: Yeah, absolutely. So LinkedIn is one of the better ways to find me, Jeff Parnell. The website that's currently under development but it is active is TheHeartOfTransition.com. It'll allow you to sign up and receive advanced notice when the book's published. A little bit about why I wrote the book. I welcome conversations, whether it's about doing business or life, if I can impact you in some way, that's part of my mission in life.

Scott Raven: Very good. Well, I will put all of that into the show notes so that we have all of those links for everybody to reference, right?

Be Bold But Not Reckless

Scott Raven: Any final thoughts or words before we close out this episode?

Jeff Parnell: Wow. You know, that's always tough when you had such a great dialogue. Scott, you're good at pulling information out along the way. I think what I'd say is this, you know, you can be bold but not be reckless. That's what I'd probably go to right now. And boldness doesn't have to be out of control, irresponsible. But you don't get very far in life by sitting back and watching the parade go by.

Scott Raven: Nope.

Jeff Parnell: That's a line from a Rocky movie, by the way.

Scott Raven: Of course. Yes, I agree. I absolutely agree. Right, you've got to get the right accent in it and everything.

Jeff Parnell: That's exactly right. That's right. You know the scene.

Scott Raven: Right, at the same time, being a full participant in the arena is critical. I always love referencing the Teddy Roosevelt quote, the man in the arena, and it's exactly that. Don't be the bystander that plays what if, be the person, victory or defeat, that you fought in the arena.

Jeff Parnell: That's right. Exactly.

Scott Raven: Well, Jeff, hey, you were awesome to chat with. You know, a lot of great wisdom from your incredible journey. Thank you so much for being on the podcast, man.

Jeff Parnell: Thank you, Scott. Really appreciate the opportunity to be here. You do a fantastic job, and I love the work you're doing.

Scott Raven: Thank you so much, man. To my listening audience, right, please feel free to give us comments. You know, we want these episodes to be as impactful as possible. We love it if you subscribe so that you can get to the next episode when it comes out. Also, if there are people in your life who could use this wisdom, please feel free to share so that we're broad in terms of the impact that we're creating. Until then, I am Scott. We'll see you on the Corvus Effect. Take care.

Jeff Parnell: Take care.

Outro

Scott Raven: Thank you for joining me on The Corvus Effect. If today's conversation sparked ideas about how to free yourself from overwhelm, visit TheCorvusEffect.com for show notes, resources, and our free Sixth Dimensions Assessment, showing you exactly where you're trapped and how to architect your freedom. While you're there, check out the Corvus Learning Platform, where we turn insights into implementation. If this episode helped you see a new path forward, please subscribe and share it with others who are ready to pursue their definition of professional freedom. Join me next time as we continue exploring how to enhance your life through what you do professionally. It's time to make that your reality!

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Episode 88 - The Corvus Effect

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Intro

Scott Raven: Welcome to The Corvus Effect, where we explore what it takes to succeed professionally and truly enhance all parts of your life. I'm Scott Raven, Fractional COO and your host. Each episode we go behind the scenes with leaders who've mastered the delicate harmony of growing their professional endeavors while protecting what matters most. Ready to transform from Chief Everything Officer to achieving integration in all facets of your life? Let's soar!

Guest Introduction: Jeff Parnell

Scott Raven: And hello everyone. Welcome back to The Corvus Effect. I'm Scott. Today I am joined by Jeff Parnell, a fractional and interim CEO who brings 30 years of operational leadership to businesses facing their most critical transitions. He has taken companies from zero to a hundred million dollars in revenue, delivering three to four times revenue growth, and guiding multiple businesses through successful exits. But what makes Jeff's approach unique is what happened to him in 2018. A life-saving heart transplant gave him a second chance and crystallized his mission to help business owners transition on their terms before it's too late.

He has just closed two successful business exits in under 90 days just this year, and he is currently authoring the book, The Heart of Transition, scheduled for release in early 2026 with a forward written by his Cleveland Clinic transplant surgeon. So Jeff, welcome to the podcast, man.

Jeff Parnell: Hey great to be here, Scott. Thanks for the opportunity.

Scott Raven: You know what? The pleasure is ours. I'll put it that way, and we will talk about that life altering moment in 2018 soon enough.

Owning It: Trial by Fire at Overton's

Scott Raven: But I'm going to go back 30 years in time. I'm going to go back to 1988. First job at Overton's, where your only job description was make the numbers work. Trial by fire back then, but what did that teach you that still drives your work today?

Jeff Parnell: I think the concept I would go back to Scott is owning it. The owner of this company, Overton's, fantastic visionary, a driver, super passionate, off the charts passion. He was all about results. The other stuff, the prettiness, the semantics, the narrative didn't really matter as much. Numbers needed to work and it was trial by fire. Looking back, it was the best single opportunity I could have ever been given because I was held accountable for everything that had a number associated with it that didn't go to the CFO of the company.

Scott Raven: There you go. You know, particularly in today's day and age where it feels like there is a lot more focus on style versus substance, right? How is it for you to be able to take what I'll call an old school approach in terms of the substance matters to the way that you work with people?

Jeff Parnell: Well that's the beauty of direct marketing, and at that time it was catalog. We launched a website in 96, so I've been in e-commerce really since 96 as well. But it's all about the measurement of everything you do. And granted, some things you can't measure 100%. But you also need to innovate. So you've got to use both sides of the brain. And when you've been in direct marketing for X number of years, it's ingrained. You can't forget it. So you walk into businesses that aren't measuring a lot of things, some that aren't as measurable in terms of sales activity where it takes six months to close the sale, but you find metrics to put around it that track progress and success most importantly.

Scott Raven: Excellent. Now, part of that is your follow-up philosophy.

The Michael Jordan Philosophy

Scott Raven: I love how you've integrated the Michael Jordan approach in terms of take the shot but get the rebound as well. What is it about follow-up that you feel maybe lacking in today's world in terms of how you hold yourself accountable to those numbers over time?

Jeff Parnell: Well, we get discouraged with a lot of things going on in our world today in business and in life. And yet you have to get up. And of course, Michael Jordan's known for making a number of comments about the number of last minute shots he missed, about you don't make the shots you don't take. A lot of those kinds of analogies. I grew up in Eastern North Carolina, so basketball's king down there. And you learn this stuff. It becomes part of your DNA and you develop a thick skin. I grew up in a very rural part of the state where you were always fighting, scrapping for what you got, and you realize the world wasn't going to hand you anything. And I confess, people say, wow, he's really old school when his favorite movie series is Rocky.

Scott Raven: There you go. There you go. Well, you know, that makes the Philly part of me very proud. I'll put it that way. I remember when LeBron came back to the Cavaliers a second time, and he said, in northeast Ohio, nothing is given, respect is earned. So those philosophies in terms of hard work and teamwork, making the dream work. You've taken this across those 30 years that we talked about, right?

Adapting Leadership Across Different Cultures

Scott Raven: Originally starting as you said, within the marketing realm, the direct marketing realm, but ultimately evolving yourself into being the CEO, what were some of the things that you had to adapt, adjust, and grow about yourself along the way?

Jeff Parnell: I think the first thing that was most important is understanding the uniquenesses of people in terms of their style and their work ethic. I grew up in an area and spent, again, those 10 years at Overton's in a setting where it was hard work to the hilt. And when I moved to other parts of the country, it's not that people didn't work hard or didn't care, but it was different and you had to learn to appeal to the different styles. The people who've been in one setting their entire life don't get that opportunity. That was probably the biggest takeaway and the fact that you can never assume they've understood the message until you've gone back and forth several times.

Scott Raven: Absolutely. Now, a good number of people who listen to this podcast are entrepreneurs themselves and constantly struggle in terms of what they wish to pursue in life versus the avoidance of burnout. It's suggested that one in five entrepreneurs works 80 hour weeks or more.

Avoiding Burnout and Staying Grounded

Scott Raven: What from your experience have you learned in terms of working hard, but also not putting yourself in a position to get burnt out?

Jeff Parnell: Yeah. And you know, to be honest with you, I've struggled with that in my life quite a bit. Again, you referenced what happened eight years ago, that's helped a great deal. But I'm a worker. I've always believed in it, and it starts from growing up when I didn't make the basketball team in ninth grade and I was determined I wasn't going to get cut again and I wasn't. I had a certain amount of ability, but I wasn't a God gifted Michael Jordan athlete. I had to work my tail off to get a spot on the roster. And you don't forget that. My son once asked me, dad, do you feel like you wasted your time because you decided when you got to college not to pursue it? I said, absolutely not. That's tenacity and drive, and it has stayed with me.

So back to the whole burnout thing, it's difficult. It's been difficult for me. I try to stay grounded. My wife is amazing. She has kept me grounded. She reminds me of the bigger picture of life, not just business. And my faith is very strong. I mean, I wake up and I spend time there every morning, really refreshing and rejuvenating. Some days I'm not going to kid you, it's not a fairytale. Some days are tougher than others, but you keep moving forward.

Scott Raven: You keep moving forward. So I want to talk to the heart of transition, which is your look back at this. But before we get there,

The 2018 Heart Transplant Journey

Scott Raven: we do have to talk about the similar moment in 2018 where you did have your transplant. And I'm sure I could spend the entire episode talking about this, but there's so much to take. Let's try to sum it up in a nutshell for the folks who are listening to this, and I really want to focus on your mental and emotional state during this time period.

Jeff Parnell: Great. Yeah, so my situation was Cleveland Clinic ran a battery of tests, every test known to man. And the only thing they could come up with is I had a weakening heart. I didn't have blood pressure issues. I didn't have blockage. They tried everything. It was a battery that was on its last legs. And after having a checkup in December of 17, I called my cardiologist for the next month and said, I'm not feeling well. Something's not right. I've got to come back in. And I was feeling really weak, really run down, running a business. I gave my all to that business during the day, but at night, I'd crash. Okay, the dirty little secret. But when I went back they said, you're going to be here a while, and I didn't know what that meant.

Next thing you know, we're really talking seriously about a transplant. So it was trial by fire every day. A lot of pain, physical pain, some mental pain. I was in and out of ICU, and didn't know the outcome because when you're on a transplant list, and let me tell you, Scott, my gratitude couldn't be higher because I got the gift of a new heart. Some people don't.

Scott Raven: I was about to say, just because you're on the list doesn't mean you get matched.

Jeff Parnell: You do not. Whether it's kidney, heart, liver, whatever it might be. So I never felt I wouldn't get my heart, but believe me, it was trying physically. So you know, what really helped me mentally was my faith, my wife, and the fact that I was running a business at the time called FishUSA and that kept me focused on something other than lousy daytime TV in the hospital.

Scott Raven: Understood. Right. But you know, we talk so much in this Corvus Effect about masks and blind spots and how there is an unfortunate distortion of the truth in some cases, right?

The Hospital Game Face

Scott Raven: I can imagine that as you are going through this waiting process, but still having put the brave face on as the professional leader of your company, right, that there were times where you were saying, I am two different people living in the same body, or I just can't do this anymore in terms of quote unquote lying about who I am right now.

Jeff Parnell: That's a very interesting way of putting it. And I thought about that whole aspect when you're not at your best and yet you have to look a certain way, present a certain way, no question about that. And you put your game face on as the saying goes. It was challenging. I'm not going to kid you. There were times after calls when I'd wrap it up and I'd say, wow, that was tough. I hope I demonstrated my energy, my intellect, all of those kinds of things. But it was tough and it was an ongoing fight every day. And physically I was tired. You don't sleep well in hospitals. They're coming in at three in the morning to take vitals and take blood. So it's not a restful experience and you're going on nothing but fumes and adrenaline.

Scott Raven: Right. So we fast forward, right? You find out that there is a match. On the one hand, I could assume elation.

Jeff Parnell: Yep.

Scott Raven: On the other hand, I assume nervousness because now we have a very significant surgery that's coming up, right?

Jeff Parnell: Well, you know, you'd think that, but what's interesting, and I'm not even, I'm the guy that doesn't like to have blood work done, okay? I'm going to be very clear on that. But when I got my call on a Saturday afternoon in February, I was at Cleveland Clinic a total of five weeks. I was in my hospital room. You've got a heart coming in. I was elated. I was relieved and I couldn't wait to get it done. There was, and I'm telling you, my wife will say the same thing, neither she nor I were nervous. We really felt God had this thing. We felt this was our destination. It was relief, excitement, elation.

People say, well, how'd you sleep the night before? I said, lousy. They said, yeah, you must've been really wired. I said, yeah, I was. I kept thinking, when's 10 o'clock going to come so they can wheel me in? And as it turned out, they didn't take me in on that Sunday morning until like 1:00 or 1:30. So I couldn't wait to go. I couldn't wait to get this behind me. It had been a tough journey physically, mentally, and in every aspect. And I was ready to go to the next chapter. I really, really was.

Scott Raven: So, before we start talking about your book, let's talk about the immediate aftermath of surgery, right? Everything is successful, right? You're past the first couple of days in terms of is this going to work? And now you get to reflect in terms of,

Second Chances and Gratitude

Scott Raven: the universe has done this for me, so what is my next chapter going to be that's unique from everything that I'm already doing? What was that thought process like?

Jeff Parnell: That's a fantastic question because it really, and this is an overused phrase to some people, it's not to me, gratitude. I was very grateful I got a heart. Then it started sinking in that someone else had a loss, Scott, and you don't always think about that immediately. Some people think about it even going in. When I came out, I started thinking about that aspect of it. So as I reflected on the next chapter, I said, you know what? I've got a second chance, Jeff. Don't waste it. Don't blow it. If there's some things you do differently, do them now.

Scott Raven: Yep. Absolutely.

The Silver Tsunami: Trapped Business Owners

Scott Raven: And I think this is a beautiful segue in terms of the book, The Heart of Transition, boldness, transparency, willingness to change, and specifically you are focusing on the founders and owners who are in their sixties and their seventies who are trapped in their business, but at the same time feel there's no way out. They should have started this years ago. And what's the point in terms of starting now, right?

Jeff Parnell: Yeah.

Scott Raven: What from your experience is driving you to be able to communicate, look, yeah, the tree should have been planted years ago, but the second best time is right now?

Jeff Parnell: Well, life is short, Scott. I know that as well as anyone. Now I also know that in some circumstances I wouldn't have made it. Now, what if, you know, I had a great team in place. I got fully supported when I was in the hospital by my company. And we didn't miss a beat. We had a strong group and I was able to stay active too, which didn't hurt. By the same token, a lot of people don't have the backup plan. They don't have it prepared. And I had an urgency, not trying to be dramatic in any way, shape or form, but we need to understand our days are limited, whether we're 28 or 78.

And with the silver tsunami being what it is, and these aging baby boomers, sixties, seventies, even eighties, now at a point where they want to live life, yet they're held hostage by their business. I want to be a message to say, you know what? It's not necessarily your fault. You didn't plan. It doesn't always have to take two or three years. I mean, there are cases when it does need to take time, but there are ways to remedy the situation sooner rather than later. And I want to help.

Scott Raven: There you go. You know, it's a very provocative question that you ask this silver tsunami, which obviously you have direct experience with this question.

What Happens If You're Hospitalized for 90 Days?

Scott Raven: What happens if you're in the hospital for 90 days, you know, with this aging demographic who by all accounts are doing everything they can in order to lead a healthy life, but stuff happens in life, right? You may have an extended stay.

Jeff Parnell: We're not being morbid about it, but it's just the reality of life and our chronology. And I did have a conversation with an owner last year and said, what would happen if you were in the hospital for that length of time? And he got very quiet, then the owner responded, can you help me sell the company? I need to sell it. And that wasn't what I had gone in to do, but that's the way it worked out. And it was a great exit for her and a new owner as well. So yeah, you've got to take life by the horns and be in control of it. But if you've waited till the midnight hour, it may not be too late.

Scott Raven: Yeah. You know, you were talking about offline in terms of another situation where you had a colleague that passed up a great offer in the eight figures and a decade lost, for lack of better term, just from fear of pulling the trigger around being able to understand this is the time to take bold action.

Jeff Parnell: Absolutely. And that business owner also was not yet comfortable with not being the main character in the play. And that comes into account quite a bit with owners and entrepreneurs. We're proud of what we do, right? But by the same token, there comes a time when you've got to look at the bigger picture, and that's easier said than done for many.

Scott Raven: Yeah. Now you're coming in with what I termed at the front, an execution focused approach, and one of the reasons why you are so passionate about this approach is

Beautiful Notebooks, Zero Execution

Scott Raven: you're tired of seeing very mature companies get destroyed by million dollar projects. Right? First off, why does that happen? Second off, why does that irritate you so much?

Jeff Parnell: Well, I was part of a project like that on the receiving end of a project, and it was a disaster. It was beautiful work, great slides, great reporting, beautiful notebooks. They're on a desk somewhere, probably, but zero execution. And I came from an operating background. I'm not a quote professional consultant. That's not who I am. I was an operator for more than 30 years. And to us it was always about did you make your numbers, not how pretty was it? And that's in my DNA and I saw it backfire.

Yet you go back to the issue of boldness. You mentioned sometimes people think it's safe to get that great study to put on the shelf and it's essentially a little bit of a ruse. They get it on their shelf and they've got this great study, but who's going to execute it? But hey, I got the study. I invested with this big name company, et cetera. And then it backfires because no one owned it afterwards. And it frustrated me. I saw lives ruined, jobs lost. I've seen a lot of drama and it doesn't have to be that way, Scott.

And that really, along with the medical emergency, really changed me to the point where I genuinely, and again, this sounds corny, some people say, well, he's selling something, I genuinely want to help. And if I can prevent a disaster and maybe help a new owner in some cases, or a new leadership team coming up in some cases, then that gives me great satisfaction.

Scott Raven: Yeah, I'd love to paint a picture virtually because everybody's listening. Nobody sees us, right? In terms of real life, because

The Coffee Company Success Story

Scott Raven: you recently had an example with a coffee company that really brought this to life in terms of what does it mean to be in the thick of the battle with them and getting them to execute to where they need to execute.

Jeff Parnell: I think it starts with, in this case, and I give this owner an amazing amount of credit. She was transparent, open, bold, and willing to listen. And it's not that I or anyone else have all the answers, none of us do. But you know, you've got to be around people who've been in the trenches and have your best interests at heart. And to her credit, she listened. We dialogued. When there were disagreements, we talked through them. We were very transparent and open with each other. But to her credit, she had a mission. She stayed on the mission. And you know what? She thanked me several times for driving her and pushing her. And you've got to have a little bit of that in your life. We all have those people in our life who push us and drive us in different ways, sometimes spoken and sometimes unspoken. And again, it starts with a client who's open and transparent.

Scott Raven: Absolutely. I mean, you know, the adage that you want to go fast, go alone, you want to go far, go together. And having those mentors who can take your efforts and optimize them in terms of the results and output and impact are very critical. But you mentioned in terms of that she was committed to the journey. We've talked offline in terms of different situations where not everybody is committed, including the classic 50-50 partners where the partners want opposite things. How do you navigate those type of situations?

Jeff Parnell: Well, we've got to get to the meat of the issue. We've got to determine whose place at the table is going to really matter. But you've got 50 partners, or seven or eight partners, even granted, you've got mathematics of who owns what percentage. Certainly that's in the mix somewhere. By the same token, we have to agree on a common vision and what we all want. And the fact that everyone is going to hopefully get something, it won't be perfect for anybody, but is it going to be good enough? And it's no different than any compromise, something we don't sometimes do very well sometimes, but we have to get on the same page. Let's back up. Let's understand the market. I try to present what's out there in terms of possibilities. Are you a business that can exit profitably, successfully? What's your space look like? Is there a glut? Is there a shortage? And then we try to cast that vision and go forward.

Scott Raven: Now, I mean, you know, I'm going to say this tongue in cheek in terms of

Pride: The Biggest Obstacle

Scott Raven: this sounds like the founders who are too stubborn to get out of their own way, but there's elements to that in terms of why we keep hearing that day after day after day.

Jeff Parnell: Yeah. You know, it starts with that P word, pride. We're proud of what we've built. We're proud of the fact, and frankly there's probably a mathematical formula, but it's 10 times worse if your last name or first name's in the building, it escalates. I've seen that happen actually. But it really goes back to having real conversations and rolling up the sleeves. And sometimes, you know, I had a person recently say, you know, I don't think we can utilize your services. We were starting a relationship and I don't think we can get there. You know, I don't think I have the time to put into it.

I said, you know what? You can do whatever you need to do, and I respect that. However, in our very first one-on-one conversation, you said to me you wanted to spend more time with your wife and you had regrets. And you know what? That conversation happens to me all the time. I've heard about regrets about this or this. And again, my role is to say we can fix that. We can't change 50 years ago. But we can create a go forward plan, but we're going to have to talk openly. I'm going to have to push you. You're going to have to agree to let me push you. But you know what? You can push back and we can have dialogue. It's not that I'm coming in beating you up, but we're going to beat each other up a little bit.

Scott Raven: It's a big reason why the sixth dimension in the six dimensions of freedom of Corvus is life integration. So many where everything looks fantastic from the outside in terms of an externally successfully run business, but the home life is terrible. And to your point, that oftentimes what's getting in the way, whether it be professionally or personally, is an inability to be vulnerable. It's an inability to let your guard down and say what's really going on with you.

Vulnerability and Creating Safe Spaces

Scott Raven: How to the best of your ability do you create that safe space, that environment, to let the true person come out?

Jeff Parnell: Well, I try to be real. I try to talk about the fact that yes, I've been fortunate to have some really great successes, but we've all made mistakes and I'm not afraid of saying I wish I'd had this one back or that one back. And I think that helps create transparency. No one's perfect. And no one comes in with this idealistic approach that's bulletproof, top to bottom. We've all got some flaws somewhere, and we've got to be honest. And I really try to create that.

And I also believe very strongly in storytelling. I like to share different stories of people who've influenced me. And if I could, I'll share one quick one from my transplant surgeon, Dr. Madeira at Cleveland. I didn't meet him afterwards, he came by to see me and I was still asleep. My wife met him. I didn't. So

The Transplant Surgeon's Confidence

Jeff Parnell: I made a point to find him, track him down two years later through the transplant office. And they told me that was very rare. No one ever does this, which I was surprised about. I wanted to thank him. But the first thing I asked him was, what goes through your mind when you talk about vulnerability? He said to me, Jeff, he looked at me with these steely eyes and he said, I love what I do. I get the team together and I say, we're going in to win. Now this is a guy who literally is holding your life in his hands and there wasn't an ounce of anything but confidence, not arrogance, not cockiness, but confidence because he knew his craft and he loved what he did. Wow. That was, that's really where I started getting this idea in the back of my mind, which germinated over the next several years to write this book.

Scott Raven: Wow. You know, it's amazing in terms of that story and how that translates in a lot of respects to your view on operational excellence, which is big picture thinking and the belief that it will happen, but attention to detail, KPIs in order to make sure with every day you are moving in the right direction. Just like this transplant surgeon had the belief that, hey, this is going to be great, but there had to be a thousand little intricacies in terms of that operation that had to go together correctly to get to the end.

Jeff Parnell: Absolutely. And for six or eight or nine hours, I mean, that's about how long mine was, eight or nine hours, it's not like you're doing this for 15 minutes. Wow, that's behind me. And you mentioned KPIs.

KPIs and the Heart of Transition Metaphor

Jeff Parnell: Going through a situation like that, it's all about KPIs. I get KPIs measured every quarter. This number's this, this number's that. If this one's a little high or low, I tweak it, tweak a med, tweak this, tweak that. That's what they do. But really what stuck with me about this whole metaphor of the heart of transition, Scott, is the fact that before you even get on the list or get considered for the list, most of the better practices have a psychologist or a social worker come in and talk to you.

And in my case, they talked to me privately. They wanted to find out the gist of it. Will you change behavior? In other words, will you make sure you've got these 20 pills you're going to take a day, or are you going to take them every single time when you're supposed to? You have certain dietary restrictions. Not a lot, but there's certain ones I can't have, pomegranate juice, grapefruit juice, it affects the meds. Will you own this? And how's that any different from a business that is stuck in some way, shape or form and needs to, you know, honor what's working, but also go back and say, you know what? These other things weren't working. These initiatives, these sacred cows, I need to ditch them.

And that's what you do when you move forward with a transplant. You say, hold onto the good, but get rid of the bad or the ineffective and change the behavior. And isn't that what we're all dealing with?

Scott Raven: You know, it's interesting as we're talking offline, right? One of the things that you mention in terms of your philosophy is

Faith During Crisis

Scott Raven: when you get beaten up, that's the worst time to decide. And I'm just imagining, right, because in your personal story, your heart was quote unquote beaten up, right? It needed to. And as these businesses are going through the ebbs and flows in terms of how they're performing versus their KPIs, and you've got a business where every KPI looks bad, for lack of a better term, and this is when owners are panicking, right? Your philosophy in terms of having faith and staying the course with the way that you properly make decisions is empowering.

Jeff Parnell: Yeah, you're monitoring those numbers. You're not going to lose sight of the numbers, but you are going to keep moving forward. You're going to monitor, you're going to drive, and you are going to have that strong belief and faith in what can come next. You absolutely have to have that. And you know, I don't milk this, but to the extent that someone can hear a story where somebody went through a grueling health experience and came out on the other side with even more energy, hopefully that inspires somebody.

Scott Raven: Yeah, so you inspired your surgeon at the Cleveland Clinic to write the forward of the book for you, which we've already talked about in terms of tracking it down was very rare, right? Walk us through what that conversation was like in terms of, hey, I'm writing a book on this and I would love for you to do the forward on it.

Jeff Parnell: Yeah, that's a really interesting question. And it didn't happen when I met him two years after the event. That was simply to say thank you and just to meet him and shake his hand. About four years later, I reached back out to the office and said, I'd like to speak to him. And I told my transplant coordinator why, and I was able to get to his assistant. And the first thing he asked was, I want to see a copy of the book. Well, there wasn't a copy of the book, so I crafted a very detailed, I already had most of it done, but I tweaked and crafted and edited a very detailed and rigorous outline emphasizing why he was so important in this whole idea of transition and the changes you make. And he liked it.

And it turns out, I mean, he doesn't practice as a business person, but in addition to being an MD, he's an MBA. He really got the business aspect and we had a fantastic Zoom call. And he started using this term transitionist and that actually is a real word. I looked it up. It wasn't a fake word. But it was a perfect word because he said he transitions bodies and I transition businesses, and I thought that really stuck. I said, there's my thing right there. And it really impacted me in a major way. And the fact that he agreed to write the forward really meant the world to me because it was just an amazing moment. It was a very heartfelt moment for me for him to be willing to do that.

Scott Raven: And in both of your cases, right, the transition, the impact to the transition is not just the principal person that you are working with in your world.

Legacy: Building What Lives Beyond You

Scott Raven: There are families, there are employees, there are communities that are all going to have this ripple effect of impact from the change that you are driving. And how do you take the lessons that you've learned along the way to be able to properly educate these people who are in their sixties and their seventies and have been resistant to this type of change, to let them know, no, this is necessary and this is a big part of your legacy?

Jeff Parnell: Well, this idea that there's nothing more difficult in life than change is 100% correct. None of us wake up asking ourselves how many different things about ourselves we can change. That's just reality. So I understand that going in with the owners and I talk about where they are, what the current state is. I talk about as broadly and as specifically as possible the lives, the families, their legacy, what that's going to mean, and the fact that there can be a different way. This doesn't have to be their identity. Their identity can in part be the legacy they're leaving that will go forward.

Like one of the coffee businesses that I sold, she understood the new owners were going to take it forward in a broader way, and it excited her. So that meant a lot to her. She wasn't going to just sell it to anyone to take it and either ruin it or not give it the credit it deserved. So a lot of that is around understanding that, talking to them, being very open, talking about their families, their lives, significant others. Wives, husbands come into play, kids come into play quite a bit. You've got to understand the whole picture, but you've also got to understand that life is finite. We're not going to be around forever.

And it's not that you have to exit your business. I don't go in trying to sell a business. I go and try to improve the business and let's see where it goes. Because in one case, with the business I helped exit, we improved the business and created more value in that business over time.

Scott Raven: Wow. As we think about moving into my traditional close of these podcast episodes, I always do a tip of the cap to Randy Pausch's book, The Last Lecture, and his final phrase in there that this was written for my kids. So I always spin it some way, right? I'm going to spin it in terms of you getting to say this podcast was discussed for the next generation of business owners, right?

It's Not Too Late

Scott Raven: What are the key lessons from this podcast that you really want somebody to take away? If somebody had this too long, didn't listen episode in their life, and you're like, all right, give me 30 seconds and I'm going to tell you exactly what I want you to remember from this.

Jeff Parnell: It's not too late, first of all, and it's probably not your fault. You weren't always taught, you weren't always given opportunities to learn, but you can move forward. That's the biggest thing. Let's not dwell in it. Let's not be mired in it. Let's move forward.

Scott Raven: Absolutely. In terms of how people can move forward with you, if they so choose, give us the information on the book, The Heart of Transition, how they can get in contact with you. Hit us up with the details, man.

Jeff Parnell: Yeah, absolutely. So LinkedIn is one of the better ways to find me, Jeff Parnell. The website that's currently under development but it is active is TheHeartOfTransition.com. It'll allow you to sign up and receive advanced notice when the book's published. A little bit about why I wrote the book. I welcome conversations, whether it's about doing business or life, if I can impact you in some way, that's part of my mission in life.

Scott Raven: Very good. Well, I will put all of that into the show notes so that we have all of those links for everybody to reference, right?

Be Bold But Not Reckless

Scott Raven: Any final thoughts or words before we close out this episode?

Jeff Parnell: Wow. You know, that's always tough when you had such a great dialogue. Scott, you're good at pulling information out along the way. I think what I'd say is this, you know, you can be bold but not be reckless. That's what I'd probably go to right now. And boldness doesn't have to be out of control, irresponsible. But you don't get very far in life by sitting back and watching the parade go by.

Scott Raven: Nope.

Jeff Parnell: That's a line from a Rocky movie, by the way.

Scott Raven: Of course. Yes, I agree. I absolutely agree. Right, you've got to get the right accent in it and everything.

Jeff Parnell: That's exactly right. That's right. You know the scene.

Scott Raven: Right, at the same time, being a full participant in the arena is critical. I always love referencing the Teddy Roosevelt quote, the man in the arena, and it's exactly that. Don't be the bystander that plays what if, be the person, victory or defeat, that you fought in the arena.

Jeff Parnell: That's right. Exactly.

Scott Raven: Well, Jeff, hey, you were awesome to chat with. You know, a lot of great wisdom from your incredible journey. Thank you so much for being on the podcast, man.

Jeff Parnell: Thank you, Scott. Really appreciate the opportunity to be here. You do a fantastic job, and I love the work you're doing.

Scott Raven: Thank you so much, man. To my listening audience, right, please feel free to give us comments. You know, we want these episodes to be as impactful as possible. We love it if you subscribe so that you can get to the next episode when it comes out. Also, if there are people in your life who could use this wisdom, please feel free to share so that we're broad in terms of the impact that we're creating. Until then, I am Scott. We'll see you on the Corvus Effect. Take care.

Jeff Parnell: Take care.

Outro

Scott Raven: Thank you for joining me on The Corvus Effect. If today's conversation sparked ideas about how to free yourself from overwhelm, visit TheCorvusEffect.com for show notes, resources, and our free Sixth Dimensions Assessment, showing you exactly where you're trapped and how to architect your freedom. While you're there, check out the Corvus Learning Platform, where we turn insights into implementation. If this episode helped you see a new path forward, please subscribe and share it with others who are ready to pursue their definition of professional freedom. Join me next time as we continue exploring how to enhance your life through what you do professionally. It's time to make that your reality!