Fear, Surrender & moving forwards - nothing is permanent - Louisa Rodriguez

What an episode to kick off the new season, join me in this chat that was filmed live in front of an audience! eeks!! 

A journey into what happens when we lean into the dark places and what happens afterwards.....

find Louisa at the @ the joy tank on instagram. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey everybody, welcome to Finding Foundations the Pop. This is a space for honest conversations about the moments that shape us, those turning points, that messy middle, and everything in between. In each episode, I sit down with somebody to explore what they've learned along their way, how they've held on to it when things felt really difficult, and what's changed because of it. No perfect answers, just real stories. I'm Karen Tom and this is Finding Foundations. Woo! And this was an exciting one! We filmed this first episode live with an audience. I know, pretty scary, but I loved it and the women had brilliant questions to ask afterwards. It was such a good night. But who was this first conversation with you, my ask? Serves Louisa Rodriguez. She's an executive coach, leadership, learning and development consultant, and mountain leader. She spent the first 10 years of her career working in the voluntary sector, advocating for and supporting marginalised people. This included setting up and running a service to support women out of sex work. She ran a programme for peace across the north of England before moving on to set up and run her own social enterprise to campaign for greater awareness of and support for people affected by GTSD. In 2017, Louisa changed direction, working in the corporate sector, setting up learning and development departments for two different companies, driving cultural change before specialising in leadership and performance. Louisa was a volunteer delegate for the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women's 67th and 68th session. She now works as an independent consultant, coaching and running various development programmes from women in leadership to inclusion to team development, positive communication and well-being. In her role as mountain leader, she connects people to the outdoors for well-being, learning and development. When she isn't at work, you can find her running in the fells, swimming in the beautiful lakes of Cumbria, writing poetry, visiting all the wonderful independent bookshops that feed her book obsession. Wow, what a bio. So let's get into it. Um how does it feel hearing all of that?

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Yeah, it's a bit weird, isn't it? I mean, oh get asked to write bios all the time I wouldn't put. Um but yeah, I have crammed quite a lot in. I feel like I loved a few lives in yeah, in my in my life. Um, but also I think from where I've come from, like sort of 11 years ago to now, it's I feel very grateful and for where I found myself at this moment in time.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yeah, absolutely. I think you've done so much in such a short space of time that it feels like it is already somehow a lifetime. It's strange, isn't it, as well, when you think back, like over the last few months, there's really been this like what were you doing in 2016? And it's like this sort of like decade, um, this decade backwards of looking. And I think it really feels like so many people really are in such different places to where they were in yeah, 2015, 16, what whatever it was.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah, I think so. Um life has changed a lot as well, you know. I think uh sort of thinking about when I was 20. We I was talking recently with friends about we went out before the age of social media and all our all our dark nights on in in the nightclubs have didn't they're not out there, they're sort of kept secret. But uh I think it's interesting to think. So I turned 40 two years ago, and that was quite a moment for me because when I turned 30, it was like the worst time in my life. Um, you know, my life utterly kind of fell apart, really, and I felt like I lost everything. And um yeah, it was a really dark time. Um, sort of early 2015, I was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress as a result of everything I'd been through. Um, and then when I turned 40, it was like the best year of my life, and it it was quite emotional for me because I just looked back and I was like, I made a promise to myself. So when I got diagnosed with post-traumatic stress, I I cried a lot when I found out that that's sort of what was going on, and it made a lot of sense though. But I kind of made a promise to myself. I was like, everything has fallen away. I had um I felt like I lost everything, but one thing I did have was running. So I used to run. I ran a lot, and running was absolutely fundamental to how I recovered. Um and I often say running saved my life, and it 100% did. It was a thing, the only thing that great me out of bed at that time. And I made this promise to myself the day I got diagnosed. I was like, right, your life is really rock bottom, but um you're gonna come back from this and you're gonna make your life even better than it was before all of this happened. And that was a promise I made to myself. And it's funny, I wrote like I wrote down over a period of sort of a year or so, I wrote down all these things that I wanted to do and the things that I wanted to achieve, and um sort of just had them there. And then when I turned 40, I kind of looked back over the 10 years and I was like, I did it, like I did it. Um to turn 40 with the best of your life coming from like the worst time of your life in a decade, um, and celebrating with friends, you know. Because you know, when you turn 40, you've got to celebrate big. Had like two weeks of celebrations, and it was it was actually quite emotional, it was quite emotional actually, just sort of looking back and realizing that I did it. And you know, I think it was a decade, and I think that's a really important the life I have now wasn't built overnight, it was built over a decade. Yeah, and it was lots of small things that add up, and I think and I talk about this a lot actually with leaders and when I'm doing development programs, everyone wants the bit the big thing, right? They want to be in the big thing, but no one gets to the big thing like overnight.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Everything takes some time to get there. Every small step. I'm only gonna cut in that one because we're gonna go back to the beginning. You're gonna whizz with like 10 minutes, and I'm like, come on, slow down, slow down. So if you think about um where you were at the beginning, um at the beginning part of that uh decade and where you are now, what is the what's the one truth that it is that you've come to know? Is there a word or like a metaphor or something that sums up?

SPEAKER_01 6:30

There's a couple, I have one, I've a couple. So one of the fundamental things that I lived by was I'm gonna take this pain, I'm gonna turn it into something, I'm gonna turn it into purpose and power.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

And um so I don't I don't want to talk about the trauma itself. No, no, no, but the trauma that I went through wasn't clean, shall we say? So um it went on for quite a few years, and there was there was a court case, and there was serious, so I think you know, I'd be like, oh, moving forward, and then something would happen, and it felt like it'd come and sideswiped me.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

And so then what I do is I write, okay, I've got to this point where I was like, I'm gonna take this pain and I'm gonna turn it into something powerful. And I used it to motivate me. So I remember um in 2014, I no, 2013, I got into ultra running, and I remember watching um it's a very random story, but I ended up with these Irish championships because I was raising when it was PTSD, and there's this woman, and she ran like 140 miles in like 24 hours of this track. Like I was like, my mind has blown. I was like, oh my god, I was like, one day I'm gonna run 100 miles, like I want to do that. And so um I'd be like, right, like I'm gonna I'm gonna do that, and sort of trained. And actually, my first attempt at 100 miles, this was such a stupid idea. So I decided I was gonna run 100 miles the day after this court case, right? And the court case was hideously stressful. Run it out, run it out. It was hideous, hideously stressful. Like every day you get moved, and it was all very public, it was in the media, it was very public and hideously stressful. And every day it would be like, you're gonna be getting caught on Wednesday, and then be like, No, we're running behind, you're gonna be in court and things. So every day you'd get like getting worked up. And then I was in the court on Friday giving my evidence. Super draining, exhausting, and it was kind of an end of like a three-year journey. And I booked to do this hundred-mile run the next day. And I remember getting up in the morning at like 6 a.m. just being utterly, utterly exhausted. Like mentally, I just hadn't, and I remember thinking, I don't think I've got it in me in me today. But I thought, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go show up. And yeah, I still got to 60 miles, but I I just didn't have it in me.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Yeah, I mean, to be fair, to get to 60 miles, I think I'd be quite happy.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

You knew what was really interesting, actually. I remember I remember it, it was a really cold night, it was like below um freezing, and I was shivering, and it was like mile 45, and it was in the dark, and it was November, and it was fucking it was grim.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

I mean, this just sounds like torture.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Yeah, and I was um and I remember messaging my friend at the time going, I don't think I can do it. And I've drawn quite a lot of vultures by that point. I was like, I don't think I can do it, and they're like, and they were like, What do you mean? And I was like, I just don't, and I said, and I remember saying to him, I feel like I've been through enough pain. I don't, I don't need to do it. Yeah, and I had to keep going for another 15 miles because I had to get to the checkpoint to like get out of this race, and then I got to the end, I got to the 60 miles, and I just was like, No, I'm done, I'm done. Um, but then if anyone is into their running, you kind of once you get the bug for things, you're like, oh, I can't anyway. I was like, went away and I reflected on it, and I was like, no, no, no, I'm gonna run 100 miles. But what I realized I needed to do was train my mind better. Yeah, and the next year I ran a hundred miles. Yeah, I did a race, a hundred mile race. Like, you know, that was the thing that I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

I think in that kind of sense, I've never run a hundred miles, I've done a couple of marathons, but I think your your body, your mind gives up before your body does. Like your body will just keep going, going, going. And it's your mind that's that constant battle.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Yeah. Yeah, they say like running an ultra is like some like 80% mind, 20% body. Yeah. Um, but I remember when I was running that 100 miles, I was like, right, you know, when it got tough, I was like, well, look at everything you've been through. If you can get through that, you can get through this. And um, yeah, I don't know how I did it, but I did it. I was, I was, I was an utter mess at the end. I remember the last three miles, I put little mix on. Any any of the little mix pumps? I love little mix. I had them on my iPod for the last three miles, and that's what got me to the finish. I remember getting to the finish. And this guy was like, one of the guys that worked on the race, he went, Oh, what are you listening to? I said, Oh, little mix. And he went, Oh, a little mix. And I said, Do not diss little mix, they just got me through the finish line. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, yeah, I was like determined to do this hundred-mile race, and then there was other things sort of um in 2016, like the the trial was adjourned and it was really unexpected, and loads of different stuff kept happening related to the trauma. And every time something bad happened, I'd go, right, how can I turn this into something positive? So I'd always wanted to go traveling on my own.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

And I was like, right, this summer that's it, I'm going traveling. So I went and travelled around Southeast Asia on my own, and then I wanted to do a conference to like raise awareness of um for the International Day to Eliminate Violence Against Women. I was like, I really want to do a conference, I think it's really important. Something else happened, I was like, right, we're gonna make that happen. And basically, every time I basically came to this point where something bad happened, I'd be like, right, well, I'm gonna turn it on its head, and how can I use that to motivate me? And at the top also sounds quite tiring as well, though. Like it must have felt quite exhausting. At the time, I like that was just that was how I dealt with stuff. Yeah, and I think you kind of get on a I don't think I really thought about it at time. It was like it was kind of like that I didn't feel like there was any this is how I'm dealing with it. Yeah, because actually I want to move forward with my life, and I think that was the other thing is I really didn't want I really didn't want the trauma to define me. Yeah, so I was like, I want to define myself, and I think because some of the stuff that happened was quite public, like I didn't always feel like I had, you know, everyone would have their own opinion on what happened. Yeah, yeah. And I I was like, well, I want to define it, and I don't want to become the trauma. Yeah, it's like taking ownership of it, yeah. And I was really like, I I remember sort of after the trial happened, I was like, right, I want a near second people to look at me for who I am now, not for what happened to me.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

And that kind of motivated me as well. I was like, I'm gonna define who I am, I'm not gonna be defined by other people. Um, and it was, it wasn't until lockdown, actually. I got to lockdown, and basically, if lockdown hadn't happened, I would have had a full-blown burnout. I was, I was on a train, I was traveling the country for work, and I was on a train every day. And I remember just being like, oh, it's slightly ironic now. Because I remember being like in February going, I just need a minute to breathe. I just need a minute to breathe. And then it's like be careful what you were.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Did you know you're gonna get because everyone got lockdown?

SPEAKER_01 12:55

I've got a furlough. Um, but actually that made me stop. It really made me stop and go, right, you keep on burning out. And I actually didn't realise until that lockdown that for a long time I've been running really fast. Yeah, I've been running really fast and achieve, achieve, achieve, do this, do this, do this. Look at me, I'm okay. Yeah. And actually in lockdown, I was like, I don't need to run anymore. Like you're, you know, look what you've done, look at where your life's at. And it was actually a moment then to redefine myself again. Yeah. And I feel like in the last sort of 12 years, you kind of, I think that's one thing that I realize is you kind of have to, life is about learning and evolving. And I think we, you know, you you're in your twenties and you're a certain version of yourself, you're in your 30s, you're a certain version of yourself. And we kind of have to kind of surrender that version of ourselves to become the next version.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Yeah. And I think as well, that there's that point where you have the you you have the tools that you've got, and that's how you can that's how you can live with things. And it's, you know, the more aware you become, the more experience you get, the things that happen to you, you learn and evolve from it, and you get another set of tools so you can look at things differently and you can come back at them from a different perspective somehow. What do you think? Um, I sorry, I think I missed that. What was the what what was the word that you would um summer that journey?

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Oh god, I don't know, it's quite hard. Probably a mix of like surrender and hope. So I think you and actually when I was diagnosed with trauma, one of the things I really battled with for quite a while was I just want to be that person I was before.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

I want to be that all glitter. I used to love glitter and I was like all glittery and everything happy. But when you've been through something that when you go through like post-traumatic stress, your world isn't safe anymore. Yeah. You've experienced something where it's like this and I completely lost trust in myself and I lost trust in other people. And I was like, I just want to be that person that can just see love and love and rainbows and see the good in everybody. And I was like, I just want to be that person. And it wasn't until I was willing to go you're never gonna be that person again.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Because you can't be, because actually what you've experienced has shaken your world up. Yeah. But you can be something else. And I think in some respects, that process of losing everything, like I lost my career, I kind of lost my integrity, I lost a lot of things. And then you come back from it, it does make you a bit more like, well, actually, you don't need to hold so tightly to things because all those things that I lost, I'm here, I survived, and things that I never, yeah, things that I never wanted to happen happened. And and and you know, even now, sometimes I'll sort of sit there and I'll face a hard thing. And I'll go, Louisa, you know, you can do that, get through get through anything. And there's kind of a strength that you can draw from that, yeah. Um, and a fearlessness. I think I've got quite comfortable with fear, um, because I'm so used to pushing that comfort zone.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

So tell us about um that's quite a it's like the as we were saying earlier, it's almost like be that thing that you want to, like hope. Sorry, surrender and hope. They're the the almost like the the light in the dark of each other, isn't it? It's like in that surrender, it gives you hope. Um, and I guess it's surrendering to that fear, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Yeah, and surrendering, surrendering to the process, which is really hard, because I think as humans we want to feel like we're in control, but we can't.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

I mean, and also we don't want to lose control either, do we?

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Yeah, and we have to sit with the unknown. So, like when I work with leaders, I often say people are not black and white, they're every shade of grey. And that's what makes leadership like amazing, but also very challenging. And I think um when I was sort of knee deep in the trauma, I kind of look at it now as like I was in the dark, I felt like I was wandering in the dark, and it was just like a really dark, bleak place. Um and that hope was just it was like a teeny little bit of light in that darkness. But what I understand now is so my me and my friend, we used to talk about the caterpillar, and it goes into this chrysalis, right? And then it comes out this beautiful butterfly. But when it goes into chrysalis, it's really like gross and messy, and it's like trans transformative, yeah, and it's really uncomfortable. But they have to go through that in terms of um becoming a butterfly. And it's the same with like seasons, right? Nature does it every winter, everything dies, so it can be reborn again. And I think that you know, when I was going through the trauma trying to heal, it felt like I had to pull myself apart and put myself back together again and really stare myself in the face. Because while some of the stuff that happened to me wasn't my fault, I was kind of like, Well, how did I end up in that situation? Um and it was really like, yeah, it was really lonely, and it was it was yeah, it was pretty dark. But what I've come to know now is from that darkness, like the life I had now has come from that dark place. All the things that I wanted and that visions that I created, and like I was saying earlier in February with the Epstein files, like if any, you know, I think a lot of women, and there's a few men I've spoken to who, if you've ever experienced any sort of sexual assault or violence from men, I think the Epstein files were really triggering. And for me, I ended up back in that dark place, and I was like, I just felt really hopeless, felt really hopeless towards men. I just like lost my faith for a minute. And then at the end of the month, I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, we don't do that. We can't do this. We need hope. We need hope that actually, and then I looked back at my month of February and my work that I'd done, and there's all these examples of like great stuff. So I was working in Germany with a group of people that were from all over the world, and they were like coming together as a team, supporting each other, and they they actually really valued that diversity of thought that came. And then I was um on a course which was all about how we hold space when there's polarized views and we bring people together to kind of have dialogue. And I met these young people that I'm going to Nepal with later this year, and they were really like, can't wait to go and experience a different culture. And I was like, This is all this good stuff, like this is this is the hope. And I was like, we have to hold on to hope. And I think when you're in that, and it's really hard when things are hard, but it's like having to find like whatever small thing to know that it like dark times do end, like the light will come again. And I think that was really key to helping me heal.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

And I think that's really beautiful the way that you that you put that. But going back to what you were saying about um like the caterpillar, the seasons in that way, everything is a cycle, right? It's like everything that happens, nothing is endless. Like if we were constantly in summer, we'd we'd be burn out. We need winter to replenish, to regenerate, to die, to rebirth, and come back again in the spring with a different way. Like the seasons never come the same, do they? One winter's heavy, one's light. Things change, and it is that point of surrendering and surrendering that control. Because actually, we think we've got control, we've got no control, and it's all is everything's an illusion, isn't it? And it's like how you how you still take that step and almost like dive into that dark, that pool of darkness, and what does it have to offer?

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Yeah, diving into the unknown, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Um and if you hadn't um if you hadn't of realized have come to that point of surrender and hope, where do you where do you think you would have been now?

SPEAKER_01 20:56

So I think the other thing that kind of helped me at that time was I'd seen I'd seen people that were permanent victims and like their mindset, and I didn't want to be that. I didn't want to be seen as a victim. I didn't even want to be seen as a survivor, I wanted to be seen as someone that thrived. And it's almost like I didn't really feel like I had an option. There was no option, it's like I can't stay here. And also I think um, you know, I had to find a way because I had to pay my rent, you know, I had to figure out what I was gonna do. I had to find a way to pay my rent and make make money. And um yeah, I just I don't I I don't feel that there was an option, and I and I say that it took many years to get to where I am. Took many years, it took a psychologist, it took a psychotherapist. I've had every holistic therapy under the sun. Um, your favourite actually, do you know what? Two things that really helped me. So initially, I saw a psychologist and had trauma therapy. And that was great, particularly sort of to help me just manage the initial bit. I went through periods where I needed to have sleeping tablets because my nightmares would get so bad. Um, but after the trial, which was in 2016, I had this realization, I was like, this trauma is in my body because I had a lot of physical symptoms, it wasn't just like your mind, I had a lot of physical stuff that would go on, and I was like, I need to get this trauma out of my body, yeah. So I was like, I actually don't think talking to somebody is going to help me. And I didn't know like what and anyway, so I ended up going to see a shaman for two years, and she was she was amazing, she was um American, and she used to be nurse, and she was now shaman, and she was very like maternal. She had this really beautiful maternal Angie, and I'd go and see her, and I can't quite explain what she did. She was doing laser stuff, but she really helped me, and it felt like it was helping stuff shift. But then she sort of said to me, actually, I think you should go to five rhythms. And five rhythms is something that completely I don't think I would be here actually if it wasn't for five rhythms. I think like running definitely helped me, but also running was it's disconnecting though, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Yeah, like you can escape with running.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Whereas I've got quite I've over the years of real I've got an all or nothing personality. So running actually at times I would run. So sometimes running would be for me because inside I felt quite broken. I would be like, let's see if I can just break myself. Because it was a way of the pain that I felt inside running long and run long and hard. Yeah, would like I could deal with the physical pain, right? Because it helped me make sense of the pain I felt inside.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

And I remember talking to the psychologist because I'd I'd basically run loads of miles and I was under-eating, over-training. And that was like a coping strategy. And it, you know, there's far worse coping strategies that could have gone on, but there definitely was a time when it was like, oh, this is yeah, it's too much. Whereas five rhythms, so five rhythms is something, it was a it's like a Gabrielle Roth, she was American, she set it up, and it's you go through these five waves of um I can never remember this like staccato and then chaos, and then you come down to live. So it moves you through these, the music's designed to move you through these things, and you ex move differently in each one. But essentially what it is is it's just this massive, like it can it grounds you and connects you to your body, doesn't it? And it'll just be like and it's just such a beautiful when you're in five rhythm space. I honestly think if everyone did five rhythms, there wouldn't be wars. Honestly, there's just so the energy in a five rhythms room, it's uh like just everyone's just so loving and joyful. Um, and you you know, no one talks, you don't really talk, you just move. And so I went every week, and it was just like, and chaos particularly is just like ah like let rip and dance, and it just allowed me to sort of get this stuff out of my body, and if I was angry, I could stomp it out, and if it was joyful, I was stumped, and and there's actually um I was in Leeds, I lived in Leeds at the time, there's this still take called Christopher Boylan, and uh he ran these these and he was just held the space beautifully, and I go every week for about two years, and um I think for me that I yeah, huge, and I think there was that thing about mind, body, soul connection, yeah, and you have and I I think that's another big thing for me is about our nervous systems and how we take care of ourselves is connecting to our bodies, and and I think you know, I used to joke actually when I was in my twenties, a dancer day keeps the doctor away, but actually I'm increasingly thinking that it's very true. Kitchen discos, yeah, the way forward, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

I mean, oh my god, I think that was like my early 20s, like in London with all my gals, like we'd be, yeah, anyways, one and night, yeah, dancing, dancing. But I think in that way, what music and dancing can connect you to, it helps you start to express emotion and actually to be able to feel emotion, and especially when you think about like a classic music or something like that, there's no words, but you feel from the tone, from the the um instruments that are being used, you get the sense of something and it it stimulates, he feels it deep inside, don't you? And I think I don't know, I don't know about you, but like with a lot of the women that I work with, they're so self-aware, like they know so much about their patterns, they know so much about their triggers, they know exactly why they do what they do, but they can't stop doing it. And a lot of it is because it's stuck in the body, and a lot of it is things that we don't remember, and it's you know, five, ten, fifteen, twenty, I don't know, however old somebody could be, um it's things that's just been stuck and stored, and we've we've just forgotten about, yeah, um, but we don't we don't feel it anymore.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Yeah, and I think um you've got to move like that. I think it's a release, it's huge release, and I I notice it now, like I'm um I think you've got to be present with it, yeah. And like sitting with uncomfortable emotion, no one wants to do it, right? Because it's no and my do you know what my friend says as well? My friend says this, right? She was like, you know, you get certificates, you don't get certificate for this work. No one sort of sits there and goes, you know, how do you explain something? I've just sat in the dark and been dealing with all this icky stuff inside, and like processing it. No one will go, Congratulations, yeah, well done. Here's your certificate. You've done the work to get slow down, um, and it's really difficult, but it's actually really difficult, exhausting, and it's you know, it's really painful, it's really painful. Yeah, and um, you know, before I had PTSD, I used to work with a lot of people that had addiction issues. And um I used to get really frustrated because the system the system isn't designed to help them deal with the pain. Like at the time, there was methadone programs like get them on methadone, because that's a legal form of heroin. And but I was like, when you hear their stories, yeah, to been through unbelievable amounts of stuff, and I'd be like, Yeah, it's no wonder that you are.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

It all comes back to trauma in the end, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Yeah, but there's no there was there wasn't that support to help them kind of deal with it in the right way. Um and yeah, I think it's it's hard, it's really hard. Um, it's not linear, it is really messy, it's really messy, and sometimes you just feel like you take for every step forward you take, you take a couple back, and and then you and then also you go, right? Oh, I think I'm all I think I'm all good now, and then something will come along and side wipe you and like oh god, here we are again.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Yeah, but I guess that's also like the premise in that way of like the five waves somehow is that like things are not linear, nothing ever is, is it? So it goes back to the cycles again, like the cycles don't keep the same, and even when the cycle repeats, it comes back in a in a different way. Yeah, so it's like nothing is ever the same. And I think when you were talking earlier, it made me think of I always say this wrong, um, kitsugi, the Japanese art. Oh, actually, yeah, and I think it's like that beautiful piece of like something smashing, it repairs back with like a beautiful gold thread and uh not thread pin, but it's beautiful again, but it's just in a completely different way. And I think obviously I've never been through PTSD or anything that you have, but in trauma work, in that way, it is about understanding and accepting of yourself that you are you've you've been through something horrendous, but you are still, and I don't mean beautiful like physically, I mean you are beautiful physically, but I mean like you're still beautiful as a person, you're still a whole person, you are just in a you are just different.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Yeah, and I think do you know actually I forgot about Kinsugi. When I found out about that, I was about a year into and it it really I I held on to that actually. I used to have a picture of it on my phone because that was I particularly that was talking about the stage I was trying to accept that I wasn't gonna be the person I was before, and and Kinsugi, and I've shared that actually with other people. I think it is a really beautiful analogy, yeah, and of like healing your cracks, and I think I feel like there's something for me, there's been an ongoing journey of almost becoming more real as a result and being more authentic, yeah, and more honest and more raw.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Um well, I think sometimes like when you the more that you and especially where you've been, the more that you keep leaning into fear, the more you keep leaning into that darkness, you turn around and you think, What the fuck have I got to lose here? And it's like actually, I don't like that. I don't want that in my life, I don't need that. So you can stand up a lot more and be like, Do you know what? Fuck you. No, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Well, also, I think what it made me do, it made me quite brave. So, like, I've always been a bit like, I'll just say yes. So, some people are like, Oh, how have you ended up where you've ended up? And I'm like, honestly, I think it's just because I said yes. And then I sort of say yes, and then I sort of go, Oh shit, what have I said yes to? Um, and like, for example, so one of the uh consultancies I do work for, they use the psychology of laughter and humour in learning and development. And our last year our the we got told we had to do stand-up comedy training, and so I'm oh yeah, that's great, fine. So I got on a course, and then it was during Edinburgh Fringe, and we turn up on day one of the course, and they're like, Oh, right, yeah, so you're gonna do stand-up comedy course at the end, um stand-up comedy gig at the end. It's also gonna be your first Edinburgh Fringe show.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

And I was like, What?

SPEAKER_01 31:31

Um, and actually, like, um, before we did it, I actually had a minor panic attack, had to down a glass of wine. Um, but like that's that's just an example of like I'll just go, Well, yes, what have you got to lose? And even if it doesn't work out, you will have learned something, yeah. Um, and I think probably going to all of that stuff and kind of getting comfortable with fear, and it's not to say I don't feel fear, but when I feel that fear, I sort of will like breathe through it. And um, I was I was actually in the Scottish Mountains the other day, I was talking to my friend about it, and I was like, I still feel fear, but I think because I've been exposed to quite a lot of it, I kind of I'll recognise it and I'll go, okay, this means I'm like out of my comfort zone, I'll just breathe, but I also have a bit of a mantra, it sounds a bit naf, but I sort of say, Oh, you know, I'm a badass, I'm Wonder Woman. Because I also know that when you're in fear, you can freeze.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

So if I tell myself something positive, that will help me keep going. Um sorry, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

I'm gonna have to stop you again. Say that again. We need to tell you.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

I'm a badass, I'm Wonder Woman. Um, and actually that's got me through some ultras as well. I remember one ultra, like literally the last five miles, I was just like, I'm Wonder Woman, I'm Wonder Woman, I can do this, I'm Wonder Woman, I can and it's um I mean you literally are you've got the hair and everything. Um, and so I think you know, and actually, when I look back, all that horrible stuff I went through, like I said, I draw strength from it now. It's like, yeah, if you can go through, if you can go through that and come out the other side, like this is your choosing to do this. Yeah, you didn't get a choice in that, you have to deal with it. And I think you know, every time, and and women, you know, and actually talking about turn transforming pain into power and purpose, women are the masters of it. When you give birth, like there is no greater transform transformative experience, and you know, I think the depth of strength that women have is just like untold, like it's we don't even know the potential, you know, like the last 50 years, women have more rights and look at the stuff that they're achieving, and I think yeah, this the strength that women have is unbounded. And I always come back to so in in shaman traditions, uh earth and water is feminine, and fire and sky is so far the sky from fire. And for me, I love the ocean, right? You look at the ocean, it's just like it terrifies me, but I'm in awe of it at the same time. And if you've seen an ocean in a storm, I always think that's the strength that resides in all women, yeah. And and when you think like that, it's like, well, what what's possible if we just and I think also like women supporting each other, and and and that's the other thing, actually. My friends, I used when I didn't trust anybody, there's a couple of friends, I called them my circle of trust. And uh there's like a couple of friends in particular that I would have to get a bit emotional about it. Yeah, I wouldn't be here. They pick me up off the floor. And um Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

We need that, don't we? We need we need that group of people around us that we know are gonna be the ones who are gonna be there to for whatever it is, even if you can't speak for six hours and you're just gonna I'm thinking of myself, don't say anything for six hours, you're just gonna sit and sob in a chair, and but just knowing that somebody is there who cares for you, loves you, wants the very best for you. Yeah, that's the best place to yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

My female friends have just um yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be where I am. I genuinely don't think I would be where I am today without them. They've just um, you know, and so like we're so different. Me and some of my my closest friends, we couldn't be more different, and they'll just be like, What are you doing now? But they've still, you know, we've got each other's back.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Um and then they're also the ones that say to you, go Louisa, okay, slow down Louisa. Yeah. And again, in that way, it's like they're they're there as a they're they're your they're your I don't know why I'm thinking of a gear stick in a car, like they're like your support network that are are just gonna be there for whatever stage is going on, whatever is happening, they're just there for you.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Do you know what I sometimes say actually the greatest loves of my life, they are my female friends. Yeah, like and and and I sort of we all would joke that we'll all be old together, and um I'll be the one trying to get you know, climbing out the old people's home, trying to get them to come with me when I run away. Um but yeah, I think that's the greatest, yeah, they are the loves of my life, if I'm honest, my female friends, and I don't know where I'd be without them. You know, it's funny, one of my friends doesn't she doesn't live near me, but we voice note every day, and we know the ins and in in a in a workings of each other's minds and what's going on, and there's a real beauty to that. And I think as a woman, I'm so that makes me so grateful to be a woman if those female friendships that we have and those connections and how we can talk and no holes barred, like yeah, I think I think sometimes it's just not it's not celebrated enough in that way, is it?

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Like, I see um older generations where sometimes I don't know, people have got married, they've had kids and stuff like that, and maybe I don't know also any generation doesn't matter, and actually you get so consumed with where you are that you lose that connection to your your female friends, to whatever. But those it that's your nourishment that is like your literal sort of like feeding ground, like that nourishment of support, of strength, of growth. And also, just quite frankly, sorry Simon, men die earlier, so you know you need your you need your good females around you because who else is gonna be there? So it's it is it's so so so so important.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, friendships, friendships are community, yeah, community, yeah. Um and actually I that one I'll share this. I moved to Cumbria four years ago, um, which for me was like a fresh start. Like everyone here knew me as a person I was here.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Yeah, it gives you that sense of what you were saying earlier of like of who you are, not not who you'd be, where you'd been.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

And and it was interesting because I'd read a lot about community and healing, and and for the last I think partly connected to the trauma, I'd worked away for probably the last six years of working in Leeds of living in Leeds. And I think that was a conscious decision of I just want to be out, I don't want to be seen, I just want to be tucked away working. Um but I was kind of quite disconnected, and if I wasn't, I didn't realise until I moved to Cumbria really quite how lonely I'd been. And I moved to Cumberland and just the community here. And um, that for me was very healing, like just the incredible community, and how everyone just welcomed you in and open arms, and like I said, I didn't realise how lonely I'd been. Like we work in a way, you're just in a different hotel room every night. Everything is really glamorous, it's really not just in different hotels on your own. No, it's no and uh and I think I'd just sort of I think almost hit because I didn't like Leeds was where everything happened, and I think I kind of hit a bit and I came here, and just the level of like acceptance and people accepting me for who I was and just making me feel part of something. It feels like you could breathe, yeah. And you know, like now I love it. Like if I've been away for work, I've come back, I'll be insane. You know, you can you'll be insane for you thinking you're just gonna go quietly around and you can't like you always bump into somebody, but for me, that's something really beautiful about that, and that when you felt quite alone in the world to then come where you were in a community where there's always somebody there, yeah, to help you, and we help each other. That was that was really I almost felt like that was the final part of my healing puzzle, really.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Um, and creating that for yourself, you gave yourself you gave that uh sorry, you gave yourself that this life, you gave yourself this start, and you've created you've created that community for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Yeah, I really well think it was people that were here, um, and they don't even I don't think that most of them even realise like what it did for me um and still does for me, like it's it's really special. Yeah, I feel I do feel quite when it's funny, isn't it? I can talk about all this horrible stuff when it comes to people, like I think when you've lost trust in yourself and you've lost trust, the ability to trust other people, and your world's been really dark, when you come through the other side, I think one you appreciate things much, much more. And that's the other thing. Like, like I sit there now and I'm like, God, this is my life. Like, I'm so grateful. And I don't think I'd appreciate it as much if I've been through that, but to be in a place where you just are surrounded by just people that just care about you and you care about them, and you know, you don't even need to have it's not like deep meaningful, you know, like I go to the coffee shop, they're like, Oh, I haven't seen you for a while, how are you? And just that acceptance of who you are when they just completely accept you for who you are, is and you know that if somebody's asking, How are you?

SPEAKER_00 40:45

They genuinely want to know, not like, yeah, good, thanks, how are you? Yeah, we're great, busy, busy. See you later, like on you go. And I genuinely want to know.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

And I think also it was that they see me for who I am now, yeah. And they don't know me for sort of everything that's gone past. But it's um, yeah, I feel I mean, I feel very grateful to Cumberland sort of the community that I found here. It's been like the best thing I ever did was move to Cumbria, and I absolutely adore it. Um and yeah, it's kind of like I said, when I turned 40, I was like, wow, like I I did it. It took a long time, quite a lot of twists and turns, and but I think sorry, go on. I was just saying, and you know, but the stuff that I envisioned and wrote down. Yeah, it's weird actually. I found some old journals a couple of years ago, and I was like, oh yeah, oh shit. That was it. Um and yeah, you know, I say when I work with graduates, I'm like, you've got to understand nothing's built overnight, you've it's chipping away and chipping away and chipping away and chipping away, and you'll get there.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

And and I think the other thing is what may take one person one year, may take someone else ten years. And I think that's you know, it's your road.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Yeah, it's like accepting that everybody is you're on your own individual path, but everyone's unique, and what you think you want now in one year's time, six months' time, even you might not even want that same thing because we're all constantly changing and evolving, aren't we? So it's like you change your wants and needs change and evolve in in that way as well.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Yeah, and I think also it's understanding that everything gets you here. Yeah. And like earlier this year, I kind of had a little bit of a when I was in the February in the dark place and the hopeless one of the other realizations was you know what, yeah, been through some hard stuff, but it all brought me here. It all brought me here. So actually, as much as it was rubbish and horrible and messy and dark, that was all part of the process to get me here where I'm like, yeah, this is great, this is good. Um but we can't see that when we're in the midst of it. That's where the sort of kind of surrender and have that hope that you can get better.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

Yeah, I love that because it is literally that opposite. It's like surrendering to the process, surrendering to what's going on there. And I really am a firm believer that I don't think we don't obviously different in your case, but like we don't take huge leaps forward in trust or something to go backwards, we always end up moving forwards because, like you just said, what tools we had then got us to where we were, but we evolve and change, and it's almost like we keep up skilling, so we keep changing, we keep up skilling, and we keep coming at things from a different perspective. And if we accept that and accept that's the process, then we'll just always keep moving forwards. But it's it's the fear, isn't it? Yeah. So what um what's the things that you tell yourself on a day when you're thinking, I just need to get back in bed, and I'm not I'm not facing this, I'm not up to it today. Um, what do I tell myself? I'm Wonder Woman.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

Yeah. I'm a badass, I'm a Wonder Woman. No, what do I say? Um, I mean, I have like lots of little quotes from my house, you know, uh that kind of help me get through. And I mean sometimes when it's this actually this has helped me. So Mel Robbins came up with this 54321 theory. Oh yeah, yeah. And quite a few years ago, when I was like, I can't get out of bed, I was like, 5-4-3-2-1. Did actually help me get out of bed? Um and I think for me, it's just so I do what I'm grateful for every every day. I've done it religiously for years. I just start the day with three things I'm grateful for. Um and that really helps me because it's like there's always something to be grateful for, even if it's like really simple, like I've got clothes and a bit of food in my cupboard. It's like that that definitely helps me. Um and the other thing is like a bit of movement. So do you know what actually what really um really helps me when I'm really struggling? A bit of music. So I have this, you know, Happy Feet. Happy Feet, they have a heart song.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

Penguins shouldn't be exclusive to penguins. Human beings need a heart song. So I go through phases, I love my music, always have music on. So um that's a good thing. I'll have like a song of the moment, kitchen disco, and I guarantee that will help shift something in me. Um, and actually, there's times when I'll be like, I haven't danced. I haven't danced for a while. I need to dance, and then I for dance and I feel and I feel feel better. Um, and I think for me, yeah, I think that moving just shifting, because I you know, I'm very lucky to live in Cumberland, have a nice little village, even just getting out of the house for five minutes and going for a walk, yeah. Just those simple things.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

It's like a change of scenery, it's just changing your perspective, isn't it? Like moving it changing step, yeah. Yeah. And finally, um what would Louisa from 2015 what would she have to say to you today, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Um I think she'd be very proud of herself. Yeah, I think she'd be like, yeah, you did it. Yeah, yeah. I did I don't think she'd quite believe I don't think she'd quite believe that she do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

But well you bloody, of God, you're gonna rent me quite now. Well you bloody have, and we're in 2026, and you're absolutely listening to the plans that you've got coming up earlier. I mean, you are literally, you're just getting started.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Yeah, yeah. Definitely. Do you know what? When someone so when I turned 40, someone said to me, You're middle aged. And I was like, No, I'm not middle-aged, I'm entering my second act, it's just beginning. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

And I think now it's like it almost comes back to that societal generational thing as well, doesn't it? Of like what 40 used to look like. We last year, I not accidentally, it was on TV, um came across um Shirley Valentine, and I I couldn't believe it when she was like, I'm 42, and I'm like, Oh my god, you look like you're 72. No offense, lady who plays Shirley Valentine, but she looks so old, and I think it's because that's what maybe 40, 41, two-year-old people look like in in that time, but it's things have changed. I mean, we're gonna be working so we're well into our 70s, so in that way, life life has changed, isn't it? Like 40 is 30, 50 is 40, and women are starting businesses in their mid-40s at a rate of knots. Like, we are the biggest expanding demographic in the in the country, so yeah, you are absolutely just getting started.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

And also, the other thing I want to say is um when I turned 40, someone said, Welcome to your wisdom years, and then I've added in your freedom years, and my friend reminded me, said to me it's your naughty 40s. And the other the other last year I was like, I've not been that naughty. How can I be more naughty in my 40s? And I think there's a liberation, right? Because as you get older, you don't really like I feel like I care less and I'm less tolerant of things I used to be. But yeah, every time one of my friends turned 40, I'm like, freedom and wisdom years.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

Yeah, love it. Yeah, do you ever look back um at photos of you in in your 20s and you think, fuck, what the hell was I worried about? I was fucking hot and tiny, and it's like this. I just thought I wanted to always be small and small recently.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

So I was going through some of my old USB, I was trying to find um a document anyway. It ended up in like this this black hole. I found all my old USB sticks with my party, you know, when you had digital cameras and like partying. And I I looked at myself and I was like, I used to like I was always thought I was fat, and I was looking at myself, um, Louisa, what what? What? Um, and yeah, you and never you do, you never feel good enough. And I and I looked at them at the photos and I was like, right, you need to just like celebrate your body, like we're not judging, we're not doing this anymore. But it was also really funny to look back and um just I mean, I don't know that I'd go if I could go back with the knowledge and wisdom I have now, but I don't think I'd go back to being in my 20s again. No, um, and just you know, the wanting to please everybody and the insecurities, and oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

It's so funny, isn't it? Because like there's all the what I'm coming to realise more and more now is like there's all of these cliches, like you know, you know, maybe women in our 40s, like we tell women in the 20s now, like, oh don't think this, you know, definitely celebrate yourself now, and you like I could god I can't even think now, but there's so many cliches that I feel that come back on a daily basis now, and I'm just like, but they're so true, and we just think they're really cheesy nonsense, but they're not like they're literal gold nuggets that we should absolutely be hoovering up and yeah, taking on board.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

It's a beauty of life experience, isn't it? Yes, you and as you you know is they're all life stages, aren't they? And you kind of have to go, it's all you always like, Michelle Obama says, we're always in a state of becoming, and it's kind of true, isn't it? And you can't get here without going through that. No, that's all part of the process, yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

Until it's okay hearing somebody else saying something, but until you've actually been through it and witnessed it yourself and felt it, you you don't believe it, and you can understand it, but you don't know it, you don't feel it. So yeah, yeah. Oh Louisa, thank you so so much. That's been incredible. Um, yeah, what a journey and what a story. I'm excited to see what you're gonna uh what's gonna unfold for you over the next year. Some amazing plans. So thank you so much. Wow, what an incredible episode and uh journey and story to hear. Um that fear, surrender, hope. And I think the biggest thing that I took from Louisa's story, I loved the line, nothing is permanent, no state is ever permanent. And if we can accept that nothing is permanent, and then when we sit, we can move through something and something else comes at the end, it feels less scary. And I started I started thinking about my own surrender, and it was a word that came up a lot on the live recording, as you heard, and it got me reflecting on yeah, what that is for me. And I realized it was about control, how much we try to control everything, how I used to micromanage every little aspect of my life, and actually, what it really boiled down to was about perfection or the illusion of perfection. I've got my shit together, I'm capable, I can do everything, no problem, jazz hands, give me a broom, and I can broom the floor as well. I'm perfect, but really, deep, deep down, it was about proving I'm enough, I can do this. And I was so tightly wound up, I was anxious, I wasn't sleeping, super thin, running on nervous energy, stuck in fight, flight, fight or flight, trying to control everything. No ball could drop. If a ball dropped, it would be the end. Like Jesus, what would happen? And it cost me so much. Top of the list, my health. I was thin, my period stopped, I had disordered eating, I felt like a bag of nerves. And until I started to slow down and find the connection back to myself and my own wisdom, I found that I could start to let those balls drop. And you know what? When I did that, nothing changed, nothing broke, and I was alright. And I think that's the point, that's the thing, that is the story in itself, isn't it? Sitting with those deep, dark emotions, that fear, the things that are coming up, the trauma, whatever that is for you, it's a moment and it will pass. Join me next week where I will be talking to another incredible lady about her journey. Big zoo!