The Murder of Mary Morris

It starts with a normal morning in Houston, Texas.
An early morning, a goodbye. A drive to work. A day that should’ve been completely routine.

Until it isn’t.

When one woman disappears, her family does what anyone would do — they start searching. Driving her usual route. Calling anyone who might have seen her. Trying to find even the smallest clue.

But as the hours pass, the silence becomes harder to explain.

And when answers finally begin to surface… they don’t bring clarity — they bring more questions.

Because this isn’t just a disappearance.

It’s the beginning of a case that gets stranger, more confusing, and more unsettling with every new detail.

And trust us… you won’t see where this is going.

To see more about this case, as well as the sources used to create this episode, visit our Blog Here.

Transcript

Mary Morris - Additional 2

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Hi, welcome to Crime Cluis. We're your hosts. I'm Jenna and I'm Lara. Today I have a doozy of a case for you. In fact, the story that I have for you today honestly sounds too strange to be true. It involves two violent murders that happened just three days apart in the Houston area. There's a mysterious 911 call, a little bit of mistaken identity, and one huge coincidence tying it all together. This case is wild. It's the kind that will make you question everything you think you know about coincidence and fate. This is the murder of Mary Morris.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Didn't you say there were two murders? Were we just saying a singular one?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yes, but let's start with the murder of Mary Morris and I promise to explain both. Okay. I'm excited for this one. Sounds very interesting. It's one I heard a long, long time ago and had to come back to find it, research it, because it really does sound too wild to be true. Let's rewind to Thursday, October 12th, 2000. It's still dark outside. That early, quiet kind of morning where the world feels half asleep and everything feels normal.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

That kind of morning when you're just on autopilot. Exactly. Every morning lately. I'm so glad it's getting lighter outside in the morning and I'm not taking my son to the bus in the middle of the night. Yes. Oh, I really like that it's staying light a little later.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Staying light a little earlier.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

But when it's still dark, especially like October, you just feel like you're still sleeping sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Yes, when you have to leave early. That's how Mary Morris was feeling that morning. She was a 48-year-old woman living in the Houston area. She was in a community near Baytown, Texas. Mary Lou Morris was a loan officer who's been with the same bank for years, over 15 years actually, at this point. She's getting ready for work, like she's done countless times. She worked at a Chase Bank ranch across town on the northwest side. It was quite a commute that she had. Where they lived, though, they were able to have horses and she could garden and plant flowers. So it was worth it. That day she left home before 6 a.m. to head to work. She was possibly planning to stop for gas on the way. Her husband Jay walked her to the car that morning, which is sweet. He kissed her goodbye, watched her pull out of their driveway around 6 a.m., heading towards her usual gas station. Everything seemed completely normal. She didn't normally leave that early, but she was working on a special project and had to get into work to get some extra things done. But I want you to picture this because it matters. It's not rushed, not tense, not weird. This isn't a couple that's in a fight or having a dramatic morning. It's routine. It's married life normal. She leaves for work early and Jay watches her pull away.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

That tiny moment where later you're like, if I'd known, maybe I would have held on longer.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Uh tugs at my heart. Me too. It's that exact moment. These two have only been married for about five years. They're both on their second marriage, and they're really trying to hold on to that newlywed feeling as long as possible. They are a happy couple, they enjoy their time together, but they also make the most out of communicating each day. Anyways, Mary heads out towards what should be completely normal workday, even if it does start earlier than normal. Jay back in the house, morning moves on. He does something that he always does. He tries to call her. This was their normal. They usually talked several times a day. And not because, you know, something weird, like they were suspicious of each other, not because they were clingy, just because that was their marriage. That was their rhythm.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

You know, just calling each other, hey, what's for dinner? How's your morning? Did you make it to work? I always like to make sure my husband makes it in if he's going to work because you never know what's going to happen. Yeah. I like those kind of exchanges. It's nice that he calls her every day.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

It is nice. It's the tiny life admin calls. And also, I just kind of like you and I want to talk to you type of call. Yeah, for sure. But this day, every call Jay makes goes to voicemail over and over. And at first, that might not feel like a full-blown panic moment. It is 2000. People miss calls, people are in meetings, people drive through dead zones. What starts to change the temperature in the room is this. Mary is reliable, like reliable, reliable. Then sometime after 2 p.m., the phone rings at the house. It's Mary's supervisor from work calling, asking for Mary. And this is the part that makes my stomach drop. The supervisor doesn't identify herself right away. It's more like, hey, is Mary there? So Jay does what a normal spouse would do. He casually says something like, Oh, no, she's at work. Yeah, because why wouldn't she be? He saw her go. She was on her way. Exactly. Yeah. In Jay's mind, this is still a normal day with a slightly annoying. Why haven't I been able to chat with her pibe? But then the supervisor clarifies no, I'm at work and Mary isn't here. She never showed up. Jay later describes that moment so simply. He says he got that call and found out she wasn't at work, and that's when he knew something immediately was wrong. She wouldn't have missed work. She left early to go to work because she had things she needed to get done that day.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

That's such an important switch from oh, maybe her phone died or she's in a meeting or something to this is not like her.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Yes. It's the floor dropping out because now you have two facts sitting next to each other that don't belong together. Mary hasn't been answering all day. Also, Mary never arrived at work. And suddenly Jay isn't just trying to get a hold of his wife. He's realizing she's missing. What do you do in that moment? You start replaying the morning, I'm sure, like security footage. Did she seem tired? Did she say anything weird? Did she mention stopping anywhere? You start thinking of routes, timing, gas station, traffic, car breakdowns. And in 2000, you don't have my iPhone, you don't have location sharing, you don't have a ring camera clip showing which direction the car went. You just have silence.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

That's so scary. My mind would immediately go to a car accident. Like I need to start calling the hospitals. That's where my mind would go.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Mine too, because you watched her leave. It's not like you were still asleep and you weren't sure what her plans were that day. It's not like it's normal to not talk to her or have her miss work randomly. That's the moment this day shifts from she isn't answering to gut level certainty. This isn't her phone not working. This isn't a misunderstanding. This is wrong. From here, everything escalates fast.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Yeah, he must have been freaking out at this point. I know I would be.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Yeah, he was. Jay started calling around and quickly confirmed Mary never arrived at the bank at all that day. So he immediately contacted the police to report Mary missing. He also got in touch with Mary's daughter, which is his stepdaughter. Her name is Marilyn, to help figure out what could have happened. They retraced Mary's typical route in their minds. And get this, they discovered that morning Mary had forgotten her cell phone at home.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

That's terrible.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Mary forgetting her phone was unusual and just really unfortunate timing. It meant she had no way to call for help if she had car trouble. And also, that might have been a little bit comforting if she had car trouble, if something happened, that could be the reason that she didn't reach out. By late afternoon on October 12th, Jay is filling out a missing person report around 5 p.m. And police are notified to be on the lookout for Mary or her car.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

That's so terrible because it's those what if questions. What if she had taken her phone? Would that have changed the outcome? Yeah. So sad.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

So sad. Once Jay realizes that Mary never made it to work, everything shifted from confusing to urgent. Jay and Mary's daughter get in the car together and start driving Mary's normal route to work. That's something so many families in missing person cases end up doing. They're scanning everything, every shoulder of the road, every ditch, every parking lot, every gas station. You're just looking for something that doesn't belong.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Have they tried calling any of the hospitals in the area or they anything like that? Because I would think if she had car trouble, eventually she would have got somewhere where she could have been helped and give them a call. Or maybe she's stranded somewhere still, and that's why they're out looking. Definitely be calling all the hospitals for Jane Doe's or anything if she's in a bad situation.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Yes. Every mile they drive, every intersection they pass, every place she should be, she isn't there.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

That silence would get so much louder every minute you drove, and just your heart would drop every second. So terribly.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

The longer you don't find anything, the more wrong it feels. Because at first you're looking for something small. Like we said, the flat tire, maybe a car accident, her standing next to the car waving you down. But as time passes, you start realizing you're not just looking for a minor inconvenience. You're looking for anything, any sign she was here, any sign she's okay. And they don't find anything out of place. No stalled car, no accident, no sign she ever made it along that route at all. That's almost worse. That means she didn't even get close to work. Mm-hmm. Exactly. And this is one of those moments where families later say that's when the fear really started. Because if she didn't make it to work and she's not along her normal drive, then something had to have happened beyond her control. And at this point, they still have no idea how bad it really is. So now we're moving into the part of the story that honestly makes my stomach hurt because this is where hope starts getting replaced with dread. At some point later that day, after Jay has reported Mary missing, after they've driven her normal route, after they haven't found anything, Mary's daughter gets a phone call, not from police, but from her biological dad, Mary's ex-husband. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

So even people outside the house are starting to hear things.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Yeah. And that alone is terrifying. Before the family really fully understood what was happening, information's already moving. Her dad tells her that at first, this might not sound like confirmation of anything, but it does immediately feel wrong. He said that there was a report of a car on fire nearby. And the word nearby is what sticks because it's not just a car fire somewhere in Houston. It's pretty close to where they live. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

And your brain has to be going to that. Is it random? Is this connected? Like, why are you calling me about this? And I've seen cars on fire on the road before, and it's just what it is. They're there working on it, but why are you calling me about this?

SPEAKER_00 12:54

You know? Exactly. So Mary's daughter does what I think a lot of people would do. She goes to where the car fire was reported. And when she gets there, there are emergency responders, there are police, there is activity, but she can't get any answers. She asks them, What kind of car is it? Do you know who it's registered to? Could it possibly be her mom? And they won't tell her not yet. Not until they're sure, not until they follow procedure, and not until they confirm the identity of whoever's car this is.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Which logically that makes sense and through protocols and everything, but I'm sure that just felt like torture for her. Yes. How old is her daughter?

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Twenties, early 20s. Okay. From Marilyn's perspective, she's standing there looking at this scene, thinking, please just tell me it's not her. But instead, they basically tell her she needs to leave. She needs to go home. They'll contact them once they know more. And imagine that drive home because now you're not driving looking for a stalled car. You're driving knowing there is a car, a burned one, and no one will confirm if it's hers or not.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

That waiting period must have just felt like a lifetime. That's horrible. And that drive home, your thoughts are just spinning. It's terrible.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Yes. And this is where time in trauma does that weird thing. Minutes feel like hours. Every phone buzz makes your heart jump. And now the house isn't just worried. The house is holding its breath, waiting for the knock, waiting for the call, waiting for someone to confirm the thing nobody wants confirmed. And at this point, they still don't know. They don't know if it's her car. They don't know if they should be looking somewhere else or trying to do something else. But the story is already starting to turn into something darker than a missing person case. Now, on the scene, the car that was found was unrecognizable. But investigators identified it by the license plate and the VIN. It was Mary's car. It was a Chevy Lumina. This was found only about three miles from Mary's house. But crucially, it was in the opposite direction from her route to work. It was an isolated area like down a dirt path near a drainage ditch. So when Marilyn was there looking at it from as close as she could get with all of the police activity, she couldn't even see it. It's the kind of spot you wouldn't drive into by accident.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

And this isn't, because I know you said she was going to the gas station. Was the gas station on her route to work? This wasn't by that area.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Nope. Inside the vehicle, they find a body burned so badly that they couldn't immediately confirm if it was Mary. They had to use tooth fragments and dental records to officially identify her remains, which took a couple of days. But sadly, yes, it was Mary Henderson Morris.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

That's absolutely horrific. Someone burned her car. They didn't find like anything wrong with the car that it caught on fire or something. Like it wasn't crashed into something. It was just sitting in this spot.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Yeah, it wasn't a crash that they could tell to detectives. They said it definitely felt deliberate. The ones that were on the scene had no doubt it was a murder. They know the car doesn't just drive itself into the woods and catch on fire with a body in it and the placement, how fast and how hot it burned. One Harris County detective later said there was no question at all, this was a murder. But the problem was the fire destroyed a lot of potential evidence. The body was so badly burned that the medical examiner couldn't even determine how Mary was killed, whether she was shot or strangled or something before the car was set on fire. It was impossible to tell from her remains due to the damage. That's terrible. So sad. Intriguingly, though, Mary's wedding ring was missing from her body and never found at this scene. Other than that, there were no obvious valuables taken. Her purse and other personal items were destroyed in the fire. Robbery didn't seem to be the motive. In fact, nothing obvious was missing except that ring.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Kind of a weird, interesting detail. The missing wedding ring, but no robbery. Could have been a trophy typing, like taking something to remember a victim by.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

And they had nothing. The whole situation was terrifying. A random killer on the loose in Houston targeting women in the early morning hours. People just didn't know what to think.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

That must have been so scary and made everyone in the area so uneasy. It's like a broad daylight abduction and murder with no motive. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

That's super scary.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

I hate those ones. I know me too. People were on edge, and for a few days, they were really hoping that the police would turn up leads. But then just when everyone thought one murder was bad enough, the case took a really strange turn. Three days later, there was another murder. And Lara, this is where things go from strange to absolutely bizarre. Oh, great. I have a bad feeling about this. On October 16th, Marilyn and all of Marilyn's family held a funeral and a memorial for Mary. When her remains had been given from the medical examiner to Marilyn, they had forgotten to give her some of the jewelry that had been found with Mary.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

So she had other jewelry on that they didn't take. They only took her wedding ring. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

That's another reason. Because even if her whole purse is burned up and you can't tell if they took cash or whatever, that's pretty telling that there's more jewelry that they left. Yeah, for sure. Marilyn calls the Emmy to request to come and get her mother's jewelry. The Emmy tells Marilyn, you can get that when we release Mary's remains to you. But didn't you say that they already had the funeral?

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Like Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

So Marilyn is confused. She tells the Emmy, No, I already did that. We already had the funeral. The Emmy is like, no. I have Mary Morris's remains here. So, did they give her the wrong remains? Fortunately, no. But Marilyn was probably wondering that too. After a little bit of back and forth, they realized this is a different Mary Morris, age 39, from the same county, who was murdered three days after Mary, Marilyn's mom.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Oh wow. Okay, that's a coincidence or something else that's wild. Uh, I told you this case is wild.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

The second Mary, I'll call her Mary McGuinness to keep them straight, had a different life story. She was 39. She was a nurse practitioner who managed several clinics for a big industrial company in Houston. She was described by her loved ones as incredibly hardworking and joyful. Her sister Stephanie said, Mary was like an angel, always happy, always making people laugh. She was one of those people who'd work 14-hour days and still be ready to help if someone called her in on a weekend. She was a dedicated medical professional. She had a lot of friends, and she was a very caring person.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Mary McGuinness feels like a stupid hitman one where they get a name and murder the wrong person.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

It does feel that way, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Yeah, it sure does.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Mary McGuinness was married to a man named Mike Morris, and they had a teenage daughter who was about 16 years old in 2000. The family had moved to Houston from West Virginia a couple of years earlier for Mary's job opportunity. But unfortunately, not everything was perfect in her life. Behind the scenes, Mary had been dealing with some troubles both at work and in her marriage. First at work, she got along with almost all of her coworkers, but there was one colleague who had started to become a serious problem. There was a male nurse who worked under her. Let's call him Dwayne. For whatever reason, Dwayne had issues with Mary's authority. He would challenge her, try to undermine her in front of others, and even went to their bosses to complain about her. It was becoming a hostile situation, and Mary was beginning to grow afraid of this guy. Did she think he was gonna hurt her? Yes, she actually did. Mary confided in her close friend and co-worker, a woman named Lori, about this. And Lori later said that Mary told her, I'm afraid of this person I work with. And Lori had asked that same question, do you really think that he could hurt you? And Mary had responded, Yes, I do. And I think he could be capable of worse.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

That's super chilling. If she thought he could hurt her or do worse, and she ends up dead.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

That's terrifying. It's really an ominous way to put it because hurt me and do worse. There's not much worse than hurting someone besides murder. It gets worse not long before her death. Mary stumbled on something disturbing at work. One evening she stopped by her office after hours to pick up some papers and found her office in disarray, like someone had been messing with all of her stuff. Picture frames on her desk were turned around, items were moved on her colleague's desk, who happened to be this male nurse. Someone had scrawled the words death to her on a calendar. Mary believed that was directed at her, basically a threat to her.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

This was written on her colleague's desk calendar, not hers, right? Yeah, right there. That is subtle.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Large enough that she could easily spot it from her own desk. That's so weird that someone would write that on someone else's desk, like directed to her. That's super odd. Yeah. Mary was really shaken up by this. She went home that night extremely upset and told her husband Mike about it. She was so frightened that she asked Mike to get her a gun for protection. Well.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

And this is a nurse practitioner, not someone who would carry normally a gun at work, I would assume.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Exactly. Which shows how scared she was. Mike did agree to help. He took a handgun he owned. It was actually his gun, but he gave it to her to keep with her. He went over handling and usage of it with Mary. Then at her request, he placed it in her car, hidden under the driver's seat. This all was happening about two weeks before the murder. From that point on, Mary McGuinness was carrying a gun for safety. Everyone close to her knew she was worried about this coworker. In fact, Mary even talked about possibly quitting her job or maybe taking further up action, like HR, police, something. But ultimately, she liked her job. She liked the other people she worked with, so she stayed, hoping things would cool down. Now, aside from the work drama, Mary's marriage to Mike was also reportedly on rocky ground. They've been married 17 years, but after moving to Houston, they had started having problems. There were rumors that Mary might have been getting a little too close with a male friend, leading Mike to suspect an affair. Mike confronted both Mary and that friend about it. According to Mike, they denied anything inappropriate, and he said he believed them, but it definitely led to tension. Now, one more piece of this: Mary had a fairly large life insurance policy through her job, about$700,000, which would be worth a lot more now, with Mike as the beneficiary. So if you're listing possible motives people might have had, we have an angry coworker and a husband who might have been jealous or had financial motives. These are exactly the kind of things investigators pay attention to later on, which we'll get into.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

So this Mary had troublesome coworkers that she feared enough to carry a gun and marital strain with money at stake. Definitely some red flags popping up around her, not the other Mary, but this one for sure.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

For sure. Now let's talk about October 15th, 2000. This is the day that Mary McGuinness Morris was killed. It was a Sunday. Mary had plans to spend that day running errands, which was pretty normal for her Sundays. She actually went into one of her clinics briefly that morning to finish up some work and to give her friend Lori a flu shot. Lori met Mary at the clinic, got her shot, and later said that Mary seemed fine that day when they had met up in good spirits. Mary mentioned she'd probably stay at the clinic just a couple hours to wrap up some things. Then she was going to run a few errands and head home to make dinner. Sometime in the early afternoon, Mary left the clinic and went to the pharmacy, specifically an Eckert drugstore. And for those who don't remember or didn't live in the area, Eckert was a pharmacy chain back then. Very year 2005, because they don't exist anymore. This one was near the intersection of U.S. Highway 290 and West Little York Road, which is on the northwest side of Houston. While at the store, something happened that made Mary extremely uneasy. Around 5:15 p.m., Mary called her friend Lori from the store and she sounded panicked. She told Lori that there was someone in the store who was, quote, giving her the reefs. Mary didn't get into a lot of detail on the phone. I'm not sure if she was trying to be discreet, but she clearly felt threatened just by this person's presence. Mary said she thought she recognized this person from some connection to that problematic coworker at work.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Oh wow, that's really creepy. So she's got this gut feeling someone's creeping her out, thinking it's through someone who hates her at work. Yeah, it's not a good sign.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

No. Mary literally tells Lori something to the effect of, I saw somebody here. They gave me the creeps. I think I've met them through this coworker, which is super scary. It's like running into a potential enemy outside of work, unexpected, in a place you are not prepared for that. Lori was concerned and advised Mary to get somewhere safe. Mary said she was going to leave the store immediately, go back to the office just briefly to log off her computer and then head straight home. She didn't explain why she wanted to pop back into the office to log off. Maybe in that moment she realized she left something open. Maybe she just wanted to go somewhere she felt secure for a minute, but she did plan to get home ASAP.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

It doesn't sound like a good choice to go somewhere that's closed and you're gonna go by yourself. Are they is the clinic open on Sundays or was she doesn't seem like it? I wouldn't think so. That doesn't seem like the best option when you're scared of someone who's there with you. I I would say call the police and stay there, go to the pharmacy or go to a store employee and ask them to stay with you and call the police. That's good advice. And that is what I would have said as well.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Don't leave and go to the empty clinic that's closed. Right. Not alone. Alone. Yes. Lori had responded, okay, call me later and let me know you're okay. They hung up and the call ended around 5.25 p.m. Did she ever make it home, or did they know if she ever made it back to the clinic even? We know she didn't make it home. I don't believe she made it to the clinic either. Within 12 minutes of saying goodbye to Lori, at approximately 5:37 p.m., Mary McGuinness dialed 911 from her cell phone. This was an emergency call made from her car. And based on everything we know, this call is absolutely terrifying. The police have never publicly released the full 911 recording, but they have described it as, quote, extremely disturbing.

SPEAKER_02 32:37

Mary was, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

She was essentially frantic and begging for help. At some point during the call, it appears her attacker ambushed her while she was on the line with 911. Listeners like dispatchers and then investigators who reviewed it have said that it made their blood run cold just hearing this call. We don't know exactly what was said, but they heard sounds of a struggle. Possibly Mary screaming or pleading for help. And then the call abruptly ending as something happened. It's truly the stuff of nightmares.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

That is absolutely terrifying. Did 911 get anyone out to her location at that time? Were they able to find out where she was?

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Unfortunately, no. In 2000, being on a cell phone, the geolocation was not nearly as precise or quick as it is today. It wasn't like now or dispatched might instantly see a GPS stop for you. By the time responders were searching, Mary was already gone. She didn't come home that night. Her husband Mike started worrying when evening came and Mary wasn't back. He tried calling her cell phone and got no answer. Eventually, he contacted authorities to report her missing. Tragically, Mary McGuinness's body was discovered the next morning on October 16th. A tow truck driver driving along a remote stretch of road off West Little York noticed a car pulled off the road. It was Mary's company car. Inside the car, he found Mary's body. This location, by the way, is really not that far from the store that she had been at, the pharmacy, and is presumably somewhere along the route that she would have taken to go back to her clinic or towards home. So she was in her car still when they found her? Yes, in the driver's seat of the car. Unlike in Mary Henderson's case, Mary McGuinness's car was not burned. But at first glance, there was an attempt to make her death look like something it wasn't. The scene felt staged. The passenger door was left open and there was blood visible there. And crucially, Mary's own handgun, the one that she kept under her seat, was left at the scene near her as if tossed aside. If someone just walked up, they might think that Mary had completed suicide because of the gun present, but it clearly was not that.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Were they able to connect the 911 call to her yet, or they didn't know that was her?

SPEAKER_00 35:17

That's a good question. I'm not sure that when first responders arrived on the scene, that they knew that. We did talk about how it takes more time. It doesn't seem like they were ever able to head out to her location the night before because they would have found her as opposed to a tow truck driver the next morning.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Yeah, I was thinking that would be clear evidence that it was not a suicide, but a murder.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Yeah, eventually for sure. But also the medical examiner's report made it even more clear. Mary McGuinness had been viciously beaten. She had signs of a serious struggle, possibly even had been gagged, and then she was shot once in the head. If it were a suicide, she wouldn't have bruises from being beaten, and certainly no signs of being gagged or tied up or anything. Also, the blood on the passenger side and the open door suggested she might have tried to escape or was attacked from that side. If she did complete suicide, why would the passenger door be open? Everything on scene pointed to a homicide and unfortunately a violent one at that. Investigators noted right away that while the killer had left the gun to stage a suicide, they didn't do a very good job. The clear evidence of the struggle, first off. Well, one more thing, Mary's car had automatic locks that engaged when the car was put in gear. The fact that someone got to her implies either they forced their way in at a stop, or worse, they were already in her car. Detective Coleman noted that it seemed like the attacker might have had access to her car or that Mary had let them in willingly. Perhaps someone she knew or someone posing as a good Samaritan. We don't know for sure, but it suggests Mary might have recognized or not felt threatened by whoever did this until it was too late.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

It seems like I don't know, it was the person at the pharmacy, but I don't know that she was creeped out by that person. Right. I don't know. Unless like they were following her and they hit her from behind and she pulled off to stop because they had been in an accident. Maybe when she parked, the doors unlocked because mine do that. Yeah. And then they came up and attacked her.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Possibly. If someone else was following, we don't know if there were multiple people involved or yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

If the guy at the pharmacy had someone else in the car, and when she left, he came out and they followed her. Right. Rammed her on the road or something, and she pulled off. Was there any damage to her car? It's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

I've not seen that reported anywhere or heard that. I wonder that too. I'll have to look.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

It's also that makes sense as a way to get her to stop. Yeah. If they're tailing her, they ram her and then she pulls off to the road. Like I said, if she parked, that would unlock the doors. They could come up. Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Because who else would she have pulled over and then opened her car for?

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Yeah. And if she had gone out and someone's in the car and she didn't they were hiding in the back, but that's always my horrible fear when I get in my car at night. But it wasn't dark, right? It was like five o'clock. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

It's really old, whoever did this. And yeah, I don't know. I would think that the pharmacy might have some cameras, even though it is 2000.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

I would think that they would have some because a lot of the pharmacies do. I would assume like ATMs, even right further back. Yeah, we had that from the Tylenol murders. Yeah, that's just what I was thinking. Even if they didn't have them all over the store, you would think that they would have them in the pharmacy. Because a lot of times the pharmacies have cameras. Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Just because of that business. Yeah. It's bold and terrifying. Also, that Mary even called for help mid-attack. So the killer had to know that the authorities were being alerted. It's too bad she couldn't give them a location. Yeah. By mid-October 2000, Houston investigators suddenly have two murder cases on their hands. Mary Henderson Morris, who had been murdered on October 12th, and now Mary McGuinness Morris, the second Mary, who was beaten and shot in her car on October 15th. Two women with the same name, killed in similar ways, left in their cars just three days apart.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

I can't even imagine the confusion at this time and the pressure on the police. They must have been wondering if these cases were connected.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

Absolutely. The public certainly wondered. The media picked up on the bizarre name coincidence quickly. Headlines were titled Two Mary Morris's Slain Days Apart. Even nationally, ABC News ran a story on it in 2002, noting how unbelievable it was. From the family's perspective, they thought the shared name had to mean something. Both families were like, what are the odds of this happening by chance? Mary McGuinness's sister, Stephanie, said she found it astounding that two people by the same name who to me look very similar were murdered so close together. Lara, I have a picture if you want to see if you think they look similar on pictures.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Oh. Oh yeah, they do kind of look similar. You can see it. And their cars look similar. I mean, you can tell that definitely Mary Henderson was older. Mm-hmm. She's almost 10 years older. 10 years older. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Yeah, that's really interesting. Mary Henderson's daughter Marilyn also pointed out how hard it is to say it's just coincidence when both women were brutally murdered in their cars within three days of each other. The astronomical odds argument came up. Two Mary Morrises killed within three days in one city. Virtually impossible to be random, they felt. But she wasn't found there. She was found the opposite direction by three miles. Yeah. So that's really bizarre. Yeah. Now the police, on the other hand, had to consider the possibility of a link, but also they didn't want tunnel vision. They didn't want to jump to conclusions without evidence. Initially, detectives did check if the two Marys knew each other. They didn't. Or if their lives intersected in any kind of way, they found no personal connection whatsoever. Different workplaces, different social circles, different parts of town. The only link was the name and the similar circumstances.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

It's so weird. What about how they were killed? Do the methods suggest the same killer or something different? I guess it's so hard to tell with the first Mary because of the fire. And so hard to connect those when all your evidence is destroyed.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

Yes. And you kind of wonder if the plan was to burn the second car as well, but they were spooked because they realized she was on the phone with 911. Maybe didn't know if she'd given them a location. So maybe they saw a car coming up.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

They were on a main road, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Well, if they were connected, maybe they realized after that it was the wrong person for the first one and burned the car.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Right. Or yeah, that's possible. If they were going through her ID, like her purse after, and we're like, oh, that wasn't it. Right. Oh my gosh. Yeah. The MO definitely had ups. We have, like you said, the two that are killed in their cars. So we're left in somewhat remote areas. The first Mary's was definitely in a harder to see spot. And then we don't know if Mary Henderson was shot or what. Happened. They never found evidence that she was, but with the fire. But you still would think that they would find some evidence of that. That's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Yeah. But also, maybe they weren't planning on shooting the second Mary, but because she pulled a gun on them. Possibly. Maybe that's why she was shot. They took it from her.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

One law enforcement theory emerged, which is what you got right away. Maybe if it was a murder for hire situation, a hitman was hired to kill Mary Morris, Mary McGuinness Morris, the second Mary. But the hitman screwed up and killed Mary Henderson Morris by mistake. Then realizing the heir, the killer, went and killed the right Mary Morris three days later. The theory sounds like a Hollywood plot, but there is some evidence that supports it. The missing wedding ring from Mary Henderson. In some types of underworld hitman lore, the hitman might take a personal item like a ring to prove to whoever paid for the hit that it had been carried out. Mary Henderson's ring was gone and never returned. Then there's this antidote between the two murders. A call allegedly came into the Houston Chronicle, the major newspaper, from an anonymous person saying, quote, they got the wrong Mary Morris the first time. This was reported by Mary McGuinness's friend Lori's, or our second Mary, who said she verified that such a call was received at the newspaper. I've seen other reports that say that didn't happen, but it is out there enough that that is to me a really interesting piece. It's pretty bizarre. If true, multiple sources have mentioned that this tip called in. It's one of those wait, what moments in the case? You have to picture the staff taking the call, like, uh, just so you know, the Mary Morris killing in the news, that was a mistake. The other Mary Morris is the real target, which is chilling. Another piece that supports the theory are the differences in the victims' lives. Mary Henderson, the police couldn't find any enemies, any drama, any potential conflicts, any suspect at all. And then when we talk about Mary McGuinness, there were potential conflicts and enemies going on. One Crime Stopper's director, Kim Oag, pointed out that Mary Henderson's case had virtually no leads. Like it was a complete stranger. Whereas Mary McGuinness's case had multiple suspects and a clear motive if that was what happened. Kim basically said the first one could have been a mistaken identity hit, and the second one could have been the intended hit all along.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

That's like so hard to wrap your head around. I kind of thought of that at the beginning, but what are the odds that a hired killer would literally murder the wrong person with the same name? Like, how does that even happen? That's awful. And they're not even like in the same place. Like you said, they're on opposite ends of town. Yeah, it's so bizarre.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

If that was, they had to be targeting the first Mary for a while because also she left that day. It wasn't a routine time to leave, it was early. Her car ended up being the other direction. So how does someone get her to drive that way when she doesn't have a cell phone with her? Yeah. Yeah. Were they in the car?

SPEAKER_01 48:03

Which is absolutely horrifying. And maybe uh maybe she got to the gas station and someone was there, and they had a picture of someone they were supposed to take out and they saw her. They're like, Hey, my car broke down. Can I get a ride somewhere? And being a kind person, maybe she was giving them a ride and they attacked her. It could be something like that. That's terrible. Yeah. And why people don't help other people anymore? Because of stuff like that that happens, which is so sad.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

It is really sad. And if somebody was just given a picture and it said Mary Morris in Houston, well, Mary Henderson Morris would come up before Mary McGuinness Morris. Yeah. And you're just given that like basic picture. They're not identical.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

They're not identical, but they have a similar hairstyle. They're they both have dark hair. Maybe she knew the people at the gas station. They were talking. They said her name was Mary. Mm-hmm. It could have been a very awful random coincidence that they were there and they saw her or thought they had their chance.

SPEAKER_00 49:15

Right. If Mary McGuinness was the target, the killer might have panicked after killing Mary Henderson by mistake, which could explain why Mary McGuinness was killed only three days later. Like you've got to quickly make up for that mistake. Something about the locations. Mary Henderson was found only three miles from her home. Like we said, the opposite direction she was driving. It's almost like she was intercepted shortly after leaving home, or maybe, like you mentioned, at the gas station, someone followed her that morning. If a hitman had an address or a general area that had misidentified the target, like we said, I guess it's conceivable. It's just so horrible.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

It really is. And it's kind of morbidly fascinating if it's a case of mistaken identity at the worst level possible. What did the police officially say? Do they ever endorse the hitman mix-up theory?

SPEAKER_00 50:16

Officially, no, they have not endorsed it. In fact, Harris County investigators have repeatedly said they found no hard evidence linking the two murders or supporting the botched hit theory. One detective, Detective Coleman, who we mentioned, was actually incredibly skeptical of that. He pointed out rightfully that a professional hitman typically would do their homework. When someone is hired to kill someone, they're going to have their information and know their habits. They don't just go out with nothing. And that's his quote. And his view as coincidental as the timing and the names were. The murders happened on opposite ends of the county, one on the far east side, one on the northwest side, and didn't appear to be the work of the same person. And he obviously has more information than we're privy to. But the one thing to me is she did work on the northwest side of town, our first Mary. She was over there a lot.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

Yeah. Did they look at any like account records of the co-worker that she didn't get along with or of like her husband or anything like that? Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

Of Mary McGuinness. Mm-hmm. Right. So because the police are leaning towards it being a bizarre coincidence, they're investigating two separate crimes that just tragically shared some similarities. They investigated each case on its own merits. That said, I'm sure they didn't entirely rule out a connection behind closed doors because we do know they looked to see if they had anything in common, like common acquaintances or knew each other. Publicly, they treated it as two separate cases and investigated both as such.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

It must have been hard for their families to accept the coincidence explanation. I bet.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

Yeah. I feel like, especially for Mary Henderson's, but also both of them. Mary McGuinness's sister, Stephanie, has been one of the most vocal. She to this day suspects a hitman scenario and that Mary Henderson was horribly collateral damage. Mary Henderson's husband, Jay, has also expressed that he finds it virtually impossible that it's random. And who can blame them? If I lost a loved one in such a horrible, tragic, strange way, I would be looking for connection as well.

SPEAKER_01 52:53

Did they find any DNA in Mary McGuinness's car, like under her fingernails or anything? If it was such a violent struggle, you would think they might find something.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

I feel like they did, whether that's led to anything or is still waiting for the right testing. Nothing's come about it yet. Nothing conclusive has come from any DNA that they either found and kept confidential or that they've tested and has not gone anywhere. Let's talk about how the investigation into Mary McGuinness's murder unfolded. That one did have actual leads. Police knew pretty quickly that in Mary McGuinness's case, there were at least two individuals who might have had motive or suspicious behavior. They looked at the coworker, Dwayne, who Mary feared and had probably left that death to her note. And Mary's husband, Mike, who had possibly had marital issues, also gained from the life insurance. Also considered the possibility of a random attacker or some unknown person from the pharmacy. But given Mary's own statements about recognizing the person, it certainly leaned towards someone connected to her life.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

What did they find out on that coworker? He sounds like suspect number one initially, especially with the death threat notes.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

The coworker was definitely scrutinized and he did quit his job not long after Mary's death. It was possible that he was fired, but all we know is that he was no longer working there pretty quickly. Detectives said they might have evidence linking him to the crime, though they never disclosed what that was. Duane vehemently denied involvement and did an interview with the Houston Chronicle in 2002 saying that he claimed, interestingly, that he was under a gag order from their employer, Union Carbide, not to speak about the case, which is odd. Perhaps the company didn't want any liability or drama, or maybe he just was saying that. But they haven't denied it. Dwayne has never been charged with anything related to this case, but he does remain a suspect in Mary McGuinness's murder. As of the last updates, police still have not ruled him out. There's also that piece that Mary said on the phone to Lori that she thought she recognized the creepy person from the store through this coworker. It implies that maybe Mary saw someone who had been at a party or a gathering with that coworker. And actually, Detective Coleman mentioned that despite the bad blood, this coworker had been to Mike and Mary's home for a party before, and they had been to his place for a party get together as well. They weren't complete strangers outside of work. They had social intersections, which complicates it. And also, that makes sense. That makes sense that Mary could have recognized a friend of Dwayne's. I feel like she would have said it was Dwayne if that's who she saw. Yeah. It makes sense that this person might seem familiar because of those different social gatherings. Lori didn't report Mary saying that it was the coworker. It was just someone she thought she knew through him. It could be a friend or a relative of Dwayne's. It's speculative, but it's really the only thing that makes sense with what she actually said on the phone.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

Yeah, maybe the coworker enlisted someone else to help if he really didn't like her that much. Oh no, so many possibilities that are all terrible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:51

Yes, exactly. It's murky. Now, let's talk about Mike, Mary's husband. Initially, I'm sure people hoped Mike was a grieving husband with nothing to hide, but some of his behavior raised eyebrows. For one, when detectives first approached Mike to come in and talk, he refused to meet without an attorney present. Now, absolutely, that's his right. I would always say get a lawyer. And he did later say, hey, I was just following advice of friends to get a lawyer. I had nothing to hide. But from detectives' perspective, they found it suspicious. One detective famously said, Witnesses don't need attorneys, suspects have attorneys. So that sets a tone of mistrust.

SPEAKER_01 57:40

That's so awful because that really sets a bad tone for people if they're being questioned by the police to say, even if you have nothing to hide, if you do, you should, you know, if you don't, then you should be fine. But let's say you walk in there and say something and not even on purpose, it's not a bad thing to have an attorney present just for your protection. Like they know the lot.

SPEAKER_00 58:10

I know I would always say get one. So them saying that yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

So them to say that just I think is in bad tone to people in general.

unknown 58:22

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 58:23

Because it makes you feel like if you ask for your rights to have an attorney that automatically you're a suspect, then that shouldn't be the case. You should have those rights.

SPEAKER_00 58:33

Yeah, that's what they're there for. Exactly. Police asked Mike to take a polygraph test, which we know are garbage. And Mike refused that as well. He explained that he was on anti-anxiety and anti-depression medications at the time, and he didn't trust that a polygraph could account for that. And that's actually a very fair point. Polygraphs can be unreliable just on their face, but especially if someone is taking certain medications or emotionally not in a good place. But again, to police, it was another checkbox in that, hmm, not cooperating fully column, which I disagree with.

SPEAKER_01 59:16

But what about an alibi? Was where was Mike when Mary was attacked?

SPEAKER_00 59:22

Mike's alibi was that he and their daughter, who was 16, were at the movies together that Sunday afternoon, around the time that Mary was killed. He was in a public movie theater with his daughter. He did have movie ticket stubs. And the daughter also said that that's where they had been together. Some have pointed out that a determined person could slip out of a movie or orchestrate something. And they don't find it especially helpful that a daughter might back up her dad, even though I don't think if her mom's just been murdered, that she's going to lie about where her dad was.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

But well, I guess that they could say, she could say they were at the movies together, but if he ran out to the bathroom, but I'm guessing they probably weren't that close. I'm sure you would notice if your dad is gone for 40 minutes of the movie or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

Yeah, it would be a long time. Right. Yeah. They did consider that he might have had someone else do it, might have been the one to hire somebody to attack Mary. The alibi wasn't ironclad enough to completely dismiss suspicion. Then there's this weird phone call part of it. It's really odd. Mary's phone record showed an incoming call about two hours after her 911 call. That call was from Mike's cell phone and it lasted four minutes long. Mike told police he called Mary's phone that evening because he was trying to reach her and claimed she never answered. So he just let it ring and ring and ring. But here's the thing: in telephone records, a call that lasts four minutes is a completed call, meaning it was picked up. If it had just rung through without answer, it would have either eventually gone to voicemail or not shown a four-minute connect time. Detective Coleman flat out said he does not accept Mike's explanation that it just rang on and on for four minutes. He questioned who answered the phone on the other end and what did they talk about for four minutes? Could it be that it rang for a while and then he left a four-minute voicemail? It could be. There was no indication that there was a four-minute voicemail, but it's possible. It's weird, right? Trying to make it sound like Mike was on the phone with the killer. But in my mind, two hours later, they're just waiting for him to call. I don't understand that part of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:05

Yeah, I could see them thinking he was on the phone with the killer if it had been like right then the exact time later, right after totally. Not two hours, unless her cell phone wasn't there if they had taken it. But it sounds like it was with her.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:21

Yeah, it was. So unless they took it, held on to it, and went back to the scene. But then wouldn't you be able to see phone pings in other places? Like it had traveled after this had happened. Especially if someone answered it somewhere else. Yeah. They say that if Mike hired this person, maybe the call was a check-in, or the killer telling him it's done, or even Mike calling to find out if it was done. The four minutes of it all raises questions and was a red flag to detectives. Mike later said that he found it odd too. He claimed normally if a phone is off or out of service, you'd get a voicemail prompt, but he never did. So he let it keep rinking, waiting for it. He chalked it up to a phone company glitch. I don't know. I just I don't understand who would have answered it two hours later.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:22

Well, and it seems like you could pull the phone records and see if it was connected, if there wasn't a voicemail left on her phone. And if it was a four-minute voicemail, well, they're saying it, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:35

Yeah, they're saying it was a four-minute connected call. That's the information that they got when they pulled. It's really weird. I don't it is really weird. I don't know what to make of it. I yeah, and it's like it's the 2000s of it all, it's different from now. So even researching what that looks like now or why a phone would ring for four minutes and show that it's a call, I don't even think that information is relevant because 26 years later, nothing about that is the same. Oh, that's really weird. There's more. Initially, Mary McGuinness's wedding ring was reported missing from her body, just like Mary Henderson's head been. Now, I saw in some reporting that it wasn't her wedding ring, it was a different ring or just something she liked to wear. And then Sun said wedding ring. I tend to believe that it wasn't her wedding ring, that it was a ring. Because Mike told police that this ring was one that Mary always wore, and it was not with her when she was found. I feel like if they said that, that's one more connection between the two, which never comes up as a connection. So it's odd. And also, she still had other jewelry on. So again, not a robbery, just that one ring was gone. But a few months after the murder, a family friend was having dinner with Mike and noticed something. Mike's 16-year-old daughter was wearing the ring he said wasn't found with Mary. The friend recognized it as Mary's ring. They asked Mike about it. Like, why did your daughter have Mary's ring that was missing? And the response was, Oh, we found it. Interesting. Which makes me feel like maybe she took it off and dropped it. She was in a hurry.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:36

Or maybe if she had other jewelry on, that's kind of interesting that she wouldn't put that one on that she always wears. But I've gone out several times. I'm like, oh, I didn't wear any of my rings today. And it was a Sunday. She's out running errands. I could see forgetting to put your rings on.

unknown 1:05:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:54

And maybe she didn't have any rings on, but she had like earrings and necklace and stuff, but had forgotten her rings. Maybe she washed her hands. Right before she left and left them by the sink or something. Yeah. Or maybe she had washed her hands at work after giving the shot and had left it at the clinic and they found it that way. That's possible. That's a good idea. I could see those things happening, but it's still kind of sketchy. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:19

Wouldn't you I wouldn't you say that though?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:22

Oh, she had left it at the clinic and we found it when we were cleaning out her stuff or something like that, instead of just, oh, we found it. And maybe he did give more, but maybe because odd.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:34

I don't think that you would have your daughter wearing it if it could tie you back to this, if you're responsible.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:42

Right. I feel like that would be a really stupid thing to do. And I could see it being very nice for the daughter to have something to remember her mom by if it was her favorite ring and they thought it was gone and then they found it somewhere. That could be a really special thing for her.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:59

But what if she was washing her hands before she left to run errands and go to the clinic and she dropped it and it rolled and she couldn't find it and she was like, Oh, I'll get it when I come home. I'll have more time. I know it's in this general area, but then they wouldn't have known. They would have thought, because then maybe she does have on everything else she normally wears. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:24

I feel like there's a lot of answers that you could come up with that. Mm-hmm. If they weren't for sure that she was wearing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:32

Right. I don't know if they saw her leave with it or yeah, I don't know. It's the detective found it super sketchy, though. The friends did later report it to them. And we don't know the full explanation that Mike gave, but it sounds like they discovered the ring somewhere after the fact. I think when you're trying not to put these two murder scenes together, but our first Mary was missing her ring. So it's entirely possible that I don't know, that was some sort of connection or not. I I don't know, because they're just missing the facts that they're connected. Yeah. And that seems like a huge connection if they're both missing one ring and nothing else.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:26

No, for sure. And I wonder if people would have found it suspicious if Mary Henderson's murder hadn't had that one small detail, too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:35

Yeah, I think that's exactly it. It's like a connection when they're trying to say there is no connection.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:41

So yeah. And if she hadn't had a missing ring, Mary Henderson, and then afterwards they're like, Oh, we found her ring. We were so glad we found it, they would have been like, Oh, that's so sweet. But right because of this fact, yeah, it just adds like an extra piece. Makes it more suspicious. But yes. And combined with the insurance money and marital issues, I could, you know, with that little detail, I could see why he's a suspect too.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:12

Yeah. Detectives absolutely found those things as possible reasons to consider him a suspect. There were also allegations that he was controlling, but for most sources, they said strained relationships. Some of Mary's close friends, though, said that she had talked about leaving him. If he had hired someone, he wouldn't need to be present. Detectives obviously didn't like his behavior lawyering up. He wouldn't let their daughter be formally interviewed by police, which he didn't. He refused to let detectives talk to her early on. And like all of it, I would say get a lawyer. I don't think I would let them talk to my daughter when she's just gone through something so traumatic. It doesn't make it guilt. But then you start layering all of the things on top of each other. It was enough to raise eyebrows for detectives. Mike, for his part, insists that he's innocent. He has publicly said things like I had absolutely nothing to do with arranging Mary's murder, which is an interesting phrase. He says it's a hurtful insinuation and absolutely untrue. He feels the police unfairly labeled him uncooperative just because he exercised his rights. He points out that he did get fingerprints. He gave DNA access to his home, just not the polygraph because of the medications he was taking. He eventually left Texas and went back to West Virginia with his daughter a couple years after all of this. As of 2004, both he and the coworker were still officially suspects, but no one had been charged.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:58

A little tangled web there. A little bit. So on Mary Guinness's side, we have at least two suspect theories. Her husband and the coworker. And then on Mary Henderson's side, there's basically no suspect. If it wasn't connected. Yeah, if it wasn't connected. If the murders were separate, they just have nothing.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:18

Yeah. Sadly, yes. If the two cases aren't connected, Mary Henderson's murder is a complete mystery with zero leads. Again, no known enemies, no issues with her spouse, who was, by all accounts, loving and devastated and had no motive, no evidence left of the scene. It looks a lot like a random act of violence by, say, a stranger. We know those are extremely hard to solve without eyewitnesses or evidence, which they did not have. One weird footnote in Mary Henderson's case, about six months later, Jay started getting some strange phone calls. Three times someone called asking for Mary, but by then Mary was deceased. And when Jay asked who they were, they would hang up. The caller was never identified. It could have been a horrible twisted prank or possibly a wrong number. Who knows? I did look. It said there were nine Mary Morrises living in Houston in 2000. And actually, a third one died that year. But that one was natural causes old age and not within a couple days, like these two. Also, some months after Mary Henderson's murder, one of her calling cards, remember phone calling cards from the 90s and the 2000s was used and it ran up$2,000 in charges. Detectives tracked it to a 16-year-old girl in Galveston, which is about an hour away, who says she found a purse with the card in a convenience store parking lot. She had absolutely no connection to Mary. And Mary's family didn't recognize the purse that was found as hers. It might not have been Mary's purse, just someone else's purse that got lost that happened to have these stolen cards in it. Because with everything that was burned, they don't know really if the killer took anything out of her purse. It could be an unrelated petty theft or red herring. They investigated it, but it didn't lead anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:34

It's like another random fragment of this frustrating puzzle.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:38

Yeah, it might not even come from the same puzzle. That's very bizarre. If the cases were truly separate coincidences, then Mary Henderson's case is a gold case, really. They don't have a theory of why someone would target her. And that's why the family's leaned so hard on the connection idea. Because otherwise, there's just no reason that Mary Henderson would be killed. As Jay said, there was no reason for my married to be killed. She never did anything to anybody, which is heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:11

So after looking at all of this, what do you think? Do you think it was a hitman mix-up or just two oddly, suspiciously similar, unrelated crimes?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:21

It's hard to accept. It was pure coincidence. Two Mary Morrises in one city the same week, both left in cars. They do have a similarity between the two of them. If you didn't know them really well and you were seeing them in the dark at 6 a.m. in the morning, it could happen by chance, but I do feel like there's something linking them. The mix-up hitman theory, as far-fetched as it sounds, really ties up a lot of loose ends because it gives an explanation for Mary Henderson's otherwise motiveless murder, that she was the wrong target. And it fits with the idea that Mary McGuinness had someone who wanted her dead and went to extreme lengths. If that's true, I don't know. But the police didn't find a smoking gun linking the two cases. It's also conceivable the timing and name overlap was a horrible fluke. What do you think happened?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:24

I don't know. I feel like the hitman thing would be more, I don't know, something that you could think of if they lived close by each other. They were living in the same area. Also, like you said, the detectives do their homework, they know who they're going after. I wouldn't, I don't think you would suspect that they would just go out and happen to run into somebody and kill them. But also, there's no nothing against Mary Henderson as to why just a horribly random murder. I hate that. I hate that too. And then the stuff with Mary McGuinness. Why? I don't know. Unless we said if someone was attacking her, maybe it was a robbery kind of thing, but they didn't take anything. She pulled out the gun, they shot her and got spooked and ran away. Just the timing and the names are so similar. It makes it hard to think it's not a coincidence. But I really don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:20

Yeah. The families have never stopped seeking answers. Mary McGuinness's sister, Stephanie, in particular, has kept on the police calling regularly for updates. In 2004, she got a national victim advocacy group to double the reward money for information on the case, hoping more money would get someone to talk. She said, I have to be her voice. She can't speak, so I'm speaking for her. As of the last reports, both murders remain unsolved and officially unconnected. Investigators say they continue to follow leads, but there haven't been any major breaks made public. And at the 25th anniversary, which was really just a few months ago, Houston news segments revisited the case and detectives said that they are still looking for tips. Around the 25th anniversary, so October of 2025, the Harris County Sheriff's Office stated to date, we have no link or connections between the two cases, as coincidental as it seems. They reiterated they have the same to the ex-coworker and Mary McGuinness's husband as a person of interest in her case, but neither has been charged.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:40

That's so sad. After all these years, no justice for either Mary.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:45

I know. Isn't that weird too? Neither of them have ever been able to be solved. Yeah. That's to me another notch up for the coincidence. Yeah. Before we wrap up, I want to highlight just how these two women have been remembered. Both Mary Henderson and Mary McGuinness were by all accounts kind, loving people, living normal lives, and were violently taken away. Their families still hurt and want answers. Jay said that because of all the speculation about a connection in trying to find the killer, Mary can't even die in peace. He says her memory is forever tied up in this larger mystery and he really just wants closure.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:31

That's so heartbreaking. It's like even her story isn't her own anymore, just part of this big puzzle.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:37

Yes, exactly. And Mary McGuinness's sister has said she'll never give up trying to get justice for Mary McGuinness. And she has this determination that is really powerful. So if anyone listening has any information, however small, that could help solve these murders, there is still a Crime Stoppers reward out there. And law enforcement would love your tip. After 25 plus years now, all it takes is still just one small piece of information to possibly bring closure. And as we always say in unsolved cases, someone somewhere knows something. And if that's you, say something. These families deserve answers.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:21

Definitely. What a bizarre case, like you said from the beginning. It is. Just so many possibilities and questions. I mean, it's almost too much that it's real life for these families.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:32

It's so sad. Yeah, it is. This story really stays with you. It's tragic and also endlessly puzzling. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Crime Clueless. If you want to learn more about either case or see the resources that we used, head to our blog. You can find it on our website, crimeclueless.com. We are on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube. We would love if you would subscribe to our YouTube. And we love to connect with you, hear your feedback, theories, any case suggestions, anything like that. If you enjoyed today's episode, we'd be so grateful if you would take a moment to rate, review, or share our podcast, or all three would be incredible. Your support helps us reach more listeners, and it's a fast, free, easy way to support Crime Clueless. You can find Crime Clueless on all streaming platforms wherever you get your podcast. And as always, remember reviews to be clueless, careless, or caught off card.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:36

Not today murder. Hi, everybody.