Words with Will Episode 1

In this episode of the Infinite Endurance Podcast, host Philip J. Sebastiani and guest William Kent discuss various aspects of ultra running, including personal journeys, preparation for races, strategies for winter running, nutrition, essential gear, and mental toughness. They also announce the upcoming Best Day Ever Ultra in Oklahoma at Cross Bar Ranch, emphasizing the importance of community and personal growth in the sport.

Takeaways

• William Kent shares his journey as an ultra runner.
• The importance of setting mini goals for races.
• Strategies for running in winter conditions.
• Nutrition plays a crucial role in ultra-running performance.
• Choosing the right gear is essential for trail running.
• Mental toughness is key to overcoming challenges in ultras.
• Community support enhances the running experience.
• Understanding your strengths can help in race selection.
• The Best Day Ever Ultra is set for November 1st in Oklahoma.
  
  

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Transcript

Philip J. Sebastiani (00:01.095)
Welcome to the Infinite Endurance Podcast. I'm your host Philip J. Sebastiani and today I have William Kent on with me. How's it going?

William Joseph Kent (00:08.394)
What's up OG? What's up Gear Guy? It's alright.

Philip J. Sebastiani (00:14.2)
That's good. I am glad to introduce this little segment. I'm going to kind of get rolling with Will here. We're calling it Words with Will. I like the alliteration in it. And we're just going to get together every few months and kind of just chat about things in running, things in our own personal lives and kind of whatever, and just see where the words take us. So I've known Will, what, three years now? Something like that.

William Joseph Kent (00:40.665)
three something like that since backland our first backland

Philip J. Sebastiani (00:45.324)
Yes, it's just a race that unites so many people. And we're both, you know, runners coming up in the scene and making names for ourselves. And I thought this would be just a good opportunity for us to talk and share our own experiences with the audience here. But Will, I'm going give you a chance to introduce yourself to everyone. Tell us about your story, who you are.

William Joseph Kent (01:07.247)
What up? I'm William, Mr. William Kent Baldhead Billy, whatever you wanna call me. I've had many names. Oklahoma runner, which is not saying a whole lot, because we ain't got a whole lot of runners over here, unless you're running on the road.

Yeah, I think you guys might know me as the guy who screams at you as I'm running by or the guy who's smoking a cigarette at the start line, but I'm trying to reverse that. I'm trying to put away the smoking. I'm on day four. Check the Strava.

Philip J. Sebastiani (01:49.9)
What made you decide to finally stop smoking? I know that's a big decision for folks who smoke. Like why now?

William Joseph Kent (02:01.275)
If you're not competitive, you're not like you're checking your Strava, if you're not like a creeper, then this probably isn't for you, this segment here. I'm looking at the guys I'm competing with at the gorge and I'm looking at their heart rates. And that's, you know, they're running 120 to 130 heart rate for 20, 30 miles or whatever. And mine's like 140 to 150.

I'm trying like time and a half what they're, you know, I'm putting out so much more energy. I need so much more water, so much more food. I'm just like a freaking mule. They're just dragging myself along. And, I got to cut it out. I got to stop, but it's so hard. I feel like spiders are crawling all over me right now. I just want to, yeah. But

Philip J. Sebastiani (02:53.966)
getting little withdrawals, but yeah, that's, I think it's just a sacrifice when you consider if you weren't getting to this next level, you're trying to get there, I'm trying to get there. Those are those things that we have to put off to get there. Tell them about the gorge. What are your plans? What are your goals there?

William Joseph Kent (03:15.845)
Kinda was a lot kinda went into this. Every year I wanted to do Black Canyons, but for some reason I seem to get injuries and training in Oklahoma specifically through like, I don't know, November through January is just not fun. You're just getting used to the cold. You're kinda like switching into all your different clothes and gear and crap and.

You're running at night all the time. I'm just gonna let them California runners have that race.

So the Gorge was kind of like, I always try to be different. I know I want to do all the races that everybody wants to do, like the Walmart races is what I call them. All the big name, like, Aravaipa is there. all going to live stream it. We're going to dance and all the things. But I wanted a race where a lot of pros are going to be there, but I also wanted it to be a little bit.

different a little bit off off the beaten path I feel like the gorge used to be like a really Well known race but it kind of got in the shadows a little bit For the past five or six years So I've just picked that race and I'm from Oregon I grew up I'm not from there, but I grew up about half my life in Oregon and

I got a big mission. Philip, I believe he was gonna meet me up there. Spoiler alert. And then my pops had passed away, so I'm gonna go sprinkle his ashes on a mountain, mountaintop, near where we're gonna be running. So it's just gonna be a big journey. There's a lot of, my whole goal this year was to be intentional with the runs that I do and travel as well.

Philip J. Sebastiani (05:01.145)
yeah, I'm gonna be there. Don't worry, I will be there.

William Joseph Kent (05:25.421)
Oklahoma and Texas are not going to be on the list this year. Except for that one race that was just when I started. I mean literally I was two weeks into January and I had already signed up for the Ouachita switchbacks.

Philip J. Sebastiani (05:31.746)
Yeah, I'm glad you.

Philip J. Sebastiani (05:42.39)
That's one of the toughest races in Oklahoma. Or is it Oklahoma? Yeah, okay. So yeah, you did good there. Did you win that one?

William Joseph Kent (05:51.341)
Yep, had to grind for it though. I was not feeling very good.

Philip J. Sebastiani (05:59.316)
yeah. So much to unpack. I'm going to rewind just a little bit. So the Gorge 100 Ks, race that, you know, me and Will started talking about and it happens in April. So still a few months to get fit, stack bricks. And like he was saying, it, it used to be one of the most competitive 100 Ks in the country. And then it's, in my opinion, gotten to the shadow of like Black Canyon.

It's no longer like the Gorge is no longer a golden ticket and you know, that's what a lot of people want. But this year what's unique is it is a qualifier for team USA for the long trail world mountain running championship. the top two male and females of that race get to be on team USA. I think that's a great goal you're shooting for because I know what that's like trying to get onto a USA team myself. And yeah, we're pulling all the stops that we're to be there and

Be there in Oregon in April and I'm to around, be handing you bottles, run around aid stations, pacing you. It's going to be a really great trip.

William Joseph Kent (07:03.279)
This, I don't know if anybody's listened to Seth D'Amore a long time ago. I mean, right, I grew up, grew running, like listening to Seth D'Amore and he would always say, like, come up with your A, B and C goals for your race. So I always, I always did that. So I have these little mini goals and one of them is fantastic. I'm just going to bring it up on here.

Philip J. Sebastiani (07:09.125)
I love that guy.

William Joseph Kent (07:32.795)
So I would like finish the race, I think would be C goal

B goal would be top 10. A goal beat Ryan Miller. That's my only mission at the 100k.

Philip J. Sebastiani (07:52.387)
Yeah.

Philip J. Sebastiani (07:57.358)
Ryan Miller, yeah, very well-respected Texas, uh, ultra runner and coach and pretty quick guy. yeah, it's anything that happened on the trails. It's, different than stuff on the road and all that. And your training has been coming to a whole different level. So we just have to see where the cards lie that day. I want to be freaking out like.

William Joseph Kent (08:20.467)
Ha

Tell me that's overreaching by far. We're gonna see what happens.

Philip J. Sebastiani (08:26.894)
No, I'm just like, I'm really excited to see a race with pros because there's going be like a fair number of pros are going for, you know, spots on, on the team and getting to see it from the spectator standpoint. Like I'm, I'm, I'm excited for that. I'm sure it's scary to be on the racing standpoint on the line with them, but.

William Joseph Kent (08:48.335)
What is, what's that little dude's name that everybody's talking about right now? His name's like David Rowe or Roke or Roach or whatever. The Leadville guy. He's.

Philip J. Sebastiani (08:57.772)
Yeah, yeah, he's he's pretty stout.

William Joseph Kent (09:02.427)
pretty much all his athletes are going to be there, including Ryan Miller.

Philip J. Sebastiani (09:05.506)
Yeah, he is a really successful coaching business. Yeah, he, he, he draws some really, really top, top tier elite runners, but you know, doesn't matter. We're going to, we're going to crush it.

William Joseph Kent (09:18.703)
I was listening to your podcast, Philip, and that's where I got that from is because one of your people you had on there was chasing after me, I think. And they just picked a goal, like almost not a person to hate, but like a person to like a goal. Cause like, let's say you don't know if you're going to win the race, but you're like, well, I just want to get past that guy.

So that's kind of what I did. I was like, let me pick out one of the guys off this ultra sign up list and say, okay, if I can ride it, I just want to, if I can ride his coat tails and let me, let me, let me get them in the last mile. We'll see.

Philip J. Sebastiani (09:59.82)
Yeah, having like a little enemy. I remember that episode you're referring to. think that might've been our kind of backland recap episode. And one of the, one of the guys up here was talking about how you should make an enemy and it just motivates you in the moment. But I guess, I don't know if Ryan Miller ever stumbles across this podcast. Will's coming for you. I don't know how I would.

William Joseph Kent (10:07.321)
Yeah.

William Joseph Kent (10:26.169)
No!

Philip J. Sebastiani (10:29.102)
All fun. It's all fun. So with these episodes really me and Will are, you know, just having conversation, talking about what's on our mind, but there is going to be some substance to this as well. Well, we're going to have a range of topics and today we have five topics for you guys to, to kind of, we're going to give our two cents about each and give some tips and things that maybe can help you if you're working through anything like this. And the first thing that I wanted to mention, the topic that I picked for us to go over is.

William Joseph Kent (10:29.375)
it's all fun now.

Philip J. Sebastiani (10:58.67)
strategies for winter ultra running. Cause it is winter. Up here in Texas, it's going to be like 70 next, well, where I live in Texas, it's going be like 70 next week. So maybe not so much like winter, but like you said earlier in Oklahoma, you just spend a few months learning how to run in the cold. So what are some of the things you do for running the cold? You just got done with the run before we hopped on the show. So what are you, what are you sporting?

William Joseph Kent (11:21.819)
Yeah, like mid run and I had one mile left to go and I had to cut it short. And so I'm putting it on Strava. I'm blaming you and your podcast for that.

Philip J. Sebastiani (11:31.214)
What's the saying? All press this good press or something. There's no such thing as Bad publicity.

William Joseph Kent (11:38.437)
There go. People are gonna be like, what podcast? What happened on that podcast? Yeah. Well, I just think like as the skinnier I get and the more beat down I get as I run these ultras and all that, my heart rate gets lower and I get colder and I'm like turning into an like a little grandma. Like I'll come home. got like 14.

Philip J. Sebastiani (11:45.996)
Yeah, so we'll go ahead.

William Joseph Kent (12:07.259)
Jackets on and like 19 pairs of pants and I'm like sitting there in my house and I'm like it's time to go for a run I'm just like I Don't know how to dress. I don't know what to do Because if you go out with layers on right now, you're gonna take them off But that first mile is just like I hate everything that's like from November to March is just like mad December to March in Oklahoma for me

I hate everything mile one.

Me personally, I just get naked and start doing like warm up stuff right there in my kitchen before I run out the door. I don't put on any layers, get booty naked and just start cartwheels and high knees and butt kicks and just get everything loosened up for about 10 minutes and then just hopefully just put on some shorts and a t-shirt. Today I put on tights and

That was miserable. It's like 60 degrees outside. I don't know why I thought it was gonna be different, but.

That's usually what I do.

Philip J. Sebastiani (13:26.03)
Yeah, I, this morning when I ran, it was also a little warmer than it has been. So usually like the last month or so it's been maybe 15, 20 degrees when I've gone to run, cause I go run around 5 AM. This morning was like 36 degrees. So was like, Oh, it was so nice. And I kind of have this hard rule of gloves. So if it's below freezing, I'll always bring gloves, but I feel like if it's above freezing, my hands always warm up. you ever run anything like that?

William Joseph Kent (13:55.323)
I never used to be like that. I don't know what happened. Maybe it's the thirties, but like I'm looking back on my Strava from like 21 and 22. I would just go out with no shirt on, no gloves, nothing. It could be 10 below zero. And I'm just like best day ever. And now I'm like, I need my bottle. I need my gloves. I need my headphones. I need my hat. I need my earmuffs. I need my glasses.

I'm like turning into the gear guy like you. And yeah gloves are a must. I put them in my waistband and just they usually stay and some light gloves for sure.

Philip J. Sebastiani (14:39.982)
And I'm not a fan of tights if I'm doing a faster run. So I'll usually wear shorts unless it's in the teens, so below 20. I mean, I'm still rocking shorts like this morning. 36 degrees ain't that bad in shorts. But if it's like a slow recovery run, I'll wear tights if it's that cold. It's weird.

William Joseph Kent (15:00.985)
That's what I think got me at Wachita, the switchbacks, which is like a 50K in Oklahoma. It's kind of right on the line between Oklahoma and Arkansas and that elevation running uphill. It feels like I got some cheap tights and they're just like, felt like I had to like push harder to like stretch my legs out. I felt like I wasn't as...

Philip J. Sebastiani (15:26.296)
They weren't like broken in.

William Joseph Kent (15:27.683)
Yeah, like really constricted. Like I was running with like a, are those bands called? Just, you know, the bands you'd wrap around your ankles and do little weighted things.

Philip J. Sebastiani (15:36.108)
Yeah,

William Joseph Kent (15:40.239)
I've just become a baby.

Philip J. Sebastiani (15:40.62)
Yeah, that's why it's hard for me to do workouts in tights. just, it doesn't, it doesn't work. feel restricted in my movement. But do you wear a base layer over like a thermal or something? It's kind of cold.

William Joseph Kent (15:55.867)
And usually just one of the long sleeves that I get from races, from one of the Briston's races or one of Paladuros races. got a bunch of little whatever that fiber crap polyester thing, just a long sleeve.

Philip J. Sebastiani (16:01.462)
Yes, man.

Philip J. Sebastiani (16:12.206)
Yeah, I have so many race shirts or race long sleeves and they just become running gear. It's part of the, it's part of what you pay for the race entry, right? Thank you.

William Joseph Kent (16:22.713)
I even have any clothes. Like I have zero clothes. Like I have no clothing whatsoever. I have like two pairs of jeans and maybe like two shirts and then all the rest is just shorts and free shirts from races. Like I have no wardrobe.

Philip J. Sebastiani (16:40.898)
Yeah, I always find it, it's like a badge of honor and you get to wear the Ray shirt like around town or something. I'm like, yeah, I did this. And people are like, okay.

William Joseph Kent (16:51.419)
Just so everyone knows I'm not gonna This doesn't have to be your journey. It's my journey, but if you wear your shirt at the race during the race That's that is a no no, that's two thumbs down from me and Philip

Philip J. Sebastiani (17:07.694)
That's a bad juju. It's like, you can't come back from that. That's bad. I don't know. Yep. have exactly earn it after. And one also rule that I kind of adhere to, but especially running in the winter, I dress like it's 20 degrees warmer. I don't know you've ever that rule.

William Joseph Kent (17:13.797)
for after the race. You have to earn it.

William Joseph Kent (17:32.773)
dress like it's 20 degrees warmer.

Philip J. Sebastiani (17:35.414)
Yeah, so if it's 30 out, you could get away addressing like it's 50 out because it's going to, your body's going to warm up.

William Joseph Kent (17:44.155)
That's so smart Because that I mean that could have happened today. I Had the most miserable run ever Nature called I had to use some leaves I felt like I was running like a 630 pace and I was running like an eight-minute pace and I was just burping and my stomach hurt and I was tired and it was foggy and it was dark and I was sweating profusely because for some reason I wore a long sleeve and tights

Let me look at the weather right now.

Philip J. Sebastiani (18:19.182)
Right now in... Where are you? In Norman? Is that right?

William Joseph Kent (18:21.467)
Okay, it's 45.

Still, that's hot.

Philip J. Sebastiani (18:28.664)
Yeah, I mean, that's like almost optimal marathon weather, like 50 degrees is. So singlet weather, man.

William Joseph Kent (18:36.569)
I'm yeah, brah, I'm a big boy runner too. I got a lot of body heat.

Philip J. Sebastiani (18:42.712)
But yeah, and really I think the last thing before I move on to the next topic is that a lot of this is also individualized to age, body fat, how much you sweat or don't sweat.

I so. All right, the next one is nutrition. We've talked about this back and forth a lot just in texting and seeing what works for me works for you. When you did Palo Duro last year, I saw what you were doing. You still doing those E-gels?

William Joseph Kent (19:13.595)
no, I've switched it up. I used so f-

have a shoe store here in Oklahoma that kind of helps me out with some gear and nutrition every now and again. And so I would just use whatever they had on hand because I didn't want to bother them or be a burden or whatever. So they always had e-gels It was like maxed out. It was like, OK, this gel has 100 calories. Well, it's got, I don't even know how many, it's got whatever, 250 or something like that. Or 150.

and all the electrolytes were way higher and everything with sodium was way higher. So was like, all right, I'm gonna use these. And I used them for five years straight. Nothing else. That and peanut butter.

And I've changed it up this year.

Philip J. Sebastiani (20:01.422)
There was something else I handed you when you would come through the aid. What was it? Besides the e-gels were you doing like stinger waffles or anything? No? Or are those the peanut butter balls you're talking about? Like there was something homemade. Is that it? is?

William Joseph Kent (20:11.332)
no.

William Joseph Kent (20:15.349)
yeah, maybe it was waffles. I was just trying them at that race and I couldn't choke those down. They're just too dry.

Philip J. Sebastiani (20:23.34)
Yeah, they do get dry, I agree.

William Joseph Kent (20:25.794)
And,

Yeah, but my thing for right now, I know everyone's freaking out about all these nutrition companies. It's so funny how these fads, it's almost like Abercrombie in the mall. You don't ever hear about that anymore. But now it's like, before it was Tailwind. Everybody's like, Tailwind is the best. Courtney Duhalter, yeah. And now it's like Hyperlite and that little dude who runs real fast. Hans, right.

Philip J. Sebastiani (20:55.982)
Han? Are you talking about Hans? Troy. Yeah, the dude's like the size of a... Not to speak negatively, he is insanely fast and talented, but yeah. He is young. He is young and fit.

William Joseph Kent (20:58.532)
That's like the new thing and everybody's like

William Joseph Kent (21:05.283)
I wasn't trying to be like

Yeah, I'm not trying to bash anybody, but I'm just, you know, it's that is the thing right now. Like it's just become. And it's all just salt, water and sugar. Like every single thing that we have is just in a different packaging with different colors. It's like candy.

Philip J. Sebastiani (21:26.06)
Yeah, we're definitely in the era of high carb. And I'm one of the people that believe it is going to eventually start crashing down and people are gonna start seeing the effects of always using that or always using that high of a carb source to fuel. mean, unless you're an elite that needs to push into...

those zones and needs the source, you know, needs the substrate to go that far and that long. Like you're just wasting money. In my opinion, getting something that is just overloading your body that you're not using, you're storing it instead of using it. So,

William Joseph Kent (22:11.525)
Yeah, because there's no long-lasting. It's not going to. So I use CARBS. That is my favorite.

Philip J. Sebastiani (22:19.842)
That is the name of the brand. CARBS. I'm going to Google this. Give me a second.

William Joseph Kent (22:21.051)
carbs carbs fuel it has 200 calories and has 50 grams of carbs and they're in $1.99 super cheap super worth it

Philip J. Sebastiani (22:34.05)
Very simple, simple packaging. Yeah, just as carbs in capital letters.

William Joseph Kent (22:36.504)
Right.

William Joseph Kent (22:39.955)
So man, and I went to this last race and two or three people were using them. It's just so easy. 200 calories. I'm a fat boy runner. Like I need like, and I need one of those every three to four miles. So you got to really think that's, you know, like I met a few runners recently that are struggling with diabetes and that route.

Philip J. Sebastiani (23:07.022)
That's one of the side effects of always sugar sugar sugar in these things. Definitely.

William Joseph Kent (23:16.069)
So I'm a little nervous about that because it runs in my family and I think it might run in your family as well. So I just like, yeah, I need to find a different source, but for right now that's working for me. I never found.

Philip J. Sebastiani (23:31.84)
I think how personally, how I counteracted is I just watch my like daily diet. then when I'm racing is where I'm really like, I guess training for a long run is when I'm really, I guess, maybe upping that sugar and stuff, but I'm burning it in the process too. So it's not like I'm over loading or over sugaring all the time in like a 60 minute run or, know, if you're going that short, you have enough glycogen stored up in your body. don't.

William Joseph Kent (23:47.823)
Right.

Philip J. Sebastiani (24:01.858)
When I remember when I was in high school, I did a 10 K race in the city and there's this guy in front of me. Like it was 10 K. So I was like six miles, you know, not far at all. And the dude had like eight gels on his little waist belt. And I'm like, dude, how often are you taking gels? Like, are you going to use all those? It was a 10 K. I was like, wow. Like it was just something. Yeah. That's, that's a. An example of overdoing fueling. cause that's going to also lead to GI distress and.

William Joseph Kent (24:17.146)
How long was the race?

Philip J. Sebastiani (24:32.782)
you know, puking and it's not a good performance. But I'm...

William Joseph Kent (24:38.395)
I think I struggle with under-fueling, to be honest, or under-doing everything. The gels, the salt, the everything. I just try to skate by.

Philip J. Sebastiani (24:48.642)
What do you target every hour? Exactly.

William Joseph Kent (24:51.067)
We talked about this he's over there like war Philip first of all Me and him have been really like in the beginning when we first met I feel like we were kind of just neck and neck, you know And we're he's always just like one race ahead of me or like one training block ahead of me on everything or like one So so anyways, he wanted to know how much salt I was taking in a race. I was like

I look back and I was like, man, I don't think any, like I would take like maybe one salt tab, like an hour maybe. you know, people don't know, Phillips been coaching some people for a while and he's very, he likes the data. He likes to look into things, likes to research the stuff. And I don't, I pride myself on.

not caring about anything and just going out and running. And it's starting to bite me. But what's the amount that's supposedly that you should take in, we'll say, on a spring day?

Philip J. Sebastiani (25:58.99)
Yeah. No, it depends on your sweat rate and things, but a good target for, you know, a lot of the general population is 1500 milligrams per per liter. That's kind of the middle. It's the middle of the bell curve. So personally I shoot around 1200 milligrams. So a liter for those us folks, it's like 32 ounces. So your, concentration should sit around that number.

Um, especially if, and if the weather's hot, you know, it's, need more, right? Cause sodium helps with your blood volume, keeping it up so that, you know, your muscles can work. You don't get, and having enough sodium on board helps your body retain the water and not get rid it. And you have to, if you have too much, get around the stomach problems, but most of the time you just pee it out. I mean, that's all the stuff that I've, uh, kind of learned over the years in my journey, but.

Back to what you just said, I'm injured right now, so I mean, this is your chance to catch up. Working through an injury.

William Joseph Kent (27:03.493)
yeah, it's got a little, injury festering like I did last year at the same time. Same exact time, January to April.

Philip J. Sebastiani (27:10.434)
Yes.

William Joseph Kent (27:13.359)
or January to March.

Philip J. Sebastiani (27:13.998)
That's a hot while. Yeah, I'm hoping by next month it clears up. But yeah, so back to nutrition and we'll move on to the next topic here.

William Joseph Kent (27:25.497)
I'm so excited, hold on, let's just talk about it real quick. Me and Philip in Oregon at the Gorge. Just think about that for a moment. Let it soak in everyone. I don't know who's listening, maybe nobody. All right, let's continue.

Philip J. Sebastiani (27:44.054)
I'm, I'm really excited to go to that race too, just to help out a fellow fellow runner man. It's going to be great to see. mean, that kind of my, my goal too, this year is to help help more. Cause like you, you know, you said that you're going to start picking and choosing where you go and race and lay it out. And you know, that's, that's what I'm thinking too. You know, getting older, it's like, if I'm to lay it out, it's going to count. And that's exactly what you're going to do with the Gorge.

Wanna see it.

William Joseph Kent (28:15.227)
Man, I hope so, And trying to be there to support other people. Last year, man, I tried. I kinda crude on a couple races or whatever, or kinda pace some people. It's hard. I realize how self-centered I am sometimes when it comes to running. And I got a buddy, shout out, Rhino, trying to qualify for the Boston. I hope I can...

come on and run next to him for a while and maybe crew some other people doing some big races soon.

Philip J. Sebastiani (28:53.824)
Or is they doing that? OKC? That's where he's playing. That's a good race. Besides the long hills through the neighborhoods, right? The rest of the races. You can definitely qualify there.

William Joseph Kent (28:55.928)
Okay, see ya.

William Joseph Kent (29:07.384)
It's a tough one to qualify at though. mean, there's a lot of elevation at that, that marathon.

but I don't know, I wanna like.

I have some other people that need some help on some longer runs, some very long runs. And I just,

Really, it doesn't necessarily come down to like, if I want to help, it just comes down to money, really, and time. Can I get over there? Can I be there?

But what are we doing? What's the next topic? You know, I get off subject. I got the attention span of a flea.

Philip J. Sebastiani (29:44.258)
Yeah.

Philip J. Sebastiani (29:48.718)
All right, we're almost halfway there. So the next one is, you know, breaking into ultra running scene. Like if I were a beginner runner trying to choose my first ultra, say let's go Texas and Oklahoma, where, what kind of races do you suggest?

William Joseph Kent (30:06.707)
man, that's fantastic.

That's super hard too. I was looking back at my Strava from five years ago and I was looking like, I didn't care about anything, but now I'm all kind of like, now I'm starting to like look at the news or whatever and look at the podcasts and all the information and see what runs are the best and which runs suck and whatever. And it just didn't matter then. It was just whatever race you wanted to do, just go do it.

Like if it's close to you, if your family can travel, that's what I would say. If you're just beginning, find races that your family can come to. now I've been doing this for a while and you know, I'm trying to get expand, but like your family wants to see you complete races and do good and enjoy what you're doing. So something close to your hometown.

there's not, for an Oklahoma, there's not a whole lot of races here. I think we have seven or eight ultras in Oklahoma.

Philip J. Sebastiani (31:23.585)
Only seven or eight.

I did not know that.

William Joseph Kent (31:27.867)
Yeah, it's lacking. Now, and I say Ultras by, I mean trail runs. I don't really consider pavement over 50K. I don't consider that an Ultra just because.

Philip J. Sebastiani (31:30.892)
Like 50k and above. You're saying there's like seven or eight and all.

William Joseph Kent (31:47.727)
I know, I separate the two. say, okay, marathon and under is on a road. Marathon and up is on a trail.

Philip J. Sebastiani (31:58.402)
Yeah, there's a lot of kind of looped things too. Some classics here, Thunderbird Trail Run. That's one you've done. Do Wackadoo.

William Joseph Kent (32:03.045)
Huh?

William Joseph Kent (32:09.371)
I live 10 miles from there.

Philip J. Sebastiani (32:13.112)
Dark and Dirty Miles, heard of that one. Lake Mc Murty, Flower Moon, Outlaw, yeah. Those are the classic Oklahoma races.

William Joseph Kent (32:23.707)
That's it. if you go to like Texas, now, well, you guys probably have 50, 50 ultras a year, maybe 100, I don't know.

Philip J. Sebastiani (32:32.622)
No, over 100. That's what ultra running magazine says 128. So that means like 50 K and above. So.

William Joseph Kent (32:38.831)
But shout out Texas Outlaw. They got some great races for some beginners, you know? And they're starting to, right.

Philip J. Sebastiani (32:46.126)
Always.

Really good atmosphere, easy, family owned, operated, Christian company, all those great things.

William Joseph Kent (32:57.787)
They're expanding a little bit, I feel like a lot of their races were.

Philip J. Sebastiani (33:00.408)
Just a little bit like a race every week, basically. It's wild.

William Joseph Kent (33:03.459)
Yeah, I mean you could always find one there because that's how I, you know, really started getting my foot in the door on a lot of ultras. Now I'm trying to expand and go to some bigger races, but if you're just starting to do it, that's my advice. Do one close to home.

Philip J. Sebastiani (33:28.93)
All right. All right. Next one. Let's talk about, I'm a brand new runner. What gear do I need for trail running? If I'm going to say I'm, doing switchbacks. Let's go over the recommended kit for something like switchbacks you just did.

William Joseph Kent (33:44.095)
man. So if everybody doesn't know, I call Philip the gear guy. So I went to his house to race Palo Duro 50 and I come to his house and there's like a pile of shoes at the front door and it's all Hokas. And then there's like another pile of shoes, more Hokas.

Philip J. Sebastiani (34:02.05)
Hey, that might, spoiler here, that might change here soon. Might have to see. Just stay tuned, that might be changing here. I might not be a solely Hoka person. Diversifying. what are you rocking now?

William Joseph Kent (34:17.143)
I just recently changed it up as well, but... Well, I'm talking about road shoes. I'm still rocking the Hokas Trails, but I am trying to switch to... What do you say? La Sportiva?

Philip J. Sebastiani (34:34.439)
yeah, I've heard of them. They back a lot of mountain athletes too. La Sportiva.

William Joseph Kent (34:41.435)
Right, feel like, look, I feel like me and Anton, I know this is crazy, but I feel like me and Anton have the same gait and I feel like we both get injured just as much. I don't even know how to say his name. Anton Krupica, is that how you say it? Krupica, Krupica? But, I'm telling you, and he wears those shoes and I just see his gait, hits this goofy looking gait.

Philip J. Sebastiani (34:46.766)
You

Philip J. Sebastiani (34:59.374)
Krupichka? Krupichka? That's probably, that's how I've heard it.

William Joseph Kent (35:11.731)
and he's been injured for like five years. Perfect. We're the same. I'm going to use those shoes.

Philip J. Sebastiani (35:18.51)
All right, sorry, I kind of caught us on a tangent there, but gear guy, go ahead and finish your thought there.

William Joseph Kent (35:26.267)
Yeah, I get distracted super easily runner runner runner Yeah, there's just stuff it I was like hey can I use a belt you're like you want this one or this one or I have this one or you need a heart rate monitor and you're like here's some shoes and there's all these it's just Beautiful house, but like all over the house is just running things If you just like look in a kitchen cabinet running things It's just awesome

I know where I was going with that. Oh yeah, so when it comes to like a race, I usually don't have anything. Like for this past race, I should not have worn tights. I know that. This race was a 50k. It had roughly 5,000 feet of elevation and it was, I don't know, 20 degrees, 25 degrees. Snow is still on the ground at the top of the mountain. Super rocky terrain.

very very rocky terrain like probably the toughest footing besides

another area I know, crossbar ranch.

Philip J. Sebastiani (36:37.962)
let's save that. Let's save that. We'll do that one at the end. I know, I know. I want to give you time to share that one.

William Joseph Kent (36:49.453)
Yeah, I would say I used to be always a vest guy and it just seemed like it was the way, like everyone had the best. But now that I look more into it, if you're looking for speed, if you're wanting to go fast, maybe go for a belt. vest, feel like would be a hundred miles plus or some.

some wilderness area that you don't know if you're gonna be able to get to another aid station. So 50K, all I had was a belt, gloves, salt tabs, and I brought six gels.

Philip J. Sebastiani (37:38.156)
all you ate 6 gels for 50k

Philip J. Sebastiani (37:43.507)
up those numbers man just still just a little bit exactly

William Joseph Kent (37:45.209)
Yeah I was hungry, I was starving. I was so freaking hungry and I had one bottle of water. So one bottle of water, six gels, but they're 200 calorie gels.

Philip J. Sebastiani (37:58.862)
Okay.

William Joseph Kent (38:00.091)
So, I mean, roughly 300 grams of carbs.

Philip J. Sebastiani (38:04.587)
I'm a-

I guess when I'm doing a long run, like three or four hours, like I'll just still just wear a vest. But if I'm racing, say 50 miles and below, yeah, I'll do bottles and belt. I think that's appropriate. Unless the aid stations are like eight or nine miles apart. That's also really dependent on what you're gonna kind of gear you're carrying, depending how far the aid stations are. Like when I did Sedona Canyons, I had to use vests for sure, because they were like...

12 mile sections between aid or something. So, I've asked because there was like 12 miles between aid and I was packing like four bottles with me time. Yeah, so really dependent on the course.

William Joseph Kent (38:37.211)
You had to use what?

William Joseph Kent (38:44.891)
You got a longer run like that. You never know what you're going to need. So you just need more storage, more spaces to carry things.

Philip J. Sebastiani (38:54.286)
I always need toilet paper.

William Joseph Kent (38:56.453)
Man, I've never brought toilet paper on a run and me and shout out Willow Gang. We went for a run with some friends and.

had to use a calf sleeve. Rest in peace.

Philip J. Sebastiani (39:14.579)
no... Not-

William Joseph Kent (39:15.451)
Maybe just start using some dude wipes or something.

Philip J. Sebastiani (39:18.126)
Not the gear.

Philip J. Sebastiani (39:22.114)
Yeah, just use, so mine's pretty simple. take like a Ziploc bag, section toilet paper, and then take some of those like doggy bags. You know, those like little, for like dog poop. And I stuff that in there and that's my like little like bathroom bag.

William Joseph Kent (39:38.053)
Bro, I just had to use leaves tonight. Wet, rainy leaves. I might've been poison ivy, I don't know.

Philip J. Sebastiani (39:44.958)
Ouch. Well, I guess you'll find out. You'll have to return a report on that.

Dude. Before I move on here, what are your favorite shoes to wear? Like on the trails? We talked about La Sportiva, but what about trail shoes?

William Joseph Kent (40:02.939)
This is struggle for me. So I've done pretty well. I'm gonna toot my own horn, but I've done pretty well in races and all every single race I've ever done except for The first couple where I was just kind of learning how to run on a trail was the Hoka Speed Goats

think I've gone through 20 pairs of speed goats. I love them. And this year, they really dropped the ball. I really, I thought...

Philip J. Sebastiani (40:35.118)
You don't like the sixes?

William Joseph Kent (40:39.503)
I know what happened. I feel like something happened between the beginning of last year, or sorry, June of last year and kind of the beginning of... I don't know what happened. I feel like something changed in the shoe. Something happened to the manufacturing. I don't know, but I wore them for 100 miler and it felt great in June.

I bought two more pairs a couple months ago and they are just rotten.

They're tough, they're hard, they're just unforgiving. It takes about 100 miles to break them in.

Philip J. Sebastiani (41:18.062)
That's not what you want. You want to like good out the box, right?

William Joseph Kent (41:20.379)
Let's ta-

Tell me who else got that email on their phone or that little screenshot thing that said, should we demote the goat?

Philip J. Sebastiani (41:32.541)
I haven't seen that. What is that?

William Joseph Kent (41:33.753)
demote the goat because it's just talking about like it's just not what it was the speed goat 5 blew the speed goat 6 out of the water and I guess I feel like that every time a new iteration of a shoe comes out but

Philip J. Sebastiani (41:36.11)
William Joseph Kent (41:51.097)
It's time to broaden my horizons and I really want to try some of the French companies but it seems like none of them have shoes I can try on here in Oklahoma, in the States. Like Solomon, you're nowhere to be found in Oklahoma.

Philip J. Sebastiani (42:12.076)
I haven't seen them in a Texas store either, to be honest.

William Joseph Kent (42:13.733)
For Teva, you're nowhere to be found.

And so I'm just not a big fan of ordering something online, getting it to my house and then finding out it's crap. And then I have to like go to the library because I don't have a printer and print off a label and then drive to the store and then send it back and wait three weeks and then get another shoe and three more weeks. It takes a two month deal to like get a pair of shoes. And I'm like, bro.

And I love OK Runner, that's my running store. the stores around here just don't carry the trail running things that we need a lot of the times.

Philip J. Sebastiani (42:56.46)
Yeah, unfortunately it goes back to supply and demand, right? You say in Oklahoma where you live, it's big road running community. So, unfortunately that's what it is.

William Joseph Kent (43:06.051)
Right, I mean if you want some, the endorphin speeds and all those good things and the mocks and all those fast road running shoes. But am I right? Is it like that in Texas?

Philip J. Sebastiani (43:20.172)
Our local running store, it's not, I mean, they have a wider variety of trail shoes now than they had in the past, but yeah, like they don't carry some of those other European brands, which would make sense. I our community I live in is primarily road too. Trail is starting to catch on.

William Joseph Kent (43:37.819)
So don't get me wrong, like, I have-

tons of trail shoes at OK Runner that I can pick from, but it's still like...

It seemed like those big names that are far off in the distance, we never get to see. I think somebody was on your podcast talking about the ultra glides and it warped my view a little bit.

Philip J. Sebastiani (44:03.072)
Yeah, I think they had just order them to without trying them on. So I was like, yeah, that's scary. Right. Thank you. I hope you listen this episode after we. Finished up. We have one more topic and then I'm going to let you, make that announcement about, about a new Oklahoma race, new and old Oklahoma race. so the last one's mental toughness in ultras. We've both been through some.

William Joseph Kent (44:09.243)
See, I listen to your show.

Philip J. Sebastiani (44:32.28)
pretty dark areas and I've seen you personally go through a really dark spot like when we did West Texas last year. How do you get through those personally? How do you stay mentally strong?

William Joseph Kent (44:45.807)
Man, yeah, for sure. That race, I was praising Jesus in the first half. In the second half, I was like crying and cussing and screaming. I was so hot and so tired and mad and I was just like, F this, Philip, I hate you. I hate this race.

Number one, I'm not one of those runners that...

I guess I'm not head strong, mental strong. I have to have music. I need headphones. So have a good playlist. Have a watch that doesn't disconnect Bluetooth 50,000 times.

Philip J. Sebastiani (45:32.952)
Didn't you just get a new watch?

William Joseph Kent (45:34.811)
yeah, a really up runner. I met at this last race, sold me this what's it called? Do you know what it's called?

Philip J. Sebastiani (45:45.27)
I think you told me it was Epix Pro or something like that. Hashtag Team Garmin for all those Coros runners out there. This is a Garmin podcast. Not sponsored by Garmin, but we're Team Garmin.

William Joseph Kent (45:47.085)
Epics Pro Gen 2? Something like that?

William Joseph Kent (45:54.403)
Yeah, it's Garmin only.

William Joseph Kent (45:58.971)
If you have a Coros or a Sunnto or whatever, just switch channels. No, not really.

Philip J. Sebastiani (46:07.906)
How's it going though? The new watch, you got a few runs on it.

William Joseph Kent (46:11.779)
yeah, it's fantastic. It does all kinds of weird things. It's like I wake up in the morning and it's like, Hey, best day ever. And I'm like, how'd you know that? Yes, it's kind of freaking me out.

Philip J. Sebastiani (46:19.714)
No, does the morning report? Yeah.

It tells you how much you slept, your body battery, like your stress level. Yeah, it tells you a lot.

William Joseph Kent (46:29.997)
yeah, just pretty much tells me I suck every day. It's like, good morning, you suck.

Philip J. Sebastiani (46:37.102)
Yeah, that's a really common thing in the Garmin community to be honest. Like wait till it tells you like unproductive for like three weeks or something.

William Joseph Kent (46:40.153)
You'll never amount to anything in life. Welcome to Garmin.

William Joseph Kent (46:48.089)
Yeah, and had a Forerunner, was the watch before, 245 Music. If you're just now starting ultras, I would recommend that watch a thousand times over. 245 Music. Cheap. Relatively cheap compared to running watches, and boy that thing, it's still going. I've had it for 3 or 4 years. It's still rocking.

William Joseph Kent (47:13.195)
Heart rate was a little off What was the question I got lost again, I don't eat I haven't eaten dinner I've just been running all night

Philip J. Sebastiani (47:18.702)
I'll take blame for that one too. Mental toughness in ultras. How do you get through it?

William Joseph Kent (47:27.579)
A big thing for trail runs is what goes up must come down. That is something I tell myself all during the whole race And what goes down must come up it's just like especially like When you got a big hill you're climbing up and you're out of breath and your heart rates like one bazillion and you're like I suck I can't do this I Should just quit But you're gonna go back down

Like you have to go back down. You can't just keep going up. You know what I mean? It's the same like with your emotions. What goes down will come back up. You just have to ride it out. It's so crazy. It doesn't make any sense at all. I started this run tonight. My coach scheduled me for 15 miles at an easy pace. And I was like, okay, I can do this. I started my run and I was like, I hate my life. This sucks.

and I got to mile two, mile three, I hate my life, this sucks. Mile six, still hate my life, this sucks. Mile eight, best day ever. I love everything. Mile 12, I am the best runner in the whole world. It's just weird how that works. You just gotta give it time. Maybe you gotta shake some stuff out. You gotta do some things.

Philip J. Sebastiani (48:49.134)
That second wind, they say, comes. I've had similar experiences.

William Joseph Kent (48:53.243)
Right and Philip dude know your strengths like what are your strengths like You know what you're good at like for me super technical terrain. I do well in like if you just started running like

You know, maybe don't go to Black Canyons this year. You know what I mean? Unless you just want to like...

Philip J. Sebastiani (49:21.141)
Unless you wanna...

William Joseph Kent (49:24.889)
the experience, but.

Philip J. Sebastiani (49:28.002)
Yeah, experience of hundreds of runners, all so capable and all just running so fast and yeah, it's a good race. It's on my list too, one of these days. one of these years.

William Joseph Kent (49:39.739)
One these days, right. But like, yeah, know your strengths. I mean, if you're not doing well in some areas, don't get down, don't get discouraged, because obviously you know you're not that great in that spot.

I don't know.

Philip J. Sebastiani (49:56.322)
Yeah, I like that though. Knowing your strengths, being realistic with where you are in the moment and working towards the end. One thing I always think about is, I'm here in this moment it may never come again. So we gotta make the best of it.

William Joseph Kent (50:13.039)
Yeah, we're there's a lot of people that don't get to do any of this, you know what mean? The running store that I go to, they do a bunch of races and send money to like the wheelchair athletes and things like that, but it's like...

It's so hard to even think that though, because you're all like picking yourself apart on a run, but you have to be like, some people don't even have legs. And you're like complaining about like, shoes didn't fit very well and I didn't run very fast up that hill. And I'm like, shut up, dude, just go run or girl.

Philip J. Sebastiani (50:53.196)
Yeah, put it in perspective, I have similar sentiments since I work in special ed, so I see a lot of support my students need and I'm grateful for what I can do every day.

William Joseph Kent (51:08.909)
Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!

Philip J. Sebastiani (51:10.166)
Yeah. Well, that was all five topics that we had. Yeah. We, touched on them more or less. You have to really, really listen to hear the nuggets there. but before we mean, you know, end this episode, I want you to talk about what's happening in November. Was it at Arbuckle? November of this year, turn the volume up. Listen to what Will has to say.

William Joseph Kent (51:13.637)
Was it? Let me look at my phone.

William Joseph Kent (51:29.285)
I'll snap.

William Joseph Kent (51:36.693)
snap, hold on, I got two things to say. I just got a text from my girlfriend, Jessie. She just signed up for Cross Timbers Trail Run, which is the oldest trail run in Texas. Snap. I guess I'm crewing. Best day ever.

Philip J. Sebastiani (51:41.902)
Shout out to Jesse.

that is correct. I have heard that.

Philip J. Sebastiani (51:52.62)
What is it? What is that one? Maybe I'll drag Kaycee down there too.

William Joseph Kent (51:53.691)
March 1st.

William Joseph Kent (51:57.955)
Yeah, I think Rhino's doing it. think Jessica's doing it. There's a bunch of doing it. think.

William Joseph Kent (52:13.989)
kind of helped out. I put on a race last year. helped. had some Texas Outlaw help me. I kind of had a dream of putting on a little race in Oklahoma. And I wanted it to be really, really difficult.

Philip J. Sebastiani (52:34.23)
It is. That course is insane. I ran it.

William Joseph Kent (52:36.437)
Yeah, I figured I wanted it to be the most difficult in Oklahoma and I have now ran both the other races that claim that they are the most difficult races and I really don't think they got it on me, on mine, but that's for other people to decide, not me.

So yeah, Texas Outlaw helped me bring that dream alive. We put on a race there, a hundred mile race at the time we called it the Arbuckle 100. Some people were mad, some people were happy. was just a, it was a very tough race and yeah, people got lost, bashed their heads into rocks, got just stormed out, rained out. I still have people yelling at me. This last race were yelling at me.

Philip J. Sebastiani (53:14.862)
Some people were hallucinating.

William Joseph Kent (53:28.901)
like, we hate that race killed us or whatever. We decided to go separate ways, do our own things. Texas Outlaws doing their own thing. And I'm just kind of just being crazy William here in Oklahoma, but.

I thought about it for a while and I was like, man, I really need to bring it back. It was just a bad time to bring it back.

This past couple of months has been rough in a lot of ways, but November 1st.

The best day ever, Ultra, will be at Crossbar Ranch, November 1st. It's gonna be up on Ultra sign up. I would say, I wanted to say next week, but I said give it two weeks. Best day ever, Ultra.

Philip J. Sebastiani (54:12.144)
I love it.

Philip J. Sebastiani (54:29.73)
what distances you're gonna have on the best day ever.

William Joseph Kent (54:32.264)
10K, 20K, 50 mile, 100 mile. You can do one lap or two laps on either course.

It's gonna be a lot of Bullcrap, there's gonna be a lot of ATV riders. There's gonna be it's gonna be miserable. There's gonna be about 17,000 feet of elevation it's It's gonna break you and you're probably not gonna finish the hundred-miler. So I'm not changing it's 30 hours. I'm not giving you no more extra given I don't care if you're old if you're tired, it's 30 hours If you can't do it, can't do it

Philip J. Sebastiani (54:59.566)
What's your cutoff for the 100 miler? When you giving people? 30 hours.

Philip J. Sebastiani (55:10.05)
It's doable.

William Joseph Kent (55:12.891)
We'll see what happens. try, I wanna make it just a chill race. Hot dogs and beer. Best day ever. Just hang out. Bring as much stuff as you can, cause I'm not gonna supply a million things. You know, it's gonna be a true, I want it to be a true ultra. It's not gonna be pampered. Yeah, no, it's not gonna be pampered.

Philip J. Sebastiani (55:36.404)
Old school ultra. Yes. You win the course.

William Joseph Kent (55:42.181)
But I got some help with some people here and we'll just see how goes.

Philip J. Sebastiani (55:49.838)
Yeah, I can wrangle a High Plains Elite man person or two. Yeah, I'll help you out. I'll help you out. I'll help you out. All right, so November 1st of this year, best day ever Ultra. I love it.

William Joseph Kent (55:55.577)
KZ!

Philip J. Sebastiani (56:05.89)
Well, we made it this far in the episode. Thank you for listening to Words with Will. Any last words, Will?

William Joseph Kent (56:14.907)
I don't know. This is fantastic Philip. I'm so glad that you asked me to come on here. I was I Was nervous since I'm still nervous. I keep rubbing my head. He's so calm He looks if you can't see him on on this video, but he's just drinking a glass of water all just he looks very well composed and I'm over here just like anxious nervous freaking out anyways, yeah last words

William Joseph Kent (56:45.039)
Don't pay attention to all the stuff. Don't look at all the stuff. Don't freak out. Don't be looking at Ultra Sign Up every day and Strava every day and comparing yourself. Don't let the comparison to others steal your joy. Follow the Lord. Love your life. Just run and have fun.

Philip J. Sebastiani (57:05.899)
All right. Thanks, Will.