EP 63: Sherry Syence on the Business of Influence and Rethinking Health Messaging

How do the messages we see every day shape what we believe about health, medicine, food, and our families?

In this episode, Cathy Meehan welcomes Sherry Syence, award-winning journalist, media strategist, and founder of Rethinking Health, for a conversation about the power of messaging and the way public opinion is shaped through advertising, public relations, social media, and large-scale awareness campaigns.

Sherry shares how her background in journalism, advertising, and communications led her to create Rethinking Health, a nonprofit focused on using media and messaging to encourage better health decisions, stronger critical thinking, and a renewed sense of personal responsibility. Together, Cathy and Sherry discuss public health messaging during COVID, the role of the Ad Council, pharmaceutical and food advertising, youth mental health, autism awareness, and why families need trusted resources in a world filled with constant influence.

This conversation covers:

• How advertising and public messaging influence behavior
• Why fear and repetition can be powerful tools in public health campaigns
• The role of the Ad Council and large-scale awareness campaigns
• How pharmaceutical and food advertising shape health decisions
• Why parents need to help children build critical thinking skills
• The mission behind Rethinking Health
• Youth mental health, depression, and the need for deeper conversations
• Autism awareness and the importance of understanding the full spectrum

For parents, caregivers, and health-conscious families, this episode is an invitation to slow down, ask better questions, and become more thoughtful stewards of your family’s health. Listen, share, and use this conversation as a starting point for deeper discernment and more informed decisions.

GENERAL LINKS:
MeehanMD - Schedule your FREE Consultation Today
https://meehanmd.com
MINDSETkids - Your Pediatric Alternative
https://meehanmd.com/mindsetkids
Emergency Med Kits
https://meehanmd.com/emergency-med-kits

SOCIAL MEDIA:
Facebook:

MeehanMD https://www.facebook.com/JimMeehanMD

MINDSETkids https://www.facebook.com/MINDSETkidshealth

Instagram:

MeehanMD https://www.instagram.com/docmeehan/

MINDSETkids https://www.instagram.com/mindsetkidshealth/

Websites:

MeehanMD https://www.meehanmd.com/

MINDSETkids https://www.mindset-kids.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Today, we're tackling a topic that affects every one of us, whether we realize it or not. It's the power of messaging and how public opinion is shaped. I like to call it the business of influence. My special guest is Sherry Science, and she is an award-winning journalist, a media strategist, and the founder of Rethinking Health. Sherry spent her life just helping organizations to really shape their message, which influences public understanding and hopefully drives change. And today we are going to talk about how some of these health narratives are formed when it comes to advertising and public opinion. We're specifically going to talk about some organizations like the Ad Council and how other large-scale public awareness campaigns literally changed the way people followed in line like sheep during COVID. We have to understand that we are impacted by messaging thousands of times every single day. We have billboards, we have television commercials, we have ads that pop up on our computer screen. You might be scrolling through social media and you're getting all kinds of feeds based on your algorithm. The crazy thing was what happened during COVID, people? How many people literally lined up like sheep, didn't question the narrative, and went directly to get a vaccination so that they could make everyone else safe. What a lie. What do we need? We need an alternative. We need a place for trusted health resources. And we need to create some critical thinkers out there. Well, that's exactly what Sherry has done with rethinking. So please let's get started and let's welcome Sherry. And Sherry has been in this what I call business of influence for decades. She is the professional to go to, and she's been helping organizations with their messaging, how to get it out, how to influence decisions. So, Sherry, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me, Kathy. It's a pleasure to be here with you. Well, I was so excited that you agreed to be on the podcast because, you know, we met during um, basically during the COVID years and all when all of this advertising is going on and you see this like message, and everyone is like whether fearful or seeking information. But I found it really interesting that people literally were able to be, you know, marched like sheep into lines when it came to getting your COVID vaccination or standing six foot uh, you know, distance or wearing a mask. And, you know, this public messaging and these campaigns, why are some of them so effective? What were they doing?

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Well, that's a great question. And I think each campaign, I'll call it, is is really different. But when it comes to COVID, I mean, that was a public health emergency. And um our government officials worked hand in hand with big tech, um, online communities, and what I believe was sold was um fear, right? And that's really what was a big motivator of getting people to stand six feet apart and to get vaccinated. Um using fear as the major psychological motivator of the campaign. But it's a lot more complicated than that.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Yeah. Yeah, it really is. Um, you know, I feel like they a lot of times, um, you know, their goal, I guess, was to change people's minds in whatever direction they were going. And I want to take this to a broader thing of just advertising in general, because really that's your specialty. Because it seems like advertising's goal is to get people to change their minds, right? Or get them to going into a new direction. And what type of things do companies or organizations use when they are trying to change direction of a mind, besides things like fear? I mean, um, give me some background information on exactly how advertising campaigns work.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Okay, another really good question. And none of them are exactly alike. And I like to think of it instead of just advertising, messaging as well, because it really it's advertising in messaging and PR that work in tandem to shape behavior. And that is what I realized after spending all of my time in communications in one area or the other. I told you I started out as a broadcast journalist, and then I grew up in an ad agency household. My mom had a very big ad agency in the DC area. I spent a lot of time in there. I worked in broadcasting, I worked in her agency, then I went out on my own and started working in corporations and then eventually started my own consultancy. And so, whether it's an ad or whether it's corporate messaging or a PR campaign, there are underpinnings that drive them all. And it is the messaging. With the ads, uh most of the ads that we see are really designed to drive consumption and to drive certain behaviors, but but predominantly to drive consumption. So, or sales, that's another thing, but um, they really go hand in hand.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

So when you work with an organization, um, do they typically, and I I'm just using this for an example, I know that I am, I have an organization, I have a clinic, and I work with a marketing company, and I try to get them to help me sell my product. So they ask me all kinds of questions on like who my audience is, um, what type of sales I'm, you know, hoping for, and all of these standard, you know, markers and goals and everything. And I have to tell you, it is not that easy when it comes to um, if you want to call it, you know, creating that message. What types of um things do you ask clients when they're trying to pull out um, you know, what is their what is their message that they want to sell? And then how do you turn that into like an ad campaign?

SPEAKER_02 7:38

Well, those are sort of two different things because when I work with clients, it's a little bit different than perhaps other marketing or advertising or communication consultants might. So I really tap into what is your biggest challenge? Who are you trying to serve? Who's your, you know, your target audience, your stakeholders, what are your differentiators, what types of things have you been doing that that have been working for you, what hasn't been working? And then I look at the communications, and that's really where all of these separate areas converge, is they're all external communications, the way you're reaching different audiences. And so when it comes to advertising, um we're going up a couple of levels, right? The way that that your clinic might advertise is very different than the way a Fortune 100 or 500 company might advertise. And and these industries, they're spending billions and they're doing it around the clock. So there is a big difference.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Yeah, well, and I was just thinking the same. Yeah, I wish I had that advertising budget for it for a small clinic. But you know, the other thing is when you talk about their advertising like around the clock, that just made me think of social media and how social media also influences people's decisions, plus the algorithms. And I'll tell you, I think it's it's almost overwhelming some of the messages that I get when I'm just scrolling and and everything. And I feel like I'm gonna go back to COVID um and kind of step backwards a little bit because that messaging for COVID when it came to fear and when it came to what that message was, which was we had to get vaccinated, we had to wear masks, we had to, you know, separate each other by six feet, I feel like there had to have been um like this table or conference table of people sitting around this that came out with that messaging. And I mean, what's behind that big tech corporate advertising when they have a message that big to get out to everyone? Who who dictates those?

SPEAKER_02 10:07

Well, I mean, again, a good question. So those dictates or mandates came from the government and also state governments. But interestingly, what I found out um through looking at the ad council is that they had a group called the COVID Collective, and they engaged about 300 program partners to get the message out. And I initially thought that they did that just because of COVID, but actually they have ongoing institutional stakeholders who are their program partners, like Google and the AMA and DARPA. Um, so they utilize their vast, vast network to influence behavior and created messaging and ads that were very sophisticated. And they and a lot of them used influencers and leaders to get those messages out.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Can you step back just a little bit and actually tell our audience what is the ad council? Because I've heard that term before, but I'm not sure exactly it what is the ad council.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Sure. So the ad council is a nonprofit organization that was formed in the 40s initially as a war council, then it changed its name to the advertising council. But really, what it is, is it's a coalition of institutional stakeholders. And their their message is we convene the best storytellers to educate, inspire, and uplift. Um, they are the same group that in the 40s created Smoky the Bear. Um, and that has been an ongoing campaign. In the 50s, uh, they had campaigns to convince the public to get the polio vaccine. And they've done other campaigns as well, like friends don't let friends drive drunk. Um, they they do a lot of emergency disaster preparedness. And so they partner with industry and with the government to get different messages out. And and they're across all spectrums, not just self.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

I mean, it sounds like some of those things were only for the better of humanity, right? You know, to create awareness. I remember Smokey the Bear growing up, and I guess he's still out there, but um, I think, you know, really when it came to COVID, that they really were, oh gosh, they were so powerful in organizing the message, and I guess, you know, all of the people or the tentacles, if you want to call it that, that came out under them. Um I personally feel that, you know, it really caused a lot of distrust once COVID was washed away. Um, and now that we're seeing all of the damage, whether it's, you know, people were harmed, the fact that, you know, masks never did work in the first place, Dr. Fauci, and you knew that. Um, whether it was, you know, are vaccines safe and effective, now that's starting to, you know, implode upon themselves. They've really seems to have lost trust. How do consumers distinguish between um when they're being educated on good things, but whether they're being persuaded? I mean, how do we decipher what's good for us when they're just advertising what's best for them?

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Well, that's another great question. I mean, all of these are very, very nuanced areas, and it takes uh a very, you know, sometimes sophisticated, you know, level of understanding to know what's driving a message and whether something is a marketing slogan or a fact. And so you take safe and effective, that is a marketing slogan. That is not a fact, and so it's really up to every person to do extensive research and not just take the messages that they're hearing and say, oh, okay. But I mean, when I when I say it's complicated, so the the point is really, I mean, you can look at it a couple of ways. And when I bring up the ad council and how effective they are, it's really the fact that they do use advertising to basically have creative content to drive behaviors, and so that's the power of advertising and messaging is it is used to drive behaviors.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

So yeah, well, I I think really what you hit on was people need critical thinking skills. So whatever you're told, don't believe it or you know, figure out what your source is. But going back to critical thinking skills, which I don't think we have enough people using their brains. We really don't. And you know, even our children are, I believe a lot of them are programmed through the public education system to sit down, pay attention, follow rules, and you know, go with the crowd. And I don't know, what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 15:54

Well, um, I spent a lot of time in my children's, you know, elementary school when they were younger, some of the so much time, in fact, some people thought I actually worked there, but um, you know, and and I saw how the kid, I mean, wonderful, loving staff, beautiful, sweet school with a strawberry pouch outside and chickens. But um, I also watched the way that they treated some of the kids, and and I remember once I was going to have lunch with my kids in the lunchroom, and we were walking down the hall, and I was whispering something in my daughter's ear, and she said, Mom, it's code zero, which meant you do not talk. You are quiet, you stand up straight, and you just, you know, sort of march in line. Yeah. Yes, march in line, like you're in the military. And I said, I'm your mother. Like I whispered back to her, I was like, I don't care, I'm your mother. So they are sort of programming and conditioning kids, and um, you know, again, it's really a nuanced subject because, excuse me, it it's it's not just the ads, right? You can look at a singular ad, but it's really the fact that we're being hit with messaging. You you mentioned social media. We on average are being hit with about 10,000 messages a day. It's it's nonstop.

SPEAKER_04 17:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

So when that's all you see, hear, experience, when you get a message over and over and over again, it almost doesn't even matter, Kathy, if it's true. It it penetrates your psyche. And then you start to believe it as fact because you hear it, you see it, you experience it over and over and over again, 24, 7, 365 days a year.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

So you start to believe everything as truth, and and you're not really, some people are not really separating, okay, this is an ad, or this is a sophisticated message that was created by a PR professional. They don't really have necessarily the ability to distinguish the two.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

And you were talking about the repetition and just seeing the same thing over and over. And I recall back in my early days when I was a pharmaceutical rep, we really talked about how it took um eight calls on a physician before you could change his prescribing habits. So that meant I had to visit that office eight times, have a conversation before I could even expect him to, you know, switch from product A to my product. And um, but that was, you know, really where that repetition came in. And I just had this flashback. I remember, remember the two weeks to flatten the curve? Isn't that what it was? Two weeks to flatten the curve. And I, you know, I was home, some of my kids were still at home at the time, and on the television, I just remember these ads that would come across. And it was just like a a bright screen with words, and that was it. But it was the same thing over and over. And oh my gosh, I just feel like now it's like they are treating humans like robots, whether it's the COVID message or whether it's a message on, you know, my favorite things Mountain Dew, McDonald's, and Krispy Kreams. You know, the more they can get that out in front of you, um, the more it just becomes, I don't know, I guess normal behavior or whatever. And maybe that's why I don't have a TV anymore. So I can't.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Yeah. I mean, we we don't have a TV and have not had one for over a decade. We don't have one in our house. People are like, you've got to be kidding me. Yeah, I don't have one either. My children have also never had fast food, but we're we're a different, a different kind of family. But um when I do go someplace, like we go on a trip and I'll go to a hotel, and then you know, the kids will turn on the TV and then I'll hear these ads and I'll be like, turn this off. It's it's it's actually very jarring and it's interesting because I used to be, you know, uh a radio news anchor and I would hear ads all the time. I was a DJ, I would hear ads, and now I hear ads, and I'm like, oh, turn this off because it it is, it's jarring.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Well, you know, I think it's very important um when we talk about critical thinking skills and you as a parent and for all the other parents out there, what are some things maybe that parents can do to help build their child's critical thinking skills when it comes to what they see on social media or TV for those seeing TV or even billboards, those types of things. How can parents help their children um, you know, develop those critical thinking skills?

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Well, I think, first of all, limiting the amount of time on social because you really don't, I mean, you most parents don't have it depends on the age of the child, right? If you're talking about a younger child, you can have pretty good control over what those kids are looking at and for how long. But I I think there, I think parents do need to be a lot more involved regardless of whether a kid is eight or sixteen. Excuse me, what what are or what are my kids you know looking at? So that's one thing is actually limiting social media exposure and and and limiting TV because content that's the whole thing. It's like with Google, you can pull up good content or you can pull up bad content. And it's really it really takes a lot of discernment to understand like what is trustworthy and what is not. But I think it also encouraging. Reading and also not necessarily taking everything you hear at face value as the absolute truth, because everybody has their absolute truth, right? But there's variations of truth. And so I think I think that's a really important part of critical thinking is using your own judgment and your own discernment and and and doing some research and not just accepting what authority figures tell you is the fact. And I'm not trying to convince anybody to not listen to authority or to not listen to their teachers. But if you hear something and it doesn't sound right to you, or you have questions, ask questions or do your own research. So many people, as you know, let's take medicine, they go to their doctors and they have a 10, 12-minute appointment, and there's not really a lot of time in there for an in-depth discussion. And so people leave with a pill or prescription and they don't ask questions. Um and so they're not really doing good research, is, you know, is this the best thing for me or is this the best thing for my kid? Because we are so rushed and we live in such a fast-paced environment. And a lot of that too has to do with, you know, this convenience culture that we live in and all the quick fixes that are that are out there as well.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Yeah, well, especially when it comes to medicine, I know that, you know, people talk about where your message comes from. When your message is coming from a physician who is a person of authority, you expect them to have already done the research, which I, you know, you're talking to Kathy, so of course I'm gonna bring up vaccinations. When my children were growing up, you know, I went to the pediatrician, I respected their authority. I had assumed they knew everything about the vaccinations, so I didn't even question it when it came to vaccinating our children. And it's, you know, that's oh, that's why I just wish people would share more knowledge. Because I always say, if somebody would have just said, hey, before you go to the pediatrician, have you ever researched vaccines? I wish somebody would have just asked me if I researched them. And I would have been like, no, I don't need to. And if that person would have just said, well, you might want to, and here's some resources. Um, and and that just goes, you know, I'm kind of maybe a little bit off topic, but I just want to get that out there. That um to help other people become critical thinkers by giving them, you know, questions like, have you thought about this or have you looked into this? And that might be, you know, in raising children. Um when there's a commercial that comes, you know, along the TV or whatever. Well, maybe sit down with your child on, well, how can we really dig into that and teach them how to research or and teach them how to question? But um, we really, really need more critical thinkers in the entire population and at every age. And I think that would um that's also gonna help lessen this division that we have because we know that a lot of the programming is designed to divide people. And it's rather than having people debate and respect one another's opinions, it's really just designed to divide us and to hate one another. And so I really think that we do need more critical thinkers to go for that. So, that being aside, what I really want to get into, Sherry, is what you're up to now. And that is rethinking health, because we can talk about all of these problems when it comes to the messages and the advertising and how they're programming people, but we need an alternative. And I do want to thank you, and I will let everybody know that um I am on the board with Rethinking Health with Sherry, and it is a phenomenal, phenomenal organization. So, Sherry, would you also please just um tell everybody a little bit, you know, how you came up with the idea to create your own Rethinking Health and how's that mission going?

SPEAKER_02 26:40

Thanks so much, Kathy, and I really appreciate you being a part of my organization and help leading the way for a new way of thinking. And that's what we're really interested in is you know, we talked about the ad council, and and the ad council covers a lot of different areas, as I said, from transportation to health to emergency preparedness. And we are a little bit different. We are focused exclusively on health. And what what my vision was when I created this nonprofit is realizing that we really had a problem with our our messaging. And so we have, as I said, nonstop messaging 24-7 telling us, you know, what to buy, what to think, what to wear, you know, what to be afraid of, and even what's normal. And a lot of these are very sophisticated ad campaigns. But what really struck me is that almost none of these messages were designed to make us any healthier. So I came up with this inspiration to start rethinking health, to use advertising and media and messaging to change not just behaviors, but the way people look at health, as not a quick fix, not a diagnosis, and not a prescription, but as a mindset.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Are you familiar with that word, mindset? I am, I am. And I'm also liking because you are encouraging people to think, which is creating those critical thinkers. Then that's really brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

Yeah, and so the thing of it is is people, okay, some people love to be told what to do, right? But that's not what we are trying to do. What we are trying to do is to educate people and inspire them and empower them and to show them different things and have them make up their own mind because they're told, you know, don't question your doctor, don't ask questions, don't do research. My my question back is why not? Why not ask those questions? So it's really so important that each person, look, there's no one size fits all anything in this world. It's up to each person to decide what is best for him or her.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

When your child gets sick, the hardest part is often knowing what to do next. At Mindset Kids, we help you prepare ahead of time with trusted guidance, practical tools, and education that helps you care for your child at home with confidence. We provide you the tools in a handy home kit and natural health guide. Now you can assess symptoms, understand your next steps, and know whether to treat at home or contact us for more advanced care with one of our pediatric providers. Join today at mindset-kids.com. You have some slides to share with us to kind of love to. I would love for you to share those and um because it also gives a great example of what's going on, so I'll let you take it over from there.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Yeah, so Rethinking Health is a nonprofit, and we really want to transform public health, not just through advertising and media, but also as a big cultural initiative. And that's another difference between what the ad council is doing and what we want to do. The ad council is focused on singular behaviors. And while we want to use advertising and media to change behaviors, we're also hoping for a big cultural shift. And I'll I'll I'll get to that in just a few minutes. So this is the pharmaceutical industry, and they're spending about $36 to $40 billion. That's what they're poised to spend this year, on marketing and advertising. And it's very interesting, not all of that is direct to consumer. A good portion of that is spent influencing doctors. And so you have an industry that is influencing consumers and influencing physicians and institutions. So it's almost like a double whammy.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Yeah. Well, I want to note there that, you know, when I was in pharmaceuticals and it was, it's been years, probably, oh goodness, uh 20, around 27-ish years, almost 30 years ago. And I remember that our company, it was then it was shearing plow, and we had a product called Claritin, which I'm sure many of you have heard of. And we were one of the very first commercials on television when they decided to let pharmaceutical companies, you know, um, you know, advertise to the public. And we were like so excited. We were like, yay, we're gonna have commercials. The you know, consumers gonna run into their doctor's office and ask for Claritin, and everything's gonna be great. And if you guys remember that far back, if you're old enough, Joan London was our spokesperson. So we found an influencer and she did a television commercial for us. In fact, several of them never did we realize the slippery, slippery slope that we were on. But the other part, which you mentioned, was not only were we educating the consumer and the you know hopeful patient, but we were also using that advertising to get our face in front of the doctor. Because you remember, I said that it would take us an average of eight calls to a physician to get them to remember our product. Well, by putting it on television, if the doctor is going home at night and he's watching the news or whatever, Claritin commercials are gonna come across. So he's gonna get that recognition there of Claritin. And just like if you uh if you watch TV nowadays, and you know, sporting events are sponsored by Pfizer, or you know, you've got these daytime television shows sponsored by a pharmaceutical company. So the media use of like television ads and the amount of money, which you just said, 36 to 40 billion dollars, and that's annually.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

That is annually, and that does not include lobbying, and the pharmaceutical industry spends you know almost half a billion now on lobbying. That's separate. But the interesting thing, if you look at this slide, Kathy, since the year 2000, the pharmaceutical industry has more than doubled what it's spending on marketing and advertising, and our prescription drug spending has quadrupled just about. So we have more marketing, which translates into more medication. Advertising works. If it did not work, these corporations would not be spending billions of dollars to use it as a tool to drive consumption and behavior.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

So the next industry is the food and beverage industry. They're spending about 14 billion every year advertising fast food, junk food, candy, sugary drinks. Um, most of these ads, my research found, are aimed at children. Excuse me, and not just children, at black and Hispanic children. So if you're a black or Hispanic child, you are about three times more likely to see an ad for any of these highly processed food products and soft drinks as if you're white. And so it really is, you've heard with a marketing background, like who's your target market? That's the first thing everybody wants to know. This really is a systemic targeting because those communities have higher incidences of diabetes, obesity, and other food-related illnesses that actually are a leading cause of death in this country. So we we should all be much, much more concerned about our obesity rates than we are. And there is a direct correlation between what people are putting in their bodies and our obesity epidemic. And it is an epidemic.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

So if you look at this slide, it's the same thing. Since 2000, the amount that's being spent on food advertising has about doubled. And I just picked because there's so many different categories, I picked packaged food sales, but those have gone up about two and a half times. So they go hand in hand. And again, more marketing, more junk food consumption. We are up to about $1.2 trillion in sales for packaged foods every year. It's an astronomical amount. It's an astronomical amount. I also found out that, you know, McDonald's, you you were mentioning um sporting events. So all of these organizations, Coke is doing FIFA, you know, the they they are really advertising heavily. And so with fast food, I think the stat I found is that on any given day, about 30% of the population eats fast food. But in a given week, it's 80%, supposedly, of the US population is eating fast food, an astronomical amount.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

People, we gotta stop that. We gotta stop that.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

And this is not meant to shame anybody, but when you look when you look at how we're doing, um, you know, you look at our health scorecards, it's not good. We have a very, very sick population.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Right. And also, I mean, it you're right, it's not to shame anybody because what most people don't realize, and they they just they just think that food is not going to be poisonous or food is not going to be hurting their system. But now that we are starting to see, you know, the dyes are harmful. Some of the ingredients are even carcinogenic. I mean, when you look at all of these things that are in our products, people are just eating them, not even thinking about what it's going to do to their health. And so that's again where we need some more critical thinkers. And if people would just start reading their labels, because your food is directly um influencing your health. So all it should be. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

And one one good common sense piece of advice I've heard is if you read a label and you can't pronounce something that's on it or you don't know what it is, you shouldn't buy it. And so when I go grocery shopping with my kids, look, we don't eat a perfect diet. But when they say, Mom, can we get this? And I'll say, look at the label. And sometimes they put it in the shopping cart, and sometimes they have to put it back on the shelf.

SPEAKER_03 38:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

So good call. Good call. Really, really important. So another big advertiser, Kathy, is the Modern Ag Alliance. And this is an industry coalition that was started by Bayer. And the interesting thing is not so much the issue of glyphosate and whether it's good for the environment or bad for the environment. And we have so much evidence showing that it's harmful to the environment and harmful to human health. But they too now are engaging in advertising and using campaigns to reach farmers and to reach the public to tell them: hey, without our product, you're not going to be able to eat. We are providing a crop protection tool. And so this is a very nuanced ad campaign and PR campaign. And this was not a spontaneous grassroots coalition. This is openly an organization that was started by Bear Monsanto. So they, you know, you can see the ads up on the screen. When farmers lose, family pay the price. Um, and so they're also heavily engaged in lobbying. And they are using these ads very effectively to change public opinion and to change farmers' opinions and consumers' opinions. And it's working. Advertising works. And so that's one of the ideas behind rethinking health is we want to use ads it to drive healthier behaviors. That's what we want.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Yeah. Well, you know, it's really interesting. I want to stay on this whole glyphosate issue because um, if many people don't know, um it was Monsanto, is the maker of glyphosate, and they were purchased by Bayer. And you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure. So, and then after Bayer purchases them, Monsanto is losing these court cases because glyphosate causes cancer. It is a fact. And so I guess what you're telling me here is that they created this modern, or Bayer created this modern ag alliance to protect their name because people are starting to retaliate or not purchase glyphosate. And so this is a case of where when you hear advertising, you really need to put on your critical thinking skills because who are they advertising for and who are they trying to protect? Because to me, it sounds like Bayer created this to protect their own sales. When I want to go back to the whole thing, is why not just make a better product?

SPEAKER_02 41:23

But you can give me your two cents on that. I mean, I have lots of different opinions on this. But when when corporations have their profits, you know, um when when they're at stake, that's when they start launching PR campaigns. And then if you have an integrated campaign, you will create core messaging and then you'll weave that messaging and you'll use that message with your lobbying, you'll use it in your print ads, you'll use it on TV, you'll you'll you'll even weave it into the scientific literature. And so it is very, very persuasive.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

100%. Yeah. So I said, why don't we just make a better product?

SPEAKER_02 42:10

But well, I mean, I think there are better products out there, and I think people people are using them. But the sad part is is that we when we go to the grocery store, we don't always have a say on what's sprayed on our products. And I actually don't think, I think if I went and just did a random, you know, man on the street tally, I don't necessarily think that everybody is even aware that there's harmful pesticides sprayed on the produce that they eat. But yes, why don't we use safer products? Because I think in this instance, you'd be crushing an industry. So there's your answer.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

Yeah, what's what's some solutions there? That's what we need. We need solutions.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

Yes. Well, my solution is rethinking health to create campaigns that really educate people on these different topics and um that that inform them of what's you know, what's being put in their food. Um, we want to launch campaigns across all different areas of health. So, which I will show you some of our campaigns in in just a moment. We we talked about the ad council, and they are another big advertiser that is using creative content to influence people's health decisions. And they do have partners like the AMA and Google. And as I mentioned, their their efforts go back to the 50s with polio with health, and they were very, very influential during COVID with their COVID collective, and they made these heartfelt ads using US presidents and using country music singers to get the American. American public to get vaccinated. I'll share a little snippet of vaccine means fm.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

It will protect you and those you love from this dangerous and deadly disease. I want to go back to work and I want to be able to move around to visit with Michelle's mom, the hugger, and see her on her birthday. You know what I'm really looking forward to is going to opening day in Texas Ranger Stadium with a full stadium. We've lost enough people and we've suffered enough damage. In order to get rid of this pandemic, it's important for our fellow citizens to get vaccinated.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

So this commercial also featured Jimmy Carter. Um and and these commercials worked. Um, they were very successful, and and that is a common tactic in advertising is to use influencers. So here's here's another influencer. This is Travis Scott. Uh McDonald's came out with their own meal in his name. What I heard is that um he was paid $20 million, $5 million by McDonald's, and then another $15 million in merchandise. I think, I think he even had some, there was some chicken McNugget pillow, but it's an astronomical amount of money. And look, everybody, you know, deserves to make a living. But what I want to see is I want to see influencers who are going out and promoting products or things that create good health and not just lining their pockets so they can do whatever. Because there's there's, I mean, look, some of the fast food chains are doing things, they're they're carrying some healthier food items, but it is our way of life. It's it's just a common thing to eat fast food. It's our normal. And that's another thing that I really want rethinking health to do is to shift how we look at normal. I don't really think, I mean, I think we've talked about this before in other conversations. What's normal and common doesn't mean it's quote unquote normal. And I don't, you know, I don't think it's really healthy for anybody to drive around in their car like eating, you know, sloppy fast food dripping on them in in a in a you know rush every single day. That that that cannot be good for the body. Um every once in a while, that's look, people get to do whatever they want with it. Absolutely. That should not be the standard. Food is food is, you know, supposed to provide nutrition, fuel the body.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Well, you know, and that goes back to the whole of reading food labels, because when I was growing up, I ate McDonald's and McDonald's fries back then, it was potatoes, salt, and they were fried in tallow. If you look at the ingredients of McDonald's French fries today, it's nothing like that. And so that's really where people don't, they they assume everything's still the same. And, you know, why would a company be putting in processed chemicals or anything into my food that may have the potential to harm me? Well, I've got news for you people. The companies that are producing these types of foods are not looking at your health. They are looking at bottom line profits. It is money that drives the ingredients that go into your foods. It's they find the cheapest products, the easiest way to create the product, package the product, market the product, and get it into you, the hands of the consumer. They could care less if it has aspartame in it or if it's got, you know, um red dyes. They don't care what's in it, the majority of the companies. They're looking at the bottom, you know, profit line. So there's my rant on that. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 48:14

You're 100% right. And when you talked about why aren't they using, you know, when you're talking about Vermonsanto, why aren't they using healthier options? It's because they have a supply of these chemicals and they have to get rid of them. It's what they have. And so we don't have time today to go into it, but there's so many things that are part of our normal, you know, standard of living that that are put in products because they're available and they're really not necessary. It's because we have a big stock supply of them. That's the answer. Yeah. So my my vision, Kathy, is to have these campaigns everywhere that people are, and that if you go to a ball game or a concert, instead of seeing ads for McDonald's and Bojangles and Heineken and Doritos, you will see ads that actually inspire people to be healthier and that empower them and that educate them. We we can do better. I want to see ads that are health-focused to be just as visible as the ads driving consumption. And that really was the inspiration, one of the inspirations behind starting rethinking health. Because if advertising can drive, you know, consumption of unhealthy products, why not use it to drive consumption of healthy products and to promote health?

SPEAKER_01 49:47

Yeah, I love that. Love it.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

Yeah. So I wanted to quickly share some of our campaigns that our team developed. And we we touched on this. An apple a day keeps the doctor away, except when it's covered in toxic pesticides. And it's a very simple ad, and it's it's designed to draw people in and make them a little bit curious, right? We're not telling people what to do, what not to do. It's here's a message, and you can learn more by going to the Rethinking Health website, where we will have a very large and comprehensive resource hub of articles and links where people can actually read and do their own research and learn as much as they want to.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

Yeah, love that.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

Yeah, and so here's the same ad on social. And I'm just showing this so that people get an idea. You talked about the repetition. And a lot of times, you know, business owners I know or companies or organizations, they'll put out an ad and they're like, okay, we're done. And you can't do that. You you have to have the repetition, and you really have to have it across all formats. So this is the same quote-unquote ad. It's really a PSA on social media, and it's it's reaching out to parents and saying, hey, you know, the apple you put in your kid's lunchbox could be covered in pesticide residues, and one of them is banned in the EU. And so you can help your family's health by buying organic over conventional and go to the website to learn more. And apples really are, they're such a big staple in children's diets. And the other thing I realize, Kathy, is that not every family can afford to eat organic. It's really, really expensive. And so we're gonna have tips on how you can eat healthy on the budget that you do have, how you can make the best choices possible. And then here is the same ad on a billboard. And again, there's always a call to action. Learn about reducing harmful exposures at rethinking health. So very simple. We we want we want to reach people in a way that is breaking through all of the clutter. Because when I talked about the 10,000 messages a day, we are we are bombarded with you know podcasts and social media and newsletters and substacks. And and so this is a very, very simple and easy way to reach people through through mass advertising. So this is our next campaign, our mental health campaign. And I feel like this is so important because there's so many people right now who are having mental health issues and they're really, really struggling. And so, what I want people to know is that there's more than a pill from your doctor. This says when it comes to depression, pharmaceuticals are not the only solution. And so the idea is not to tell people not to take SSRIs or benzodiazepines. The idea is to let people know your mental health is not just whether you take a pill or not. You need to look at so many other aspects. How much sunlight are you getting? What kind of stress are you under? Are you getting exercising?

SPEAKER_01 53:23

Like you know, exercising has been proven over and over and over again to reduce the amount of depression and anxiety. Yes. Right.

SPEAKER_02 53:30

And so um, there's so many other things like caffeine and alcohol, and are you in toxic relationships? And again, this stress. What kind of stress are you under? And these are not necessarily conversations that are happening in the doctor's office. Somebody goes in, they're depressed, they walk away with a prescription or some samples, and boom, that's it. There's not really a bigger discussion. And I'm not gonna get into it now, but you know, these drugs have a lot of side effects. And so they are not to be taken lightly. And what I want people to do is to talk to their doctor about these drugs. I'm not telling people not to take them, but what I want them to know is you do have options out there. And even if you are taking psychotropic drugs, you need to look at other factors in your life because yeah, it's it's just so, so important.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

Right. Well, which I also, you know, what a lot of times when I'm talking to people, I talk about how the healthcare system that most of us have grown up with and that we're used to, they are really designed for disease management. So if they get a typical depressed patient in the door, the their go-to is an antidepressant. And they're not really talking about some of the other things that they can do that might help with their depression, which could be exercise and diet and stress factors and all of those other things. They're just looking to push pills. And to me, you know, part of informed consent is risks, benefits, and alternatives. And one of the things I don't think that, you know, a lot of doctors do is say, oh, by the way, we're into disease management and you're going to be on this medication for the rest of your life. They don't say, you know, we there's other things we can do to help maybe reduce the amount of medication or things like that. And so that's just my blurb on a lot of, you know, prescription medications. Um, the doctors aren't critical thinkers. They don't want the patient to be a critical thinker. And when you have this type of messaging from rethinking.health, that just encourages that person who might be suffering from depression to go to rethinking.health, find some alternatives, and find things that they can discuss with their physician or decide to find a different physician that will talk with them and converse and help, you know, enhance their critical thinking skills.

SPEAKER_02 56:09

Absolutely. And part of this again, Kathy, is a cultural thing. Everybody is looking for a quick fix and a quick solution, and that's what's being sold. Here's a pill. It's going to instantly, people think it's like waving, you know, a magic fairy wand. Poof, you will feel better. And um I know I sold them. I used to sell those things. Right. And and so the sad thing is that because of the the the culture that we live in, a lot of people are not really willing to put the work into cultivating a healthy lifestyle. They just want the the the pill or the quick fix, and that that's you know, their mental health, their body. I mean, look at the astronomical numbers of people who are on GLP ones now. And I have a friend who I love dearly. He has non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, and he said he couldn't wait to to fail his uh sleep study. So they would put him on a GLP one. Insurance would pay for it. And I've talked to him about healthier eating, but he's so much more excited about the GLP one. And look, that's a whole nother conversation. But he does not want to, you know, embrace, like even try to clean up his diet. And look, medicine can be an amazing thing, but um, it is not the cure all, and it should not be, in my opinion, the first line of defense for every single issue.

SPEAKER_01 57:46

Yeah, so true. So true.

SPEAKER_02 57:48

So okay, here's here's our next campaign, and it's our youth mental health campaign. It's the the newest one, and I decided to develop this because we have such a big problem in our country with depression, youth depression, and and mental health and suicide. I have a number of friends in my community here who have lost children in the past year. Last week I was out and um ran into an old acquaintance who works at a local high school and told me about how a junior came in, finished up his finals for the year, and then he went home and he took his own life. And it's really so tragic. And it's a complicated issue, but there are so many things that we can be doing. And one of those is staying more connected to our children. And so we want to sort of serve as a bridge between some of the organizations that are out there and the public, and and to get, you know, not only be a resource for children, but also for parents who need to learn the signs when when something is off with their kids. And look, we're all really, really busy. And it's so easy, you know. You see somebody, hey Kathy, how's it going? And it's like, what do you say? I'm fine. But but but that's not always really what's going on. And so we need to, again, we need to to to to be, you know, curious and actually not just accept what's told to us at face value, but use, you know, our investigative skills and and just stay on top of things. So and depression can look, some people don't even realize they are depressed. It's like it can overtake you if you have clinical depression, it can affect your whole, you know, way of thinking. And so it's really up to not just parents, but people who are connected to other people to to stay in touch and to make sure they're doing okay.

SPEAKER_01 59:58

So yes, that's a very important one.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:02

Yeah, and so this is the final campaign that I have to share with you today. It's our autism campaign. And I came out with this. We rather came out with this, it was in November of 2024. And um, when we did it, the number was one in 36. And so the incidence of autism continues to increase. And so we changed the ad. But what inspired this is not so much the increase in autism, but also really the need to show that autism is simply not, you know, that quirky kid on the HBO series. Yes, neurodivergent population is part of the spectrum, but we also have people on the other end of the spectrum who have profound autism who require 24-7 care. And a lot of those families feel excluded from society, and and they're also pretty much excluded from the media. It's it's it's not um they're they're not really, we're not being shown what the true definition of autism is and what it really looks like. So that is part of our goal as well, is to educate people and to share more information about what it's like to be on the autism spectrum for both individuals and their families. And some of these children, as you know, they really have very complex medical diagnoses that require considerable medical care.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:39

Yes. Love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:42

So this is the the final slide. This is Times Square, the Marriott Marquis. This billboard, I believe, stretches three city blocks. And this is where we want to. I love it. Goals. Yeah, we want we want we want all of our campaigns to be visible, just like all of the other ads that are up there now. Because people, again, they need to be receiving these messages. Um, it's it's it's time to do away with all of the consumption-driven advertising and really shift our thoughts about health and what is good health and what's normal and and and start transforming our health. And once we do that, and once we start, I believe, once we start changing what's culturally normal and acceptable, our health is gonna follow. And also, once we start becoming more critical thinkers, we will make better decisions.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:44

I I firmly believe that. Yes, yes. That's the other goal. Become critical thinkers to make better decisions.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:51

Yes, and be the CEO of your own health. You talked about, don't you have a slogan of being Yes, be the scientist of your own health. Yes. Right. And so we want people to be the CEO of their own health. Don't hand that power over to a doctor to anybody else. You have that power. You are the biggest stakeholder in your health journey. And and people need to realize that that, yeah, sometimes bad things happen to people, right? They get a bad diagnosis, but you can have a profound effect on your health by the way you choose to live your life every single day and the choices you make.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:32

So I love that. Yeah, I love that. Do you have a next slide or that is it? Um, okay. Yeah, yeah. So I love that QR code. So for people that can use that, and then or they can go to rethinking.health, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:52

Yeah. And so what I want to say about all of this is I I've talked about the billions that these industries are are spending. And it is, it's an astronomical sum of money. It is billions upon billions every single year to drive consumption and to drive behaviors. And so, what we want to do, it is a very ambitious undertaking, and it is going to take considerable funds. And this is something that can benefit every single organization that's involved in health. And so it's really important. And I want people to be excited about this and to contribute to it because it's going to lead to a healthier future for all of us and our families and our communities nationwide.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:40

Absolutely, absolutely. Sherry, I mean, the information that you've been giving is so important to everyone. Because like what I started out was, you know, the business of influence. I mean, everywhere you said 10,000 messages a day trying to influence our behaviors. And without the critical thinking skills, we are going to find ourselves lined up in a row to jump over a cliff or whatever it is that some big organization wants us to do. And we've seen how um effective those ad campaigns are. And, you know, if we don't challenge them, if we don't, you know, use critical thinking skills, we are just going to find ourselves where we were back in 2020, 2021, 2022, before people started really questioning and figuring things out. And so rethinking. It's truly a solution. And um, I know that it takes money. It takes money. I know that. And um, I'm thinking when if they go to the QR code or rethinking.health, is there a donation page that people can find to help fund that?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:04

Yes, yeah, we have a donate page, and you know, um I'm encouraging everybody I know. I don't care if you give $5 or $5,000, but please give. And and the first campaign we want to launch nationwide is our youth mental health campaign. It's so important. People are really, really struggling right now. And you know, a big part of this too, the message about our culture is we need to stop and we need to slow down and we really need to take a look at what's in front of us. And I think it's because we just we're so busy and we're just charging throughout our days and we're taking in these messages. And and you talked about, you know, the the influence of advertising and the power of messaging. So much of it, Kathy, is subliminal and it's very, very sophisticated. And I don't really think I did it justice when I was talking about how effective these ads and ad campaigns and hearing from thought leaders and hearing from authority figures are at influencing what people think is the truth. And what I'm encouraging is not to be anti-industry or don't respect authority. Look, everybody gets to do what they want, but use some personal discernment and do your own research and and and and take some time to learn about things that are really gonna benefit your health and your family's health.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:32

That is perfect advice. I love it. I love it, Sherry. I love you. Thank you for that. I love you too, Kathy. You're there. Thank you for all that you do, and I'm sure I'll be seeing you again. And until then, if anybody has questions or they want to share this um podcast with other people, please do so. Like and share, do all those fun things to help the Meehan mission. And until the next time, everybody have a very blessed day. Thanks, Sherry. Thank you, Kathy.