Crisis-Proof Leadership: Scott J. Allen on Thriving in Uncertain Times

What does Guinness World Records, meteorite collecting, and leadership have in common? Dr. Scott J. Allen. In this enlightening episode, we dive into the kind of leadership that actually works—whether you're running a business, leading your family, or just trying to keep your head on straight in a crisis.

Dr. Allen, a leadership expert, speaker, and author, reveals why leadership isn’t just for CEOs—it’s for everyone, especially those who value preparedness. He shares eye-opening insights on how to lead under pressure, why emotional intelligence is your secret weapon, and how leaders literally create the weather (metaphorically speaking… unless you’re a meteorologist).

Get ready for a conversation that blends research-backed wisdom with real-world practicality—because being prepared isn’t just about stockpiling supplies; it’s about having the mindset to navigate any storm.

Tune in and learn how to lead with confidence—before chaos calls your number. 🎙🔥

Join us at Preparedness Pro in our Facebook Group or on our blog where you'll find peaceful, practical preparedness advice every day of the week!

Transcript

Leading Through Chaos: Scott J. Allen on Building Resilient Leaders in Uncertain Times
Kellene: [00:00:00] Welcome to Preparedness Pro, where being prepared isn't about fear, it's about freedom. I'm your host, Kellene, and every episode we explore the peaceful principles of preparedness and self reliance. No gloom, no doom, just practical solutions for everyday living that help you become more independent and prepared for whatever life brings your way.
From kitchen skills to financial wisdom, emergency planning to sustainable living. We're building a community of capable, confident people who understand that preparedness isn't about preparing for the worst. It's about being free to live your best life regardless of what comes your way. So whether you're starting your preparedness journey or you're a seasoned pro, you're in the right place.
Welcome.
Good morning, everyone. It's Kellene, the preparedness pro. And I have got another great show for you today. You know, we try to make them all great, you know, nothing mediocre. Today we have Scott J. Allen, Dr. Scott J. Allen, I should say. He is [00:01:00] a PhD. He earned that doctor very much. , you know what, we've got his bio in front of us, but I just want to tell you a few personal things about Scott.
His family has , gone to all 50 states. They love national parks. He has made 12 attempts at Guinness Book of World Records. And he likes to collect meteorites. And, let's see, what else can we say about you, Scott? 
Scott: Successful attempts. Successful attempts. Oh, wow, that's 
Kellene: even better. Yes, yes, they were 
Scott: successful.
The most number of Pull ups with my pinkies. No, I'm joking. , I had a class where 15 percent of their final grade was to successfully achieve a Guinness world record. So, every time I laid out that task, , the class. achieved their goal, which was fascinating. But there's some low hanging fruit when it comes to Guinness world records, like the most number of high fives in a minute.
Kellene: Oh, okay. Yeah, that's [00:02:00] true. 
Scott: That's true. It's not feats of strength or anything, all that impressive. But what was so funny about that was that they always chose something they thought would be kind of easy. And then there was something that just made it incredibly difficult. Like for instance, there's a world record, the most number of toothpaste tubes In a line.
Okay. So someone has achieved that Guinness World Record. Well, they thought that'll be easy. No problem. You know, where do you buy 4000 tubes of toothpaste?
Yes. Where do we get that money? Where can we line all of those up? You know, what's a physical space that will, so it was always hilarious because they'd pick something at the beginning of the semester they thought would be easy and there was always some problem. Random little thing that just blindsided them.
So yes, let's 
Kellene: share with my audience. Why have you on the show? Because you embody leadership. You're a speaker and academic [00:03:00] author and a podcaster so that you can write my podcasting skills here and you empower people in organizations to build stellar leaders. And I just found that to be so applicable to the preparedness community, because A, they are going to have to be leaders at some point because they will be the outlier who actually took time to think about things ahead of time.
, Scott has published more than 60 peer reviewed articles and book chapters. He's the author of the little book of leadership development, 50 ways to bring out the leader in every employee. He co founded the collegiate leadership competition and served as the board chair. He's also served on the board of international leadership association, association of leadership.
Educators and Management and Organizational Behavior Teaching Society. He was named as an ILA fellow by the International Leadership Association. , so I think leadership is your middle name. I want to know how your kids respond to this. [00:04:00] 
Scott: Well, okay. So first of all, on that question, they would, if they were here behind me and we said, You know, who's the better leader, mom or dad?
They would all in unison say mom. So she is my mentor. Oh yes. Oh, a hundred percent. Um, but your mention of family is a really, really cool thing because there's this fancy, theory called social learning theory. That just means we learn from our environment. That's all it means. Like our environment is very, very important.
We learn from it. If I'm growing up in, , watts or or if I'm growing up in some, , Ketchum Idaho, those are two totally different environments. And, our family, like our parents or the people who are raising us really from kind of like, let's just go two and a half where you're really starting to be present to maybe two 12.
Well, you're the children's center of gravity. So what you model matters greatly. So it could be preparedness, decision making. It could be curiosity. It could be [00:05:00] generosity. It could be problem solving. So all of those things that you as a family, navigating difficult conversations, all of those things matter greatly how you're modeling that.
And for some of us, you know, there was good, bad, and ugly of what was modeled for us in the home. I really do believe that leadership starts there. And again, So many different financial wellness, health, all of those things. It matters greatly. 
Kellene: Okay. So we've got this variety of talents with you. Speaker at the academic author, , founder of initiatives and leadership podcaster, if you had to pick one hat to wear for the rest of your career, what would it be?
Tell us why. 
Scott: Well, okay. So if I had to pick a hat, it would be learner. In high school. I was a C student. How I learned was not sitting in a room for eight hours in [00:06:00] a row being talked at. I did not learn well that way. So unfortunately for years, I kind of had this identity of, well, I'm not good in school.
I don't like learning. Well, I love learning. I absolutely, you, you have a podcast, you know, this, it's the most incredible way to learn each and every week. I'm getting my butt kicked, speaking with people from all over the world who know a hell of a lot more than I do about a topic and I'm learning. And I am constantly watching documentaries.
I'm constantly, so. Any anything that involves travel. I love travel because I'm learning. I sat in front of, we were in Oxford in the UK last summer with my family and I sat in front of this map of all the people that had invaded England over the years. The Vandals, the Normans, , I just go down the list of , the people.
It was probably like 12. It was just arrows coming from other parts of Europe, you know, Scandinavia. And I, I'm just like, gosh, I know so little about this. I want to learn more. And so I love to learn if I could do anything. [00:07:00] And so I kind of put myself in situations like the podcast or a lot of my consulting work.
I'm learning, I'm learning about automotives. I'm learning about construction. I'm learning about architecture, design, banking, healthcare. I don't know anything about those functions. But if they have people in those organizations, then, you know, you've got leadership and you've got all the kind of dynamics that happen with people.
So 
I learn and I love that. So I think that would be the hat I would wear and then somehow figure out a way to make money while learning. And it's worked out so far. 
Kellene: Okay, so I'm going to cut right to it. You've obviously got a leadership style. Okay. What is one strength that you're particularly proud of?
And one what, what's one area that you're actively working to improve in leadership? 
Scott: Okay, that's okay. Great question. So let's go improvement. Let's go improvement first. So Emotional intelligence is, [00:08:00] is always, , whether it's staying calm under pressure, whether it's not getting amped up and revved up.
So again, back to parenting, this has been a wonderful, my children are 15 and 17. This has been a wonderful opportunity for me to practice getting better at that. 
And 
it doesn't necessarily come easily to me. , maybe some of it wasn't modeled for me. And so it's this constant kind of place of. Okay. Am I getting a little bit better?
Am I? There's a great quote. Who you are is how you lead. So if you struggle with anger or you struggle with going from zero to 10 or you struggle with kind of getting sucked into your emotional state, well, that's who you are. And that shows up to the people that love you. That shows up to your coworkers that shows up to, the people that you're managing or leading.
So I always say that who you are is how you lead is a fascinating quote. Are you the best possible version of you so [00:09:00] that you can be, talk about preparedness. You know, are you the best possible? Are you prepared to be the best version of yourself? If you're a parent, if you're a coach, if you're a teacher, if you're leading, if you're managing, so I do a lot of work in automotives and in construction.
And, we wonder sometimes why we're struggling to retain employees. Well, sometimes we put people in charge that. Aren't really emotionally intelligent, do struggle to motivate the team, are kind of barking orders. Well, today's generation, they're going to go put the headphones in and drive an Amazon truck.
They're not going to put up with that. They will go elsewhere. They will hustle and figure out some other way on Fiverr than to put up with Jim, you know, the person who's not effective at leading. So for me, that's one thing that I know I'm constantly working on. And , that could be a whole episode in of itself, but I'm working on it.
I'm actively working on it. I have a mentor. I have my wife who knows that I'm working on that. I have a [00:10:00] therapist that I've seen since there's 17 years, not because my world's falling apart, but he helps me be a better version of myself. And so that's, I'm talking with him tomorrow. I'll go on a walk, have a conversation and he's helping me thrive.
So I'm actively trying to be better at it. I've read about the topic. Always trying to be better what I'm proud of. There's a level of humility and how I see everything. Yeah, I've studied leadership. I've done leadership. I have written about leadership. Again, I have to stay humble and curious because all shapes and sizes rise to the top.
There's no key formula in some context in the world right now. If you have the most guns, you're the leader. If you're the most brutal, you're the leader. Go to Genghis Khan. So world history is filled with these individuals, some of whom have risen in ethical, some of whom have risen in unethical, some of whom were very, very noble and use their power for good.
Some of them use their [00:11:00] power for ill and so. Some were introverts, some were extroverts, some were super brilliant, some not so brilliant, all kinds, right? So I always have to stay curious and humble in the presence of this topic. Because by no means I have a great friend named Tony and he says, you know, when he's with groups, I don't know better.
I know different. So listeners right now, they all have their perceptions of what great leadership is. And I'm just kind of curious about that. I try not to be rigid in any one stance. And I try to stay open because I don't think anyone has this thing figured out. Because it's humans and humans are super complex and, , yeah, you just have to look to world history to see all shapes and sizes and flavors of who's risen to the top.
Right. 
Kellene: Yeah. Well, my next question, you know, , my viewers who can see this on video, I'm surrounded by books, , all around me and they say that [00:12:00] leaders are readers. I don't know if I'd have an easy go of answering this question, but I'm still going to ask you, what's, what's one book that profoundly influenced your leadership philosophy?
What's, what's one maybe that you wish you skipped? 
Scott: Oh, one. Okay. So one that the first one is called the leadership challenge and that's by Jim Kuzes and Barry Posner. , it's in its seventh edition. They've been writing about leadership for 40 years, 40 plus years. And it's just an incredible introduction.
They have another book called, everyday people, extraordinary leadership, which I would highly recommend. It's a great primer intro, a little bit shorter than the larger book, the leadership challenge. But both are a great, great, great starting point from a topic of like good sound research over 40 years.
And just a really nice understanding of what great leaders do. So they have five practices of exemplary leadership based on research. They [00:13:00] did when they said to people, Hey, tell us about the best leader you ever worked with. What were the attributes of them? And they've asked that question of thousands and thousands and thousands of people, and they've been gathering data for decades.
So that's a great start. You know, some of the ones I might set aside, I'll pick on academia for a second. I love academia. I love, I love theory. I really do. But there's times where things are so theoretical that they aren't applicable and actionable. And so, That, one reason I love the leadership challenge is that kind of hovers in this nice space of we've done good, solid research, but it's super accessible and people understand it.
It's not in another language, so to speak. So sometimes the books that I favor a little less are You know, one person's kind of pontificating, right? Just here's my thoughts on leadership. And that's fine. That's, , it's a perspective for sure. But I love this middle ground where [00:14:00] it's, it's kind of, there's good research behind it, but it's communicated in this super accessible way.
And that's what Kuz is imposing to do well. 
Kellene: You know, I mentioned at the top of the, the interview, about people. involved in preparedness, that if there is a true crises, they are going to be looked at as the leaders. And because they've thought through scenarios, they've prepared mentally for these scenarios.
 What do you think? What, what could you say to people who, who are involved in preparedness? You know, they're living their life in a very sound, practical way. They're focusing on self reliance. Ultimately, what could you say to them to help them to wake up and embrace, , that leadership notion?
Scott: Okay. So. Love this line of questioning. Love it. , great organizations every day are prepared. Great organizations are prepared for emergencies. There's contingency [00:15:00] plans. There are, they've done that forethought. They've done that work. They have the systems in place for addressing the emergency. They have systems, they have crisis communications plans.
They have great organizations have done all of that work. And when an organization hasn't done that work, well. You know, , it's noticed quickly, or if an organization, for instance, we had that kind of chip challenge a few years ago, I did some work in the automotive industry and they were struggling , with supply because of the chip shortage.
Well, we learned as a country. That if we outsource everything, whether that's our medicine and facilities in the Caribbean or elsewhere, then we aren't prepared. We're overly reliant on some of those other institutions or countries, et cetera. So preparedness, I think it's, it's baked into business, obviously, and it's baked into anyone who is in an, in a business where there could be some type of crisis.
So for me, Preparedness [00:16:00] is. Whether it's your family, being prepared for your family, critical, super important, whether that's financial health, whether that's physical safety, it's baked into who we are as human beings. Do you have a security system? Do you have some protocol for how to get your family out if there's a fire?
My kids still today because we would randomly spot check them. They have little ladders in their rooms where if there was a fire, they know exactly what to do. And we prepared them. So I love what you're doing because I think it's a aspect of life that's critical that not enough people are thinking about.
So even 
Kellene: well paid leaders don't always think of. Crisis intervention. And, we read scenarios during 9 11 of how even the leaders didn't know where the exits were, , for people to escape, , the world towers. , yeah, that leadership is going to be invaluable. 
Scott: It's invaluable. And so I think one [00:17:00] version of that preparedness, sometimes we might think of the stuff we should have.
I have a book in my house just about plants and herbs because I have no clue what I can eat or not, but I have a book, if needed the book exists, you know, I think for me, when it comes to leadership, that's another version of preparedness. So going and buying that book, everyday leaders, extraordinary leadership, and reading that and having a better sense of what you would need to do to lead others.
It's just another version of preparedness. It's not stuff or equipment, but it's a mindset. It's a way of thinking. And if you want to inspire others toward a common vision, or if you want to ensure that you're modeling the way, which would be another piece of what Kuz's and Posner say, , it's another version of it.
So I love the fact that you're having this conversation on this podcast, because. If you don't do that work well, if you don't lead effectively, given the situation [00:18:00] based on human history, you'll be ejected, you'll be sidelined, you'll be minimized. And so how do you do when it comes to the activity of leading others?
Is that another skill you have? Just like bow hunting might be a skill, leading others is a skill. 
And 
so how prepared are you from that perspective to lead effectively to Ensure that other people have voice when that's appropriate or ensure to be a little bit more, directive when it's appropriate to be democratic sometimes to be coaching.
Sometimes there's different leadership styles and these aligned beautifully with the parenting styles literature, but there's different leadership styles and each one of them is appropriate for a different situation. So you can, , Go with a golf analogy here. There's a famous Harvard Business Review article where the author used a golf analogy.
Let's say there's seven basic leadership styles. Well, it's like playing a hole [00:19:00] of golf. You have a different tool for the situation. For where you are on that hole, there's a different tool that's appropriate. A driver, when you're teeing off, is totally appropriate. Getting out of the sand. Not the right tool.
So something we see oftentimes in organizational life is leaders using the wrong club, metaphorically for the situation they're in. So, you know, another great, article is called leadership that gets results. And it's a Harvard business review article. You can just Google it and find it or go to Google scholar leadership that gets results.
And that kind of expands on the analogy that I'm making right now. So this is just a different type of preparedness. Are you skilled at the activity of leading others? 
Kellene: So what's a leadership principle, if you will, or a perception of leadership that you would like to debunk once and for all? 
Scott: There's so many myths.
One, That it can't be learned like I'm just a born leader. [00:20:00] Charisma can be learned. You can learn to shift your personality if you tend to be more of a glass half empty person you can shift your personality, the research would suggest, or some research suggests for sure. So research on twins suggests that it's about, let's go 70 percent learned 30 percent genetic born.
So some things that might be born or genetic, well, if I prefer extraversion and I get energy from being with people all day long, like that's just energizing for me. Like that salesperson who just loves being around people all day long, they actually that, that lifts them up, that fuels them up. Well, that person might have a little bit an easier time when it comes to leading others.
If someone prefers introversion, literally they're being drained all day when they're around people all day, they're going to have to develop some hacks and some workarounds to kind of navigate that 17 hour day that you're working sometimes. So things [00:21:00] like stamina. And you know, can I work 16, 17 hour days?
Well, some people are built that way and need less sleep. Some people need a lot of sleep and they aren't built to work long hours like that. So there's attributes that are kind of innate and born. Now what I just said, it does not mean that introverts haven't worked at the, again, every flavor, every size, every shape, Angela Merkel, former head prime minister of Germany.
She was probably an introvert. I would go George Bush senior, probably an introvert. I would go, you know, we can pick on either side, right? President Obama, probably an introvert more than an extrovert. So it doesn't mean people can't work at the highest levels. They totally can, but there might be some dispositions that make you a little more, , kind of predisposed for whatever's appropriate in that context.
So in native American culture, you're a man. I [00:22:00] mean, , that's just kind of the case. So there's things that predispose at times for someone to be not all native American cultures or all native cultures. I want to say that for sure, but in some contexts, it was a man who was the leader, just, that was the rule, quote unquote, I'm not saying that's good, bad, right, wrong.
I'm just saying that's what it was. Leadership can be learned. I can get better at problem solving. I can get better at building relationships with people. I can get better at using those leadership styles. I just mentioned having difficult conversations. These are just new skills and I can get better at them.
I might not be when it comes to charisma, Will Ferrell, I might not be like that good at improv. But I can definitely improve my skills. And so that's one of the biggest myths that, you know, it can't be learned or you're just born with it. 
Kellene: Well, that's interesting. So you've worked with a diverse range of [00:23:00] organizations, everything from NASA to Cleveland clinic. 
Scott: , it's what I love about my job is it might be, a nonprofit. It might be large automotive, banking, insurance, healthcare, architecture, construction, automotive. I mean, it's wherever humans are, then these dynamics show up, right?
People are avoiding difficult conversations, struggling to hold others accountable. Oftentimes these folks who, let's say, let's go to Construction right now for a second. You have a master carpenter or a phlebotomist at a healthcare organization who is a great carpenter, a great phlebotomist. They're elevated to a position of authority leadership, and now they have a totally new job, a 100 percent new job.
Their new job is having difficult conversations, building a team, inspiring others, holding people accountable, leading meetings, negotiation, business development [00:24:00] sometimes. I mean, it's a totally new job. So no wonder people have imposter syndrome and no wonder people are struggling to do that work well because they haven't oftentimes been trained.
So that's another reason I think this kind of like you have it or you don't thing kind of perpetuates. Yes, you should have imposter syndrome because your job has fundamentally changed now. You're no longer working with Maple and Pine. You're working with Jim and Steve. And that's not easy. That's super hard.
, it's a different type of work that, , we have to learn. And as you said, leaders are readers, leaders are learners. You have a whole new body of literature. I did a post on LinkedIn. I write daily. about leadership on LinkedIn. So listeners can, can follow if they're interested. But I did a post the other day and it said something to the effect of welcome to your new job as a leader.
And then it listed 30 things they now need to know that they weren't trained for. And so I think oftentimes organizations are setting themselves up to fail, wondering [00:25:00] why they're struggling to retain people, engage people. They're putting people in positions of authority back to the preparedness conversation.
, you might be prepared in like three or four ways, concrete ways that are super important. That kind of social dimension of how you engage with other human beings is critical. It's critical. 
Kellene: So would you say that you have observed in all of your time a universal leadership truth that maybe people could start with in terms of a nugget?
Scott: Yeah. So this is such a great question. It's such a great question. There's a, a famous, I like doing 
Kellene: those by the way. I, I like brain. Yeah. No, it's awesome 
Scott: because, you know, again, like I, I started off by saying, look, this is super complex in all flavors and sizes. I think one starting point, I was with an oral surgeon a few weeks ago.
This person had just entered into [00:26:00] his new role. He was leading a practice. Again, same thing. Great at taking out wisdom teeth. And doing oral surgery. Now you're leading a practice. Totally new job. 100 percent new job for which you're given zero training in, dental school and surgery school, whatever. I don't know what they, I don't know what school they go to.
They become, 
yeah, 
but that didn't cover leading a practice. I imagine. and accounting and motivating a team. But, there's a scholar who wrote a paper a few months back and he did a LinkedIn post and he said, look, it could just all come down to relationships. And so for me, this new oral surgeon, I said, look for the first 90 days, focus on building relationships with your team, get to know who they are, what they value.
Their goals, what they like about the practice, what they don't like, just build a relationship. Let them know about you a little bit. They're not at your house for a barbecue every Wednesday night. That's not what [00:27:00] I'm saying. But after a month and a half or two months, they know you care. They know that you think of them as a human.
You want them to develop. You want them to grow. You know that they have a dog, that they love cats. You know that they have three or four children that play soccer. Awesome. Build that relationship and then learn, just kind of learn about the current culture, learn about how things are done and just get the lay of the land.
So I think a superpower of some of the great leaders is that they're really, really good at building relationships. They're good at connecting with people on a human level. When my head hits the pillow. I believe in my heart that you care about me. You have my best interest at heart. You want me to be successful leaders who are just driving towards results.
And you've worked for this person that, you know, they're just driving towards results. That's really kind of all they care about. You don't really feel like they care much about you. The research suggests. They get much less out of people. People are much more readily willing to [00:28:00] kind of exit that organization, then kind of , stick around.
Right. So that relationship piece is like a good, solid starting point. I'll say the other, the other good, solid starting point. It's a hard to pour from an empty cup. Are you the best possible version of yourself before you take on the responsibility Of leading others. And so I'll give you one more quote that I love leaders create the weather.
So just kind of imagine that for a moment, leaders create the weather. My friend, Jonathan Reams says that. So you've worked for that leader where every day was a little bit 50 and rainy. Just their world was just 50 and rainy. So your day be how you doing Jim crappy. Okay, good day You know, that's just the game they brought to the table.
And then we wonder why Jim's department isn't happy or motivated He's creating weather patterns and what is weather over time? It's [00:29:00] climate who wants to live in a desert who wants to live in a tundra who wants to live where it is constantly tornadic And just hurricane like, we seek out as humans, better climates that we want San Diego.
We don't want the Sahara. So I think another like master foundational thing is, are you gosh, the best possible if others are in your care, kids, employees, teams, are you the best possible version of yourself? And have you done the research? You know, the books behind you, have you read about how to have difficult conversations and are you actively working to build that skill?
Because if you're taking on a leadership role, that's baked in difficult conversations all day long. So are you good at that? Are you skilled at that? So who you are is how you lead and leaders create the weather. Those are two important quotes. And then are you super skilled at building relationships? 
Kellene: Oh, those are some great nuggets.
[00:30:00] Okay, let's switch gears here a little bit on. Yeah, you know, we are talking about preparedness and there's certain mindsets of preparedness. So in a hypothetical society down scenario. Okay, let's say the market has crashed and the U. S. Dollars worth worthless. WiFi. Maybe, what qualities would you prioritize in emerging leaders?
Scott: , so a, there's some level of expertise, so there's a great other article, Harvard Business Review article that is called a leader's framework for decision making. Okay, it's a great article written in 2007, and there's four types of problems that they really prioritize in this article. Simple problems, you have answers.
Complicated problems. Answers exist, but we're going to have to call an expert. You're going to have to call us cardiac surgeon. You're going to have to call HR to really get the law because we don't know it. But an answer does exist. [00:31:00] You have complex adaptive challenges. These are challenges where there's just an infinite number of variables.
And then you have kind of chaotic problems where world without wifi, you're in chaos or nine 11, you're in chaos or, any number of other kind of just disruptive States. You're in chaos. And that requires a specific type of leadership. So I would encourage listeners to read that article. It's an important article.
And I think crisis leadership, there's scholars and there's people who've written on crisis leadership as well, where in this specific context. A certain type of leadership is probably going to be required. So maybe I have expertise in certain base level kind of how are we going to get water? How are we going to get food?
How are we going to have shelter? You know, there's some base level expertise that will be highly [00:32:00] valued in that context, right? 
Kellene: Right. 
Scott: , and what we're trying to do is get to a place of like equilibrium. And just kind of figuring out what's going on and getting back to a place of, like, relative safety and security.
So that context requires a totally different type of leadership than just a person who's dealing with simple and complicated problems all day long. So Also baked into those scenarios are what are called complex adaptive challenges, where there's no rule book for how we respond. We're kind of building the ship as we leave the harbor.
We are writing the rules. And, so the, the challenge that it might, that might happen for someone in this scenario is you might have the most expertise around certain elements. But then we're going to have to have a diverse set of perspectives on how to deal with other situations. So can you switch gears back to that lead, , [00:33:00] that article, leadership that gets results.
Can you switch gears from being more directive to being more participative when you know that you don't necessarily have the answers in this instance that you need the wisdom of the group to kind of help us figure out, well, what's our best guess. Because some of these things won't have answers. You might have a perspective.
Other people are going to have perspectives as well. So it's about being intentional about switching gears and knowing what your strengths are. And when you have the answer. And when we need to go to the group to say, and even in the military, now they moved away from the, you know, follow orders at all costs where now in the army, you have permission to push back if you see something.
So are you creating a space as a leader where you're kind of balancing those tensions of when I need to be a little bit more directive and when I need to be more participative and that's going to be critical. Especially if you want to hold on to that position [00:34:00] of authority or be, you know, that's not even be most effective.
We all suffer from 180. They're called cognitive biases. These are These are things working our ability to make sense of situations They, they distort reality for us, just listeners look up cognitive biases on Wikipedia. It's fascinating as a topic. So we have to walk in with a level of humility because we don't have all the answers.
We can't have all the answers. And especially in these contexts where like it's a new path moving forward, we need to get the perspectives of others. So what was the name of the film that came out around Christmas a couple of years ago where the family is in a home, they're in an Airbnb in maybe Long Island and, you know, basically Wi Fi goes down and the world's in a little bit of chaos.
Kevin Bacon was in the film. 
Kellene: I don't 
Scott: know. 
Kellene: I don't know. 
Scott: Okay. Well, listeners can look it up. I think Kevin Bacon was in it. I believe Julia [00:35:00] Roberts was in it, but it's a, it's a future where kind of what you just said, wifi goes down, connectivity goes down. And the theory of the book and the film is that one of the easiest ways to wage battle on another country is just to take away its ability to communicate with itself.
And then 
it's going to be a free for all. And so this, this film explores that. And, again, there's no correct answer in those situations. People are improvising. And so what leadership style is appropriate for the situation? Just like that golf hole, a driver is not the appropriate tool for the whole hole for one part of the whole it is.
But if that's what the tool you're bringing to the game, the whole hole, you're only going to be so successful. That makes sense. 
Kellene: Absolutely. I don't think that we can wrap this up without asking you about one of your favorite leadership Ascension stories, you know, where someone didn't [00:36:00] necessarily start out with all the tools, but they got there.
And it could be based on a historical figure or based on your consulting. 
Scott: Yeah. Yeah. So I'll talk about, , a woman that went from floor nurse to CEO of a healthcare organization, started off as an RN and ascended to the highest levels of the organization and incredible, incredible soul, incredible at building relationships.
, there's a similar story at progressive where Tricia Griffith, their current CEO, she started, I believe in a call center. And, she said, mom, I'm working at progressive. And her mom said, why would you want to work at a soup company? And she said, no, not progress. So progressive, she too, you know, baseline level all the way to the top of the organization.
And so, and she came up through human resources, which oftentimes isn't [00:37:00] CEO. So. It's very, very doable. It's very doable. But I think back to the clubs, are you really skilled at using a number of these clubs? Are you educated and are you constantly learning to your point? I love what you said, leaders are readers.
And are you constantly trying to become a better version of self so that you are that Swiss army knife? You are applicable in a number of situations, not just one. So again, preparedness, our natural first thought is going to go to the person who has the most tactical expertise. Great. But are you a Swiss Army knife in that you have tactical expertise, you have leadership expertise, you have crisis management expertise, you have a number of expertises, then you're truly valuable in a number of situations.
You can play the whole hole. 
Kellene: Yeah. So I hope that we have enlightened our listeners. To pursuing [00:38:00] education on leadership, just as they would pursue, you know, the top edible weeds, or making food from shelf stable ingredients. I'm, I'm hoping that, yeah, I'm hoping they realize that that is an important tool in the world of preparedness.
Okay. I've got one for you. 
Scott: Yeah, 
Kellene: you collect meteorites, right? Yes. Okay. So is there something that you can apply to leadership that you've learned about meteorites? 
Scott: Oh, wow. That's such a cool question. Leadership and meteorites.
Okay, so, gosh, that's a really good one. Meteorites and leadership.
I think one thing that I love, I love anything having to do with space. Anything having to do with space. I will watch space documentaries until, 
for hours and hours and hours. And I think one thing I love about scientists, and in that context specifically, is that, you know, we think we know, but [00:39:00] we don't. 
They just brought out some of the moon rocks that were, that were brought back from some of those missions and, reexamined them 50 years later with new technology and new tools and learned a whole bunch of new stuff about the moon. And so I think staying in that place of curiosity and staying in that place of wonder.
Scott: And even when we studied the rocks 50 years ago, we study them 50 years later and we learn new things. So there's always more, there's always more behind kind of the curtain for us to learn. And I think that's true with leadership. I think that's true with the ingredients in some of these meteorites that, that I have, you know, some theories and you can get into fun philosophical and religious conversations here, but, um, some theories suggest that it was These asteroids and meteorites that brought water ice to the earth.
It was just a big molten rock [00:40:00] for billions of years. And what brought water here? So you get into all these really cool conversations and we're constantly being kind of, our eyes are open to other possibilities and realities. So I think we think we know, but we don't, we, we, we never have really. 
Kellene: You've done a great job with that curveball.
Thank you. Thanks for taking it. Point for you So where can where can people find out more about you, and even you know invest in your Leadership consulting and your training where can people where do I direct folks? 
Scott: Go, go to LinkedIn, Scott J. Allen. I write about leadership every day. And if you want to be a better leader, you can check in at 8 30 AM.
Every morning I post, and it'll be some topic about what you can do to think about being a better leader. So I think sometimes, and you know, this, I don't know the preparedness community. So, I don't know that, and it feels overwhelming for me to think [00:41:00] to learn that, okay, so that's just truth right now. You are the expert there, I am not, , and so, it can feel that same way with leadership, I know that.
So start with a book and I've mentioned a couple today start with a bite sized piece of learning. I have a newsletter where every week I share four articles about leadership. So you're just 
Kellene: correct. 
Scott: That's the website. And then you can click on newsletter and sign up and it's just these little bite size.
I'm learning about technology right now, AI, blockchain sensor technology, and all these different technologies and even disruption. I have a couple newsletters where every day, I get future loop and it helps me learn about that space. So don't feel overwhelmed. Just jump in and learn in very small bite sized pieces.
And it over time, after two years, you're going to start to see the patterns. You're going to start to kind of recognize you're going to start to, [00:42:00] and, and it's going to slowly kind of seep in. 
Kellene: Wonderful. Well, Scott, you've been a great sport today. Thank you so much. Both the personal and the academic approach to this conversation.
I appreciate it greatly. I wish you all the best in what you're doing because you're doing great things, , as a leader in your field. And thank you so much for being with us today. 
Scott: Awesome. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. 
Kellene: Thanks for joining us today on Preparedness Pro. I hope you enjoyed yourself and learned something new. Want more Preparedness inspiration? Join our live shows every Tuesday and Thursday at 11 a. m. Eastern on YouTube or Facebook at Preparedness Pro, where we can answer your questions live. Looking for a community of like minded people who understand that preparedness is about freedom?
Come join our Facebook group and just search for Preparedness Pro under groups. Have questions or want to connect? You can message me directly [00:43:00] on Facebook or Instagram via our Preparedness Pro page. If you found value in today's episode, be sure to like, share, and subscribe to our podcast. It helps us reach more people who want to embrace a peaceful, prepared lifestyle.
Until next time, remember preparation brings peace and peace brings freedom. See you soon.