Series 4 Episode 8: From the Field: Farming, Facilitation & Forward Thinking

In this episode, we step behind the scenes of the Monitor Farm Programme to hear directly from the people driving progress on the ground — our Regional Advisers. From facilitating discussions and navigating group dynamics to helping farm businesses explore new ideas, Regional Advisers play a crucial role in shaping positive change across Scotland’s farms. 

We explore the realities of advising in different regions, the challenges and opportunities farmers are facing, and how benchmarking, peer learning and honest conversations help build confidence and resilience. Our guest shares practical lessons, memorable moments, and reflections on what makes the Monitor Farm approach so effective. 

A grounded, insightful look at how advisers support learning, leadership and forward motion on farms across Scotland. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Field Talk, a Monitor Farm Scotland podcast. Join our host, Wallace Curry, as he explores the stories from Monitor Farm Networks on how farmers have adapted their businesses with support from specialists and experts to assess farm performance and explore opportunities. Monitor Farm Scotland is farmer-led, farmer-driven, encouraging discussion and solution-based thinking.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Welcome back everyone to what is the final episode of the series here for Field Talk, the Monitor Farm Programme podcast. It's been a great series, actually. It's been a great few series over the past year and a bit. This series is really focused on where you have the monitor farmers. You have nine across the nine regions of Scotland. You also have coupled alongside that a management group with it, which is essentially a committee that supports that monitor farmer. They can take things back to their farm. We can bring ideas over to that farm as well, and just a big collaborative, peer learning, I guess, based approach, which is quite fun. So if you want to hear about how they work, the first nine episodes in this series is where to go. And if you want to hear about the farmers themselves, the first series is where to go. So there's quite a lot of content. There's something like 35, 40 episodes now, so go and have a listen to all them. Today, we've got an important, I would say, a very important episode to end the series. The people that make it all happen. The Monitor Farm Programme doesn't just have farmers and they do the thing they're doing. There's also regional advisors that are in charge of sort of making it all run as smoothly as they do, which is who we're going to cover today. The sort of topic, I guess, today is farming facilitation and forward thinking. And we have three, well, the three regional advisors, Christine Cuthbert, Iona Smith, and Peter Beattie on the call today. How are we all? This is all just going to be an amalgamation of voices, but how are you all doing? Happy New Year to you all.

unknown 1:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

I love doing that part at the start of a group column, Zoom. It's always a bit of a challenge. And for those listening, you're probably wondering how are we going to hear anything throughout this? The plan is to sort of structure it somewhat. I won't just throw out open-ended questions to the room anymore, but um I always quite like starting it that way. The the theme here is to go through uh the the three guys in today, cover three separate regions across Scotland. Obviously, we'll sort of cover the focus of what their role is. Um we'll cover the Monitor Farm programme itself, we'll cover these guys as well. But it's always good to start with who we are speaking to. So we'll jump straight on into that from who's first on my screen, Christine. I'm sure everyone knows who you are, but could we have a little background on who Christine Cuthbertson is?

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Hi, Wallace. Well, maybe no one in Ayrshire, maybe not, maybe I'm getting to travel a bit wider now through this project. But I'm Christine Cuthbertson, um uh a farmer's daughter, and uh been in the agricultural sector working for 30 years now, uh 25 years with NFU Scotland, and then I was very privileged um to be taken on to look after the south cluster of monitor farms, sorry, not the south, the west cluster of monitor farms. I was taking eye on as Joe there, um in 2022. So I look after the Argelshire Monitor Farm over in Isla, the Silan Share Monitor Farm in Trimmin, and the South Ayrshire Monitor Farm are one that's closest to home.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Perfect. And uh Peter?

SPEAKER_04 3:17

Yeah, I'm Peter Beattie. Uh I um live in Dundee, uh, not from a farming background. I first stepped on a farm probably in 1975. And I've worked more or less consistently in farming in a number of roles since then. Um I've been involved in the Monot Farm program before back in 2008, when I was uh program manager with QMS, a very different structure. I manage facilitators. So this is a different one. This is to come back and be the regional advisor, effectively the facilitator myself uh for three farms uh the Urbans at uh Fraserborough, that's uh the Bamford Bucken Monitor Farm, the Smiths at Straths Bay at Granton, that's at Straths Bay Monitor Farm, and the Deeside Monitor Farm, uh Claire and Duncan Morrison.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Excellent, thank you very much, Peter. And last by no means least, Iona.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

Hi there, thank you for having me on. Excited to be here. Uh yeah, my name is Iona Smith. I am 26 years old and born and bred um on the west coast of Scotland from yeah, a very strong agricultural background, pedigree, beef and sheep. Um absolutely love that. Still involved in relief milking as well. Um I've been on the team since September, so I'm pretty new to it, still learning the ropes. Before that, I was in the surveying world when I left university. Um, yeah, so very much finding my feet still, but absolutely loving it. Um I'm also past chair of Women in Agriculture Scotland and involved in various other things with them, like youth committees for the Hereford Cattle Society. Um, yeah, so I manage the South and I look after Barn Bacho, At Dumfries, uh, Roxborough, Cow Bog, and East Lothian Castleton.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

And uh just back from quite an exciting journey to America, are we not, Iona?

SPEAKER_03 5:13

Yes, yeah, yeah. I represented and led the UK team to the World Here Conference in Kansas in October. So that was an absolute honour and a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

It looked fantastic. Fair play, brilliant. Um, well, uh this so just so you know, this is what this is gonna be. We've got a few things to sort of cover with with the three regional advisors you just met there. Um, I'll I'm not gonna ask everyone the same question, obviously, because similar questions are gonna be quite similar. There'll be some that are sort of focused at certain people, but in general, we'll just sort of go around the team and ask questions as we go. So, Peter, because for some reason you just moved on my Zoom call, I'm gonna ask you this one. Uh, what what what is the role, just so everyone can understand, I guess, of the regional advisor? You've all sort of touched on it there, but what is the sort of day-to-day of that position?

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Yeah, that's an interesting question. What I've written down in my notes is there is no typical day. Um, we could be on the most boring side of things, just having a planning meeting, although that's always the useful place to start. But a lot of our work is just listening to what farmers want in terms of advice, uh meeting agendas, this the setup of bringing people together, and that can be large open meetings, which we're two of a year on each farm, or it could be management group meetings, which is really the driving force of these farms. So you're you're planning, you're organizing, uh, you're listening, you're persistent. You've got to be enthusiastic in this role. I think that's something that all all three of us, and Grace and Beth, uh, we have an enthusiasm uh for this role to see farmers doing well. And that you you convey that just in the conversation, which with what I think are uh nine of some of the most amazing farmers in Scotland. So that's where I D kind of starts just organizing planning.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

Yeah, for some I mean, speaking of organizing, a very rare I interview people of notes, I'm very impressed. Uh uh probably a good idea when I'm an interviewer, in fairness, Peter, because I do sometimes go off on mad tangents. Um I own it to focus on, you know, this whole series, this sorry, the series is a weird word, isn't it? Because this series of the podcast, this series four, has focused on that management group focus. Um so if you've sort of been listening to them, you'll understand that that's that sort of support group around each monitor farm. What's the what's the support, I guess, from from you guys' role uh to that management group in particular, as opposed to just the monitor farm itself?

SPEAKER_03 7:49

So we all have WhatsApp groups that it's all they're always going, there's always questions asked on that. Um that's where we use all our correspondence goes on there or and we send out emails as well. But we um we work closely with each group's got a chair as well. Um so we work closely with them, they really help us and know you know, they knew the farmer from the start. And the management group, as well as I should say, is is a whole host of different people. It could be your vet, your lawyer, your neighbour. So it's a really good collection of people, um, and that gives different outlooks, different perspectives. Um, and then I think, you know, obviously we're going into the final year of this project, you've really created you know strong relationships with these people. You know, they might be your neighbour, but you're meeting up, you know, five plus times a year. I I think the management group, you know, they help steer it essentially. They help your farmer and they give ideas um into it and what topics we want to cover.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

And I guess with uh it's probably best to pass to you on this one, uh Christine. You've spent, I think you said, uh uh 25 years there, and it's it's always been focused with um with groups of farmers. You know, it's not just been a case of working one-to-one often, it's been uh, you know, in a few airship, for example, and then now uh you're focused with the Monitor Farm program. How how do you work with that? You know, you're you're looking at trying to trying to encourage learning, whether that's peer-to-peer, whether that's looking at your own business, whatever that might be. But you're also working with completely different people. You know, you're working with folk from different backgrounds, you're working with different personalities, you're you're um you're always working with not just one family, for example. How do you encourage that discussion to be open in a management group?

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Um it's one of these old cliches, but I suppose you have to lead by example, if that makes sense. And I think honesty and trust, no matter what the personalities that you're dealing with, that cuts through everything. Uh, I'm always hugely honest with people and positive, um, but also trustworthy. And if if if you set off in that way when you work with farmers, deliver what you say you're going to do. Um, farmers absolutely hate when you say you'll do something and then you don't do it. But life comes into play and we can't deliver everything. But if you're honest about it and say, well, this didn't happen because X, Y, and Z. I mean, when we start off with the programme, there's a lot of asks and a lot of things that they want to do, but the realities come into play, be it budgets or time. You know, I would love to have taken farmers, you know, across the world to see other farmers, but the reality is we didn't have the budget and we don't the farmers didn't have the time. Um, so I think if you if you've got that kind of integrity and that absolute passion just to see the best in everybody, then the personalities sort of fall into line. And the the biggest thing I would say is that, you know, I I was in business myself. I I've worked in a partnership and worked on my own, and no man or woman is an island. Um, and seeking out that support from those within your community um is so helpful. Um ultimately whether you take their advice or not is different, it is up to you, but it's important that people have their voice heard um and able to chat through things. So you never shut somebody down just because they come from a left or centre um way of thinking. So yeah, and actually see from the very minute somebody steps on farm, that's where you set the tone of the meeting. Um the monitor farm, it's very friendly, very open. You'll get a cup of tea, you'll get a chat. Um I always say, you know, I'm the I'm warm and cuddly, and you know, that's important to break down um barriers with people and make them feel you know comfortable. Talk to everybody, make sure you they realise that you really appreciate them being there, and the farmers, the monitor farmers appreciate that as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And uh every man and woman not being an island is lucky, they don't have to deal with boat challenges this time of year, that's for sure. Um it's uh it's a very good point, though. I mean it's a it's a saying I've heard many a time before, and I I like it because it's it's it's possible for people to feel like the proverbial island as it were, but when you come into a group like this, then it's very much more of an all-together type thing, which is is good. With a with a focus on on the specific regions themselves, um I Iona, we'll start with you on this one. Uh what what are the I guess the both the benefits and the negatives, challenges, opportunities, whatever we want to say of the region that you're covering yourself?

SPEAKER_03 12:28

So in the south, uh I manage Castleton, which is the only sole arable farm that we've got. Uh doesn't have any livestock at all. Um so yeah, we know the arable sector's had a lot of difficulties the past year. Um, so it's difficult. Optimism there is a real hard one. I get that. It's hard to get out your bed in the morning and see, you know, how's it going to get better? Because things don't look great either. We had an open meeting on Monday and it's it's AHDB spoke, and it, you know, it's difficult that that side of it when they say things aren't going to get better anytime soon, but you just kind of have to keep working through that storm. Um, yeah, so I deal with that, which is yeah, really is good for my learning. Crops isn't up there with with what I absolutely love and know a lot about, so it's really good for my learning um with that side of it. But yeah, there's real challenges there. Uh again, rainfall, they've seen a hell of a rainfall um this past year or so, more than they've ever had. Um so climate change off the back of that as well. And you know, your labour, I would say, and across the board. There'll be similarities, of course, across Scotland that we all we all see in our regions um for sure. Um and yeah, I would say just I would definitely say that the the pros outweigh the cons. The the community, you know, they're really close, that they all have, they're all neighbours, they all go on really well, and they work really well together and they value their opinions um and their views, which is really great to see. As I said, you know, I've only been in the job a few months, but the relationships I've created already are you know are brilliant. I knew Robert Wilson before um through Hereford Cattle, I've pretty much known him all my life um through Sean, which was really, really nice. So it's nice working with somebody in a different aspect now. Um yeah, and then Richard, you know, Dumfries, they have a wonderful group, they're really close, you know, and his management group, there's his best friends, and you know, they all bounce off each other. It's a really nice dynamic. So you know, ultimately it's that community. Um, and yeah, no, it's they're all three really three strong farms. But um, yeah, I cover quite a quite a different area, you know, for me slowly all the way down to Dimfrees, which is great though, and it and it's good for me personally, as I said, being from Ayrshire, you know, it's a totally different bit of the country, so I'm getting to meet make new connections, meet new people, and just foster those those great relationships in agriculture.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's uh yours seems like the most come you know, all the way from sort of prime marble to prime dairy ground, as it were. I know that you know, yeah, um yeah, quite quite an interesting shift. It's good fun. Definitely. Um and uh yourself, Peter, and and your region.

SPEAKER_04 15:04

I think that diversity across the three farms and the three areas is a real feature to I think of all our farm farm areas. Christine will really highlight that with you know with her island monitor farm as well. But we have uh Straths Bay is close to a thousand feet. Uh Miko Maldron uh with D-Side, the home farm there, is approaching a thousand feet, and yet he's also got farmers in the Ruri near sea level, and uh Bruce is uh farm up at Fraserburgh, right against the coast. So that brings real challenges for each of the farmers, particularly in the year that's been over everything from um I would say everything from drought to drifts we've had across these three farms this year, real perseverance and challenges for for the farmers over that period. And I think you they respond with real resilience, which we're able to reflect in the meetings, we're able to reflect in our uh reports and podcasts and the like. So it I think the across the nine farms is there's something for most people uh that would listen into them. Real uh lessons to to take on board and ideas to to hear and share that just um reflect what I think is it's what makes the job probably less challenging, which is to share drive and enthusiasm from each of these monitor farmers, the families. It's not just the individual an individual farmer, but it's it's family that are involved in this. Um so dealing with the weather, uh, dealing with succession, dealing with some which I won't go into, but dealing with some real family, family crises and challenges uh that that people are very candid about, and yet at the same time um they're also getting on and supporting other farmers and you know, this huge support within the mentor group and the farm the families themselves. And I think we feed into that a bit. We can bring people together, we can bring support and help from outside of the normal group of people that would mix, you know, farmers and farmer farmer friendships in in a community. We can bring in other people to offer support just by the weight of being a monitor farm, being able to speak to real specialists and others and bring them in to be able to talk to groups of farmers. And you can see friendships forming, and I love that aspect of it, uh just to see these farms developing new contacts and new connections, and these farms become better known and people being able to go and learn about different farming and different systems in different areas. So it's it's it's a challenge to make sure it all keeps going. So I think we'd all find that, but at the same time, the rewards are huge. Good job.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

You wouldn't you wouldn't really need any form of program if there was no challenge, would you? That's the whole point of of this, to try and make things better and work forward. Yeah, absolutely. Um and Christine, only only one with a an island uh based monitor farm as well, a big ch a big change compared to everyone as well. But what what about yourself? What are the the things that jump out for for your region?

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Yeah, so obviously the biggest challenge that I have is the logistics of getting to Isla, but we won't go into the very discussion here as for a different chat, Wallace. Um but actually the amazing thing is in the West Coast, although they're in different locations, their similarities are amazing with the three farms that I have, um, which actually makes it easier to a certain extent. So they're all family farms. They're the three largest farms in terms of the area and the stock that they carry across the programme. They all have around about the same number of cows, so 150 to 200 head of uh circular cows. They all have large sheep enterprises of over a thousand plus head of sheep. They all have that young, enthusiastic generation who are coming into farm and they're all really busy people. They all have diversified businesses. So, as well as the the beef and sheep enterprises, uh John and David Andrew, they uh uh cut a lot of sheep. Uh they've got contracts and diversification, the Duncan's at Lambs and Edrum Head, they have um they have meat boxes and also um glamping, beautiful glamping pods um up there near Drummond. And in our Gelshire, they've got oyster farming and um also the a cafe there as well. So they're very busy people, but having that commonality, that was actually one of the big drivers, one of our key projects, which has been the virtual fencing project, because I can see quite clearly that to keep the young people wanting to keep circler cows, something has to change. We have to try and make the job easier because all these farms have got very good in-by ground, but they've got huge chunks of really hard to farm hill ground areas. Um and if we don't make it easier to farm that, the cows are just going to go off of there due to you know economics and time and and work-life balance. So that for me has been really inspirational to see how what's the big cut in themes here, uh, what's the big thing that would actually make a difference to the next generation that want to come in and farm? But um a good saying is um it's it's it's not what you hate, it's what you do with what you hear. And they they are just fabulous at at doing that. Um so there's a lot of common, there's more commonality than there is differences, if that makes sense. But yeah, the biggest challenge, without a shadow of a doubt, is island logistics. But my goodness, the folk make up for it. It's just uh an absolute dream to be working out there.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

I obviously could never comment on such a topic, but uh yeah, Christine, that's that's two sayings from two answers. So we're going to expect uh uh a little cliche in every single one now. Not at all, not at all. Um Peter, you mentioned about uh when you were sort of mentioned answering that there, about about the response, you know, when there's challenge, when there's whatever, and and the way in which uh both the management group and also the farmers and the farm farming families, you said themselves respond to those things, whatever that might be, um, be that challenge or positive. Do you between the three of you, and I this I said I wouldn't do this too much, but I'll I'll I'll do it here to see who wants to take the the answer. Between the three of you, do you see similar ways in which managed management groups deal with challenge? With you know positive things coming forward, and I know there's been a uh a session on succession, there's been various things that the monarcharm program's done. Do you see the way in which uh your regions react to whatever it is that comes up quite similar across the board, or does your regions react to to changes differently?

SPEAKER_04 22:17

I I have three quite different monitor farm management groups that they're the D-side guys a lot of them have known each other since uh young farmers' days, that's a part. They're a young group, um all of what what is young but all under 45. And they've known it and there's been this gap, I think, for for a number of them between leaving young farmers and then getting together again within the management group. But the core group members share a lot of information very candidly on WhatsApp, are inventive and creative when they come to the management group meetings. They come up with ideas that are good ideas for open meetings, good ideas for their much smaller group meeting, cluster groups or or management group meetings. They're very driven to expand the D side group. They share amongst them this desire to remain family farms, to expand their enterprises, to do well in a competitive world and to understand where they are in it in the market. They're very business driven. We go up to, I would say, as well up in Banff and Bucken, there are simil similarities, but there's a wider group, and we've I've been delighted that Bruce started this Monet Farm program at Bamf and Bucking, um at Sock and Tree as our an organic farm and moved into conventional farming in the second year. But we've retained a number of organic uh farmers within the management group. I think hoping to bring Bruce Brackett back into the organic fold, if truth be told, but they bring so much, they bring a different perspective into it. They're very, very supportive of Bruce, and Bruce is very candid and open with them, which is why it works. And with Straspay, um, I think that's a really, really interesting group as well, because it's Strathspay is fairly contained. Farmers are fairly contained within that area. There is this narrow band of farming, and we have a again a wide range of small and large farmers coming to that who are again really supportive of I think what a big ambition for Straths Bay is, is for the Smiths to do a degree of succession from Malcolm, who the who started off as the principal monitor farmer at the beginning, to Hamish and Carlum, who are increasingly taking over the major decisions uh within the farm. And I think the management group are very supportive of that and very encouraging of that. And also they have a very good story to tell. As Malcolm has moved uh from a farmer uh to being working for the King Gomes National Park as an agricultural advisor. So there's huge changes in each of these, and I think throughout what you see is the commonalities the management group has been supportive for each of the monitor farmers, and I think they also in turn the ideas they've come up with for the monitor farm open days have always been successful. They've got their fingers on the pulse for what people want to come to, whether it's talking about management, whether it's agri tech, whether it's looking at beef in the northeast and whatever, they've been very good at that, and I think that's a real encouragement too.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

That that's sort of the the vibe I've got over four four series of well, I I guess I'm I've been three and a half series of of filming this. Um it's just that sort of openness. And yeah, let's try it. Whereas sometimes we're maybe a wee bit sort of defensive of our own information, defensive of of things we don't want to get out there, whereas this openness sort of allows you to be much more proactive over reactive, maybe. Um and then when in the in the event you have to react, sort of doing that as a team and working through it, which is uh very positive, I think, in fairness. Um Iona, you said you've joined, you know, and within the last year as a sort of regional advisor role, I guess. What what do you guys do to help both the the monitor farmers themselves but also by extension that management group to look at new ideas, to look at sort of testing innovations to to I guess assist in making those decisions for those people that are looking at making those changes?

SPEAKER_03 26:57

Yeah, very much the the saying goes, it's farmer-led, farmer-driven, but obviously we're there to do a job. So I I speak to you know a farmers quite a few times a week. We'll bounce ideas off each other and what avenues we want to go down. And I think it it's farming's all about who you know as well. So I I can use who I know to help to come and speak, or I or places like farms we can go and visit next week. We're going to Michael Walker's and we're also teaming up with South Air South Ayrshire for that as well. So I do think that's that collaborative approach is really, really important. Um and it you know it brings people together. Um so I think in my opinion, it's just yeah, it's about who you know, using your contacts and you know, keeping that momentum going, especially it's a four-year programme, but making sure we're we're keeping relevant topics that people want to learn about. But you know, and it's me that's I do help steer that, even though they'll tell us what they want to learn about, but we've got to make sure that we can get the right outcomes out of it um and meeting the needs um yeah of what the group wants and needs to do. So yeah, I do think that's important um all round. But yeah, no, we've covered various different topics. You know, I do currently doing genetics um at Barnbackhood and Fries. We're gonna, as I say, going to Michael Walker's next week. We've got a cover crop trial at Castleton and uh and Robert, we're doing finances there. Um kind of end of looking projectory to the next five, ten years of what his business is gonna be like. I should have said as well that two of my two of the three farms that I manage, they've got really strong diversification businesses as well. So they juggle a lot. So you know it's a lot all at once, I would say, you know, to juggle businesses and this bit, you know, that they they approach it really well.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Yeah, which is uh and that approach is I think it seems to be the not the entry requirement of someone who is being a monitor farmer, but it's certainly got to be one of the the desirable traits. Um pretty open-minded, don't you?

SPEAKER_03 28:53

Yeah, open-minded. And looking like farmers, farming is so you know, it's ever changing, isn't it? You know, everything that's happening in the world. So I do think you have to have that open-mind perspective. And as Christine had said about the virtual fencing, I was there last week at the conference. Um as I said, you know, I wasn't there from the start of it, but it was great. We had a dinner and we all spoke down in our in different groups of you know, the different farmers who've all been involved in it, and it's amazing to see you know just the confidence that people have gained, obviously, with that project, and and how it's changed the landscape and their farming business for the better. So that you know it's really positive. It's shows how you can use technology, you know, to a real advantage.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. And uh Christine, Iona sort of touched on there, you know, that that uh bringing in who you know and and utilising that network. Can you tell us a wee bit about that? You know, you're you're bringing in specialists, you're also bringing sort of not only just individual people who are involved in in a in a specialist in a certain topic, but also that sort of industry partners, I guess, as well as sort of strengthening straight that's a really hard word to say, strengthening, that shouldn't be a hard word to say, um, around that farmer with that management group. And then by extension, also that management group, I assume, plays somewhat of a role, maybe not intentionally, but in that local community as well. So just talk to us a wee bit about the the people involved out with the the named roles, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

But I I think that's an important thing. You see, to me, this project is uh the monitor farm, it's actually about people, it's a people project. Um, and and one of the things is it, you know, you can follow the technology and all the different things that you can do, but if if it's not conveyed in a way for farmers to be able to understand and how to use it, then you'd be as well not bothering. So a lot of it is getting the people who can actually communicate with farmers um the right way. Um I don't know whether it's we're just genetically different as farm folk, but we're very much visual learners. Um, you know, we we don't have the time or the patience to sit and read a report. We want to learn, we want to see, we want to know. You were involved with Rhett Wallace with me. You'll know the same with the kids. If you actually get your hands on and do things and see it, um then you will succeed. So, an example would be in our Gelshire. Uh Craig out there would really want to make most of his grass. There's a lot of challenges out there in terms of climate and goose challenges as well, and was looking at rotational grazing along with his great stocksman uh Thomas out there. But to actually do that, it was getting the right person, and the right person was Michael Blanche. Um now Michael Blanche and Craig are two different people, and that you know, not in different yeah, they have two different islands for want of a better word. But what was identified was how Michael could communicate with Craig um to help him with rotational grazing, and it was all done through social media through WhatsApp. So sharing videos, um actually actually showing this is what it looks like, that's you know, this is how you get to do it. There was absolutely nothing written down on that, no reports, nothing. It was all done through um good communication, and that's making sure you get the right people and identifying the right people. And when you do that, and the monitor farmer gets it and understands that quickly shares to the to the to the wider group. Um, you know, it can it's kind of like an osmosis that just goes through. So, you know, Craig knew what he was doing with the support of Michael, there was mistakes. I think that's one thing that's yeah, I'm gonna do another we win a Cammy Wilson, you win or you learn. Absolutely. The only way you you know, farmers have got this thing where when you do something, it's got to be right first time. Well, that's not life. That's not how you learn. You learn by things going about wrong and sharing that with other people. And you know, you might need to bring somebody else in who's experienced that challenge. Well, how do I get over? How do I go over that part? It could be that for for rotational grazing, it could be I need to look at a water supply here for these fields. So you need to bring in the expert for the guys that can do water pumps. Um, and then other farmers see that and they can challenge back a question and think, how is that going to work on my farm? I'm not sure if I've answered the question there, but if you see what I mean, it's it's just that kinosmosis and actually reaching out and sharing ideas, and then a lot of the time the farmers will say, Well, I had a problem with that, and this is the person who I spoke to. Um, and these people that you bring in are the ones that just know how farmers tick um and actually go out and show them how to do it, uh, show what how their farm's different and how they need to find a solution.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

Peter, sort of focusing on, you know, I've sort of I ask asked I owner there about the the innovations occurring and then uh Christine looking at the people involved, all of that sort of sets that groundwork, that foundation for progressing forward. So could you tell us some examples of some of the sort of positive shifts you've seen in those in the monitor farm management groups across the board? And maybe you want to speak about your region, and if Christine and Iona have any to add in for theirs, that would be great. You know, it doesn't just have to be business getting better, that can absolutely be one sort of technical addition. Also look at a difference in mindset in the way you sort of focus your focus on your business, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 34:29

Yeah, I think it's one of the most challenging questions. I would appreciate uh Iona Christine's uh input into this as well. I would say that the first uh year, maybe two years of uh the monitor farms, there was uh I would say it was in some ways quite conventional. We're looking at cattle health, sheep health, land management, soils. As it's progressed, and it's a three it's it's no longer a three-year programme, but a four-year programme, this fourth year, certainly I think with the other farms as well, but certainly up in the uh northeast, we've seen a an increasing focus and interest in how you change your business, how you change what you do. And it it's it's gone from just the technical stuff that you might see on a farm to some of the incredible innovation and opportunities that come from, say, the virtual farming, our virtual fencing project. You know, the the ability and that that comes with a change in mindset as you look at using technology on your farm to make a difference. But that then also comes with how can I afford this? Have I got time to do this? What skills do I need as a monitor farmer? What skills do my family or my staff need in order to take the farm in the next way, in the next to the next level? And that comes also with with again the notion that the confidence to say we believe in the livestock sector, say in the northeast, we believe in sheep, we believe in cattle, we're we're using the figures we've collected in the first couple of years and beyond to look at how we expand. Where do we find funding? Um, how do we diversify? What do we need to do with getting ourselves in a stable position, either whether it's succession um or feeling stable within your the workload that you're managing? Or how do what skills do I need to go on to the next step? Do I need to be a manager and not just a farmer? Can I manage with a different staff group? Because we've got challenges around about staffing. How do I retain staff? And these these increasingly uh greater and stronger business approaches to farming businesses is something I when I was in the program before 15 years ago, I don't think we got quite to that same level uh either with the individual farms or with the management group recognizing and requesting and asking for um well we did a play on succession planning last last year. We've we've got one of our accountants in the uh one of the management groups is formed a four-stage um piece of work called Driving Your Business, where we get farmers here from the perspective of a solicitor, an independent financial advisor, an accountant, um, and a banker, and how they can they are your dream team to take your ambitions forward. So I think we're we're seeing a lot of we're seeing a lot of optimism as well. I think there's there's people are voicing their optimism in the livestock sector uh more so I think even than they did at the beginning of the the programme. I think they're confident that they can play a part too in expanding herds or improving calving percentages and live calves to sale or and understanding more about this the whole supply chain and where they sit within it, and also being able to take control as well. I think there's more confidence about taking control of the business and who they sell to and who they buy from and how they know that they're profitable uh with their stock and with their enterprises or with their business as a whole. So all that's been really encouraging to see. Um, as people as I say, and I think it's it's confidence, enthusiasm, candidness. Uh it's it's a lot of features and understanding the business even better than they did at the beginning. All of these things come together, I think. And it's been great to be part of encouraging that and sharing enthusiasm and bringing people together to help make that happen quicker, I think, than it would have done. They're all they're all entrepreneurs, they would they would have moved there, but I think we've helped speed that up. And that's been a feature of almost all the Monet Farm programs going back to 2003.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Peter's spoken, I guess, very well across the board there. Uh, but Christine, I wanna, is there anything else that jumps out on top of that as well? For I guess your region.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

I think what I would say is that small changes can lead to really, really big shifts. And what I've noticed across all FEMA farms is that you can get certain blocks, um, and it's established what those blockers are and what can help. So, for example, at Lansedrum Head, when the soil analysis came back, um the pHs were quite low. Um, so it did there was a requirement for an investment in Lyme, um, which is a cost without a shadow of a doubt, but also the block was that they're on a very, very narrow uh road. Um it's all bulk tipper delivered now, lime. Um, so that was a challenge to actually so if something's a challenge and it's a block, it's quite easy to say just you never get round to it, just put it off, put it off. Um, but when the reality's sitting there in front of you and the figures are saying something, and there's never such a big driver as when you have folk come to your farm to meet you do something. Um that, you know, so they they built uh they clear an area that they could turn the tipper in and load it, and you know, the results for that are are dramatic in terms of you know that they've got a reseeding programme going because the pHs are getting up, they've got fodder crop. So from that's we're getting from getting rid of that we block, you know, that that's that's just how you can drive drive the change. And the only way you'll get rid of that block is by asking for a bit of help. You know, we're all really practicing that at this or you know, the chatting it through, what can we do to get over this? And once once you've done that, once you said actually it's okay to ask for help or to seek guidance, or you know, because why how would you know to do a lot of things unless somebody shows you it's a whole you know learning process and we learn all our lives. I mean, you always say, and here's another one the day you start learning is the day you die, and that that is absolutely true. Um, and another one would be Craig and Isla, who when we started the project had had a bricky of a phone that was not a smartphone, was only putting the lorry if he was going across to the mainland. And you know, but that I suppose in the background where you get encouraging support and help, and sometimes say, come on, just get a smartphone, we'll help you with it. And that's amazing. You know, Craig is doing videos for people, and you know, could actually do that learning him and Thomas with the rotational grazing um out there uh by having that technology in their hand. But if you've got a reblock there, you know, you need support to go over that, or you'll never get around to it, you'll never do it.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Yeah, very good point, actually. Have you have you add on that one, Iona?

SPEAKER_03 42:05

Or is yeah, yeah, no, uh, two standout ones for me, slightly obviously before when I started um a colleague Maura that did the job before me, she was involved in a big project um down at Dumfries a lambing project that you know has massively helped Richard's business, lowered lamb mortality, things like that. You know, looked into how they do their lambing, should they do it outside, should they not? Um, you know, that that then what life balance comes into that as well. How do they work it staffing-wise? But that uncovered a lot and has ultimately made his lambing better, which is more profit. Knock on of that, more money in the banks, more lambs to sell. So, you know, that's that's a really positive one. Another one, a big one for me that was a shocker, but we couldn't believe it because Robert Wilson's a staunch Hereford man. He uh got an Angus bull and his first cabs will be on the ground in March. So that's really exciting. But um he's now going to be crossing you know the Angus with the Hereford. So that just and that's throughout you know his management group and and going down different avenues and seeing what else he can do in his business, and he's opened up numbers as well. So you know, things like that, it's really exciting. But that all that's not just the birth just decided that themselves, it's the monarch uh farm group and the management group that's that's helped push that forward and and put these ideas. So I think we've all mentioned that confidence is is a real big one, and it's just giving people you know that boost of confidence and help. I think we're all we all need it. We like having somebody at the side of us that's possibly done it, and it gives us that bit of you know, push along, or that they can give good advice. Um, and I think that's really important, um, and just having that community. So I think the all these projects that have been involved across the monitor farm just shows that just with a bit of ambition and confidence in yourself and having the right people around you, you can achieve great things.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

Listen, guys, it's been great because I think it's you know, the the last nine episodes or the first. First nine episodes, I don't know how you would say that. Actually, I don't know which one that is, and I don't know which one sounds right now. And now I'm getting caught up in something that doesn't matter. Of this series is as I've said a couple times, but focusing on that management group in particular, and and um you know, you hear all these stories from people that are involved in those management groups, which is what is what this whole series is. And I'm like, how how does this all tie in? How does it all tie in? There's so much going on. How do you focus on it when you're just actually turning on to a meeting here and there? And there's there's so much more to it than that as we've sort of went over. Um and and you guys are are the ones to thank for just that, I think. But um we'll we'll sort of try and try and draw the episode to a close as we sort of come on with a few more things that I want to touch on. Sort of the whole focus of the last few minutes of these episodes, I think the whole way through, really. I've certainly intended them to be is that looking forward, you know. That's the whole point of of everything we're doing here is being better tomorrow than we were today. I thought stealing Christine's thing there, taking a shot. Um trying to sort of move forward, be better in the future than we are at the minute. And I guess the question I'd put is, and I'm gonna put this to all of you, um, because I think it's important to hear, I'll I'll go with Christine first because she is at the top again. Um, what what do you think the key challenges are for farmers in the next you know decade, five years to ten years? What do you think the key challenges we'll be seeing um in Scotland, but also by extension the UK, and maybe even with a particular focus on on your regions yourselves?

SPEAKER_02 45:25

Without a shadow of a doubt, it's climate. Um, you know, it affects farmers every day, and you know, there is there is no such thing as a season anymore, um, particularly in the West Coast. Um the weather is not in our control, but how you manage your farm is. Um, so you know, we've definitely seen that shift, particularly in the West Coast, back to you know, stock that is more native in type. Um personally, the you know, the days of big, heavy, heavy continental cattle, bigger is better. Um, I think there's going to be a shift back to your more resilient native breeds that have a lower impact. Um, you know, the we use the term regen, I don't really know what that means, but certainly there's a go back to more traditional way of how you farm and going back to what you know my grandfather's generation knew about how you're doing things, making the most of your grass. There's there's a huge reliance on um like bought-in products onto a farm. Um so I think it's going back to getting going back to basics, getting good foundations, getting your lime on, getting your nutrition right, and with the climate, the climate change, and that means that you know you have to really do things at different times of year. Um, get your silages analyzed because they are going to be hugely variable year for year, and that's going to impact the nutrition. Folk are going to have to be really, really, really on the basics and the fundamentals and get them right to be resilient to what the weather you know is changing. Get the basics right and then focus on the technologies that you can use to support that. So, for example, it is going back to like say the virtual fencing or the rotational grazing to make the most of what you have during your growing season, using virtual fencing to exclude fluky areas, for example, because we've got an over-reliance on um the medicines to treat these things. We've got resistance. Um, so one of the big things that we've really focused on is where are you just now? What's the basics and what is the fundamental issue you've got to rectify there before you go and spend money, you know, um, because there's an awful lot of folks spend money on things that are not actually fixing the problem. So test, test for fluke, analyze your silages, test your soils, know where you are, and then you can be more dynamic. And with that, it's something we probably haven't touched on, but it's a whole subject in itself, is what all mattery farmers are going to be doing this year is your enterprise costings. If you know how much something costs you, you can make an informed choice as to what you what you do, when do you buy, when do you sell? You can be more fluid, especially when you've got challenging weather circumstances as well. So for me, climate weather, is that a shadow of a doubt.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

Uh Iona, what do you think? It's quite a comprehensive answer from the Christine there, but there might be some other things left.

SPEAKER_03 48:46

I agree, totally agree with everything Christine would say. I'll go down the labour and education for myself, and getting people into agriculture, showing the benefits of it, the wonderful benefits. Um I think it needs to be taught from nursery primary one, where you know, your your food comes from, where does milk, bacon, you know, all the rest of it, your steak and things like that, where it comes from, because so many people don't know. So it's just educating that younger workforce. And then, yeah, going to you know, school, creating the events, you know, having SRUC, maybe more presence, or you know, or farmers there um that are able to offer you know work experience, things like that, and showing you know the true benefits of having an outside job, you know, you're bringing life into the world, seeing all these different sides to farming and you know, from working in a tractor to being in a milking parlour to doing you know these wonderful benefits um that they can have. I just don't think it's pushed enough, in my opinion. So I do think we need to do that because we do it one of the biggest problems in agriculture is is labour, labour shortages, because I wholeheartedly believe that farmers do need time off the farm. It's good for your mental health. You know, we haven't touched that, it's a massive subject. You know, you need to go off the farm, holidays, days away, um, and come back and reset. That that's huge. Um, and other things, you know, I I'm always a big believer on it, you know, sport, time off the farm, having something different away from it. Sport's a great one. You know, you can those all those are uh you know different things you can let off, endorphins is what I'm looking for. Um lay that off some steam and come back. So I I I do I do think that you know all comes into educating and time away. Uh the other thing is obviously we've got a change in government coming. Uh well we'll see if that happens, but yeah, policy changes, rising costs, things like that. Um yeah, it's just it's all it's all up in the air that we don't really know. The inheritance tax as well is a huge thing. I do think we've I've tried to spin that on my head. You know, we we talk talk about that a lot in the management groups, but you know, we have to look to the the positives of it and it where we get slipper farmers, people like that, you know, to get things changing and farming people out of farms, give younger people a chance to get in and um and have the chance to farm um on that degree. So we'll have to look to the positives. We can't always be doom and gloom um on that side of it. But yeah, no, I I do think it's um we look to the future and let's hope that there's going to be positives coming out of these things, and um, yeah, it'll be great for farming.

SPEAKER_01 51:20

Yeah, excellent. I always love to hear we know to education as well and getting folk in. That's always a always an important thing um as here in any sector. We're focusing on agriculture, but absolutely in any sector. And and and Peter, the ladies have done a good job of covering a lot there. Is there is there anything you you've got left?

SPEAKER_04 51:37

Yeah, I think looking at what's been said very much with Christine too, it really um nails what I think is going to be done and discussed in this last year of our monarch farms up in the north east as well. We had a really interesting uh couple of sessions with Gavin Hill, SEC, talking on uh uh his perspective of uh beef in the northeast. That was yesterday, and I think from that came some really interesting uh perspectives from again some very dynamic farmers and farm businesses that were at the meetings and where they see challenges going beyond the end of this program and then maybe looking at the next uh five years to ten years, um their own personal management skills, so much so important to gain these if you're looking to expand your business, particularly if expansion means bringing on new staff, particularly skilled staff, or sometimes expanding while maintaining the same number of staff, so they're spread out over a wider area, so they've got a bigger work uh you know, load or greater skills needed. So so that really came up. I think also knowing your market. So what you see is that some of the most successful farm farms that come to the northeast they have a particular business model and they know their market and they're distinguished as a particular type of farm. So people are coming to them because they're not just selling into a market anywhere, but they've got buyers, they've got people that they collaborate with. Collaboration is a big bit a big discussion. How do you move from working individually to gaining the benefit of collaboration, the strength of collaboration and cooperation? Do you do that formally? Um, can you do that formally and find that brings benefits because to the farmers that are coming to our monet farm meetings? And maintaining entrepreneurship. And now they're young, they're in their 30s, maybe early forties, 10 years from now. They're middle-aged or past middle age. And I've had more than one conversation saying, I hope I can keep my youthful entrepreneurship and encouragement through into an older age to keep looking to diversify, keep looking to move forward, keep looking to be enthusiastic. I think the other really interesting bit that comes from our certainly from the D-side group is the challenge of negativity in the industry. Last year we had our farmer management group moaning about people moaning uh about industry. And what we realize is that two negatives should make a positive. So it set the scene for the management group as we we talk about the positives, we talk up the importance of the livestock sector in Scotland and in the Northeast in particular. And I would say that that is that these management groups and the open meetings and everything reflect the positivity in the industry because that is essential to carry forward.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Yeah, I think I totally agree. And whether that's you know, somehow reading that into people uh as that person themselves, as you say, as they get they get older, but also then sort of around them and making it a narrative that's that's just what's there, you know, entrepreneurship, progressive, whatever the words are we're saying, making sure that that sort of environment, that that that feeling is there. Um listen, guys, we spoke here for for about an hour just sort of chatting about the role of what you guys do, but also that that management group as a as a whole. Just to sort of tie it up uh and guess sort of draw the episode to a close. It would be interesting to hear one thing from you all, just a sort of snappy, quick answer, what you think uh when I say this to you. So if you were to sort of if someone was to ask you what would be the legacy of the program, this program in particular that you've been running. I own, I know you've only been here for a few months, but you've got a gist of what's happening, obviously. What would be the legacy of the program that you would want to be left by this past four years of of Monitor Farmers? Who wants to go first? I'll leave it open to whoever wants to.

SPEAKER_02 56:15

I'll fire on here then. Uh positivity. You've got to be positive. Um and if you've got that, then you've got the right attitude and outlook. It's taken it's taken me 51 years to realise how positive a person I was. Um so yeah, I I hope the farmers will continue to keep the radiators round about them and not the drains, if that makes sense. Um I'm gonna have to finish on you know another weekly shade as it's Burns night and Sunday night, but all the gift that God would ski us to see ourselves as others see us, you know. So it took me, it took me a while to realize it put folks on me was a hugely positive person, and hopefully the legacy that that will be left across the farms from the farmers themselves who are hugely positive. And look, you know, don't spend your time moaning, spend your time looking for a solution. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:14

I mean, I mean what Christine said there, for those that don't know Christine, is is perfect, but she has lied because she's actually only 35 years old. I don't know what that other number she was talking about was. Iona or Peter, who wants to jump in?

SPEAKER_03 57:27

Strong positive drivers for agriculture. Again, the positivity shines through here, doesn't it? But yeah, um people that can pave the way for hopefully, you know, the next set of monitor farmers and beyond. And yeah, I think we were creating something really special, and um the people that are monitor farmers right at the start, um, to people that are doing it right now, it's it's leaving a real legacy. And um, I think I think that's something something really special, and it shows that things can be achieved when you when you put your mind to it, the great things.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

Yeah, very good. And to to end us off, Peter, what would be the legacy of your programme?

SPEAKER_04 58:07

Well, I think we, you know, myself, management group members, everybody else that's come to Monet Farms, and particularly the monitor farmers, have just gained such a unique set of perspectives. I think it's a huge privilege to just step out onto others' farms and and hear how candid farmers are about sharing their challenges and their hopes and and concerns and going forward their plans. And I my hope is that this continues with these groups way beyond the end of the conventional monitor farm programme this year.

SPEAKER_01 58:45

Excellent. Well, thank you all. It's been a pleasure having you all on. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 58:53

Thank you. Yeah, I enjoyed that. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 58:56

I'm glad, I'm glad. And for those for those of you listening, Christine did also say thank you, but she was muted, I don't think she realized. Uh you all sorry for that, Kristin. I realized it would be obvious you hadn't been heard. Um, but yeah, for for those listening, uh, you know, that's that's been Christine, Peter, and Iona sort of wrapping up what's been a really good series there, covering the management groups. Um, as I said at the start, if you're wondering what this is all about, uh series one was about the monitor farmers themselves. So they would have they would come and have a chat about the farm and the sort of progression through at that point. Um this podcast started right on the three-year birthday, um, sorry, two-year birthday right on the halfway mark. Um, so we were talking with them then, then moved into sort of different projects and and and innovations being seen in series two. And then you'll enjoy series three the best, because I wasn't the host um with a much better voice than uh when I was out in China. Um and that sort of covered various things, looking at uh at resilience, looking at succession and and and various other um projects there. And then this this series, as I've said, has been focusing on that management group and those around it, i.e., these guys here that make it all happen and make the magic work. Um so thank you for listening to another series of Field Talk. Thank you for the last ten episodes and the last 40 episodes, I guess, depending on how you like to look at it. The um the I guess the the end of this year or this batch of monitor farmers is is upon us. It is 2026 that they'll finish their four years. And if you're interested, yeah, maybe have something to consider there. And maybe, maybe we shall see you for another episode soon. So thank you very much for listening, and we shall potentially see you then.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

Thanks for tuning in to the Monitor Farm Scotland podcast. As we head into the final year of the programme, we'll be taking a short break after Series 4. Our upcoming Series 5 will be returning in the summer celebrating the monitor farmers who have driven change, challenged themselves, and shape the future of their farms over the past four years. Their stories, reflecting, and lasting legacies are all still to come. In the meantime, don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. To stay up to date with our latest news and events, visit the Monitor Farm Scotland website and follow us on social media for regular updates and insights into what our farms are getting up to. Monitor Farm Scotland is funded by the Scottish Government and managed by Qualtimate Scotland and HDB.