Ep 9 BONUS Job-Sharing in a Senior Role

In this bonus mini-episode, we're hearing from Brooke Black and Sonia D'Ametto, who share the role of Executive Director of People Culture and Talent at the Premier’s Department. 

They talk about how they got started, how they make the role work and share their advice for anyone thinking about job-share opportunities. 

SHOW CREDITS
Host: Jo Rose
Writers: Alessia Campagna, Nicola Hardy and Jo Rose
Producer and Editor: Alessia Campagna
Technical Producer: Anthony Watson
Executive Producers: Jo Rose and Nicola Hardy

Music Credits:
Let The Good Times Roll: Music from #Uppbeat
https://uppbeat.io/t/ra/let-good-times-roll
License code: DNAIHKYCKOUU6HBT

Enchanted Puzzle: Music from #Uppbeat
https://uppbeat.io/t/andrey-rossi/enchanted-puzzle
License code: YTN0OYX8RBDDUQ73

Easy Flow: Music from #Uppbeat
https://uppbeat.io/t/hybridas/easy-flow
License code: R2FTWOYRCB7YOW21

Not That Easy: Music from #Uppbeat
https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/not-that-easy
License code: MYQOVXXWAFZULECH

On Tiptoes: Music from #Uppbeat
https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/on-tiptoes

We would like to acknowledge the Traditional Owners of the land on which the podcast is taking place today. We pay our deep respects to all Elders past, present and emerging. We would also like to extend that respect to any Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples listening today.

Transcript

Play Tape | Acknowledgement of Country 

IPAA NSW acknowledges the traditional owners of the lands and waters this podcast is recorded on and pay our respects to elders past and present.  Through sharing stories on IPAA Insiders, we pay homage to the rich story telling history of the world’s oldest living culture, the traditional custodians of the lands on which we live, work and play. We extend our respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander People listening today.

Music Break 

Standard Intro Script – Music Underlay 

Welcome to IPAA Insiders, the podcast that takes the topics that are top of mind and shares unique perspectives and actionable advice from senior leaders, blue sky thinkers, and IPAA members across the sector.

Play Tape – You’re listening to IPAA Insiders voice roll 

Music Break 

Script for Bonus Ep 1

Music Intro 

Jo Narration - Episode set up

Welcome to a bonus mini-episode of IPAA Insiders. Today, we’re getting a glimpse into the world of Job-Sharing in a senior Government role. 

Brooke Black and Sonia D’Ametto have been job sharing their role – Executive Director of People Culture and Talent at the Premier's Department for about 4 years. It’s a big job, with lots of demands, and we’re going to hear from Brooke and Sonia about how they make it work. 

So let’s dive in! 

Play Tape

Sonia Dametto 

I am Sonia D 'Amato. And I'm Book Black and we job-share the executive director of People Culture talent role at the Premier's Department of South Wales.

Sonia Dametto 

I've been working with the public sector for 11 years. 

Brooke Black

And so have I.

Sonia Dametto 

I was with local government before I came to New South Wales government. And for me, I like...public service for what it gives back to the community and what we can do to support the government of the time. It also has allowed for me during my time in New South Wales government to progress with my career as a female who's had three babies in that time. So it's been very valuable for me and my family to be able to do that.

Brooke Black

For me, similar to Sonia, I guess my values, my personal values align very much to the public sector values. I came from private sector and I really like the fact that we were working for people, being a people person. The other piece is it's really exciting, particularly being in the centre of government where we are, to be able to be working on really interesting things, no one day is the same. super hectic sometimes but really really love it. Bit of an adrenaline junkie. And also I have two children, both require you know, attention in certain ways. They've both got a disability and in the early days I needed to be more supportive around appointments but now it just works for me really really well to have a balanced three days a week that I share the other half with Sonia.

Sonia Dametto 

Brooke and I both worked together before we were job share partners. So we were colleagues and worked very well together. There were different situations and circumstances in our personal lives that made it, I guess, possible for me to go part -time as I came back from having a baby and Brooke had already had kids and wanted to be part -time. So the pure existence or coincidence of circumstances sometimes plays a part in forming a job share. I think the relationship that Brooke and I built prior to becoming a job share was really significant because from our perspective, to be a successful job share, you have to have that inherent trust between each other. And so we do trust each other, we trust each other's judgment, and we do know a little bit about how the other person works and therefore makes it slightly easier for us to understand how we might progress a piece of work or whatever it may be.

I think Brooke would agree with me. When we first started doing a job share, we did sit down and really have a think about some principles we were going to abide by. And we just brought up what we put together back then and those principles are pretty much the same. So yes, we've evolved together as a job share, but we've really committed at the start to how we were going to work and I think it helps that we're friends and that we have a bit of a loyalty to each other as well.

<Music Break>

Brooke Black

For me, there's a bit about... when you're going solo, you put in all the work, you get all the glory, you're the one that presents it, everyone goes, well, great job. In a job share, have to be really okay with the fact that you may not be the person that is shooting the hoop, you may be the person that's dribbled the ball down the court. Do you like that basketball reference? Yeah, So I think you need to be okay with that. So certain personalities, these wouldn't be and it would definitely create some friction. We're very okay that we can play the role. And I think the other thing is you need to have the same sort of internal motivation level.

So both Sonia and I, we're not perfectionists, but we're very conscientious, we're very driven, we're very goal -orientated, very customer service -orientated. We've got those same sort of delivery goals. I think if one person wasn't so achievement -focused you'd feel some inequities that wouldn't work in a job share. we feel that we very equally carry the load.

Sonia Dametto 

Brooke and I agreed very early on that our role It really requires us to be across most things. both of us and so to enable that we need to make sure that there's a very seamless transition between Brooke and My Days. 

So there are certain meetings that we might have on a Wednesday together because it's just beneficial for us to both be there. That's not always possible. We ensure most people in the business know to CC if they send me an email, they CC Brooke on the email. So we're always across pretty much every email. And if we see that when Brooke's not CC'd in an email, I'll respond and CC her in. And also we do as a logistical thing, we have a bit of a handover which we book updates on Tuesday night for me to review on Wednesday and then I'll update on Friday night for her to review. It has become quite a lengthy document. We haven't found, I guess, the best way in doing that, for us, in terms of the way we work, there's no avoiding it. I need to be across what's happened. And emails don't always cut it because there's conversations that have happened. Especially in our role.

So we do spend a lot of time and effort to make sure that that happens because we've been really clear with the business from day one and that's including our team that if you tell one of us you've told both of us.

That's really the motto, I guess, we've stood by the whole time. And so that does mean though that I have to make sure that I'm putting in the effort to make sure that she's across what's happened on my days and vice versa. And it hasn't failed us since really.

<Music Break>

Brooke Black

We don't call each other for every single decision that we make on the days that the other person's not working. We make decisions and we make decisions based on what we understand, what we know and what we feel is the right way. Now, the way I make decisions and what I take into consideration and how I weight those considerations is different to the way Brooke does it. And we may sometimes come together and go, I may not have done it that way or may not have made that decision, but it's accepting the fact that that decision was made and then being able to work with that.

and being able to adjust. I mean it happens weekly. Daily. Yeah, to be able to adjust to that and then recalibrate, kind of intertwine how Brooke does things and how I do things on our different days and somehow it works out to an outcome.

Because what I've learnt through this is there is no one best way to approach a situation. There can be multiple ways to approach it and it can depend on so many different factors and my way is not always the best way. 

Usually the way when we get together and talk about it ends up being an excellent way because it's two views but when you...on your own on that day and you make the decision. I sometimes put a Sonya hat on and go, would Sonya say? but there is always change and nothing that we think is gonna happen, particularly in the tricky space that is people, ever really goes according to a plan. And it's always continual revision with each other. We always go, okay, well that happened.

maybe next time we'll try it this way or when another situation comes up we say, remember what happened here, maybe we try it this way instead this time. But it's always continually not being down on yourself if you could have made a better decision, it doesn't matter. You still keep going and you just, you just learn from it by reflection, either with each other or with others we've both agreed to let go of those kind of things right at the start and we've been able to do that, but it's still a huge learning curve and a growth for both of us because it isn't your own and there's no sole ownership.

Brooke Black

It's hard work, but the benefits are that we're able to have that part -timeness at the same time as the business still getting. you know, the right amount of service that they need from an executive director.

And they also get double the knowledge and experience. So we actually come from very different backgrounds. And I think one of the benefits for us, and I'm probably answering a question you're going to ask later, but one of the benefits I think we both agree on is that we have learned so much in doing the job share, more so than you ever would just being promoted into a new role. Because I have learned so much in the OD space and the space that Brooke brings her has her strengths and she's learned stuff from areas that I have experience in. we both bring a different unique perspective and therefore being able to rely on that kind of considered dual perspective approach in lots of tricky situations especially in the area that we deal with is really valuable. 

It's like a mini innovation team really. We have been called a unicorn because it's In one person, you wouldn't be able to find this experience.

<Music Break>

IPAA Insiders is a production of IPAA NSW. Our Producer is Alessia Campagna, with mixing and sound design by Anthony Watson, our Executive Producers are Me, Jo Rose and Nicola Hardy. 

If there is anyone you know who might get something out of this episode, please share it with them.

 If you want to ask our community a question, you can message me on LinkedIn. 

If you’re enjoying this series, we want to know! We always love your feedback. Leave us a review on whatever podcasting app you use. It’s just one key to getting new people to discover the show.

See you next episode for IPAA Insiders