2 Soft Compounds
2 Soft Compounds is a weekly podcast focusing on Formula 1, hosted by radio broadcaster Rick Houghton and motorsport journalist and GrandPrix247 founder, Paul Velasco.
With a focus on unfiltered analysis, behind-the-scenes insights and expert commentary, the podcast offers fans an entertaining and informative take on the fastest sport in the world.
2 Soft Compounds
From Hero to Zero: Lawson's Axing and Tsunoda's Big Break at Suzuka
2 Soft Compounds - From Hero to Zero: Lawson's Axing and Tsunoda's Big Break at Suzuka
🚨 Red Bull chaos! On this week’s 2 Soft Compounds, Rick Houghton and Paul Velasco unpack and offer their thoughts on the shock mid-season driver swap that’s rocked the paddock. Liam Lawson is out after just two races, and Yuki Tsunoda is promoted — just in time for his home Grand Prix at Suzuka.
👀 The guys pull no punches on how they think Red Bull handled the situation plus they revisit the infamous curse of the Red Bull second seat. Why do so many talented drivers struggle alongside Max Verstappen? And can Tsunoda break the cycle?
🔥 There's also a full Japanese Grand Prix preview and the usual no-holds-barred banter - this is 2 Soft Compounds!
Podcast Rundown
1️⃣ Introduction
2️⃣ Red Bull's Controversial Driver Switch
3️⃣ The Curse of Red Bull's Second Seat
4️⃣. Red Bull's Car Development Problem
5️⃣. Suzuka Race Preview and Predictions
6️⃣. Team-by-Team Analysis for Japanese GP
7️⃣ Final Thoughts
Production Credits:
Presented by: Rick Houghton & Paul Velasco
Studio Engineer & Editor: Roy D'Monte
Executive Producer: Ian Carless
Produced by: GrandPrix247 & W4 Podcast Studio
Hi, welcome to the Two Soft Compounds podcast. Before we begin, I've got a quick favour to ask. There's one simple way you can support our show, and that's by hitting that follow or subscribe button on the app you're listening to the show on right now. It really does make a huge difference in helping us get the show out there to as many people as possible, so please give us a hand and click that button right now. Thank you, I don't make mistakes. I make prophecies that immediately turn out to be wrong.
Speaker 2:Anything can happen in Formula One and it usually does.
Speaker 1:Hey, welcome to another podcast. It's me Rick and it's him Paul, the founder and chief editor of GrandPrix247.com. And wow, you know, two races into the Formula One season. We've got a break between China and Japan at the moment, but Formula One, in terms of newsworthiness, could not be more active at the moment. Paul, what the hell is going on?
Speaker 2:Geez, it's sizzling. I've already forgot about those two races, but it's just been a week of total Red Bull blanket coverage, of Liam Lawson being axed after two races and Yuki Tsunoda getting promoted I mean Japanese driver debut with the Red Bull team at Suzuka. I mean, it's one of those old school cool racetracks. He probably knows it really well. Like I always say, you can't script this stuff, it's just of those old school cool racetracks. He probably knows it really well. Like I always say, you can't script this stuff, it's just absolutely unbelievable. And the Lawson story. Well, anyway, I'm going to let you lead because, like I said, there's so much to talk about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Red Bull have decided to drop Liam Lawson from the main Red Bull team and send him back to the Racing Bulls and replace him with Yuki Tsunoda for the Japanese Grand Prix presumably the Japanese Grand Prix onwards. Red Bull, I think, handled this in an absolutely despicable way. Someone leaked it. Someone leaked it. I have a feeling it's Helmut Marko leaked it. Helmut Marko has always got something to say, he's always outspoken.
Speaker 1:But the press picked up on this four or five days before it was actually made official, which made me feel really sorry for Liam Lawson, because he apparently found out by reading an article on a website you know how fair and nice is that He'd already been vilified for his performances in Australia and China. And then his name is dragged through the mud by the press and then someone leaks at Red Bull that they're going to replace him, rip him out of the car and swap drivers. I just thought the whole thing was kind of disgusting. And then, when Red Bull made their official announcement, it was like, oh, we have a duty of care for Liam, to make sure we can look after him and develop him as a racer.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh, come on, wow, mate, sure we can look after him and develop him as a race driver. I'm like, oh, come on. Wow, mate, that was a rant. Yeah, wow, that was a rick rant. Okay, great, jeez, you don't want to be in the room with this guy on your rant, mate. Well, I'm absolutely with you, I mean, but you know what it's. Why is it a surprise? Everyone needs a surprise. Show me a number two driver that red bull have treated decently, ever correct? Yeah, let's, yeah, let's go backwards. Sergio Perez, they treated him disgustingly. Let's go really backwards. You know what You're talking.
Speaker 2:When the team became a power 2009-ish, when they became a winning combination, it became ruthless. It became Marco's man. Seb Vettel in one corner and Mark Webber true grit, that guy I respect more and more every day, apart from what he's doing with Oscar. How he survived that Red Bull thing, you know how he did. I mean, I don't have certificates or receipts or anything to say this, but just the overall picture from the narrative is that Mark kept his drive at Red Bull when Marco really wanted him out, because he had a very good friendship with Dietrich Mateschitz, to the point that I think Mark used to go and visit Dietrich's private island as a guest, like a personal guest, so it wasn't a business thing with him. So Mark kept that seat and many times he was disposed as the second driver, number two.
Speaker 2:So the treatments if you want to look at the source of the treatment, it started there but it took a guy like Mark who's, like I said, true grit. The guy's got balls. You don't want to take him on and he was already an elder statesman of a driver when he joined the team. So they couldn't bully him. They tried to. They tried to. They used to give Vettel the better car and I understand it. It's cool, but you didn't have to advertise it like I did. Once at Silverstone, sev got the good wing and Mark got the shit wing. So you know Mark survived that. But when have they ever been able to have a good number two?
Speaker 1:Never.
Speaker 2:It's never happened. It's never sat well. The divorce from Vettel and Ricciardo taking over was clumsy. Then Ricciardo decided to leave and that caught them. They thought Ricciardo was going to stay, and that caught them. And then they put Pierre Gasly in the car, destroyed his career. Alex Albon they also destroyed Daniel Kvyat. I mean, they destroyed so many drivers.
Speaker 1:Do you know what, Paul? Do you think Perez needs an apology for the way he was treated Of?
Speaker 2:course he did. You must have read our site, because Jad Malek actually said he needs an apology. Perez needs an apology. All those guys need an apology Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And Perez' shares just shot up apparently. You know what I mean. They got right through the roof because they realized look, what is the problem with that number two car? Is it cursed? Is it whatever?
Speaker 2:No, if you speak to all the experts that I've spoken to, max has developed that car in such a way and the team have developed it for him, because it is Team Max Verstappen, let's be honest for his driving style. His driving style is very pointy, very loose at the back, but he controls the back and it just does not instill confidence in other drivers. Other drivers try and mimic his setup. They can't. They try and do something different. They can't. So Max has this driving style that no one can actually emulate. But the number two driver is not supposed to beat Max. He's supposed to beat Max. It's supposed to be within three-tenths of Max. That is what Helmut Marko wants three-tenths of Max. That didn't happen with Lawson. Now maybe it happens with Tsunoda, who knows? But the reality is that is what happened.
Speaker 2:But the way Red Bull have handled it, you can think conspiracy theory. You can think that car's deliberately sabotaged because they want the number two driver to get a lot of publicity when they're number one. I mean, look how much publicity they got this year so far, and Max hasn't even won a race. But it's all Red Bull-dominated headlines. Yeah, they're a marketing company, they're the best at it. So they said I don't believe that, but that's what some people are saying. Because of the way they handle it, this is how they allow it these kind of stories to surface, you know. So yeah, I'm with you. 100 just putrid handling of a situation. But at the same time, this is formula one. Liam lawson. I think he should have had more races, but he's gone, so let's not even talk about that. I think the exciting thing is yuki tsunoda. How's he going to do on his home race? What are you predicting?
Speaker 1:well, this, I mean this is the fascinating thing here. This, I mean this is can you imagine if liam lawson goes back to the racing bulls and out qualifies yuki tsunoda in a racing bull, with yuki being in the main red bull car? I mean that where do they go from there? Because they finally have to say, ok, liam Lawson wasn't useless, it's the car. You know, max is the only one who can drive it, end of. Because we've tried all these drivers, no one can get a grip to it. And look, we've sent Liam back to the racing bulls. He's outqualified Yuki. I think they're in a real quandary if that happens. I mean, I agree with you, max is the only one who can drive the car.
Speaker 1:I was speaking to someone the other day. They were saying Formula 1 cars have a narrow window of drivability, but the Red Bull has the narrowest. So in other cars you can afford to over or understeer a little bit and it will be forgiving. In the Red Bull it's not forgiving on any level. If you oversteer just an inch, it will put you into the wall. If you understeer, it will put you into a spin. You know the red bull is developed around max. Max's driving style is very precise. If you see the onboard footage from max, he makes it look hell of a really easy. But it's not, and I think everyone who comes up in the second car just can't handle it. So they've either got to change the dynamics of the car to get a teammate to work. I mean, someone even the other day said well, why don't you put Max in the racing bulls then? Because he might have a better chance, because at the moment they actually look more drivable than the main Red Bull car.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing. If the racing bull is comfortable for Lawson, it is comfortable for Lawson. It's a car he's familiar with, surroundings, work. He's spent, you know, 11 races there, so he knows that car, he knows the environment and, from what I saw, a rookie, hajar and a relative veteran to him, which was Tsunoda, really could extract a lot out of that car. So let's see To start off with Lawson. Has to own Hajar, yeah, straight away.
Speaker 2:Let's see To start off with Lawson. Has to own Hadja, straight away. There can't even be an argument. He's got to own him immediately because he's driven 11 Grand Prixs, hadja's driven two. He's run 13 Grand Prixs to Hadja's two. He's got to beat him there. In terms of Tsunoda, he's got to get within three-tenths of Max. That might be a tough ask for this race but from what I hear, yuki might like the kind of setup that Max runs on the car. This is going to be a very fascinating and revealing weekend as we see how Tsunoda adapts to this car. If he can adapt to this car, then everyone who couldn't they shit. If he can be within three-tenths of Max, he's good. But uh, yeah, let's see. You know, I I I wish the best for him. I've never been confident that he's a elite driver, I think he's just sub-elite. But, uh, this could be the motivation that he needs, the inspiration and uh, yeah, I really would like him to succeed, just so that this whole red bull number two driver saga can come to an end.
Speaker 1:So apparently it was Honda that gave Red Bull $100 million to get Sonoda into the Red.
Speaker 2:Bull $100 million.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did you hear that.
Speaker 2:No, I've heard that they paid money, but I can't believe. $100 million, $100 million who?
Speaker 1:knows.
Speaker 2:Anyway, well, I'll have to check that number, but honestly that's a lot of money. I'd imagine 10 or 5, or engine discounts or whatever the hell these guys do. But this is supposed to be the Japanese Grand Prix preview. So there you go, but let's be honest, this has been a major element in terms of the preview. But let's go back to the sharp end, where the action is, and let's start with doing a little bit of a prediction. Where are we going? We're going to Suzuka. I'm saying Verstappen. Wow, no, the loser's got to go. You have first dibs because you lost.
Speaker 2:Remember I got Piastri. Yeah, you haven't let me forget. Really I got Piastri. Remember that, eh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you did, you did Very clever. Yeah, you did, you did. You're very clever, I'm going, you know, I'm going for Norris again, oh yeah thank you, you're so concentrated, I'm going to go for.
Speaker 1:Verstappen. That's interesting, you know. I think Verstappen certainly likes the track, the Japanese Grand Prix. He's done very well there. Before the other driver to look out for I think in this is going to be Hamilton. Before I think of this is going to be Hamilton, because he's always had success at Japan, mate Ferrari won't even find the keys to the cars man. Well, exactly.
Speaker 2:You know, will they even arrive? Will they get the right plane? I mean, you know the way those guys are going. Look, as far as I see it, max is an angry boy. I heard he didn't like the fact that Lawson's been axed. Well, they shouldn't tr drown him so badly then. But anyway, I just uh. I think there's a win overdue, and suzuka is the kind of track where you can throw up a lot of variables and yeah, of course, the team's built around him. I do see it being his weekend. It'll be tough because the mclarens have the edge on terms of pace, pecking order, pace, everything. And piastri just raised the bar yet again. So let's see how Norris responds, because Norris has to respond. It's kind of been their teammateship has been a bit like that Ping pong he goes faster than I go and he goes faster. So let's see what Norris has to respond. Piastri serves a brilliant first serve, so let's see what the return is from Norris. And what do you say about the McLarens?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the McLarens are doing what they set out to do. I think they are the fastest car out of all of them. I think this track will suit their driving style because there's lots of long straights, lots of full throttle moments. I think McLaren are clearly the fastest in a straight line. I think Williams might do surprisingly well at Japan. I mean, I looked at the stats. Um, in the first two races this season, williams have scored more points than they did in the entire entirety of last year. Uh, which is great for them, and I think they're another car really fast in a straight line, as are the racing bulls, yeah well, that's, uh, that has been a bit of a surprise of the season, especially albon's form vis-à-vis Sainz.
Speaker 2:Sainz has been pretty embarrassing. Actually, I'm sure he'd even say that to himself, but you know it's early days. Like many drivers, he's had to adapt to the new team and he's taken longer than most, unlike Lewis, who came in boom. Okay, it wasn't a Grand Prix, but he won the sprint race, which shows us what Ferrari is capable of, yeah, and how that car was so good towards the end on tires, and then the next day they just got the maths totally wrong. And that's why, with Ferrari, uh, I'm gonna say the car is probably the second quickest car out there. Um, yeah, those are.
Speaker 2:Suzuka will be quite interesting, but in terms of how Lewis just is, you give him the right car and he's just gonna do stuff magic, we saw it. Charlotte Clark's got some chasing to do. So, yeah, with Ferrari, though, you just don't know what they're going to do in terms of the pitfall and how they're going to screw it up. You mean, yeah, yeah, pretty much. I hate to say that, because when the Tifosi suffer, I don't like to stick the knife in. When they do well, I stick the knife in. But when they suffer, I think you know we need a strong Ferrari. And to get disqualified that's so embarrassing, that's so so especially. You know the way they did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and not just one car. Two cars for two different reasons. How's that not double-checked?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't understand what's going on there. It was just a weird weekend for them, you know, from absolute glory of Lewis winning, which is like a fairy tale, and then again stuff you can't script, and then the day after they just went nowhere. So, yeah, I see that being the scenario, with Ferrari hanging in there with Max. Let's see where Tsunoda goes. As far as the other guys are concerned, I was quite impressed with Haas. I mean, they really did quite a good comeback, if you think about it. And yeah, I think the season's panning out pretty much as we expected McLaren leading, norris leading the charge, but PSG not going to give up, and let's not forget about the P3 Mercedes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think George Russell is proving himself as a perfect team leader. I think you know, I was a little bit on the fence in the off-season. I was thinking can he really lead that team? But he's proven that he can. He's doing it maturely. I think Antonelli is a great rookie driver to be in that team. I think Toto Wolff made perfect sense when he made that decision, even though many of us thought he's too young, he's not ready, but clearly he can compete. You know he wasn't stunning in China, Antonelli, but he had a great drive to go from 16th to 4th in Australia. So there's clearly something there, and I think Mercedes are hovering around Ferrari in terms of pace.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I'm very impressed, like you, with Antonelli. He's defied my expectations and he keeps on up this trajectory than he really belongs in Formula 1. So I think Valtteri Portis can sit down and take his helmet off, because he won't be replacing him anytime soon. George, I'm with you. I've always believed that George would come into his own once Lewis left the team, because, you know, he raced under the shadow of Lewis. He had a lot of respect for Lewis they're both British drivers and he understood the legacy that Lewis had with the team. So I don't think we always saw the best of George and he was suspect in wheel-to-wheel combat, but he's ticked two boxes very, very well.
Speaker 2:And I think Mercedes are the surprise package. Well, they're not a surprise, but they should be winning. But I think they surprised themselves and they surprised us. So, yeah, I think the fact that we've got four teams in there with a really, really good chance, I think is amazing.
Speaker 2:One thing, though, before we actually switch off on this one you know, I can't recall in recent history a driver only surviving two races and being kicked out at the start of a season. But you know what? Hey, one thing that we've got to note is Flavio Briatore might be looking at all this and he'll be looking at Doohan, and Doohan really can't afford a mistake this weekend. He's really got to put that alpine right behind Gasly or in front of him whenever he can and not make a single mistake. I have a feeling that if Doohan doesn't do himself proud this weekend, he might be also heading out the door, which would be super, super unprecedented two drivers in three or four races, you know. So that's the only thing I see further down the grid of really any interest let me ask you a question, paul.
Speaker 1:I mean you don't have to answer it if, if you don't want to, but let me ask you a question is helmet marco an elderly bully, and why is he still involved in Formula One?
Speaker 2:Hmm, You're referring to Lawson being bullied, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the other drivers that have gone by the wayside over the years.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think. Look, all team principals are bullies. All guys who run teams run drivers. I've seen coaches coach karting kids. They're all bullies. Those kids not all of them, some have different techniques, but that kind of leader is a bully. He's just that. That's by his nature. Now I don't like to knock helmet marco, because helmet marco has discovered two world champions who brought eight world titles in the last 15 or 16 years. So, unfortunately, this is a cutthroat sport Either swim and you swim fast or you get knocked out. So, in terms of the amount of drivers that they've tried, they've taken two and they've won half the championships since 2009. How many drivers on the grid owe them their starts, their junior careers, to Helmut Marko's Red Bull driver program?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean their junior program.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah, wait, wait. Carlos Sainz. I'm going to answer your question around about kind of what? Carlos Sainz, alex Albon those are the guys on the grid. Pierre Gasly you go into wec guys who raced before sebastian bohemi, all those guys. They made a lot of careers for guys. Now in the top team they've got max verstappen, who is probably the best driver of all time.
Speaker 2:Prior to that they had sebastian, sebastian vettel and mar Marco aligned himself to Vettel and Verstappen. He made no secret about it. Is he rough? Does he call it like he sees it? Yes, you might say he's never won world championships like Niki Lauda did. But you got to remember one thing Helmut Marco was a very good racing driver before Niki even got going.
Speaker 2:Won le mans, I think in 1970, the fastest le mans ever, and there's 917 porsches, which are basic scaffoldings with v12, turbo engines or whatever the hell they had on the back of those things, you know, the scariest cars you could drive. He won le mans 24 hours with two drivers, him and chris van lennep, a dutch guy, and then and marco was being hailed as as a really potential Formula One driver until he had an accident took out his eye, I believe, in France at the French Grand Prix and after that he's the guy who convinced Dietrich Mateschitz to get involved. He had a team called a pro car team. It was basically BMW M1s running a one-make series owned by Bernie and he ran a pro car team. It was basically BMW M1s running a one-make series owned by Bernie and he ran a pro car team there. He ran Formula 2 teams, he ran Formula 3 teams and then he got this role as a diver program.
Speaker 2:So, to answer your question, is he a bully? Yes, but that's part of the job. Yeah, why is he still there? Do you think Because Dietrich Mateschitz and him were like almost best mates? Do you think Because Dietrich Mateschitz and him were like almost?
Speaker 1:best mates, but Dietrich's no longer with us. Well, the son will have loyalty.
Speaker 2:There's loyalty, there's still loyalty in life. I don't know if it is an English thing. I don't think that the English thing is not big on loyalty. They like to build people up and then crash on them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but there is, and yeah, I mean we mentioned it before. It's worth mentioning again before we finish.
Speaker 2:No, let us know, I wanted to pick your brain. What are your thoughts on Helmut Marko?
Speaker 1:I've always thought Helmut Marko was almost like a silent assassin. You know, it doesn't do much media, it doesn't do any interviews. You just see him in the back of the garage, you see him whispering into the ears of drivers and you see him whispering into the ears of Christian Horner. When this story about Lawson broke to me, it was kind of typical Helmut Marko in my eyes, and I might be completely wrong about this, but the story, whichever way you look at it, the story leaked.
Speaker 1:Someone leaked the story. They didn't keep everything under wraps until you know, a day before the Japanese Grand Prix or today, for instance, where they held a press conference and they brought all the parties together, someone leaked it. And that leak started apparently on the Sunday night after the Chinese Grand Prix, where someone said something oh, lawson's got to go, he's crap, he's not performing, we've got to make a switch, blah, blah. It was all over the media from the Monday morning. Everyone was talking about it, and so I want to know who leaked it. And to me it just looks like I can't see horner leaking things. I just look like a helmet marco thing, and I don't know why. I think that maybe it's because he's an old man, I don't know, but it just seems as though someone leaked it and it had to start somewhere yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm not going to disagree with you. I don't have any proof that there was leakage or not. I just think. Sometimes people think there's a leak, but sometimes journalists are also quick to make assumptions yeah, they're savvy yeah they make assumptions.
Speaker 2:You know it's like, hey, listen, one plus one equals two and this is a very simple one plus one. It's like you know, know, lawson has been that again Lawson's done so bad. I mean, I'm a Lawson protagonist, I'm a fan. I thought this guy's going to do good after these that weekend. I would. I would do the same say sorry, mate, you've got to go you're not ready.
Speaker 2:You're not ready. I've got. I've got Yuki. Let's put him in. It wouldn't. Wouldn't even cross my mind. I'm not being a bully, anything. I don't know how Lawson was treated, but you know what? If you can't stand the heat, truck off, get out of the kitchen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I agree. My concern is that Yuki's going to find that Red Bull exactly as hard to drive as Lawson did, and if that happens, then Red Bull just looks stupid.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm hoping that Yuki surprises everyone and enjoys a pointy car and when Max looks he sees Yuki in his mirrors. I would hope that would be the story for the future.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that would be great. I mean, it really would be great. Be great for the sport, be great for Red Bull, be great for Yuki Tsunoda and you know Lawson's not going to to, he's going to the B team effectively but so far this season the performances from the Racing Bulls have been good. You know he could still make a name for himself on the Drivers Championship list this year by being with the Racing Bulls. If he plays it right, you know he could surprise many, many people big weekend for those two lads, big weekend for Formula One, big for big.
Speaker 2:Big weekend for japan, big in japan. Alpha vill song you could, you could end it all for that. Uh, indeed it's gonna be, and riveting stuff, like you know riveting stuff.
Speaker 1:Yep, can't wait. Uh, the grand prix is soon, which will be reporting on here on the two soft compounds podcast. For, though, paul Velasco, thank you very much, my friend Pleasure my man, it was really good to hear you fired up.
Speaker 1:We'll see you next time on the Two Soft Compounds podcast. Two Soft Compounds was presented by myself, rick Hutton, alongside Paul Velasco, the studio engineer and editor was Roy DeMonte, the executive producer was Ian Carlos, and this podcast is a co-production between Grand Prix 24-7 and W4 Podcast Studio Dubai. Don't forget, if you want to join in the conversation, leave a comment on our Instagram page at Two Soft Compounds. We love getting comments, questions, and we'll give a shout out to some of the best ones on the podcast in the next few weeks. You can also email us at twosoftcompounds at gmailcom and if you haven't done so already, please do click that follow or subscribe button. See you next time.