
Unwritten
Join us for Unwritten, where we delve into the inspiring stories of individuals who have made drastic changes to find their most authentic selves. After all, the path is still unwritten.
Unwritten
Embracing Mindfulness, Healing, and Reinvention with Dr. Mara Doughty Seals
In this heartfelt episode of Unwritten, Stephanie sits down with Dr. Mara Doughty-Seals, a former veterinarian and business owner, as she transitions into a new chapter of life. Together, they explore the profound topic of pet grief, the emotional challenges of saying goodbye to a beloved companion, and the healing process that follows. Mara shares her journey from running Hilldale Veterinary Clinic to co-owning the newly renovated Foxfire Building in Baraboo, WI, and reflects on the lessons she's learned about vulnerability, community, and embracing change. Whether you're a pet owner, animal lover, or navigating your own transformative crossroads, this episode offers insights into grief, self-care, and the importance of gratitude. Don't miss this inspiring and deeply relatable conversation!
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Hey, it's Stephanie. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Unwritten. I think something that I've been missing with all of my intros is who I am. So I'm Stephanie. I'm a photographer. I love helping women feel confident and beautiful and celebrate their selves. I'm also a soon to be author. And I am super excited because I have Dr. Mara Doughty -Seals here today. Hello. Thank you. to be here. I am so glad you're here too. We were chatting before, and what's awesome about having you on right now is that you are at a crossroads in your life, right? We'll talk about that for just a second. But what I really wanted you here was to talk about pet grief, because it's such a relevant subject for especially women who want to hold everything together. We want to hold on. We want to make sure the people around us don't feel sad and suffer. So your past life, you owned Hilldale Veterinary Clinic. Yes. For almost, well, partly, but for almost 20 years. And now you have a new venture. So talk about your new venture, because I think a lot of people have been, least in Baraboo, have been talking about the old Ploetz building. So could you just chat about that for a minute? Thanks for giving me the opportunity. Yeah, I mean, I've been a veterinarian for almost 30 years and I just hung up my hat last week and it was. I feel like I've never defined myself as being a veterinarian. think generations and usually they were men in the profession. Their identity and their profession were all in one. And my feeling was this it is my identity but it isn't my whole identity. And so as I knew that At some point I wanted to do something else or have a chance to be someone else. I started thinking, you who is that and what does she want to do? And one of my very best friends and I had become friends because we had bonded over similar life experiences and started talking a couple of years ago about what that would look like and She had always had the idea that she saw a lot of opportunity and beauty in downtown at the old Plutz building. And so when the opportunity came up, sadly, when Mrs. Plutz died, she was able to reach out to the family and make an offer on the building. And because She had done a lot for the Platt's family over the years and they knew who she was and her integrity. They sold her the building and then she very generously gave me the opportunity to come on board. And so now I get to use some of the skills I learned not as a veterinarian but running a business and having a business and creating something that is beautiful. for downtown Baraboo. And we both feel like we owe Baraboo lot because Baraboo supported us over the years. And so it's just really exciting to be able to create a space or use a different part of myself and do do things that are interesting and challenging and see who the real me or the this new chapter is going to be. And what is something that you've learned about yourself since you started this project that you maybe surprised you? That I don't know as much as I think I know. I'm always surprised at. I've always felt like I was fairly intuitive, but I've learned that I need to. Let others talk more and just listen. And I've really enjoyed meeting different people that were in the community that I know before, but making connections with them. I also, know, veterinary medicine keeps you very humble. And so this is another way to stay humble because the way I think things should go or not always the way things should go. And so I'm trying to use those challenges as opportunities to move forward. That's lovely. Well, I think it's important. You have to keep learning and keep challenging yourself, I think. Otherwise, it's too easy to get stagnant. And as you get older, it's and easier to get stagnant. So I like a challenge. Yeah. What is it like being in downtown Baraboo? Because you are kind of on the outskirts and kind of in your own little area now. So I'll tell you my experience with downtown Baraboo. do. I feel very vulnerable and very almost naked when I'm in downtown Baraboo because it's such a small Area and I feel like everybody knows everybody. Yeah, so there's no getting there's no bullshitting Yeah, like you gotta you know, you gotta have Yeah, you got to be real you got it or they're gonna see right through you. So I Yeah, that's absolutely right. I feel like So before I moved to Baraboo well When I graduated from vet school, I took an internship in Washington, DC and worked there for a year and a half in medicine and surgery. And I didn't know anybody. It was a really lonely year and a half. And so. I ended up moving back to Wisconsin and choosing towns where I thought I could practice the best medicine. And through Serendipity, I ended up here. yeah, I mean, I think it's very important to be real. And people know when you're genuine and when you're not genuine. that's something I always try and impart to my employees was You may have all the knowledge in the world in your head, but you have to care about people. You have to listen to them, and you have to care. And so I think that's really interesting that you said, people know who you are, so you better be your best self. But I feel like you probably are your best self. You are who you are. I am who I am. And as long as you do right by people, You're probably going to be OK. Yeah. It's like a family dynamic. Yeah. Downtown. So I'm excited to make more connections and see more people and talk to more people and hear stories about the Ploetz building and what they know about downtown. So that's exciting for me. Yeah. It's the talk of the town. And in a good way. Everyone's talking about how beautiful it is. Yeah. It's been a labor of love and it's nice to, it's nice to create something for ourselves. mean, Jennifer, my partner Jennifer Fox and I are, we're doing it for ourselves too, but we also want to inspire other people to be there with us and continue to develop the downtown in a way that seems right for the community. Yeah. And Okay, another off topic, but still on topic is that we talk about Bella Vita really quick and all the amazing conversations that happen. Yeah, at Bella Vita because I don't even know if I saw you last summer, but a couple summers ago, I saw you a lot you and Jennifer work. Yeah, you know, talking about life and my friend Lacey and I we we have had the best conversation sitting outside Bella Vita so It's just kudos to them, right? Well, it was funny. I mean, I tell this story. I'm sure people have heard this story. But 20 years ago, was running. She had started Wild Apples. And I was working at Hildale. And at that time, we were taking call 24-7. And so she and I would work, work, work, work, work, work, work. And then Saturday nights, we would call each other and just talk about our. our week and how we survived it. And we'd both be laying on our couches in our separate homes and kvetching and talking about what went right and what went wrong. And that's how our friendship developed. And then she had. a baby and wanted to have a lifestyle where she could spend more time with her daughter. And so she and her husband created something that they could do that. But I think, you know, she was so talented with her vision for floral design and for gifts. that I know she wanted to get back to it. And so we would park in front of the Plutz building sometimes and talk about what we wanted to do. And then, yeah, we'd meet every Friday and kind of make notes and talk it out. And so, you know, then she was much braver than I was. She was ready to make the leap. She made the leap and she had confidence that... things were gonna, the good stuff will fall into place. So I don't know if you've ever seen the, I have it on a magnet on my refrigerator leap and then that will appear. And that's what she did. And I felt that was so brave of her. so she brought me in and it's been a chance for us to work together professionally as well as supporting each other personally. And so we've it's just been, you know, it's been a blast. It's been really cool. Well, I will say that you might be giving her the kudos for being brave, but you also are being very brave by starting over. Well, it may be fear. might be fear of being. They hand in hand. You can't have one without the other. But you are. mean, Changing your career path is very brave and you're doing it, especially as a woman. I'm sure you fought very fiercely to have your business and have your position in the community as a veterinarian and you were willing to say, you know what, that's not me anymore. Let's figure out. what that is. Yeah, I mean, I loved what I what I did. So very grateful to be able to do it. So very grateful to be in people's lives. I would tell my clients that it was a privilege and it it really was because just as I felt so disconnected in Washington, DC, I felt the absolute absolute opposite of that here. People trusted me. I would see them I see their kids. their grandkids, their cousins, their friends. I always just really appreciated the connection and being there for them. And unfortunately, euthanasia or dying pets is part of it. And so I was very grateful to be able to be there for people at the end of their pet's life too. And when I messaged you about the possibility of being on my podcast, you had said that often pet grief is worse than people grief. So can you kind of talk about that a little bit? Yeah. Well. You know, the flippant answer is, well, a lot of us like our pets better than our family members. And everybody kind of laughs at that. But there is some truth to it. mean, your dog or cat observes you all the time, deeply. they pick up on our subconscious cues. in some ways, and there's a reason we call my field companion animal medicine. mean, these are companions. They're always happy to see you. They're sad when you leave. They make an effort to communicate and they understand us better maybe than we do them since they're. I don't want to say nonverbal. That's not right. If you know my dogs, you would know that there's a lot of verbosity. They're just, they're always there. You know, I talk to my dogs, I joke with my dogs, I sing to my dogs. And, you know, as much as I love my family members, you know, it's my dogs that sometimes I feel get me. And I, of course, am surrounded by family and friends who understand the love of an animal. I've had lots of clients over the years who either grew up in a family that didn't value a bond or didn't have pets. Or we're taught that that's a, know, having a pet, loving a pet is a weakness. And so I've had lots of clients over the years that didn't feel safe to express what their animal meant to them and didn't have support afterwards. And those were really heartbreaking too, because I think... I think that that's really important to be surrounded by people who get it and understand the value of having an animal that you love. something that's coming up as we're talking is that... I mean, there's different reasons pets pass away. And sometimes it's because they're really old. And I think that's got to be really hard as well, because that means we're making up the choice for our animals, pets to pass. So how do you kind of navigate that as the pet's aging? How do you navigate that conversation? Or how did you navigate that conversation? Well. You as a veterinarian you always have to meet people where they are. I was very lucky that I had been there long enough that I had been through the circle of life, so to speak, with several, with lots and lots of my clients. And so I helped them say goodbye to a beloved pet. I was there for the joy of getting the new pet and then watching the grow and age throughout its life before we had to say goodbye again. I guess actually at the end, that was one of the things that was easier at the end of my career because I'd known these people, my clients for so long. Like I knew who they were, they knew who I was, and I could be straight with them. And a lot of times really the statement is, know, I know how much you love, you know, Fluffy. You have always brought Fluffy into me. I know how much you care for Fluffy and You should know that it's okay to make a decision if you think fluffy suffering. It's okay to make a decision even though it's hard if you're having a hard time watching your pet decompensate over time. You don't have to time your euthanasia perfectly. And really the other one was, especially for women, is you don't have to feel guilty that you're making this decision. Because I know that you love her. I know that you love him. And it's okay. And so, I really wish in vet school we had had, I wish we had had a year of therapy. maybe for ourselves because then it would help us counsel clients. And I really wish we had had a year of working at Walmart because maybe the most profound thing we do is counsel people at the end of their pet's life more than any scientific knowledge we've got in our brains. Yeah, I mean, let's. Though those moments are the hardest moments. My dog, I had to put him down last, like two years ago now. Because he was really old and he stopped eating and stopped drinking and all this stuff. And it was like the hardest decision. But then after he passed and it was so calm and peaceful, it was like, OK. I know that I did made the right choice for him. It was it was actually quite beautiful. Yeah. But waking up that morning knowing I had to make the call was. Yeah, that's so interesting that you say that there's almost some relief that happens after they're gone. Because the lead up to it is just so awful. And so painful. And so that's another thing I really try and tell clients is that If you feel better after that's okay. You don't have to feel guilty that you're not, you're not suffering. That's all good. It doesn't mean that you didn't make the right decision. It probably means that you did make the right decision. And you know, after that moment happens, do you? People do different things, but what are some of the more healthy decisions that someone can make after their pet passes? you have any? I'm sure you've seen a lot, so any? Well, I think you just have to first feel what you're going to feel. And however long you feel it is fine, because nobody would criticize you for grieving the loss of a parent for 18 months, mean, and yet we think that we can feel better in two weeks after, you know, we love our beloved dog or cat. So I think one is you just you have to say, OK, I know this is happening. I have to feel it. have to express that I have to validate it. should be if I can. I should try to be around people who can support me. And then a lot of times people have another pet. And so then they say, well, what do I do with the other pet? And I think it's really good for both you and the other pet to spend time together. And if it's a dog, go for a walk. If it's a cat, make sure you have some play times or extra play times to keep them occupied. Me personally, I had had two dogs. This was before I was married and I was on call all the time and my dogs were my life and so I was spending, actually and the dogs came to work with me so all we knew was home and work, home and work, home and work and then they got sick one after the other and died over the course of three years so I watched them get sick, nursed them through their illness and then died and so then I was alone in my house. and I didn't want to be in my house. And I didn't want to be at work. And so I ended up joining the gym. was my coping mechanism. I just happened to choose a healthy one. But really, it could have looked like doing more walking, meditating, reading a good book. I read all the Harry Potter books. And then I watched the movies. I watched Game of Thrones. So I did, you know, I did some stuff just to keep my brain occupied. And I think that's okay, too. I think that's okay. And then I tried to do good things, you know, like I, my dogs had fleece jackets. And so I washed them all and I took them all to the shelter because I thought there'd probably be a dog there that, had short fur that might be cold and maybe it's a new owner, it could go home with some fleece jackets. you know, I kind of did those things where I could improve another animal's life. Those would be my suggestion. Yeah, I love all that. And I think so I spend, I spend more time at the dog park talking to people with dogs than I do anyplace else these days. And Something that we sometimes talk about is that doing the things we can't do because we have an elderly dog. So there's a couple down there, and they're excited to go kayaking again or biking. There is things we can't do, especially as our pets age, because we have to take care of them. Right. That's a great point. And those people should. Absolutely not feel guilty That they can enjoy these things again I mean I really think you know most of us who have pets and know how much our pets adore us They would want us to be happy That's so true. You know yeah I Think that's wonderful. Yeah, I think that's wonderful as a matter of fact. I did not want Another dog I was so broken by losing my dogs. It wasn't until I got married we'd been married for a year or two and my husband said, I really want a dog. I said, I don't want a dog. The dog's gonna, you're gonna love the dog more than me. I can't do it again. Can't do it again. And, but he's a good husband. said, so he said, okay, so we got a dog. And of course, now, I can't imagine my life without this dog. Yeah, so and it's different. Because now I have a, you know, a loving partner that I don't have to go through it alone. So that was something that I thought of too, that was different. well, yes, I'm gonna lose this dog and it's gonna break me, but. I rely on the people around me to help me and that'll be okay. And I really do hope, I really do hope everybody has someone out there that they can rely on or talk to. Yeah, and a lot of times people that have pets, don't. You know, through trauma, abuse, they only feel safe with their pets. So it's a challenging space that you were in. How do I want to kind of go back into self care a little bit. So after a particularly bad day at the clinic, is it kind of similar to what you would do? know, if you had kind of a heartbreaking case, would you go home and kind of do the same thing and go to the gym? Yes. Open a book. Yeah. What I do now is I sit on the floor and I play ball with my dogs. That's they want to have that interaction with me. I want to have that interaction with them. I need to get out of my headspace. Whatever you can do, most people know what's good for them and what they think they can accomplish. So mean, honestly, if it's sitting and meditating for 10 minutes or doing breath work, if it's watching going through your Instagram feed for a while just to give yourself mind candy. If it's sitting on the floor and playing with your dog and I like to put music on and have music playing and sing along to the music. doesn't have to be really extravagant. So it's just kind of giving yourself permission to be okay. Yeah. And I think that goes back to the guilt, you know. We don't want to feel OK. We feel bad. But there are those little cracks, I guess, in that grief that we can take that breath and let the light in a little bit and embrace the now. Yeah, that's beautiful. One thing that I'm trying to do is be more mindful. And so I'm trying to either zoom in at the moment. just so I can appreciate the moment or zoom out. If something's happening that I'm not super happy about, I just have to see the big picture. And can I just say something about men and grief as long as we're talking about? It's a podcast. You can talk about whatever you want. OK. This is maybe one of the areas in our culture and life where You know, men are not taught to be okay with showing grief. And I really feel for, you know, well, for anybody that thinks they can't show grief. not that they have to, they don't owe it to me to show me grief in the exam room. That's not what I mean. I mean, I really am touched or or I really feel for people who can't express to me or themselves or their family members what they're feeling and how sad they are. And I've had male clients, know, sometimes they get angry. And I know they're not angry at me, they're angry at the situation. Or one time it haunts me, I had a father and son and that it was a kitty who needed to be put to sleep and the father was acting like it wasn't a big deal and his seven year old son was sitting there watching every word and man, I just thought, I wish you could teach your son something different than what you're showing him. I do have to say that it is better like the I really enjoy my younger clients because they are more willing and able to express their emotions. But that was always something that was very sad to me is not being feeling like they could express what they were feeling. Or that it comes out as anger. Which isn't super healthy. No, Do you have any suggestions, because the majority of my listeners are women, to help their people around them? Well, I think it all just, comes from us. Learning to be vulnerable and express what you're feeling and letting your partner know that it's okay to express what they're feeling. You know, I have to struggle with, if I'm willing to talk about something and my husband isn't, it doesn't mean that he doesn't wanna talk about something, it just. means that maybe he doesn't want to talk about it right at this moment when I think it's really, really important. Showing your own vulnerability a lot of times opens up other people. That's really good. And that's true. It's ending the cycle. I mean, there's a couple different things that are coming to mind, but it's being the light. It's showing it's okay. And that there's no right or wrong answer when it comes to grief. And I think that's probably the biggest part is we don't know what we're going to feel the next day or the next day. So we just think we're always going to feel this immense sadness and Grief isn't like that. You're going to feel a loss for a very long time, if not forever. But new things come in, right? With every new Right. Yeah, that's beautiful. It's OK to feel better too. Right. Yeah. Do the things that make you feel good, right? Like you were talking about. You don't have to feel bad just because you feel bad, if that makes sense. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And. So from my experience with my dog, and I was going to take a year off before I got another dog because I was going to travel and do all these amazing things. I gave it, I think I gave it about four or five months. And I was just like, you know what? I miss having a dog. Yeah, you were ready. I was ready. And. Because I had done rescues for so long, was like, I'm going to actually get a dog, a puppy from a breeder, a reputable breeder. But I felt so guilty for getting this purebred puppy. And I felt like I was. Yeah, like that I was doing something wrong. And I think it's funny because we were just talking about that. Like there's no wrong. Right. You just. I mean, you know, the puppy was going to be born anyway. You know, people. Paid breeders to let dogs have sex, so. I think it's OK, and I. I think if we honestly had any control over. you know, the world, the last I checked, nobody put me in charge. know, I think if it's I've and I've done both, I think if it speaks to you, I think if you feel strongly about this time, you want to get a rescue, then then that's great. And, you know, if you wanted, if you want to get a purebred puppy, then get a purebred puppy. It's okay. whatever. Yeah, it's okay. And then, you know, give money to a shelter. There's so much gray in the world, and I really sometimes get upset about black and white, because very few things are black and white. Yeah. And I think if I would have just given myself permission to just do the thing that I wanted to do, then. And that's so much energy wasted. You took in a baby animal and you gave it a supportive, loving home. And where's your dog now? He's at the dog park. Yeah. Getting exercise and socialization. Yeah. Shame on you. What an awful thing you did. I had to work through that, those feelings, you know, and even the first few times I would introduce my dog, it's like, my last But I just that story comes out because I felt so guilty for wanting something that I could train myself and Didn't have all the baggage, you know, I last saw I had a ton of baggage. Well, that's I mean, that's a whole nother know it's a whole nother podcast, you know, there's these dogs are One of my one of my best former employees She had lost her beloved dog, 14-year-old dog, best mom, took best care of it, took some time to grieve, went and got a dog from the South that was in a shelter that was hit by a tornado. They shipped it up here, she rescued it, and the dog is terrified of everything. Understandably, you know, if you're in a building that got hit by a tornado and you didn't know what was going on and. But. And I mean, you have to ask yourself, it's. She's the she's a lovely person who's going to give this dog the best life it can possibly have. But is this dog going to have the best life because of what happened to it? I don't know. So I think if you have a nice, healthy young puppy and you can give it. good home and lots of exercise and lots of love and play. I think that's a win. Yeah. And one more thing, let's just talk real quick about we just touched on that for a second. Is that the quality of life that we give our pets shouldn't affect the quality of life we give ourselves. And I think that's like a really tricky thing with rescues and elderly dogs. Dogs that have cancer or all the cats too, right? But when it affects our own well-being and we become like this martyr and we sacrifice our own needs for, I guess not even pets, but people. Like there has to, we have to understand that there's a line that we need to give ourselves oxygen, the oxygen mask first. Yeah. That's, I often, if I'm within one of my own, one of my former employees, something happens and the owner makes a decision that is counter to what is in the animal's best interest. A lot of times I think to myself, well, they're not taking care of themselves either. A lot times you can look at people who don't take care of themselves and know that they're not taking care of themselves. So why would we ask them to take care of a pet because they don't have the skillset to be good to themselves? Yeah, so yeah, I think you're absolutely right. think, you know, if as you work on being a happier, healthier person, you're probably going to end up being a, you know, having a happier, healthier pet. Yeah. You're making me really happy that when I was a kid, I wanted to be a veterinarian. And I think it would be, it's got to be such a hard job because of that situation where you see it all. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. That's one reason why I retired. mean, as much as I loved being there, it's really hard on the vet, too. I mean, for a long time, I would never cry during euthanasias because I didn't want the owner to feel bad for me or take their focus off of their beloved pet. And then, I don't know, at some point I just started crying during Ethanaceous and I said, I don't know how good this is for me. I do think having a community like the community that I have at the dog park, you know, we, we not only share stories about our past, but we share our life, you know? That community support is so important, you know when you're going through all kinds of grief so even though you're here talking about pet grief like grief is just a normal a normal emotion and I guess at the end of the day we we get to decide how we we work through that but As long as we're working through it, that's the yeah, if you don't have your pet your anchor, of course, that's harder. Yeah, and then you lose, know, For instance at the dog park again too, it's you know, when your pet passes you lose your friends, but you can still go there, can still donate to the shelter, you can still do all the things. Yeah, I mean we used to love when our clients would bring us blankets and things and dog beds they didn't need or want anymore. you know, we would launder them and then Fluffy would have, you know, we put the bed cat and the cat was recovering from surgery and a big comfy bed. those things were really nice. Yeah. is there anything else you want to kind of add to our conversation about pets and grief and taking care of ourselves? I would just say that most of our clients after we had been through something You know, we would send people a sympathy card and we'd always make a donation We either make a donation to plant a tree Or we'd make a donation to a companion animal fund and The staff we all really appreciated people would write us the most beautiful Thank you notes and send pictures. And actually, it's really interesting that you said that because I am unpacking my office this week and I've kept every single thank you note and card that I ever got for a client in 30 years. And so it's been wonderful to go through those and think about it. yeah, I would just and sometimes that can be helpful with grief too is like thanking. Thanking the people that helped you. So we always appreciated the heartfelt letters and thoughts for us because yeah, it's hard. hard on my stuff. It's hard. So. It's that gratitude again. We haven't even talked about gratitude. But gratitude can help get you out of grief. Zooming in on those moments that brought you happiness. Yeah. And that's another thing, too, is just focus on the things that do make you happy. Yeah, like I like petting dogs' I know, Jake, I wasn't even aware I was doing it, but you were right there. And it's very relaxing for me. Yeah, he's got a big noggin. All right. Well, thank you so much, Mara, for spending time with me today. So how can people follow along with the Ploetz? And it's not even called that anymore. So what is it called? Well, so we renamed it the Foxfire building, the Foxfire of Baraboo after Jennifer Fox. And Foxfire is kind of a luminescent green. It's a moss that grows in the forest. OK, cool. it sometimes at night. And so we painted the building the color of Foxfire and we like the serenity of the earth and grass. So that's kind how we came up with that. So if you want to follow us, we have a webpage. It's the Foxfire building. We're on Instagram, Foxfire building. February 1st, Jennifer Fox is opening a new floral studio and gift boutique. called River. And we're having she's having her grand opening and we're having an artisan's market. We're calling it love fast. On February 1 from 10 to four, there's music, gifts to buy for your loved ones come in, see the building. We're happy to give you a tour so you can see what we've been working on and our ideas. And we'd really love seeing everybody if they have time. Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much. Thanks, Doc. Appreciate it.