Dineo Dowd on Women's Empowerment, Hiking, and Living Authentically

What happens when women stop waiting for permission and just get outside?

In this episode, I sit down with Dineo Dowd—hiker, author, and women's empowerment guide—to talk about finding freedom on the trail, building sisterhood in nature, and why showing up for yourself doesn't have to be that serious.

From growing up in South Africa where she wasn't allowed in national parks to leading life-changing hiking trips for women around the world, Dineo's story will inspire you to take that first step—literally and figuratively.

This one's for every woman who's been waiting to feel "ready." Spoiler: you already are.

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Hosted by Stephanie Shanks—photographer, storyteller, and advocate for women over 40 who are ready to celebrate themselves unapologetically.

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Transcript

0:38

Hey, it's Stephanie. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Unwritten with Steph. I'm super excited because I have Deanie here with me today. Deanie and I met because she is an awesome women's empowerment hiker. And one of my friends was like, you need to follow Deanie and you need to go on some of her hikes. I don't know if you guys know me, but I'm super introverted. And it was one of the scariest things I did was show up. which is so silly now because they're so fun. I was so nervous. So thank you for being here. And could you please tell my listeners a little bit about yourself and what you do and we'll take it from there. I am Dini, my full name Dineo Daut. I was born and raised in South Africa. So first time I came to the U.S. I landed in Virginia. and immediately knew it that there was nothing there for me because I came from around mountains. So within three months, I went to Utah and the mountains were just right there waiting for me to get outside and explore. And I think by then I've always wanted to get outside and go out into nature and explore. But then... I grew up in South Africa in the era whereby black people were actually not allowed to go into the national parks or anywhere to those nice places. And there's a memory that sticks with me when I was growing up. It was Christmas and we were at a lodge and we were just having a picnic with my family. And then I just asked them, said, why don't we get to go on a road trip and have bikes on our... SUVs and everything. Like I thought this lifestyle, like, you know, they're doing all these cool things. They looked cool and everything, right? And my family, they were like, we don't do that. Black people don't do that. So that has really stuck with me since I was like a child. And I have always just been curious, like, what does it feel like to put a backpack and go out in nature? And you said something that you were nervous to show up to strangers. But I was actually, I feel like it was a calling because my first hike had happened and I was alone. I just wanted to go. once I, when I lived in Utah and I had that opportunity to get outside, I was like, I'm not gonna wait for anybody. I didn't have any friends. I think I landed in Utah. Three days later, I was hiking out by myself and I remember getting home and I was like, man, I can just get outside. and go hike and do what I've always wanted to do. It took 25 years, but I wasn't going to slow down. So that's where my journey started when I was 25 years old. in Utah. I mean, Utah is amazing. It's a beautiful yeah, yeah, I don't understand people who go to Utah and just stay in the house because it took me three days to become this person I am today. I literally just went out there. I didn't even think about hiking shoes, hiking clothes, and which is the struggle nowadays. Yeah, So for me, who felt like we were not allowed and black people were not doing this, taking that first hike in Utah, I felt the freedom. Like I was like, there's no going back from here. I can actually go and do all these white people things that everybody's talking about and nobody's going to stop me. So for me, it was actually freedom. That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that story. Yeah. How did you end up in Wisconsin? Because, I mean, we just have bluffs. We don't have the mountains. Who talked you into that? So my husband is actually from Wisconsin. Yes, he was born and raised here and we met in Utah and I remember the first Christmas coming to Wisconsin. I said, please do not make me move here. I hate it here. It's old. It's ugly here. There's just cornfield. I just don't like it. I hate it here. I said, do not make me move here. And little did I know that he was going to propose after Christmas. But then we end up coming back to Utah because of his parents. Two parents, they were alive and healthy. I loved them like they were my parents. so it was kind of like a decision that we made once they were getting older. Like, let's go back home and we have one child. I get along with your family and start all over. so because we were... We were extremely busy in Utah hiking every single day. It wasn't a big deal for me to move to another state, but then here, moving to Wisconsin was like actually giving me a chance to have a family. Something that I've never had in Utah, it was just me and my husband and my daughter. She was born in Utah. And so I really took that chance. And I remember coming here, we came here in the middle of winter. We came here in January. And I was like, okay, when I came compared to when I came here, when we were like talking and just dating, when I decided that I wanna come here, I was ready. I was ready for a new adventure. I was like, there's gotta be something beside drinking beer and eating cheese. There's gotta be something different, you know? And that was my challenge right there. And I was looking forward to it. Like I gave it a shot, was like, we're gonna go. see your family. We're gonna start all over. in Wisconsin. I love Wisconsin. It's my second home. I love how slow it is here. I love everything. It is very slow here compared to big cities. I just love everything about Wisconsin. And I have found, you know, good friends here who are family. And my child goes to school here. Like it is my second home. Yeah, and we love you. I thank you. Like you said, I feel like I am welcomed here in Utah, in Wisconsin. So I am taking advantage of the outdoors and I'm taking advantage of my time while I'm still here because it's not going to be forever. I want to make connections with everybody. I just want to get out there and enjoy it. Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about how you transition from, you know, being a mom and hiking with the mom, the baby group that you were in. And I know you're a travel writer. You've written children's books. how did you make the transition from just hiking with your baby to now this brand and women's empowerment hikes and traveling around the world with women I think it just being a when you become a parent, lot of things will change in your life, right? Like when I became a parent in Utah, I didn't I did have friends by the time I became a mom. But all those friends as soon as I had a baby, they all disappeared. Right. I had to start all over getting outside with other moms making friends. And so There has just always been something at the back of my brain. Women always need support because while we were hiking as moms with kids, we will get a random lady who will be like, I love hiking. I'm going to join you. And you hear the story how she just needs a tribe. She is just looking for people who want to get outside and enjoy the outdoors and looking for better conversations. And so. Since that transition being a mom, I have always just made sure that I have people, the tribe, right? I was able to stay in touch with people that we were hiking moms with. And then we watched each other. I mean, I only have one kid. Some of the people that I met when I became a mom, they have four five kids by now, right? Things changes, life changes, people get divorces, people move around and, you know, they move on with their lives. But then What I have noticed or have learned with was like I was already living a lifestyle that was actually making me happy. And this lifestyle was actually costing me nothing. So once my child was ready to go to school, it wasn't difficult to be like, okay, what am I doing now? You know, I was grieving that adventure of just like getting up in the morning and go and hike devil's lake at. 530 a.m. Just to see the sunrise with other people so it was more mental health and also just Trying to reach out to that person like hey, do you want to go and hike? This morning, which it's what it sounds stupid. Okay, you want to get up? Drive one hour to go and hike at 5 a.m. In this cold and everything but then once you have a tribe and you have built that lifestyle It's just you can't say no to things like that Like that was what was making me happy, you know, and also just going and planning these random hikes and, know, someone joins in and then you listen to them. I always learn something new from, you know, these weekly hikes and it's like, how, do you stop something like that? Yeah, I mean, everything you're saying, I'm just like, yes, yes, yes. because it wasn't until I actually went on those hikes with you, I've been on two now, but I didn't realize how much I was missing out of my life by just going out on a hike by myself. Hmm. Because I actually honestly really feel like the women that are part of your group are my people. Thank you. so nice. Everyone is so nice. And everyone appreciates, everyone's just in the moment appreciating, we appreciate the same things. I didn't, so I'm super grateful for you. And I'm just excited to go on more. I know you had one this morning that I couldn't make two, but you know. yeah. And you know what, that was the thing, like when we started doing these weekly hikes, like I will hear people saying they're taking a day off. And I'm like, no, you don't have to take a day off. Like literally we're just walking for two hours. I mean, we can walk two hours and we walked seven miles, right? But then hearing that someone wants to take a day off, I'm like, no, do not use your PTO on me, you know? And you know, so what I was trying to say is, We get outside on a daily basis, but then you don't have to make this special trip just to come on a hike with us. I was just trying to say, why don't you get outside during your tea break? Take lunch and get outside. But then I found out that actually these women, wanted to come outside because they were craving the adventure. They just wanted to. like do simple things like that. They just come outside of the house and walk two miles and feel like they have done something big, you know. So it became like, okay, this is serious. And I was like, it's not that serious, you And I'll get people apologizing that they can't make it out. And I'm like, no, you don't have to apologize. Like this is my lifestyle. Like I still have to walk a dog twice. Like this is nothing, you know. But then that's when I realized the impact that people are taking these hikes too serious, you know? And for me, it was just kinda like, hey, who wants to work with me? But it is making a huge impact, I'll tell you, because now these hikes are more about talking about international hikes. Like, I'll get someone, people message me and be like, hey, I think you guys hike fast. I'm like, how do you know? You've never even met me. And she's like, well, I see you guys are in good shape. And I'm like. Well, it's not about that, you know. So people underestimate what their bodies can do. But then I'm always like, just get outside. Just come and hang out with us. It's really not about what you look like, where you come from. It's not about that, you know. So it's not that serious. I always say that it's not that serious. Just come outside and then we can figure everything out later. Yeah, I mean I was worried about that too. I'm a worrier in general. Yeah, but then you end up being the one actually telling us where to go. So did you notice I planned this and then I said, well, this is what we were doing. And we actually had another plan that you were doing. And then you were like, no, this is how you're supposed to go. So you see how it's not serious. Yeah. and I love that it's just, yeah, whoever can show up can show up and. if you know the way you're showing us the way like seriously, that's what it is. And then we just liked. Yeah, and the second one, you know, the second one I went to the wrong place, but I still found you guys. And yeah, it's so not serious at all, but it's so healthy. it is worth it. And that is why now I'm starting to feel bad when people message me and tell me that, I got a PTO in the next two weeks. Where are you hiking? I'm like, oh my gosh. OK, now we have to make this official, you know? I mean, it just says a lot about what your hikes are doing. And I understand from your point of view, you're just like, I'm just throwing this out there. But to the response, people really are, women are really appreciating it and getting so much from it. And why not? Like if you have to take a paid time off day for a doctor's appointment, might as well take it off for a hike. why not? Yeah, definitely these hikes for me, they are helping. mean, yesterday we had a cloudy day and literally I was like, my gosh, my day sucks. Like, and it was the other thing, like people things that I'm always up and going all the time, but I'm just a regular person. Like literally I am, I get season depression. I go to bed at five o'clock. I go to bed at five and people laugh at me I'm like, I I'm serious. I get that depressed. So Once I get up, it's like, wanna go. But there are days where I don't even wanna do anything. And I'll get a text message, someone is like, hey, do you wanna hike? I'm like, yeah, probably, yeah. Why would I say no? So I always have to push myself to, and it's just part of life, it is what it is. what about, you know, the days that people aren't calling and there are no hikes and you are feeling, you know, super down. What are some of the things you do that... when you recognize it that help you Right, I mean it happens a lot like seriously yesterday it was awful. It was awful that when I had to go and drop off my daughter for basketball and then I figure out that we were 30 minutes early and she's like let's go to quick trip. I'm like no I'm not going out like this because I was not dressed to go out. I was dropping off not going to walk a quick trip right like nothing was matching with anything right. So because it was one of those days that I was just at home and not planning to go anywhere else and do anything. But I love writing. I love writing. So I'm the kind of a person who likes to write my thoughts out. And sometimes I think out loud, you know, like I'll come up with like ideas of like, where are we going next summer? And then I'll open my computer and start kind of like looking at things. So, I spend a lot of time with writing. Like I have a lot of diaries. I'm writing on my notes. I'm always writing everywhere and I always have books everywhere. I have books in my car. I have books in my table and literally I will pick up a book and just read it one of those days where I'm just like not feeling. I'm not a big person when it comes to TV. I don't like TV. I don't like that kind of a noise. So I write a lot and once I write, my brain will just like actually click like, oh, maybe I need to do this. Yeah, I'm actually a big writer. I journal every morning and I'm always I'll say things out loud, like especially with content, because I'm like kind of deep into creating content. Different seasons of the year, I create content and this is one of them. So I'm like, what if I did this? And then it's, you know, I'm sure, I don't know. I talk a lot to myself and then write notes. It's okay. it's not bad. Yeah, I really love self care. Sometimes I will go and do the red light at the gym. As much as it feels good to stay at home, I can't stay at home that much. The other thing I think that really happened to me was having a dog. My dog is really awesome to me, so there's part of me that feels really bad. when I don't take her out on a walk. So I really feel bad. I'm like, okay, this is just not okay that the dog is just sitting here, having gone on a walk. So you see those walks, they also help me. Like we both need each other. We both need each other. And sometimes I'll be driving back home at six o'clock, it's late. I'm like, these people are walking outside and it's only six o'clock, right? I'm ready to go to bed and all that. And then I'll come home and put a big jacket and just walk down the street. And literally I'll come back. My brain is just full of, you know, ideas and thoughts and everything. So getting outside, it's always like an answer for me. Yeah, I mean, you're speaking my language. I'm glad we're doing this. This is great. I feel like we're a lot alike. did you think you were crazy when you were doing all these things? Yeah, because I don't because I don't know a lot of women that do what what you do and because what you do is what I do. Like in the morning I get up, I journal. But the first thing I do is take the dog out for a walk. And I, A, he has to go out. But B, I know that that walk. is when my coffee's brewing and I'm getting my, know, especially when it's cold or the stars are still out and I'm just, I just feel like I'm the luckiest person in the world. And I get to walk my dog, you know, and it's, I feel like I'm, it's just beautiful. Yeah, I like to romanticize my life too. Like I will make cup of coffee and put cinnamon now. And I'm like, man, this is like the best coffee I've ever had, you know? And it's like a small thing. So, okay, just drinking your coffee with cinnamon. Okay. It's like it lights up my day and I feel like, man, this is the best life. Just having coffee with cinnamon. I'm like, it's small things that really you know, impact us, but I just love simple things like that. Yeah, and it's all mindset. It's all getting out of our own heads. You know, our brains. I know for me, it's because I do have anxiety and I do have seasonal depression. It really is like, and journaling helps because journaling, I'll write out stuff and then it's like, is that even true? Or is that my, is that my stinking brain fighting me again? And it's constant, it's constant. my gosh. You said something about anxiety. I used to struggle with anxiety, but I didn't know it was anxiety until like COVID era. Like, so there was a time like I wanted to, I used to take my daughter to groceries and buy groceries, pick things up, right? I don't now. I don't take my child to the mall. I don't take my child to buy groceries with me. I don't think that's a place for child. Like I, that's, I don't want her in. You know that it's too busy. There's too many things. There's too many crazy people out here, right? But my anxiety during COVID thinking about going outside I will just start crying for no reason. Like that's how heavy it was. That's how heavy it was. And I remember when I talked to my doctor, she was like, I'm going to give you some medication. And for someone who doesn't do medication or have any health issues. I was like, oh, okay, I will try it and everything. And then the first time I tried anxiety pill, I was up on the mountain in Kilimanjaro. I took this anxiety pill that I've never seen in my life or even like, and I was freaking out on the summit night. was freaking out, freaking out where like, I just didn't know what was happening to me. And it was a lot of things. mean, this was altitude was sleeping at 18,000 feet elevation. It's cold, it's 11. PM, they're waking us up, right? So there was a lot of things that were happening and I thought this is the day I'm gonna take this anxiety pill that I've been, you know, holding on to for six months. I took that anxiety pill and I slept all the way while I was summiting. That was my summit. It was awful. I don't remember how I made it on top of Kilimanjaro. guess my body was standing because I was strong enough. But that anxiety pill freaked me out. That was the first time and the last time I said, I don't want to see this. I flushed all that medication when I got home. I said, I will never take anxiety pill. Like if I have to go and run in the middle of the night, I will do that. My anxiety was really, really bad. And then I came home and I started running, you know, like if I'm feeling like reckless and everything, I will start running and I actually. you know, edit more things on like things that I can do that makes me happy. And I don't feel like that anymore. I don't feel like that. That anxiety is gone. I have never touched that pill, you know, like I just don't feel like messing around with pills anymore because that feeling was awful. Yeah, you know, I think that I know for me, I would do like one, I used to do like one thing, okay, I'm having anxiety, I'll go for a walk. And then it's like, oh, I still have anxiety, I'll go for a hike, I still have anxiety. And I thought I was doing something wrong. And it's just like, no, sometimes you just need to keep doing all the things and get it through your body, know, meditation, taking a bath, going for a hike. And it's like, I have to be okay with knowing I might need a whole list of things that will get me through. It's not just one thing. get bored easily because that's my problem Like I always have to have something else to do, you know So once I climbed that mountain and I was sleeping and everything I was like I'm gonna go for the second time and see what's gonna happen Right and at the second time I did yoga. I brought a book I took naps like I was more zen than ever like I was so zen and I came back and I told everybody I said climbing Kilimanjaro this time around was just like walking in a park and people were like, are you stupid? Like it's crazy that you did this for the second time. But then because I knew what was actually causing my anxiety because I didn't know like what was really causing my anxiety. I'm like, what is happening? know, and it had feeling, I swear I remember I couldn't even explain it to my doctor. And the easy way for her was just like, me a pill that. actually didn't work and just ruined my summit night. And so I think now that I was able to figure out what is really causing my anxiety, you know, my life is just so much better. And I just try to do things that makes me happy and more positive things. And I think mostly was just like being around people that really inspire me to do, you know, better and, you know, being around people that just like, Zen, you know? And I think sometimes you feel like you have to be a friend with everybody else, but then I'm the kind of person, like, if you're coming with like the bad energy and everything, I can't take it. Like, it's just ruining my day. I understand, like we go, but it's just, it's not good for me. So I try to surround myself with people that actually makes me feel good. Yeah, I'm the same way. Fair, mean, exactly. You think for me, especially lately, I've been really understanding the difference between chasing or amplifying, right? So I want to be around people that amplify the good feelings. I want to do the things that amplify love and my heart space. And chasing is like, tomorrow I have to do this, tomorrow I have to do this or whatever. And it's so like exterior, but if I can just bring it all back into like right here, it's like, you know, like you just feel it and you feel better and it helps me. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I agree. I agree. If you meet someone whereby you want to get home and apply all these things that you've learned or you want to open your computer and research something, then you know you are in the right path. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're excited and life is good. exactly. so imagine every time you go out hiking, you're meeting a brand new person who is teaching you something new and you know, you you will feel good every day, every time. well let's talk about Safety on the trails. Have you ever had any problems on the trails? Oh, so when my first hike, when I went to Utah, I actually went to people who were like so nice. They were like, where were you hiking to? And I had no idea where I was hiking to. Literally, I was just following the sun. And my goal was like, I shouldn't go as far as like where I can see where I came from. But I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't have any map. I was wearing leather shoes and everything. But everybody that I will run into, they'll just be like, hey, how's it going? I have never. And then one incident that happened was when we were out with high-kid baby moms and we had our kids, there was a moose on a trail, huge, in Utah. That's very common, right? And my heart dropped. I was like, this is the day we're going to break the news. Yeah. They're gonna hear about a black woman in Utah carrying a baby was attacked by the moose and died. Like I was very scared and the ladies they were like, just stay. Like I'm telling you, that was the scariest moment ever. But then rather than that, haven't had a, yeah, I haven't. Like I will be lying. I will be lying if I sit here. The same thing when I came here to Wisconsin, like I was warned like, don't go up north. Don't do that. Don't, you know, I own a property right now up north and I am very welcome to there. So yeah, if I had any issue. I have experienced anything you will learn about it on my Instagram. So I'm not gonna sit here and you know light No, I have never had any issues even just there was two years ago. I actually Went on a fall adventure by myself. I drove around Lake Michigan and Yeah I did that trip during fall and I was really seeking like something new. know, my husband doesn't work during the week so he came home on Monday and I said, tomorrow I'm doing a trip, I'm going, you know. And I just left and I was hiking everywhere I wanted to hike. There was, it was fall so most of the people, most of the trails were actually empty. And I just went wherever I wanted to go and I'll book a hotel and stay wherever I wanted to go. had no problem and made it safe home. So I don't know, is it luck or I mean, I know people who are always just saying things about hiking here in Wisconsin, but I haven't had any issues. Yeah, the closest thing I've had happen is trees falling, big branches falling. Yeah, twice now. Yeah, one I witnessed, one huge branch fell right behind me when I was hiking, kind of over by WeWare at Stanky. And then just a few weeks ago, I was at Devil's Lake and a tree had fallen. Oh. I right on the trail and um there was a woman that was injured, not badly, like the top of the tree hit her, so she was just all scraped up from top to bottom. But, mm-hmm, yeah, it happens. But... my gosh, that is scary. I know because you think, you think, I have to have, I should have pepper spray. I should have this, I should have that. And now it's like, I need band-aids. Not that a band-aid is gonna fix a tree falling on you, but like, get out there and you realize like, I do need specific things just in case. Right. Yeah, I do have a small fast-aid kit that I haven't been able to use, but yeah, my adventures are always like running into a rattlesnake at Devil's Lake. know, like seriously, I haven't had any bad experience of someone trying to do something bad to me. Never. me neither. And I'm grateful for that. I think it's just luck because I know some women that I've hiked with and they have told me stories of what happened around here in Wisconsin and everything. But then, I don't know. I don't go to places where I feel like, you know, my, I feel, if I feel like, this might be sketchy. I'm not going there, you know? yeah, for sure. do that. I don't do that at all. So I just feel like it has to do with luck and I've been lucky so far and I'm so grateful. I haven't had any bad experiences. I have been hiking, you know. Yeah, I only run into snakes. Yeah, what do you carry in your bag other than so you have your first your little first aid kit? What else do you carry? my gosh, what do I carry in there? I usually just have a raincoat. yeah, and I usually carry three liters of water or two liters. But yeah, I don't snack much. I don't like eating and hiking. So I usually have just my small fast aid kit, my raincoat, and I do have a rope. I have a tape because I've seen people losing their, you know. souls on while hiking and we had to save someone else's boots when we were in glacier with a tape. So I learned a lot that you always have to have a tape in your backpack. Yeah, so I don't carry too much stuff and then if I am training for something, definitely I will fill up my backpack with anything. If I have to put dumbbells in my backpack, I'll do that and carry like 40 pounds if I'm training for something. is, what's your favorite place to hike in Wisconsin? I love going to Devil's Lake because I am the type of a person who feels like when I go hiking I have to get my heart rate at a certain number. we can do, you know, we can do other hikes and if I feel like I have been walking for two hours and I don't feel different, then it's a problem. So I love Devil's Lake just because... The views, it always looks different for season. It's close enough for me to go up there. So it has to be my favorite place to hike. Yeah. And I have, I have been there all season. So I love all seasons, but I am not affected by the crowd because I don't hike on the weekends. I usually go on the weekdays early in the morning. You know, I just like to find peace in nature. don't like too many people. Yeah, I mean, that's spoken like a true hiker. Yeah, I'm like if we have to get that 10 o'clock and we have to wait on the line. I'm not going. Yeah, it's too much for me. I agree. I live right next to Pee-Wit's Nest. I don't know if you know where that's at. It's just a little tiny hiking trail, but I just like to get my dog out there. You know, it's like a half a mile away. And, but even that when it gets too busy, it's like, it's cute. It's really cute to see all the little kids in the water. And I love it, but it's so nice when it's quiet and you just feel like you're, have this beautiful space to yourself. Yeah, yeah, I really like going on a hike and just feel the solitude and just enjoying nature and be able to hear other people when they speak and just really enjoy it, you know. But if you're telling me that we're meeting at Devil's Lake at 12 o'clock on Sunday, no, I'm not doing that. Yeah. No, I'll rake the leaves outside. Which, I mean, that does have to get done. I'd rather rig the leaves outside. That's just not fun for me at all. Yeah, yeah. So I kind of want to talk to you about your book writing process. And this is Shifting Gears. I actually wrote a book. It's kind of like a memoir about my life because I was a really young mom and I had special needs twins when I was 16 that I raised. But I'm so afraid of putting it out there and being. You know, like it's like personal, right? Books are personal. Our stories are personal. So can we kind of talk about the blocks or anything that you've gone through in order to, you know, write 10 children's books? I mean, that's like, that's amazing. Yeah, thank you. mean, like if you are scared to put your book out there, can we put it under someone else's name? Because I want to read that book. I really want to read that book. Yeah, no, no, we can we can create another name. OK, I think we need to create another name and get this book published as soon as possible. Cause now you you got my attention. I'm like, oh, what was that like, right? Yeah. But I have self-published and I write children's books because when I started hiking after I became a mom, we couldn't find any books that were related to our lifestyle. Like I went to Bunsen Novels, I tried to talk to them. I said, hey, I'm looking for hiking books and everything. You couldn't find a book about hiking in 2015. That's when my daughter was born. And when we moved to Wisconsin, I remember I put out a post that, we just moved here from Utah and we are looking to hang out with people that wants to go out and hike and everything. And our first hike, guess it was at Parfris Land. That was like my first official hike coming to Wisconsin, right? Never even driven to Baraboo or anything. And then we get to Parfris Land and there is about six months with their kids. excited about this waterfall that we're gonna see. So from someone who's coming from Utah used to real waterfalls. I was like, they said it's like a tiny waterfall, but then I was really excited to just like to get outside and see people. Cause this was like our first official summer hike too. And so once we got there, it turned out amazing. Like I forgot my, that, you know, this is not even like a real waterfall. compared to what I have seen, you know? But then it was just about how amazing it was meeting other moms that came to Wisconsin with their spouses, same way like us, you just kind of like trying it out and everything. And so I remember going back home and we were looking at the pictures, like my daughter just kept repeating the names of her friends and everything, you know, two-year-olds, like they repeat the same thing over and over and they don't want you. you know, scrolling anything and I feel like that was the point where I was like, we can write a story about this day. Like really, I came home, I was so happy. I was so happy. I was so happy that we found people that we can hike with. My baby was so happy and that trip, honestly, those pictures, we kept looking at them and that's when Adventure Day, my first book actually came to life because that very same night, I just kept saying that I need to write a book about the story. So that night I was sitting in my bed and I literally just wrote on my notes on my cell phone. And I was like, this is not going to be a good journey because who's going to publish my story about going on a freaking hike in Wisconsin with kids and everything, right? The story just sounded like, where do you even go? And I remember the first company that I reached to, I don't even remember the name, you know, I reached out to them, I told them that I've written a story and all that and they said, okay, let's look at it and everything and they rejected my story. Like, no, no, this is not gonna work, right? And that was so disappointing, right? But then I was like, well, this is my story and this story, I have been reading it to my child now, okay? Like, this is like a book that needs to be published, my baby loved the story. And so we're getting it out. So that's when I actually looked into self publishing because I was not going to change the story. they actually gave me option. They said, we will love to work with you, but then you will have to change the story. How do you change something so authentic? So I was like, no, bye. I'm going to figure out how to do it my own. So I just decided I'm going to, you know. published this book. I self-published the book and I actually it was not easy to find a illustrator but then it took it took forever it took forever and I think we published that book within six months and I remember telling you know my family that I wrote a book everybody was like what you are an author and I'm like no I'm not but I don't tell anybody you know so that's the thing. The book was published and now I was very, very, very shaky just thinking about like, my gosh, it's out there. You know, like I refused to say that. Yes, I am a self-published author. It was just too much for me. I'm like, I don't need another title. I'm a mom, you know, but yeah, we put the book out there and I think what really, really inspired me to even go to the second one was, um, I got invited to some of the daycare here in Wisconsin. And then all these moms, they were telling me how like they will switch the names from the book when they were reading it. So the kids thought that it was actually them, right? On the books doing all these things. So I was like, okay, this is really a happy book. Like this book is doing something. This is not just a boring book, right? And then that right there, I was like, okay. We need to come up with a second one and then the second one also was also a so most of these stories and most of my books are really related to what we have experienced the sunset hike when it came we brought a money's friend who has never been you know hiking or being outside scared of like. anything like the kid was just scared of everything scared to go hiking doesn't want to be outside doing his dog and everything and that really resonated with me growing up. You know, we were told don't go outside. It's too cold. Don't go outside. It's too dark and don't go outside. There's a lion like all these fears that you know, we were raised with and I am one parent who believed that we we you can teach fear to your child, right? And pretty much that's what they did to me. So Now I was able to write about these stories and it's just kind of like 10 all these things that we see when we are out with our friends to like children's books, you know, inspiring kids to get outside and, you know, do something, you know, for the first time. But then for me, that journey was like, I just couldn't, you know, like get over how many kids I am a witness and taking their first steps outside in nature. I like, this is incredible. Like every week there's like, my baby took a first step. Like it was incredible. Just like being part of that journey and you know, reading adventure day every day, like after every hike. And there wasn't really any pressure because you know, I wasn't going to knock at another company and let them read my story and tell me that you need to do one, two, three. I really wanted to tell the story as it is because The story was already working in my house. My baby was happy to hear the story. All the parents were happy to hear the story. And from right then, that's when I learned from now on going forward, I'm not going to let anybody change my story. I'm going to write my story, tell my story and put it out there. I mean can never satisfy people, you know? If it makes you happy, then you sleep better at night. But then if you're going to wait for someone else to tell you that this is not gonna work, then you're gonna be up for the rest of your life. Yeah. I think you need to put that book out there. Okay. If you don't want to put it with your real name, I think we can create a name. Okay. I'll come up with a South African name. No, I own my story. I own my story. I just don't think I'm a writer. Like, I don't think it's good. That's my biggest hang up. Yeah, I mean, I'm just being honest. It's like, don't think it's, I don't think, I think the book is kind of boring and I've had a couple of my friends read it and they, like, don't, I don't want to talk about it. Just here, you can read it, but I don't want to talk about it. So, okay. Come on. It doesn't work like that. uh if you have a story, you need to tell your story as it is and without feeling like it's your story. It's your life story. So what? What? How? How do you have to make it spicy? Lie? No, it's spicy enough. um You wanna make it spicy? You wanna put some lies in there? No, we wanted the real story. Okay, I want the raw emotions. no, I think you need to put it down. Yeah. And if you wanna self-publish, I will help you. Like, seriously, I have done it and I did get to work with a professional publisher. It was heck of... time and stress and everything so it wasn't really worth it for me so I can help you. Yeah, mean, yeah, it's already, it's been probably a year. stories out there. know, AI is taking over right now, so you need to get your story out there. Yeah, yeah, okay. Enough about me. I just want to register. You need to get your story out there. I have one other thing I just want to talk about really quick because when we were hiking, you had said something to me and I think it resonated pretty deep and it was about, you know, when you check all the boxes in your life, and you think that your life is gonna be a certain way because you get the husband, you get the kid, you get the job, you get the house, everything, and you realize that all that stuff was just what you thought you wanted, and it's not exactly what your heart and your soul need. a lot of my listeners in my audience are women over 40 who have been... They bought that lie. They bought that life. And they're realizing now that it's kind of, it's not real. It's not like true happiness. And I know that you hit that at one point. Oh yeah, that's actually where I am right now because, you know, I think it's just a dream that I mean, for me also growing up in the village, I feel like, you know, the dream was like, yeah, we want to get to America. I want to go and live in California. I didn't even know what was it about California, but that's what we saw in TV. Right. And That's the reason why I'm saying it's very slow here in Wisconsin and I actually love it. But I had those dreams too. And there was a point whereby I used to find myself sitting in the wrong tables. Like I will go out and I'll be in a table whereby these women are just talking bad about their husbands and everything. And I'm like, man. The husbands are not here, they're working hard and everything and they are providing this lifestyle to be here. Why are we talking bad about men? You know, and so I couldn't really relate to that life because of where I come from and what I know my husband is doing, working hard so that I can have this lifestyle. Right. And I remember when I moved to Sun Prairie, I really wanted to be close to Peg. I was like, I love this gym like and I mean like you know considering buying a house just because you love this gym that is super expensive and everything like that those it was because of like the things people that I was around with right and I Feel like definitely I did get lost along the way How do I know that because I got tired going out to? and then after that we have to go drink beer. I'm like this is not my lifestyle. Okay, I like to hike and go home and make a smoothie and carry on about my life, you know, and the same thing that we were just talking earlier on about their holiday. You know, they are coming up and everybody's decorating their home and getting them nice and. uh You know, everybody is just driving to Hobby Lobby every single day. You know, it's this lifestyle and everybody is just kind of like deep into this lifestyle. And I think for me, the wake up call was about five years ago when we were in COVID. You know, when we were in COVID, I feel like we were stripped away lots of like freedom. I didn't have any freedom. We were told not to go outside. That was my lifestyle. And now they're telling me I can't go outside. Like seriously, I can't even go and run outside. So COVID for me, really, because my husband didn't have a job too, it really taught me that all these things that you've been running to, the restaurant, the nice fancy clothes and everything, all that stuff, they don't matter. First of all, you didn't even grow up like this. So what are you gaining out of this? Nothing. Yeah. It was, it was nothing. And, and for me, I think it was a wake up call when we were really sitting around, you know, lockdown whereby, okay, you can't even go hang out with your friend. I can't even go now and run outside, you know, it was really a wake up call. And now I am looking into how do I get out of, you know, this house that we are sitting in? We are actually sitting in that. biggest debt right now like isn't that crazy you know and definitely I am working into going to rural Wisconsin where I was told do not go there there's no black people so that's where I'm going that is yeah that is where I'm going where I have well water and in the Texas are cheaper they and I can actually drive 30 minutes and go get breakfast for $5 and everything. I am seeking that now. Like I am, I am tired of the noise of living in the city and I am saying this. I'm not to just like, like this has been a process. We have been working and talking about this. I feel like that's the only thing that is left for me. Now I need to move in the country. Like I really want love. the country life. just love that quiet life, more authentic and I don't know. It's going to happen soon, definitely working towards that. I think that's the key, right? When we do hit those walls or we hit that, like, oh, this isn't what I thought it was gonna be, is to chase that, not chase, but those desires that we have, to follow those, because that's what's gonna heal us. our whole and and we show up we help other people show up as well. So you're just following your passion. I am yeah and I'm feeling like I I mean I am thinking about this every single day. You know like it's something that I write about. I'm like I just you know and my husband will text me and be like look at this coffee. The coffee even taste better here at the River house. You know like he is also working on this like you need to be here and I'm like I know my child is still at school. You know. But there is just like a peace that I feel when I'm at the river house. Like the thought that I can wake up and not have to worry about like, where am I go? Who am I going to meet today to go and have coffee and everything? Like it's just so relaxed. And then there's a time where I wake up in the morning and I don't have to do list. And I'm like, why did we end up with so many things to do? you know how did we get here how did we get to this life whereby every day we have to swipe a credit card you know and for me also i didn't grow up like that so i knew right away that dinny you're gonna get tired like this is this is not how you're supposed to to live you know and it's funny because like when i go back to south africa they expect me to run around and swipe this credit card because they're like, you're so women Americanized and everything. And me and my husband are like, no, we're going to go get groceries and we're going to cook. We love cooking at home. We love making food at home. We love being at home. We don't love going around the restaurants and everything, you know? And they're shocked. They're like, wow, we thought you in America, you just eating out and drinking out and we're like no no we don't do that we we can't even afford it like that like real life you have to have your own food and yeah i started my own organic garden too during covid for the first time never planted anything and it it has been amazing to just like grow simple things like potatoes in a bag amazing. just like a little things like that going to a store and looking at the carrots like my gosh, three organic carrots. They're $5. How is how does this even make sense? You know, and you start cutting out from things like that and redoing things and unfortunately I did have to unlearn things that I have learned when I became a mom, a wife, and you know, just thinking like. You are not perfect if you don't have this in your kitchen. You are not perfect when you don't have this in your house. You don't need all of those things and then now I hear my friend is like, my gosh I've been decorating I am so tired like there are people right now who are already stressed out and I'm like is it worth it? Is it worth it that you're not sleeping right now because of a meal? So yeah, I don't do things like that anymore. Things that gives me joy is like going on a trip and being involved, like introducing women to new cultures, taking cooking classes, doing dance moves on the trails and... You know, traveling to these places that you read about or you didn't even think that they existed. That's just how I want to spend my money on experiences because every time I come back, feel like, whoo, brand new person, you know? I could talk to you for a really long time. I would love to have you back on I feel like we could chat some more, how can my listeners and my audience, how can they follow along on your journey? And if they... feel the need to come on a hike, where can they find that information Yeah, so I usually use my full name at dinner or doubt. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and where else and then I do have my blog. It's Wisconsin Adventure Family where I usually publish my international travels and it does the other thing. The trips that I host for women, they usually fill up within a week. So if I have a trip coming up, it doesn't even make it to my Instagram because, you know, they fill up pretty quick. And the other thing is I usually like to take small groups because I don't like to take women out there and make them feel like lost or lonely. So if we go, it's 10 and 12 people. Most of these people, they always feel like they have somebody. I like to give them support and make them feel like we are all here together. And so that's thing, like most of the people that I travel with, they come back, you know, because they get something out of it. And I am not one of those people who just travel for fun. I started traveling to raise funds to build digital libraries in South Africa, because I have learned too that when we went to Kilimanjaro for the first time, there were women who were there. They never left the country. There were women who were there because they had extra money sitting in there. savings account, right? And so my trips are really not for people who just have money sitting around, you know, they're all about, there's gonna be a life coach. They are really about learning something new about the country. We love giving back to the community. So when we get to a country, we do cooking classes, we get involved into the local people. And so they're about sisterhood because once you get on that group chat and start planning and talking, then before you know it, you really have sisters that. You get to know by the time you get to the destination, you feel like you know everybody. And by the time you come back, you're like, what's the next trip? Where are we going? So yes. Yeah. So if you come with me on a trip, I'm warning you right now, you are joining a cult that you are never going to be able to get off. I hope I'm sure at one point I will go on a nice big old trip with you. But until then, I will take my little hikes and just follow along on your journey. Yeah, I'm telling you you are welcome to join anytime. Okay, you don't have to wait for a big trip or feel like you're not welcome No, you're welcome anytime and thank you for having me. This was really amazing