EP35 Pondering Review - The Honour of the Last Seven Months

Join hosts Julie and Philippa as they reflect on the last seven months of 'Pondering Play and Therapy' podcast. They discuss their experiences, highlight notable guests, and ponder the future direction of the show. Topics include the significance of play throughout different stages of life, the impact of COVID-19 on free play, and international perspectives on incorporating play into various professional practices. The episode also announces the podcast's expansion to YouTube and a call for listener engagement.

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Transcript

Pondering Review - The honour of the last 7 months

[00:00:00] 

Julie: Welcome to this episode of Pondering Play and Therapy with me, 

Philippa: Julie, and me Philippa. And this week we're going to just reflect on the last seven months of pondering play and the experience that we've had of delivering the punk. Podcast thinking about some of the guests that we've had on, 'cause they've been absolutely amazing.

Mm-hmm. Where are we going in the future? 'cause we have got some changes that have started to come in. Uh, maybe thinking about some of our guests in the future and just thinking really about what it's been like for us as middle aged white women presenting a podcast and having to learn all these things as we go along.

Is that not right, Julie? That's what we are gonna think about. 

Julie: I think, yeah, we met yesterday to think what's the next episode about? I think actually it would be really good. To just pause and think, well, why are we still doing this? Who, who has [00:01:00] come onto the podcast as interviewees and who are the listeners?

And just to pause, I suppose to ponder, we, we love that word, pondering. Just taking that moment to think, to reflect, to look back, to look forward. And I know certainly it's something we do with our clients but both of. As part of our work, our working with children and families, and we call it review meetings, but it's really just a pondering moment, a moment to pause every now and again with the parents and with the child or young person and to think, oh where are we up to?

What's happening at school? What's happening at home? How's the therapy going? Is there anything we need to tweak? Is there anything. We really struggled with any of us and just taking that sort of breather and because we are recording this sort of [00:02:00] during the, the British summertime and where it's not the summertime for everybody in the world at the moment, but August, September time in certainly in the UK is, is holiday time and just that time to pause and I feel like I'm sort of stretching.

Some of my work commitments have lessened a bit this, this month and just a chance to kind of stretch and look over the horizon and as you said to look back, yeah, we've been doing this since November. And yeah, Philippa, just say a bit more, say a bit please. About why you wanted to start this and how we got started.

And, and then to see, it's almost like what was our goal and aims and are we reaching those or have we wandered off into something else? Which is what happens with therapy often as well. Mm. You start with these goals [00:03:00] and then, oh, you do the first or second review meeting thing? Well, actually we're going somewhere else, so Yeah.

We'll wait. Why did we start? 

Philippa: Yeah, I get, we started, didn't we? Because we often meet and have consultations, supervisions, and, and have what I felt were really rich conversations that often were more than. The thing we were looking at they went into a bigger thought process of, of what is going on?

Why are these things happening? What? And often I thought they were really interesting and I of often felt like. If I could have heard somebody have that conversation when I was starting my process, when I was starting my journey, thinking about resistance and that this is not about being difficult.

This [00:04:00] is something else that's going on, or about maybe parents who are struggling to engage or commit. Certainly as a social worker, when I was working on child protection and parents couldn't get up in the morning and couldn't take the kids to school. There was a thought process of, well, they're not doing it, so we need to go to the next level and up the pressure on them.

GMT20250726-092255_Recording_gallery_1280x720: And actually 

Philippa: some of the conversations we have are around, actually this is not that they won't do it, it's that they can't do it. And how do we help somebody rather than how do we beat them with a stick to make them do it? And I suppose it was those, it was bringing those conversations into a community really.

Of professionals of parents. We wanted it to be accessible, didn't we? For parents, for child minders, for school teachers, for TAs. Something that maybe would help them think about their work that might be helpful. We weren't saying, [00:05:00] this is how you've got to do it. What we were saying was actually, we are in our fifties.

We've had all this experience. This might be helpful for you because some of this was maybe what would've been helpful for us when we were starting our journey. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think that was the driver, wasn't it? To have the conversations out more widely. Um. It was just nowhere near as simple as recording a conversation and putting it out there for people to listen to.

It, just wasn't that simple, was it? We, we've been on a journey and which again, I think has been really helpful because one of the things that we know about brains is that learning new skills and doing new things kind of really helps your brain to keep active, to keep developing, to, to be healthy, really.

So in some ways it's been a healthy thing for us to do. I think there was moments, there still [00:06:00] is where I'm a little bit hyperfocused on it and kind of can't get it out my head, and I'm not sure always how healthy that is for the people around me, even if I am enjoying it. But I think that's where we started.

That was our principle, wasn't it, was let's share these conversations. We enjoy doing it. Learn something new and it might be helpful for other people. Parents maybe to think about, well, why does the, therapist CC do that? Or why does the social worker say that? Or why is my little person really struggling with big feelings and I feel like I'm doing everything?

And, and maybe just giving them a little bit of different information that might help somebody in their family, in their school, in their home, in their foster home. Be begin to explore a different avenue that might make things a little bit easier for them or a little bit more [00:07:00] of an idea of where to go to get support if you can't fix it yourself.

Would that be fair? 

Julie: Yeah, I think so. Certainly we've been meeting for many, many years, as you said, as as doing supervision, doing consultation, having professional conversations. And we've often thought at the end, gosh, that was a great conversation. We've often run way over our time. The, oh, I just need to say that we, we've started thinking about a family, but then we've gone into sort of wider thinking and really the has been.

Pressing, pressing record on some of those conversations. But as you've said, and you've taken on the bulk of this thank you, is the learning. All the buttons on the computer you didn't know existed. All the platforms we didn't know how to make access to, and we've been delighted to be able to get from November to now, so seven months.

And do about [00:08:00] 36 episodes. I mean, this has come out pretty much every Friday for seven months, and we have got so many more episodes already in the bag lined up to be edited, to come out in the next few months. I think we've got enough to get us to November or December so far, and a big part of that has been moving a little bit away from, but not completely away from.

Philippa and Julie conversations, of which we've had many and have put many of those out, but beginning more recently to really branch out, to interview other equally very, very interesting people who. I've got a lot to say about their area of play in the world. Some of them are therapists, some of them are young people, some are policy makers.

And being able to appreciate their [00:09:00] generosity in coming onto the podcast and having conversations with you or with me. And I have to say that's become the real sort of life giver of that. Certainly for me, I. I really enjoy being able to listen to somebody else and perhaps do a few prompts, find out about them, do a bit of Googling, find out about them, have a little conversation beforehand.

And one of the things I, I don't know. I think Philippa and you and I do the interviews in slightly different styles, be because we're different. 

GMT20250726-092255_Recording_gallery_1280x720: Mm. 

Julie: And you've come into this whole process with a lot more confidence and energy. And I remember the very first episode, I was like, oh, I've been for a swim and I'm so nervous.

I don't really want to do this, but I'm doing it because you want to. So I, I feel in a sense, I'm, I'm. We are still holding those differences. I didn't need to go for a swim this morning. I was okay about being [00:10:00] recorded. And this is one of our first ones together that's being video recorded, so that's another challenge.

The exposition of that. But one of the things I've been asking the couple of people I've interviewed so far, Simon Simon Airy, he's, he's done a, a, an interview about play and neurodiversity. He has autism himself. He's an autistic adult. Who works with children in a primary school. Really, really interesting conversation with him.

And then I also interviewed the only play therapist in Bangladesh, Mossack Imran, who's a past student of a university in the uk and then went back to Bangladesh. And the question I've been asking them, and I've got lined up for my next couple of interviews is. Before you tell me about play in your profession, tell me about play in your life [00:11:00] now as an adult, and then tell me about play for you as a child or young person.

And interestingly, both of them have also talked about play in their workplace, play with the other adults in their workplace. I suppose that's a part of the podcast I hadn't anticipated because both of us work with children and young people. I started off thinking, okay, that's what we're focusing on.

Children, young people. But more and more since doing the podcast, I've started noticing how people play right through the lifespan. Mm-hmm. I've noticed how I play how I play at work, how. How I play with relatives who are the same age as me, 50, 60, seventies and beginning to think about what will play be for [00:12:00] me as I go into my elder years, as I go into my seventies and eighties.

And I've become much, much more curious about where is play across the lifespan. So I'm certainly thinking about. Who, we might interview, who's working with older adults, who's working in a care home and where's playfulness in there. So it, it is become such an interesting journey. I, I hadn't imagined that I'd be interviewing people and I hadn't imagined I'd be asking them, tell me about play in your life.

Philippa: I think for me that has been, I've loved our conversations and I love recording them, but for me, the interviewing of people, it's just been the best experience. I'm like, people do this for a job. Why didn't I know that? And [00:13:00] that wouldn't, I wouldn't have done it because I actually love my kids and my families so much that I probably wouldn't.

But it is just a really, really good thing. And the thing that I, you know, as also just fills me with, I don't know, just a lovely feeling is that. People say Yes, and that is the thing. I'm like, okay, so you just e randomly send a message to somebody, email them and say, we're doing this podcast, we can't pay you we don't make any money we just, little would you come on along an interview? And they say, yes. And are so gracious with their time and so open with their, their, their stories that they tell us and, and their giving really. And that in itself, especially I think sometimes when we see the world through the news and all the [00:14:00] horrific things that are going on to actually spend time with people who are so generous with their time.

And so. Passionate about what they do and where play fits into that. Whether they are, like Mar Margarite, hunter Blair, who's championing play for young ones in Scotland and trying to find a space. We, we've got an interview for her. We've also got Eugene OG, who's play England. Uh, he's coming along to tell us about what's happening in, England.

So they're doing early years to Joe Franks, who is working with, people who are in custody and in prison and how play or play or the lack of play and how play is being fought for in there. And these people are really busy people who've [00:15:00] got loads of stuff going on, but they still want to share their.

Their passion really for the client group they work with, for the communities they're in, for for what they're doing. And, and Hillary Kennedy was my first interview, and she was the most inspiring woman. But then everybody I met after that, I'm like, oh yeah, this is my favorite interview. And then this is my favorite interview and everyone's my favorite interview because they're all so.

Yeah, so different in what they bring and what they do, but this commonality of we want to do the best for the community, for the people, for the, for the nation that we are working in is just so inspiring. But I'll still find time to spend an hour and a half with you. And talk about it and share it. And that, I think has been one of the greatest [00:16:00] privileges really of, of doing this.

It's just been amazing, really. And yeah, I just think, I just wanna do this as my job. I don't really there's times where you come up and you just think. And we've interviewed people from all over from Australia. We had Colby Pierce from Australia and Marshall Lyles and Mandy Jones from America.

We've got an interview coming up with a play therapist from again, Australia. Jasmine, I interviewed somebody from Canada, Jessica, who it was in game design for apps for little people. That was really interesting. Scotland, England. Uh, I've got one coming up from, uh, a young man in Cornwall who works with very challenging adults really, and how play comes into their work with adults with, with learning difficulties who, sometimes their behavior can be [00:17:00] really challenging, but play actually is helpful there and so it's been amazing. You've interviewed must start from Bangladesh. 

It's just been amazing really. And people have just said yes, that is the biggest thing.

Yeah. Like I haven't had 

Julie: anybody say no. I haven't had anybody say no if I've approached them. Do fancy coming on. We'd really love to interview you for this podcast. As you said, we're very relatively small. There is no money in it. And everybody has said yes. And as you said very busy people.

Sometimes it's a month or so before we can set up the interview. But you know, they've been able to carve out time and, give that very generously, and I have found it absolutely fascinating. And something I would like to say to listeners is. If you've got a project or if you've got something to say or if you would like to come onto the [00:18:00] podcast please, get in touch with us because we would love to interview you, whatever as, as long as play is somehow part of what you do or what you are passionate about.

There's a space for it on this podcast, and I think 

Philippa: you can bring play in, like when I was talking to Joe Franks about custody and, and, uh, his role was. Something called diversion. So it's trying to stop people getting into custody when they've, committed a criminal offense and you think, well, how could play be in there?

But actually there was play, and sometimes it's the lack of play and noticing what the lack of play means and how people are trying to understand that a bit more and trying to bring it in. So I think even thinking about the lack of play and the impact that can have. It, it is really important. It's really, it is a really important conversation, but you will [00:19:00] find that somewhere somebody is trying to sneak it in, whether it's giving teenagers stress balls, if they're in a, if they're waiting in, in a police custody suite or painting murals on a wall or there's a way where it is trying to just sneak in.

And I think we are. Star as a a, a nation may be starting to understand a little bit more about the importance of play and, and the impact when that is lost. And, that again, is a theme that's come through is, is yes. And there's been a loss of play and the change of play the impact that has, and that COVID seemed to speed that up in some ways.

Mm-hmm. And make it more notable, noticeable there was. Kind of the two. And I know that Mossack, when he was talking to you, was talking about how plays changed there in, in, in Bangladesh. 

GMT20250726-092255_Recording_gallery_1280x720: Mm-hmm. 

Philippa: Um, and I think that's, that, that has [00:20:00] definitely been a theme that's come through through to me is that there's been a loss of free play.

Yes. So we structure play more and we do school ready play, which, hillary Kennedy and Marguerite both talked about is this, there is structured play in getting children ready for school and ready to, to meet their SAT tests and things like that, but this loss of, of free play, and we talked about, didn't we, about disadvantaged communities and the loss of space within those disadvantaged communities and how that affects it.

And I know like I was just saying, Mossack, he talked about that change in Bangladesh. That replay it is not as, as readily accessed or available. And, and I think that's been a big theme for me. Mm-hmm. 

Julie: That's what I found interesting in asking people where, where's play in your life now as an adult, [00:21:00] uh, but when they're all, when they've each been thinking back to themselves as children and young people and what was available for them or how play was encouraged.

Allowed and given time and given space. There's always been some lament, some sense of, oh, well, when I was a child this happened. But I notice with the children in my life now, nieces, nephews, children, clients, pupils, they don't have that now, and this. There is a lament, there's a sadness around that for many of the people I've interviewed saying that what was there for me isn't there for me now, and, and and some of them are in the, they're not as old as I am.

They're in their thirties, early forties and yet they're lamenting what's even happened in the last 20 years in, in their spaces. That's why it's so [00:22:00] interesting hearing what the national bodies like Play Scotland. Play England, and in Northern Ireland it's called Play Board. And there's also play whales and really, wanting to get in touch with those policy, um, organizations that are informing policy.

Like what do we do about this? Because this is serious. Mm, definitely. And that play is a serious thing. It's not an add-on. It's not just being frivolous. It's absolutely essential for human development. Mm-hmm. And to sustain human relationships. 

Philippa: I was reading this morning um, a survey that's been done by SIO, it's I-P-S-O-S and Politics, Joe.

And they had interviewed young people. No, they were looking at young people, but they'd interviewed people from 16 to [00:23:00] 75. Mm-hmm. And they were, they were thinking about, you know, again, their mental health really. But one of the biggest things that came out was that one in three young people felt lonely.

Quite often during a week, but they would say they'd got many friends. Mm. And that, that disconnect between, I've got many friends, but actually I feel lonely quite often. And I was listening to politics. Joe is a, is a, is a podcast that it's a, it is about politics, but actually they were talking about this survey and what they, were picking up on was this.

I guess what we, are saying is this change in habits and one of the things that they talked about was the third space. So whilst we're talking about players as, children and the space not being available, they were talking about play the third space. [00:24:00] That's not work or not home where you meet as a community.

So maybe the local pub or the park if you are 16, 17, or the gym or places like that, that have become out maybe too costly for people to attend to or they're closed down or they're not available. So I suppose what it made me think about is we're losing the spaces to play.

And disconnecting children. And then we're moving into adulthood and we are losing these, what they call the third spaces. So these other places that you go and play where play dots or you have a chat or there's, it's about connection, isn't it? And that's what we are losing is these connection and it's coming out in this feeling of loneliness.

Mm-hmm. And I think that, margaret hunter Blair talked about that. They'd done a survey of young people and [00:25:00] that was some of what, they were saying. It was after COVID was the loss of freedom. We don't have freedom. We want more freedom, but this just being able to connect. Mm-hmm. And I think that, that, that is being lost, but the interviews that.

We do, people are noticing it and are trying really hard to do something about it. Yeah. And that's the hope in it isn't there? Is that yes, we know there's a loss, but there's also these great, Hillary Kennedy was on the thousand and one committee, which is looking at the first, uh, 1001 days and how they bring play into there.

So there is a recognition that this is going on and thinking about how all these people are, are driving forward change because the impact is being seen in adulthood. Mm-hmm. In a, in a different way. But it's still the same, isn't it? 

Julie: Yeah where do we meet? [00:26:00] And I, I was saying to you yesterday that on my way to the gym and I am fortunate enough to be able to have that as one of my third spaces, to meet other people, to see other people to do something playful and, and healthy with my body.

And I'm very grateful that I'm in a position to be able to do that. And on the way there, I passed the local youth club. It's a TaeKwonDo center and a youth club in a sort of small prefab building, a low building that I think has been in my part of the world for about four, since the

 1940s. It has run and it has closed its doors on the very first day of the school holidays because of lack of funding.

And it just suddenly closed. It was open one week and then it closed, and it happened to be the very first day of our school holidays. So those hundreds of [00:27:00] young people, children and young people who were expecting to go on trips, who were expecting to spend their days in the youth club, uh, it's suddenly taken away.

It breaks my heart to walk past that and to see that padlock on that building. 

And there's lots of campaigning going on very suddenly within the community to try and do something about that, but it's like, it's always been there. Everybody's always known about that. Youth club. Loads of people's children have been to the youth club, then they become leaders and then they end up getting jobs at the youth club, and then they send their kids to it.

It's being part of this little square mile. Years and years, and then suddenly first week of the summer holidays it's locked up. And I'm thinking about all those children or young people who are then in their houses 

GMT20250726-092255_Recording_gallery_1280x720: for the next 

Julie: six weeks instead of at the youth club. 

GMT20250726-092255_Recording_gallery_1280x720: Yeah. 

Julie: And what [00:28:00] that says to them about their value, how, what do we think of them?

Absolutely. What does the local councils think about their, their needs? Seems to be saying we don't care, but there, I know it will be complex and there'll be all sorts of reasons why it hasn't been able to be funded, but so yeah, that's certainly something that's come up from a lot of the interviews is noticing where the gaps are, noticing that things aren't available that have been available in the past.

Philippa: That play isn't prioritized. That's these people that we're interviewing are prioritizing play, but that. Maybe policy organizational makers, it doesn't, like you say they close the youth club where, you know it's a rounding area. What it would take to keep that open. Really. But you don't, it's not a priority.

The spaces aren't a priority, but there's [00:29:00] people driving it forward that are saying, we need to make it a priority. We need to think about it. Let's get it into legislation. Build a community that, that says, this is important for us. You know, you are saying your community's banding together to, to argue for it.

So there are, and that's the hope that I get think the podcast get, has given me, is that there are people that are really invested in their communities, in their practice, but as a , as a wider thing as well. So it was on all levels that people are , invested in play wanting to to be part, wanting just going on the podcast and talking about it and noticing it and thinking about where it is.

, This week's episode, the week that we are talking about, so it'll be a few weeks ago, by the time people are listening to this. Angela was talking about residential care and how [00:30:00] play is really important in in children's homes and how that can be building relationships, building connection, and she was really passionate about.

Providing support for young people within community homes, residential homes. Um, so they still have these access to these playful moments. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and I just think that is lovely to hear. It's been lovely to talk lovely to think about how people are doing that and hopefully sharing that.

So other people, it might inspire others to think, well, if they can do it in their community, we can do it in ours, or, oh yeah, that'd be really great to bring into our residential home. Or some of the conversations we've had about regulation and repair play and safety that might help people think about actually how can play be in our everyday lives where we don't have to think, oh, we've got to get [00:31:00] all the all these toys out and play, but how can we have a playful moment with some bubbles or a cotton ball or jumping in some puddles?

And, uh, I think that those are the important moments for me that, that hopefully the podcast is starting to share. 

Julie: And I think I'm, I'm looking at this big list in front of m

e. So, so before we started today, I asked you, Philippa how many, downloads we've had. And actually we are not really that interested in the numbers.

So you gave me the figure for the downloads, but then I said. Where are the people who've downloaded? So this is a if, listeners, you might know that you might be the only person in one of these countries. But we have noticed you, you come up on our, statistics every week. So as expected, lots of people from the uk, from the us, we've gone to other English speaking countries like Canada, Australia, [00:32:00] New Zealand, Ireland.

But we've also hit Puerto Rico, so hello, if that's you. Egypt, South Africa. Quite a few downloads in South Africa, Thailand, big, quite big number there. Belgium, Spain, Greece, Italy, Hong Kong, Singapore. Nairobi in Kenya. Those are the ones that we've we've seen so far, but I expect there might be others.

And what we've been, I think there was Iran and Neway wasn't there? There was Iran and Uruguay as well. Yeah. Thank you. And there may well be others that have gone a bit further down the list we looked at this morning. And what I would love to do is interview somebody if you are one of the people in Uruguay, if you are one of the people in Nairobi let us know because we'd really love to interview you and [00:33:00] find out what's the thinking about play.

Your community in your city, in your country. And you might be a parent, you might be a social worker, you might be a grandparent, you might be a young person who's just interested in play and playfulness. Or you might be one of the government leaders in your country and making policy about play.

Whoever you are, whatever your role is. We'd love to have you on the podcast to do some more pondering because I think the, these conversations are not had enough and it's almost like we could have 3, 4, 5 years worth of interviews and still not scratch the surface, but hearing about how play is being thought about across the world.

In different communities and as you said, learning from each [00:34:00] other. Oh, so you do that in your place. I was reading about play Streets yesterday , where communities just block off little bit of the street for a while and couple of parents may be out helping any cars in and out if they need to go.

But basically regularly the children get. Anybody, it doesn't need to just be the children get the chance to be on the street and play. And that was started by a few people and then they've formulated it a little bit and are able to teach other people. How can you make your street into a play street?

What do you need to ask the local authority for? What do you need to do safety wise, but, and just go ahead and do it. And how one community can teach another. And I 

Philippa: think that's really important 'cause playing a game like Kirby is a really important, I think, writer passage. What is, I dunno what that is. So you um, you [00:35:00] might have called it something different from down there in the south where you stand on either side of the road on the pavement and you have a football and you throw it and it has to hit the curb and bounce back if it bounces back and you catch it.

You get two points. If it bounces back and rolls over, it has to roll over that halfway. Then you get one point. 

Julie: Never played that Philipp. 

Philippa: Oh my gosh. Everyone should play Kirby. Everyone in the north will be like, yeah, we played that. But you can't play it nowadays 'cause the streets are too busy. Yeah. You need it, you need to be able to throw the ball and, and stand in the mi stand in the middle and go and catch it.

Yeah. Kirby, we used to play that and you keep going. Until you miss the curb or it doesn't roll back to halfway and then you, then the next person ha, has a go and it's Oh, okay, so you take it in turn. So yeah, having a game of Kirby, but [00:36:00] everybody should be able to play Kirby, I think at some point in their life.

And you need a streak that hasn't got cars on. Anyways, I was taking this off my reminiscing there. I guess the next thing to think about is where are we going forward, aren't we? So we are saying, we are definitely gonna put out more interviews. We've got a lot of interviews lined up. So we are, we started off just us.

And then we interviewed people and we didn't really think, like I said, that we'd get very many, but we got loads. But we were doing an interview then Oz, an interview, then Oz, and then we got quite a lot backed up. So we decided, we've decided through the summer. This will be released in September, but we are, we're recording this in August.

We are gonna release just interviews just because we've just got some really great interviews. So we are gonna release those. And then on the beginning of September we are going. Into [00:37:00] YouTube. So actually this will be our fourth YouTube video. We have got three that are coming before us that are interviews, but that is our shift is moving into YouTube and maybe putting a few clips on TikTok.

And the hope, the reason we're doing that is we get lovely downloads each week, and if you listen to us regularly or even just one off, we thank you and we really appreciate every download. Every day when I come in from work, the first thing I do is check if our podcast has been listened to and by how many, and it's growing slow and steady.

But I suppose what we think is that the people that we are talking about or talking with. Oh, so interesting. And they can't just be so interesting to us. They I know that I get comments and they'll say, oh, do you know, I listened to that podcast with Charlotte Jenkins about the nervous [00:38:00] system.

I was so, so great it's really helped me in my practice. Or I was thinking about my child, or I've looming and also the app that she's got, I've downloaded. That's been really great. So we get comments, don't we? We at a fair play conference, um, together the other week and people were saying, oh, I listen to you every week.

So we know people are listening and we know it's really, really helpful. But I think it's it's in our, world really, there is bits going trickling out, but it's primarily. Kind of, just in where we can connect really through social media. We are not, we don't have a budget. We do this for completely free for the, for the love of it.

So we are hoping that YouTube might help us reach a bit of a bigger audience because two thirds of successful podcasts are on YouTube. We, know that. It means one third aren't, [00:39:00] but I'm guessing you need a good advertising campaign to get to that point, really. So we are thinking that YouTube, and maybe if I can figure it out, some TikTok clips might help us reach.

A wider community so they can hear, because that's the thing is I just think they should be listening and hearing to these amazing people that we're interviewing and just, yeah, if you are in this world or interested in play in any way, shape, or form, the I think it's a treat to listen to them and those sorts of things.

So that's what, so we are going into YouTube and because people have said yes. And we've got so many amazing people to interview. We are going to do two and one, aren't we? So we're gonna do release two interviews and one of us talking because we think that probably people might be more [00:40:00] interested in the interviews than us, but if you have a different view, or a topic that you want us to discuss, then please let us know. We have got a website and there's bits on there and the places you can comment. But you can also DM us on Facebook, on Instagram, leave a comment, subscribe. Any of those things is always gonna help us because the wider audience we can reach.

It is great. And that's not about for us it's really is about these interviews we think are interesting. Maybe we're wrong. Maybe we'll get loads of comments like, no love, you've just got that. But I think that we've got really interesting people sharing really interesting things.

And it's a shame that not more people are listening to them really. 

Julie: And, [00:41:00] and that will grow. Everything grows. It's a bit like when we're doing therapy with, with children and, and their families. It can, things take a while to, to get off the ground and often go in directions that we are not expecting.

And that may well it's already happening with this podcast. It's going in a direction you and I hadn't anticipated when we first thought about this about a year ago. And that's where the life is, just taking a risk and seeing what happens. And for me, one of the most exciting bits is you know, receiving comments, especially when somebody asks a question.

We've had young parents ask questions. We've had practitioners, therapists, teachers, others just pose a question or disagree with us. So please certainly Philippa, you and I disagree quite a bit in what we think about play and therapy, [00:42:00] and we have those dialogues which. Help each of us to shift and open our minds to new ideas.

We're certainly not stuck in our ways when we're thinking about a family or a child. We literally are pondering, we're thinking what possibly could be going on? Well, I think it might be this. Oh, well how about that? Do you think it might be something, well, have you read this? Or, how about this concept? We very rarely in our consultations come up with a.

It's definitely that go away and do this, and that will make it all better because we know human beings and relationships and therapy don't work like that. But ultimately, we're about connection. We're about noticing when connection is present and the quality of that connection. And I think that's what the podcast is about as well.

It's about connection. And so for me, the most exciting bit is [00:43:00] seeing the map and seeing where the podcast has gone to and knowing there is a connection with at least one person in Uruguay. Yeah. With, at least with one person in Puerto Rico. Maybe several people in Nairobi, because there's quite a number from there, but there is a connection and it's like, how do we strengthen that connection?

What does that connection look 

Philippa: like? I guess one of the ways we're gonna do that is we are gonna be sending out a newsletter yes. To let people know. These are the episodes that have come up. We do a blog as well. And I guess the other thing that I know that you are quite passionate about, Julia, is making the podcast accessible.

So we do a transcript of the podcast for people. Who are non-hearing and we put captions on. But if anybody has got any ideas around, you know, actually this would be more accessible for me. Mm-hmm. [00:44:00] Or this use this type of font or this color, or if we can we are not saying we definitely do it, but we would be interested in people's thoughts and ideas about how do we make this more accessible, more of a community. 'cause that's what we want, isn't it? We want it to be a playful community, really. So then let us know. 

Julie: Yeah. So if it, yes if, the podcast in, in the many forms that it comes out, which is pure audio and now on. YouTube with the captions that are created by YouTube, but we have some options as to how those, those captions look.

Are they better above the, images? Are they better below, and things like that. Or if you know something more about this than we know. I mean, we're, we are really. Beginners with learning the technology. If there are accessibility tools that we can be adding to [00:45:00] any of the ways that we output the podcast, then please let us know. We are talking to people as much as we can to find out and to inform ourselves about that. But if there is something that we've clearly missed, that would be, you know, something that we could add on. Let us know because you know that's a huge part of what we want to do with the podcast is certainly not to make it restricted in any way.

I guess the only 

Philippa: caveat to that is it has to be free. Whatever we use it has to be free or just a little bit. Yeah. 'cause we, we don't, this is a, that we do this as most podcasters do. Um, yeah. Because we enjoy it, because we want to be here doing it. So there isn't a budget. We do have to pay for things and, and we are happy to do, like Julie says, a small some, but we are not gonna be able to, to, to.

Fund huge [00:46:00] amounts of, of no. 

Julie: But if, if you know of any funding that would help us to be able to, for instance, make put in BSL British Sign Language captions if, anybody knows of any budgets to do things like that, we'd be delighted to know because, uh, we really want to make. This podcast as accessible as possible whether there's ways of on YouTube of it doing I know they'll be quite crude, but quick translations into different languages. So we are still, yeah, we are at the beginnings, but we are not right at the beginning and delighted that the people are still listening and the numbers are growing.

Delighted that we've reached. Continent apart from Antarctica and, but whoever you never know might get there. And, and to say a huge thank you to listeners and [00:47:00] yeah, and thank you. 

Philippa: I was gonna say, and we've got, our Facebook page is growing, our Instagram page is growing and it's really nice to see people are following us there and because that's where we post. Clips and it updates and things like that. So we will be sending out a newsletter, but if you don't want, I understand that some people just don't. I am one of those people. I don't want newsletters coming into my inbox. I, I like a zero inbox. I can't cope with the numbers on the side, so I definitely don't want newsletters.

But if you do want to know what episodes are coming out or maybe have it. Quick listen to an episode or something like that. Then we regularly post them and, and we are we've got growing numbers on there. So I'm really thankful for those people who follow us and supporters and like the pages and repost all.

That's just really helpful and I really appreciate it. 'cause again, we don't always know what we're doing in those [00:48:00] arenas. So yeah, it's been. It's been lovely and it's been lovely seeing other people 'cause when they connect with us, we connect with them and it's, and it, and I've seen so many more kind of things that people are doing.

Like we Vicky from Little City, I think she was our second or third interview. I'd never heard of Little City uk, the mobile role play. But actually I. We connect our, on Instagram, we've done the interview and I've just seen that they've taken it onto cruise ships. So they are doing it on cruise ships now, and, and they've gone into some amazing places.

So social media helps you see the development of also the, interviewees we we've had on there and know what's going on. So that's, that's really lovely as well, that we can connect in those ways, I think. 

Julie: Hmm. 

Philippa: [00:49:00] So 

Julie: that's the main aim really is to, is to build a community of young people, adults, elders who have an interest in play or are curious about play and can begin to have conversations and share their experiences.

And we're certainly not coming at this with any expertise or any sense of. Go away and do this. There's no tasks. There's no strategies, but we're hoping that the conversations we have and the conversations we have with others might spark off somebody else's thinking to find what they've got in themselves.

To be able to bring play to the situations they're in. And it's just getting a couple of ideas or a different way of thinking about things. And that's probably a good place to wind up for 

Philippa: today. [00:50:00] Absolutely. So yes, so thank you everybody for listening. Subscribe to our YouTube channel if you are watching it on there, 'cause that really helps us click like as well on any of the pages if you're interested. Join our newsletter email. We've got a website there, which is in the bio. So yeah, we'll see you next time around. So thank you very much for listening.