Shadow Me Next!

Using your gut in medicine (just don't insert the lightbulb) | Jenn Johnson, RN

• Ashley Love • Season 1 • Episode 45

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What if the most powerful tool in your clinical toolkit isn’t a monitor or a protocol, but a feeling you’ve learned to trust? We sit down with ER nurse Jenn Johnson to follow her unexpected path from failing organic chemistry to thriving in emergency care. She began in a tiny rural hospital where one RN ran the show, then in a major stroke center with full support and faster medicine. Along the way, Jenn exposes the hidden curriculum of healthcare: how culture shapes confidence, why bullying and micromanagement derail good care, and how real resilience starts with better sleep, better boundaries, and saying yes to yourself without guilt.

Jenn opens up about the COVID years, stressed with parenting two small kids while working nights, running on fragments of sleep, and realizing that self-preservation is patient safety. She breaks down the practical side of intuition as high-speed pattern recognition at triage: spotting “sick vs really sick,” acting before vitals crash, and asking the awkward questions that prevent disasters in the waiting room. We explore how stories teach better than lectures, why an extra physician touchpoint improves outcomes even when orders don’t change, and how simple advocacy can convert worry into action.

If you’re a pre-health student, new grad nurse, or seasoned clinician rethinking your limits, you'll benefit from Jenn's directives: choose supportive environments, leverage agency and flexible shifts, and build clinical instincts with mentorship and reps. Jenn's book—Nursing Intuition: How to Trust Your Gut, Save Your Sanity, and Survive Your Career—offers an evidence-backed blueprint for making your instincts reliable and your career sustainable. Subscribe, share this episode with a colleague who needs it, and leave a review to help more listeners find these stories and tools. Your gut is talking—ready to listen?

More about Jenn at her website: www.nursejenn.ca

And check out her book: Nursing Intuition: How to Trust Your Gut, Save Your Sanity, and Survive Your Career

Virtual shadowing is an important tool to use when planning your medical career. At Shadow Me Next! we want to provide you with the resources you need to find your role in healthcare and secure your place in medicine.

Check out our pre-health resources. Great for pre-med, pre-PA, pre-nursing, pre-therapy students or anyone else with an upcoming interview!
Mock Interviews: shadowmenext.com/mock-interviews
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Want to be a guest on Shadow Me Next!? Send Ashley Love a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/175073392605879105bc831fc

Ashley:

Hello and welcome to Shadow Me Next, a podcast where I take you into and behind the scenes of the medical world to provide you with a deeper understanding of the human side of medicine. I'm Ashley, a physician assistant, medical editor, clinical preceptor, and the creator of Shadow Me Next. It is my pleasure to introduce you to incredible members of the healthcare field and uncover their unique stories, the joys and challenges they face, and what drives them in their careers. It's access you want and stories you need. Whether you're a pre-health student or simply curious about the healthcare field, I invite you to join me as we take a conversational and personal look into the lives and minds of leaders in medicine. I don't want you to miss a single one of these conversations. So make sure that you subscribe to this podcast, which will automatically notify you when new episodes are dropped. And follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Shadow Me Next, where we will review highlights from this conversation and where I'll give you sneak previews of our upcoming guests. Nursing was never on Jen Johnson's radar. In fact, she'll tell you she fell into it after failing organic chemistry. What started as a compressed nursing program led her to a small rural hospital in Northern Ontario, where she often was the only RN on duty, calling physicians in as needed, learning to MacGyver solutions, and realizing she had a gift for the fast-paced world of emergency medicine. But Jen's story gets even more interesting. She opens up about being bullied early in her career, hitting a breaking point during COVID when she was juggling ER shifts and two small children without sleep, and how she rebuilt resilience. She shares the lessons that shaped her, like why trusting your gut in medicine can save lives, why saying yes to yourself doesn't mean saying no to others, and how listening to stories can be the most powerful form of medical education. Today, Jen is not just an ER nurse. She's a mentor, a writer, and an advocate helping other nurses survive their careers with both skill and sanity intact. Please keep in mind that the content of this podcast is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as professional medical advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the host and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. This is Shadow Me Next with Jen Johnson. Jen, thank you so much for joining us on Shadow Me Next today. This is going to be a really eye-opening conversation for a lot of people. Number one, because of what you do and where you work, but number two, because of your experiences in those places. So thanks for joining us. Thanks for taking the time. Oh my God, Ashley, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited. So number one, because you work in the ER, which is just an incredible, um, it's an incredible place. Incredible is a big word and it's a it's a big place. So that's fitting. Um but your career spans almost decades, multiple decades now. Uh you live in Ontario. Looking back, tell us what initially drew you to emergency medicine nursing. Let's start there.

Jenn:

Yeah, I mean, I I fell into nursing first. I never once wanted to be a nurse. I never thought about being a nurse. It was never on my radar ever. Um, I ended up going into biology right after high school and went through that program for about a year, got into second year, and then failed my first half of organic chemistry. I, for the life of me, couldn't wrap my head around it. It just wasn't happening. So I kind of looked around and I'm like, well, now I'm a year behind. Like, do I really want to keep doing this? I still don't even know if I could pass the class totally. Um, so what else? And thank God one of my roommates in first year had was a nursing student, and we'd go through her textbooks and her Mosby's dictionary and look at all the really gross pictures. And you're like, oh my God, that's what I want to do. So thankfully, my university had a three-year compressed program for uh the BSCN. So swapped right into that, was able to work it at a four-year pace because I'd already had almost two years worth of credits. It was a win-win. And then with the ER, my my first job out of high school or out of high school, out of university was um a very exceedingly small rural hospital in Northwest Ontario because I'd met my husband and he lived up there and was from there. And so I was like, I'm gonna move in, I'm gonna save the town. Genius. The the hospital was so small that there was one RN for a merge. That was it. And you called the physician in when you needed them. And they were a family physician who happened to cover a merge. Looking back, so many red flags. Um, and then, you know, there was one RN for the floor with two RPNs or LVNs. Um, and the floor was maybe 14 beds total. But I mean, anything that actually was remotely ill, we sent out. Um, seeing the helicopter come down, I mean, that was a big love moment when it was like landing at the ER doors, and you're like, oh my gosh, this is so cool. But I mean, I I never thought about a merge. I it never even clicked. But because of this role, um, because there were only two RNs on at a time, you just swap. So one day shift, you'd be, you'd usually start out first day at eMERGE, and then the second day, then you'd be on the floor. Uh, and you just swap back and forth. And that's it. And that's what was the expectation, and and that was the job. So half the time I was in emerge, and I'm like, oh, I really, really like this. I like the quick in and out, I like the quickie problem solved. You know, if what I'm seeing now 70% walks into the ER, they shouldn't even be there. Um, I'm gonna say 90% of what I saw up north really shouldn't have been there, but they the townsfolk had driven around and seen which doctor was on call because everybody knew everybody's cars. My gosh. So they so they, oh, I couldn't get in to see my family doc. So they'd drive around, oh, they're on today. So then they'd come in to emerge. It was just a lovely introduction to rural nerds. It is something else. Like you, you want a MacGyve or something, that's that's gonna be the place to go for sure.

Ashley:

The skills that you learn and that you really hone in rural medicine, they are they're very eye-opening, they're incredible, and they still serve you even when you're working in, you know, bigger hospital medicine where there's more gadgets and more gizmos for for you to use. I'm so glad that you've you've talked about kind of the differences there. And I'd like to tap into that a little bit more. Because you've worked in both centers. How do those settings uh, well, I guess I should say, how did those settings shape your perspective on team culture? Because my God, when a team is two people, two people can be a team, but your team is rather small. And now you felt like a bigger team and what that's like. What's changed or what's kind of helped out with that for you?

Jenn:

Honestly, the politics. Um, you know, bullying and nursing, while it is finally being addressed and finally really coming down, um it was pervasive when I first started. And so my my first job that hospital, I um I was bullied relentlessly by my superior. Couldn't tell you why, other than I was a southerner coming up to the north. I, you know, I was marrying into the north. I don't, I don't know why she hated me so much, but man, she made my life absolutely miserable to the point of um ideation at a point. Um, but yeah, it was bad. Um, but getting out of that and realizing how bad it could be to then coming to a much larger center, a stroke center, a huge hospital system, and being surrounded by so many wonderful people, it made it that much sweeter to finally have left that town and had to have gotten out of that situation, come to the rural to come to the city, kind of quote unquote, come to the city, and go like, oh hey, this is actual medicine. This is what's actually supposed to be happening. This is what happens when you have access to a CT scanner and RT and um, you know, all these extra support services and support people. Um, holy cow, what do you mean we've got social work? What's social work? You know, it's it was uh mind-boggling to be fair. And and then the people were just so incredibly lovely that it just was such a change. And I mean, truly, they probably could have been miserable. And just because I was simply out of the fact if I wasn't up north anymore, I probably still would have been so excited, regardless, that it probably wouldn't have mattered. But the people there, they've been lifelong friends. I've I keep talking with them. I just went to, I just volunteered to do some um camp nursing with my original preceptor from that job. And we really haven't hung out for over 10 years, but like it was like we were back in the ER, it was so much fun. The options for support services and learning and people actually having your back. Um, and again, that is not to say that all rural is like that, but unfortunately, because it was so much slower, you know, if you made mistakes, they were amplified 100%. So you would get hauled into the office if you did not put extra pieces of blank paper on night shift into the charts for day shift. There were four patients. Four patients. You couldn't reach down and and grab a sheet of paper and put like that. Like you're joking. So when when I made a medication error as a new hire, it was catastrophic and I got fired, um, but was able to fight it and do lots of remediation and and come back and then worked another five years in that place. Um it just goes to show that like because there's nothing else to focus on, they they mitigate the very, very small things. So just be aware that that may be the case.

Ashley:

I think that's a really good cautionary tale. And sometimes when you're so micromanaged and you're quote unquote doing things incorrectly that really don't contribute to patient care.

Jenn:

It don't matter.

Ashley:

It makes it more stressful when you are making decisions that contribute to patient care. And I think those, you know, the environments we talk a lot with with pre-health students about your environment that you're working in. And it's one of the reasons why I love Shadowy Next because people describe these settings where the environments are just, I don't want to use the word toxic, but toxic. Oh no, um, you know, it really, like you said, it can really inhibit you from doing your job appropriately. Jen, you you mentioned bullying in healthcare. And I'm thank you so much for diving into that and giving us a really good example of what that looks like. Um, we hear a lot about burnout. I think you're really good about talking about a lot of these challenges that we're experiencing in healthcare right now. Bullying is one, burnout's another. You had an experience during COVID that was, of course, we all did, that was really challenging. Challenging for sure, right? And and you've you've basically said saying in the in the past, you've said saying yes to yourself doesn't mean saying no to others. And I'm sure that that phrase has come from an understanding and appreciating all of these challenges. Write that down for us for just a little bit. Before we hear what Jen has to say, let's pause briefly for quality questions. This is a segment on the show where we discuss potential interview questions that you might hear on your own pre-health interview. Now, this is a really great one and something that I ask myself during interviews, and that is tell me a time when you said yes to yourself. It's incredibly open-ended, but it gives you the opportunity to really talk about what you feel passionate about, or perhaps an opportunity to explain why you chose something that others might find controversial. Keep in mind that there's more interview prep, such as mock interviews and personal statement review, over on Shadowme Next.com. There you'll find amazing resources to help you as you prepare to answer your own quality questions.

Jenn:

Yeah, there's nothing like breaking to your absolute bottom, which again, I thought my bottom was working in that, you know, place up north and getting fired and fighting months to get back. Um, I thought that was bottom. And at the time, it was my bottom. Um, COVID brought a whole new layer. Uh, and it wasn't so much, it wasn't so much the medical ethical decisions. Like we, thank God, Canna, we weren't nearly to the well, we just don't have the population. So we weren't the volume that you guys were. Um, and so that kind of it took that portion of the burnout off. Um, but then it was the sleep deprivation. So I had young kids, my kids were four and five and a half at the at the time of lockdown. Daycare shut down. All of a sudden we had no access to daycares. Um, my family was um adamant that they couldn't help out because granted, they were petrified. So they they kind of shut down. Um, so they weren't able to come and help watch the kids. So all of a sudden, and my husband's also um essential, he's infection control, no less. So he um it's one of those things where it's we were both working and I was working shift work, he's Monday to Friday, eight to four. So there was a little bit of overlap where it's like I worked all night and then I have to stay up all day with the kids because you can't really let a four and five and a half year old like go without a moderate amount of supervision. You like you can't. You're you're asking for trouble, it's not gonna go well. Back in the ED if you do that hundred percent. So it's like I would stay up all night, then stay up all day, and then go back into work and stay up all night and then stay up all day. Like I was on three days, no sleep at a time. And when I tell you sleep deprivation is absolutely used as a torture method for very good reason, it is it is it is something that I had no idea contributed that much to burnout because I'd never experienced it before. You know, you have your your morning, your, you know, the new mother phase and and getting up with the kids every two hours for three to 12 months. Thank you, Elise. So, like, yes, you're out of your mind, but you got to nap in between, whereas this was like flat out. I was lucky if I got maybe a three-hour nap at work, and then maybe a one-hour nap at home once my husband came home and before I went into work. So it was fragmented at best. So the sleep deprivation, the fear, the anxiety, the you know, you you underestimate how much you take for granted as to people up top know what they're doing. When policies are changing morning to noon to night, and then again in the morning, noon to night, and changing almost hourly, you you feel that nobody, and again, nobody knew what was going on, nobody knew what was happening in the early days. So we all were just kind of trying to put it together. But that fear level of, you know, am I gonna bring this home? Am I gonna be put on event? Am I gonna survive this? Am I gonna bring it home to my kids? Am I gonna am I gonna infect some other family member? Or am I gonna infect another patient? Like that was what was running around our heads a lot. Um, so that, you know, that mixed with the anxiety, mixed with the fear, mixed with the sleep deprivation, just completely bottomed out. So when it came to the point of, you know, we finally got a little bit of daycare back, um, I was very adamant, like, I need sleep. And and, you know, thank God there were therapists who were willing to volunteer their time. And I probably racked up like five grand in free therapy. I was like, I'm allowed to say I need to sleep. That's that's something that I'm allowed to say. So let me start taking that route and putting myself first. And, you know, it wasn't until August 2020 that I'm like, no, I I seriously need to put myself first. Like, I do need to go on med anti uh and like antidepressants. I'd never been on antidepressants before. I need to go to therapy, I need to take time off, I need to swap my job. I went to PACU for a period of time uh for about a year. Um, I, you know, I needed to swap a whole bunch of things around to kind of start to make things work. And I was like, well, that's what needs to happen because I can't do it all. And and I we're not even gonna dive into, you know, we're expected to do it at all and smile and make dinner. Um, so like we're not even gonna go down that road. But the whole point of me saying, I am it's my happiness is only my job, and it's nobody else's job to focus on me or my happiness. It's nice if my husband, you know, understood that and put that first. Great. But he also was struggling really, really hard with COVID, as as we all were. So it's like, no, I I very need to put myself first. And so doing so um led to, oh, okay, like I can I can play with my career a little bit, I can swap jobs, I can go part-time, I can then pick up a little bit of agency work on the side, which two shifts of agency in two weeks is full-time wages versus six shifts of my of my regular gig. So I'm like, oh, okay, I can kind of play with that. And there's money to be made in flexibility and last minute notice. And and travel nursing doesn't mean, doesn't have to mean traveling, you know, hours and hours. I I work within a one-hour radius of my home. So I can go to work that night and come home that morning. It's there's options, but you do have to be very mindful of putting yourself first because nobody else is gonna.

Ashley:

I love that. And I love how you've described that putting yourself first doesn't necessarily mean stepping away from your career. And it might, it might, but for you, you know, you shifted, you went to another portion of the hospital, you you maybe took different hours, you you you took on places at a different hospital completely. You know, you just just just the ability to be flexible in nursing, I think is one of the biggest gifts about nursing. And um, and there are really cool opportunities as well. I always think that travel nursing and getting to meet people and do something new, um, it really does, it sounds very exciting. Let's shift a little bit because something that you feel very passionate about and and something I'm excited to talk about is trusting your gut. And uh we hear about all this in medicine on TV all the time. Like you see Dr. House and he has a gut feeling and he chases it down and it's right. Okay, but but in medicine, we don't we don't hear about this a lot. We always hear about the the evidence-based medicine and the data and the histories and all this. Tell me about trusting your gut. What does that look like in medicine and what does that look like in nursing too?

Jenn:

Yeah, I mean, we do it. I mean, we as women, we do it intuitively. You know, we've been doing it since we're 12 plus, you know, you see a guy on the street, your your gut, you're just like, oh, I don't know about that person. I don't know about the situation. I'm gonna pull myself out. That's it's more related to self-preservation at that point, which we have been doing for ages. So we know that feeling, but we don't know how to use it within medicine or healthcare uh or even office settings. Like we just we don't know how to do it. So within nursing, I first figured out I was doing it at triage. Like I just thought I was playing a game at triage where I would start to guess what people were coming in with. I mean, if they're holding their chest or they're holding their abdomen, you could, okay, I can kind of understand where you're coming from. But if somebody comes in and they've kind of got vague complaints and you're like, I'm missing more to this story. Like somebody comes in, they've fallen, things have gotten inserted in places. Um, and you know you're missing 90% of the story because people are embarrassed. They don't want to tell you, they don't, they think that this is a one-off, that this never happens. Happens all the time. Um, PSA, please use flared bases if you're going to insert anything into your rectum. Please and thank you. Love your local URL. Very much. Please trust me on this one. You'll thank me later. Um, so when people come in and the story is I've fallen down 10 stairs naked, fallen onto a light bulb, and the light bulb is still intact. No, the physics alone do not make that plausible. So then it's getting to the point of, you know, I understand that's what you're saying, but like, you know, this happens all the time. This is not even the first time today I've seen this. You know, I just need to know what what's it made of, how long has it been in there? Are you having any rectal bleeding? Are you having any pain, fevers? Just let me start from there. And then I could care less about what it is and whatever else. I don't care. I just want to make sure that I'm not missing enough as the triage nurse that I'm potentially missing a perforated bowel. And now you're gonna sit in my waiting room for six hours and have you code in my waiting room or bleed out or something. Worst nightmare ever. Um, so like getting people comfortable to the point of like, yes, you know, you it's okay. Just tell me, just tell me what it's made of. And am I worried about like sharp jagged edges in said spot said safe space, please. But you know, you would kind of get to a point where you could figure out people before they really even got into triage. You go, okay, like I wonder, okay, you're short of breath and you're kind of, and again, you you can pick up a lot by just looking and just listening without even talking to somebody. You can really pick up or at least get a really good sense of are you sick, not sick, really sick? And you know, are they pink, warm, and dry? So, you know, are there is their skin pink, warm and dry, or is it pale, gray, um, green, um, diaphoretic, and and they're sweating buckets and um and pink or and and cold, you know, like do they look like they're death on a stick? Um, those and it doesn't matter what the story is at that point, you're just going, no, and I'm just gonna bring you right back because I don't even need your vitals. Your vitals could have been pristine, just the physical look of you, your body is shutting down and you're it's compensating with vitals for the moment, but it's not going to for long. So trusting that gut instinct of like, holy crap, something's wrong. Let's let's move you and let's let's do that quickly, um, has been, you know, I just thought I was good at my job. Like that's what I thought that was. And, you know, thank God that there was a teacher in fourth year who like one time off-handedly mentioned trust your gut. And then she was off talking about some other topic. And I'm like, okay. So when it came to, you know, that big center and seeing 80 to 100 people in 12 hours, you got really good at like what sick, not sick, really sick looked like. And then you could follow people through their journeys. And and when I'd play and and be like, oh, I wonder if this is a pancreatitis, oh, I wonder if this is an appendix, oh, I wonder if it's a PE, or I wonder if it's a fluid overload, like I wonder what's causing all this. And then you can kind of follow them through their your journey. And at the end, when you get to go, I called that. I called that, and that's I'm gonna take that win. Cause again, you have to take the wins. Please take the smallest of wins because the small wins are actually go what's gonna make a career. Um, but it's just when you finally get that validation that, okay, this is what's happening, um, you know, it's staggering. And it can feel like a couple of different things. It can feel like a heaviness in your gut, it can feel kind of like a little bit of chest pain all of a sudden, just like a heaviness. You can be at triage and questions pop into your head when they wouldn't be typical questions that you'd ask at triage. When I'm suddenly asking about your death plans um of a very young guy who's got pancreatic cancer, that's not something I ask at triage. Like, you know, I'm not asking about how your wife's coping and and what are you thinking and what are your plans and all this kind of stuff. I don't have time to go into that usually. But for that patient, I went on that tangent after I had finished triage. And he and I had a really decent five to seven minute conversation about death cafes and and places where people can talk about death openly without um stigma or or any of that kind of thing. And I think I provided him more relief with that conversation than the pain relief he was actually seeking. Um, and again, it was very minor pain relief that was just kind of that's what he was looking for. But um that made a difference. And so sometimes nursing isn't quite what you think it's gonna look like on the day-to-day, especially when you start just kind of going with it and and trusting your gut.

Ashley:

I think that is such an incredible story. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a big loop and I'm gonna tie this around. But it's trusting your gut uh largely comes from experience. And we've already mentioned you've been doing this for a really long time. And I think, I think even as a young clinician, as a young provider, you can have a gut instinct, but really to have an established gut instinct, it comes from seeing things. And you wrote on your website that 30 to 60 percent of new graduate nurses leave the profession with entire. Which is which is just so disappointing to me when I hear about these incredible stories and situations that happen because of that gut that you've developed over the course of time. So here's the big loop you have created this incredible system to help reduce those numbers and to help people establish this gut instinct and then be able to share their own stories. Um, one of these, well, you have this incredible website and you offer amazing resources there with mentorship and an opportunity to work with and learn from you. But you have a book called Nursing Intuition, How to Trust Your Gut, Save Your Sanity, and Survive Your Career. It's an incredible opportunity for students to really understand and for nurses to have the support. So thank you for writing that. What would you hope that people are taking away from the pages of this book that you have worked so hard on?

Jenn:

Um, that we all learn from stories better than we do from classrooms. If somebody is telling you a story, please listen. They that story has stuck for a reason. There is a lesson in it, even though it might just seem like a funny, ha ha, you know, goofy kind of story at 3 a.m., there is always more to that story and there's more, there's always a lesson within it. So please listen to other stories because that's half the fun of nursing is bonding over our very shared experiences that has spanned, you know, it's 17 years at this point with me. But like we all have things that if you can learn from my mistakes and please do, I'm really hoping that you don't make them yourself. Like you can save yourself that agony and and stress and all that kind of stuff. I'm hoping you can learn from it from me. But at the same time, like the science is behind nursing intuition. So just in the last, I think eight months alone, there's been, I think, 1,300 papers, peer-reviewed, evidence-based, scholarly-based papers that have been published with some form of um based on nursing intuition, specifically nursing intuition. And there's also the statistic that um even if you so say you're the new nurse, you have you think that something's wrong with your patient, you go get the doctor, the doctor has another touch point on your patient. Even if you're wrong and the doc nothing changes, there's no new orders, nothing new happens, that patient outcome still improves. So even if you're wrong, you're still advocating for your patient, you're still improving your patient outcomes, even when nothing changes. But again, had you said, okay, I think something's wrong, doctor comes in, you're right. You've now saved yourself a ton of grief, a ton of stress and worry and anxiety, and not potentially not having that patient lost, potentially not bringing having to carry that patient with you, because you will carry patients with you. If you can decrease it by one or five or ten, you know, that that again builds into having resilience because now you're not having to carry those patients and their stories with you as negative stories. Now it's a learning story. Hey, I had this patient, things weren't going well. I thought that maybe I should just call the doc, call the doc something they came in, went, holy cow, we've missed this entirely. We're changing course, and now I've saved that patient. We don't get saved that often, and usually not in a way that you can actually come back to. So when you get those moments, like take them, take them for all they're worth because the bad days will overshadow the good for the simple fact of we're so hard on ourselves. Um, so just take it with a grain of salt, trust your gut. If nothing else, ask somebody else, you know, ask. A coworker, ask your charge nurse, but voice it. Please just voice it.

Ashley:

Absolutely incredible. Jen, you're amazing. Tell us your website. Tell us where we can find you and how we can connect with you and get our hands on these great resources.

Jenn:

Yeah.ca. My TikTok and Instagram is at ernurse.genj-e-n-n and LinkedIn, where I'm actually probably the most active, um, is Jennifer Johnson B-S-C-N-R-N. Don't come for me. There's too many Jennifer Johnsons. So that's where you can find me. You can also email me at Jenj-EN N at NurseJenj-EN dot C A.

Ashley:

You are incredible, Jen. Thank you so much for sharing your story, for developing these incredible resources, and for joining us on Shadow Me Next. Thank you so much. Thank you so very much for listening to this episode of Shadow Me Next. If you liked this episode or if you think it could be useful for a friend, please subscribe and invite them to join us next Monday. As always, if you have any questions, let me know on Facebook or Instagram. Access you want, stories you need, you're always invited to Shadow Me Next.

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Ashley Love

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