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From ICU To Helicopter: A Nurse’s 46-Year Fight To Prevent Harm | Dr. Julie Siemers, DNP

• Ashley Love • Season 1 • Episode 56

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A 97% pulse ox can lull anyone into a false sense of safety, until ventilation fails and the patient quietly slips into danger. That tension between what looks stable and what is actually happening runs through our conversation with Dr. Julie Siemers, whose 46 years in nursing span ICU, trauma, helicopter medicine, academia, and leadership. We explore the moments that forged her commitment to advocacy (like the 90‑year‑old man without a family voice) and unpack why preventable harm is not just tragic, but systemic and solvable.

We walk through failure to rescue in plain language: failure to recognize, failure to act, and failure to communicate. Julie shares her “seven pillars” that anchor clinical judgment: vital signs, neuro assessment, labs and critical values, hydration and intake/output, diagnostics, communication, and escalation, showing how small signals add up hours before a crash. We dig into oxygenation versus ventilation, why respiratory rate is an early warning sign, and how opioids and sleep apnea can create a perfect storm, even when SpO2 looks good.

Culture matters as much as protocols. From air medical missions where airway and safety beat speed, to interprofessional exercises where authority gradients surface early, Julie argues that respect, clarity, and closed‑loop communication are life‑saving tools. We talk about simulation that builds confidence under pressure, Lifebeat Solutions focused courses that retrain judgment in one‑hour bites, and the readiness gap across professions that puts patients at risk.

Families are part of the safety team. You’ll learn how to ask sharper questions, use CUS words (Concerned, Uncomfortable, Safety issue), work the chain of command, and even choose safer hospitals with public safety grades. It’s a practical, human roadmap for anyone who wants to catch deterioration sooner, speak up with impact, and make care safer shift by shift, conversation by conversation.


To learn more, please visit: drjuliesiemers.com

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Ashley Love:

Hello and welcome to Shadow Me Next, a podcast where I take you into and behind the scenes of the medical world to provide you with a deeper understanding of the human side of medicine. I'm Ashley, a physician assistant, medical editor, clinical preceptor, and the creator of Shadow Me Next. It is my pleasure to introduce you to incredible members of the healthcare field and uncover their unique stories, the joys and challenges they face, and what drives them in their careers. It's access you want and stories you need. Whether you're a pre-health student or simply curious about the healthcare field, I invite you to join me as we take a conversational and personal look into the lives and minds of leaders in medicine. I don't want you to miss a single one of these conversations. So make sure that you subscribe to this podcast, which will automatically notify you when new episodes are dropped. And follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Shadow Me Next, where we will review highlights from this conversation and where I'll give you sneak previews of our upcoming guests. I'd like to introduce you to Julie Seymours. Julie has spent 46 years in nursing, ICU, trauma, flight medicine, academia, leadership, and every chapter of her story points back to one theme. Patient safety isn't just a clinical skill, it's a moral responsibility. In this conversation, she shares the moments that shaped her, like the 90-year-old man in the ICU who had no family to speak for him, and how that experience ignited her life's work in communication and advocacy. Or the decades she spent on a helicopter treating critically ill patients with nothing but her training, her instincts, and the kind of calm you only earn from years of showing up when it matters most. Julie talks candidly about the culture of healthcare, the authority gradients, the missed cues, the preventable harm, and how she transformed those frustrations into solutions. Her book, her patient safety app, and life beat solutions, a training company reteaching the fundamentals that actually keep patients alive. This episode is about redefining readiness, honoring intuition, and making sure that no patient ever falls through the cracks. Please keep in mind that the content of this podcast is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as professional medical advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the host and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. This is Shadow Me Next with Dr. Julie Seymours. Dr. Julie Seymours, thank you so much for joining us today on Shadow Me Next. I cannot wait to chat with you.

Dr. Julie Siemers:

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk to your audience.

Ashley Love:

I cannot believe that you have been working in nursing for 46 years. Have you enjoyed it? Do you enjoy what you I love it? Have you felt like you've had moments where you maybe you maybe didn't love it so much, or has it just always been a really steady journey up to what you're doing now, which we're going to talk about? And it's just absolutely incredible.

Dr. Julie Siemers:

Yeah, I honestly have had times where I thought, I can't do this. And that would just be, I'll give you an example. When I was working in the ICU, moral integrity to me and ethical dilemmas are really a challenge in healthcare in the US, anyway. What I found. Um, I had a 90-year-old little grandpa who had no family, and he his body was failing. And he was in the ICU, and the doctors wanted to start him on dialysis. And I'm like, I wanted to say, are you crazy? He's suffering. Why would we extend his suffering? And I wanted to say, too, to that doctor, would you do the same thing if that was your dad? Right. You know, so then when you find yourself in those situations, if you can't resolve it, that's what I love about nursing, is you can go do something else. Go work in a different department, which I did.

Ashley Love:

Now, Dr. Seymours and I did not get a chance to discuss a quality question, which is an interview question that our guest shares to help you prepare for your own pre-health interview. But something Dr. Seymours said could be crafted into a fantastic quality question. Healthcare isn't just about knowledge. It's about noticing something subtle and choosing not to ignore it. So here's your question. Ask me about a time when you sensed something wasn't right, either in a patient, in a system, or in a situation. And what did you do about it? How did that moment shape the way you advocate for others? Your answer tells us who you are when it matters most. Think about the situation. Write it down. You'll definitely use this again. Keep in mind that there's more interview prep, such as mock interviews and personal statement review, over on Shadowme Next.com. There you'll find amazing resources to help you as you prepare to answer your own quality questions. You did, you did. And we're going to talk about that absolutely. It's it's so interesting to me though, because that one story that you've described, it kind of sets the tone for what you have spent recently so much of your time doing, which is improving communication between patients' families and the healthcare team, right? And that was just a perfect example of that man had nobody to speak for him, you were able to step into that role. And um, and it just highlights how and why families of patients, people who care about our patients are so important in that healthcare team model.

Dr. Julie Siemers:

They truly are because the joint commission tells us that 70% of patient harm events are due to communication breakdown. So when we look at the dynamics of communication, as I talked about in my TEDx talk, it's just as much responsibility on the family and the patient and loved ones to create that bridge with the healthcare team to really ensure that the best care is given to that patient. You know, yes, the families don't have medical knowledge, but they have intimate knowledge of that person and the nuances of, hey, something's not quite right with my mom. We need to explore this and not taking no for an answer.

Ashley Love:

Absolutely. And in your 46 years working in nursing, I'm sure you have seen unfortunately many of those situations. Let's go back. Um, I know your mother was who encouraged you to go into nursing at first. And we can very much thank your mom for the amount of time that you have dedicated to this incredible specialty. And at this point, with your resources, the number of lives you have probably saved because of what you're educating people on. Um, but let's step way back. You worked as a bedside nurse in the ICU in critical care and in trauma as well. Those are high stakes, high pressure environments. Can you tell us a little bit, paint a picture for us about what that part of your life looked like?

Dr. Julie Siemers:

Yeah, the first 10 years actually in the hospital, I worked um in med surge units. So on the oncology unit and the cardiac step down unit. And I know a lot of nurses when they graduate and have these um dreams to go work in critical care. I don't encourage that because the foundation of how to prioritize, how to assess, how to really juggle all the tasks and not just the tasks, but learn to apply the knowledge, the critical thinking, the clinical judgment is so important. Pardon me. So I did that for 10 years before I ever went into the ICU, and I'm so glad that I did because I had a foundation. I was able to say, something's not quite right here, uh, Dr. Jones, you really need to come and see this patient.

Ashley Love:

I would like to talk about the team model, and we are going to talk about that, especially when it comes to patients. But in those situations, and and you know, I think about our ICU nurses, and you guys are just gods in my book. I mean, the amount of knowledge that you have, the way you advocate for your patients, the things that you see that other members of the healthcare team don't. Did you find that it was always an easy or a productive conversation with the physicians that you were working with, the other members of the healthcare team? Or did you run into some challenges there?

Dr. Julie Siemers:

Oh, definitely some challenges. We still operate in an authority gradient with the doctor on the top of that pedestal. And don't get me wrong, I admire their dedication and 12 years of medical school and all that. But when the ego gets in the way of listening, that's when patient harm can happen. You know, when I was teaching at Turo University back in Las Vegas, we had it was a health sciences university. So we got together twice a year and did interprofessional exercises with all of the schools. So the DOs, the Doctor of Osteopathic students, um, the BSN students that I was teaching, um, the PT, physical therapy, the OT. And it was really interesting in doing these exercises. The faculty were monitoring and engaging and whatever. And even in those student days, the DO students still, oh, we had PAs too, which were awesome. The DO students already had started with the bossy, I'm, you know, mentality. And I'm like, dude, that nurse is gonna cover your butt and save you, but you can't treat each other like that. The nurses at the bedside, the eyes and the ears, and when they tell you something's wrong, you need to listen.

Ashley Love:

Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Julie Siemers:

Yeah, a culture that we need to shift.

Ashley Love:

That's so true. And it's, you know, it's I think a lot of it has to do with just having conversations like this, right? And um, stereotypes are stereotypes are valid sometimes, but they're not valid for every single person in every single role. So having that communication open and and really talking to the people that you are working with is so important. On the past episode just recently, we talked about even our our front desk personnel. For example, if you work in a clinic, that's their that's the patient's first experience. If it's soured as soon as they walk in the door, how good do you think your appointment is gonna go with them once they get into the room? You know, so it's um it's it's a machine, it's not a well-oiled machine, it is a machine. And we're gonna talk about that machine here in a little bit. But I do want to step back and talk about another machine that you worked on, which is a helicopter. For 10 years, I cannot possibly fathom how uh, number one, how exciting, how thrilling, but also how stressful that was. And you you did it for 10 years, is that correct?

Dr. Julie Siemers:

Yeah, and you know, I had enough ER um trauma ICU experience to feel pretty comfortable in that role, meaning I felt as prepared as I was ever gonna be. But there was definitely situations, what we call the pucker factor. Yeah. Because on the helicopter, you might not be able to get a hold of the physician on the radio. Number one, we had protocols, but not everybody falls into, you know, the box of here's what you do in this situation. So you had to be able to think really quickly and utilize the skill set that you'd already learned with clinical judgment and application of past experiences. Um, but yeah, what I found is being able to expand my scope of practice was also a challenge because I figured out by now I'm a lifelong learner. And I, if I feel bored, I need to move on and do something else.

Ashley Love:

Absolutely, absolutely. Um, which, yeah, and I'll in a helicopter, um, well, you can't move on to anything. Uh you're stuck in how big is it? I it's quite small, isn't it?

Dr. Julie Siemers:

Like, glue-in was pretty big, and I had some paramedic partners that were six foot tall, and that aircraft culminated better. Um, and then we eventually moved over into a smaller aircraft. And yeah, you've got your knees, you know, kind of close to you. And um, we learned that what we had to do on the ground, yes, time is of the essence to get that patient to a higher level of care. But when you're on the ground scooping this patient and you don't have an airway and you've got a Glasgow coma scale of five, six, seven, eight, you know you need the airway before you get in the air. Because the other thing that was a little bit surprising to me is safety first. So all eyes out the window on landing and takeoff. And so it doesn't matter if you're doing CPR, you need to stop and look out the window for any obstacles like wires or you know, any of those things. Because if that happens, nobody lives. And that was an adjustment.

Ashley Love:

Yeah, I would imagine so. It's not often you have to think about the lives of the people that you're working with, not just the person that you're caring for at that moment. So yeah, I think it's it's a very interesting branch of medicine, something that a lot of people right now are talking about. And um, and obviously you can have paramedics that are on helicopters, you can have um obviously nurses. Uh and I would imagine at some point you've had PAs, maybe maybe doctors work very infrequently on the helicopter with you as well.

Dr. Julie Siemers:

Usually it was our medical director that would come do a ride with us, um, because he liked to stay in touch with the reality of what the job was, which I love. Um I've always director. Yeah, I've always believed in boots on the ground, meaning whatever level of nursing I've ever worked is if you've got leadership that haven't done or aren't in touch with, there's decisions that are made sometimes that aren't in the best interest. And so I try to do that myself and I really um admire people that have that same mindset.

Ashley Love:

Incredible. You mentioned safety. Obviously, we were talking about hitting wires, but there's something else we definitely need to bring up, and that is the fact that patient harm happens. And this is a really challenging conversation, something that as clinicians, especially I think all of us we like to pretend doesn't happen. But as you've already mentioned, it happens a lot. Um, and and you've said something previously that it's patient harm isn't just tragic, it's systemic. Tell me a little bit about what you've discovered about patient harm and what you're doing to fix it right now.

Dr. Julie Siemers:

And I would definitely say preventable. Medical mistakes have been quoted out in the literature as the third leading cause of death, which when I started my research back in 2009 for my master's and then my doctoral project, and I discovered that fact, I was shocked. I'd already been a nurse 30 years. So how did I not know this? And why don't we talk about it? Why isn't it the number one priority for any patient that we're caring for in healthcare? You know, and then I started peeling back the layers and found it was communication issues, it was diagnostic issues. And then what I actually did my master's thesis and my DMP project on was failure to rescue. Now, even people in healthcare aren't aware of what that is, although it's found in the literature for decades, and it's failing to recognize those early signs of patient deterioration. That again, in the research, they tell us six to 24 hours prior to an unplanned cardiac arrest. Now, that is time in my book. It's just, I don't believe we've had this cluster, what I call the pillars of patient safety, that we're teaching that nurses and healthcare providers need to look at. And so each of those pillars are vital science. And it's not just writing down numbers, but what does it actually mean? It's the body telling us something's going on, it's neurological assessment, it's laboratory, critical values, it's hydration, both urine output and in, you know, fluids in. So it really isn't rocket science. So when you boil it down to if you as a nurse or healthcare provider would look at these seven pillars, communication included in there, then we're bound to close that gap of how many patients suffer harm in the healthcare system.

Ashley Love:

Seven things. I mean, when you break it down like that, it doesn't seem astronomical. Um, I it's you know, it's why algorithms work so well in medicine, I think. It's just it is a checklist, but it's more than just a checklist, right? They're actually looking not just at the number saying, you know, red or green, good or bad. They're using that as part of the rest of these six other elements to make decisions. And then what's the next step? What do they do with that decision? They have to communicate with everybody.

Dr. Julie Siemers:

Yeah, the three components of failure to rescue is failure to recognize, failure to act, and then failure to communicate. So when we can close those gaps, you know, and part of the communication, especially for newer nurses, is the fear, like we talked about earlier, of calling the doctor. You know, unfortunately, in some of the schools where I've worked, what we do in simulation lab is kind of berate, as doctors sometimes will do, two o'clock in the morning. Okay, if you're telling me that the white count's elevated, what's their temperature, you know, and on all this data? And the nurse will be like, uh, and then they're totally intimidated.

Ashley Love:

I'm so glad you brought up Simwa because I had heard you mention this um, I think in another episode. And I thought it was it was so interesting. Um, and it's a part of education that I think a lot of pre-health students don't necessarily realize is even a part of education, or maybe they do and they don't quite know what it's about. Tell me about these simulation labs. Um, is it just learning how to listen to somebody's heart with a stethoscope, or is it more? And and obviously you've hinted that yes, perhaps we do prepare you for some real-world conversations that you're having.

Dr. Julie Siemers:

Yeah, so we would grade, you know, we start fundamental with the new students. How, you know, they're intimidated to even have a conversation, which I think is the newer generation. They just really are challenged as with conversations because they're used to texting everything. So, you know, that's the big part of number one, teaching students how to have a conversation. Good morning, Mr. Smith. How are you feeling today? Did you sleep well? How's your pain level? You know, those basics they really uh struggle with. But then we advance the scenarios as the students get more learning. Um, they go out to clinicals and they apply what they've learned. But the simulation lab is the first place where they can listen to heart sounds, listen to breast sounds, but really more important, they can pull the pieces together of what's going on with that patient. What's their diagnosis? Are they diabetic? Were they admitted with heart failure? You know, was their diagnosis pneumonia? And you, when you have the diagnosis, then you can teach them, okay, if it's pneumonia, what are their breast sounds? You know, how does that compare to what they were earlier or what the previous shift documented? And then it really is the application of knowledge. So, yes, it is here's how you stick an IV or place an IV into a mannequin so you can do it on a real person. But it's like, why are we giving fluids? And are we given the right kinds of fluids? And so it's scenarios that really make them think and allows them the time to think because when they get out there taking care of real patients, some things move very, very quickly. And they gotta be on their toes.

Ashley Love:

Yeah, yeah. I'm thinking of all of the codes that we learned how to run in PA school. And you're not joking when you say fast. And and here's the really interesting thing if you're listening and you're thinking, well, this sounds extremely stressful. And what do you mean that I have to apply the knowledge that I have and then actually use it to formulate a plan and then act on that plan? That is what makes us irreplaceable in medicine, is the fact that we are not robots, right? We have this ability to combine all of these different elements that perhaps are not on the so-called algorithm. Or we can look at something that a computer might miss and we can say, you know what, I think this part is important, or I have this bit of information that I recall that is definitely applicable here. And that is the human element of medicine. And that is what we are encouraging you to use while you're in school, really to develop first and then to develop the confidence in using. And we're gonna talk about confidence because I think you've created a program that that combines all of these elements and really gives you the ability to say, I have this tool set, I can use this tool set, I'm gonna use this tool set. Um, and that is Life Beat Solutions. This is a training and development company that you have founded that is focused on transforming how healthcare teams learn, communicate, and protect patients, which is just I have goosebumps thinking about this. Tell me a little bit more about Life Beat Solutions and um and the way that you've seen it succeed.

Dr. Julie Siemers:

I developed that. I started with just 10 courses, the two on what is failure to rescue, and then the courses supporting that with the pillars of safety. And I did that because I know as nursing schools, most of them are accelerated, including the one I'm still teaching at or running the school. And there's only so much time the students can absorb. And there's many times they have to hear things a couple of times. When I read several articles over the last couple of decades about nurses being safe and prepared for practice, it has fallen from 35% of new grads with a nursing license in 2006 were considered safe and practice ready. Um, and then a decade later it fell to 23%. And in 2021, it fell to 9%. What? So if you couple that new nurses aren't are are getting out of school and passing the NCLEX and getting their license and they aren't ready and prepared for practice. I look at my own, you know, years in nursing, and I when I've gone to a new unit or a new place to work, I've always had role models and preceptors and and teachers. Well, nurses aren't staying in the profession anymore. You know, they've got a couple of years and they go do something else, or they'd leave the bedside. And so those role models aren't there anymore to teach. So that's why I created, and then it just grew into 35 courses for the fundamentals of clinical judgment, of knowledge application, because I'll tell you, there's research out there too that says new healthcare providers, it's not just nurses, aren't ready for practice. I think the ECRI organization came out with that top number one patient safety concern of the top 10 in 2024 was um providers, healthcare providers not being ready for practice. And so that would include, you know, all the other, you know, PAs and DOs and everything too. And one of the top fears of nurses is fear of harming a patient, fear that they won't be able to handle the workload, and fear that they'll make a mistake and not keep up with the demands of a 12-hour shift. And so I built these into one-hour courses where you can take it on your own time, you can pick one that you're not sure about. Let's just say it's vital signs. Why are vital signs important? And learning that respiratory rate is the single most critical, earliest indicator of patient deterioration. And then we learn that 80% of nurses don't even count the respiratory rate because they think it's just a number, but it isn't. It's the earliest indicator. So learning things like that, you won't skip and take shortcuts to critical tasks or thinking clinical judgment when you're caring for patients.

Ashley Love:

Incredible. Julie, is this who is this course for? Is this just for nurses or does it have benefit for other members of the healthcare team as well?

Dr. Julie Siemers:

I slanted it to nurses because that's my background in education, but it really, I think, applies to any healthcare provider that wants to shore up their conceptual and foundational knowledge. For example, I did a year and a half stint of selling medical devices and I had pulse oximetry as well as capnography. And so those machines apply to any department in the hospital, whether it's NICIU or CAFLAB or ICU or MedSurge. And I was so surprised at how many nurses didn't really understand the concept of oxygenation versus ventilation, which is why mistakes happen, such as having a patient on a PCA pump after surgery, on a Pulse Ox, and not counting their respirations. I can't tell you how many stories are out there. And I talk about a couple of them in my book, um, of not counting respiratory rate and assuming the patient is sleeping because their O2 sats are 97% and they're stable. Well, the CO2 goes up, which then causes lower respiratory rate and eventually apnea. But the nurses really didn't understand, oh, or another example with obstructive sleep apnea is actually a breathing problem, not a sleep problem. But when you combine opioids with OSA, you've got a critical disaster. And of course, there's stories out there on that too. So, yes, I think it really applies to everyone in the healthcare taking care of patients.

Ashley Love:

Something that I counsel students on so often, uh, especially in the educational sector, is how what we learn in school and what we see in practice is not always perfectly congruent, right? And that's just standardized testing versus clinical practice. There is a little bit of not a disconnect, but just there's a flexibility there, I think. I'm so glad you mentioned this book because that's where I was going next. And in your book, which is surviving your hospital stay, that's the title, fantastic title. Um, one of the things I think you're trying to address in your book is that nurses don't even practice what you're teaching in nursing school right now. And this book, um, which is what makes it so incredible, is not only geared towards nurses and of course any member of the healthcare team, but also the patients, the lay people. You're educating everyone on this. Tell us uh just a little bit more about that, why it's so important.

Dr. Julie Siemers:

Yeah, the book came out a couple of years ago. Um, and I really was inspired to write it because of having all these patient-family interactions and knowing that they want to help, they want to be a part of the care team for their loved one. The biggest challenge, I think, is for patients and families learning to speak up because they feel like they don't know anything. They feel like, you know, the doctors got all this schooling and experience, and the nurse does too. And who am I to ask questions? But I want to reframe that and say, who are you not to? Because, you know, in the three stories, I don't believe I included all of those in my book, uh, but the three stories I gave on my TEDx talk was patients and families, you know, the patients were deteriorating and the families did speak up, but part of that was not knowing the chain of command either. So when you're dismissed by the bedside nurse or the charge nurse, there is that chain of command that you can use. You know, the house supervisor, the chief of medical staff, the hospital administrator who's on call, even holidays, nights, and weekends. And so really empowering patients and their families to understand even just the basic, what is informed consent? Why does the doctor need to initial my right knee if that's where I'm having surgery? Um, you know, all of those things that are foreign, because hospitals are like foreign language, foreign country, right? We even speak that in lingos, they don't but to really helping them feel better. And one thing I include in that book too, which I think is most people don't know either, is how to pick the safest hospital in your area. Go on hospitalsafetygrade.org, put in your zip code, and you can find if the hospital you plan on having surgery at is an A, B, C, D, or F. I can promise you, I will never go to a D or F-rated hospital myself. The data shows us that 91% more harm happens in a D or F-rated hospital as compared to an A, B, or C. So things like that tips that I think are just super helpful.

Ashley Love:

It's an incredible resource, not just for patients, but for clinicians as well. If this is something you're interested in, please definitely check out Dr. Seymours' resources. They are so amazing. I'm so excited to talk about them. You can find them at drjulieseimers.com. That's D-R J-U-L-I-E-S-I-E-M-E-R-S dot com. She has links to these courses, which are incredible for students, whether you're pre-health, pre-PA, pre-nursing, pre-MD. It at least opens the door to some of these conversations that we're going to have with our health care with our healthcare team. Patient safety app for patients and families. How how cool is this? And then of course it goes hand in hand with the free patient safety guide. Dr. Seamers, what will we find in these guides and in this app?

Dr. Julie Siemers:

I took the chapters in the book and kind of condensed them. They don't have the stories in the app with the learning modules, but they're videos and they really review the top things you need to know. So for people on the go, it's easy if you're sitting in the waiting room with dad in the ER, you know, you can pull out, you know, what do I want to learn from this or what would be a good? And there's tons of guides in that book or in the app too. So what are the what are some sample questions of how you should phrase something when you're concerned? The cuss words.

Ashley Love:

Amazing. Yes, amazing.

Dr. Julie Siemers:

Yep. The cuss words, concerned, uncomfortable, scared, or a safety issue. And how can you say that politely, but be persistent in getting your concerns heard?

Ashley Love:

I it's I'm speechless. It is, it is incredible. This this gift that you have given patients to be able to utilize their own voice and employ their own um their own knowledge. And like you said, it might not be medical knowledge, but that's not what the nurses and the doctors need. They don't need your medical knowledge. They need your knowledge of this patient, of this person. So absolutely incredible. I will link everything in the show notes below. Dr. Seymours, thank you so much for joining us today on Shadow Me Next.

Dr. Julie Siemers:

You're so welcome. I hope your audience learned a thing or two that will help them in their journey, whatever that may be. It is a blessing to be able to impact lives, and I will continue that till my last breath.

Ashley Love:

Amazing. I don't doubt it. Thank you so very much for listening to this episode of Shadow Me Next. If you liked this episode, or if you think it could be useful for a friend, please subscribe and invite them to join us next Monday. As always, if you have any questions, let me know on Facebook or Instagram. Access you want, stories you need, you're always invited to Shadow Me Next.

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