The Boldest Mortgage Reforms in a Decade!

Are you still concerned about housing affordability? Still on the fence debating home ownership? Still dreaming of owning your first home or considering investing in pre-construction properties?

This is the episode you can't afford to miss! 🎙️

On December 15th, the Canadian Federal Government is unveiling transformative mortgage reforms designed to make homeownership more accessible than ever. 

We'll break down what this means for buyers, investors, and the real estate market at large.

Joining us is Nicole Farrugia, Founder and Mortgage Broker at Mortgage Ease; Nicole is recognized by Canadian Mortgage Professionals as "2024 Women of Influence". 

Nicole brings her expertise to discuss how these changes could impact your journey toward owning a home or growing your investment portfolio.

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Transcript

I feel like we're getting to a point where there's light at the end of the tunnel there has been a lot of bus what does this really mean I'm going to use the word Obsession when it comes to rates right now you can never time the market will this brid the Gap I want to hug you for saying that so welcome to the Stellar talk show it's your platform powered by experts insights we're here to explore the questions and topics that matters most to you whether it's achieving home ownership investing or elevating your lifestyle let us know what you want to hear and we bring industrial experts to deep and provide the answers you deserve thank you for tuning in don't forget to share this podcast with anyone who could benefit from these valuable insights let's dive in and Elevate together hi and welcome to Stella talk show it's your platform powered by experts insights today we are joined with Nicole fuia who's the founder and the mortgage broker at mortgage East with the wine group and also recognized by the Canadian mortgage professional as 2024 woman of influence welcome to the show thank you for having me in that warm introduction Stella you're most welcome Nicole is joining us today to go through a lot of topics that's the changes coming up in the market and what does that mean for you but before that let's talk a little bit about yourself sure so I've uh been a mortgage broker for several years now uh prior to my years in finance I was actually in legal for aging myself now but about 18 years so I actually fell into this industry um but I absolutely love it and you know especially over the last couple years we've seen a lot of challenging times for people so um it's really nice cuz I feel like we're getting to a point where there's I'm going to say light at the end of the tunnel and you know things are finally you know getting to a bit of a better place and so I'm happy to be able to share some of the the new insights and rules that are coming into place that's going to help us that's amazing thank you for taking the time to do that with us today so I have to say like you know after the few mortgage rate cuts that we we've been witnessing and the and the news about the new changes coming from the federal government um there has been a lot of buz around like hey what does this really mean like is this a time that been waiting for or like maybe we should wait longer or like you know what is that going to look in the number-wise financially so I just want to like you know take the time to go through all that so so people are educated on what to expect when December 15th comes and you know also like encourage them to have those conversations beforehand so they can make informed decisions definitely so I'll I'll kind of start by just recapping on a on a few things so um you mentioned you know the the various rate cuts that we're seeing so I just want to um sort of clarify because I feel like there's some confusion around the fact that the rate cuts that we're seeing with the Bank of Canada I feel like you know nowadays everybody knows about the Bank of Canada announcements everybody's got it you know marked on their their calendar everybody's like following that now exactly so um but with those Bank of Canada announcements those decreases that we're seeing to the policy rate and to the lenders prime those affect variable rates only so I just want to clarify that cuz I feel like there is is you know some continued confusion around that so um with those decreases we've seen several now there's more expected to come um and you know depending on who you listen to there's several economists out there I have a couple of my favorite but they're all sort of you know leading and pointing in the same direction that we are going to remain in a declining rate environment meaning we're you know we're going to continue to see some some decreases um you know and depending on you know where we're going to land I will sort of go on the record and say I don't expect that we're getting anywhere near sort of what we saw in early covid times right we're not getting back to those 2% or sub 2% rates um but I think we can set the expectation that we are getting back to sort of pre-pandemic levels and so you know with the sort of expectation I want to emphasize as well too that you know with all these decreases to the variable rates the fixed rates kind of have a bit of a um you know mind of theel they they pertain to um or sort of they're not directly correlated to the to the um the Bank of Canada and they're sort of governed by the bond market and I'll spare you the details of all of that because we have lots to go through today but my point in bringing it up is that the sort of shift that we're seeing right now ultimately what typically happens is that there's a bit of a trickle effect and what I mean by that is that as we continue to see these Bank of Canada decreases and the variable rates come down ultimately we expect the fixed rates to come back down as well but because they're not directly correlated they don't happen at the same time that's true so when we're seeing these you know 50 basis point decrease that we saw you know in October we you know I had lots of calls calling me saying hey Nicole so my fixed rate went down right and that's not the case so you know there's a couple things actually a couple lots of things happening right now and I'm bringing this up just because it's so important that you know with all these new rule changes that we're going to talk about and you know more you know purchase um purchases coming to play and all these kinds of things it's really important that we understand these things because you know there's been a lot of um I'm going to say you know bad reputation that's followed the variable rates for for quite some time now understandably so but if you kind of understand everything that I'm saying that we expect that we're in a declining rate environment and you know there's a bit of a trickle effect with the fixed rates then ultimately you know a variable rate can still be a very good decision for a lot of borrowers and a lot of clients because you know we can we anticipate that we're going to see you know fixed rates also come back down whether it's you know 6 months from now 9 months from now at some point in the future so the nice thing with those variable rates is that you can lock into you have the flexibility to lock into a fixed rate later on I feel like there's a lot of um I'm going to use the word Obsession when it comes to rates right now cuz it's it's true everybody's you know really concerned about rates again and understandably so but you know making sure that we're making the right decisions and picking between the fixed and variable most definitely that's that's a very good clarification that you gave there because that's definitely a question a lot of people do ask but even with sometimes with um a minor explanation it's not uh clarified properly right so I'm glad that you took the time to do that and also Nicole like when you uh when we spoke earlier you talked about the changes that was recently introduced as well do you want to talk a little bit about that yeah of course so again lots of lots of different things coming into effect but the one that we just recently saw as well was with respect to the stress test um and so just to kind of recap again on on what that stress test is the easiest way for me to explain it is that if I were doing a mortgage for you or one of your clients um we have to almost pretend as though the rate that we're qualifying is significantly higher than what they're getting so very easy example let's just say you were I was securing you a mortgage with a 5% interest rate um for the most part I have to add 2% on that to what we call aess test and that's just of you the governing bodies and the poers that to make that you know if there was income disruption or things that happened that there is still AFF 100% exactly so I understand you know a lot of people say it's a it's a bad thing it's there for people's best interest exactly so um all those stress tests are in in place regardless of the type of mortgage but what's been happening now um or what is happening now is that with um conventional mortgages so mortgages that are not insured example you know you've put down more than 20% um when those mortgages come up for Renewal so when that you know 5year term is done for example and you're up for Renewal as long as it's a straight sort of transfer or switch um meaning you're just looking for you know rate shopping and things like that you no longer have to qualify under the stress test wow so it's a really really big um sort of help and we actually saw um the removal of the stress test um earlier um ear believe it was earlier this year uh on insured mortgages so mortgages that have that default Insurance attached to it but there was still a whole you know bunch of players that you know didn't get to take advantage of that so just to kind of again recap on what that means is um with so many renewals like the most we've ever seen coming up if you know individuals in borers are looking to just you know again rate shop and and make sure that they're finding the most favorable rate for themselves um and not doing any sort of material changes to the mortgage then we don't have to qualify under the stress test which is really nice so that'll that'll help people quite a bit that's true that's amazing um and also I just want to talk about like when you come to renewals I know a lot of people focus on um the rate itself um and that's the complete focus on but I I think there are other guidelines behind the on the mortgage as well that they need to pay attention I want to hug you for saying that I'm so yes it's so important and I can't stress that enough and these are conversations that I have on a regular basis kind of going to I know it sounds bad but I keep saying that you know rate Obsession because it's so it's heavily you know emphasized and put out there in the media and things like that that's what everybody is focusing on and again we're all feeling it from you know a cash flow perspective you know all those kinds of things so it is important but it's not the be all end all exactly and you know it's really important that we're looking at the overall product yes something as simple as prepayment privileges so the amount that you can pay into your mortgage that is something that gets overlooked on a regular basis and there are so many other um Avenues and things that you can do with those prepayments that will help you um you know in the grand scheme of things and so these are not things that you want to overlook and you know I I can't even count how many times I've had the conversation where people are like oh I'm not worried about you know prepayment privileges you know I don't have that much you know in in in my bank to pay it down anyway and that's not the mindset that we want to have so can't emphasize enough anybody who has a renewal coming up speak with your mortgage professional um I'm I'm going to go out there and actually say please speak to a mortgage agent a mortgage a mortgage broker nothing negative to the banks but the banks um are familiar with their products and their products only so exactly yeah it's really important you have options exactly when you come to a mortgage broker you have like access to many lenders including the big Banks exactly right so when you go to a bank directly they talk about only their product they're not going to compete and see hey are you getting the best deal or the best rate or anything like that so of course I completely agree when you're coming for Renewal or you're looking for that new mortgage talk to a mortgage agent or a broker because they will be able to shop around and make sure that you're getting the good product so let's talk about these changes coming up that everybody is waiting to see what's it's going to be on December 15th right so I hear that you know it's going to be one of the biggest or the boldest moves the federal government is making after a decade to the mortgage just to make sure it's more affordable it's at reach for people especially the like the Young Generation genes to achieve home ownership right and you know bridge the gap that's currently there right so um there are few changes coming up um one is the down payment option the 5% and then the cap has now been increase from 1 million to 1.5 do you want to talk a little bit about like what that really means because the reason I'm asking is when you say 5% down payment um that there there's a category that it breaks into right exactly it's still the same sliding scale that it was before so um but the difference is in where it affects the down payment um is that there's a higher cap now so um you know just to kind of step back a bit I'll say that this these um rule changes are in effect for insured mortgages so just to kind of clarify and recap what an insured mortgage is is um if we are putting down less than 20% uh we have what's called a high ratio mortgage and ultimately that just means that the borrowers or the individuals will have like a default Insurance that's rolled into the mortgage so it's not something that you're paying upfront it's rolled into the mortgage um and and that's is a percentage um and there's a sort of a a scale for that but so currently before up until December 15th the cap for that space is $1 million um and so now the um cap is now $1.5 million so to give you some perspective and kind of take that back to the down payment um you know previously or or up until December 15th the minimum down payment would be about $ 300,000 um on a $15 million purchase whereas now that's changed to um $125,000 wow what a difference so very big difference now pros and cons with with everything I I just want to clarify again what that scale looks like so the 5% because that gets thrown a lot around a lot where I'm going to you know I'm going to I'm a first-time home buyer and I'm going to live in the property and I'm going to put down 5% it's 5 % of the first 500,000 currently it's 10% on the amount above that up to a million and as of December 15th it'll be 10% up to the 1.5.5 yes yeah yeah so you know very very big um you know difference in what that down payment is um you know I'm as I'm speaking to people about this I I'm very excited for it I I want to just kind of go out there and say that I'm not suggesting to my clients that hey now you can go buy you know another half a million dollar property if you can you know uh uh qual qualify for it I'm not suggesting that by any means but where I think this will really help is you know depending on the market so you know in areas like Toronto for example like actual Toronto or you know Markham Von like some of those areas um it's very very possible that you know first-time home buyers are looking at a property that's a million dollars I know it sounds crazy but but that that's very possible you would know that even better than I do and so you know there were a lot of people that were sort of just um you know priced out of this this Market over the last little while because they needed a little bit of wiggle room so maybe there was a property we all know that it can be listed at $999 but it doesn't mean that that's the expectation right and so it's you know very frustrating for a lot of borrowers and um you and I see this on a regular basis we're used to it but I've had so many clients come back to me with their literally broken because they're like we just can't get over that Gap or sorry that like that cap I should say I definitely think there's you know lots of exciting things to you know come into to to play for for those borrowers there for sure and the icing on the cake is the 30 years ammortization yes so I'm actually really happy about I'm I'm happier about that than than I am I mean it's all good news but if I had to pick one it would be that so with the 30-year amortization it was earlier um this year it was introduced that that 30-y year amorti was going to be available for essentially preconstruction in new builds um and if anybody heard me speak earlier this year I was not happy about this I was very vocal about it cuz I just thought it was a whole lot of nothing meaning that it was almost a tease right because there's just like it's great for those you know B with preconstruction but it's just that was not where I really felt the pain point was so I was really upset about it not being available to um sort of all um borrowers or all first-time home buyers so that is now coming into effect and So currently in the insured space we only have uh a maximum amortization of 25 years so if you are in a conventional space meaning not that insured space we have you know 20% down payment or more 30 years is available to to all of those borrowers but in that insured space again which are a lot of the first you know majority of you know first-time home buyers and things like that um it wasn't available so that's coming into effect and so um we don't get access to it though until December 15th there's a l misinformation out there as well right now that we can sort of apply for it now and close later um but the the rules in order to take advantage of that actual qualification the submission has to be post um December 15th yes yes that's kind of like what we were talking earlier as well with clients like a lot of lot of people out there think okay it's coming in effect but I want to know what my numbers will look like that so it's it's definitely not something that U we you want to like estimate you want to wait till the the rules to come into effect because you know these are new regulations coming in new facilities that's made by the federal government so you need to wait till that time comes to get the actual picture yes and and where I think some of the confusion is is like if in a situation and we actually had a a client like this as well too um in a situation where a borrower can qualify under the current rules so the 25y year M all of the the current rules that are in place as of today and if they're not closing till the end of January for example we still can at that point sort of um restructure it and re-qualify them you know on December 15th if they want to take advantage of the 30-year meaning because that will help with monthly payments and things like that right so um that we can do but in terms of you know basically getting access to it now we do we do have to we have to with the 30 amortization you know what where that really helps Borrowers is it's kind of twofold so um it will allow for a a a lower monthly payment because essentially the amount that you're borrowing is now being taken from 25 year to 30 years so it stretches that um sort of life of the mortgage out and it it makes the monthly payments literally smaller and so the qualification that we have to do is such that we take the monthly you know payments and and you know basically dictates how much um the overall liabilities how much we can qualify for so you know with that um it will also now increase purchasing power so it's kind of twofold right because you know again if we needed a little bit of a boost in terms of you know um something that's listed you know at a certain price and you need to you know the the they're actually expecting $3 $40,000 you know more um we now have that buffer and the last thing I just kind of want to mention on that is that I I've had some questions surrounding well isn't a 30-year amortization bad because you know we're we're paying interest for a longer period of time yeah that's the question that I get asked too yeah and what I will say to that is that you know with Canadian financing I think we're very fortunate that um although we have you know the life of the mortgage being 25 or 30 years in terms of the amortization we get to renegotiate our terms every few years so on average it's 5 years right now with you know with Co we've been seeing some shorter terms so three years four years whatever it may be but nonetheless we get to renegotiate those terms every few years and so you know if we wanted to we can take advantage and Leverage The 30-year amortization right now to get into the market yes and then you know if ideally they would have had a 25 year um amortization and by the time their renewal comes up 5 years for example you can you can catch up so if you wanted to providing we can qualify for it and we can you know afford it so to speak um we can now renew you and take you to a 20 year and you would essentially have you know caught up so you know there's so many things that we can do in terms of restructuring it so I'm just of the mindset that like if we can get you into the market let's do that yeah yeah and I want to like talk a little bit on that um Nicole because you know when I'm having these conversations with like especially first-time homeowners or like you know they're trying to see hey can I get in like you know is this the time that I've been waiting for to answer the question like this what is the best time for me to enter home ownership um the only thing I tell them is whatever the time that is best for you right the earlier the better better because you know housing is at demand throughout history it's a basic need everybody has the prices creep like know we may have like a little bit of dip here and there with the charts up to last 40 years but you see the arrow is climbing because it's a high demanded uh a a product exactly everybody needs a house right and you know and based on the population growth like you know there is a gap that the caran government is trying to like now Bridge together with all these uh new rules and you know facilities coming in so if you're asking the question is this the right time can I get in have that conversation find out if it's within your affordability if you have the down payment go for it it may not be the dream home that you want with the pool but it'll give you the foundation to get there 100% And and I couldn't agree more and one of the things that I have probably um repeated the most in all of the conversations that I've had over the years um and it doesn't matter what's happening throughout Co pre-co like all of those times you can never time the market I'm a firm believer I believe that wholeheartedly because there's always something you know going on and so my answer to all of that is that exactly what you said the time is right when it's right for you exactly and you know so again I can't emphasize that enough just have the conversation with a mortgage professional do your assessment understand what your budget is you'd be surprised with rent prices the way they are right now sort of what those numbers look like it could be fairly you know similar to what you would pay for a house this is absolutely nothing negative to to renting or leasing at all but the reality is in my opinion that if you have the ability to pay your own mortgage instead of paying somebody else's mortgage for me that exactly that's that's a no-brainer and again that's not to like it's it has to be right for you but if you can make that that work because to me with with you know owning a property it's literally like taking money from one pocket and putting into the other like you'rea Mak your money for you exactly so even like because you talked about uh leasing or renting I have to say like the rental market is very uh tight right now because with everything happening in the landlord tency board um with all the stories that you hear the the home owners are very very um on top of being like secured when they're trying to select their uh tenants right and because the demand is so high and the supply is or the product is very low there's a high competition so there are like one house for Le and there's about 5 to 10 applications and they go through every single detail from credit score to employment verification savings you know whatnot reference checks so if sometimes I feel like uh working with clients I help them with Leasing and also home ownership sometimes I feel like buying a home the conversation is much easier then getting a lease approved because the homeowner demands are so high right so like you know there has been a couple of clients that who were actually looking for leasing who ended up buying because you know it it was less stressful for them 100% and you won't know what that looks like unless you go through that that you know sort of you know budgeting and affordability um sort of assessment and I want to um also talk about the um the qualifying um aspects of these new changes coming up so like you know everybody is asking hey like I already own a home like does this apply to me or like you know oh I'm I'm in the verge of maybe getting into Home Ownership how does this apply to me like do I qualify so like is there a qualification category Nicole that applies to these new changes yes so in terms of the insured space so just that $ 1.5 um million doll cap and and that sort of um the change is coming into effect under that that is for anything sorry any mortgage or any borrower that is you know purchasing a home with um in an insured space so with less than that 20% it do it doesn't matter if they are first-time home owners or like already home owners upgrading downgrading exactly the only thing that sort of um has stipulations is the 30e em ization so the 30-year amortization as it stands right now is for in in that insured space is for firsttime home buyers only okay so um I'll give you an example um there are because there's sometimes confusion I find with the fact that I'm a first-time home buyer so I can put down you know the minimum down payment that is not a first-time home buyer thing that is if I am living in the property and it's owner occupied I can choose to put down less than 20% so example would be um somebody purchased a property in the height of covid slightly inflated price points um now they're selling and buying and you know we are using the net sale proceeds towards the down payment of a new H uh a new home but we're looking to upgrade so to speak so um we're purchasing a little bit higher so now um we we no longer have 20% down payment for that new house it's ideal and usually when we're selling and buying we typically have you know 20% or more but in this situation just given the circumstances we don't have of that well those borrowers that family can still purchase um in the insured space with less than 20% down payment um but because they are not firsttime home buyers they wouldn't get access to that 30-year oration okay that's the difference yes okay and let's talk about uh new bills like for the new bills they do qualify for that yes so the 30y year amortization that was what I was kind of mentioning was initially introduced for the new bills um and so that's again it's great for the preconstruction in the in the new and I think that's also because that Market's been a little saturated for some time as well too so they're looking to again incentivize um you know borrowers for and buyers for that as well um so yes in the preconstruction if if it's you know a preconstruction or newly built property um and not resale then yes that 30 year matiz is available yeah and that's for like even if you're a current home owner you're investing into a preconstruction or like you know it's your first home and you're going preconstruction they both apply exactly that's great that's it will it will be nice you know and the next step hopefully I'm going to throw that out there for anybody who's you know in the the regul you know can can regulate these things and and call the shots it would be really nice if we have the 30-year amotization just available across the board but yes baby steps we'll take it for now yeah one step at a time exactly yes yes so I so I I want to understand the goals behind like why this is happening why federal government is you know bringing these major changes after decades right like you know the I definitely see the population growth in Canada the demand has gone the prices rental prices has skyrocketed and even like you know we do see u a bias market right now it can change with what's going to happen in um December 15th um so in your Viewpoint Nicole like know will this bridge the gap between the demand and the supply in the Housing Industry I I don't think so I think we're still a ways away from that I think we're it's all you know steps in the right Direction all um you know moving in that right direction but I still think that there are a lot of other external factors that are causing issues like to me this is not going to fix the supply and demand issue right um but again it will help affordability and it will help you know those buyers that have kind of been you know forced into the rental market because they couldn't you know purchase because of that cap for example or needing that little bit of wiggle room with you know the 30 amotization so I definitely think it's helping and it's all again moving in the right direction but I think we still have quite a ways to go in terms of the overall housing crisis so to speak understand understand because the population never stopped growing exactly so we need to definitely you know mo speed up the process as well to meet the Gap so I I wanted to ask you so with this in this time frame of the year with you know everything happening every the the big talk about housing like affordability and what's coming next and the next interest rate announcement again in December happening so that a lot of things are changing a lot of people are looking for the opportunities to grasp and a lot of people are like still like at the edge like like the penguin Theory like I'm going to wait to see what happens I'm going to follow this you know um what is one piece of advice or advice that you would like to share honestly I I kind of said it earlier and I'm just going to re like reiterate again to say just don't don't wait don't sit on the fence I think you know if you've had that assessment and you know this is something you want to do I think we still have a little bit of a window before things get a little crazier um and you know despite everything that I'm saying or you know the information that's out there there are still people that are sitting on the fence and are going to continue to sit on the fence until the you know the next rate decrease or the rules come into effect and all those kinds of things so um but I do genuinely believe that we're going to continue to see you know an uptick in the market I think it's going to be a busy spring and I think you know all of these changes again are going to fuel that activity and you know that that window that we we may have in certain areas and Market centers for you know um certain people are is is just going to you know kind of disappear very shortly so I think you know if if you have the ability to purchase now um you know don't time all of these changes or you know the continued rate like decreases again kind of taking it back to the very beginning with the variable rate options that's something that again can um buy you time if you wanted to act on something now and then lock in at a later date right when you think the rates you know have come back down further for sure for sure I just want to give throw some numbers at them for them to get thinking so let's say hypothetically someone that who's renting right now want to get into like a one-bedroom or a studio apartment uh the prices are like slowly climbing as we have seen in the near past um whatever that was in the 450 430 range is now closer to 500 range right the demand has gone up and we can see the prices are climbing already so let's say hypothetically they're looking for a $500,000 home the down payment you're looking at is about $25 ,000 right and what what does the closing cost would look like so that's a really good question it depends on um the answer that depends on who's asking and what I mean by that is um if you're in an insured space an insured mortgage the lenders themselves will typically ask to see about 1.5% of the purchase price for the um the closing cost and that is on top of the down payment exactly um but in reality um for that same example the closing cost will actually be much less than that um just simply because of the um first-time home buyer land transfer tax rebates and things like that because in the Toronto Market they're um they're they're double taxes for the land transfer tax but um you can get a maximum credit of 8,475 I believe it is um and then outside of Toronto it's $4,000 so those tax um I'm sorry those rebates will get applied to the land transfer tax um which is the biggest portion of your closing cost um so in reality it's it's less than that but um in the conventional space so sort of regular mortgages not in that insured space I typically will say anywhere from 2 to 4% um because it will depend on the area that you're purchasing as well so again Toronto is going to be closer to that 4% um where you know um somebody in in Oakville for example is going to be you know maybe on that 2% that's true that's true so it depends yeah so like it's good to like talk about the actual numbers because you know a lot of people they may or may not have that $25,000 to $40,000 amount in their savings or in their RS space but you know you know this is the time that you can sit down with the financial advisor or more advisor to see like how you can put that savings to play exactly and that's why it's never too early to have those conversations right ex yeah and we we see a lot of inquiries these days like we we've been doing a lot of meetings as well and we encourage you to bring them on we are happy to sit down and have you know have a look at your numbers your goals what you want to achieve in your home ownership in your life in general and you know see how we can get you started and give you the best advice and maybe even you don't have the savings right now maybe you can come up with the plan exactly so you know like at what time we should have the next conversation right and that's the goal um that we want to have this discussion today so people are aware of what options are available for them and with you know all the um questions that you had I hope that those has been answered for you but if you do have more questions we're going to uh leave a link below in this podcast so you can always reach out to us we'll be happy to schedule meeting sit down with you and talk about you know your future your goals and how we can you know may be able to assist you get there for sure definitely happy to help yeah Nico I want to thank you for you know taking your time coming here sharing this insightful information yeah and we look forward to maybe having you again another time with more insights into a different topic onto mortgages of course and anything that you guys want to know let Stella know and we'll we'll be back here for sure most definitely thank you Nicole it was a pleasure having you thanks again bye guys thank you for spending your time with us on the Stellar talk show we hope you found value in today's episode and gained insights to help elevate your lifestyle if you enjoyed the discussion please like subscribe and share it with anyone who could benefit it means the world to us until our next episode stay inspired and I'll see you soon on our next Stellar talk show