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Family Law

• Stella Ram • Season 1 • Episode 8

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Welcome to another insightful episode of The Stellar Talk Show! In this special edition, we dive deep into the intersection of family law and asset management, exploring how Ontario’s family law handles the division of assets during separation or divorce, and what parents need to know about protecting their children’s inheritance in blended families.

In this episode, our expert guest—a seasoned family lawyer—shares a wealth of knowledge on:

🔹 What You'll Learn:
✅ How Ontario family law handles asset division during separation or divorce
✅ Key considerations for protecting children's inheritance in blended families
✅ Common real estate mistakes during family transitions—and how to avoid them
✅ Real-life scenarios and expert advice to safeguard your wealth

Join us for this must-listen conversation with legal and real estate experts who will break it all down in a way that's practical, empowering, and easy to understand.

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any Legal Information obtained during
this video may not be applicable to your
particular
circumstances if you have a legal
concern you should consult with a lawyer
who can give you the specific
information and advice that you deserve
Jonathan Klein has practiced family law
exclusively for almost 20 years and has
represented clients successfully with
settlements trials and appeals at all
levels of court in
Ontario hi and welcome back to another
amazing episode of at talk show today
we're going to talk about a very crucial
subject which is family love we have a
special guest as I mentioned Jonathan
welcome to the show thank you oh it was
very nice to having you here before we
dive deep into the today's topics about
relationships tell us a little bit about
yourself and why family law oh sure yeah
I'm a family lawyer I've actually only
ever been a family lawyer and 99% of
what I do is um dealing with family law
topics it's kind of a euphemism for
divorce law most of what I do is
divorces and separations for common law
people we also do marriage contracts and
cohabitation agreements and sort of
anything related to that that's amazing
and you've been doing this for about 10
years now almost 20 almost 20 oh wow wow
it's a long time so you have seen it all
I've seen it I no every you know it's
amazing every new person has something
different about their story and
you know it's tempting toize people into
this is that typ of but when you get to
know them there's always something
special and unique and surprising if you
think you've seen it all you have it you
have no that's true every story is
unique right that's amazing so let's
talk about family law today so the
Spencer Sean he has mentioned the more
informed we are the more we understand
and the better we are able to protect
ourselves our family and assets that's
the most important part so just keeping
that in mind when it comes to family law
what are your main
thoughts that's a very broad question
which is perfect because you know we
would resist giving any sort of specific
advice when being recorded and it's very
common to say remember like this is not
legal advice for you there's such a wide
range of people and situations and
experiences so I could talk about family
law generally and I'm happy to and I'm
actually more happy to than talking
about some specifics because what is
great advice for one person is not great
advice for the other person and someone
will come to me and their friends H is
getting separated and their lawyer told
them this so they assume that it's the
same for them sometimes it is and
sometimes it's not yes yes so it really
I'm and you know different jurisdictions
can be different right like
in if you're in York Region the culture
might be different than in Peele or in
Toronto it can make little differences
but you know if you have to wait two
months to see a judge in one
jurisdiction and eight months to see a
judge in a different jurisdiction you're
going to behave differently because you
know that well you'll know how hard or
easy it might be to get somebody to
understand what the problem is and how
to resolve it and are they going to be
able to resolve it yeah I know that's
true that's true I know it's a very
broad subject to talk about and you know
as you mentioned it's not going to be
the same for everybody because everybody
has a unique situation that they're in
or unit storyline that you know
contributing to why they're now looking
into family low attributes right yeah I
mean not just that Ontario like we have
our laws in Ontario there's some overlap
with other provinces and there's some
non overlap with other provinces it's
very specific and very local and you'll
see there's no huge legal chain stores
right that's true because it can't there
can't be even National or International
it just it just wouldn't work because
the knowledge is so
localized wow yeah okay but speaking you
know speaking generally about family law
especially in Ontario is I'm
really like I'm really impressed with
how fair the laws are here generally
they does not the system does not always
get everything right by any means there
are problems but the big picture of it
is I think it's quite Fair that's that's
amazing that's good to know so just
touching on Ontario that you said the
family law is better compared to the
other provinces I'm sorry I'm not very
aware about that factor so it's good I'm
also learning with you today um can you
tell me how Ontario family law handles
division of assets during a separation
or a
reos broadly speaking in
Ontario you are dividing the the profits
of the marriage like the wealth gained
over the course of the marriage and very
broadly speaking we do that by taking a
financial snapshot of a person's net
worth when they get married a financial
snapshot of the person's net worth on
the day they separate that may not
always be very clear what day that is
but we try yeah and then we look at what
is the growth between those two
dates and we look at it for each person
and divide the profits equally
essentially we do that with a money
payment so we're trying to avoid
interfering with a business like we
don't want to force the sale of shares
from one partner to the other unless
there's a they own a company together
and they can't continue to open that
operate that company together because
they for the same reasons that the
marriage broke up okay but for the most
part family law wants to get out of the
way of business and
not you know move assets around between
people as long as there's a way to make
things equal
M makes sense yeah that's interesting
yeah so like when it comes to family law
like there are a lot of things to think
about not only like your personal assets
but what you have gained through the
business world as well as a
couple yeah wow okay I wasn't thinking
that F so you made me think now yeah
you're so oh and that's just for married
people yes right so a common law couple
separating um the way property division
works is is total I mean it's not
totally different we do try to look to
married what we do for married people by
analogy depending on how long the common
law relationship is um but that area of
the law has been entirely made by the
legal
system whereas for married people it's
created by Parliament right elected
politicians came up with that yes the um
for common law people it's law that has
developed in the common law
the common law is the history of judg
made decisions interpreted by Future
judges and followed by Future judges and
it's the collected wisdom of all those
Decades of
decisions uh come to bear on your little
family yeah and trying to do the fairest
thing that's possible as possible that's
true that's true um so what are what are
some of the factors that determine
spousal support or child support when it
comes to uh that stage in a
relationship um so child support is
essentially the number of
children and the payor income

M and what province you live in that's
basically those are the three key
elements okay the child support
recipient oh and with whom the child
children live okay which is not always
clear okay um the amount of time the
children live with each parent mhm
matters I see okay and uh that can
actually you know that can be one of the
most difficult things because when the
amount of time you spend with your kids
or the amount of time that your kids
live with you has an impact on how much
money you owe each other every month
everyone's aware of it and everyone has
to deal with that tension
between fighting over time with the kids
having a financial impact M mhm
understand understand yeah very
sensitive topics to talk about it's
really tough yes yes oh and spell of
support has different
factors length of the marriage whether
they're are children or not incomes of
both parties but also whether you're in
the sort of relationship where spousal
support um is needed or is appropriate
so we have two different ways of
thinking about it there's compensatory
spousal support and non-compensatory
spousal support okay compensatory is
when the person is being compensated for
their contribution to the marriage right
it happens that in a couple one person
has sacrificed their own economic
interest their career uh for the other
spouse and the other spouse has
succeeded in their career because the
other spouse was carrying part of that
Burden Burden yeah and so we try to so
spousal support the aim of spousal
support is to correct or compensate for
for the loss of having that economic
support from your partner whose career
is taken off and the longer you were
together the closer you should expect to
be for the rest of your lives in terms
of income regardless of who's bringing
in the money I see oh that's that's
interesting wow that's a lot of
information that you just threw out
there but it's good to know that you
know we don't really think about those
factors right you know when you're in a
relationship like it's always giving you
know it's more than taking is always
giving but when it comes to the nities
like it's good to know that what you
just mentioned the details we have to be
aware of yeah and I didn't even talk
about non-compensatory spousal support
yeah no yeah please go ahead which is I
mean very broadly speaking it's
basically the cases
where it's just there's a need for it
there's something about the nature of
the relationship where it may not you
may not be economically compensating a
person for their contributions to the
relationship or the
contributions to that other person's
career directly but there's just a need
has developed because of the
relationship yes and the relationship
between these two people is such that
spouse's support is
appropriate wow okay the aim is to

achieve fairness and uh self-sufficiency
as far as possible so there is also an
uh an expectation on people
who aren't don't have an income to find
a way to get an income find it yeah the
goal is to be to promote
self-sufficiency self-sufficiency yeah
no that's true that's true yeah know you
know it's like I'm listening to your
answers and I you know I'm thinking like
no I'm not going to think about these
things on a on a normal day no no yeah
that's that's why it's important to talk
to like people who are going through
these things with different couples or
different um people relationship um
situation so you can educate yourself so
you kind of know like you know hey
what's going to happen if this happens
right and know what I need to look out
for and what are these things really
means because you know it's always good
to be in the no most definitely so thank
you for sharing that with me um and also
when it comes to the rights um for
common law Partnerships um in Ontario
compared to married couples regarding
property and finances what are you
taking
there it's mostly the same during the
relationship the biggest difference is
what happens to you after it the
relationship ends okay uh a lot of
Ontario's law has Consolidated around
treating non-married couples the same as
married couples MH there are a couple
exceptions um I don't know all of them
I'm sure there's uh one is a spouse
cannot be compelled to testify against
their married
spouse in a criminal trial but common
law common law spouse I think can be
compelled to testify against their
common law spouse oh I see okay and I
could be wrong about that right that's I
just cuz that's not my area of law but
that was like the example of a very
Niche case Niche case yeah the big cases
are um in that I know of are family law
separating and
not being entitled
to uh intestate rights if the if your
partner dies without a will and you're
not married you don't have you're not in
the line of
succession that's why you that that's
where the will becomes important
document to have everybody need yeah
everyone should have well almost
everyone should have a will yeah yeah
yeah wow that's interesting so like when
it comes to um let's talk about property
ownership okay so when it comes to
married couples owning a property to
together um both names on the property
or a common law couple owning a property
with both names on the property what's
the difference like what what are things
to know for and you know in case if
they're coming to an end in the
relationships how does that
work almost none almost almost none if
it's jointly owned okay um it's a it's
you know it's a great
question it's what I talked about before
um with the uh common law
person
like coming into the relationship what
you bring into the relationship matters
more if you're getting married you're
looking at uh and you end up separating
you're looking at the what you brought
in versus you know what are you what are
you walking out with are walking out
with
yeah but it doesn't change the ownership
rights mhm you're uh even married people
you're not transferring property an item
an object a land that you own to your
other person automatically and a common
law is the same or you and I would be
the same right we you're still
independent as to property and debts
okay I see I see so what happens like
you know let's say some a couple is in a
common law partnership and uh they own a
home but the house is only owned by one
person does does that make a difference
yeah yeah if you're owning it together
not much difference if one person owns
it and the other doesn't significant
difference many different scenarios you
kind of need specific advice about that
specific advice about that okay and is
it the same for a married couple
too no no it's it's different yeah there
are edge cases where it can make a
difference if one person owns the whole
property and the other one doesn't if in
fact it's one of the it's one of the
exceptions to that regime I was talking
about before I see okay if a
person brings a property into a
marriage it can it can there's a quirk
of how things are divided where that
might not count as your among your
assets on the starting date I see okay
it goes back to the 80s right when
Modern Family Law was created they cre
cre an exception for What's called the
matrimonial home which is a home that
was brought into the marriage and that
is still being occupied lived in by the
couple at the end of the marriage so the
idea you know in the 80s there were many
couples that had been together for a
long time maybe the and and the house
was the major asset of the family yes
and if one person brought that M into a
marriage and they were together for 30
years and then they separated and the
person said well you know the the growth
in the value of property was not the
same in the 80s as it is now yes
so the this quk of the law said you're
not allowed to deduct the amount that
you brought in if it's the house that
you brought into the marriage and you're
still living in that law is still on the
books and it can have weird and I think
unfair implications so at times yeah if
you are bringing a house that you own
into a marriage you need advice you need
advice most definitely that's really
good uh that you mentioned that because
you know anybody that who are excited in
getting in that you know living together
situation or getting into a marriage
situation and now expanding their family
in the house they own these are things
that we don't really think about uh but
it's good to know because you know it's
rather than becoming hard lessons these
are like anticipated lessons are better
yeah right so it's always good to read
about it or talk to some people who are
advanced in these um subjects to get
that information is very important so
family lawyer to go also if you're
common law if you're bringing a property
into a common law relationship you extra
want to get advice from a lawyer because
it's not guaranteed that you're going to
keep all of that property all of the
value of the property and it's not going
to there's
no there's no automatic way to
compensate for who contributes what
during a common law relationship whereas
in a marriage it's neutral as to who
contributes what during the marriage
during the marriage because you're
looking at each person's growth and
sharing it yes doesn't necessarily work
that way in the common love
relationships we really do need to look
at what you're getting into getting into
that's true that's true I had a um
interesting situation I had a I had a
prospect uh that I was talking to few
months ago um she's in a married
situation um but however she wants to um

she um came into some money from some
properties that she sold um from
overseas I believe she wants to buy a
property she's in a marriage uh legally
married relationship but she doesn't
want to have anything to do with her
spouse in that particular property
purchase um so apart from the mortgage
qualifying aspect of it you know that's
a different whole situation there um I
want to know like you know if it's a
principal property that you're going to
be reside in you need to have your
spousal consent and things like that
when once you're buying after you get
married right um so let's say
hypothetically now she's buying that for
for a rental property um and she doesn't
want to get her spouse involved at all
um we advise her to go and speak to a
lawyer I just want to know like you know
if she comes to you what would be some
advice that you will be sharing with
her so I'd have a lot of questions right
like before I would give advice like why
why why can't your husband know about
this no
I don't I don't need to know about that
everyone has their reasons um I the
broadest answer is that inheritances are
excluded from property
division but you have to be able to
trace the asset from when you break up
to the inheritance so you need the will
and then you need to show the estate
paying out the asset and it has to be
the same asset that you own or traceable
from the asset that you own and
sometimes the asset also has income and
you are investing the income in other
assets so it all has to be traceable so
yeah you should talk to a lawyer about
how to set that up how to make sure that
your inheritance is distinct from
property that might be
shared if that's something that you want
to keep aside and most for most people
it is it is it is oh that's interesting
also the person who is who is seeing a
lawyer for their will if it's in Ontario
an Ontario lawyer will say by the
way uh you need to have this clause in
your will so that your beneficiary is
going to receive the property but and
it'll be excluded from marital property
division but also the income will
be uh excluded from marital property
Division if you have a will from outside
Ontario that lawyer may not know that an
Ontario will has to say
that there's so there's so many nuances
but that's something else if you yeah
are if you had your will done outside of
Ontario and you're leaving Ontario
property to someone you need a Ontario
lawyer yes yes that's very important too
um this is very like the topics that
we're discussing today I feel like it's
very important and also very sensitive
topic so I want to be very sensible
about this um so let's talk about like
you know in situations
um parents protecting their child
uh uh inheritance and things like that
you know I'm pretty sure like with with
your experience in the past 20 years you
probably would have come across
scenarios that is you know um in in that
area can you um share a little bit about
your experience there and what a good
advice yes well in addition in addition
to what I was just saying which is you
need a will draft you should get a whe
drafted or at least speak to a lawyer in
the jurisdiction where the property is
and if you have property in different
places you might need to talk
to a lawyer in each one of those places
to find out is there something I need to
know so um so if you're if you're trying
to protect your children's inheritance
uh will it something that you need to
definitely consider having done yeah and
if you're you know if
it's before I was talking about how
inheritances can be protected by a
marriage contract or or even by a will
as long as or just behavior that
protects it right like by keeping it
separate yes um but sometimes that's not
how your life is you know for example uh
you know a second marriages people uh
bringing their families together and
each person might be bringing property
in that they want to protect um or give
to their own children and not
necessarily to their stepchildren
obviously that's something you have to
talk about with your other spouse and
that's something that you would want to
talk to a lawyer about that as well
that's well that's that's very good
information you shared there definitely
because every family situ situation is
unique and different so getting the best
advice from the best person who who's an
expert in that area is crucial
definitely 100% agre um I wanted to also
uh touch base on some of misconceptions
that we have um in the society when it
comes to family law and asset management
in a relationship um can you share some
insights into
that I mean there's there's a feeling
right that the other person's uh going
to take you for everything you're
worth and
it those sorts of situations happen
when the if if that's happening there's
probably something wrong with the
process M or one of the people is so
toxic that it just it's going to be
scorched Earth but for most people
getting separated it's not going to
result in a deeply unfair situation now
if you're talking to your friends and
they're colloquial saying like oh yeah
she got everything she got the kids she
got the house she got my income or
whatever then they're probably
exaggerating they might not be but
they're probably exaggerating MH
and you know in the Big Picture People
don't necessarily appreciate that
getting married is such a phenomenally
significant financial benefit in almost
all cases in almost all cases you're
pooling resources whether it's money
income labor work taking care of the
household family supporting each other
emotionally like that all has value
economic value yes that is a basis from
which you can have EC IC success it's a
safety net if you lose your job all of
those huge important economic benefits
oh and not to mention uh sharing
resources right you can save a lot on
economies of scale just bringing two
households together so being married is
an enormous Financial benefit and
getting separated is giving up that
enormous Financial benefit benefit it's
really tough yes it's a you're going to
take a bigit hit
and and people don't necessarily
understand or
acknowledge that that economic benefit
was partially the structure it partially
comes from you and it partially comes
from the other spouse who you may not
like anymore who you might detest now
but there were things very likely that
they did during your relationship to
make you in the financial position you
are
that's true that's true so everything
that need need to consider when you're
making those big decisions in life right
it it's hard to think of a more
consequential financial decision than
whether you get married or not and who
you get married to yes yes that's true
that's true um um apart from the will um
what are some other uh information or
documents that they should consider
having to protect their well-being and
their financials in that process oh yeah
um bank statements you know records yes
records are the most likely thing that's
able to protect you because not being
able to find records means you don't
have proof of what you owned on
especially if it's you know a date of
marriage so yeah keeping records matters
being having organized records will help
like all of that stuff if you can't
prove
something the court expects if it's you
know if it's your asset and you can't
prove that you own it or how much it's
worth you know they still expect you if
you're going to say that it's yours to
be able to prove it and if you can't you
sometimes have to drop yes an issue that
you're of money that you're entitled to
so keeping records is very important is
very important it's one of the most
expensive aspects of family law you know
buy a scanner mhm
protect you okay so in life like we um
in couple situations like you know in
relationships um is there any warning
signs that you know that tells them hey
you need you need to talk to a
lawyer I think
probably I think probably people know
probably people know I feel like people
know and the difficult part is to listen
to that voice like I should probably
talk to aori about this oh well it'll be
fine you know it's not it's like you
know if you you know if a person has
tooth pain they know they have to go to
the dentist but a lot of people are
scared to do that or reluctant to do it
you need a will but you don't want to
think about death you have to think
about if you have kids you might think
about like what's going to happen to my
what would happen to my kids if my
spouse and I died MH you don't want to
think about that there's all kinds of
unpleasant things that we have to just
grit our teeth be it but I suspect that
people kind of know yes they know like
you know what when when is the right
time but sometimes you know as you
mentioned because we are so hesitant to
listen to that voice um and we like okay
no it's going to be okay I'll give it
more time it can get more complicated if
you don't pay attention to that voice
yeah do it the first as soon as your
voice is telling you you're probably in
more trouble than you realize if your
voice is saying like yeah uh last year I
should have done this the absolutely the
earlier MH if you can do it while you're
still in the relationship would be the
best time because then you know the
stakes so much better yes yeah if you
need a therapist go talk to your th
family therapist um and have that couple
uh what do you call that consultation
with your therapist um to work things
out and you know if if if by then you
will know hey do I need to talk to a
lawyer or
not or you could talk to the lawyer
first yeah for you depending on your
situation and scenario yeah I think it's
easier even to bring up hey let's talk
to the therapist than talk to the lawyer
because you talk because the you
associate the lawyer with the end yes
and you associate the therapist with
trying to save
it um but talking to the lawyer might
change the dynamic right it might change
your understanding of what the stakes
are and what's important or even how to
make sure that the landing is a soft as
possible if you do break up okay
understand understand as unpleasant as
it is but you know if you do end up in a
situation now you're separating what are
some of the first things someone should
do to protect
themselves oh yeah do your taxes do your
taxes okay do your taxes go back and if
you did them yourself especially if
you're a business owner get someone who
knows what they're doing to look at it
and do it right mhm uh that can save you
a lot of money in legal fees like bu a
scanner you know things like that I know
they're very practical tips but those
are things that will help you quite a
lot especially when it comes to records
and especially if you're a sole business
owner most small business owners
especially are good at what they do
they're good at the product or the
service that they provide they might not
be as good at bookkeeping youing
this just the grind of being a business
owner so even if you are good still if
you're getting
separated it can make a big difference
that is a time to get your taxes done
and have someone who really knows what
they're doing to look at those yeah I
know I understand that's true so those
are very good advice for anybody you
know who are in those situations uh to
consider and you know take actions right
away most definitely so I I want to ask
finally so in your opinion as you
mentioned in the beginning uh you
mentioned like hey if you look at a
couple in yoke region compared to a PE
region based on cultural differences
that can influence the relationship and
so forth and you know financial
decisions um what do you think the
influences would be like you know how
what I have you seen in the

past
like just Broad speaking some
jurisdictions might have
more traditionalist judges than others
some but mostly it's about the workings
of
the it's the resources that a specific
Courthouse might have available to it
it's not even and it's not fair and you
know the federal and provincial
governments are not really paying a lot
of attention to making sure that there
are enough judges in every place and
enough support
staff the suburbs are growing at an
exponential rate well I don't know if
it's like exponential but the suburbs
are growing really fast and the judicial
appointments don't always keep up and um
so some locations can just be slower yes
and if you don't if you can't be
confident that if something goes really
wrong that you are able to get in front
of a judge within however much
time if your situation is not an
emergency but is really important that's
sort of a very difficult Zone the courts
will hear emergencies yes they will do
whatever they need to if something is
urgent and an emergency and they need to
hear it right away and make a decision
they will if something is
important but not an emergency it's a
gray Zone and sometimes they'll say you
have to wait your turn like everyone
else yes and those are situations where
a person might have to make a compromise
that they otherwise wouldn't have to M
interesting yeah no that's true that's
true that's a different way of think you
know looking at it you know generally I
wouldn't consider uh you know thinking
that way but it's a good thing that you
mentioned that yeah and also the
cultural influences in different um
areas yeah yeah right because you know
if you if you take P region it's very
influential by the um the immigration um
that's happen yeah and then when you
look at Toronto it's very socialized uh
environment like it's very City life
right so the cultural influence also has
an attribute towards that apart from the
legal side of it if I'm not wrong it's
very subtle right like certain I I
practice in Miss
Saga and so I am in peel region but you
know there is a different culture among
lawyers too you may get a lawyer who's
closer to your
personality or who understands the
Nuance of your situation or the
background better better if it's some
from your neighborhood yeah no that's
true that's true this is this topic has
been very interesting I know the the
questions have been very sensitive and
the answers too but you know you
weathered through it and you know gave
us the information that we were really
craving to hear um and also for the
listeners like you know I know this is a
very touchy subject but it's always good
to know like as long as you know where
to turn to in situations that you you
know you might know someone else who's
going through this and they might need
to hear it so please go ahead share this
episode with them and tell them and you
know guide them in the prop proper path
to talk to the leaders like you know um
a family lawyer yes It's tricky to be a
lawyer on
camera thank you Jonathan so much for
joining us again today and you know
sharing your valuable insights into
family law and you know I I hope this
episode bring value to you please go
ahead and subscribe for valuable
episodes coming up u in prospering your
wealth and your life I'll see you on the
next episode any Legal Information
obtained during this video may not be
applicable to your particular
circumstances if you have a legal
concern you should consult with a lawyer
who can give you the specific
information and advice that you deserve
Jonathan Klein has practiced family law
exclusively for almost 20 years and has
represented clients successfully with
settlements trials and appeals at all
levels of court in Ontario thank you for
spending your time with us on the
Stellar talk show we hope you found
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