9. The Night Witches

The Night Witches: Soviet Women's Bravery in WWII

In this episode of She Changed History, Simon and Vicky explore the remarkable story of the Night Witches, an all-female Soviet bomber regiment during World War II. The episode details the challenges these women faced, from ill-fitting uniforms to outdated equipment, and showcases their unmatched bravery and resilience. It highlights key figures like Marina Raskova, the 'Mother of the Night Witches,' and delves into their tactics, contributions, and the legacy they left. This fascinating recount shatters stereotypes and celebrates the extraordinary courage of these female aviators who significantly impacted the course of the war.

Send your stories to: shechangedhistory@gmail.com

Sources are:

My Favorite Murder podcast Episode 406

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3ykh158XwyxOWmDGyDOtZe

“The Little-Known Story of the Night Witches, an All-Female Force in WWII” by Eric Grundhauser (Vanity Fair) 2015

“Marina Raskova and the Night Witches” by Rachele Momi (Grey Dynamics) 2022

“Night Witches: The Female Russian Combat Unions of the Sky” by Jessie-Lee Smith (The Collector) 2023

“Who Were The Soviet Night Witches?” by Emilie Le Beau Lucchesi (Discover

Magazine) 2022

“The Soviet Night Witches” blog post, no author listed (Wright Museum of WWII) 2020

“Marina Raskova” (Wikipedia)

“Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union” no author listed (Imperial War Museums)

“Nadezhda Popova, WWII ‘Night Witch,’ Dies at 91” by Douglas Martin (New York

Times) 2013

00:00 Introduction

00:23 Meet the Enthusiastic Ceramicist

01:18 Welcome to She Changed History

02:04 The Night Witches: WWII's Fearless Female Pilots

02:44 Research and Sources on the Night Witches

03:11 Redefining the Image of Witches

03:37 The Soviet Union's WWII Context

06:43 Marina Raskova: The Mother of the Night Witches

11:38 Formation of the Female Aviation Regiments

16:07 Challenges Faced by the Night Witches

17:34 The Outdated Equipment of Female Pilots

18:33 Challenges Faced by Female Pilots

20:28 Tactical Innovations and Night Missions

22:38 Recognition and Legacy of the Night Witches

25:08 Heroic Stories and Unyielding Spirit

29:47 Impact and Modern-Day Comparisons

35:47 Conclusion and Reflections

Transcript

audio1887470712: 0:08

I've done one in Hereford most recently, but not the Simmons Yacht Pottery. Is that, are they good? It's called Yacht Pottery, but it's in Ross. Oh yeah. Nice yellow sign. It's a really good art shop as well. Got a nice lot of stuff in there. And the guy was really lovely. he's very technical and very knowledgeable, obviously, and he, I just love are just at one with what they do, you know what I mean, like, he's just so happy he's found his thing. He loves ceramics. Oh, that's gorgeous, isn't it? It was like oozing out of him and, yeah. That is more you buy into isn't it than the shop or anything. It's more the guy. So yeah, he was really sweet. And I just love it. I love it when have found their thing and yeah, it was, it doesn't really matter what that thing is. Oh my gosh. I'm such a sucker. I'll come along with anything. Oh my gosh, you want to do watercolours? Great! you know what I mean? Whatever it is, let's go. I'm fully on board. If you're passionate about it, let's go. So I'm, like a little leech. I leech onto people and their hobbies, so, rather than make my own. Shall we do this? Let's go. Hi everyone. Welcome back to She Changed History with me, Simon. I'm Vicky. Hi. Hi Vicky. How are you doing? Hello. I'm good. Moved back into the office today, so I don't have, I think A wonderful green background. And my map, I feel like the map weirdly gave me a lot of gravitas in my background, and this is a very neutral Petru, so I feel like I've lost my gravitas, which is a bit sad. I think the dressing gown is really adding gravitas for you. It's just the same, it's just the same, it's a real intellectual's dressing gown, that is. Yes, thank you, thank you. Bye bye. What have you got for us today? So this one is very, I say this about them all, but this one's very exciting. I know. So imagine this, a cold, silent night during World War II. Suddenly, the sound of the wind whispers above as planes, barely visible, glide through the darkness, their engines cut, undetectable, until bombs begin to rain down. These were no ordinary pilots. They were the Night Witches, an all female Soviet bomber regiment that outsmarted the Nazis using wooden aeroplanes, unmatched bravery, and sheer courage. Get ready to uncover the extraordinary story of these fearless women who turned the tide of war under the cover of sound pretty exciting. It sounds so cool. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, we've got lots of sources. I first found this story on, my favorite murder podcast, episode 406. So that's where I kind of started my research and there's loads more in there. There's a Vanity Fair article from 2015. there's a Grey Dynamics article from 2022. Um, Discover magazine article also from 2022. Loads and loads and loads. So we'll pop those in our show notes as always. so the Night Witches. When you think of witches, I dunno, what do you think when I say witch? Uh, sort of hacked woman on a broom. Hacked. You can say hacked, but you know, sort of, uh, gnarly. And warty. And gnarly. Cackling. Narly. Love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So evil. old is another one, isn't it? Like cauldrons patients, all that kind of stuff. I'm going to tear that notion away from you and rip it up into lots of little pieces because this one is very much, so it's quite modern ish history, we're in World War II, a little bit of war context, obviously we know what World War II is about, but it's a very specific part of World War II. In 1939, Germany invaded Poland and there was a a Molotov ribbon drop pact between the Soviet Union and Germany to avoid mutual aggression. So basically Stalin and Hitler were like had a little bit of a peace, troops, and in 1941, Hitler, being Hitler, broke that pact on June the Couldn't trust him, could you? Well, it's just very Hitler, it's a very Hitler thing to do. Classic Hitler. Classic Hitler. Um, so this prompted Stalin to retaliate. there is an argument that if Hitler hadn't have broken this pact, that He would have won the war basically because this amount of retaliation Stalin and Soviet Union was just unrivaled. so the Soviet Union was undertaken by Germany and Stalin expanded all his efforts. So tanks, aviation, everything of the Red Army. Enter women. women in, war took roles that you would expect them to take. So I'm thinking nurses, I'm thinking sewing, making the uniforms, basically anything on land, anything on land, on high territory. Maintenance. That's it. Yeah. In, Soviet Union, women were completely banned from air force. in its entirety. Some women were actually in the sniper teams and some of them made ditch traps, which are traps in a ditch that trap tanks, basically is what it says, what it says on the tin. And I was like, yes, this is, this is what I thought it makes a lot of sense. So they were doing, they were doing little physical stuff, but like you said, but mainly supportive maintenance roles. Right. these women were. angry, upset. They had gone through so much loss already in terms of family, their home, land. They've been betrayed politically and otherwise. And they were, they were angry, which is a lot of women that we cover. They are angry women. Yeah. it's usually some sort of injustice that kicks these things off. Absolutely. Do you think they were, were they sort of smarting for a fight? Did they want to get involved and fight someone, whoever that may be? Absolutely. They really sought out these combat roles. They wanted, and I think some of that is cultural as well. So Many Soviet women already had experience of things like flying planes. It was just part of their culture. Their land is very different to our land. It's very vast. Yeah. And it was quite a usual thing. It wasn't unheard of, of women to be flying. Enter Marina Raskova. Who has been dubbed, which I love this term, the mother of the night, which an amazing title. That's cool. So who is Marina? She was born on March 28th, 1912. And when she was little, she wanted to be an opera singer, which isn't that just the cutest thing, love it. Yeah. At the age of 13, her father died when he was hit by a motorcycle. He wasn't hit, uh, died in the impact. He actually dies from infection And. Because of that loss of a patriarch, like many of the other women we've covered on the podcast, she was expected to help financially. So Marina worked to support her family, studying engineering and chemistry. Wow. She worked as a chemist in a dye factory, so dyeing fabrics. She married and then she actually later joined the Air Force in a technical role. And by technical role, I mean like technical drawings and plans and using that mathematics and engineering. So she really understands the design of aircraft, how they work, how they function. Absolutely. Yeah. And this was for aircraft at the time. She excels at that. She's very, very good. She has a great reputation. she's pulling on all these different strings that she has. One year later. She starts practicing to become a pilot and also an instructor. So she's, this is her thing, this is her jam, she's loving it. She's clever, she's got the skills to Just like she was very good at technical drawings, turns out she's very good at flying. So she becomes the first female aviation instructor in the Soviet Union in 1933. She is part of the flying club in Tohishino. So she's like 21 when she does that. I know. It's great, isn't it? She officially becomes one in 1935. At this time she actually divorces, so she was married and had a child before that, because she, and it's a very conscious decision for her so she can focus on her career. It's very much cited as this is me, this is what I want to do, I feel I want to take the path, And she does that, so she racks up loads and loads of hours of flying experience. She sets multiple international flight records, for example, the 998 mile non stop flight on October the 24th, 1937. She's so good at flying. She is awarded Hero of the Soviet Union and the Order of the Lenning. She also gains fame during this time. Mm-Hmm. And she becomes known as the Soviet's Amelia Earhart which is like a similar timeframe. Yeah. So she's racking up these hours. She's racking up this experience. We know she's got good technical skills because of where she started. And now we know that she's got really good practical skills as well. wonder if in Russia, when they talk about Amelia Earhart, they describe her as the American Marina Raskova. I really hope so. If not, we should write to them. I hope there's that symmetry. Yes, so because she's very good and she's got all this fame, she actually gets to meet Stalin, who shows great admiration for what she's achieved. It's quite, meritocracy kind of rise actually. So it's somebody who worked very hard, and got rewarded for that. He, issues a commemorative stamp because he's so impressed And Marina has a lot of pride for her country. She's very patriotic. at this time, so this is when the timelines overlap slightly. So we've got Hitler breaking his pact and then we've got Marina's coming up through the ranks and she actually starts lobbying Stalin to allow women into combat roles. So she's using her position of newly Found power and nearly found fame to hero of the Soviet Union just casually Um, so she uses that to break the mold basically and be like, what are you talking about? I'm perfect Yeah. And like, nobody can with that, with her sort of international records and her experience in designing, and she's like being given this highest honor of the country. Nobody can then say, Oh, well, no women can't fly planes. Yeah, exactly. Here I am. Look at my stamp. Yeah. Look at my stamp. That is such an awesome brag. Yeah. Look at my stamp, bitches. Look at it, man. So she lobbies him successfully. Stalin says yes, which is great. So, um, this leads to, Marina forming three regiments, all women, all female aviation regiments, she's like, overseeing it all really. So he suddenly allows women to draft it for the war of the people who, drafted 1000 are chosen to serve and. obviously the war is raging on and they have to do this quickly, so they have to be trained up quite quick. Normally when you enter aviation, it's 18 months of training that men are normally given. Um, but you know, Hitler's doing his thing. That means they only have six months to do the same amount of training. So they come up with a training plan. Yeah. They managed to cut a year out of that and, and they worked very hard. So this is in plane maintenance, navigation, combat, piloting, the whole shebang, right? So Marina sets up three squadrons, The first is the 586th Fighter Aviation Regiment. This is commanded by Tamara Cazza Renova, sadly, very quickly, dies in combat so she's lost quite early on. She is later replaced by Alexander Grid who is a man so that quickly becomes a mixed gender regiment. this is the first regiment that is set up and because of that it gets the best recruits into that squadron. Okay. And it kind of leaves little recognition when compared to the other two regiments. Mm-Hmm. So it's first come, first serve kind of vibe. it also included the pilot, Liliana Li Litvac, who was the first woman to shoot down an enemy plane, and ballerina Kova, who is the first woman to shoot down an enemy aircraft at night. So these women are doing it They're trained, they've worked really hard, they're, you know, patriotic, they're amazing things. And just that any pilot on any side was able to shoot down any plane is incredible, because I mean there's no like guided missiles back then, there's no heat seeking missiles, there's no fire and forget, they're just pointing their plane in a direction with this machine gun on the front. That is such a good point, the, their equipment compared to today's is your polar polar opposites apart. And I think sometimes we forget that don't mean because we talk about these walls a lot. it kind of negates that a little bit, I and, like we spoke about it previously Ella Hatton, pistols and they're different pistols. Yeah, today we have like an automatic gun was that it. requires to a certain extent less skill, you could argue, couldn't you? Yeah, so my grandfather was a navigator in the RAF in World War II. Oh my gosh. But I mean, he grew up in London when there were still horses in the streets making deliveries. Of course. And they had like multi storey stables. in the middle of the city. So this is, it's like really a transition period. There's, we don't have computers at this time. There's no, there's nothing high tech, it's very much sort of still these technological remnants of the Victorian era. I always think that, um, notch, in Peaky Blinders, because they start off on horses, don't they? And then by the end, he's got like a fleet of cars, yeah, it's just the same. It's exactly the same, yeah. So that's the first regiment. The second regiment is the 587th Bomber Regiment. This is originally led by Marina Raskova herself. And then the final regiment, 588th Night Bomber Regiment, is the one we're going to talk about today, because they became the Night Now, because it's the third regiment, If all the great people went into the first, and this is the third, your skill is slightly down. Okay. the also the only regiment that remained completely And this is in every role. So I'm thinking pilots, I'm thinking maintenance, I'm thinking technical, I'm thinking navigation, every role, top to front to back, was had a woman in place. This regiment became the most famous regiment due to their tactics And their awesome name. And there's a really cool story behind the name So, um, pulling on what you just mentioned earlier, the equipment and these women are not set up for success, I think is the headline. They're not set up to do much really, so they're given hand me down uniforms that are ill fitting, they're made for male soldiers and they're cumbersome. They got to the point where they actually impeded action, do what they wanted to do. The other thing with their uniforms is their boots. So they were all given hand me down men's boots. They were all issued with a size 42 boot regardless. And because of this, and also their calves are different sizes, everything, these boots just didn't stay on. Like they were useless and it got to the point where they were so ill-fitting that the women taught up bedsheets, stuffed the bedsheets in the boots so they could stay on. I don't mind wearing a war, right? Yeah. We're trying to fight the enemy right here. It's really not ideal. I'm not saying, I'm not saying the men's uniform was perfect, but imagine that on a hand me down that is not Mm-Hmm. Fit for issue. Right. The women also cut their hair really short, so they weren't recognized as women by the enemies. One of the pilots would later recall in an interview, quote, we didn't recognize ourselves in the mirror. We were all boys out oh, just such a powerful line. On top of that, that's the uniform. On top of that, we've got the equipment. So, the best planes went to the best regiments, much like the skills. the planes were outdated. The women were given a Polikopah Potu, which is made of wood and canvas. And it's intended for dusting crops in a field. That's what we're using right here. I've looked up a picture of them, and it looks like, There's sort of, as you imagine, a real old school chugging along, sort of biplane. That's it. Um, you imagine a fella sitting in there with a scarf over his neck, sort of fluttering out the back, and a moustache and the goggles sort of thing. And you can even see where the, the canvas is stretched over the wooden ribs of the plane. I mean, it's amazing that it flies. Yeah. I wouldn't fancy going to war with your little head sticking out the top. Again, these women are meant to be in fighter jets. This is a farming. Yeah, it's outdated. It's very slow. It's got an open cockpit. Like you said, like you can see who's in there, which means the women are completely uncovered. They have no protection. It also limits what they can carry on board because it's so weak. It also can't fly as high. As the men's planes, which means they are much closer to the enemy's land and the enemy's And, you know, just bombs in general. Um, Because it is an open cockpit, this led to frostbite because as well as everything else, the planes lacked insulation. Um, it doesn't have any lights. Why would it? Um, which means that. Because they were flying at night. This is the night regimen and they had to be guided purely by the stars. Wow I know on top of that. They have no navigation equipment. They relied on a map and a Yeah, I'm trying to find sort of silver linings here but no lights suggests they're quite stealthy I don't imagine they're very loud Um, and like they can't have their equipment jammed or anything. I wonder if they even showed up on radar being wood and canvas. I love how positive you're feeling. Fabulous. I believe in them though. that's the little speech I try and give to them. It's like, no, no, no, these aren't rubbish planes. These are exactly the planes that we need. Um, they couldn't carry parachutes due to restricted weight limits and, Like you said, one spark, because they're wooden, it could literally catch fire. Like, you know, this is as dangerous as it could possibly be. Fighting. This is, we're in a strong danger zone. But what did they do, Simon? They used this to their advantage. So hold on all that positive thinking. Oh, I love it. Great. So, they flew in groups of three, so three planes, one in the middle had the bomb, two were decoy planes, so they would peel off in opposite directions, and the middle one would drop the bomb. Nazis had big floodlights on the ground, so the timing had to be just right, so they weren't detected. This was a real skill, and what would happen is, so the two planes have peeled off, floodlights are going crazy. the navigator would tap the pilot on the shoulder because they can't make any noise and that was their sign to cut the engine So now you're gliding right, you're mid air, you're coasting silently over these targets unseen and unheard because we're in the thick of night. They position themselves over the enemy below and then they drop the bombs completely undetected. This was too late for the Nazis to even know they were going to do it. But it's cool. not for the Nazis, but that's. And the only reason they could do that was because their planes are so crap, like, because they were rickety odd things and they were light, so they could glide, you know, they used that to their advantage. Yeah, a hundred percent. Um, then they would aren't loads that would be able to sort of glide for long like that, I wouldn't have thought. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Because they could only carry two bombs at a time, they'd have to return to base, reload, and then go again. So, they would keep changing formations, so the person on the outside would then go on the And they would keep doing this all night long, which is amazing. So they would do anything between eight and eighteen missions per night. So they were really refining this, they were getting really good. Oh man, it must have pissed the Nazis off. Oh god, that's irritating, isn't it? It's the best. So it was the Nazis that actually gave them the nickname, uh, Nachhausen, which is night witches because of their stealth and their efficiency. There was also rumours amongst the Nazis that whoever were flying these planes, because they didn't know, took pills or had some kind of chemical for cat like night vision. Oh, that's great. They probably started that rumour themselves. You know what I've heard. but also because, you know, they, women can't possibly be doing this. It must be some pill. It must be some chemical. It's got to be some sort of supernatural woman. Yeah. the fear of the night, which is was so strong that if a German soldier shot down a night, which they would be awarded an iron cross, which is one of the highest medals you could get. Yeah, because the fear of these night vultures was so strong. the Nazis didn't actually know that these planes were flown by women, because imagine if they did know. If they did know. You know, it'd be straight to the concentration camps. Yeah, a hundred percent. And they, you know, the women would go, you'd never see them again, would you? If they got caught. Yeah. There would be absolutely no mercy. the women were doing astonishingly well at this and they did over 300 runs So they're getting really good results. I think it's really important to note that how hard these women were working with all the, all the hurdles that were in their way. Sadly, the Soviet Union men in the armies and the Red Army didn't take the women seriously, despite them doing so well. But look at the results of what they're achieving. The women were completely undeterred by the lack of faith from the men, thank God. And they actually ended up embracing the fact that they were different. So they would paint flowers on the aircraft and they would make sure when they went out, they did their lips bright red, like out on the town. Yeah. They were like, no, we are women and we're going to own that, their bravery was absolutely unmatched throughout this. It was the amount of danger they were in. We could not understate. It's crazy. Yeah. And to continue going out even without the support from the other sort of regiments as well. To just be really working, doing their own thing in their own way. Yeah, and you're still fighting for your country. That's still what you're doing. You're still having this patriotic symbolism. You know, you're still putting your life on the So, yeah. Yeah, um, there was a notable incident, which I think epitomizes everything we've been talking about. So in December 1942, so dead of winter, there was an air raid, by a pilot called Nina. Her plane was hit by a German missile and it ripped out the entire cockpit. So she's still in the seat. Her legs are dangling. She's bleeding from shrapnel all over. The Germans have night So these floodlights and they temporarily blinded her. She's trying to gain control of this aircraft, because she didn't want to land in the enemy territory, which makes complete sense. Imagine if you landed in the German territory. Somehow she manages to retain, control and navigate to a neutral territory, not her own basement neutral ground. Mm-Hmm. and her and her navigator both survive that Wow. So even without a cockpit and her legs just dangling, she manages to navigate her way in the dead of night to safety. So these little planes are pretty resilient actually, if they're sort of taking a missile strike and still able to navigate back. Yeah, I don't know. Because it helps that they're so basic. Yeah, and I imagine navigate back means glide. I imagine, yeah. They'd surely be gliding. I think we're in hang glider territory at this point. But you know, she still did it. Um, when they get back to base, they have surgery, both of them. And As soon as they, completed their surgery back, they got back in their plane and they went again. I love that spirit. yeah, it's really impressive. Absolutely. And that's just one story. Yeah, to maintain the presence of mind once you've been hit. To actually think to navigate somewhere neutral. And still have the willpower to then get back to somewhere that can help. Yeah. Rather than just sort of totally Because these aren't, these aren't lifelong combat veterans, are they become. Okay. Yeah.

audio1761446526: 27:19

The women, like you said, they had skill and like I said, there was some level of flying ability, but they actually continued to have really successful careers in combat, in For their country, many became lieutenant colonels, they had varied careers at all levels, remember, so they kind of infiltrated the system, using the war to infiltrate that because again, these are all STEM subjects, aren't they? They're all things that, Historically, women have struggled to get into, and, they seized that did amazingly well, their tenacity of this and using that plane to their It's. It's wild, over the course of the war, the regiment logged 2, 672 combat missions between them they destroyed 7 river crossings, 9 railways, 2 railway stations, 26 warehouses, 12 fuel droves, 176 armed cars and 11 searchlights. So they were good. Yeah, yeah. They were really causing havoc though. Right, this is so important. They were contributing to that war. They were slowing the enemy down. They were causing hard hitting damage and protecting, you know, protecting their country in a real tangible And like those 11 searchlights they took out, or 11 fewer searchlights, to look for the other planes that are flying out from the other regiments. It sort of all contributes, isn't it? It's really a single standout action that does it. It's about everyone chipping away. I love it. On top of that, they also delivered 155 aid drops of food and ammunition across their across Soviet land. I mean, based on how much they could carry, I'd imagine a food drop is basically a sandwich. Or is it a single serving of borscht? It's true, just some, like, I'm a celebrity. That's all you're getting. That's all you're getting. Yeah, it's true. But they must have had a certain level of accuracy, even though they only had a compass and a map. The accuracy is what I can't fathom. Well yeah, I mean to get a searchlight or an armed car, that's pretty spot on. So they must have been flying pretty low as well. It's just everything about it sounds incredibly dangerous. Unfortunately, Maria Raskova was killed in combat in So just concluded, her bravery and vision is fully recognized And she became the first member of the Soviet military state So this, yeah, post war. And I think that kind of harks back to her political, an um, I was going to say vibe, but that's not the word, like Oh, she's got a total vibe. Yeah. Yeah, vibe is really what she was aiming for when she embarked on all so hard for that word and I was like, it's not there, it's not there. Thread, maybe like a thread. That's a hit and a miss right there, Vicky. It was, it really was. It's because I haven't written it down. If I leave my notes and ad lib it all goes wrong. Swing and a miss is what I meant. It's not a hit and a miss, you can't hit it and miss it. Oh no, now you're doing it, now you're doing it. Oh god, now I've been vickied. Disgusting. I infect, I infect and spread. Um, yeah, which shows how How valued she was, I think, by the ruling class, to have a, and be the first member to have a military state funeral, and for it to be a woman, and for her to have made herself in that position. She wasn't given that position, she made herself have that position. Purely on, purely on merit, wasn't it? merit and hard work. I mean, she was a hero of the Soviet Union before any of this. So afterwards, I mean, she already had the medal in the stamp. Yeah. And it just kind of encapsulates not her fame, but her, that position and how cool it Did that she passed that ladder made sure other skills were it's very under think, which is the purpose of this podcast. We find women you don't know about who history. her ashes are in red square and she was given the order of because, uh, not? Um, that is a class for war. Heroics, a And she is forever known as Mother of the Night Very cool. What do you think her legacy is, today? Is she still spoken about in the Soviet Union? Do people still find it sort of compelling? The fact that her ashes are in Red Square, that is jewel, isn't it, of Russia. I think her legacy in Russia is known. I think that's but is it known to the right extent, the question. the story is celebrated. They, there was more stamps, so more stamps were issued in their honor. They do love a stamp. Love a commemorative stamp. Probably a first day cover. It's true. It's true. their legacy in deals with symbolism of resilience and empowerment, despite the lack of support from their male counterparts. So I don't know what It sounds like Stalin was obviously that doesn't fall straight down into the rest but then that's know. I do think people know her, but I don't think the get at. No, no, never heard it. But, what a story. What a fascinating thing. That's incredible. Fascinating. incredible and the pictures in these pictures that they look happy and they look just like energized by this like yeah kind of i'm doing good and i know obviously they're posing for but like i do think This is what pisses me off that they're all, when you think of war, you think of a skinny, young Boy, that's what you think of. But there's so many other There's so many different types of soldier. There's so many other cultures that were involved. Yeah. Oh my gosh. we're, we're going to Poland. Aren't we soon? Which is very exciting. And that's one of the reasons I want to go because I want to learn the what happened because they were absolutely devastated by the war but we don't know that This picture that you've got of them, when I think of pictures of soldiers in the war, usually, particularly World War One, and World War Two, as are like conscripts, and probably not that chuffed to be there, whereas they've got a look about them of sort of pride in what they're doing, and a real, almost like a privilege to be doing it, proud to be there, proud to be doing their bit. The story actually really reminds me, modern day aircraft, I say modern, I think it's really sort of late 70s. It came out, but it's still in active service today. It's called the Warthog. It's the A10 Thunderbolt. It's a US plane. and it's not a sexy fighter. You think of a fighter jet, you think of sort of Top Gun, and Tom Cruise going around and, uh, like, total alpha male yeehawing through the sky. Oh, really? Yeah. But then you have the Warthog, and it's, it's subsonic, but it does a lot of troop support, and it's absolutely crucial for actually supporting ground troops either getting them out of trouble or assisting in whatever their mission is and it's almost indestructible like some of them come back missing an engine they got bullet holes all through them but they still keep on flying and it reminds me of Nina with her legs dangling out underneath but she's been on the mission and there's a lot of female pilots fly warthogs far more than the sort of fast jets what you think of as the dog fighting jets but these are real workhorses of planes in the infantry type Wars Reminded me a lot of them. So that's the Love it. Thank you very much. Thank you. I will change my first thought of witches from now on. Oh, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've smashed through so many stereotypes today. None of these women look warty or haggard. Not yet. Not yet, no. No, that's awesome. Well, thank you, Vicky. Thank you. Thank you so much for all your support we're having a lovely Yeah, thanks for all your feedback and comments and suggestions, I'm sure we'll have one of your suggested, we'll have an episode soon. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Please, if you enjoyed it, rate, subscribe, comment, share with your friends, share with your mother, your father. And yeah, we'll see you for another Cheers all. Bye. Bye.