16. Victoria Woodhull: From Fortune Teller to Presidential Candidate

Victoria Woodhull: The Unstoppable Force

Got a story? Email shechangedhistory@gmail.com

In this episode, we delve into the extraordinary life of Victoria Woodhull, who transitioned from a poverty-stricken childhood to become a pioneer in finance, journalism, and women's rights. We explore her journey from being a fortune teller to the first female Wall Street tycoon, her radical beliefs in free love, and her historic run for the U.S. presidency. With notable successes and intense criticisms, Victoria's life was a series of groundbreaking achievements and relentless challenges. We also discuss the impact of her ventures on the women's suffrage movement and her persistent fight for equality.

Other episodes mentioned today: 1. Ching Shih

Sources today are:
https://www.womenshistory.org/education-resources/biographies/victoria-woodhull
https://wams.nyhistory.org/industry-and-empire/fighting-for-equality/victoria-woodhull/
https://time.com/6107025/victoria-woodhull-free-love-movement/
https://brucewatson4.medium.com/victoria-for-president-in-1872-38d20013d13a
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Woodhull
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Woodhull

00:00 Behind the Scenes: Recording Challenges
00:49 Introducing Kara: The New Co-Host
02:05 Victoria Woodhull: A Remarkable Journey Begins
03:47 Early Life Struggles and Family Turmoil
07:44 Marriage and Misfortune
09:51 Embracing Free Love and New Beginnings
15:58 Financial Independence and Wall Street Success
19:53 Advocating for Radical Social Reforms
23:08 Victoria Woodhull's Political Ambitions
28:16 Challenges and Criticisms
33:08 The Downfall and Legacy of Victoria Woodhull
36:23 Reflections on Victoria Woodhull's Impact
38:59 Closing Remarks and Personal Anecdotes

Transcript

audio1246976076: 0:08

That's why it takes us four hours to record a 20 minute episode. You actually only get 20 minutes of usable material. I understand. I've known you a while now. I'm unsurprised. I also didn't get the, um, the costume memo from either of you. flannel shirts. Yeah, I'm pretty much from July till like May the 3rd. It's flannel, flannel season. There's like two weeks of summery dresses. But other than that, it's flannel season. And Simon obviously is part of the same tribe. Love it, love it, love it, love it. I'll take note. Nice. do you want to go? Shall we go? Cool. Hi, Vicky. Hi, Simon. How are you? Yeah, very well, thanks. How are you doing? I'm good, thank you. Good, good. We, we've been invaded. We have, yeah. The American invasion of 2025. Get the year rolling. Oh, well, the first American invasion of 2025. Let's leave, let's leave it open to what may come. Oh, you might recognize Kara's voice from our, trailer. Very kindly did a bit of voiceover for us. You were the, filthy seductress who did a few lines for us on that. Now you being here, there's two pieces of news really. One is, I'm having a baby. With my wife, and I'm the dad, yeah. So that's cool, and I suspect that's going to take up a bit of time. So whilst I'm busy learning how to keep a child alive, Cara's going to step in and do a few episodes in my absence. And so joining us today, just to Learn the ropes. Yeah, just a gentle introduction we were thinking rather than dropping you in the deep end. So it's so lovely to have you here. Thank you very much. Long time listener, first time visitor, so I appreciate it. Love it. I've got a story for you today. You ready? cool. So this is about a lady called Victoria Woodhall. I've got a little intro here. From fortune teller to Wall Street tycoon, presidential candidate to scandalous headline maker, Victoria defied every expectation of Victorian womanhood. Born into poverty, escaping an abusive marriage, she became a champion of free love, a financial powerhouse, and the first woman to run for the President of the United States. This is the unbelievable story of Victoria Woodhull. I thought you were going to bring us something impressive this week, Vicky. it says in there that this is an unbelievable story and it is, that's how I felt like when I was researching it. I was like, there's no way Simon's going to believe this. Like there's just no way that's going to happen at all. And then, because we've got an actual American with us today as well, it's kind of all serendipitous kind of come together, We've got some sources today, I've leaned on a couple of articles, womenshistory. org, there's a new site called nyhistory. org, a Times article which was really useful, and there was a blog post called Victoria for President, and then a couple of Wikipedia articles as well. Have you, Cara, have you heard of Victoria Woodhull? No, but I am broadly ignorant, so don't let that be any indication. I just wondered, because it's like the first female, you know, you can see that being. I know, you would think, you would think that I should know all about this, but, no, I meant like the system, I meant like the education system, maybe it no, this is, it's always a mystery to me whether my ignorance is my own or whether it is actually, baked in, to the educational system and maybe both. Maybe it's a mix. Okay. Well, hopefully this will be fun. So, Victoria was born in Homer, Ohio on the 23rd of September, 1838. So we're right back in our comfort zone in Victorian times. She has parents called Reuben Bookman, Cleflin, and Roxanna Hummel. Roxanna went by Roxy. She was number seven out of ten children, which we're learning is quite normal, isn't it? Like to have, Lots of children. her childhood kind of was so tricky and turbulent. It's really fascinating Her parents were unmarried which today fine back then big deal and then probably the biggest turning point in her childhood was that her family was forced to leave their hometown under the suspicion of That her father had purposely burned down the mill he owned for an insurance payout because it had bad rot. So, they got that reputation, as that family in the town. Ostracised, their name went over a month. Ostracised, there you go, yeah. Also, did they not have shotgun weddings back then? It's like, normally if you get pregnant you just, quick, get married in a month. They made it through seven kids. I don't know if it was maybe a money thing because you have to pay to get married and then, we are on like the poverty line here. So, she was known to starve as a child. Her father was abusive. They lost siblings because their health was so bad. Victoria actually spent her early years. So after the whole burning down the mill situation, they went. on the run, in a way, so actually they joined a traveling show, and She and her sisters would tell fortunes so they were working at such a young age and selling homemade medicines. Her dad was what was known as a snake oil salesman. do you know anything about snake oil? Only from, that Simpsons episode where Homer and his dad sell this, male potency thing. The Simpsons are very good at predicting so maybe they were, maybe they were right, so snake oil is such a fascinating, I'd encourage people to go and research it because It's wild, it's completely insane. So basically they'd just take any old oil they could find, stick loads of spices and herbs, sometimes just some compounds, some sand or something in there, and then they would sell it. An overpriced rate. And then, um, it's basically fraud because then you'd say, This is this magic medicine and it will do all these magical things. And her dad did that for A living, right? Like, that's how he earned money. Wow. Like an early precursor to goop. Precursor to what? Goop. Oh, goop, the, which one's that? Oh, Gwyneth Paltrow. That's it, yay. We should cut that out, I don't want to get sued. Yes, that's all perfectly legitimate. She's got so many lawyers. Those crystal eggs are absolutely life changing. Um, so this went on snake oil until 1906 when under the pure food and drug act. that was when that came in and then you could end up facing federal prosecution for fraud. So actually we're in early 1800s, 1840s around that time. there was nothing stopping. There's a really interesting episode on snake oil, by the podcast called Maintenance Phase, and its impacts on the health industry and how it's manifested in today. If you really, you know, I thought it was really interesting. So definitely go and research that. because of all this poor Victoria, she didn't get much education. I think over time she had about three years worth of schooling at a local church school, so she wasn't necessarily educated either. And to be honest, she had a lot on. She had lots of fortunes to do, lots of traveling because she's part of a traveling show. and then again, not unusually for the time she was married at 15, to a guide called Canning Woodhull. And ironically, he was a doctor. So there's her dad selling medicine. He must have been considerably older than her unless people were also becoming doctors at age 15 in those times. Great point. So he's a little bit older. Yeah. So it's her. It turns out Canning was a lot like her father because, he sold patent medicines rather than snake oil with staphine, and he presented himself as a doctor, but there were no exams needed. You didn't need a license to be a doctor back then. It was very easy to pretend to be an expert, right? unfortunately, he was very much like her father. Her married life wasn't really any better than what she'd grown up with. He was an alcoholic and he was physically abusive. He cheated on Victoria many times and he failed to support the family financially as well. Because, you know, being a line doctor, I don't think is that, that fruitful. It's not sort of lucrative in the long term, is it? There's only so many times, you can be like, I found this thing. Trust me, it works. You know, so, they did have two children. They had a son called Byron and a daughter called Zulu. Byron actually had an intellectual disability, which Victoria put down to canning and his drinking. And, he wasn't fit physically to be a dad. Then Victoria does something very interesting. She divorces him in 1864. Divorced women back then were seen very much as outcasts of society, it wasn't a good reputation. But she might, that might not have bothered her because she had that thing with the fraud and the burning down of the mill. So she's already been seen as an outcast by society throughout her whole childhood. I suppose she's experienced the flip side of that, of having unmarried parents as well. So growing up she would have seen that reaction that she gets. Yeah, that's so interesting. And it's, she was also part of a movement called free love. So she, became very actively involved in the free love movement. Do you know what the free love movement is? Not in the 1800s. Great point. So this is before hippies. This is the generation and free love was founded by a utopian socialist and philosopher John Humphrey noise. he came up with the term free love in 1848. so very similar kind of timeframe. He's also known for starting a swingers community in upstate New York. That's where I was born. Wow, who knew? Yeah, they have a thriving swingers community, who knew? that seems like a risky time, because like the 60s, like, free love, hippie, that sort of sexual revolution in the 60s, coincided with birth control. Right. So this movement of free love was a reaction to the industrial revolution and that emphasis on capitalism. So they were like, this is greed orientated. This is, not the right values. We want these kinds of values. Therefore one of the. Values of free love is you should only stay with someone in a relationship if you were happy, not for mutual gain. So she didn't want to stay in her relationship with Canning because she wasn't happy. So that's what she did. it was born out of a reaction to early stage capitalism and as three people in late stage capitalism, maybe we should learn something from that, I don't know. So, Victoria then divorces. She actually finds herself a husband. He's actually quite cool. he's part of these free love movements. This is after, the Civil War. his name is Colonel James Harvey Blood. What a name. And there's no official record of them being married, but they've both said, that they got married in 1866, but we can't really find anything there's something slightly contradictory about being in a free love movement and getting married. Well, maybe they did air quotes marriage, you know what I mean? or like A commitment, what do we call it, like humanitarian marriage, where it's not necessarily in a church or anything, it's, you know, two humans saying, I like you a lot. so they, as a couple, moved to New York City. They take Victoria's sister Tennessee with them in 1868. Tennessee has a nickname called Tenny. So if you hear Tenny, that's who it is. Great nickname. I know. So cute. It's like Agatha and Taggy. I love that, I think that's adorable, it's very sweet. I like the tagging, that's nice, yeah. Yeah! Victoria then started a salon. Now salons also aren't what they are today. This was basically a space, like a club where you gathered and chatted about different topics and kind of influences on you at the time. So it's not a hair salon, it's just like a social kind of club. it's very much in my head when I read that I was like, oh, it's like Twitter. Like, it's like Twitter. It's way nicer than Twitter. Yeah, like. In the good old days of Twitter, yeah, Doing this salon work, she met many influential New Yorkers, and was very well known as a, conversationalist. She's, like, very good at work in a room, and, it's a talent, right? And I bet that's from traveling with the, they're not circuses though, but what would you call that? Like a traveling side show sort of side show. Yeah, kind of thing. I bet that's where she got those skills from. Yeah, I mean, being a fortune teller, you've got to be able to talk a lot without much to go on. That's so true. Yeah, you've got pull of those strings. Yeah, So, Victorian Tennessee continued doing spiritual advisory work, is what they're calling it now, so spiritual advisors. One of their clients was actually a recently widowed millionaire, because now she's got this massive network, because she's doing this salon. this millionaire was called Cornelius Vanderbilt, which is also a great Sounds like a villain to me. That sounds like yeah They were if it's the same Vanderbilt's how many can there be? They had massive estates. I know of them from Rhode Island because one of the great mansions was a Vanderbilt property. I'm sure of it Yeah. He's definitely, cemented in American history. I think I've heard them on some sort of podcast about railways as sort of most big families of that time started in railways. Of course. Yeah. Cause it's industrial revolution. Right. so they allegedly helped Cornelius contact his dead wife. So that's, he really valued them. He was like, oh my gosh, you've helped me do this. They also advised him on financial decisions and he also taught them a lot of financial education as well. So they just basically connected and they learned how to invest from Cornelius. it really helped that Cornelius had a crush on Tenny. he really fancied her. his little pet name for her was Little Sparrow, and he actually ended up proposing to Tenny as well. Tenny called him Old Boy, which is not as nice, and politely declined his proposal, she said. Little Sparrow. Tenterhooks. Yes, Sweaty Pigeon. Absolutely. Predatory hawk. I know, because the age gap would be strong, maybe that's the thing, isn't it? A bit of niche Vanderbilt trivia for you. Mm hmm. At the end of the 19th century, Blenheim Palace was saved by ruins from funds gained from the Vanderbilts. Oh my gosh, I love Blenheim Palace, it's amazing. Wow. Thank you. so they've got Cornelius on board, Victoria believed that financial success was the key to all women's independence, even more so than the right to vote. So what did she do? It then goes into a really tight timeline. So the next four or five years, a lot happened. So Victoria took all that knowledge she'd got from Cornelius and she actually took action. In 1869, there was a panic that crashed the gold market. What Victoria chose to do was just rock up, rock up to, Wall Street and set up a carriage outside the gold exchange, then offered advice that she'd taken from Cornelius, and then bought deflated stocks during the panic crash of the gold market. She made 700, 000. Wow. from her little carriage outside and buying stocks. Cornelius was like, I like this. I like this a lot. I like what you're thinking. And he helped them set up a stock brokerage firm called Woodhull, Claffin and Company, which then opened the next year in 1870. This stock brokerage firm was I know. Um, and even, even better, I think, was that it was exclusively for female clients. So they really niched down on this market. Only females were allowed to go to this brokerage. So we've had other stories, from around this time where women weren't even allowed to start companies. It had to be done in their husband's name and all their assets belonged to their husband. Did they have to, did they have to get sneaky to set this up? Not necessarily. I think their clientele were, to be honest, widows, like widowhood, because we know that's a really, good way to protect your money. And also, you know, women did get pocket money as well, and I think maybe husbands assumed they were going to spend it on dresses, and actually this was a different way of protecting it. So, they targeted women, Who wanted to protect their money and invest it and no one would take them seriously So they you know, they'd maybe approach brokerages in the past and were turned away There's even a sign in the window that stated gentlemen will state their business and then retire at once My mum's got the same sign on her front door Quite right. Absolutely. Basically they made a splash in the headlines of having women on, on Wall Street, women in the stock exchange, women buying gold, and that novelty kind of wore off a little bit, and people just thought it was maybe a fad, but actually they continue to make good money, this company, they continue to make really good decisions, and they actually ended up earning other brokers respect in the industry. They were actually known as the Queen of Finance. So that was Tenny and Victoria's nickname. That's wicked. And so often in these companies, you have, like, they start off, women can't possibly do this, or they're not allowed to, or how on earth can a woman ride a horse? That sort of thing. And then it comes along and, they kick ass and prove that, in fact, it can happen. And this, like, action seems to be what changes Grudland merely protesting or advocating it. They're getting out there, doing it, proving these people wrong. I know. I feel like we should be doing that. But, you know, that's the thing. Internal pressure, but like, um, it's really, it's really, interesting that they, they weren't just that a hot flash in the pan, they didn't want to be that they wanted to be continued success, which is really cool. So they had a decent business. It wasn't just propaganda and snake oil underneath it. Well, I'd remember the really tight timeline we're talking about here. So, the next bit is three months after they started their business, they used their profit. So they're profitable three months in, and then they actually launched a newspaper called Woodhall and Clathvin Weekly. This newspaper was, again, them taking action, just what you were saying, them wanting to be part of something bigger. And they published articles, including Arguing for equal treatment of women, giving women the right to vote, reforming labor practices, legalizing prostitution. So this is again, those free love values coming through. They wanted a reform on dress codes. They spoke about sex education, which was completely taboo at the time. They spoke about their spiritual backgrounds, um, vegetarianism. They were even like, maybe you should do it, that's neat. Yeah, and all this was underpinned by those values of free love that we spoke about earlier, about, kind of pushing back a little bit on capitalism and actually, love is love, we're all, everyone's welcome, kind of thing. This is, I can't necessarily comment on the free love. side of it, but that's such a contemporary set of topics for a magazine. And I mean, you think even these days, like, what's the Daily Mail supplement? Female or something. You get a female specific supplement in the paper that's purely about, here's a good place to buy a dress that a celebrity wore, and here's a meal you can cook for your husband. But to have a magazine that's actually going out and tackling these issues. they're not easy issues either, like legalising prostitution and sex education. And vegetarianism, that's like the three big hitters to tick off, isn't it? Bloody hell, Jesus! But they, again, they did this off their own back, which was fascinating. They had a writer who wrote a lot for each issue called Stephen Pearl Andrews, who was, the promoter of, a new, another social system called Pantrarchy. P A N T A R C Y. C H Y, which was a theory rejecting conventional marriage and advocating for free love, combined with the communal management of children and poverty. So it takes a village that kind of vibe. Proper hippie stuff. Really strong. they did get criticism. you don't want to go and use that brokerage because they believe in this. so their reputation, not tarnished by this, but that they linked the two up and they did have their critics because it was so radical, I guess, compared to what had come before. Really out of that sort of conservative Victorian times. Yes, you've got, this is Victorian, think of like Victorian dresses and stuff like that, crazy. Yeah. we know that Woodhull obviously supported these views, she actually was also invited to write a series of articles for the New York Herald off the back of her Stop Break of Fame exploring these topics. So she's got two publications now that she's contributing to, which is insane. And that was the thing that kind of drop fed her to be like, actually, there's enough here to make a paper. So she was really involved in it. It wasn't just a, here's an idea, you go and do it. She was very much on the ground with it all. so this kind of gives us an insight into who Victoria is. I think it's quite clear that, she, these values of where she came from. And now she's got success and she's got money on top of all of that. what happens to people with. The really strong values and then suddenly come into a lot of money. Politics. Damn right, politics comes a knocking. All via social network. Yeah. And then rename it. So you're right. So Wall Street and White House obviously have a really close link. Secretary of State, Secretary of Treasury, and she had infiltrated both of these arenas using her, salon and her influence and her networking. These are quite historically male. areas. But Woodhall wanted to change that. So she was known to give fiery speeches. a lot of those covered women's suffragette. Notably in 1871, she did a speech in the U. S. House of Representatives. that speech was so well received that it got her accepted by suffragettes leaders, who then. We're like, oh actually this woman's something, there's something with her, it's not just the flash in the pan of the brokerage, it's not just this, the stuff she writes in the papers, she's actually got solid views here. It seems like, all these things that happened in her childhood, inadvertently sort of training her up for this moment, because I guess from her, like her parents and the way they were ostracized, that must have shaped her social views in some way in being the child of unmarried parents, and then having this sort of ability for rhetoric and conversation from her traveling sideshow skills. And then the money as well. And then the network from the salon. You need all of these really. There are lots of rich people who would be terrible politicians. And there are lots of people who can speak well who don't have the money to get into it. But somehow it's just all, this has all come together for her, isn't it? Yeah, politics leans towards people who can hold an audience, who are happy to perform like a stunt or two, and she, because she is a performer, remember, like you were saying, she knows how to keep people on their toes. And Because of these speeches, she was now doing that in a political setting. There was lots of crowds around her when she went to the ballot boxes because one of her arguments was, if you read carefully, if you actually looked at the 14th and 15th amendment, you'd find that it guarantees the protection of the right of all citizens. That was the wording, right? So she was like, well, I'm a citizen. Well, I should be able to vote. And then she called this raucous at the ballot boxes, claiming that the 14th Amendment actually And to be honest, her logic was sound. Like, yeah, she wasn't wrong. She caused a stunt off the back of that. So there was like paper articles about this rule because that she caused at the ballot boxes and people are being like, look, look, there's a woman. Oh my God. So that was her view on the right to vote. Yeah. I mean, fact doesn't count so much if you can't get any attention on it. So yeah, for sure. so you can see by this point, like she's making friends with suffragettes. She's got a little bit of fame behind her. She's got this money behind her. This all leads to, in 1971, Victoria announcing that she's going to run for president for the new United States, even though women didn't technically have the right to vote. to be fair, there wasn't anything written down that it was illegal for women to run for office. Like, they hadn't even considered that. They hadn't even thought it would be an option. Such, such an unthinkable idea. Yes, on another technicality. Yeah. Yeah. On another technicality. She's like, I got you. I got you guys. she became the official nominee of the newly formed equal rights party. that party was like a bit of a spin off of the suffragette movement. And They even, selected a black man as the running partner, so as vice president. his name is Frederick Douglass. He wasn't active in the campaign, but he is on the ballot papers, you can see them. This is an incredible sort of middle finger to society of the time, isn't it? Can you imagine? In absolutely everything. This is absolute outrage. It's every, but again, it's crazy, isn't it? Because having just been through a presidential election, those things were still areas of contention, weren't they? Oh yeah. Like having a woman run, having a black woman run, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah, don't think about it too much. So, the Equals Rights Party hope to use the nominations to reunite the suffragettes with the African American civil rights activists because there's this argument that suffragettes were for white women, you know what I mean? They were alienating, minorities. Victoria in 1871 publicly spoke out about, against the government of, because it was just men. So she She was making all these claims and what do people do when a woman rises to some sort of position of power and influence? Trying to shoot her down in every way possible and make out that she's a, I don't know, a dirty slut or something. 100 percent they tear her down. Enter So, um, she was attacked for her belief in free love, which, was epitomized by a famous political cartoonist, Thomas Nast, who depicted Victoria as Satan's wife, basically advocating free love. Did I put this picture in your notes? If not, I'll show you it. It's like a cartoon. Yeah, with demon wings. Yep. So there's her in, um, really quite scary. She's got like horns and wings and a cloak. With a little sign that says, free love. And in the background, there's actually a woman, you can see there, who would rather than be with Victoria in this free love movement, would actually Rather, carry her drunk husband on her back with two babies, and make her own way, rather than being associated, really, with Victoria and her. And this is the classic thing of just sidestepping the issue, isn't it? We're not going to, it doesn't matter what your arguments are or the validity of them, we're not going to address any of those. not going to address these causes or concerns that you have. We're just going to undermine you completely. 100 percent and she was attacked on all fronts for being a woman. She wasn't even 35 years old. So there was that problem. There was the free love problem. There was a, coming from your background problem, she was attacked all over the place, but she was a fighter, so, you know, that's not the end of the story, but in the background, her troubles were starting to mount, so her ex husband reappeared and took up residency with her, because she was doing well, and this again provided more material for the press to attack her on, basically the press had lots of ammo. religious groups also didn't like Victoria because of her free love, um, philosophy, preachers were known to call her unwieldly. Is that it? Unwildly. Unwieldly. Unwieldy? Yes, there we go. Unwieldy. I've never described anyone as unwieldy before. I would not feel comfortable using that word in conversation. I'm not gonna lie, I'd be like, nope. She's essentially unwieldy with a wheelbarrow. Well maybe that's what they wanted her to be, I don't know. Um, one of her most vocal critics was Reverend Harvey Ward Beecher. Now, Victoria, remember she ran a newspaper, she is not, unknown to go dig in for a story. She just happened to find out that Henry, Reverend Henry, was cheating on his wife with a married woman in the parish. So, not only is he slamming Victoria for free love. He's slamming another woman. He's slamming her for free love and having sex out of marriage. You can't possibly do that. But then, he's having sex out of marriage with a woman in his parish. That's why he was so angry about it. He just wanted to deflect the attention away. I would describe that as highly unwieldy. the hypocrisy was out of this world. so Victoria was like, well, you're clearly not, you're not coping with the confines of marriage very well, Henry, you've clearly, you've got, got a problem. she wrote an expose on Henry and then. So she covered that in her newspaper because she owns a newspaper and that actually led the reverend to go on trial for adultery So he actually got his comeuppance. I know I can't believe it. On the flip side, it also led actually to Victoria's demise. It just makes me wonder where this, I mean, she had the showmanship. She could get people's attention. She had the ability to speak. She had the money to back her. She doesn't. It reminds me a bit of, Jingxi. Jingxi who did have that political mouse to know who to put pressure on and how to use the information that she has, how to use these views to her own advantage and to be a winner. Victoria seems maybe a bit overly sort of scattershot and maybe too busy and too enthusiastic and not considerate enough and not strategic enough. I would agree. I think that's really important. But I do think when you're in a. a childhood where you're always moving, always on to the next thing, always just getting, you're not thinking 10 steps ahead, you're not thinking what am I going to have for dinner next week, you're just, you're thinking next meal. And I think that is a theme throughout her life, it's just lurching, just gotta fix that problem, gotta fix that problem, you know, rather than long term thinking. So yeah, I'd agree. It's a shame because she's obviously a woman of like extraordinary ability. and go getter vibes, like the action that she is taking is like, you know, it's unstoppable, isn't it? Yeah, it's extraordinary to do this. Yeah, absolutely. So, Victoria Tenney and her husband were all arrested on charges of obscenity because the story that she had published, was so detailed, it was classed in legal terms as offensive. it was illegal to send immoral content through the mail. Who knew? Who knew that was a law? You can't send this through the post. The courts eventually did acquit all of them on a technicality, but this was after being imprisoned for six months. Those six months, that's her presidential campaign, basically. So she was like out of action for the whole thing. she actually spent election day in her jail cell, which is not the place you want to be. So her move for presidency was officially over. She and her husband paid half a million dollars in bail and they eventually went bankrupt. They actually divorced. It's a lot of stress in 1876. This was the same year she stopped publicizing, Woodhull and Claffam's Weekly, so the paper. 1876, so she's 36, well 38 at this point. I know, it's a lot in a short amount of time, isn't it? It's crazy. The case had also negatively affected Victoria's reputation with the suffragette movement. So, like I said before, they were, they just about accepted her. But then it was like, Oh no, you've done this now. So they flipped back. I imagine she sounds like she was just always on the outside, always like fighting to get in, fighting for acceptance. Yeah, I think she was just too radical for the time, I think. She went in, like you said, all guns blazing, like it was all or nothing kind of thing. Victoria did continue to give lectures to the public and focus on women's rights within marriage. Victoria and Tennessee, it's really cute that she stuck with her sister. They eventually retired in England in 1877. Victoria managed to build a career as a lecturer. she got married again, which is crazy. So a guy called, John Biddulph Martin, They married in 1883. She continued, weirdly, to use the name Woodhull, which was her name from her first marriage of her rubbish husband. but she added Martin on the end, so it became Victoria Woodhull Martin. as she got older, her, her views grew less, polarizing. She was very active in the suffragette movement in Great Britain. She continued to write, so she must have enjoyed these things. So she continued to write for a newspaper that focused on equals rights. It was called the Humanitarian. And she had been known to, I was talking to Cara about this earlier, she had been known to focus on eugenics. which makes me feel a little bit awkward, but you know, that's not undo, undo all the actions she's taken. She also did lots of different publications as well, and her and her sister actually became known in social circles in Britain, for their work for philanthropy. So, she was always for society, I think, in whatever she was doing. It was always to try and move society on, which I really enjoyed. She died on the 9th of June, 1927. She was 88. Um, but I do think she's a She's such a crazy example of so many things. So, for example, you can have multiple careers. she went from fortune teller to stockbroker to journalist, to a lecturer, quite a lot of careers in a short amount of time. you don't have to have a formal. education to be able to thrive, and I think that's even more true in today's society. And she stuck to her values pretty much consistently all the way through. And I think, yeah, good for you, girl. She got a lot of heat for them. She did. She got a lot of flack for that, but sort of stuck to it throughout. I mean, the story is completely absurd. The whole thing, the whole thing is insane. It's just turbulence throughout, isn't it? Yeah, turbulence throughout, love that, yeah. Blinkin heck. She has so much energy for it all. It's the snake oil. That's what it is, yeah. Turns all really a story of the power of snake oil? All that time, and it did work. It did work. Yeah, so that is the story of Victoria Woodhall and her many, many, many lives. yeah. She's quite cool, right? Yeah, she feels like a right woman, wrong time sort of thing. I'd love to know how that energy would work out today. Well, it's interesting listening to it because it is resonant. Of women like Kamala Harris who have put themselves out there and tried to move the ball down the pitch only to have those ad hominem attacks and you must come to a point where you either have to give up what you believe in. It's, it's incredibly complex even now and how much of her story is still relevant today is scary, isn't it? Yeah, it's It's, it's dismaying, and it doesn't you don't necessarily see the impact of that sort of linearly, In exactly the areas that she is, but just the fact that she's gone out with this courage and taken this flack maybe gives other people the confidence to do things in totally different or more personal aspects of their life. And the money. I mean, that practical thing of setting up a stock brokerage for women. And financially empowering widows to make their own choices. That's absolutely incredible. Really practical. So, yeah. Well, thank you for listening, guys. It's been an audience, Cara. Thanks. It's been great. This is like a VIP version of listening to the podcast. I'm very excited. We still expect your download on that kind of live. Oh, absolutely. No problem. Well, thanks for joining us, everyone. Thanks for joining us, Cara. She changed history. Remember to like, rate, subscribe, check out our socials. We are doing a shout out if you've got any, suggested subjects for us. Or if you've just got a really cool story to tell about any woman at any time. you know, they don't have to have changed history, quote unquote, just someone who's pretty kick ass. Please share, and then we'll do a listening episode at some point. That'll be really cool. I learned over Christmas a really badass fact about my grandmother, and it's that showmanship thing. She was a lovely, very humble woman. And my mom was saying that when my brother was about 16, he got an electronic keyboard for Christmas And, he was fooling around with it. And grandma said something like, Oh, maybe I could try. And my mom said to her, I didn't know that you could play. And she said, Oh yeah, I can play a bit. And mom said, well, what will you play? And my grandmother said, what do you want to hear? And absolutely sat there and flawlessly two hand proper played anything they cared to name. That's incredible. My mom's like in her 50s at this point. My grandmother never ever let on that she had that ability. And I thought you've been like, that's been in your life the whole time. An absolute smasher. I loved it. Not a show woman like not a showy person, but she had that going on I'm like, that is amazing playing by ear is such a skill. Anyway, can you imagine? Yeah Absolutely incredible. Maybe not quite what you're looking for, but it's a grandma Well, thanks everyone and we'll catch you next time