18. Zenobia: The Warrior Queen who built an EMPIRE

The Remarkable Reign of Queen Zenobia: Defying Rome and Commanding an Empire

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Other episodes mentioned today: Ching Shih and Empress Matilda

In this episode of 'She Changed History,' we dive into the extraordinary story of Queen Zenobia of Palmyra, who lived nearly 2000 years ago. Zenobia challenged the might of the Roman Empire, expanding her territory. Known for her intelligence, strategic prowess, and diplomatic skills, she led her army with unmatched determination and gained significant power despite the constraints of her time. However, her ambition eventually caught the attention of the Roman Emperor Aurelian, leading to a series of bloody battles. The episode highlights the historical significance of women in leadership roles and aims to correct the often beauty-focused narrative surrounding women in ancient history.

Sources today are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odaenathus
https://www.worldhistory.org/Crisis_of_the_Third_Century/
https://www.britannica.com/place/Syria/Hellenistic-and-Roman-periods
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzBbpCG7gvM Zenobia the Warrior Queen of the Palmyrene Empire
https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1692/roman-armor--weapons/
https://www.worldhistory.org/Crisis_of_the_Third_Century/
https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/zenobia-queen-of-palmyra/
https://www.worldhistory.org/zenobia/
https://althistory.fandom.com/wiki/Zenobia_(Vastator_Orbis)

00:00 Introduction and Greetings
00:15 Celebrating Women in STEM
01:12 Introducing Queen Zenobia
03:14 Zenobia's Early Life and Heritage
04:49 Marriage and Rise to Power
10:34 Zenobia's Leadership and Influence
14:41 The Crisis of the Third Century
16:59 Zenobia's Expansion and Military Campaigns
17:43 March to Roman Egypt
18:52 Zenobia's Tactical Maneuvers
20:38 Diplomacy and Expansion
25:25 Aurelian's Response
28:36 The Final Battles
33:10 Zenobia's Capture and Legacy
34:57 Reflection on Women in History
37:59 Closing Remarks

Transcript

audio1172871344: 0:08

yeah. I've forgotten about the floor background. That's exciting. Keep you pepped up. Yeah. Also, um, Happy International Day of Women and Girls in Science. Oh, I didn't know that. What a great day. Yeah. February the 11th. It started in 2015 by the UN to promote women and girls in STEM. Oh man, we could have saved last week's, um, story. Oh no, we did release it today. So we've released a STEM story on a STEM day. Perfect. Hey, oh my god, I mean, look at that. I made a real name. We're better than we think. Yeah, for sure. You don't even Hi, Vicky. Hi, Simon. How are you doing? I'm good. How are you? Yeah, very well. Thanks. Yeah. Welcome. Welcome to She Changed History. Hello. And it's Vicky's turn today. It is. You can sit back and relax. talk at you for a bit. What have you got for us today? We're going right back. So we're going 2, 000 years ago. Wow, this is even pre Victorian. How dare we? How dare we? I know I'm going to push you out of that comfort zone, you're going to have to stretch a little bit, but hopefully it'll be a good one. Um, got a little intro. She commanded legions, dared to challenge the Roman Empire, and defied expectations at every turn. Her name was Zenobia, and her story is one of ambition and the relentless pursuit of power. From the sands of Palmyra to the glittering courts of Rome, we unravel the life and legend of this extraordinary woman. Join us as we explore the rise and fall of Queen Zenobia, a warrior whose legacy echoes through the ages. Wicked. So it's power, it's royalty, it's transcension, it's all of those words. And you've even got a lovely photo of her as well. That's great. That is a painting and, um, sorry, I didn't mean to sound so corrective. They didn't have photography 2, 000 years ago, Simon. Sorry to correct you. I know. That was devastating. That sounded really bitchy, I'm sorry. Uh, Simon, they didn't have photography 2, 000 years ago. Don't be silly please. You're on a history podcast. but that is her surveying her empire. So this is a painting of her allegedly at her peak. Like the Lion King where it's like everything, the light will touch. It's very much like that for sure. Nice. so lots of sources today, A Britannica article, a really good YouTube video, called Zenobia, the Warrior Queen of the Palm Marineau Marine Empire. lots of world history.org articles. They seem to have got loads on this kind of area of history. So that was really helpful and, there was an alternative history. Dot com article as well. Oh, cool. Sure. Good. Yeah. we're gonna have to learn a lot. I don't, I didn't know much about this area. Do you know much Not really. No. Okay. So we're in Syria. So Palm Myra is a city in modern day Syria. z Noia was born two forty eighty in Palmyra. Palmyra is like a Roman province, is part of the empire. That therefore makes Zenobia a citizen of Rome. There is a lovely description in one of the articles that says she had a flashing cold black eyes, pearly white teeth, dark Middle Eastern skin and wavy brunette hair reflecting her part Greek and part Arab lineage. She was born into an Arab tribe which meant that she was infused with, Arabic. tribal politics. There's also just a casual little claim that because of her Greek heritage, that could be tracked all the way back to Cleopatra herself. Wow. Yeah. With all of this, because it is 2000 years ago, just a pinch of salt on all those things. I don't know if you're watching apple cider vinegar on Netflix at the minute, but it's basically about this girl who made up so much stuff and, like really dark stuff. She made up that she had cancer, and now everything I read in the news, I'm like, is this true? Is this true? So, she claims to be. related to Cleopatra. But we haven't got an official, who do you think you are, verification of that? I don't think so. I haven't, I haven't gone through the archives. Nice to believe though. I think it's pretty cool, isn't it? If you're going to have a heritage, make sure it's Cleopatra. a really key day in Zenobia's life is, 258 AD when she marries Ordinathus. Ordinathus, has a lot of, power in the province. they marry and they have at least one son called Valbaethus, and Ordinathus has a son from his previous marriage as well. So it's like a blended family situation. she's marrying into power. That's it. So he rules this region. And parts that extend over that. So it's like a bit of the Roman Empire. So she's ruling. Do we know, like, what sort of role she would have? I don't know, was she merely a trophy wife or was she actually getting involved in the action? She got involved heavy, really heavy. Oh wow, okay. And that is the piece of the story that kind of links to how she rose. to power basically. so it was very much a team effort to understand like the power they had. You kind of need to understand a little bit about Palmyra itself. So, like I said, it's in modern day Syria. So you're talking like the Turkey region of Iraq, Lebanon around there. It's an oasis, that area, which means that it's got loads of fertile soil, which is amazing. And that's what their economy relies on. It kind of relies on this today. So you're producing off the land. So that's wine, Um, Olives, vegetables, fruits, nuts, wool, because your animals can live on the land. And because of where it was positioned, it was a really important trading hub on what they call the Silk Road. Have you heard of the Silk Road? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that is 4, 000 miles long and it goes through Europe and, to Asia and it was a trade route from about the second century BC to the mid 15th century AD, so a really long time. And the reason it was called the Silk Road is because the trade tended to be in silk and textiles, which were produced in China, traveled along the way. Palmyra was on this route, and that's where, you could pay your taxes. So that's why it was so rich. They charged taxes to use the road, and they also let the travelers rest there. Yeah, like a really key hub along the way. Yep, trading post and because of that it influenced different types of cultures. The architecture you can see has been influenced by this time, like you can see Roman architecture that is still there today, which is really interesting. So. You're in power, you're married to someone in power in this hubbub on the Silk Road. Yeah, she's giving me slight vibes of Ching Shih there. I know! Marrying the right person, but also getting involved. Very much in role. So, the reason she got involved is because, Ordinathus is a bit of a, um, he's a bit of a character in himself. He's Oh God! He's not like this quiet, stoic kind of just sits back and lets, you know, he's quite hands on in his rule. So the character is what they call the kid at school who sets fire to the library. That's what we're talking about today. So there was a key event really early on their marriage, so 227 AD. the Sassanid Persians, which was led by a guy called Shapur I, who was known as the King of Kings of Iran. He blocked the Silk Road, preventing Romans from accessing their silk. Um, it said in some articles, their beloved silk, but I think it was probably more stop them collecting their taxes. That's what really stuck. The Roman emperor at the time was called Valerian. He tried to fight Shapur um, tried to fight this army off and he failed. So Ordonathus took it upon themselves to fight him. He was like, well, I'm not, you know, you can fail, but I'm actually going to get my guys and rally the troops. now, crucially is the word that is stated here, crucially, this was after he tried to make an alliance with Shapur. So he was, he tried to get Chopin on side, and then when that didn't work, he was like, well, stuff you anyway, I'm going to tell you off to the Roman emperor and we're going to fight this, you know, tell you off to the Roman emperor. Yeah. He's like, I'm going to tell on you if you don't want to make an alliance with, yeah, if you don't want to make an alliance with me, I'm telling. So that's basically what happened. So he tried to make an alliance, Then he fought back. Um, and this did work. So he successfully pushed Shapur's, forces over the Euphrates Tis river, which runs through Syria today. If you Google that river, it is fricking stunning. It is absolutely gorgeous. Such a special part of the world. And then what he did then, or Deneithis, which just shows these kind of character aspects, Having tried to go around the Emperor's back, then said to the Emperor, Oh, you know what? I did you a favor there. I managed to run him out for you. I think, I think I did really well there. You know, just, owe me, owe me in the future. Don't worry about it. Just owe me. He's sort of already acting not necessarily against the Roman Empire, but maybe not totally adhering to the agreed power structure there. Yes! Like the Roman Emperor couldn't, get rid of the King of Kings. You know, you've got to step up, haven't you? Yeah, hold that thought, because it's so important in the future. for his service of, shoving off Shapur, Ordonathus was made the governor of the entire eastern part of the Roman Empire. So, that's his, thank you. over time he gained enough power, to rule almost independently as Rome and that was with Zenobia as queen. She was very active in this growth of this empire and this strategy. because she had loads of skills, she was fluent in Greek, Latin, Amharic, Egyptian. Because of all that and also her claim to heritage of Cleopatra the seventh, she had like this interconnectedness kind of network going on. She enjoyed hunting. So she was one of the lads, basically. She enjoyed what they called the hunt, and they called that the sport of kings back then. And that was a really big thing in Persian. Arab lands, it turns out. It turned out that she'd prefer, rather than being in a carriage, she prefer to be on horseback with the troops basically. So she would travel with, whether it be a horse or a camel. So like culturally she's. one of the people. She can blend into all of these, uh, different, different areas, different tribes that she rules over, and she's getting involved with them in a sort of a grittier way. It creates respect, right? Yeah, definitely. It creates a reputation. So she got this kind of fame. and she walked by foot at the head of the troops as well. So she wasn't like at the back being paraded through. She was at the helm. She could also out drink any of her soldiers. That's where it comes from. Okay. That's the power. Yeah. She was considered better at them than hunting and because Ordonathus is quite a character, she also got a reputation for commanding self control. She was very poised, very collected. All the things you want in a leader. Yeah. I think. So, she was very active because she had skills to grow this empire. Then her husband dies, as with every story I tell. So, um, I don't know why, they just come to me and they, oh well then the husband dies. You gravitate towards them, yeah. In 267 ad, um, both Ordona and his son were assassinated by his nephew, so this is classic Roman Empire stuff where they just power struggle, just killing everyone. That's the only answer. The nephew was the only relative who laid claim to the pal Miron throne. Mm-hmm But what the nephew didn't count on was Signia. Mm-hmm rallied her husband's forces having gained their respect and quickly squashed this idea of a rebellion. Like the nephew had a go at rebellion and she was like, nah mate, not happening. So all of her behavior up until now has come back to, to serve her well. Yep. She's like, I can do this. I want to do this. Yeah. I'm not letting you do it, especially after you've just killed. Yeah, like what an idiot is the nephew. Surely he saw how badass she was. I know, but she's a woman. Oh yes, sorry. I can take you, poor lady. so this was the son from the first marriage who was assassinated. So Zenobia still has her ten year old son, Valberthus. And she, the idea is that You know, like with Matilda, we spoke about, she would look after for her child. They call that the role of regent. So she took on this, she maintained all her late husband's policies. and she did the job. She did all the things you would want a. leader to do. she was also very clever because she positioned herself with intellectuals and philosophers and people with high standing to advise her. So rather than just like the brutest or the loudest or the most extroverted soldiers, she would surround her people who she perceived to have expertise. Hallmark of the best leaders. I think so, just you, just this idea that you don't know everything. Yeah. Shock horror. Being okay with that and accepting that. Yeah. And pulling on people. Yeah. Yeah. I write here that she's more like deputizing than caretaking because she is doing it. She's doing everything. she pushed and she wanted progress and by progress, I mean power. She wanted more. which I think again, was taught to her by her husband. That's exactly what he wanted. On top of all that, at this time, it's a really key time in the Roman Empire. She got damn lucky in terms of timing. So, this is the part of the Roman Empire which is called the Crisis of the Third Century. Have you heard that, no. Do you want to learn about that? No, you're right. I'm going to tell you about it anyway. Yeah, okay. So, this is also known as the imperial crisis, which is when the Roman empire basically split into three different entities. It was just a power struggle of the masses. So power was fractured. And it was a time where politics became more influenced by the military rather than, lineage. People wouldn't necessarily adhere to the policies and. Emperors succeeded one another really quickly. So within 50 years, they had 26 emperors. Wow. Yeah, in just a really short 50 year period. Just like the Tory party. Yeah, but like worse. We thought that was bad. what are we on? Four in four years or something? Four in five years. Like, it's Wow, 26 in 50. It's a lot. It's so much. And because of that, Obviously everything was unstable is the politics phrase, isn't it? There was loads of inflation, like today, lots of economic depression, like today. This caused devaluation of the currency, like today. Um, this was on the back of a plague, like today. So everything goes in cycles. I know, and I was like, oh no, so dear. Because of this, it demanded so much attention in the epicenter of the empire, right? So all the armies went there because of all this invasion. So someone would be on the throne. You need to protect that person. Then they'd fall down, then you need, and it was just, everyone was focusing on this power struggle, which also meant that the agricultural industry suffered because you didn't have people working on the land because they were all trying to, keep the peace. I see. And I guess that left a bit of a vacuum then for the more distant parts of the empire to. capitalise on something, Yes, and she was under the radar. and began to make changes. She had inherited her husband's land, and she thought, okay, I want to expand my reach throughout the Med, and she did this in a few ways. A lot of them were Bloody, as you would expect. Mm-hmm The, probably the biggest one was Egypt. Okay. So in 269, she made a guy called SDAs, her general, and she sent him and his army, which was the size of 70,000 troops, 70,000. That is the size of Peckham. I have found out that is. Huge amount of people. The great pack a mami of 2069. So they all marched along, south, along the coastline, ironically to the land of her ancestor, Cleopatra, and into Roman Egypt to claim Egypt as their own. Though they were, initially successful. They were then driven out by Roman forces, so it wasn't necessarily an easy battle, quite a bloody battle. Just to give you an idea of what these battles were like back then, we're talking bronze helmets, we're talking breastplates, very gladiatory. If you were rich, you could then afford like that chain mail kind of thing that you had going on. you would carry a semi, cylinder shield. It's like a, quite a rounded one, and something called a pilum, which is a four foot shaft with a two foot shank and a tapered point. Wow. You could throw these about a hundred feet, so quite deadly, like it was like a One I couldn't, but someone could. Yeah. Yeah. This pylum it's such a big part of, weaponry back then and it then lasted for about five centuries. So it was really, everyone had one. then Zunobia counterattacks again. She then decimates the Roman army and Egypt fell under her control. Having claimed Egypt, Zunobia was in a position of strength. But she had to be really careful not to conflict too much with Rome because, they are technically in charge. What she did do is she claimed that a little bit like her husband had done in the past what she was saying to the Emperor. So, there was a Syrian Egyptian called, Timogenes, who started a revolt against Roman rule while the Roman governor was away on campaign. Therefore, Zunobia marched on Egypt, could have been explained as saying, I'm protecting you of this Timogenes threat, I'm doing it for the good of the empire. But there's another story that she sent Timogenes to start causing havoc. so she planted him. One of the first false flag operations. Yeah, that's it. Definitely. And to show that she wasn't making a fuss, she also allowed the grain ships to sell as usual from Egypt to Rome. So she was like, look, business as usual, guys. Don't worry. I'm not here to cause a fuss. was just trying to calm the tension in Egypt. And I just wanted to, make sure that Egypt fell in line to you, Emperor, like I just wanted to make sure that they were well behaved. So at this point, you've got an emperor called, aurelian, and that's what she said to him, basically. Did he fall for that? He did for the time being. There's only so many times I think you can use that line. Yeah. No, no, I'm just, I'm just coming to Rome to make sure everyone's being nice to you. Absolutely. I know she's sneaky. I love it. Yeah. So she keeps growing her empire basically. But she uses different tactics. So for example, with Levant, which is, a region that today is made up of Jordan, Syria, Israel, Lebanon, she actually did diplomatic negotiations with them rather than full on war trade. Okay, so it's not exclusively a military sort of walking up to them and stealing it. so what she did with Levin is basically say, I will protect you. Look, it's a really unstable time. There's lots of bloodshed. I will protect you with my massive army of 70, 000 people. My Peckham army, massive. and then they fell under her rule. I don't know what would happen if Levin said, actually. Queen Zenobia. Queen, I'm fine. Thank you. I'm not sure that would have flown. I'd imagine it's a sort of, it's an offer you can't refuse it's giving me Godfather vibes. Just another example of how she gained, more land, was she was able to capture the Asia Minor, East Turkey. Okay. She basically. stormed in. the Empire were too busy faffing about doing their own thing, trying to work out who's in charge. She was able to capture, the Asia Minor and put down a number of loyalist Roman legions. So no one was stopping her really from the Roman side because she was very clever of she must been carrying so much sort of respect and admiration. We know that this was on that particular. emperor's radar, but he just couldn't do anything about it. Like time wasn't on his side. He was mishandling different revolts, he didn't have the resource to do it. Where is she now? She's what, 12 years in now to being queen, some with her husband, some without. That's it. She's also really clever because she tows so close to the line. So even when she took over Asia Minor, she put down these loyalists in there to represent the Roman Empire. Oh, I see. And so she They couldn't really tell her off. Yeah. They were like, just that kid in school who like goes so close to doing something wrong, but then technically, no miss it doesn't quite say that. You know what I mean? So, so technically she had done nothing wrong to open up that conflict. Mm-hmm Then. And to, Orian who is, as Emperor, when he becomes in charge, has Zenobia right on his radar. He found her very audacious. Zenobia, is Yeah, so she's coining, coins. Like I said, she's doing the ruling really hands on. And Oh, she did this really awkward thing. And like I said, it's not wrong, it's just naughty, is that she had these coins minted with her son's one side, because remember, she's caretaker. So her son's face on one side and Aurelian's. face on the other side, but Aurelian was on the back of the coin, not the front of the coin, which was very disrespectful. Yeah, I'd imagine that, I mean, I haven't met many Roman emperors in my life, but I think they're probably quite precious about their, status and their power. And that feels like a real, undermining, an irksome move. But again, not enough to do, not enough to cause outright war. Sorry, did I put you on the back? Oh, I didn't realise coins had a back. Oh, sorry about that. It's very much like that. She also adopted, imperial titles, for herself and her son. So her son was called Augustus and she was the Augusta, which was only then used for the royal family. of Rome. So again, that's like me saying, Oh, I'm princess of Wales. And then, Catherine being totally fine with that. She would not be. Yeah. Oh, I know. I would be beheaded immediately. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So this is really changing the, the dynamic, but Palmyra is no longer like a trusted. outpost of the Roman Empire. Yeah, she's balancing this tie, tie rope so much because she's also conducting, trade agreements, which are in benefit to the Roman Empire. Like they do benefit from it, but she doesn't consult them. She's just like, no, I just want this trade agreement in place. I want to negotiate this territory. She's just so independent. She just does it and she's, and it's working because she's growing. And yeah, so she. She's very selective with who she tells what to, by 271 A. D. she ruled over an empire which stretched from modern day Iraq through to Turkey and down to Egypt. So a huge amount, much bigger than it was with, her husband. When Aurelian became emperor, he, like I said, took notice of what she was doing. And just said, this is getting out of hand, really, this has gone on for too long. Aurelian himself was a military man, so he had risen through the ranks. he was very much soldier focused, which meant he was primal, he was not scared of a fight, when he assumed rule, he had to also defeat a load of different tribes to get rules. So he had to defeat the Vandals, the Alemanni, and the Goths. but by 272, so that took time, by 272 he's ready. He's ready to take on, Zenobia. He's going against her as a monster. Yeah. So she's had two years of clean running, basically. Two years, of course, in havoc, running under the radar, building what she wants to build. and he launched what is, like a military campaign He didn't even really tell her what he was planning to do. So there's, apparently there's no letter of explanation. but equally none of Zenobia to him either. They had no communication. It was just out of the blue completely. So he marched on the Palmyrene Empire with his entire army. Wow. Later, however, letters were found, between the two of them where Aurelian is seen as reasonable and Zenobia is seen as arrogant and hoity, which is a word that is coming across a lot. In our ladies But world history.org notes that these are properly fabrications. So he probably made these up to say I was very reasonable. of course. Yeah. I really tried with this woman, She just wouldn't let me in. She was hysterical. Yes, basically. so offer really goes to find her. He destroys every city that is loyal to Soia, including le, the Levin area. Wow. he fought off any attacks and just marched on. So the quick side story is Aurelian comes to Tyana, which is a city in modern day East Turkey. This was the home of the famous philosopher Apollonius of Tyana, who, Aurelian really admired. Apparently, this philosopher came to him in a dream and counseled him to be merciful if he wished to obtain victory. the philosopher is like, you should spare the cities. And so that's what, Well, that's what happened. So Iranian did do that. This dream came true so that the cities fell before he even got to them. So they would surrender before he even arrived at the gates. Okay. the reason they fell is because he told everyone about this dream. Mm hmm. Like sent messages on was like, I've had a dream that if you fall down, I won't kill you and obviously then I don't want to die. So they'll just like surrender. Does that make sense? Yeah, that's a cunning little tactic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Again, like everything in this story, it's deduced from the evidence that we have. But I guess it, it does rely on him having already destroyed and killed loads of people. So there's, some authenticity behind the threat. we love a bit of cause and effect. Yeah, definitely. so he's on route as an OBA. Pushed and pushed and pushed, um, he's not going down without a fight, and, Zenobia obviously gets wind of this because, messages come, all her cities have fallen, and so she rallies her armies, and then what happens is the Battle of Ime. Uh, I M M A E in 272. this is bloody. This is huge. There are two massive armies. This is for the eastern part of the Roman Empire. The stakes are high. You've got a woman in charge. It couldn't be any more tense as a battle. In this battle, Zenobia falls. The Palmyrenes were defeated. The way the Aurelian won. was by faking retreat, and so like they fell back, and then when the Palmyra forces, when they begin to tire, and they were like, oh, we've seen them off, they're retreating, when they started to head back, Oranian then did a pincer formation, and then came round the backside. So they split and then came back around. quite naughty tactics, really, I think. I mean, naughty tactics. Very naughty tactics. I'm just trying to imagine the scale of this and the tens of thousands of soldiers in these formations. And you said it was pre photography, it's pre radio, it's pre anything, you know. I think it's just lots of yelling and lots of brass on brass and metal and blood and yeah, yeah, like first aid isn't there. You know, I think it must have been savage. Yes. Great words. Savage. A hundred percent. Seneba herself and her general Zabdas, they flay to, Emesa, which is Now called Homs in Syria. That's Monday Homs. And there she's got more men and she's also got more Armory money, resources in general Aurelian isn't having it. So the armies meet again outside Of, Emesa, so they go again. So it's like another battle. All this bloodshed. Yeah, absolutely. But it's because she's relentless, She could have fallen'cause she, I guess she's thinking I've worked so hard for this, and this is what my husband wanted, and this is what, and I'm good at it as well, that's another thing, she's just, it's a power struggle, again, the Romans win, Aurelian sides win. using precisely the same tactic. So they hadn't learned from the previous time. So they pretend to retreat. And then they turn around and they're like, ha, got you. And then they go again. that meant that Aurelian then took the city of, Emesa, and also, raided the rest of their resources as well, so it raided the treasury and everything, so he's gaining from all sides, people, power, money, the whole shebang. this is a real show of power, isn't it? Oh yeah, and it's a show of putting someone in their box again, lying, absolutely. Yeah, Zenobia flees again. Wow, she gets away. She's sneaky sneaky. This time she goes to Palmyra itself. So her namesake, the place, the Holy Grail, if you like, which is very poetic as a final standoff battle, isn't it? Yeah. she was in the city walls and made all the preparations she could. She found reinforcements, again, pulling on all that power and all that influence that she's built, all that camaraderie with the troops and, finding aid, And it sounds like she knew what was coming and did get like a little bit sentimental. she made declaration according to historian Edward Gibbon that the last minute of her reign should be the same as her life So like the same attitude, forte, resilience, politicians do get a bit sentimental, don't they? Oh definitely, yeah. Yeah. and would be a great movie. Can you imagine this scene in the movie where she's like giving this ready empowering speech to her troops knowing that the end's probably up, put that here, gladiator movie. That's what I want to happen. Even early on, you said that she was admired for always keeping her composure. It sounds like she's keeping that right to the end. Very stoic, right? Stoic, yeah, faltering under the pressure. Yeah, for sure. in the very dramatic movie Hollywood style, Aurelian comes over the hills and besieges Palmyra. Zenobia runs off with her son on camelback, hoping to reach Persia. But she then is captured at the river and apparently was brought back to Aurelian, tied in chains. When she gets to Aurelian, he then sends her to Rome. There's a few different accounts of what happens after this quite dramatic capture. One is that she didn't even make it to Rome. So one story is that. Both her and her son drowned on the way to Rome. but the most probable story would be that when she was put on trial in Rome and acquitted, because that tends to be what happens situations. She would then spend the rest of her life married to an upper class Roman because, and you're probably like, oh, does this normally happen? Aurelian was probably embarrassed that a woman had caused him so much trouble because there was three battles there, I've just taken you through, and vast amount of traveling. These are massive distances here. Yeah, she was giving him the proper runaround, So he probably wanted to downplay her significance, rather than make a bit of a show of her. You know, Amberlynn was very much made a show of, wasn't she? Her death was very, Like pantomime y, while this is like, just put her under the carpet, yeah, really downplay what a problem it actually was. And it's like, oh, we've just gone together. How tired I am. Yeah. There is a famous tale of her being paraded through the streets of Rome, in golden chains, which has been depicted in different paintings and sculptures. but again, it's likely a, a fantasy kind of fabrication, like, look at this silly woman, kind of thing. But regardless of whatever her fate was, Queen, Zenobia, is probably one of the most famous women of that time. And I think despite her being, defeated, it shows what a warrior she was, how strategic she was. One of the terms in the articles I read was a shrewd ruler, which I really agreed with. she was more than What people thought women were at that time. Oh, way beyond. Yeah. I've just put a little point at the end here. So a lot of this story, because it is nearly 2, 000 years old, very much depends on what sources you're looking at and what websites you're looking at. I very much relied on worldhistory. org today to try and get a consistent narrative. But the point of this story isn't really that. The point of the story is that women have always been there. When you think of the Roman Empire, they were there, they were doing what the men were doing. They were ruling, they were fighting, seizing, they did diplomacy. They have been there doing it all. We are just taught to remember women for their beauty. Which is like Cleopatra right at the top of the story and that's not what we remember the men for. So if you think about Roman men, I imagine you're thinking Julius Caesar, you're thinking of men of their power and you're thinking of women of their beauty. Whilst Queen Zenobia is beauty, absolutely, but power and more. So that's why I wanted to cover her. She's, um, she's a firecracker. Yeah. Yeah, just like strength and ambition and the way that she manages to Rally all these people behind her. Yeah, which must have had great political skill and the strength of the whole package and the stoicism and You need all those things to rule and gain that quickly. So the Palmyra Empire itself under her rule was like three years like it wasn't long. Yeah, but so much happened in that three years like for context King Charles has been on the throne like two and a half years Like it's that blip, you know to me like the Queen died yesterday, you know, I mean like it's such a short blip in history What she achieved in that short amount of time with the technologies back then, with, the resources back then, with the turmoil back then, she saw her opportunity and she went for it. And more of that, be great. I enjoyed that enormously. Thank you. It was nice to get out of Victorian England. Yeah. Yeah. Very deserty. Lots of sands. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. It was a lot of fun. And she's not the only woman of the Roman Empire either. That's the thing. There's loads of warrior women who we could cover And because of one thing or another just got completely written out of history But she's one of many I think that's important to know as well okay, well, thanks for listening. If you enjoyed that, please like, comment, subscribe, uh, tell your friends about us. We'd like that. We would like that. very much. Okay, catch you next time. see you later. Yes, bye.