26. Queen Amanirenas: The Forgotten Battle of Rome vs Kush

Queen Amanirenas: The Fierce Leader Who Resisted Rome

In this episode of 'She Changed History,' hosts Vicky and Simon delve into the story of Queen Amanirenas, an iconic ruler from the Kingdom of Kush in ancient Africa. They explore her remarkable resistance against the Roman Empire under Augustus, detailing her leadership, strategic prowess, and the societal and historical context of her reign. The episode highlights archaeological findings and ancient writings that reveal how Amanirenas, despite losing an eye in battle, led her people to a peace treaty that preserved Kush’s independence and laid the groundwork for centuries of prosperity.

Other episodes referenced: Zenobia

00:00 Intro and Banter
01:20 Setting the Scene: Queen Amans and the Roman Empire
03:25 Historical Context: The Kingdom of Kush
05:38 The Rise of Queen Amans
10:28 Conflict with the Roman Empire
13:49 The Kushite-Roman Wars
17:38 Roman Invasion of Kush
17:59 Queen Amanirenas' Resistance
18:42 Strategic Advantages of Kush
20:30 Negotiations and Peace Treaty
21:36 Legacy of Queen Amanirenas
23:07 Archaeological Discoveries
27:40 Comparisons to Modern Leadership
32:30 Conclusion and Reflections

Transcript

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One of the podcasts he mentioned, Jackson on history. Yeah. Uh, he's sponsoring Gloucester History Festival. Yeah, he's huge. He's a really big guy. Yeah. Amazing. I know he's super and I'd never considered us. I mean, I know it's called she changed history. And you talk about history. Yeah, but I've never considered that. I don't really consider it to be history. We're just talking about the past, which sounds ridiculous. I know. But it's like, It's interesting angle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Did you got this show on the road? I'm ready. Hi Vicki. Hi Simon. How are you doing? I am very well. How are you? Sounds good. Yeah, very well, thanks. Yeah, it's sunny. I've made a cake, fish, pash bush. I mean, what more do you want from your life? Yeah, that's the week completed. Congratulations. Sounds great. Lovely. Well, I've got a story for you today. Yes. And I, I love this one. All right. Badass. She is badass. I love it. Yeah. I just want you to soak it up. Yeah. Okay. Alright, let's go. Um. There will be a bit of an explainer about the geography and society and politics of the time and empires. We're going way back in time. I have a little intro for you. the Sands of time often bury the stories of remarkable figures leaving only faint whispers in the historical record Among these forgotten narratives is that of Queen Amans, a formidable ruler from Ancient Africa who in the late first century, BCE, stood against the might of the burgeoning Roman Empire. This was a period dominated by the rise of Augustus, the first Roman emperor, yet far to the south in the kingdom of Kush. Along Denal Valley, a queen emerged who would challenge Rome's expansionist ambitions. While the names of Roman emperors in Egyptian Pharaohs frequently echoed through history, the tale of our Manus and her kingdom located in what is now northern Sudan and Southern Egypt remains largely untold to many. today we aim to unveil the life leadership achievements and enduring legacy of this extraordinary queen, placing her within rich, historical, political, and geographical context of her time. I'm excited. Yes. Let's go. Correct reaction? Yes. So we're gonna be talking about, um, some dates, around year zero. Okay. I'm gonna be referring to them to as b, c, E. So before the common era and ce common era. Mm-hmm. Rather than BC and ad. and there's, yeah, a few little things to explain along the way. And apologies in advance for my pronunciation on some of these place names, but I will try my darnest. Lots of sources. main ones are. Oh, let me scroll down. world History, SARL Tours. It's an interesting website. Britannica, a couple of, sort of library resources, history skills, heritage Daily, and an article on Black History Month. Great. We'll back them in the show notes. Get them in the notes. Yeah. Great. Okay, so we are. Way back in time. A thousand, I say, um, about 1,070 BCE. Okay. My gosh. And we are talking about the, uh, the Kingdom of Kush, uh, KUSH, often referred to as Nubia, uh, situated and flourishing along the Nile River, which is at the time, as is now really the lifeline and sort of arid landscape of Northeastern Africa. this. Kingdom's history, um, spans over a millennium by the time that we'll get to it, it's an ancient civilization. Uh, had a long and complex relationship with its northern neighbor Egypt. Okay. Um, and those sort of marked by periods of those trade, cultural exchange, sometimes warfare. And at one point there was even cushite rule over Egypt as the 25th dynasty. So he's the emperor, he's the top dog. Uh, at the moment I haven't got to any rulers, just Okay. It's the, the kingdom, the area itself. Itself. Oh, the itself, the is itself called Kush. The kingdom is called Kush. I think Kush, to me Kush is a name. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. A city being called Elizabeth or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. and yeah, it got independence from Egypt around a thousand, 1,070 BCE, Eventually declined around the fourth century ce and over this time it had several capital, capital cities, which just reflected its these shifts in political power and strategic focus. so initially its Capital City was a place called Kma, K-E-R-M-A, and then later during the Heitz power in Napita, uh, became the capital around seven 50. BCE, which is. Located in Northern Kush, along the Nile Significant religious center. And it's got these Grand Temples, grand Temple Complex dedicated to the Godda moon, um, at the sacred mountain of Jebel Baral. And it's a bur burial site. It's, you can really picture it, can't you? Yeah. Make sure, local village hall, just, you know, power in comparison. Yeah. Don't go knock in the social club, Mike. That's true. Sorry. Sorry. War Hill. Um, by the time our soon to be subject of this, uh, queen scended to power, she came to power around 40 BCE. Okay. And the capital had moved further south to Mero, M-E-R-O-E. it moved there around 590 BCE, and it was a really good strategic. Location, offered great strategic advantages. So it gave them a buffer from Northern Invaders. Yeah, that makes sense. And we'll come on more to the sort of strategic advantages of the land shortly, but also this area, it was really rich in iron ore deposits and gold had loads of acacia forests. So as a result of this, Kush was renowned for its, its iron industry and its skills in iron working. They had loads of gold. they were exceptional. That. Gold working. A lot of things actually you would normally associate with Egypt and you hear about with Egypt of the temples. Yes. The pyramids, the gold working the, I've just read a book on like excavating in Egypt and I mm-hmm. It's, um, it's given me all those vibes. It was a fantasy book and it's given me all the, oh, all the tingles. Yeah. So it shared a lot of similarities with Egypt, even in aspects like government, religion, and burial practices. Uh, but it also had its own traditions and its own language. Um, metic script, The Kingdom was really known for its skilled artisans, as I said, especially in gold and iron working. And crucially, they controlled a lot of trade routes that connected Sub-Saharan Africa with Egypt and the Mediterranean world. So because they were located on the Nile, they had plenty of weaponry, they had plenty of control. They a powerful kingdom, and they would control this flow of trade from south to north. Gosh, It was a monarchy. Okay. so during Amor Anus reign in the late first century, BCE, the Kingdom of Kush, it was governed by a monarchy that included not only kings, but also very powerful queens. Mm-hmm. And they were known by the title of Candace, C-A-N-D-A-C. Candace is, we don't actually know the succession practices of. That was gonna be one of my questions. Yeah. And kind of the reason we don't know about this, a lot of this story has come from Roman writings. so people like Pliny the Elder, Straba, Cassie Steel, wrote about. The goings on of the Kush Empire. But of course, that's from the Roman point of view, from the, the Kush point of view, it's mostly just archeological finds. Yeah. that we've got that inform the stories and maybe give us a different point of view to the Roman one. They sort of correlate to the Roman narrative, but then give us maybe an alternative view of how it actually played out the context. Yeah. Yeah. Um, me script, we still haven't really deciphered. Wow. So if we do eventually decipher it, then there will be sort of more to know, more confirmed. That must be because it's so much earlier. It's like 1500 years earlier, isn't it? It's a lot earlier. Yeah. Um, and there's no, we haven't found the Rosetta Stone for. Uh, metic, you know, so the Rosetta Notta stone. Yeah. Have you heard of the Rosetta Stone? Yeah. Yeah, yeah This is a, It's a stone that was found engraved in three different scripts. It was hieroglyphic, demonic, and Greek, and it was the same passage in each script. So that allowed us, because we knew the Greek, we could therefore figure out the hieroglyphic and demonic script. So our understanding of Egyptian Egyptian hieroglyphs comes from this initial translation. That we figured out from the Rosetta Stone and is why we the hieroglyphs. And then became, then became Duo Lingo. Then became Duo ultimately. Yeah. It was Hieroglyphs demonic Greek, and modern conversational Italian. All very cool. so the, the Candace is the queens. so we don't know their succession practices, but what is not in doubt is the power and respect given to these royal women. They really held prominence in the Cushite society, particularly during this metic period of around sort of five 90 BCE onwards. Term Candace is a latinized version of a metic term, Kataki or kaki, uh, which could mean queen Regent, queen mother, royal woman. but they had their own specific title and were really regarded, much like actually Egyptians as well. They were held in high esteem and Amman Aus is one of the most renowned of these canes. the political climate at the time of her reign was really heavily influenced by the rise of the Roman Empire under Augustus. So he was their first emperor and he consolidated power. And then in around 30 BCE, annexed Egypt, following the defeat of Cleopatra and Mark Anthony. So this, then with Egypt defeated it meant that the Romans were at the border of the Kush of the Kingdom of Kush. Oh. Because they were below. So it was like the next one down. They were, yeah. Yeah. Next one down along the Nile. Yeah. and Manor rain is ascended to power probably around 25. B, CE following the death of her husband. Terra take, She inherited this kingdom that had a long history of interaction with Egypt. Okay. A lot of political and trade ties, but now had this imperial power right on their doorstep. Yeah. and I'll tell what, and she has to lead through it. That's her. And she has to lead through it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, let's go. It's very, Roman wanted a piece of that, of, of course they did. They were unstoppable. Those pest, they want piece of everything, but they do. That's so greedy. And it was such, Kush was such a crucial, I wanna say sort of bottleneck or something, or, uh, yeah, like a, I mean like a linch pan kind of thing. Yeah. In this. Because it, they controlled all the trade routes to the South and they themselves had enormous resources. and if they were taxing and taxing and they had the gold, and it's a power, isn't it? They're really, it's a real power. Power, yeah. so the name Nubia. Yeah. But the Kingdom of Kush was also known by, is thought to come from the Egyptian word for gold. NUB New. I was gonna say, I have heard of it before. Yeah. Is it something we use in modern day as well? Is it like a phone brand or something? I'm not sure I've heard of it before. Yeah. Maybe it lives on, it means gold. It lives on it. It basically means gold. So it's, it's the kingdom of gold, really. Mm-hmm. I said iron ore is a crucial resource, so it's a major center for iron production earned at the moner of the iron capital of Ancient Africa. And they also had valuable resources at the time, things like ivory, ebony, animal skins, precious stones. this is fascinating. The Nile really was. The lifeblood. It provides all this fertile land for agriculture. It's vital for transportation, for trade, and a source of water in what is otherwise a, a sort of arid desert climate. And then you have these, cataracts they're called, okay. Uh, they're sort of on a river. You have busters of waterfalls or areas where the river is no longer like free flowing and they're an obstacle. They're basically a stopper in the river. They're these natural barriers and that's where trade and interaction occurs. And so Nya had had these around there that were sort of focal points for all of this. Mm-hmm. Um, so the Romans have conquered Egypt. Sorry, Cleopatra, you're out. Yes. A classic move. Classic. Absolute. Classic Roman move. and although Cush has had this centuries long. History of interaction. Successful, largely successful interaction with Egypt. Rome comes along, things escalate. It's open conflict. It's known as the Cushite Roman Wars, and this is what largely defined a Manus is leadership. So she's part of this long lineage of. Powerful. Candace is, these queens of Kush and becomes known for only having one eye. Oh, and is that because she's a fighter? Because she's a fighter? Oh, yeah. So it's suspected this, the accounts come mostly from the writings of a Greek histor historian, but the most plausible explanation is that she was fighting the Romans. Defending and lost an eye, which, I mean, this comes up again and again in our stories, that women are at the forefront. Like Zenobia, she was at the front forefront on her horse, on the camels doing the stuff like they're not just out pretty on their thrones, are they? Yeah. Like you are in a battle losing an eye. Yeah. And she cracks on, carries on. Yeah. She's like. I don't have any pictures of her, but I'm just imagining a true sort of African warrior queen Yes. Is absolutely indomitable force. Um, and there's consistency in the Roman sources, suggesting that this, that her having one eye was really notable. Characteristic Of course. And anything, and scary, I think, right? Well, exactly. Yes. Uh, not in a people, our eyes are scary, but in a, it's a badge of honor, isn't it? In a weird way that, yeah. That's what I was thinking, that she's formidable and the formidable is Yeah. The word. Yeah. And that really emphasized this formidable nature that she had. the war, these Cusack Roman war, which spanned approximately 25 to 22 BCE. So three to four years. Initially. Started by the cushite or that's what kicked it off. Okay. So they went on the attack, well, less on the attack, but more sort of incursions into the Roman controlled Egypt. and. These were likely re response. So you could say that Rome started it, these sort of raids that they did into Egypt. Now under Roman control were suspected to be in response to, Rome's imposition of taxes on the region, for example, and just its general aggressive expansionist policy of wanting to take over and dominate everything so soon escalates into a. Initially under a, a Manus, the Cushite forces achieved some success. Okay? So they captured key Roman occupied cities, such as sayin elephantine and felo. Mm-hmm. Um, they also, one of my favorite bits, uh, in an act of defiance during one of these captures, uh, a manner. Cut off the head of a statue of Emperor Augustus. Oh my God. That is like a movie. Isn't that like a Yeah, that was part of a, um, uh, like a tomb building exercise or something, wasn't it? Like, come on guys. Did she chops off the head? Yeah. Casually, uh, takes it home with her. Does she? And buries it under the steps of her temple. So it's, that's an odd response to trauma, isn't it? It's odd. I'm just gonna bury that deep. I did a very similar thing in primary school, and I love this idea that they, it's like a sign of the victory. They are now trampling. They are climbing on the head of the romance. That's what I mean. Like it is stomping on Yeah. Hundred percent. Yeah. Um, Rome wasn't chuffed about this. They've been known to get a bit angry, a bit, A bit gy. Yeah. Yeah. the Roman prefect of Egypt, a fellow called Gaia Petronius, led a very strong force into Kush. Okay. eventually capturing the capital npa mm-hmm. Um, and establishing or by the former capital in NPA and establishing a new Roman frontier further further south. Okay. Uh, but despite this success A man Aus did not yield. she did not capitulate. She continued to lead her forces. She continued fighting on in resistance against this Roman occupation. So she had this real resilience, and especially with the capital Maro now further south, she had this real strategic acumen. she must have had backing as well. You can't just say, we're gonna keep going. You can't just say, we're gonna do it, you need Well, it's especially in such bloody fighting. Yeah. It's interesting they did have, I mean, the Roman Empire is almost impossibly large and powerful at this point. Exactly. Yeah. but the Kingdom of Kush did have some. Some advantages, and these are the ones that us really leveraged. had a really strategic location. Yeah. So the terrain was. Unusual for the Romans. They weren't used to fighting in this sort of terrain. Uh, they could really, funnel them down a bit like oppo, I suppose. Oh wow. They had a abundant natural resources, particularly iron for weaponry. Yeah. So they weren't gonna run out of weapons anytime soon. And they were incredibly skilled at, um, this iron work was forging and they had very, very skilled archers. Egyptians called the region Tar Setti, which is the land of the bow. So not only did they make these weapons, but they really, my God, they knew how to use them. So they were a much smaller force up against this almost impossibly large force of the Roman Empire. But they were skilled. They were skilled, and they really knew what they had. They really knew how to use, and this really longstanding tradition of very strong. Leadership, including these powerful female rulers like Amus, which I think must have just GED up the forces. And if you see your camaraderie Yeah, yeah. Patriotism you. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Those feelings. Yeah. Yeah. Um, Matri. Is that a word? Oh yeah. I didn't even notice what I'd said. You're right. I dunno if that is a word, but we're, you fell for the patriarchy. So this conflict just. Went on and on for a lot longer than I think Romans were used to. And eventually grinding them down as well. Yeah. Yeah. And this has really got echoes of Xxi to me. It eventually led to negotiations. Ah, yes. Which is a tactic in itself, isn't it? What's that thing called? Are you grind people down so much? Siege warfare. Yeah. Isn't it? Pretty much. Just until they can't go on any longer, but augustus stepped in and negotiated. Ah, he was willing to negotiate and the peace treaty that they had was, if anything, quite favorable to Kush considering the overwhelming size of the Roman forces. So they didn't demand a tribute, some sort of sacrifice and they withdrew from many of the occupied territories. What, this is amazing. So there's something about, am. Just determination and resilience and because she would've been in those conversations at the forefront. Demanding. Yeah. Eating,'cause it's a psychological game mm-hmm. As well isnt net warfare. This is what I mean, women have always fought. Yeah, absolutely. And she was. This is a world sort of dominated by male leaders. Yeah. Um, but her strength, it was her courage, her political skill, her leadership really stood out. And this resilience that she showed in not simply capitulating against what seems like an impossible to beat force, she strung them out for long enough to get a result that preserved this cushier independence. So they weren't. They weren't overrun, they weren't taken over by the Romans, and they survived about another 400 years. Wow. And she established this period of relative peace then. Okay. And trade between Cush and Roman Egypt for nearly 300 years it went on. Oh, so she even put in a trade deal? Yeah. They must have really wanted. Chris for its resources then. Yeah, yeah. Resources and the control it had over those trade routes. Yeah. As that court. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I've just put in really the fact that Rome at the zenith of its power, um, under this great Augustus would compell to negotiate a peace deal. Sort of really underscores these complexities they have of imperial expansion and the costs involved. Yeah. If they've got a really determined ponent, these costs in subjugating them and it, in the end, the manor rains made it clear that it was just better for the Roman Empire. Not to try and conquer them, but instead work with them. And like you can have our resources, but you'll pay us for them. We'll trade you for them. I'm right. Yeah. This is gonna be, we're not being taken over here. Our understanding of the manor is reign. And this kingdom of Kush is mostly comes from archeological findings. Yeah. So Au itself has pyramids, temples, you can, they found, remnants of the iron working industries. So you have this really tangible evidence of the Cushite civilization at this time. They've even found the bronze head of Augustus. Buried at Temple. They found what she buried. Yeah. Oh cool. Yeah. So it wasn't like a legend or anything. It was uh, no this is definitely the head was there. We've disco it. Yeah. Bronze cheese cliff. It was, but it shows her understanding as well of like symbolic warfare. Yeah. It's not just the actual fight itself, but it's this, building yourself up. To be even more for formidable than you actually may be. Really trying. That's what I mean. It's like psychological, isn't it a game as well, psychologically as well as physically. Yeah. It's not just who has the biggest tank, is it? It is. You know, all these mini little power plays and also the standing power, like you said, she said, no, you will pay for our resources. You're not just taking them. You will pay. Yeah. It's not even like you could have a little bit, it's like a full on, no, this is not how this is gonna go. Yeah. That's so powerful. And it's, uh, I think we could all learn a bit of putting in those boundaries. Boundaries is the word. Yeah. Yeah. Know your line and stick to it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that, like, it is quite a scary thing to do, isn't it? Because it feels like an all or nothing sort of approach. And if they especially becomes the, the Roman Empire in one of its peaks, hopefully we will in time learn more about her brain. Yeah. They have found a, a number of, Stella, they're called S-T-E-L-A-E, which are these big stone, big stone. I don't wanna say gravestone. Gravestones, they're not used as gravestones, but they're that sort of size. Okay. You see massive stone things into which there were inscriptions made. Ah, okay. but it's in the metic language and there's very little of that that we. Currently decipher. So there's probably a lot more sort of clues and information about her life to come out. Yeah. And to get more of the, have you seen, um, that thing that's doing the rounds on the internet limited that someone, in the Roman Empire complained they got a delivery of copper and then. They wrote a little scripture of, um, their complaint about the grade of copper and it wasn't what they ordered, and it would've taken them about like six hours to like carve this complaint, like chisel it out and. Oh, I love that, that there's on show in the British Museum and it's this, complaint about copper grade or something. Dear, a so-called Copper Trader. It works. So I can always tell when I'm disgruntled'cause apparently each of my key taps is like a stabbing the keyboard. I just imagine this guy furiously. It's just exactly same the whole of that time. I love it. So funny. So it'd be great to know more about it from the the Kush perspective.'cause so much of what we've got is from. The point of view of the Romans. Yeah. So you, from a time span then, because you said there was like 400 years of peace after that. Yeah, that would've probably crossed over into Zenobia's timeline. Mm-hmm. You know, because she was like Syria against Egypt at some point and so her, their stories probably crossed is my, yeah, a little guess. I don't know. Obviously they probably weren't alive at the same time, but, Yeah, it's interesting isn't it, that we dunno these women and we've managed to find in our very short lifetime too. Mm-hmm. the cross. And again, with really similar themes about standing your ground and sticking to your own lane, just focusing. Yeah. You know, and, and he's clearly pretty well, and both with success stories. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well respected. That's such a good, comparison. So often she must have been, you can't go up against the Roman if you are not. And she got in there, she was involved, she proved herself. I mean, it sounds like their society already respected and held in very high regard, these queens, but she was in it. Yeah. And it's contrasts for me so much these days. There's this idea that female CEOs usually get brought in when they know the company's going under. Yeah. It's called the glass cliff, isn't it? The glass cliff. That's it. There's a bit of an argument that that's happening right now with Rachel Reeves. Mm-hmm. That she was handed a, a, a dog poo of an economy and you know, they thought, oh, women would be great in here. I don't, it's so hard to, I feel a bit funny about that as a, what do you think about it as a theory? I. Um, I'm not con it is the correlation causation Yeah. Sort of aspect. And I'm not sure, I'm not sure. I think it's mostly representative that it's so much more difficult for female CEOs to get into that position. Mm-hmm. And therefore they, maybe more often get the sort of lower hanging fruit, which tends to be the companies that are on the downer anyway. Rather than a deliberate, well permit officer that we can blame it on the woman. Yeah. I don't think it's necessarily a conscious decision. Mm-hmm. But I think there is some, I think there's something in it, but I'm not sure there's somebody sat there being that foreshadowing in the nicest way. Yeah. I don't think they think about it that much, which is. And this is what even worse in a way, is what? Makes me not believe conspiracy theories in general in that I just don't think people can be that organized to make these massive schemes. I just don't think people are that good or that clever. I think it's mostly negligence and ineptitude. Yeah. But then you can try and attribute it to decision making or a deliberate act, but Mm. I think rarely it is. But anyway, queen. Yeah. Totally badass. yeah, that's a really interesting part of history as well that we don't often hear about. So it sounds like the, her story sounds such a, like a little spark, like such a blip in history. But actually if that led to 400 years Yeah. Like that's from like the tutors to now. Yeah. That is, if you think about that, we've covered the industrial revolution, we've the digital revolution, like so much has happened in those 400 years. Yeah. Her reign and her, stamina. The consequences of it are down to her. Come on. That is badass. That's pretty cool. It's proper badass. Yeah, it's very exciting. So I was, I was really excited. I can't believe I've almost kept to time. I, this was really fun to read about. Yeah. All off shoots. Nice. I'm very outta your comfort zone as well. Yeah. Not a Victorian scientist, so. Yeah. Well than you who knew, not me. Yeah. It's been a revelation. Yeah. Brilliant. And then, so when did Kush, do we know when Kush fell?'cause it's, yeah, around three 50. Okay. Three 50 common era. And it's now, and how did it go to, so it's now split what used to be Kush is now split between Egypt and Sudan. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, maybe we can get like an old map or something of where it was. That would be quite cool. Get an overlay just to rear. Yeah, definitely. It kind of makes you wanna learn more. It makes you wanna Definitely, yeah. Yeah. It just makes me wanna learn more about all of the. Because I, I know very little about African history. I know. Yeah. But no more about, I mean the Egyptians to me were just a very long time ago. Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah. Same, same, same, same. But even to like just talk about the Egyptians is mad'cause it covers thousands of years. Mm-hmm. oh, you say like ancient Egypt. And think it's a thing. I always used to think of it. Oh, like the tutors? Yeah. They just came along pyramids and that was that. But ancient Egypt, spanned from 3,150 BCE to about 30 BC so it's like over 3000 years. So it's been in millennia? Yeah, it was around for 50% longer than the time between Christ and where we are now. Oh my gosh. It's insane, isn't it? There's all this history in there. Yeah, because also history is like dinosaurs. Egyptians pretty much tutors. Victorians now. Yeah. All given about equal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Equal. Henry Yi gets an awful lot of that. Yeah. If you like compare him to the dinosaurs, you just thought Henry Yi lived for about 3 million years. This is why we exist. This is why we're trying to, you know. Make our own curriculum, aren't we? I hope so. Before we're taught. Yeah, definitely. I hope so. A nice one. Hope you enjoyed. I did. Yeah. So much. I wanna do more. It's kind of like just a, that feels like an appetizer, haven't we? It does, doesn't it? Yeah. We need to go further. You go deeper, but I'm excited. We can do that. We've got time de fine. Cool. Okay. Thanks very much. I'm gonna go and decorate a cake. Enjoy.

audio2572508189-1: 32:55

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