35. Nona Gaprindashvili vs Netflix

Nona Gaprindashvili: The Chess Prodigy Who Fought Back

In this episode, the host discusses Nona Gaprindashvili vs Netflix, a Georgian chess prodigy who rose to prominence in the 1950s. Known for her aggressive playing style, she broke gender barriers by competing and winning against both women and men in the international chess arena. The episode covers her early influences, rigorous training under mentor Tigran Petrosian, and significant victories that earned her the titles of World Women's Chess Champion and Chess Grandmaster. The discussion further highlights the controversy surrounding Netflix's 'The Queen's Gambit,' which inaccurately portrayed her legacy and pitted her against fictional Beth Harmon, leading to a successful lawsuit by Gaprindashvili. The episode underscores the importance of protecting and celebrating women's achievements in male-dominated fields.

00:00 Introduction to 'Other Parents' by Sarah Stave
00:42 Nicole Kidman's Influence in Adaptations
02:15 Summer Heat and Casual Conversations
03:26 Introducing Nona Garrin Philly: The Real Chess Queen
04:48 Nona's Early Life and Chess Beginnings
10:13 The Rise of Nona in the Chess World
20:09 The Lengthy Chess Championship
21:13 Nona's Rise to Mastery
22:40 Soviet Dominance in Women's Chess
25:13 Breaking Barriers in Men's Tournaments
30:05 The Queen's Gambit Controversy
34:50 Nona's Fight for Recognition
36:09 Lessons from Nona's Legacy
38:17 Conclusion and Call to Action

Transcript

audio1958744921: 0:08

And then this book is called Other Parents by Sarah Stave, and it's about like small town gossip and secrets and it, it's a novel, I'm guessing, not a Yes, not a bio. Oh, it's got a little bit It's by the lady who, oh, Leanne Moriarty. It's got that kind of feel to it. I think. You know, she did Nine Perfect Strangers and what's the other one where there was a bike. Oh. I'm not sure on that one. That's really poor plot. My mom would know. She's, she would know. Ellen would know, but I've, I just watched the BBC adaptation of the last anniversary, which apparently is one of hers. And you know, Nicole Kidman was in Nine Perfect Strangers. Mm-hmm. She produced this one. So Nicole Kidman is God not in it, and that's on, but she produced it. And I thought it was absolutely smashing, like really gripping and not, not stupid. Lots of sex, which I did not expect. Nicole Kidman loves the She lives a She's, yeah. Can't get enough of it. That's her directorial requirement. How much? Yeah, I think cha, regardless of the situation, it could be like MI five or it could be a small town drama. She's on it. She's like, yeah, it's gotta, you know what, this needs naked bottoms. It's just, that's what you need. It's says things about her life too, doesn't it? Because if she's like, well this, she's fulfilled to really hit the realism. We need some shagging in this, uh, truck stop. Yeah. Or whatever it might be. She's just, that's the life she's living. Um. You know what? She would play very well. Our protagonist she would sex that up. There's no sex in the story, but she would sex it up. She'd add it in there, she'd find it. Don't you worry. So you've got somebody to tell me about and I'm now going to envision Nicole Kidman inhabiting the role. That's right. No matter what happens. Let's do it. Let's have a fabulous Amazing. Um, hi Kara. Hi Vicki. How are you? I am well, thank you. It is summer, like proper summer. How are you enjoying the heat? I'm okay with it. I'm all, I'm all right. This is like. I find this time of day like the'cause like everything's hot at this time of day whilst it's in the midday. I'm a bit like, this is nice. The sun's up. The air's cool. I'm good. But like, I feel like this time I could be wrong. It's all like cooked up. I kind of have, I, I think I've got the opposite where it gets to this point and I can feel it starting to turn and I'm like, okay, whew. We made it. It's gonna start dropping now. And it doesn't necessarily, but I believe that it will placebo, like Charlie Brown trying to kick that football, I always believe live in hope so. Would you like to hear a story Yes, I certainly would. Great. It is one actually Asher friend of the show, lovely Asher. like, you know what? I will if you want me to I'll, and um, oh yeah, the babe, she's always on the lookout for super duper. here we go. Little checkmate. Also, they thought Nona Garrin Philly, a true grandma had dedicated her life to conquering the chess But when Netflix, the Queen's gambit, made a calculated move that tore down this hard for battled legacy with a single line, the board was set for a new kind of battle. Nona Had so once again, drum of resilience, psychological prowess, and hard raw tactics. Feel the tension, hear the fury as we uncover the true story of a real chess queen. Betrayed, oh my God. So this is like bang up to date if you're pulling the queen's gambit into things. That's, yeah. So we are doing, Nina was born in 1941. So from there, back up still alive today. But her story a really good one'cause it's about like a male So lots of sources today, lots of chess based sources. So chess based.com, the european chase academy.com. Um, there's lots of interviews there. World chess a Forbes trends analysis. I've whacked in there. Britannica, a brilliant YouTube actually video Chess Hall of Fame, a Vanity Fair article. There's lots going on there. Nana was born in a small town in western Georgia. That's where we're going. Not the and it was called ZZ Didi, is a great name. And this was in 1941. This country is very central to chess and the chess world, which I didn't realize at and it has produced loads and loads of chess masters throughout, history, which is very And, um, Nona or Nona, um, grew up there. I'm gonna say Nona'cause there's not two Ns. It's So, she had four older brothers and uh, obviously played with them everywhere. brother, she had big family, lots of Um, this, I think made her competitive. of notes and in particular this really helped shape her I've got a little directly Nona We were really connected and we did a lot of things together. We made an improvised table for table tennis. We loved to play billiards and football also, and they placed me a girl to be a goalkeeper. We also really enjoyed playing chess. So a couple of things to pick out there. One, the, lots of sport, lots of games, which I'm not but also the fact that, they placed her in goal'cause she was a girl. So even from that young a girl. not in in a girl. Oh. Oh gosh, I took that so differently. I thought she was sort of, what did I thought she was saying? Even though I'm a girl and they could have like thought, what have you got to offer? They put me in goal, which is a super important role. Oh my gosh. We've talked before about how I'm too naive for this world. This is the fact. The third conversation me and Kara have had about this is that I am absolutely the cynic of the world. And then you come in with your bright happiness and your optimism. Oh my delusional. My delusional tendencies. And you protect me from, no, I don't think I do. I think if anything you're like, where's your heart, Vicky, find it. I think between us, we make a functional human being. So, yeah, so chess, sorry, chess, we went off on a bit of a, so when she was five or six, she started to play chess, basically. So chess, do you know what chess is? Like, how it works? I, I do know the rules. Do you I know how the pieces move. Yeah. It's not my kind of game. Um, it involves. Anyway, I'm hoping that you'll explain. Oh, I don't know anything. I understand that there's a black team and a white team and they try and knock each Um, so chess actually originated, well, it originated in India in the century, and at the time it chat Ranga. But this is disputed because the sixth century is a long time ago. Um, but also because pieces have, chess pieces have been found in Russia, central Asia as far as Pakistan. And, at the time they were like, oh, this is a chess piece. But it's actually thought now to be linked around different some as complex as having over a hundred squares on the grid. Oh my God. See, the reason I don't play chess is because you have to. Plan tactics and plan set plays out ahead of you to get any success. And that's not how my brain works. I can't retain things and hold onto them for, you know, two, three turns down the line. Mm-hmm. And that's with whatever it is, 32, I don't know how many squares a chessboard, but it certainly isn't a hundred. That's nuts. I know. And have you seen the chess where it's like on three levels and you No thank you. Only on Star Trek and I'm like, nah, I'm just, I'll be in the hollow suite. Just leave it, leave you, leave you guys to it. That's fine. Yeah. Um, but what I did take from that is that board games are, isn't that amazing that like hundreds and board games was around and they're still around today. And I kind of love that. We spoke about it before, didn't we? With, Luke, but these threads um, human. Thread through outside. Yeah. You could kind of travel back to the seventh century and sit down and some, some person from the seventh century could kick mys at chest. Yeah. And it's totally identifiable. I love it. That's wild. Yeah. And not only that, but today it is an industry worth$15.83 billion worldwide. It is a booming industry. And that is, are you just chess or board games in general? Board games in general. Like any kind of board game, it's like, holy cow, this is more serious than I thought. Yeah. Um, but chess is a big part of that. It is. When you see, when you think board games, your top Yeah. Yeah. And it's actually, you know, it's been growing year on year, especially since COVID, which I find It's interesting. So like you say. Chess needs certain skills and is very particularly at elite level. So you're talking calculations, thinking as well as strategic thinking, pattern recognition, which is what you're saying, like three moves ahead. And also like psychological, a lot of it is just psyching out your opponent as it is with lots of sports. Right. But it is like getting into Do you think that they are skills that can be taught, or do you think that they're inherent skills that you can just build on if you happen to be that kind of person? I think, Nona talks about that a little bit, like, I think Oh, cool. Um, us. I think she does. Mm-hmm. But like, I, I a bit of both, there must be some raw but I think the classic playbook learn, but then we were just saying two minutes ago that we could never learn that.'cause our brains are wired that way. So I dunno. So, for, no, no. There were two important her life that led tr chess. One was that her older brother was actually really good at chess and he was the best player in town. So the town of Zig Didi. And, he was gonna partake in a Georgian championship. And she learned how to play chess through him. But the second is that when she was about 11 or 12, they traveled um, to to bill ii, T-B-I-L-I-S-I. Because her brother was playing in this big team championship, We dunno why. I couldn't but they'd heard on the grapevine that, um, oh, his younger sister's here and she's quite good. We've seen her, she's quite, And that was her in basically to the championships. Oh my gosh. So not only did just fluked into it. Yeah, because, because she was a girl, they were like, it'd be great to have a girl on the, so she played some games, what's on the train there? So she was and she won a lot like even on the train on the way there, she was smashing it. And then overall in the competition, the became, came in at fifth place, which was quite a good achievement because z Didi is a very small town and this was like a That is very impressive. Yeah. And while she was there, she acknowledges, that she did play well and actually one of the most important trainers and is known as the father Tang Castle, ledes. Um, he noticed no a playing and kind of. Took note of her and after, looked up her parents I've seen your academy her parents didn't say yes straight away. She notes that they finally agreed. It took a lot, you know. Aww. Um, but they did. They said, alright, go and train with him. And she became officially under Tung's wing in just trying to figure out how old she would've been. 1954. So she would've been what, 14? Yeah. Like proper Yeah. No wonder her parents were hesitant though to be Of course. Like, here's my kid. Good luck, everybody. This, this runs a man. Yeah. Yeah. That's a big jump of trust. Mm-hmm. For sure. But they did, they supported her, which is very important. And it paid off really quickly. So as quickly as the following year, she was already winning in most of the tournaments that she played. Like she was good. Right. And then the following year in 1956, she won the semi-final of the Women's Soviet Union Championship. So we're going bigger and bigger. We've not just in Georgia. Yeah. Now we're doing the Soviet Union. Um, and it says there that she was around 14 at that time. Um, my gosh. I know. I've popped in a quote here about how she, not how she felt at that time, but how she felt, I guess, growing up that sporting arena and her reflections are nowadays. Girls might be born and raised a little differently without that inclination towards sport and towards competition. And this is something that needs to be developed. I think my upbringing supported my trajectory. So she's there reflecting on how her, upbringing allowed her to be this and allowed her to exercise these things that aren't naturally feminine, and, much she values that later on. Oh, I've also added in the notes in this interview, made me laugh. It was one of the questions that the interview asked Nona, and I dunno if it's funny because it's been translated into English, I'm not sure, but this is, imagine like, a dominant idol like this is like the Beyonce of chess you're interviewing, like this is a big deal and this is the question. But you are, you are asking her who are, in your opinion, the greatest and most important players in the history of chess since you've practically known all of them since the Second World War. Oh my God. Oh my calm, calm down mate. That is a gatekeeping question. That's the, you are wearing a band T-shirt. Oh yeah. What are their five best songs? And what I've heard is, as a woman, your response is supposed to be Oh yeah. Named five Women who Trust You. Yeah, a hundred percent. Like don't step up to me with your Second World War on chess player question. I know. No need to attack the age in that question at all, since you practically knew everyone from the beginning of time. That confrontational as we're reading it to be because it does sound a little rude, ational. It really does. It really, it really made me laugh as I was reading the interview anyway. Anyway. She talks a little bit about her training and what she went through and as part of the training of dresses, learning from others, what their games are, what their tactics are, and she talks about one of her role Oral, who is a La Vian chess player who, was very good, because she calls his way of, um, a master of tactics. He's so distinguished in what he does and she really used that. She analyzed what he was doing and she wanted to be like him. Basically. She wanted to be the way he played. Um, and I, when I read that, it kind of reminded me of, but do you watch Gladiators? The TV show? I, I have been known to watch it from time to time. I freaking love Gladiators TV show. And what you reminded me of was those kids in the crowd with the banners that are like, I love you, fury. And you just know that in like 15 years they're gonna be, you know, there's gonna be one of them that is gonna be like it all started. Oh, that's so cute. I know. It's one of my favorite things about Gladia is that they really, really like lovely, excited kids and the crowd just like crying'cause they're there. She also acknowledges that, there's lots of different types of chess players. Like, just because you're not an elite level doesn't mean that you haven't got something special as a chess player because they all have different ways of playing the game. It's kind of like a bit like a language, and these can be very influential. It is particularly, it's, it's a really important lesson, I guess, in looking outside of the box just like pulling on open to Mm-hmm. Um, and she talks a lot about, um, what it takes to be a chess this is from Nona Success is made up of many components. Even if just one is missing, you will not become a very successful chess player. These components include talent and hard work, but also a very good nervous system. Nerves of steel, um, right. We are talking psychological to be strong, you in good health. um, competitive and have this drive. And she was particularly noted in her playing as being fierce, bold, being aggressive of playing, which are not associated with female normally it was quite a, um, at the time in the fifties and sixties it was quite a curve ball. It was quite a shock, to the industry, so it was these nerves of steel dedication and talent, which meant that quite quickly. So within six years, she actually the winner of the Women's Candidates Tournament in So this is a tournament that actually eligible to go to the World right. The of Chess. Oh. So we started like early fifties. We're now in when she was a kid and now like what? She's in her early and, she's going to quite exhausting. Wow. That's amazing. So, because she's won this tournament, she takes on, the match of challenging the current champion, Elsa Veta Kova, who was the reigning world champion So she's like queen bee and they have a match. I learned a lot about chess when I was doing this the match lasted so long, it lasted two months. Right. Which is apparently what, this is normal apparently for chess. This is like, I didn't realize it was such a prolonged affair. I was thinking afternoon. But it, it is really, I can't even handle cricket.'cause it like goes on for a couple of hours and you get, you get food. Like I No, you get, Yeah, so it lasted 11 games through September and October of that year. And there was lots of, Sessions'cause it was 11 games and actually, known as favorite football team actually got wind of what was happening and came to support her for one, is so nice. Oh, that is gorgeous. That is like the gladiators watching you play. Like it's so cool. That's so wholesome, isn't it? How sweet is that? Um, so despite her best efforts, ELs Cavita, the current reigning champion was unable to known as aggressive play. The game was adjourned on the evening, which is quite to be resumed the but ELs Cavita actually conceded later that night. my God, called in and was like, I can't do it. So, that meant that over the 11 games there was seven victories, four draws, which meant that Nona became champion, of the tournament of the world's women's chess That, that's pretty exciting to become to, to get to the point of mastery after like six years of. Training and competition combined is extraordinary. I mean, that is such a fast like accelerator. And she's to the top Perth. Yeah, a hundred percent. She's like, and this is like, like you say, the top, this is, you're at the top of the mountain. You're like, you you are dominating. Right. And she was the fifth person ever to hold that title, which shows how rare it is to have and take it. Right. So fifth of all time. Yeah. Oh, I see what you're saying. That like over the entire time it had been held, someone retained it for so long that only five people including her. Yeah. Oh my God. Okay. And I think the other reason for that is because the championships aren't annual. They're like every two or so many and a beat years. Well, that happens in the years. It's taken like months then. Yeah. Fair play. They need a little time to reset and refresh. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. But also it doesn't take away from the fact either that sounded like I was disparaging. It, it, it doesn't take away from the fact it's still very rare. She then went on to win the Women's World Championship four more times. So in terms of like legacy, that is pretty strong, right? Her era basically is known in the Women Worlds Championships as the Soviet dominated era. So there was like a period of history where it was also women who were smashing chess at chess. And then in the nineties it kind of flicked to China and it has been China based ever since. And that is mainly because Nona took a step back, right? So. She really led the way for not just her, but for so many women in the chess world, which is quite Um, nowadays the championship is, um, like I said, dominated by China, um, but also is a knockout format. But in during known as time, it was a match format and it used to be held in Moscow. Three of the four times that she won it was against Ella Kushner, and one of them was against a fellow Georgian called Nana Alexandria, who actually had the same mentor. So you know, the mentor that picked her out. Oh. So she came from the same pipeline, cool. That must have been really interesting because they might have shared some common tactics and, you know, perspective just through, and, you know, she would know, Nana would know all of Nona's. Ways of thinking. I think so. And also what a moment for Georgia women battling it out like elite level. That's true. The country wins no matter what. Right? Absolutely. It's, it's like, yeah, that's cool. Culturally,, it was a massive moment for Georgia. It was really widely followed. And it was known as kind of the intellectual revolution for Georgian women, which was quite cool. It was much like, you know, um, when the England lioness one in 2022, it was kind of that kind of following, like it hadn't really had a following and then suddenly it was like, boom, here we go. Many women in Georgia took up chess afterwards and it like I said, Georgia became one of the most prominent chess producing. Many different masters over the career. Like I said, Soviet, period of and Nona had a great run. She had a really long run as, master of women's chess. It's the second longest reigning in history a woman at that level. And, most importantly, she was also successful when competing in tournaments that were traditionally played by men. So she won against men many, many times. For example, at the Hastings Challenges Tournament in the sixties. It wasn't like men are better the same. Yeah. I'm, I'm ignorant to the sport in general, so this might be an ignorant question, but off the top of my head. Why is it segregated? Like what is going on there? The pieces aren't heavier. Like what, what's happening? In the research it did come up a little bit, um, and oh, that she said it's like lots of different reasons. There's not like one overarching cut out, but it was lots of, little reasons, particularly when at this level. Um, so it was funding, it was, education. It was women's stereotypes, be at home, it was all this stuff. And, it is a sport of the day. And I of that was my sport, just as good as segregated, you know what I mean? Yeah. So I think maybe it was a bit of that, from what I briefly read about it. Thank you that, yeah, that, that does make some kind of historical sense, but you're completely with it. Of course. It, of course, it is not a physical sport, isn't it? And that's the difference. This leads us on to 1977. At the Lone Pine International Tournament where she had the highest performance rating amongst 48 players, and during the four grand Masters during this tournament, right, which included men, right? And it ended up being a four-way tie. That's how competitive it was. They couldn't even find a winner at the end. They had a tie four ways. So they all win basically. And this meant that she was the first woman have this type of victory never before had a woman won a men's Amazing. That is history right there. That is like mic drop, so it was this tournament that led fi, which is like the international chess body, like Feder, like fifa. But for chess, awarded her the highest honor in chess, which a chess Grand Master. Oh yeah. That's amazing. That's immense. Even I know what that is. Yeah. So this is the highest title awarded by Fight. I'm Short of World Champion, which is, such a extraordinary feat. They don't just give out. It demands immense talent, relentless dedication, years of vigorous study and never before had a woman held that title like she was the first, which is very exciting. Good. And she just referenced in later interviews that her performance of that Lone Pine tournament and subsequently Master is one of her greatest she's so proud of it. And remember, this is a time where women, were barely acknowledged in sport. So go, go Nona. She's brilliant. Outstanding. And on top of that, she casually became an Olympian at the same time. So she, at this time chess was in the Olympics and she won 10 team gold medals over 11 different competitions. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. With your 10 gold medals. Um mm-hmm. And then she ended up dominating the chess world for pretty much half a century. Right? Like her, because she started so young and she's still alive to date, like she's had so far. And her most recent wins were, I think 2022. Like really up to date. She takes parts in senior tournaments now, and is winning, you know, Um, she loves it. It's a passion. So ultimately I think we can say hands down a lot of success. She's had a lot. Yeah, she's, she's done all right out of it. She's like, world class. You literally can't do better. There's, there's nowhere to go from there. You have absolutely reached the peak. percent. Um, is she. Um, she references that she will play chess for as long as she can, unless her mind doesn't allow her to do so. She summarizes that chess has no nationality and it's just one universe. And that is the universe of chess and it brings so much positive energy and she references that it'll actually make you live longer. So I dunno what that says about us, but yeah. Oh yeah, we better badass. You better find something alternative or get on it. We need to get on the chest training. We need to do something. So all this amazing success and then what happens is that Hollywood comes a knocking, um, well, they kind of come a knocking. Is Netflix Hollywood? I think Netflix is a little bit right? Yeah, yeah. We'll say yes. Yeah. Yeah. So the Netflix actually,, pick up a book, um, and it's a novel by Walter Te Tevis called the Queen's Gambit, and they end up making a mini series about it that debuted on Netflix in 2020. It's a chess focus story. It was huge because it was lockdown and nobody had anything better to do. Set at the time Nona was playing and dominating, as we've just discovered. And it focuses on a fictional character, a teenage prodigy called Beth. It is not based on Nona. It's really important to know. Beth enters and then rises in the chess world. And again, this is a huge thing for the game of chess. Like this is a good story for chess, right? That you've got this multimillion blockbuster show coming out, focusing on your industry. Focusing a girl with really high quality production. It actually ended up winning Emmy's. I didn't realize. Really good. And um. I was gonna say, guess how many households watched it? But you've got the notes, so that would be cheating. Oh, was it? How many households was it? 62 million. Damn right. 62 million. And households, that's not like there's multiple people. Individuals, yeah. Often in households. So a big deal so you can understand on as utter dismay when the show drops an absolute bomb. Right. Which is summed up by this quote from Vanity Fair. A chess commentator compares the fictional Harmon to real life. Karin Vli. Colleen Karin Vli the female world champion, and saying that she has never faced men before panning to a character in the audience who resembles Karin Vli. And what have we learned, Kara, She was a world champion, a grand, not a female grand master. She was a grandma who had in fact played against men as well as women. Yeah. Across decades of a career. Well, at that point, yeah, there were no shortcomings in her achievement. What the hell? It's just a lie. Lie. It's a bare face and lie that Netflix pops in there and then spread to 62 million households. Right. And not only did Nana play men, just like I said, she played at least 59 of them and often simultaneously in a game. Apparently there's types of games where you can play lots of people at the same time. She not only played them, but played them all at the same time. Uh, why did they need to even involve that? It's so frustrating as a move and like this is a legacy that they are erasing. This is decades of hard work, study resilience, shattering class ceilings, climbing ladders, that in very difficult circumstances, can you imagine, I'm not being funny, but out of those 59 men, I imagine some of them were a little bit sexist when you're playing them in terms of like the psychological resilience. Right. It'd be statistically speaking, likely. Very likely. Likely. It's likely that, you know, she went up against so much to get to where she was, and then Netflix had the audacity to then, you know, be sexist back and absolutely belittle what her achievements I know the anger. Yeah. It's not, it's not okay. It's not thing, it's well of like, okay. Hitting women against other women and kind of, yeah, well you didn't really do it properly'cause you didn't fight with a guy. It's like, but what she did though, it sucks. And I watched the Queen's gambit. I don't know if you did. I did. Yeah. I was one of the 62 million. Our household is in that number two, I don't think that it would've diminished Beth's story if other women had had success against male competitors. No. Right. She was a naive player who learned through she hard work, despite massive psychological and addiction issues. That story arc works without going and, uh, she's better than these other chicks like on man. Annoying. It's just the worst. It's absolutely the worst. So what does Nona do? She's like, if this is what you're gonna do, I'm not going down without a fight. Which is absolutely consistent with her life's work. Consistent to her personality. Yeah. Of all the people to mess with. What, what are you doing? Yeah. It's not a grand master at chess. So she filed a$5 million lawsuit against Netflix and which is, if you think about cost per script, and that is one line in the script, Netflix really screwed up. That is an expensive line Right. And she claimed that the statement, rightfully so, it was grossly sexist Um, so she put this in Netflix initially, were like, no way, son. Like, absolutely not. Their defense was the, it was a work of fiction and the, they should actually be protected by the free speech principles of the country, And they also claimed that it was part of a fictional character's dialogue and not an objective statement of fact. I am sorry if anyone is gonna be, if you trust anyone in a sporting arena to give you fact. It is the commentator, it is the person. You pick the wrong character. If that was the case, um, ultimately Netflix settled out of court, um, amount of money. I think that just shows that they conceded, doesn't it? Absolutely. But what this does show, this final twist of the story, what this does show is that apps women, no matter how successful you are, what industry you are, in what level of game you are playing, you cannot let your guard down. You need to protect yourself. Against every, not against, but for you need to protect that thing that you've built and be proud of it because people will belittle you. This is 2022. This happened in, right? Yeah. People will belittle you and your achievements and you have to surround yourself with the people who build you up, who give you energy, who build up your self-worth. So you are never torn down. Don't let people like this tear you down. Surround yourself with positive Let no one absolutely no one take your achievements away. Especially a billion dollar corporation. Jesus Christ. So I think that is an absolutely amazing ending of the, no, I'm not taking And if there's a lesson to learn from Nona, it is that, and you know, that's why I wanted the table I I love it. Thank you so much. What an interesting person and how foolish of them to, they could have just not done that one line. They could have not cast that person who looked like her. Yeah. What, why, why would they go down that road? Mm-hmm. And the fact that she did not stand for it is inspir inspiring. Yeah. Go Her is right. Yeah. All right. All right. I'm riled up now. It made me so angry. Clearly when you settle outta court, that tells a story, doesn't it? And also, why would she care about your Doesn't make, it Doesn't make any sense. I think, yeah. Your first Amendment rights don't entitle you to lie about someone you know substantially. And yeah, talk, talk rubbish about their career. So, you know, turns out. So that is the story of Nona Gvi. Thank you ever so much. Very interesting. Thank you.

audio2663295054: 38:29

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