37. Texas Guinan: Jazz Age Diva and Speakeasy Queen

The Daring Life of Texas Guinan: Bootlegger, Entertainer, and Hollywood Star

In this episode of 'She Changed History,' hosts Vicky and Cara dive into the adventurous life of Mary Louise Cecilia 'Texas' Guinan. 1920s America, Prohibition and fashion! Born in Waco, Texas, Guinan pursued her dreams of entertainment from a young age, transitioning from a vaudeville performer to a Hollywood star and nightclub hostess. Despite operating during the prohibition era, she ran illegal yet highly popular speakeasies, often escaping legal consequences with charm and backing from organized crime. The episode offers a nuanced look at her dual identity as both beloved entertainer and controversial figure in American history.

Sources are: 

Encyclopedia Britannica
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Texas-Guinan

Texas State Historical Association and Waco, Texas history blog
https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/guinan-mary-louise-cecilia-texas
https://wacohistory.org/items/show/216

Vogue Magazine
https://www.vogue.com/article/texas-guinan-20th-century-actress-nasty-woman

Oxford American magazine
https://oxfordamerican.org/oa-now/texas-guinan-california-first-cowgirl

Columbia University’s Women Film Pioneers Project 
https://wfpp.columbia.edu/pioneer/ccp-texas-guinan/

https://www.robertloerzel.com/2024/09/02/texas-guinans-bang-up-green-mill-show/

One Summer: America, 1927 by Bill Bryson

00:00 Introduction and Casual Banter
00:44 Dogs
02:19 Podcast Rituals and Showbiz Talk
02:58 Introducing Texas Guinan
04:04 Early Life and Ambitions
08:14 Vaudeville and Broadway Journey
11:33 Hollywood Stardom and Prohibition Era
18:52 The Rise of Speakeasies
19:39 Texas Guinan: The Shrewd Businesswoman
20:33 The Glamorous and Scandalous Clubs
25:03 The Dark Side of the Nightlife
27:03 The Legal Battles and Public Persona
30:16 The Final Act: Guinan's Legacy
33:53 Conclusion and Reflections

Transcript

video1081128666: 0:08

Maybe we can do it in two bites. If it cos out, then obviously we'll take a break and Yeah, I can stop and then go again. Sort that out. Ready? I am ready. Hi Cara. Hi Vicki. How are you doing? I am very well considering. Yeah, we're doing all right. Considering. Yeah, considering what are we considering as we weigh up how well you are considering? My sweat to skin ratio. Really? That's what we're considering. It's extremely high for everyone right now, but it's okay. My God, no one can smell me. That's the beauty of podcast. There's no smell of vision. So, uh, we're good. I think we're gonna go walk the dog after this'cause he is it's so, um, it's so hard for them. It's so hard for papa. This is in the same boat? Yeah, same boat. We've done some sniff games instead of a walk this morning. Oh, that's cute. Well, I love Ted on his sniff He loves, he loves to sniff. He's uh, he would be very offended at being called games, but Yeah. And you know, is jam happy to walk when it's dark outside? Does he get freaked out? Yeah, he's fine. No, no. Freak out. He, um. He's very easily pleased. Jumbo. He really Aw is very minimal. So he's just a bit like we've only been out once because also they can't detect the heat can they? They're rubbish at being like, well, now I'm too hot. They just can't deal I don't know. This might be that thing of dogs being like their owners and you're quite chill and quite contented. So jam is, whereas Ted. Walks into a hot room and looks at me with complete disdain. Does he? And just kind of goes, oh, like flux over on his side. Like, Ugh. But resentment, not like, not even like upset, like he's angry at me. Yeah. Like I did this. You are the controller of the weather. Yeah. But would jam just go out there and be like, yeah, let's walk. I don't care. It's really annoying. Oh my gosh. Because it's so unsafe and he'll like, want to play in the garden.'cause we'll have the door open all day so he in, in and out. But like, he wants to play and it's like, well, no, it's too hot, Bubba. Like, you, you can't play in the Oh. He'll be looking forward to his little nighttime outing then. Yeah, just a tiny one. Just a, a poop and a wee and a stretch. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I do after a podcast recording. Oh my God. We all do it. We all, every podcast you ever hear. A poop and awareness. Every single one. That's the secret behind the, behind the showbiz. Behind the showbiz. You've got your curtain back speaking. Your beautiful man, I have isn't that? Isn't that better? That is showbiz. I feel that back in the team. And today's lady is quite a tazz kind of gal, so it's good that we're bringing the, bringing the. The finesse, she'd be very cross if we didn't. I'm very Should we do it? Yeah, let's go for it. And learn about a woman who kind. Personifies some extremes in American history and some extremes, maybe even of our national character. So I thought to start off with, uh, there's a quote here from the lady herself, which I think gives a little bit of a flavor of who she is. Um, quite, I like noise, rhinestone heels, customers, plenty of attention and red velvet bathing suits. I smoke like a five alarm fire. I eat an aspirin every night before I go to bed. I call every man. I don't know, Fred. And they love it. I guess that settles my personality. Oh, I know, right? She's immediately, you're like, yes, yes, please. So this is a quote from a woman called Texas Gwen. Um. Texas wasn't her birth name, not Surpris. I was gonna say I surprised to name, but get's like a direct name. We'll get to, we'll get kind of, yeah. Yeah. It's a bit of a showbiz touch. So, um, she was born in a small town in Texas. Little doesn't take a huge leap to figure it out. Um. And from that humble beginning, she went on to, uh, the warm embrace of a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. And along the way, she had run-ins with the law. She hobnobbed with the luminaries of the jazz age. Her life took place during one of America's more strange and lively periods. Before now. Um, so the kind of person who just whirls through life with a wink and a smile, we are going to meet Texas g Guen. Oh my gosh. You can't wait. And I've peppered with pictures, which, okay. Hopefully we'll get to share on the, socials. Mm-hmm. Uh. The sources for today are the Encyclopedia Britannica, Texas State Historical Association and a Waco, Texas History blog, Vogue and Oxford American Magazines and Columbia University's Women Film Pioneers Project. Uh, there was also an article by an author called Robert Lal and. I first heard of her in a book called One Summer America 1927 by Bill Bryson, which spectacular. I can't say enough how much I love this book, but she was just one of the characters. So she herself was born Mary Louise, Cecilia Gwen in 1884 in Waco, Texas. And her parents were Irish immigrants. You probably are aware the Irish faced a lot of racial prejudice in America at that time. Um, Catholics in particular. So they. On a ranch, and her father was a grocer. Um, Mary Louise was encouraged to learn some traditional kind of Texas Western skills like riding and roping cattle, which she just took to, she was really, really adept, um, less adept at school. Really, she was not very interested in being a student, so, okay. She was much more the type to kind of, every class has got this person in it who disrupts the class, makes wise cracks and makes everybody laugh. And this was despite the fact that her. Humble, hardworking parents were paying to send her to a posh private Catholic. Oh, no way. School way. Oh yeah. So, and have been an immigrant. That's a big deal. Yeah. They wouldn't have been too impressed. Yeah, I'm sure. But, um, by the time she reached the age of 16, she was just like, you know, this is not for me. I want to be an entertainer. I, I'm gonna chase that dream, so, oh my gosh. Yeah. But how many 16 year Yeah. Okay. Alright. And taking that risk, she moved to Chicago, which is thousands of miles away from Waco, Texas, and her goal there was to study music. So bear in mind, this person is 16 to 18 years old in this span of time she's doing this study. During that period she met, married and then divorced. A successful newspaper artist. I don't know what the age difference was, but if he was up and running in a career, you have to imagine. Yeah, absolutely. But anyway, she had this like whirlwind marriage. Okay. It wasn't for her. She also learned that maybe singing wasn't necessarily her strong suit because No, yeah. Her voice apparently was. So, so, but okay. She just like, really? Yeah, just like mine. We are all, we've got what we've got. And just like us, she was willing to kind of work hard and make the most of what she had and just enjoy it. But because of who she was, she sort of wouldn't take no for an answer. And she found work as a chorus girl, So, um. Do, do you know about vaudeville? Is that a concept that in Britain it, there's a little quote here. If you read it, I think it'll be familiar to you, but you call it a different name. I think. a light entertainment the mid 1890s until the. Early 1930s that consisted of 10 to 15 unrelated acts featuring magicians, acrobats, trained animals, jugglers and dancers. Uh, I think we'd call that. A variety show. That's it. That's, I couldn't remember the phrase Yes. Variety show. Exactly. And you still have that now in, in a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. We have, um, call it? Royal Variety Show. That's the main one. Britain's Got never dies. Yeah. Um, also sounds a bit circus, doesn't it? It sounds, yes, exactly. Just a bit of spectacle and a little bit of everything together, but it suited Mary Louise because she wasn't. Trying to put it in a respectful way. She wasn't like naturally gifted, but she had so much charisma and that kind of en environment allowed her to interact directly with the audience and charm them. And she would tell them stories about the Wild West and probably some of the stories might've been true. But she would make them laugh. She would tease them, and she kind of cultivated her persona and I think she had a lot of what we would call now banter. She was really good. I like that. I like how it's hard not to, so she's out there working, the crowds having a grand old time and traveling about, so that vaudeville review style of performance would go place to place to place. Then ultimately it brought her to New York City, and that was by now it's 1906. This is the. Absolute epicenter of the live entertainment industry. Um, Broadway is where it's all happening. So she put her sights on getting a role in Broadway and worked at it, did not give up. And eventually, in 1913 that happened for her. She was in a Broadway role, but just like a bit part, nothing. You know, I'm not being finney to get on. That's not easy. That's not easy now, alone then that's like, and to stick it out as well. Yeah. I mean to stick it out for what, seven years and just keep plugging away without any real outside reinforcement. Yeah. That you're any good. You, you need to be, you need to be a good dancer entertainer You don't just get on You don't, and I think you also need to have a really thick skin to repeatedly be told Yeah. You're not quite lead star potential material. Yeah. And to just go, fine, I'll give, I'll do whatever you give me. Fine. I'm just, I just wanna be in it. Like the ego gets put to one side, fine. But it, it worked for her because she is in this Broadway show and a talent scout from Hollywood came a knock in. This is like right place, right time. Um, this is the time in the entertainment industry in the States when Hollywood is hitting its golden age of silent films. And to kind of give you an idea like they are firing off these movies, the supply cannot keep up with the demand. People are hungry for entertainment and, um. The production of movies was happening at a rate of about double the age of Netflix and stuff. You, you think the demand right now is quite high, high double it. So they are just turning out this stuff and with her, her cute looks and her roping and riding skills. Oh, I see. She was a bit of a specialist act. Yeah. So that. Set of skills is how she got her permanent nickname of Texas. She, she took that as her like Hollywood name and that was it for the rest of her life. Oh, I see. I get it now. It's I love it. Yeah, right. So yeah, Tex, Texas, um, text, they, they started featuring her in movies where she was sort of like the central attraction in about 1918. Okay. She is iconically said to have been the first movie Cowgirl. So, you know, yeah, I see that. Yeah. It's a big, big deal. Um. There's a cute movie poster here with her all. Oh, love all Gued up and her for heaven sake, out with her guns. She looks just like Jesse from Toy Story, she? Absolutely adorable. Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. So she cracked on with this, right, for 15 years and in that 15 year period she made nearly 55 O movies. So I mean, how long were these movies? Are we talking like for three minutes? I think that they were, I think they were between half an hour and an hour. I can't say for sure. Yeah. But in era, that era. But at the time, with the technology, with the, and their interspersing text cards mm-hmm. The little boards, so, you know, these are, it's a different thing. Thing. It's still a big deal. It's still a big deal. It's, it's still a big deal. But she was hardworking and. Whilst doing all that, she also carried on doing some stage work and thought, I know what would be fun. I can jump into hospitality as well, because you know what better environment for someone who loves to be the center of attention and for whom life is just one big party. She's like, let's do this. So she started hostessing managing nightclubs and bringing this like. Hollywood glamor. However, like her life timeline. Intersects with a couple of interesting points in American history, and the next thing that came along was prohibition. So this was a time of challenge and she turned it to her advantage. But before we talk about that mm-hmm. Um, in case it's not like sort of broadly known, there's a quote there that explains prohibition in a nutshell. The prohibition was the period from 1920 to 1933 during which the manufacturer transportation and sale of alcoholic beverages was made illegal Oh, no boo for you. No booze for anyone. Um, well, except Oh, unless you be elect. Yes. So, once that act was in place, there was about a decade of time when it stood as law and was it is, and you know, it took a while to kind of like come up and it took a while to sort of disintegrate, but it's still a solid decade of. You know, from a modern perspective. Yeah. And this is countrywide bonkers, right? Con countrywide with a couple of notable exceptions, but for the purposes of this conversation, yes. Okay. Nationally. Prohibition and there were those who still wanted to drink alcohol, me. And there were those, right? Like all of us. There were those who were finding a way to sell it to them. And then there was the law enforcement side of things that was trying to squash that and sort of shut it down. So just to give you an idea, what people who broke prohibition law were, um, kind of looking down the barrel of. If you had a first conviction, so it, it gets worse from here. This is your entry level, uh, conviction for prohibition offenses. You could get a fine of up to a thousand dollars, which is$16,000 in today's money. 16,000. 16001st offense and or imprisonment for up to six months. My God. So any business premises that breaks prohibition law. Even a business where the proprietors had given their customer a glass and some ice for their own liquor that they snuck in. Right. That's an offense because you are facilitating someone drinking alcohol. So the um, the law enforcement could come along and padlock your door. Literally. I did know that. Yeah. They would padlock. For a year. Just so dramatic. So it's so dramatic and it's like, it's so counterintuitive now, but you sort of think, oh. Businesses failed restaurants, failed bars, nightclubs, breweries, distilleries, the tax income that would've come off of the sale of that alcohol, the shipping companies, all the people who worked in hospitality out of work. So it said, in one of the articles I read, a quarter of a million people lost their legitimate jobs overnight. And this was while America was already in a mild recession and. Heading towards the Great Depression. So was it a religious The, the person who came up with it, apparently as a child, a farm hand who was drunk, had stuck him in the foot with a pitchfork. I remember this. Yes. It, it, alcohol is the root of all evil and the, he was really, really good at staying. But how did he get the whole on message country insane. I think he had a lot of bully Boy mud slinging. Techniques that he used to kind of frighten any opponents, and people kind of got behind it. They were like, oh yeah, this is, oh my God, he's so clear. It's, it's so persuasive because he, he didn't muddy the water. He didn't pull in anything else. Just this singular message. Message one message, this will fix us. This will make our nation great again. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh no. Oh, no. Um, so yes, and unfortunately for him. When the law circumscribes, personal liberty, there's always somebody who sees that as an opportunity. Yeah. And so with the prohibition came the rise of organized crime. Mm-hmm. Um, bootleggers, moonshiners, people who transported alcohol illegally. The theft of a few exempt forms of alcohol, such as the ones that doctors were allowed because they were the medium that medicine would be distilled into. Those things would be robbed, often violently, of course. Um, and then you have. The illegal nightclubs. So you will have heard the term speakeasies or speaks as apparently, I feel weird saying it. Oh, oh, get this. They were apparently also called a beer flat. A blind pig. A blind tiger. It's all very like day to day. It's very strange. I don't know if these things are true. I'm just reading them. I think so funny. That's what a speakeasy easy is. A speakeasy is an illegal alcohol venue. Right? It's like a little, it's like C million vibe. Yeah, like a little hidden club that you can go into and get a drink. And so now we come back to Texas, Gwen,'cause she, she's that, she's there. She's a shrewd businesswoman and she's got a keen eye for fun. And Americans during this time still wanted fun. Yeah, it was a dull time and she did not care. You know about breaking the rules and the risks of fines, the risks of imprisonment, whatever. So I've got a quote here that I think explains her position pretty well. What Americans needed, judge Gwen was a place where they could escape. So she set up her clubs and between the hours at 10:00 PM and 6:00 AM customers were free to do as they pleased. It's like a little naughty, a little naughty do ghost. Mm-hmm. That, that's quite broad. She's in there. She's the hostess. She's this powerhouse where even though it's kind of like a freer age, the jazz age, women are still not really having any kind of legal parody. They're sort of fighting to be heard, but she's out there commanding attention, commanding respect, and making these illegal clubs the place to be. Are you saying clubs are in plural? She had more than one. She did, she had a lot of irons and a lot of fires, and she would move about and Oh, I'm so jealous. The show on the road. Yeah. Um, if you read Shrines of Gaity by Kate Atkinson Yes, I did. Yeah. You know, um, uh, ma. Oh gosh, I can't think of the character. Oh, I know, I know the character there. The Proprietress who just would have one club pop up, another club pop up. Yeah. Very much that vibe. And they all had funky Like the Egyptian what the character's Do you know what I have it. I pulled it up. It is Nelly Coker. Nelly Mark Coker. That's it. Yeah. Oh. And her gorgeous son that. Oh. But anyway. I know. Um. She writes A good Scotsman does. Kay Atkinson. Right. Anyway, I'm getting distracted. There's a quote here from the New Yorker, from 1920. Yeah, about. Texas Gwynn and her nightclubs. there is one woman who gets away with vulgarity, and that of course is t Texas Gwynn. The club is terrible. It is rowdy. It is vulgar. It is Malin. It is. Terrifically vital. At any rate, the place after two o'clock is always jammed to the doors. Oh, it is a turf and terrible place. Everybody should go once in a lifetime. Yes. What a review. It's irresistible. It's so good, isn't it? Just irresistible to people and that's the key. To her success that Texas gave people the thrill of a scandalous sort of, I was just thinking scandal. That made me think a scandal once in your lifetime. Oh. But she kept it all kind of light and playful, so, okay. Not dark, not seedy. She's No, well, quite seedy I reckon. But quite seedy. Yeah, like in a fun way. Like fun, seedy. So you know, you, Ooh. But you know, you're basically kind of probably safe. Seems all right. So she's maintaining that. Veneer of, ah, it's all right. Really? Because whilst she's out there doing this breaking prohibition laws and hostessing these quite sort of like risque clubs, she's still a movie star. Yeah. So she's blurring the lines. She's going between New York and Chicago and Hollywood, and she's drawing in all of these talents, the, the, the kind of superstars of her generation. Confidence to do. All of this is beyond And also this self-belief. The self-belief you must have to rock on is in buckets. Bed. Absolutely. I love it. Bucket loads of confidence and mingling with, you know, these incredible talents. And she herself is just kind of. Like a Be. Oh, maybe a Bee Movie actress. Yeah. Yeah. I get that. She's pulling in the Algonquin table. She's got George Gershwin, ma West Al Jolson. I'm gonna read you a laundry list now of names. Mm-hmm. Clara Bow, John Barry Moore, Dorothy Parker, Rudolph Valentino. They're all regulars at her clubs. And these are names that here we are a hundred years later. Yeah. We still know who these people were. Yeah, like, yeah. Yeah. These were the crowd, they classic, classic as well. Now they're turning up to see her and to see the, this environment that she's created. So. It's a little bit, bit like Cilla Black, like that's a little bit of the vibe I'm getting because Cilla Black back in the day, I love, she knew everyone and everything and she was also this like you know, could command But also, like you say, I would than a-list and all that kind of stuff. A little bit of that calm, yeah. And made people feel good, which is great. But. Unfortunately for this specific use case, it masked a kind of darker truth because behind all the fun and celebrities and the kind of ooh, controversial, ooh, it actually was quite dark. It was organized and bankrolled by organized crime. The reason that they weren't prosecuted as often as they probably should have been was because there were mob heavies sort of making that. Is the case. I, they would employ, like, again, shrines of Gaity. They were employing scandalously young girls to sing, dance, and mingle. Ew, whatever that may mean. Ew. Right. And I mean Texas herself sort of seemed to have a bit of charm about it and kind of thought she was giving these girls away into entertainment and industry. Yeah. And she would apparently, probably rightfully so as well. Probably not. Yeah. This is it. She's like, experience, it did me no harm. This, this is your opportunity kid like Yeah. And she would introduce them and try to sort of big them up and say, oh, she's just the sweetest little thing you ever did see and try to like get the crowd on side. And then there was also like ha, that factor, the Sila black factor of how she treats her guests and this is her kind of real secret sauce'cause. That sas, you think, oh, she can't possibly be up to anything. No. Good. She's adorable. So she was this like beautiful statuesque, fashionable figure, always with a cheeky smile. And her punchline when she would greet people was to say, hello suckers. Um, and there's a quote there to explain what she meant by it. Uh, she once explained it as her way of saying, hello, pal. Aren't we all alike after Which is uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that. Cute. So. The law did come a knocking ultimately and serving alcohol. Everyone knew she was doing it, but she always came out swinging. So that just added to her kind of rebellious appeal. Oh, sorry. It added to the brand. Yeah, it did. If you, um, if you care to read this quote from one of her trials. Ms. Quinn's particular function was to make a whoopee. A prosecutor told the jurors she made everyone feel at home in a Jovi way. There was entertainment, the silliest of songs and jokes, and the thumbing of noses at the These exhibitions of whoopee were going on while the guests of the establishment were getting thoroughly in the spirits of the occasion, thanks to the liquor they had obtained, the all male jury. Found her not guilty. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hey, Fred, how about you let me off? Like she, that, that juror obviously, or that, um, prosecutor obviously thought I've got her banged to rights. I'm gonna tell them exactly who she is and they were like, we love her. Give us more of her. What the alcohol, what's the address? How do we find the slaves? So she got arrested 49 times. Oh, that's a lot. That's almost as many movies as she did. Yeah. Like an arrest and then a movie, an arrest, and then a movie. She went to trial twice, so, and it was a mistake when she did. That's the stats. To you trust, isn't it? If you are getting picked up 49 times and only going to court twice, I'll have of those odds, they're pretty odds. I think that sounds pretty good. And like she was never going to be found guilty because she just had this natural ease, this natural, I don't understand glamor. And she would make the jury laugh. And then the prosecutors came across as these pinched little weirdos, and she also had. The heft of organized crime behind her. They had money, they would back her up sort of with legal force and also threatening anyone who would be testifying against her. And they had super, super well educated lawyers that they would bring in and they'd find the because have money. Yeah. Um. So she, isn't that interesting that she she was playing a show when she was in court. Yeah. Right. She was. And she was manipulating was a role, the crowd was a role. yeah, yeah. Like it, it was, it was all just on that edge. Always. Just on that edge. So she would've said, I'm a proprie and I'm an entertainer, not a bootlegger. It's free to do as she pleased because the juries would agree with her. And so she carried on breaking the law. Okay. And apparently her, one of her places was padlocked, apparently. And Gwen decided this was a great cover. So she left the padlock in place and opened the delivery door, made in the back alley so that the party could carry on. I'm like. In love that is genius. Just absolute genius. Yeah. She was an entertainer. She understood spectacle. Another story which is much darker is that because a lot of criminal types would come to these clubs, which was part of the frisson for like the, you know, the well healed, but. They were criminals, so occasionally it would bubble over. And at one point in one of her Chicago clubs, there was a fatal shooting and the police did intervene, obviously, and they, um, required her to come and make a statement. So she said, yes, fine. Uh, hold that thought, and summoned a limousine and called the media to present this spectacle of her going to the police station to testify in her lis, isn't it? It is a little, yeah, it is a little, um. Over, over the line. Bit of a, but this was her. And so even in death, she brought the showmanship. So, yeah. Uh, she died a horrible, horrible death. Did you? She had a meic dysentery, which. Nobody wants to die that way. She apparently was in a lovely hotel in Chicago during the World's Fair and sanitation was not what it should have been with so many people coming and going. And then she got sick, but she knew she was sickening and dying. So, um. Oh, and by the way, she died just a few weeks before prohibition ended, so. Oh, booger. You're joking. I know, right? Like who knows what might've been. Oh, bless her. But because she knew she was dying, she requested that her funeral would have an open casket, and I've got some words of hers to explain why. So the suckers can get a good look at me without a cover charge. Oh. Oh, the sa sa SA SaaS, so she is the quintessential, lovable rogue. There were 7,500 people at her funeral, and even more came to view the body, which was like laid in state, like a queen, queen, like a state funeral. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh, so people adored her and, you know, from, from stage to silent movies to the speakeasies, she was that jazz age glamor and that spirit of rebelliousness. So it's, it's a tricky subject because she did do so many things that you're like. Ooh. But you can't help admiring the sas and I think we should all have a lovely cocktail. Yes. And take a look at the amazing photos of her once we upload them, because damn. It's very, interesting that she died. She must have died quite young then. So prohibition ended in 1933 and she was born in 1884. And now we expose the fact that I cannot do math. 19 33 50. Okay, so, and you know what? That that scans, because that is, that's not bad. That's some of those photos. You can see that she's a woman, a woman of a certain age, and the fact that she's still like striking these dramatic poses and wearing these incredible 1940s dresses and feathers and sequins and pearls and oh my God, I just loved, it's so 1920s. It's so Booy Malone. That's the vibe. Gorgeous. Gorgeous. Gorgeous. Yeah. Gorgeous clothes. So, yeah. But she's like my age and still rocking this stuff and being like, yeah, that's right. I'm glamorous. I see you. You're having it. I've seen you be Gram, I've seen you be gl, stop this. Well, this is, I think it's important. So, yep. There we have it. That is my story for today. The lovely if controversial Texas Gwen. Oh, what a little sprinkle of, uh, glamor you've given us on the podcast. Kara. Isn't that cool? I don't mind a bit of to learn about, um, a world that, again, isn't in the about, but actually she needed, she needed like interpersonal skills, talking Influencing people. Persuading people. That's not easy. She had, it sounded like she had a bit of a business head on her. It sounded like she knew how to negotiate. It sounded like, knew how to cook up a storm, like create a spectacle and pull those puppet strings on, on the media, on the jewelry, on her even, I guess relationships, there must have been relationships with directors and stuff like that to get casted in 50 You have to be likable, don't you? Yeah. And to be willing to put in the work, even if you're not, you know, like Clara Bow was the bell of the time every, oh, she's so beautiful. She's so talented. We must have her. That is not the kind of adoration that Texas Gwyn and received, but she just went, alright, then I'll do whatever you got. Fine. And I think that pragmatism and lack of ego coupled with this desire for admiration and glamor is quite a rare Yes. Combo.. And she isn't just a good gal, you know, she is a little bit slimy and a little bit criminal and a little bit sleazy. And you've spoken before about wanting to bring in these stories of women who are a bit nuanced and how complex babe? Complicated. Yeah. And so I think Bobby's. Fun one to kind of dig into for that too. I love peeking behind the 1930s Slapper Girl door. We've talked before about like sticking to the rules and you know, being hardworking and being good and getting your head down. Yeah. I don't think we would've been running a speakeasy or a blind pig or a, and that picture of ty her, her hand on her hip and she's like leaning on one leg and she just like so relaxed and so like yeah. What and what, she owns the room. Yes, she does. She really does. I like her, circus ringmaster all in white number as well. Yeah. Do you think that's white? Yeah. Think it looks white. I think it's, yeah, I think it is strong. She'd probably throw it away if she spilled anything on it. Yeah. Take it away. Take it away. Wow. Well, thank you very much, My absolute pleasure. Enjoy, enjoy cooling off once. You can get out into the, yeah, my air. Oh, oh. I'm cooking.

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