44. Nanny of the Maroons: Defeating the British Empire

Queen Nanny: The Maroon Leader Who Defied the British Empire

In this episode of 'She Changed History,' the hosts explore the captivating story of Queen Nanny of the Maroons. Set against the backdrop of early 18th century Jamaica, Nanny led the Windward Maroons in a prolonged and successful resistance against British colonial forces. Known for her strategic brilliance, spiritual guidance, and unique use of guerrilla warfare, Nanny's legacy as a symbol of resistance and empowerment endures to this day. The episode delves into the complexities of her leadership, the eventual treaty with the British, and her lasting impact on Jamaican culture.

Sources:

Goodnight stories for rebel girls
https://www.blackheroesfoundation.org/people/nanny-of-the-maroons/

https://www.blackhistorymonth.org.uk/article/section/colonialism-and-resistance/queen-nanny-the-iconic-leader-of-the-maroons/

https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/maritime-history/nanny-maroons

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-africa-45680992

https://enslaved.org/fullStory/16-23-126814/

00:00 Introduction and Apologies
00:44 Casual Catch-Up
01:56 A Journey to Jamaica
02:36 Historical Context of Jamaica
03:44 Nanny of the Maroons: The Legend Begins
08:34 The Maroon Communities
11:45 Nanny's Leadership and Strategy
15:41 Psychological Warfare and British Fear
19:06 Facing the Unknown: British Soldiers in the Jungle
20:05 The Power of Rumours and Spiritual Beliefs
21:47 Nanny's Strategic Brilliance in Guerrilla Warfare
23:53 The Unyielding Stronghold: Nanny Town
28:51 The Treaty and Its Complex Legacy
35:24 Nanny's Enduring Legacy and Recognition
40:08 Conclusion and Call to Action

Transcript

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I need to apologize to you if we get an interruption because I've just had a notice to say a par a parcel that I was expecting later is coming earlier. So hopefully it won't, but there part of the window is during our recording time, so we need to, for, for mum pickup and for parcel reasons, we need to motor, we're gonna get this in one. We need to be, um, laser focused. Laser focused. That's so not. We're organic beings. Okay. We like a riff. We like a riff, we like it. We like a fluidity. Uh, hi Kara. Hi Vicki. How's it going? I'm good, thank you. How are you? Yeah, very well, thank you. You've got me in. I've just had a quick workout, so I'm a little bit of a sweaty mess, but that's fine. What count is this? A little exercise bike, and it had a video of Alaska, so I've just done a little three mile ride through Alaska. A little trip. Just a little trip. A trip to Alaska. Very jealous. That sounds amazing. You are looking so lovely and coordinated. Okay. Thank you. Yes, you are. Thank you. Thanks very much. You're going out today. I picked up from the station. I did put some foundation on for the pod for our video content. Um, but now I'm picking them up and then we're going to Tesco the best of places in the forest. Oh yes. Strut around Tesco. I'm like, sorry, we need to eat later. So, um, she doesn't know we're going to Tesco. That'd be a nice little surprise when she arrive, arrives. She'll enjoy it. She'll get to contribute to meal planning. Collaborative. I like it. Yeah. And um, we do have the afternoon offer actually, but I imagine she'll want to rest Very, very long train journey from the east. Yeah. So, um, yeah, we'll just see how we go, I think. But in the lovely meantime, I've got a lovely story for you if you Amazing. Yes, please. Um, again, we're going somewhere we haven't been before. We're going to Jamaica. Oh. Have you been to Jamaica in non pod world? I have not. I have not. No, no. Tell you what, I didn't know how beautiful it is. Like I just didn't appreciate, it's like one of the wonders of the world. It is just insane. It is astonishingly pretty peachy, but I'd never stopped to think about it too much. And yeah, paradise, I would say. And the landscape kind of features in our story today, which is very nice. Oh, cool. Okay. Yeah. Uh, I've got a little intro as per usual. The decade is the early 1730s, the place Jamaica, the shame of an entire economy built on shackles, slavery, and sugar. But deep within the island's, impenetrable mountains, a rebellion is brewing. She was a strategist, a spiritual guide, a warrior, and the absolute commander of the fearsome wynward maroons. I'm here to tell you the stunning story of the woman who used ancient African wisdom and revolutionary gorilla tactics to force the mighty British empire to their knees. This is the story of Nanny of the Maroon. Wow. Oh yes, please. Yes. It's, it's wild. It's fantastical. It's just wonderful. So, actually found this in goodnight stories, rebel Girls. It's that beautiful children's book. And then I backed up that with, uh, black History, sorry, black history month.org, black hero foundation.org, um, mg.co uk, BBC article, as well. So. Let's jump into it. As we spoke about just there, um, let's talk about Jamaica first. What is going on in Jamaica? We're in the, 17 hundreds so the island. Wasn't, it is what we know. It's day as this warm, luscious, um, layered paradise, right? Um, but back then it was violent and oppressive. Back in 1655,, the British actually seized Jamaica. So the British Empire came in. They didn't just seize it from Jamaica, they seized it from the Spanish control of Jamaica, right? So the Spaniards were already. Occupying it and then the British come defeat Spain. This was actually done by Oliver Cromwell. He led the British into this, which is just one of those names you could just get tossed about in history lessons and not necessarily understand what he was up to. So he was up to this. This was a huge turning point. And sometimes you think change is a good thing, wouldn't you? Like change is always presented, especially in our culture today as a good thing. But this very much good thing. It was very much a, um, expansion of oppression and particularly in slavery and plantations, right? So the main, source of this plantation is sugar. So, The British established new planters of massive, sugar plants importing thousands upon thousands of enslaved Africans to work Okay? Oh my God. So we're not just taking local population that's already been enslaved. We're now bringing more people, kidnapping more people to a place that they've never seen before, probably. Oh my God, now, yeah, it's scooping up the hell from one place that they've already done their deeds with and dropping them and scooping up from that place as well. So the, the scale of this, particularly in a time where population wasn't as strong, as it is now. The fact that we're talking thousands upon thousands just shows how fast this was, right? Mm-hmm. And it is the entire economy at that point. They call it the Colonial Project. And it's all basically exploitation of labor. That's the reason it's profitable because you are, using slaves. Just like you said, there is absolutely cruel, unstable, and absolute. It's just horrendous. I've got a little paragraph there if you're happy to read it. Just to give a little bit of, context. It began on the plantations where people from across West Africa were taken in shackles after being kidnapped from their homes. Some had stood in markets while plantation owners examined their bodies to determine their value. Some had felt the searing pain of the iron brand after purchase, and on the plantations they had witnessed and experienced unspeakable horrors that led them to conclude it was better to die seeking liberty than to live as a slave. that final line really got me, that's why I kept the whole paragraph in because I was like, that final pit, it was just, takes the wind out of your sails a bit. Doesn't drives it home. Yeah, it really does. But the mountain geography of Jamaica actually provided a secret lifeline, so the islands interior, so you have beaches. the outskirts of that'cause it's an island, and then inside it's mountainous, it's rugged, it's dense forest, steep, narrow pathways, hidden trails, really formidable terrain. And it is practically in Pinchable like you. It's so difficult to navigate. It's very in my head, and this just shows my, um, lack of culture is lost. That's what we're talking about here. If it makes you feel better, I immediately went to King Kong's Island in the New Kong films. Great. Exactly. So our, our highbrow low brow barometer we're very low today. We're, yeah, we're, we're right down there. So I'm picturing lowland beaches you're describing. Mm-hmm. And then rising up like, like a. Like a volcano if you, that's how like envision a volcano. Okay. I'm with you. Yeah. Just as you said in your quote there, sometimes escaping was the only option, right? For people. And when you're desperate for this freedom, those mountains look. Desirable. Right. And actually what they did was they provided a really clever refuge. It was a really, talk about turning something to your advantage. It was very much what you think is a weakness. Oh, you're never gonna survive up there. Actually turned into pretty, pretty,, extraordinary advantage. And that is where our story begins. So, as the British built their, empire, the seeds of resistance were constantly being sewn, enslaved individuals managed to flee from the plantations, and those individuals are what we call maroons. And they took off to these, these mountains. And actually what happened because people kept doing that, is that actually led to actual communities. It wasn't just one or two, it was actually communities being built and. By early 18th century, what would happen is you've got two main groups. You've got the leeward maroons in the west and the Wynward maroons in the east. We are gonna talk about the Wynward Maroons because guess who their leader was? Well, no spoilers, but so, um. It, these communities had quite a, political structure, so, there, there was lots of people running them and it was quite usual to overtake in terms of the running. And it was almost like a co-op in kind of a strange way. Like everyone, there was lots of roles. And what happened over time is that nanny, became co-leader of this Westwood Maroons and. Nanny is pretty unique anyway, so she's always been from what we know about her. She's always been quite a unique character. We've got kind of two versions of her story, that I'll take you through. We think that she was born in Western Africa around 1686 and she was part of the Ashanti Tribe, which was part of the Han people in what is now Ghana. Okay, so African based. Okay. These stories are based on oral history, just like we spoke with Looper. Mm-hmm. The oral history is so rich, and there's a couple of versions of her story. So one version is that she was brought to Jamaica as a slave, right. Like so many thousands and thousands that we just spoke about. Mm-hmm. But she managed to escape shortly after her arrivals, which shows huge amounts of courage and, ferocity. Another version is kind of a bit of a legend apparently, it claims that she arrived in Jamaica as a free woman of Royal African, lineage, which is kind of giving a nod. You'll see throughout the later of the story that's giving a nod of respect almost, and the standing that she kind of develops as co-leader of this tribe. The legend says that her father was, prince naan of the Ashanti. Who was tragically betrayed and enslaved by Spanish traders. So he was on in cahoots with the Spanish and then got betrayed. So like a trick? Mm-hmm. Yeah, A trick. I see. So they had sort of a legitimate business and then she was just there as part of his entourage kind of thing, and then the Spanish traders did the dirty. Yeah, well he was feeding information to them. I'm not quite sure on what the, the relationship was, if it was business or otherwise. Anyway, both of those stories quite dramatic, which are the way you look at it and kind of shows that, I guess the, the theme throughout them is that, um, you've got someone being formidable at each stage, whether they escaped or whether they arrived and helped people escape, like I said earlier, it's like a very politically structured group and, um, because she was leader, she shared her leadership with a guy called Quo, QUAO, and she was simply known as, Queen Nanny. That's kind of how it developed. And this group that she was looking after was basically deep in the Blue Mountain area. That's what it was called. Oh, that sounds stunning. I mean, it doesn't it but harsh, like a really harsh place to try to survive without. I was, I was thinking preparation. Yeah. Bugs, wildlife, like, we're so safe here, aren't we in brim? We forget that there's all this. I don't think I could do it very easily. Um, but they had lots of tools to help them with that, which I'll come onto, in just a second. Because that location is so important. Just like you were saying, it's not chosen by AC accident. Um, the fact that they were deep in this Blue Mountain area, it's because, it was well-placed to people coming in and out.'cause they knew the, the trails and the narrow paths and stuff, and it meant that they could put lookouts on without being seen. Terribly well. So they had lookout points and they could use their surroundings to communicate, which is so fascinating. So one of the ways they used to communicate was, using this special African origin horn called a Bija, A-B-E-N-G. I've got a little illustration of what that is there, and that was clearly made from the resources on the island. Ah, okay. Yeah. Must admit, scrolled down, thought that was a drinking horn. Didn't realize it's a, that it was a musical. It's a bit Moana where she goes, rumor and Oh, I gotcha. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure that's what it sounds like. Um. I, I believe you. So they've actually built the settlement and they've, like I said, it is a community of the amount of people that have escaped the British and, they've set up almost like a mini town. It's kind of how you would describe it. Like it's safe, it's protected. It's a working, functioning community. But nanny knew that wasn't enough. It wasn't enough to have a safe community and like I said, self-sufficient. But she knew that she had to be like it is commander in chief. She knew there was more to leading than just ticking off the basics. Right. Which is so It really is. It sort of supports the idea that she was a person of status and had leadership qualities like to, to think beyond the practical. You know, and if she is from royal lineage, I guess, what else would you do then other than replicate what you already know, like replicate a society that you already identify with and understood? And the way she does this is through, um, taking on lots of roles. So she becomes the commander in chief. She's also provides spiritual wellbeing and is a guide for that and all the practical stuff, all the, what we would call today as a COO of a company or the operational kind of And this truly highlights what kind of woman she's just like you were saying. Mm-hmm. Just as that, you know, it just shows a certain type of thinking. Basically the Marines cultivated crops. They raised livestock and they even engaged in trade with neighboring towns. So neighboring other Marines. Oh, nice. So it is like functioning. Um, and the British obviously not handling it well. British aren't very good at when other people are in control. They're not really not a great fan of it. Um. But one of her most defining features of Nanny is that, um, this mythical and magical side of her, um, which is really fascinating and I think just shows a little peek cultures, and I thought it was gorgeous. Um, so nannie's influence stretches stretched far beyond the earthly battlefield. She was reared as a spiritual leader who a legislatively possess supernatural powers. Um. Um, and what, when you think Supernatural, what do you think? Oh, I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is something to do with like, the realm of ghosts or, you know, that kind of something. Beyond the visible realm. Like a bit woowoo a bit, yeah. Um, yeah, it's not really my vibe to be honest. I'm like, okay, well this is the thing., But this is so interesting, another way of branding what we just spoke about. All that WOOWOO is psychological, right? And they're slightly different. Oh, okay. And what she kind of gets into, she gets into the Britain's head. And what she does, is. Take a little drop of an idea, a little seed of an idea, and she lets it copay and she lets it whip up into something, that is a lifeline to that community at times of war. So here's a little quote about that, because don't forget, even though they're safe in this little town that they've built, it's still a country that is. Colonized by the British and the, the British if they stumble across you, they're not just gonna let you live happily. Right? Right. Yes. So we've always got this backdrop of war that even though we've created this, Nannies. Military tactics were revolutionary for their time. The windward maroons used their intimate knowledge of Jamaica's geography to con conduct ambushes raids and surprise attacks on British troops. They employed psychological warfare creating an aura of invincibility that unnerved their opponents. British soldiers often recounted tales of trees coming to life. A testament to the maroon's mastery of camouflage and stealth. Ah, yes. So when you are hiding in the woods, the, uh, the woods, the forest, the jungle, it's scary. And what she did was used that scariness to British soldiers who don't know that they don't, they're not used to that landscape. They've just arrived here on a boat, you know what I mean? And she's used that to terrorize them basically, and to develop this kind of sense of magic mystery. And she's used that against them. That is so cunning to yes, recognize, okay, people are gonna be freaked out. They don't know what this place is and they're gonna hear like sort of animal sounds or twigs snapping and think, oh my god, what's going on? And we can, we can use that to our advantage massively.'cause the British are at disadvantage'cause they don't know this terrain and they don't know this geography. They don't, they're not used to the humidity, they're not used to, um, what's poisonous and what isn't. Especially Oliver Cromwell's. Army. Army. I know very little of British history. Mm-hmm. But I understand that these were desperate, uneducated kids in the Maine, so No way. Yeah. These are like 16, 18-year-old boys who've come from, I don't know where in Hartfordshire. And the next thing they know, they're in Jamaica. Trying to qu uprising. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Don't, don't at me if I've got this, actually do at me if I've got this wrong, because I'd, I'd like to know, but I, this is my, this is my tenuous understanding. So yeah, if you're a 16-year-old from Leeds and you are suddenly in the middle of a jungle and you see a tree start walking towards you, you are crapping your pants instantly. New britches required fact 100% and. You're scared as well. You're, you're scared and imagine you are that 16-year-old boy or any British soldier you are just tasked with going to there. Go in there and get them. That's it. That's your direction. And chasing shadows in that terrain that you don't understand it is scary. And when you are. Because when people are scared, they make conclusions. And this is what I mean, whipping up rumors and, um, legends and, you know, Chinese whispers about it all. And there was a rumor that maroons were able to catch bullets that they. Ping catch them and then redirect them back. All with this magical, mystical ability, which stemmed from African spiritual traditions, so it is all founded. Their whispers are correct. Um. Traditions such as OBO, which is O-B-E-A-H, and all this reinforced nan's um, authority, it inspired her followers to fight with bravery because you build it up, you build up these egos of these people, and she was telling them, you know, this is,, you've got this, you know this better than anyone else. And it worked. They were winning. They were fighting these British soldiers and they were winning. It's just very clever. It really is. And I think it, she arrived on the scene after, I don't know how many years of Spanish colonial rule and then 40, 50 years of British colonial rule it sounded like. So these are people who generationally have been. Kind of persuaded this is, this is life for you. This is as good as it gets. And she's come along and gone. All of these things that we have within us mean that we can turn the tables here. So it gives hope and a way out that maybe people had kind of given up on. That's so in incredible and beat. You got that.'cause that was the hope is what I was trying to like portray. So that's, that's really reassuring. And also it shows that women, and I've said this and I will keep saying it until this podcast dies, that women fight, women are in wars, women have always been in wars, and, they're not afraid of conflict. So one of the conflicts that a nanny is most famous for is called the first maroon war. It was a grueling conflict between British colonial authorities and the Wynwood. Marines in particular. So that side of the Marines, it lasted over a decade of intense fighting, starting from around 1728, nannies forces fought so hard and under their guidance, she managed to put campaigns together, which is like a gorilla campaign, which is a classic war tactic,, which was completely revolutionary for it at the time, So using their intimate knowledge of Jamaica's geography as a So they would do ambushes, they would do rays. They, launch surprise attacks because they're hiding behind the trees'cause they And, the British weren't used to it. They're used to fighting on very flat. Field where it's very organized. We rise at dawn, there's a little gun that goes off and off they go. Like they're not used. It's very organized in kind of European battlefields. Yeah, and that's not what they were up against in Jamaica, that this is having so many echoes with the Vietnam War and the way that the people who were fighting from the forest. Went at it and the American troops similarly were just like, what, what is it? We don't even know. Yeah. Because I guess if you're used to, we're all gonna meet on the battlefield and suddenly you're plunk down in the middle of dense cover and the rules of engagement are out the window. Uh, I'm, yeah. No. Yeah, it's, it's, to them, to the British, it seems disorganized chaos. And that's what they're not used to. Once from Nanny's point of view, she, she, this is easy to her because she knows these terrains. Right. And, um, because she's working with people who are Jamaican, who know this, like the back of their hand. That is, yeah. Hometown advantage, like writ large. That's, yeah. So even though the British had more numbers and they had more resources, they actually suffered really heavy losses and they've really struggled to defeat the maroons, a kind of symbol of defiance came, was in. The town. So Nanny town. This was a maroon stronghold, which makes sense, and it was strategically tucked away in the mountains. The British forces could not capture it. They tried so hard to capture it, but they couldn't find it. And when they did find it, they couldn't get it. And they were just so unfamiliar with the winding paths and they were constantly being ambushed from side to side, and they just. Had so much resistance at every stage trying to find this little nanny town that they'd built. And it's just, it's pretty exciting stuff actually, and that they just could not get in no matter how much they tried. Um. I've got a, a little quote here that kind of talks about, um, actually how they attacked. It says, queen Nanny taught the maroons to cover themselves with leaves and branches to blend into the jungle. As British soldiers walked through the forest in single file, they had no idea they were surrounded, but at the sound of a signal, the trees around them suddenly leaped to life and attacked. Oh God. Oh my God. So they were so close. They were so close. You gotta figure these guys, they don't want to be there. They're, you know, they've signed up for military and what they're actually doing is becoming an enslaving, occupying force, occupying force. That's not, they can't feel good. That's not the same thing. And now trees are coming at you in the darkness. I, I would've deserted, I'm quite sure. Long before it got to that point, but certainly the point a tree starts walking towards me, I'm out of there. Yeah, a hundred percent. And it just shows in the tales that follow. So the, the story was trees came to life. It wasn't like people were hiding behind the trees. Even that subtle change of wording adds to that mystical spiritual. Kind of, chatter we were talking about earlier and just shows how good their camouflage was, that even afterwards they thought these trees are coming to life. It just shows that fighting can be psychological as well as physical. And I think that's what, nanny really leaned into as a leader. Throughout all this, she is leading all these tactics and all this, strategy. She's the one doing it and her reputation there therefore builds up. So it was a hard fought war, defending your own territory. And over the years there was many losses on both sides. And that's not taking, I don't wanna take away from the fact that, the windward, the nanny town side did lose people as well. Absolutely. We're not saying this was just a surefire thing. It was definitely, but it was astonishing that how. Easily the British were kept back, I guess. Like it wasn't just a Sure. Fire. You'd bet on the British, wouldn't you? Yeah.'cause they're the empire. Sheer weight of numbers. Yeah. Technologically like weapons and stuff like that. And the motivation, you know, the, the leaders of those British soldiers. Do not care how many times and how many lads and how much force has to go in. It's just like, get the job done. Don't care. Just do it. If there was no resistance. They would've had a hundred percent success, right? Like, yeah. Yeah, exactly. But what all this did mean, and the resistance and the war that nanny put up, what that did mean eventually is that it led to the liberation over of thousands of slaves during the conflict. Each successful raid was like a director assault on the British. Pride economy structure and it weakened their plantation systems. And it's not, it's not great optics either. the vibe that they're going for when, nanny's coming in and literally freeing slaves as you're fighting, you're kind of like also just cutting into the cost benefit. Like you look as, as it's being treated as a pure business. Consideration and oh, we thought this was gonna be easy, just roll in, take it from the Spanish, like taking candy from a baby. Exactly. And actually the people went, nah, no you're not. You are going to push and push and push to the point where you're like, you know what? This is not worth it. It's exhausting and it's humiliating to the British as well. Let's not understate this, like those optics aren't great. It kind of got to the point after about a decade of this that they could not win. They had to face it to the fact that they weren't getting anywhere they were trying, and on this town. Time, after time, after time, and it just wasn't working. What nannie's leadership had done was expose the limitations of colonial power in Jamaica, and these repeated failures actually led, I say LED forced the empire to consider something that they never thought they'd have to do, and that was negotiate a Well, there we go. Just as you called it, So all of this, um, leads to a treaty basically with the Wynwood Marines. The treaty is initially led by Crow, who was the co-leader. very briefly at the beginning, but because Nanny and him, shared the leadership, it was nanny who was kind of the stress. Strategic force behind it. And she was the one kind of puppeteering in the background. Oh, okay. And did support the settlement. That's really important. And this, this is such a rare moment in that period of history where the British had to concede. Right. It's such a rare special gem. It's a weird inversion of a modern. Take British take because we usually you hope attempt diplomacy and then go to military tactics if diplomacy has been exhausted and here we are going, ah, they have run you ragged, militarily. And now you're going, can we try diplomacy please? You are tired and bored and exhausted. Terrified. Yeah. Yeah. Part of that treaty was to officially recognize maroons as free people, so not escaped slaves, which was a big, big change. And give 500 acres of land to their community. That lands became invaluable. You know, that's the foundation of their social independence, their economic starting in life there. They're allowed to build, cultivate, raise, lifestyle, a freedom, all you know, it's a huge, huge whim. The nanny town that I mentioned, the town that they built eventually became more town. And it is still part of, the maroon kind of symbolism today. That just shows how important that was. But it wasn't as easy as, off you go, then we'll leave you alone. Now, the catch of this agreement with the British was that. Maroons agreed not to harbor escapes slaves. Oh. Mm. And they would assist the British in capturing runaways. So this is what I mean, it's, it's a very delicate treaty. There's a little bit of a more fleshed out version of that, After 1739, the British colonial government helped to further entrench the distinctions between maroons and other Jamaicans by employing the former as a sort of internal police force, whose responsibility it was to track down and capture future runaways and to aid in the suppression of slave insurrections. The deep divisions and resentments caused by the post treaty maroon's willingness to cooperate with the British in this way, continue to haunt much of the thinking, both official and popular about maroons today. Yeah. So you talk about driving a wedge, right? And you're not really free, are you? Because you are then part, you're like almost participating. Yeah. In what caused you to get here in the first place? kind of has a bit of an I'm all right, Jack vibe about it as well. Like, oh, well we've, we've drawn a ring fence around ourselves and the people who we used to reach out and bring into that are now, we're now trading their welfare off to protect ourselves. But I can the dilemma, the practical dilemma, who knows what any of us would do. In the same, and also what's the alternative, right? The alternative is that you put your guys at risk, continue. You keep putting them at risk forever. Forever. And you are still the smaller party, like not taken away from anything that was achieved and those barriers and that resistance we were talking about earlier. But what, what is the end game, if not this? Yeah, that's, that's really tricky. That's a real ethical. Yeah. Struggle. It's, it's complex. It's painful and it does drive a wedge between the maroons and the people who are still enslaved. Right? Because, chatter happens, you know, but what it was for the British was they kind of neutralize them and they still get something out of it. They kind of protect their plantations and that economy that they've been, you know, building up. But it kind of stains nanny's legacy. Yeah. Yeah.'cause it was her leadership and her thoughts and her, take on the mythical magical side and planting and strategies that have led to this, right? And one could argue, why did you stop there? Like, why was that enough? So it does kind of on the one hand. Beaten, quote unquote, a huge global force. One of the great superpowers of the world at that time, and that's amazing. But on the other side of it, you've got this huge conflict of interest where you've, you've done this bit, but you haven't done this bit. And it's what we choose to remember, I guess. I wonder how she felt about those compromises. I wonder how she came to terms with that, because I imagine as a person of integrity and passion and capability, that was not a straightforward decision to have made. Yeah. And how much don't we know as well? Like we said, her childhood already had two kind streams to it, two options of what it could have and that, we've got British documentation and British. Accounts for this part of her story, like the war part, but what we don't have, apart from the oral traditions how that internal conflict and how that affected her. We just don't know., But what we do know is that she is, She's often called Queen Nanny because of what she endured and what, she achieved. And it has grown kind of her, her story, her power over the years, and it is such a profound story that we just had to share it today. But nothing takes away, I guess from the fact that in brutal warfare, patriarchal systems, the nanny became a transformational figure. She was part of the military. She used gorilla warfare. She was a spiritual guide helping people, but also using that as warfare. She. Built and enabled towns of, functioning communities to be built. And she did secure survival for a lot of people like that. You can't take away thousands. Absolutely. And because of all that, she becomes this symbol of resistance and empowerment and the memory of her does live on like through these oral traditions. In 1975, the Jamaican government declared her a national hero. She's the only woman to receive this prestigious honor. Wow. Motown still exists today. And, they celebrate her memory through annual festivals and ritual or traditions. So there is pride and there is gratefulness and, She's become symbolic of their culture and their resistance, and I think that's pretty special. Also, I didn't realize this until I was researching, is that she's the third woman now in a row that I've covered where she's on a bank note. So she's a Jamaican$500 note. So she is in people's lives every day. She's the, she's everywhere all the time. The Maroon's Defiance spearheaded by herself challenging oppression is something that really did change history, and that's why we talk about her today. I am so glad you brought this. I had no idea and I thought it was absolutely fascinating. So there's a statue in New Kingston, in Emancipation Park and it's like a and it looks fabulous and every picture just has, obviously it's a park so it's well cultivated, but it just shows a little bit of what. native plants are there. Yeah. Which kind of gives an ode to one of the strongest things that she had going with her. Look at the expression on her face. Defiance my friend Defiance. Intelligent. Yeah. Yeah, strong. Hold your head up. Yeah. And that is definitely something we've been doing this week is hold your head up, don't, you know, be self-assured, be strong. And she did. And she did it in many ways. And I think it shows that leadership doesn't have to be one thing and leadership can be many, many different especially'cause she had this warmth, feminine, spiritual kind as well. And everybody is, you know, when that those towns, those kind of encampments became towns, everybody's running for their lives. Literally, they have nothing. They're terrified, they're possibly injured, and they're coming from. Trauma and brutality that probably spanned generations. So this is not gonna be an easy, Hey, let's all work together. Kumbaya vibe. It is going to be such a challenge to draw people and get them on side, and she had the capacity to do that she just went at it her way and got to that position. She was leader for a long time. I was thinking as well. Yeah, like there wasn't ever a challenge. Well, that I know. Like that I found a challenge of her power. Like that's a long time to be in. You're so right. Or situation and lead and not be. Ousted, I guess is the word, or challenged. Maybe She was making tricky decisions too. Not like not everyone would've loved and they had losses, like you said. So it's not like everything was going swimmingly. Yes. You know, your grand. There will have been moments, I'm sure. She had something special going on. She had something cool going on. Yes. And I kind of like the mystery around her and the fact that it is Aura Traditions and we don't quite know that adds to that layer a little bit more. And I think that, you know, it makes us to worry even more unique. Such an excellent one. Vicky, thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks very much and thank you for listening.

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