45. Carmen Beckford: Bristol’s Courageous Windrush Star

Celebrating Carmen Beckford: A Legacy of Unity and Cultural Celebration

In this heartfelt episode, Cara and Vicky discuss the incredible life and legacy of Carmen Beckford, a Jamaican-born midwife and social activist. Despite initial adversities as part of the Windrush generation, Carmen's tireless efforts in fostering community relationships and cultural pride in Bristol earned her significant recognition. Known for co-founding the world-renowned St. Paul's Carnival, Carmen's work transcended entertainment; it brought communities together and advocated for racial equality. Her story exemplifies the power of authenticity, unity, and perseverance in effecting lasting social change.

00:00 Introduction and Technical Glitch
00:32 Casual Chat and Local Job Opportunity
02:23 Exploring Bristol: Haunted Bookshop and Cemetery Tour
03:33 Introducing Carmen Beckford
04:39 Carmen's Early Life and Journey to the UK
07:11 Challenges Faced by the Windrush Generation
11:45 Carmen's Career and Activism in Bristol
18:04 Founding the St. Paul's Carnival
19:01 Trust Your Inner Compass
19:36 Creating Unity Through Art
20:20 Celebrating Cultural Pride
21:02 The Organizational Effort Behind Carnival
22:28 Facing Racism with Steely Determination
25:58 Empowering the Younger Generation
29:10 Recognition and Legacy
34:04 Lessons from Carmen Beckford's Life
36:36 Conclusion and Call to Action

Transcript

0:08

And we're live. Vicky, you have saved our bacon because you very cleverly noticed we were not recording. And we were chatting away. We were chatting away. We had our whole, how are you? How was life? Who are we talking about? Here's our sources, but Right, we go again. We go again. We go again. Hi Kara. Hi. How are you? Other than annoyed at me for not recording. I'm great. I'm great. The 80th time today, everything's great. We did a few tests. We did tests. Sweet. We did, we were in the unique situation of in-person. It is in-person chat. We, I've enjoying at same farm Good giggle, which is great. I've now made you talk over the same part of this podcast, so we, it's all gonna be fresh and new. It's all gonna be, it's, but it's gonna be worth it. Yeah. Um, so welcome, welcome, and. We won't, we won't do the preamble. Basically. We're both fine. Everything's good, everything's great. And we've story, you've just talked about the glorious Forester dean in such warm, glowing terms that even though I live here, I was like, that sounds amazing. So people are just gonna have to imagine for themselves the the beautiful golden light of fall. And just come, just come to the Oh yeah. There's plenty to do. It's stunning. It's great. there was a job though this week for the council, the INE Council, which is an arts and cultures job. Oh yeah. That's exciting. 20 hours a week, just promoting the forest and its culture. Oh, wow. And I was like, well, this sounds delightful. So, yeah, that's the, oh no, not INE Council, Coleford Town. Oh, that's incredibly specific. Yeah. Do you have to be like. Coleford born and bred to be eligible? No, they were, I think they even offered like a relocation bonus. They just wanted someone who's interested in history. I was like, tick, okay. Culture. I was like, yeah, tick. I go to everything in Coleford and Arts, which is a bit like, ugh. But I've been to a. And that would leave you 20 working hours of your week to just do, oh God. Can you imagine? I could do the book club. It's perfect. I could do, do daycare. This is so much I could do. That's so much I could do anyway. I love this for you. Alternative universe, will we? Yeah. Sliding doors. Yeah. Okay. Well, we're kind of keeping it, well, we're sort of keeping it somewhat local today because we're talking Bristol. Yes. Which isn't a million miles. We're all southwest together. Southwest strong. So. Starting point for today is the trip we took out in the summer to, um, we had like our little goth day and we had, the haunted bookshop, which I consistently want to call the spooky bookshop, but it's not. It's the haunted bookshop. It was cute. It was so, it was so cute. It was so cute. And well worth a visit if you're in that neck of the woods. And then we went to Arnos VA Cemetery. Mm-hmm. For their tour. Yeah. Um, which. I know you thought very much of. I really thought very much of. They were so informative and helpful and the way you put it was that they had the right balance. It was light enough without being silly, and it was informative enough without being heavy. And yeah, genuinely, like one of my most favorite days of the year was our, it was great. It was. Um, and, and you said about wanting. It gave us so much inspiration for this podcast and about wanting to delve into people more. Yeah. Local. So that's the vibe. Today we are looking at a lady from Bristol, um, a really notable, meaningful, but also joyful part of Bristol's, um, past and culture. And that is woman called Carmen Beckford. I'm excited. Let's go. Alright, so let's go sources today we've got the a Vail Cemetery website itself. Yep. Bath Spa Uni Students Union, which will make sense later. Uh, BBC wrote an article about her at the time of her death. And, um, we've got a magazine called Net Vol. Mm-hmm. No idea. But there we are. Um, cargo Classroom is a local resource for teachers and students. Cute. Really, really cool. And. Great web development if you're into that kind of thing. I was like, bye. Respect. That's my job. So I noticed, joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants and Bristol Museum's website. Sweet. Yeah. So we're following on really nicely from the last pod we recorded. Okay. About many of the roots. Yeah. By weird coincidence, I had no idea. And then I sat down and I was like, huh, because we left. Jamaica at the end of your pod last week. Mm-hmm. And today we are beginning in Jamaica and it's, you know what I still think of nanny like. Yeah. It's you. I do. That is a really interesting story. It, somebody stuck with me and we're kind of leaping that, uh, Carmen was born. Yeah. So the cultural implications of this sounds super heavy, but the cultural implications of colonialism, social implications are kind of where we. Where we moved from between those two stories because the Britains are still there. Okay. And in the time when Carmen was born, which was in 1928, Jamaica had kind of evolved over those years. Not to oversimplify, but the local culture had kind of become bound up with Britishness and common Wealthness, and that became part of the cultural identity. I hear you so. There's an extent of IMI of integration and. An extent of identifying as British, as well as Jamaican by the time Carmen is born within her family specifically. Yeah. I love this kind of identity politics. Yeah. Because everyone's unique and everyone's story is unique and I love that everyone has something different that they pull on with their identity and coming from a world where it is not that we are very, um, what's the word? Not uncultured, but very bland I guess. Oh, see, like my culture is very bland in terms of the, my mom did our family tree on her side, and I don't think we've moved from the same county for like 500 years. Like it's very sheltered. So anything like this where it's. I am a little bit more complex, layered, different str. Oh, I love learning about it. Okay, cool. Cool. Well that hopefully then this'll be of interest. Let's go. Very excited. So she, she had very much Jamaican roots, so her family tree probably would've looked much the same in that area, always in that area until she's 17 years old. And at that point, um, she had these kind of values of. A strong work ethic, really wanting to be of service. Reading between the lines and some of the quotes that you'll see from her. I think possibly religion played a strong part of that, a, a really powerful kind of Christian value set, but. In short, she's growing up in St. Thomas in Jamaica. She's 17 years old. She's got six siblings, and this is the point where Britain puts out the request for kind of skilled and capable people from the Commonwealth to come to the UK and help rebuild Britain after the devastation of World War ii. Oh, no way. Yeah, so, oh, I didn't even know that was really a thing. Yeah. This is the point where, um. You will have heard in the news, everyone in Britain will have heard in the news about the wind rush. Yeah. Scandal. This is the, the first footsteps of that. This is right, the Empire Wind Rush, which was this giant ship, I'll show you a picture as we scroll, but this massive ship sent out repeatedly to bring willing workers from the Caribbean back to the uk. To, to rebuild the country. And it was like a desperate call. So, and people went, yes. Do they allow, like it was a, it was a, it was a choice, a voluntary choice. And I don't know if you ever read or saw a small island, but that's a really good fictionalization at that time where it talks about how it feels to be a Caribbean person who. Loves Britain and chooses to go to Britain to help her in her hour of need. Hmm. And we'll talk about this through now, and this is fascinating. So worthwhile. We're gonna come to the modern thing now Yeah. And then dip back into the past. But this is a little quote for anybody perhaps from outside of Britain or who isn't familiar with the wind rush scandal, because it, it kind of. Bears on what we're gonna talk about. Yeah. The wind brush generation are those who arrived in the UK from Caribbean countries between 1948 and 1973. Many to up jobs in the NHS and other sectors affected by Britain's post-war labor shortage. The wind brush scandal began to service in 2017 after it emerged that hundreds of commonwealth citizens. Had been wrongly detained, deported, and denied legal rights. So you've got Commonwealth people responding to that call and coming to help Britain only for themselves or their children to later be denied legal residency in the uk. It makes my stomach not it, it's, it's a really bad business. Yeah. And it's still going on, not only in terms of resolving those cases where wrongdoing. Clearly happened, but also in terms of some of the. Base legal framework that allowed this to happen in the first place. Those things haven't yet been resolved. My understanding is that they were hardly welcomed by Well, yeah. Is, this is a big part of Carmen's story. Okay. So you see there's a picture here of the Empire Wind Rush and all these people who've gone, yes, I can come, I can help, I can do that. Carmen being one of them and they're dressed so small. Yeah. It's an a, a matter of great personal pride, an honor, and yeah, I'm so happy to be able to help. But then the, that first wave of immigration, Carmen, among them, it's 1945. She's come here, just 17 years old, never lived anywhere other than her family home. She must have been so confident and brave that you made that decision and that journey, and there was this promise of, you know, you're going to be doing worthwhile work. We need you. We need you. We need you. And the expectation, as you say, of being welcomed. Yeah. And in actual fact, what they found when they got here was that they were often. More often than not, treated with suspicion, treated with contempt. Life was not easy. Mm-hmm. Caribbean people struggled to adapt to the climate. Yeah. The winters, that's, the customs, though familiar through colonialism were different and different. Of course, they can be different. And then the society itself was still just deeply racist. Yeah. And so Carmen's here. Vulnerable alone and facing the contempt of the people who she thought she was coming to help out. It's so silly, isn't it?'cause in hindsight, all you needed was a decent campaign or a comms plan or a, it would've been such an easy fix. I think. Yeah, it, it definitely, the government could have done so much more, much, much more. But I think it was that thing of, ah, just get people in. We need to just rebuild. We'll sort out the details later. Yeah. And so. The, the human cost of that major is huge. But Carmen cracked on, she set herself up with a nursing college course and she qualified as a nurse and as a midwife. There's like an adorable picture there. They look, look so genuinely happy. She's so young. I know. She's so young and prim and those nurses uniforms, you know, are pressed to an inch of their life. Yeah. The midwife. Yeah. Pinned absolutely on point. I think that's a good thing. So, um, we'll, we'll rocket ahead a little bit here to 1965. Okay. She's finished, she's moved to Britain, she's finished her team. She's working, she's, you know, living her professional life. And at this point there's kind of two things of note, for this story. Mm-hmm. And one is that Carmen moved to Bristol, which became, yeah. And the city that she would love and care for and make her home for the rest of her life. Wow. And on a more kind of a, a wider scale, the Race Relations Act of 1965 came into effect. So that's a long time in between Windrush first arriving and people having to live. With what's the race relations are? Well, it was a legal framework to try to end racial abuse and prejudice. Okay. And in fact, to kind of answer that question, there's a quote here that gets cited in Parliament all the time that kind of. Encapsulates what it is in a nutshell. Okay. Whilst legislation cannot force liking or understanding between people, it does enable government intervention when freedom is abused to the detriment of the nation or individual rights. So yeah, that's the atmosphere. We're saying. On a high level, the government has gone, you know what? It's not sorting itself out. Okay. We need to step in because yes, serious wrongs are taking place and that's positive that the government, I think that they recognize that and took steps. It's illegal to be discriminatory. It's illegal to be abusive. Right. But there's a big gulf between a, a legal standard and the kind of liking and understanding that it admits it can't force. We can't measure that either. Took that on okay, and decided that's where. We all come in. So she, lovely. Actually. Fair enough. Funny. I'm so optimistic. You read about these women, we do these pods and you're like, oh yeah, they're, you know, light and shade. I can see how they got there. She just sounds so, so lovely and optimistic. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so she, she got involved with. Civic life in Crystal. Okay. And there was this group called the Commonwealth Coordinated Committee, and they worked alongside community leaders to try to raise standards. And, um, just a little aside here, so one of the other people in this group was someone who had been a bit more radical in the time when the legal standards hadn't been met yet, because until that legal change came about, that act came about, people were having to take. Direct action. So yeah, the Bristol Omnibus Company refused to hire anyone of African, African diaspora or Asian descent. They just went, Nope, not, no. And there was nothing legally that could be done about it. So. Paul Stevenson, who was a friend of Carmen Beckford and lived in Bristol at that time, organized a boycott of the buses by all the people of all of those communities, and lo and behold, they changed their ways. So that's nice. He, he did that. At a time when direct action was the only option, when Carmen moved to Bristol, there was this legal standard that you know could be called upon. And so he then joined forces with her to try to build. More collaborative and cooperative per processes. Yeah. So I just think it's really interesting to see the evolution of that social pushback. And it shows how late legislation comes in. Oh my gosh. Know it does, how slow it's, and people have lived with the downside for so long. So long. Yeah. Um. So, yeah, I mean it gets, and it always amazes me how quickly stamp duty comes into effect when they make change on stamp duty. It's like within 20 and all the systems work well and everyone understand it's funny what that is isn't happen. Yeah. Stuff like that. Oh, well. As opposed to we'll get around to it, but it, it did come about eventually and what it allowed was for people. To try new approaches. Yeah. And to evolve their way of engaging with Okay. The government and the community. So, sounds great. I don't wanna put rose tinted glasses on there, but it sounds so hopeful. I actually think you maybe safely can. Yeah. This is such a positive, uplifting story. So here I've got a quote about Carmen's work with the Commonwealth Coordinating Committee and what their kind of, what her goal was within that. Carmen aimed to integrate all ethnicities within the city of Bristol and to build young people's self-esteem. Her focus was on equality for all. In this role, Carmen brought about legal changes that would have a long and important legacy. So a nice picture here. Yeah. Some of the team, Carmen's real talent was for understanding that. At this point of history, unity is what's needed. And that to progress, we needed to kind of work together as a community so that that talent for bringing people together and working through dialogue, and she was amazingly creative, which will kind of come onto mm-hmm. It put her in the position of being. Super recognized and super respected, and she's keeping up with her main job this whole time. Oh, okay. She's called the midwife. Yeah, of course. Because this is voluntary. Yeah, of course. I for that, like how do you even have time to shave your legs if you're a midwife, let alone run. A social justice movement within one of Britain's largest cities and try to integrate all these, these different communities. It's midwifery is dangerous. Like is very high risk, isn't it? But she found the time and energy for activism and, um, one of the things that she's still most remembered for. Is the St. Paul's Carnival, which yes. In 1967, she was one of the founding organizers. It is world famous. It's this Afro-Caribbean culture, festival of music and dance and food and joy. And the first festival took place in 1968. Yes. All done by local residents and activists and. People didn't initially necessarily understand what she had in mind. Okay. But there's a quote here from the woman herself, which I think is, um, mm-hmm. Her, her personality shines through. I never paid much attention to what other people felt was right or wrong, or whether people felt that I should be doing this or that. I just followed what was in my heart. As that is the only voice that matters and trust that God is guiding me to do the right thing. You see what I mean? This is all I need. Yeah. Just follow your gut and trust your gut inner compass. Yeah, and especially when people don't get it, because if, if nothing else, her story. She's gone, oh, this could be really good. This could be really interesting. And her and a bunch of other people worked hard, and if there were any naysayers, they went, doesn't matter. You'll, you'll, you'll find out. And here we such a skill like how many years later? And this is still an, an event that takes place every year. So yes. Trust. That is legacy. Trust that inner voice, you know? Yeah. Believe in what you know is right. Yes. Don't worry about the naysayers. How gorgeous is that picture? Mm-hmm. Just all these joyful faces in full carnival gear, little children, adults, people of all ages., And it was all born out of this wish to. Help bristol's different communities. Understand, enjoy, and appreciate each other. Okay. So yeah. Through a joyful thing. Yeah. Or through a lecture or confrontation at this point. Yeah, that's true. Through, through celebration and positivity and creativity and memories. Yeah. So, yeah, this is it. This is, she's, she's out there. She's trying to kind of create unity through art and. Bring down suspicion and bring down hesitation between people by welcoming everyone along to the party. Yeah. Inclusivity. So it was about pride in your own culture, not just trying to become, become quote unquote British. Yeah. Not just suppressing the parts of you that were where you came from. Yeah. Your roots. But to celebrate them and to bring that to the table and to say, this is part. Of who we all are. This is, yes, because you've invited me here. Yeah. All enjoy this. I'm not here by chance together. Yeah, exactly. Oh, well, yeah. You mean from the first instance, I'm only here because you invited me. Yes. And this is who I am. So she was. As well as obviously a visionary. Yeah. And a positive soul. She was a, a shrewd, hardworking, sensible businesswoman. You can imagine the organizational effort that goes into something like Carnival. Well, this is what I was just thinking, and if she wrong, money or timings? Food. Shutting down roads. Yeah. Bringing, yeah. I mean, it was a serious marketing. So much. Yeah. A serious admin task. And she and her team did it. They, the, the event wasn't just a spectacle, it was what they hoped it was going to be. And it grew year, year on year. And even now, people come from all around the country. Thank you. I think we should go. It's amazing, fabulous time there. Um, the feet incredible. Oh my God. Can you, can you imagine So good. And music and dancing, I mean, what's not to love? Um. They say it, it, their mission, uh, as they say on their website for the carnival itself, is that every float, every stage, every performer in person tells a story of dance and of community. Oh, for heaven sake. It's, it's her ongoing legacy now. Yeah. Um, and the business abilities, if she'd gotten it wrong, there would've been so many people who would've pounced on that and said, look. Look, we told you she was in a vulnerable position, but she, but it sounds like she wasn't aware of, and if she was aware, she was actively striving against that. You know, I think she was aware. Yeah. From the reading that I did, she faced these things head on. Okay. That people were not shy at that time to say really overtly. Negative and racist things, and she just went, you're wrong and I'm going to show you, which is such a, what's the word? It's steely, isn't it? You have to practice that skill, I think, to not be rattled. Yeah. And or cowed or angry. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And maybe that it takes a lot of self restraint actually. I imagine that being a midwife and being trained and self-centered, you know, centered in herself is part of that skill. Yeah. Because. As you say, that is a dangerous high risk profession and perhaps having the reserve of calm and not joining people in their anger or p panic or escape sort of fear might've helped her a lot. Yeah, no, it's given me vibes of is cat out of traitors? But she was cool. Wasn't she just completely self-possessed and could come Oh my god. Traders, decom, what's the word When you put stuff? Compartmentalize things. Yeah. Yeah. Just like that's what it feels like, From the little that I've seen, it was, oh, jeez. Good. Yes. I've been watching traders through Instagram and not Oh, bites. I can keep up to date with it enough to understand what's going on through social media. So, yeah. Well, I, I think it's an interesting, oh, an interesting and modern, that, that is a first, we've just bumped feet. Usually, usually report from 30 miles apart, but that was, that was delightful. Moment, moment that we shared. Right. So back to Ms. Carmen Beckford. All of this work that she's doing catches the attention of people. Quite rightly are trying to make the city better. Yeah. And she is invited to become Okay. Verbalized the things she was already doing to, so now she gets paid to do this fabulous thing and she has contact. Yes. She has reach and people and a budget. Yes. Yes. People have to take her seriously. So she's working within the local government to kind of, oh gosh. She's working within the government. Yeah. And working from inside. Yeah. Mediating between different communities that have different perspectives. Mm-hmm. And different priorities. And really trying in all of that to make sure that black and minority ethnic voices are getting amplified into those civic spaces where, yeah, up till now, maybe it's just been like a Oh yeah. We also need to, to think about, yeah, these people, she's there. With that patient, that diplomacy, that compartmentalization, and just able to sort of take these things head on. Yeah, and I mean, again, even though that legal act in the sixties meant that the legal landscape was moving forward culturally in the seventies and eighties. There's so much casual racism, structural racism, housing, employment, education, all of these spheres, and I think the fact that the wind rush scandal even now is still rattling on in its impact. It just shows how long the reach of these issues are, and Carmen's in there navigating institutions that have. I, I think it would be fair to say a vested interest in not changing. Okay. They're resistant to change would be probably a more defensible way to put it, but she's doing it. She's in there with grace and with determination and look at her gorgeous face. She's just, she looks so positive. Yeah, she really does. Settled and authoritative to me. Yes. Oh, she loved young people as well. Okay. She's as well as the professional, midwifery and the civic responsibilities of that role. She also found time to do outreach with schools and youth organizations. Really. Cared that the younger generation who had been perhaps born in Britain or lived here from very young, understood their roots and their heritage, their heritage. And her way of doing that was through music and dance. So she established and led a West Indian dance group and they performed all through the UK doing these traditional Caribbean dances and using Caribbean traditional music. Um. There's a quote here that I think shows that she could be formidable as well as, uh, I'm not surprised when you have self-respect and pride, no one can mess with you. I would tell my girls, when you are walking on the street, keep your head high and no loud talking as you are members of the West Indian dance team. Yeah, no loud talking, no loud, sensible. I look at it that keep your head high is. So simple but so valuable. Like, and I tell myself at work a lot, just keep your head your head because you are not here if you make a mess or if you do something wrong, quote unquote. It's not intentional. I know my intentions. Mm-hmm. And I know that I'm here to do the best whatever, but actually. If you don't see that, that's your problem. If your first assumption of me is that I'm making a mess or, doing things untoward, that's on you. Hundred percent. I think that also, like I. You would never criticize somebody else for the kind of mistakes that you criticize, perhaps yourself, You would assume, oh, they didn't mean it to work out that way. Yeah. How can I help them out? Yes. You would never think, oh, just, you know. I don't need to hear They were malicious. Yeah. Right. So having, keeping your head up high. First thing I thought of it was you talking about the sculpture of nanny in the park in Jamaica. Well, maybe that's why I keep thinking about it, because it's the same, isn't it? Hold your head high, but also no loud talking. Do not be silly. She was, she had standards. I know what she meant by that. I think she was saying. You are out here, like you know when your teachers would say you're representing your school when you go to school trip. I think she was saying from reading the rest of the article, you are representing your dance troupe, your culture, your community. You need to show up. Yeah. And be the best version of you. It's like a headmistress, like Yeah, kind of mat on the ward as well. There's there a curious. Discipline behind a bit of steel and you do not mess with the Yeah, don't, don't, don't mess about. Um, so she was out there. It was about entertainment dance. Yeah. But it was also about education and of course representation. And so all of this work is going on and. It didn't go unnoticed. And ooh, in 1982, um, Carmen was awarded the member of the order of the British Empire. Oh, she loved that be. Can you imagine being on that boat and then meeting the queen to Yeah. To kind of come step up Yes. When you were called and then to have met with. Suspicion or resistance or worse. And then to come full circle and then you are seen, yeah, for not only what you did, but what you did to make everyone feel included and welcome, agreed. What a life. I bet that meant the world to her. It would've been such a, such a thing to her. And it was also the first black. British woman to have received the MBE from the southwest. Oh, okay. So it was a bit of a milestone in that sense as well. Representing, I, I have a note here, although I don't have a quote, that she felt it validated the community's strength and contribution, so exactly as you said. Oh, so she felt it was the community of everyone because she. Amazing. Yes. Um, I love this, that that diversity was not a challenge to be managed, but a strength to be celebrated. That was the Okay. Encapsulation of the viewpoint. She was well ahead of her time. She really was, she was moving us home forward. So on a personal level, there's a lot of, because she has sadly died, there's a lot of memorials about her where people would use words like warm and dignified. Always kind, unshakably kind. Mm. And you know, that's in the face of discrimination. Yeah. With that backdrop, never ever letting it make her bitter or stopping her from mm-hmm. Focusing on her mission. Bringing empathy, bringing listening and understanding, and really always working towards common ground. Yeah. Which that is such strength. Hundred percent. So. I've got a quote here, okay. From Asher Craig, who's a counselor for St. George West in Bristol. She was a beautiful woman and had a heart of gold. She was extremely stylish and was an amazing networker who had all the skills and expertise of a socialite, which she capitalized on. The legacy of Carmen Beckford contribution towards a more equal and integrated city must never be forgotten. Isn't that delightful? Oh, and all the things you were saying as well and extremely stylish is nice picture buried out. She looks amazing. She does look amazing. Network is such a skill. Um, and she needed it. I mean, you have to be able to get out there and I find it so hard. Oh yeah, no, I would rather yeah, just stay at home always in, all in all things. But um, yeah, that's how you make years, isn't it? And even with people who resisted or were. Worse than resistant. Yeah. She got in there and got the job done, rolled her sleeves up. I like her. I do, I like her vibe. Well, you're not the only one. She's beloved of Bristol. And there's a giant mural as a thing called the Seven Saints of St. Paul's. Okay. And there's a series of, murals that depict Bristolians Ians who, to quote laid the foundations for racial equality and cultural celebration in the city. Bristol's very good at this kind of thing. She's one of them and yeah, she's Bristol is amazing at, yeah, well, street art and at. Recognizing the challenges and the successes in its history.'cause Bristol has got some, they're very good at the arts in general. I think Bristol. That beautiful murals as well. That bright, vibrant, that's the Bristol students Union. That's which is just renamed the bar. The Beckford. Oh, cool. The Beckford. The Beckford. And she was, commemorated by Bristol Museums in their list of 19 black Bristol women who made a difference. Mm-hmm. Which is indisputable, I think. Of course. And when we went to Ernest Va and first heard about her, we saw that her plot is in the ceremonial way, which is reserved for people who made. A world impacting difference in their lives. Yeah. It's a big thing to have that you don't get that on and lightly in that cemeteries, but we know, oh no, it's a small space. Yeah. For a start. There aren't, there isn't room for like everyone who makes a difference. So someone's so comparatively recent to be given such a prestigious and when we were there, it was really well looked after it had like um mm-hmm. Did it have a garden on it? It did, it decorated carnival. I, I think it was a rosy kind of pink snow. It's delightful. It's beautiful. Yeah. So yeah, that's, that's Carmen Beckford. And we know the St. Pauls carnival Will will go on. Yes. And, and on and on because everyone enjoys and loves it. And her influence. As much as her legacy is that it goes even deeper. Every Bristol program that is about civil inclusion and social movement and understanding owes something to her work. And I think right now, like literally right now in Britain, there's so much chat about culture and immigration and how we should treat people. Arrive on these shores. Yeah. And what our identity really is, and I think Carmen Beckford life and her work give us some really helpful lessons. Mm-hmm. Because it's that combination of pride in our own culture, responsibility to our community, and working through dialogue. And the fact that progress comes through, sometimes through confrontation, but in the more long term through kind of cooperation. Yes. And I think that's her whole, her whole legacy in a nutshell is just that having faith in the power of community it's so interesting because I thought about. I was thinking with her story. For me, I think the word authenticity is used too much, isn't it? It's like overused in the influencer and the social media space and actually, but this is what authenticity is. Yeah. Isn't it? Because her whole life was this consistent thread of sharing and pride and holding your head up and serving and honor, and that's what authenticity is. It's not what you hear online, say it's this right. And it's, showing up who as who you are, and people recognizing who you are as well. Like that quote from earlier. Mm-hmm. There's stylish, warm, formidable, all those things. And that's pretty cool, isn't it? I feel like we've got a real clear sense of who she was. And that is down to her living her, her life authentically, which is quite difficult in politics. Oh gosh. Isn't it? It's so hard. I, yeah, I can only imagine. Yeah. But you're so right. And I, I think you're absolutely spot on and look. What a person can achieve when they do that. Incredible. Yes. It's fascinating, isn't it? Well that's joyful. A joyful story. That's our, lady for today. Amazing. Thank you so much. And it just shows, doesn't it that that inner compass that in another thing you spoke about earlier. Listen to it. Yeah. That's what we'll learn. Well, saying things like. Everyone should have a place in our community. Definitely listen to it. Definitely.

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