Alvin Owusu (00:00.85)
And welcome to another edition of the best three podcast. I'm Alvin. That's Tori. And Tori, we usually the the plan here is to do these every round. And sometimes we miss a round. I think we miss the second round. And sometimes when Coco golf flexes on him, we gotta jump in in the middle of a round. And I thought we were today, I thought we were gonna get together and talk about Naomi taking down Arena, but what we we will. we will. we will. But Coco said, excuse me, I'm coming into the A block.

Torrey (00:22.37)
Yep. And and I hope we do.

Alvin Owusu (00:30.602)
So Coco Goff just beat Belinda Benchich. it was it was I'm not gonna call it a barn burner, but it was God bless it, it was fun. That was a lot, a lot of fun. four six, six three, six four, Coco going away there. at at the at the end of the shot clock, getting the match in right before the before the eleven o'clock bell. we we talk a lot about

Torrey (00:41.176)
Pretty close. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (00:55.896)
Coco Goffin, I think rightly so on this podcast. She's she's an electric player, she's an electric personality, sometimes a bit of an enigma for some of us, tennis peerers, but I think today was a almost a a a checkpoint of the Coco progression that we've seen over the last, I would say, six, eight weeks or so. what did you see in today's match and today's performance that kind of backs that up?

Torrey (01:04.599)
Yeah.

Torrey (01:17.697)
Yeah.

Torrey (01:26.897)
I saw two things. Number one, I think it's been the four I go into that. I think this goes back to the US Open, when she first got I forget the gentleman's name. I just had it. the technical coach she's got the the the the my it's killing me his name. But she just Gavin is it McS what McMillan, thank you. McMillan's what I was looking for.

Alvin Owusu (01:47.511)
Gavin. Gavin McMillan. McMillan. McMillan. Nope.

Torrey (01:53.946)
All of the changes she's been making since last year's US Open. And I still feel that she should have taken some time off to address them, but she kept the ship going midstream. But hey, her call. The changes they've been making have been happening since then. I remember telling you, Alvin, in the French Open, I said, Coco's got better skills now. The Surf's better, the Foreign's better. It's now down to a matter of will she trust them? Back to my first reason.

Why was this a big match for her? Because she's finally starting to trust her weapons. People are starting to play her to that side, knowing that that's been historically the weaker wing. But it's no longer weak. In fact, it's actually getting to be quite strong if she can continue to trust it and continue to turn it into a weapon. Number two, Coco's never been that great on grass, and her mentality has always been let me just kind of get through.

grass the grass court season as short as it is but I think today Coco showed herself that she can play on grass if she simply learns how to move on. She's a mover, Alvin. How does she not you know move on any surface? But I feel like between her weapons starting to show up and really change her mentality on her own game and number two, her finding her footing a little bit in on the grass has been two real key turning points for me. And Alvin you heard it right here. I think Coco

Could go further in the tournament, but I think years to come from now, she will be a force to be reckoned with because we've got to keep in mind, the girl's still a work in progress. She is still like all of us, but her specifically, she's still young enough to do all this, and she's still malleable. It's not like she has something that you just can't change or can't tweak. She's getting better. The biggest thing for her to change, honestly, is her mindset to not play counterpunish all the time. She can play aggressor.

if she gets the right situation and that's going to be a big thing for her to understand when to play which style.

Alvin Owusu (03:59.416)
So that's the that's the kind of the progression of the forehand that that that I've seen, right? So when you're and I mean the the the on air personality, I don't know who it was, I think it was a British woman, it just kept on and on about the forehand on the weak side and blah blah blah blah. Yeah, and and Belinda Belinda did a I think a good job of doing what she was supposed to do. You gotta check in on it, right? Like that's that is plan A. So you go there, you go there, you go there, you go away, you go back there again.

And she did that quite effectively after she got down O three in the first set and then and then kinda ran the table in the rest of that set. But once Coco settled down and found there's a there's a specific way that she struggles on forehands. You have to you have to run her pace and keep it low. Like it is a if you hit a big hard flap ball, think we're back and think even JPEG to a certain extent, which is gonna be interesting coming up in the match on Tuesday,

What to we'll see what that looks like. But with that with the extreme grip, she's always gonna struggle with pace below the like below the hips, right? But we I yeah. below kneecap, yeah, even better. Even better.

Torrey (05:03.634)
Yeah, below the kneecap. See your point. Right. Shin. Shin shin split level. I but I know exactly what you're saying. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (05:09.536)
Right. But e but to her credit, she started to get herself out of those types of situations. She started taking the forehands that she could take high, adding some adding some space and some and some spin. Therefore, like Blenda then cannot rip it back that low and now Coco's got time to hit the shot. So the forehand I've seen it go from like, Okay, what's the s what's the first step of of of tightening up a stroke? It's like, we gotta stop missing it. Okay. So now we're now we're we're cornering the types of misses, right? They're

Torrey (05:26.565)
You

Torrey (05:35.087)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (05:38.968)
There she will miss, but it's a specific kind of miss, which fine, no one's perfect, right? Now it's like, okay, she has the ability to hurt when given the right opportunity off the forehand. And I think the next evolution of what you were talking about is like for her the the mental switch, and this is probably gonna take some more time, is like, how do I start to set up points so that I can hurt with the forehead? Not just like

Torrey (06:03.248)
Get said for him. Right.

Alvin Owusu (06:03.925)
You give me a week second serve and I rip it, or it's it's it I'm we're in a cross court rally and it's sitting and I rip it. Like how do I go cross court, cross court, inside out, inside in because I'm now building and dictating with the thing because it becomes a true weapon. And I think we're I don't know if it's a seven step program, we're probably at step four and a half or five right now. Pretty good though.

Torrey (06:21.338)
Yeah, yeah. But but pretty good and pretty quickly in the grand scheme of things. You know what I mean? And that's I think that's the thing I was saying. The the fun thing for me is we're gonna now start talking about her tactics. We're gonna start talking about her footwork. We're gonna start talking about other things other than her surf and her forehand. And I think there's still gonna be some double faults, there's still gonna be a few sitters, but that's nerfs. That is nerves, a little bit of footwork, quick players have notoriously

Alvin Owusu (06:27.222)
Sure, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (06:35.565)
Yeah.

Torrey (06:50.957)
had bad feet on step-ups because they're so used to running this way and that way that when they get the step up they kind of preset up their feet a little bit because they're so good at moving on the run they they you know underestimate the the number of you know the the the adjustment steps that you need you know to get in the right specific spot for that ball. But I think those are human you know nerve issues, not technical issues. And the nerve issues you can deal with, you can relax, you can kind of find your you can find your footing.

Technical issues don't sort themselves out. So that's why I'm excited for I'm excited for a game. I didn't think it would come this quickly. but I and and I don't think she's a hundred percent there to your point, four, four and a half steps. I think maybe she may be closer to yeah, we'll see, because it takes a certain type of ball to really expose it, right? But I feel like she's there and certainly on her way. And what I mean there she is, she's certainly past the weakness phase. She's certainly p well past the the

I'm I'm making a few changes, face. She's now I've made sad changes and now let's just continue to make sure that it holds and let me continue to put confidence in it by trying it and not backing away from it if you miss one or two. You know what I mean? Big big forehands are gonna take big cuts at the ball too. You know what I mean? So that's also where the mindset and the mind shift has to change a little bit. You've got to trust that that big forehand you take it is the right shot. I remember Ryan Lindell telling me one time in a in a coach's conference, you take the right shot at the right times for the right reasons.

Alvin Owusu (08:06.199)
Yeah.

Torrey (08:19.596)
He says, And and if you miss so well then you adjust. He says, but it's always, it's always that right there that that's playing your game. And it was a great summation of playing your game to me and I've I've never forgotten it.

Alvin Owusu (08:30.177)
Yeah, and I I would say like in the world of, you know, in technology where I spend most of my actual time, it's like we've we've established proof of concept here. Like we're going the right direction. We're we are going the right direction with that forehand. the serve, I think I think we're actually past the serve conversation. People hit double faults, right? But I'm seeing her not as consistently. She's going for the first serve and she doesn't seem afraid to go for the second serve. Like she's not afraid to miss.

Torrey (08:38.413)
Sure.

Alvin Owusu (08:57.033)
She if she's going to miss, she's going to miss. Over the course of a three set match, you are going to double fault, right? If you double salt if you will fall double fault twice a set, that's that's within within the level of of tolerance, I believe. Yeah, for sure. today it was nine, nine's not good. but you know, if you've got some other tools and she also got four free points off of that, yeah, we'll we'll obviously we'll take it because she was able to move forward. and that brings us into our our our kind of our next matchup here with Coco is she's

Torrey (09:01.709)
You want to.

Torrey (09:07.348)
Apollo. For sure, for sure.

Alvin Owusu (09:25.975)
Playing against Jessica Pagula, who had a a slow start in her match this morning against Ivayovich and then and then got right and then one way traffic the rest of the match. always, always impressed with Eva. There are still some things like you know, we've we've talked about her, and I think the the fact that the conversation hasn't changed that much is probably a good thing. And then we get into the offseason and we see what what she can do to add a little more to make that make that serve a little.

less attackable. That's where that's where we are.

Torrey (09:55.435)
Sure, sure, sure. And and growth and strength are gonna are gonna factor huge into that. You gotta keep in mind where she's at now, Coco was four years ago. You know what I mean? In terms of age and and level, and dare I say she's tracking at least technically a little faster than Coco was. Now is she a s swift and sleight of foot? Not sure. I kill Coco's a pretty darn good athlete, but to the to your point.

Where she was a year a or or has been over this course of the year is when Coco first kinda came on the scene, you know, year two ish, alm not quite year three ish, as she was, you know, this is post her taking down Venus, post her kind of becoming that becoming the Coco we now know and love. And obviously this is during that, you know, the the Brad Gilbert phase when she was starting to win her first slam at at at the at the US Open. So we're kinda almost coming up on that two, three year

For Eva it's been about a what, about a year? Not quite not quite a year and half. Right.

Alvin Owusu (10:50.517)
Almost almost a year, yeah. She caught fire kind of back end of last year. So it's she's yeah, she's first first go round. Yeah.

Torrey (10:55.409)
Right. So she's not even a full year. Right. First one and to my point. She's a she's coming up on that first rounding of the her first big lap, so to speak, on the WTA. So I think the girl's gonna do she's gonna be great. You know, some of these things do take time and maturation and she's playing against people that are ten years her senior, not just

From a age thing, but from a physical maturity side of things. You know what I mean? And so it's just gonna be her getting stronger, her getting much, much more stable and used to the, you know, the wear and tear of being a WTA pro athlete. So I'm very, very impressed with her game. This was great for her to get this far. Great for Jessica to show that she, being the elder stateswoman here, can knew how to throw some savvy plays in there and kept

it on more or less her terms. And I was really happy to see that as as close as the match was and technically as as as good as Eva is, it was just good to see her, you know, we talked we talked before about her being the litmus test for top five in the world and I I think she remains that to this day.

Alvin Owusu (11:54.701)
Yeah. Yep.

Torrey (11:55.196)
You know, you're gonna have to you're gonna have to go through me to get to understand what it means to be top five in the world. And I think that's you know, whether we're in a losing effort or not, you're just gonna have to understand what that means and good for Jessica, good for Eva to have played that, right? And and certainly good for Jessica to to continue to be that top five standard bearer in the tour. And the fact they're both Americans to me means a lot because she will play her again, she'll practice with her a few more times again. There's there's a there's a you know a nice mentorship opportunity.

there, you know, where you don't necessarily get that per se if they're if they're from another country. So I I it was a win win in that sense that American was gonna go on either way, but more importantly, the the the way in which the younger, you know, start upstart got to this point.

and was defeated was was very honorable and you know she'll be back with the vengeance and, you know, for the Elder Statesman. You just felt like she's gonna continue to to be experienced and go a little further perhaps than even may have. And that's you like seeing that also.

Alvin Owusu (12:56.544)
Yeah, and this is the this is the third time they've played in the last four months or so. Like they played in Dubai, Jess beat her pretty clean. again in Charleston. I think that might have been the semifinals or so of that tournament. And Eva did win a set in that one. I think it was a second set. and so now here again, Eva comes out I wouldn't say she came out to a great start. Both I mean they try were trading breaks back and forth. It was it was not the the prettiest you know, fourth round fourth round matchup, but I I think

Torrey (13:07.493)
Right.

Torrey (13:11.641)
Right.

Torrey (13:15.15)
Right.

Sure. For sure. Sure.

Alvin Owusu (13:26.804)
know, props to Jessica for like getting a hold of the situation, even though she was down a set, she knew that she was not getting getting beaten. She was just not playing like th not playing her best tennis. And it it wasn't like she actually had to get to her best tennis. She I think she finally did back into that I would say front end of the third set. She was she was kinda clicking on all cylinders and showing like all parts of her game once once she started making some serves. Like she just couldn't like she couldn't serve in the first set.

Torrey (13:36.897)
Not not planner not planner content. Sure.

Alvin Owusu (13:54.507)
But yeah, I'm I'm looking forward to this matchup. Pagula Golf. We get it a fair amount. it does happen a fair amount, and they they are fairly even. It's hard to say, you know, one no one's pulling ahead in that one. I think maybe J Pegg might won the last one, but Coco got the last two before that. And this is like I mean it's once or twice a year here and there. so yeah, it it's I

Torrey (14:00.899)
Yeah. Yep.

Torrey (14:09.399)
Right.

Torrey (14:15.927)
Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (14:20.01)
Coming into that match, this is a very interesting for them to be meeting this deep and and Wimbledon. I mean, both women have had kind of their, you know, ups and downs in the event. Jessica, the more what you would say, natural glass grass court player, Coco, you know, her top end is her top end, and when she gets this deep into a tournament like now we're now we're cooking with gas. what what is Coco going to have to do just a little bit better?

Torrey (14:29.326)
Sure.

Alvin Owusu (14:48.084)
if she's going to 'cause I I I think the the thing about being able to go h hot and low with ground strokes, to the forehand, like that's that's Jess all day. so how does from even from a technical standpoint, like how is Coco going to approach that? What does she need to do to like maybe shore up some of those specific low forehand errors?

Torrey (15:09.508)
try not to get too many of them to be honest. I think she can handle it. I mean and I'm and I'm not being facetious there. Serve like she did today, it when she served well, right? Serve bigger. Serve hold serve, right? And come to net more. We forget that she was top of the world in doubles with Katie McNally and and and Des Right f for before she had a lot of success, you know, on on a single side of things. The girl can volley, the girl can return. So to me, to see her continue to

Alvin Owusu (15:26.654)
And just and just, yeah.

Torrey (15:38.323)
Make those first serves, start to hit get the plus ones that she's now getting, which she didn't never used to really get. She's gonna be fine on the return side. And can she continue to come forward, Alvin? That to me is gonna be the big question here. Jess got to net. I was looking at the stats, she got in. Her percentage was seven-four percent of you know points one when she approached the net, but she only came in. I wanna say my numbers here look like fourteen of nineteen, which is a lot. You think about women's tennis in general. Twenty times coming in's a lot. However

I thought it could have been closer to thirty, you know, just from from the tennis I was watching. She could've gotten in easy ten more times. And perhaps that number could have easy more Not making first search, you can't do it, right? But the the first step probably killed that killed all tactics, didn't it? Right. My point is second and obviously when she was playing downhill in the third, but to my point, Coco needs to continue to hold serve herself and really, 'cause she came out of the gate stubborn total, but as well, she was now while she went up, she actually was at

Alvin Owusu (16:10.636)
Well, not making first sir not making first serves in the first set, like kinda made it that was a big big issue. Yeah.

Torrey (16:32.234)
She was very close to getting broken in that first game, and it looked like it was gonna go the other way around. So, bottom line: serve better, continue to put some pressure and get to net. and we keep talking about grass, like you know, again, the the surface hardens up a little bit, gets a little more true of footing, but it's still scratch. There's still dirt and grass back there. It ain't it's a little less slick, but it's still slick. And so to me, to make this to be a a little more of a foot race.

Alvin Owusu (16:49.835)
Yeah.

Torrey (16:57.179)
and to make the points ironically a bit shorter. Not to say not to say she's gonna serve and volley, but to serve serve attacking volley and make Jess be on the wings hitting passes to me. Where now let's say Jess's ground stroke and my ground stroke may be even, Jess has good returns, I've got a good serve. Well what

is my third piece. Well my volleys are probably a little better than Jess's passes, right? And so I've got to get to that matchup if I wanna have the odds in my favor. If I'm now running down Jessica's shots and Jessica can also come in, then that's gonna be tough sledd her because now she's while she's fast enough, the grass is not kind to the on-the-run player, you know, second, third, go run in a in a in a change of direction situation.

Alvin Owusu (17:40.044)
Sure. And you mentioned you mentioned kind of like third step, which I actually want to transition a little bit away from the the impending U USA versus USA matchup here and move into the Sabalinka Osaka match. So Naomi took down took down Arena today. that was that was something. She beat her two and six, broke her broke arena's twenty one twenty one straight twenty one straight tiebreakers and grand slams, won.

Torrey (17:52.752)
Mm.

Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (18:09.295)
And she I mean she smashed that with a hammer in that in that second set tiebreaker. a few weeks ago we did a we did a podcast together and I I I we were talking about what I said was Arena's lack of B game. And I've been thinking about that a lot because it's not very often we we we see B we see we talk about B game in like high level junior tennis a lot.

On the pro tour, it looks a little different. It's not necessarily going to do something else. It is finding another way to either what's that? Another another way to win or hurt. Yeah. So w maybe it's like, okay, obviously Arena is not gonna go, she's not gonna become Carolina Muhova, right? As her b as her B game. But sometimes it feels like if she's not going through you.

Torrey (18:41.118)
Mm-hmm.

To win. Another way to win. Another way to win. Another way to to to match up. Sure. Sure.

Torrey (18:57.478)
Right. Right.

Alvin Owusu (19:03.999)
The ability to hit cruise control and and make balls lockdown style is not something that either she has within her, like and I know she can do it. I think she can. I know she can do it. She's a professional tennis player. But it seems like that's the that's the part where there's a little bit of she seems hard pressed to do it. Like, okay, I'm gonna hold back a little bit here and just try to make some balls. Let me see if that let's see if my my opponent will miss. Is that is that the read? Are you getting the same thing from her?

Torrey (19:13.918)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Torrey (19:25.125)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey (19:30.353)
Yep. I got the exact same read. I got the I got this and I and I get this from a lot of top players in those kind of moments. They they kind of think the moment itself will overwhelm you and they'll just stay solid and w and and kind of you know f as as one of your favorites sayings is finish the drill, you know. They but but they don't finish themselves. And so what I saw in Arena today was

And and it's hard to say this without talking about the catalyst, which was which was Naomi's server, right? But she kept missing so many returns. She never could even get to her A, let alone B game. Ball that ball was moving. I mean, Naomi had sliced body that was curling even after the bounce. She had flats out wide that were bringing up chalk. I mean, she was she was serving so well today. It reminded me of when she played as a texting you during the match.

Alvin Owusu (20:08.244)
Right.

Torrey (20:28.336)
Back when she beat Serena, you know, many, many years ago in the US Open. It I we forget how well she can serve, to your point, when she can s when she serves well, but she has a good serve album. And so I think that completely took Arena out of her game because Arena has great returns. But who doesn't she return well against? Well, big servers, right? And so you almost gotta be a big enough server to be able to even be relevant in those kind of conversations. And that's why I think she's one of the reasons she's been

On the top for so long. And Naomi showed us today, hey, you all forgot that I had to serve. And she served so so well today. I was so happy. So with that said, back to Arena. I don't think Arena's B game, we're not gonna see a lot of it. it isn't often that she gets, you know, kind of bullied around out there. There's only a couple players that can do it, you know what I mean? and you know, she's found we saw more B game from Arena during the Sunshine Double, right?

specifically in in that in her match against Rebecca where she was slicing more, rolling more, drop shotting earlier, getting in a little sooner. She played more, I would s I would call it scat back tennis than she did playing through because she knows that's the kind of tennis that that Alana likes to play. Having said that, I don't think she quite needs to do it as much with other players. They don't present that same threat. Nor do I think that the grass is the type of

surface to, you know, do a whole lot of tinkering. You know, you pretty much gotta see ball, hit ball, and try to get try to get ahead of the point, you know, because it's it there's not there's not I mean, there was so many tough bounces she received, you know, to her to to Naomi's credit. But I think that's the reason why you don't see it as much on grass. And I think that's also the reason why, you know, you're not gonna see Arena do as well on grass as a result, because she doesn't have that extra layer, that extra

Alvin Owusu (21:58.764)
Right. Shoot it yeah. Yeah.

Torrey (22:20.58)
proclivity to bump returns, to slice when she and she has she has all the strokes. Will you see her do it often? Not so much because you're always leading with the same two big shots, right? You're always leading with the big serve and the big return. So, you know, when when you do that, do that pretty well, you know, what's to say, you know, you you drive a you you drive a Ford Raptor, you know, you're not gonna you're not gonna pull out the the the Prius, you know what I mean, from time to time. Just just to just to just for gas money, I mean so to speak. I'm just saying I I don't see her changing that any time soon.

Alvin Owusu (22:42.943)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey (22:50.819)
Perhaps to her detriment, perhaps her a game's just that good.

Alvin Owusu (22:54.431)
Yeah, I mean that at it's probably her A game is that good. That's like we're talking about it it took a fantastic serving performance that was that trumped a pretty good serving performance. Like Arena hit five aces, one double fault, like Naomi hit eight aces and one double fault. And I mean, go back to their their matchup, was it Madrid? where Naomi got the first set and then just could not keep her medal and hold on. Like i Arena Right, right. And

Torrey (23:20.48)
Right. Could couldn't couldn't keep up that level, could she? Yeah. For that for that for the lengt for the length of that match.

Alvin Owusu (23:25.843)
Right. And I think their matchup at Rolling Garris, I think it was probably nip and tuck up until like maybe f four or five five all in the second first set and then and then Arena shot out. But in this one here, Naomi look, I mean, Naomi's been playing fantastic tennis for the last three weeks or so. she has it's like you don't really know how to you don't get comfortable on grass and you don't really play well on grass like until you do. And then when you do, like hell, Richard Krychak like just went from like hating grass to

Torrey (23:56.535)
Well it's

Alvin Owusu (23:56.636)
One one Wimbledon, right? Ego went from being shaky on grass to winning Wimbledon. It sometimes it just ha it just happens, right? And I'm not gonna go that far out and I mean it's not a far limb to go

Torrey (24:01.025)
Welling one. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey (24:07.445)
Yannex Center l last year. I I thought did something similar. He was slip sliding away at on the grass until he kind of figured out how to slide on it. And before you know it, boom, he's routine in Carlos in in in the Wimby final. So I mean I know I know what you mean.

Alvin Owusu (24:18.567)
Yeah. I mean it's not a I don't want to go out on a limb and I it's not a limb, right? I mean Naomi Masaka, like, same as Arena Sablanka has won four grand slams, right? So she knows she knows how to f how to finish in week two. So like could she could she win this tournament? Like I mean her and she's plays Mohova in the next round. That one's kinda gone they've played some tough matches and they're both playing well right now.

Torrey (24:27.445)
Right.

Torrey (24:42.942)
Yeah. Sure.

Alvin Owusu (24:44.923)
so that will like I mean this this top half of the women's draw is a joke right now. It is so much fun. Like it is so, so much fun. If you you've got Pagula golf in the next round and you got, you know, Osaka and Mujova playing against each other. It's like let's I mean, let's get to the business. This is gonna be this is gonna be a lot of fun. It's gonna be a lot of fun. almost even, you know, another segue into the the Muhova Kritik of a match, check corner, check down.

Torrey (24:49.032)
Yeah. Yep.

Torrey (25:00.64)
comes from the tennis. It's got to be some great tennis. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (25:11.653)
I all it's like all my favorite tennis players are Czech. Like one of my well like one of my OG favorites is like Petra Kavinova. I just i it's they yeah, it that my my kinds of tennis players. I I love the way they play. Mohova is I was listening to an interview with Ivan Lubacich and they were asking him like who's your favorite tennis player? And I think he said Ed Berg. And and then like and then the I think it was Craig Shapiro was it was on Craig's pod.

Torrey (25:11.826)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's true.

Alvin Owusu (25:39.517)
And he's like, who's your favorite women's tennis player? And I'm like, he's gonna say Mohoba because every guy, every guy says Carolina Mohoba is every guy's favorite tennis player. Like it's it's I I I want to say I don't know what it is, but I know exactly what it is. Like when she like she does all the things that we wish she plays tennis the way that we play tennis in our heads. Like that's that's what it is. That's what it is. and today she

Torrey (25:48.189)
Right. Right. Sure.

Torrey (25:56.852)
Yep.

Torrey (26:00.563)
Yep. That's true. That's true. Yeah. She's she's as she's as close to a throwback as Justine was back in the day, you know what mean? as far as just minus the one eight, but I I'm I'm right there with you. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (26:12.586)
But a little sm a little smooth like Justine was a little a little a little grittier and Carolina's a little sorry multiple grand slams of grittier. and Carolina's just like Carolina's like a like a female version of Fed, but with two hands. It's like smooth, like it looks effortless. yeah. But her to match today, like she she came out with the hammer, like tight first set, got up big in the second set.

Torrey (26:14.877)
Smoother.

I would say a lot grittier, but yeah. Thank you. A lot gritty.

A hundred percent. Keep loats out there.

Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (26:39.262)
Got a little wiggly and then, you know, wasn't able to close out that set. you know, Barbora's p Grand Slam Pedigree at definitely showed up. She's not gonna go away, right? And then but very similar to Felix's match, like, okay, I I I lost some opportunities, come back in the final set, pedal right back to the medal, got the job done. I it's a it's a I'm so happy that she's doing well in this tournament, like the tournament that she is we've all you just assume.

Torrey (26:48.445)
Right.

Torrey (26:56.562)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey (27:05.108)
Sure. Sure.

Alvin Owusu (27:08.402)
She's gonna be good on grass and do well at Wimbledon, but she often does not. But but today she is. This year she's been playing fantastic. She's won a Masters 1000.

Torrey (27:12.241)
Right.

Torrey (27:18.032)
Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (27:20.156)
I don't know what happens on Tuesday, but I'm excited. It's gonna be it's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. when you're looking at the way the two women are playing right now, what do you think? Kinda I'm gonna go like maybe this is like NFL style. What are the keys to victory, Tori Hawkins, for each player?

Torrey (27:23.418)
Which you're glad to be there. Yeah. Yep.

Torrey (27:39.042)
We're talking about for Mohova and up a nail me.

Alvin Owusu (27:41.363)
Osaka.

Torrey (27:46.64)
Man, you know, they both play pretty well today. We'll see which one of them can come out and play as well when they play in a few days. I said it before with with with similar to to Coco. Can Naomi serve as well today? I clearly in the matchup with Babs it was gonna be you know, you know how fast and how swift around the court that Mohova is, right? Obviously, Naomi is

much swifter than than Babs. And so you're gonna have that to deal with. I really feel like the match, and this is sound this will sound, you know, it's not meant to sound condescending at all. The match will be on Naomi's racket. I think if Naomi serves well and returns well, I think Carolina will do a lot to try to keep it close, to do some changeups and do some things that she that she knows how to do well. She'll defend well, she'll attack well, she'll get that little slice down there.

I don't I don't think that she has enough to hurt Naomi with, assuming the top-notch Naomi shows up. Now, should the top notch Naomi not show up, this is anybody's match. I mean, this is a hundred percent anybody's match. And the and and just just because we know of Naomi has her own ups and downs, you know what I mean? So that that is well established. So

To me, it's gonna be which Naomi shows up. And if that Naomi shows up, we're in for a treat, and she's she could keep that level up all the way from here to the final. If she does not, this will this will be an absolute it'll have some it'll be ugly at times, it'll be it'll be some great points at times, and it'll just be a whole lot of cardiac arrest at the end of the whole thing because both players have that ability to play so clean and so smooth.

And yet mentally sometimes not always can stay the course. And that's what gives you some of these cliffhangers emotionally a little bit and and they themselves. And so that's what I'm curious to see is which Naomi shows up. Because I don't think Carolina plays well, she can stub her toe from time to time, like anybody can. Her level doesn't necessarily drop. She can have a flurry of errors here and there off first her percentage and missing some easy step ups, but she usually is pretty consistent with her window. Naomi's window is much larger.

Torrey (30:10.913)
and well heck you saw it today. I mean, few people can just take the racket out of Arena's hand, right? And heretofore I didn't necessarily think that Naomi two point still had that kind of firepower and movement. And yet here we are. So just saying Alvin I the the match to me will go will go through Naomi.


Alvin Owusu (36:33.375)
That's a that's a that's a good point. I think I think it it's almost maybe I'm not t to oversimplify it, but it's like whoever can get on the front foot first, I think what you said about Naomi runs runs true, right? Like if she serves well, she can get on top of the ball, like she can she can overwhelm or or dictate to Carolina. But I also think

Torrey (36:36.901)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I'm ready to read them.

Alvin Owusu (37:03.079)
Especially if Naomi does not serve well, that Carolina has been she's been coming through the ball a lot more this tournament. I know she started working with I think it's Sven Grunfeld. and they've kind of like not said cleaned up her game, but like you're seeing less of the a lot less bailout, a lot less trying to dictate with the slice and being able to, you know, use it in ways that are a little more

Torrey (37:10.915)
Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (37:30.256)
She won't miss in neutral or defensive positions, but she is playing more of a true, you know, hit through the court A game. I say that to say sh I think she can she can put Naomi on the back foot. It's just but it's gonna come down to that like that that first turf percentage and who gets a hold of those points who gets a hold of those points earlier.

Torrey (37:43.557)
yeah.

Torrey (37:49.263)
For and and can both of them play as well as they played today, right? I looked at I only saw some of the highlights, but I wanna say she had nine aces, Alvin, which is, you know, that's almost unheard of in women's tennis in terms of especially from a from a Mohova type. And I think she had something like fifty winners to like twenty four for for Babs. And so when whenever you double, I mean that you know how rare that is? To get fifty to twenty four on the winners? I mean, that's that's out that's insane. So it just shows you how much she's hitting through the court and playing, you know, what I call playing

you know, downhill, she was literally dictating play. And so that said, both of them served well today, obviously. Both of them hit well today. Will they both play as well in a day or two when when that when when they lace them up again? So that's that to me is really where this thing kinda comes down because, you know, can can that repeat performance be just as clean?

Alvin Owusu (38:39.251)
Yeah, and I'm starting to see it's it's in this it's fun for the fans. It's fun for us, right? Because what happens when both players show up, we get we get really, really good matches. We've gotten fantastic matches in the last I would say f two rounds, the last two rounds have been great. They've been great. So, if both ladies show up, we're in for we're in for another one. don't wanna ramble on. I what I do wanna do is make sure that we give a little a little shout out to to one Felix Oj Aliasim.

Torrey (38:46.657)
Right.

Torrey (38:55.723)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (39:09.341)
The three seed, like marching through the draw. He's just

Torrey (39:11.742)
I he did he did a heck of a job and I really I have to say for whatever it was and it wasn't the three to five minutes between his words with Alejandro at the net and his interview was absolutely priceless. I mean whatever he said stays between him and Alejandro, you know what I mean? Because when he got to that interview, it was behind him.

It was all smiles. I mean, it was a hundred percent jovial and I I I just I was really I really liked how how that finished up. You know what I mean? And you know, and and I and I don't think that, you know, it's easy to say in the moment that, you know, that Alejandro may have been, you know, faking an injury this and I he literally looked like he was writhing in pain to me. And I just that I just think that it just kinda wore off. It wasn't it wasn't a true injury as much as it was

Alvin Owusu (40:03.133)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (40:07.966)
It was scare. It was a scare. Yeah, the way the way the foot the foot extended like that. It's a that's that will that'll flare you up, but if it's probably yeah.

Torrey (40:08.978)
It was a little bit of a scare. He tweaked it, right? So right. Right. For sure. And and and then and then once it calmed down, he was fine. And so and and I think, you know, there's also just a just a just a small ounce in there of of Felix missing some easy shots, right? A as he's been apt to do. So I think that's the other part of it is is, you know, kid be me. It had to be Dalich Bikina, you know, messing with me mentally. I was fine, you know, but in reality.

It was really good to see FAA play such a stellar fit set. mind you, some of us would say, some would say a needless fit set. But a fit set all the same, and he was in the driver's seat for the 90%. I don't think didn't Davidish Viking finally get a game or two at the end? Like didn't he finally get get that that that pr that pride game in five so in the fifth? So it just shows you how well he was playing. And and I will say that about Felix. He has always been, you know, not always

Alvin Owusu (40:54.654)
Five I think at I think is it five yeah.

Torrey (41:05.681)
He's always had the tendency not to close the deal, but now he's closing that deal where bef where years ago that would be that match could go either way. You know, he just and I'm really liking that about this this resurgent Felix. He's confident in what he's doing, he's staying the course, and he's not even when he's failing to close the door, which is which sat which is which is tennis, right? You fail to close the door, you know, he's really he's not down on Felix. and he's well, he's always been a little stoic during his matches. He's been

He's had the belief that you haven't always seen. And it looks like he's enjoying them out there. He looks like he's enjoying playing tennis in those tough matchups. And I say the same thing that I've said about Sasha's for years. You always knew he was going to work hard enough. And he's a phenomenal talent.

But you didn't always know that he enjoyed the stage. And now it seems that he enjoys the stage, Alvin. And it seems like he's he even made a comment in that in that interview on court. He was going for a ball smile, like, this is crazy. This is a crazy point. You don't get to that level unless you're literally enjoying the moment. You know, a lot of players endure that moment.

o very few in enjoy enjoy the stage and and enjoy putting on a show. And it looked like today he he was he he caught a glimpse of that and realized he was part of the entertainment, you know what I mean? Not necessarily the gladiator, you know, as he may often put himself in.

Alvin Owusu (42:27.708)
Yeah, and no, he's the he is the poster child, right? Like he's the golden boy. He's the he always like that that post match interview, that is that is Felix O'J Elliott seem. Like he is the one you want he's the one you want to bring home to meet mom, right? He is he's that that is him. Yeah, and so you know, that I expect out of him. What I see from him right now is a like you mentioned, that confidence. Like I think that US Open semifinal run did a lot to him. I think it changed him and then he and he he finished the year out strong.

Torrey (42:30.258)
Yep.

Torrey (42:39.685)
It's true.

Torrey (42:50.076)
Right. Yep. yeah.

Alvin Owusu (42:55.571)
you know, a little bumpy about showing up and with some with some I think he was sick or something like that in the first round. But like regardless, like he's gotten to a point now where he's like he's he's carrying himself like the number three seed in this tournament. Like he's his court presence says like I expect to win this match. I'm I I expected I always expected to be in this round. Like when I look when the jaw came out, I expected it to be me and Novak in this position and here we are. And I don't know I don't know how much further we go from here, but

Torrey (43:00.753)
Yeah.

Torrey (43:11.055)
Right. That's right.

Right.

Torrey (43:18.788)
Right. Right.

Yeah. But but you feel better about him playing a Novak at this kind of a moment, you know what I mean? And Novak is gonna of course he trumps everybody, you know, experience wise, but you feel like I would have and and I hate to look at it this way, I but I do when I look at it pragmatically, I he has a much, much better chance of dethroning

the twenty-four-time Grand Slam champ than Adobe Sfina. And and that and that being said, just because of the ways he can hurt him, just because of the ways he won't break down. And and Alejandro played great today. I mean, I felt bad for him at some points because it looked like regardless of his best, Felix was just still, you know, was was just still had an answer for something. And even obviously, you know, with the with with the ankle and or whatever Achilles tendon, whatever it was that he that he kind of strained.

on that long slide. I mean he god he played well. I mean he was absolutely redlining with some foreheads just tagging the ball. But I really felt like, you know, again, Felix Felix played very, very solid like a three seat should. And I'm look I'm looking forward to that match with Novak. It's I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do, you know, because this is not, you know, th this is the last kind of last roundup for a lot players trying to knock their belt with the with the Novak win. I mean, you know, this is not a

You know, the guy's still playing top five in the world tennis right now. So it's not like, Yeah, I beat Novak, but he was terrible then. No, no, no, no, no. Novak is still darn good and you know, it'd be a great match to see Felix, you know, kinda, you know, knocks the belt, so to speak.

Alvin Owusu (44:58.995)
Yeah, and even even less let's let's dig into that a little bit further. Like it's like people are starting to notch their belt with Novak victories, but like let's circle like in Grand Slams. And in Grand Slams, that's still really hard. Right. Last what was last year he lost he lost to Feli I mean he lost to the center and Carlos, that's it. And then this year he lost to Carlos and then it it took Inferno Fonseca to it to deep in the fifth set to to take him out. So

Torrey (45:09.356)
Right.

buddy.

Torrey (45:22.263)
Inferno yeah, hundred percent. Yeah. He had an out of body experience that

Alvin Owusu (45:28.316)
And that was just a good match. Right. Yeah. So, and also a couple of body blows earlier in the tournament, which is going to happen. But right now, like he's he's managing well. Novak's managing well. He did drop a set to to Roman today. but you know playing four sets on grass is not playing four sets on clay, right? It it does not tax you in the same way. I I'm there's a certain level of safety

Torrey (45:47.095)
Right. Right.

Alvin Owusu (45:55.164)
Or at least comfort that I'm starting to see with Felix. And I'm I I I feel like it's I don't wanna say it's, you know, it's magical rackets or anything, but he did switch rackets from he played with that VS Tor forever. I think I have I got an old one. I got I got Felix's old stick here, the VS Tor. and he switched over to the Pure Arrow ninety eight, right? And it's like it's given him I mean, he's always been a a fantastic ball striker, right? But it feels like

Torrey (46:04.077)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey (46:12.407)
Yeah.

Torrey (46:19.064)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (46:25.67)
It's giving him a little more wiggle room on the backhand that's allowing him to let it go a little more. he doesn't look as tight on it. and that was one of the things we hearkened back to, I think, in the, you know, Q four of last year somewhere. Like that backhand does start to it starts to sit up and then and then people can then drive him line on it. that's gonna be a problem, against Novak. Can he keep himself out of those scenarios? I think is going to be

Torrey (46:31.991)
Right.

Torrey (46:42.037)
Yep. Right.

Torrey (46:49.291)
Yep. No doubt.

Alvin Owusu (46:52.882)
He's gonna have to go after Novak. Like he gotta go like kinda like s like Roman did today. Gotta go through him.

Torrey (46:56.991)
That's right. Go through change direction early, go line, get in. You know what I mean? And and and and stick volleys and you know, not even necessarily stick, shorten volleys, you know what I mean? And and and and again, Romans done it all tournament, you even through the quality. So I was he showed a game plan while he doesn't necessarily have all the goods to do it against the Novak.

he certainly showed how to do it, you know, in in that match today. And I just I give Roman a heck of a turn by the way. We got we can't say enough from Mr. Saful and he played a phenomenal turn. Probably the best I haven't seen his whole career, but probably the best I remember him playing, to my to my knowledge ever.

and it's certainly this deep and into a slam, while he's certainly not qualities, you know, usually, but he certainly went well above and beyond his his pay grade, so to speak, this tournament. And so and and played a respectful match against Novak.

Alvin Owusu (47:50.291)
Yep. Yep. Agreed. I think I think that's good for today. We don't need to go on. I think we we saw some good stuff. That was a fun day. Wanted to talk to you about it. so we might come back again tomorrow. Maybe not, we'll see. but let's put a pen in it. I'm Alvin. That's Tori. Let's see it let's see what the tennis does to us. Let's see, but I mean but USA's also playing tomorrow night in the World Cup, so we'll we shall see. but yeah, I'm Alvin. I'm Alvin, that's Tori, that's three, we're out.

Torrey (47:54.731)
No. No.

Torrey (47:59.115)
Yeah.

Torrey (48:04.597)
We'll see. We'll see if the tennis brings us back, you know what mean?

Exactly.

Torrey (48:13.843)
Right. Big big deal there.