Sabalenka’s Standard, Iga’s Reset, and the WTA Separation Test in Paris

Aryna Sabalenka remains the defining force in women’s tennis, but Roland Garros may be the clearest test yet of whether her separation from the field is beginning to narrow. Alvin and Bob start with the demands of clay-court tennis — movement, patience, problem-solving, and point construction — before turning to Sabalenka’s recent results, lower-back concern, and long-term place at the top of the WTA.

The central question is not whether Sabalenka is still elite. She clearly is. The question is whether the combination of physical strain, age curves, and a deeper group of challengers makes Paris feel less like a coronation and more like a stress test.

The episode also takes a close look at Iga Swiatek’s tactical crossroads. Alvin and Bob discuss why Iga may need to stop trying to match the bigger hitters at their own game and return to a more patient, high-margin clay identity built around movement, spin, and point construction. From there, they widen the lens to Rybakina, Coco Gauff, Pegula, Muchova, Ostapenko, Zheng, Kostyuk, Andreeva, Potapova, and the depth that makes the women’s draw especially compelling.

Transcript

Alvin Owusu (00:05.264)
And welcome to another episode of the best three podcasts I'm Alan and we are joined today by my buddy Bob Bob, how are you doing, man?

Bob Murray (00:14.924)
Wonderful Alvin. Thank you for having me played some tennis before Hopping on with you and yeah pleasure to be here and talking tennis

Alvin Owusu (00:23.94)
Yeah, it's good. I'm glad you're here. And kind of on today's episode, it's going to be a little free will and we're going to talk a lot about the what's going on the women's side of the game. I feel like we've been a little heavy on the ATP side over the last few weeks. And, you know, it's been I think it's been well earned by Mr. Center. He's been on a he's been on a rager lately, but and he's still I mean, he's still raging right now. He's in he's in Rome. He's he's he is conquering Rome right now as we speak.

But we're gonna take a little turn and we're gonna kinda take a look at what's been going on on the women's side and how this kind of, what we've seen over the last few weeks and how that kinda sharpens our perspectives on what we've got in front of us as Roland Garros is just around the corner. And so Bob, before we hit the old magic red button, you were telling me that you play a lot on clay and.

Rolling Gares is your favorite tournament to watch.

Bob Murray (01:24.749)
Absolutely, the point construction the the variety you have to have the the fitness Being able to handle high balls low balls You have to be able to effectively slice Do you just see so much that you don't necessarily see on a hardcore or grass court where you know, you know hardcore you can just hit through someone you can't do that on clay it forces you to construct points and really

work through and find solutions to a lot of different problems that you don't necessarily have on hard courts or in grass is a whole other story. But for my viewing, I'd watch clay all day. I'm always sad to. When Roland Garris is over, fortunately there's some other stuff, but got to wait till next year till the clay season comes around.

Alvin Owusu (02:15.277)
Yeah, I'm with you. Like it's kind of like the best time of year is like once we we finish off kind of the the the sunshine double and then like, yeah, you come back the next week and two weeks later and we're we're Monte Carlo, right? You've got the you the red clay with the blue blue sea in the background. It's and not only is it visually appealing to me, but I'm right there with you. I've been very adamant about it on this podcast. Like the things I think clay court.

is the palette that allows us to have the most full expression of tennis and what tennis is and can be and should be, right? It's not only physical, but it's extremely mental. You can't just serve your way through someone. You can't just hit your way through someone, I mean, unless you're Yannick Center, right? But you have to construct points. have to work with balls being run down. You're preaching to the choir, it's my jam.

And so as we are kind of getting towards the, we'll call it the business end of this clay court swing. On the women's side, you and I were texting last week about a few things, but one, Irina Sabalinka popped up as a point of conversation and I'm not an alarmist, right? She lost early in Rome. She lost...

earlier than normal in Madrid, right? So before I get into my own nonsense here, you worried about Irina? Are you seeing things with her that are making you, I'm not gonna say, just question where she is going into Roland Garros, but yeah, let's actually, let's start there. Let's start there.

Bob Murray (04:04.278)
I think it's totally health related. If her back's fine, if she's feeling good, I don't worry about her bringing it. I think this is, if she can sort out whatever issues she was having in that, so stay a match, then I know she's gonna be at least to the semis. Look, someone can pick her off, but she's so good, she's so consistent. I just hope it's not a serious situation. Look, I didn't.

I haven't read too much into specifically what the issue was, but I understand it was a lower back, look, hopefully that's just something that she deals with and she can sort out. no, I am not worried about it. Yeah, she had some tough, she had a tough two tournaments, but she's been so good all year and so consistent. I'm confident she'll be able to find it.

Alvin Owusu (04:56.441)
And I think that's the prudent way to look at it, right? She has banked up a lot of data points that should tell us we don't need to be worrying about Irina Sabalinka. And I'm gonna take it on, let's just take it on good faith that she will be fine. This tournament ends, hell, end of next week, and then she still has another few days to get ready for Roland Garros. It might be 10 days or so between matches, right? So she should be, let's assume she's fine.

Right? She is the odds on she is the betting favorite going into the tournament. But I have this.

Alvin Owusu (05:35.792)
Okay, she is, I don't wanna, I'm not gonna knock her, right? It's not a knock, it's just a, at some point, everything that goes up must come down, right? This is how I feel. And I also feel like professional players have some, what I like to call a three year peak, right? By the time you get to your highest career ranking, right, that you can kind of be around that space for about three years.

And then all things that come up must come down. There's nothing with Arena's game that says she is falling off. Nothing, nothing there. She's hitting the ball as well as ever. She's playing as well as ever. She won the US Open, Final Australian Open, Sunshine Slam. Like she's doing things. But at some point, we should start to expect someone to usurp her, right?

Bob Murray (06:36.904)
into a unit.

Alvin Owusu (06:37.071)
What does the beginning of that look like? What does the beginning of that look like? Does it look like this? Could it look like this? What would it look like?

Bob Murray (06:48.425)
Look, if it's a serious injury, it could be an injury. think just watching her, I think she, and look, obviously we only see certain things, what she puts out on TikTok, Instagram, all those, but she seems like she's got good people around her. She seems like she's got good perspective, does things outside of tennis that make her happy. I think it's about, I think, I worry about someone when they,

have some injuries, start having bad results, and then you start not necessarily loving, putting the work in that you have to do to remain at that level. And I'm not worried about that with her at this point. I think she's so hungry and she wants to set records that, granted they're so far out there, it's on men and women's side, but still, I think she's double digit.

at the end of her career, I would be very surprised if she doesn't have that many majors. And I'm not alarmed at all by this at this point, but I hear what you're saying. I just don't see her losing step right now. I see her getting stronger, playing smarter, adding things to her game. I mean, the only person that I take if they're playing their best against her is Rabakana. Rabakana is the only person that I say,

give me their best, that's the only person in the world that I take over her right now.

Alvin Owusu (08:18.37)
That's fair, that's fair. The point about the double digit majors, Even my usual co-host, Tory, feels like, and he said this many times, that Irina Savalinka is the present day version of Serena Williams. on the court, you see it, right? There's the presence, the brute power, like.

Bob Murray (08:38.206)
there.

Alvin Owusu (08:46.83)
the fierceness, it's all there, it's all there. Except for when you, I'm gonna give you kind of two numbers to hold at the same time, right? Irina Sabalenka has, I'm gonna say only, only won four Grand Slaves. And Irina Sabalenka is 28 years old.

Bob Murray (08:55.463)
Okay.

Bob Murray (09:01.971)
Okay.

Bob Murray (09:08.124)
Okay, I hear you.

Alvin Owusu (09:09.218)
Yeah. Yes. She is, she is at the top of the women's game, but she is also one of the older women in the top 10 as well. I Jessica, Jessica's a little bit older than her. think Svetolina is in the top 10 right now. She's a little bit older than her, but when you're talking about the top of the mountain, like Rebecca is a good four years, think two years, she's two years, two years younger than Irina and Ega is four years younger than Irina and

Coco is six years younger than Arena. So when you start talking about these players who are either in their primes like Rebacchina or probably nearing their primes on paper, right? I mean, obviously Ega's done a lot up to this point, but she is only 24 years old. So when they say like women's tennis 24 to 28 is kind of the window, like Ega's technically just getting there with six lands in the bag and Coco.

is two years away from that with two slams in the bag. Like we rolled this forward a couple years. He could smack in the prime and Arena is 30. Right now we're at.

Bob Murray (10:21.001)
And maybe you can give me some stats on this because I don't know. I should know this. Who are the most recent women to have won slams in their 30s? Did Kleister's do it?

Alvin Owusu (10:34.048)
the top of my head. know know Serena won.

Bob Murray (10:38.542)
Serena got at least, at least it got a few I think, but I don't know how many.

Alvin Owusu (10:43.438)
Yeah, so maybe Kleister's did Venus pop one at 30. That's an interesting factoid.

Bob Murray (10:52.296)
I don't know because I can think of a lot more of the men because we just had the big three come through. Murray, he won his in, he never won in his 30s, did he?

Alvin Owusu (11:08.268)
one of those Wimbledon's that he went in his 30s.

Bob Murray (11:11.174)
2017 2017 was the no 16 was it 16 or 17 to be won that one was third 2013 in 2016 I think

Alvin Owusu (11:18.638)
I think you're right, I think it was 16. So he was a little bit close. God, he would have been close. He might be 87, I might have been 29. He might have been 29. But anyways, modern women's tennis, yeah, that's the thing. That's the thing. And Rina's been with us for a really, really long time. She hit the top 10 in 2020, and she was 22 years old. So then she hit.

Bob Murray (11:20.487)
It was 16, yeah.

Bob Murray (11:26.62)
Okay.

Bob Murray (11:30.888)
But I didn't realize she was that old.

Alvin Owusu (11:46.063)
two in the world in 21 and then she's kind of been in that two one save for some fall off points a couple years like the year after but like she was chasing Ega for three years and then she caught Ega and then she's been number one in the world since 2024. But that's almost three years running now and I feel like if it's going to end, when it ends it will start to be breadcrumbish.

Like it is something like a little, niggle, like it's a niggle first and then you listen practice time and then it's a little, you're not, now maybe you're not getting matches in and she's already playing a very lean schedule to begin with. So that's the, I'm not predicting the fall of Irving Nisabelink or anything, I'm just saying like.

Bob Murray (12:32.058)
No, and you know, she does have a very like violent game. Just her strokes, her putting her body into it. You always worry when you see that because certain people just have a flow to the way they move like Federer, like Mukava. know, certain of these people that are so smooth with everything they do, although Mukava, has her injury issues as well. But you know, there's

The way I feel like things can go, like you said, things can go wrong, just backs something else when you're putting that much of your body into it every time. Whereas a Rabacana, I don't think I've ever seen someone swing so, have such graceful power, doesn't even look like she's a lot of racket head speed through it and it just comes off in flat out winter. It's, you know, it's.

It's a different ball they hit. But once again, all of these people are having, all of these players are having injury issues. I mean, this could happen to anyone at any time, Alvin. I mean, we've heard enough talk about scheduling and things like that. I don't have a solution to it, but it's always there. I'm not gonna worry about this for her. And I'm hopeful that when she gets to Paris, she's gonna be ready to go and put on a show there.

Alvin Owusu (13:58.712)
Okay, that's fair. I think that's the right way to look at it. It would be really cool if we were coming out of Roland Garros and Arena Sabalinka has won the French Open and she's going into London trying to complete the career slam. Wouldn't that be cool? That'd be great. I want what's best for tennis and I think that would be great for tennis. outside of, let's take Arena aside.

Yeah, let's take a read on this side. Where are you on the EGA side of things? We did not discuss this earlier, but...

Bob Murray (14:37.83)
I have a lot of, she's not one of my favorite people, players to watch. I have a lot of respect for her. I love her footwork. I love how dialed in and focused she is. I find her hard to relate to. not that, know, certain players just let you in a little bit more and she,

Bob Murray (15:09.894)
She doesn't seem like someone you want to hang out with as much as some of these other players and just vibe in watching. So I like her, I like watching her, but I typically am rooting for someone else to beat her. I was so impressed with her run, but I haven't been loving watching her. She doesn't look like she's enjoying herself out there. I don't like watching someone struggle with that.

on the court and that's been, you know, so that's kind of where I feel, where I stand with her. You know, and clearly there's a lot of pressure on her kind of dropping off from number one in the world, winning everything to coaching change and all these things. But I think for, and once again, never made it to any high level at any of this, but to do well in anything you need to be enjoying it.

If you're not enjoying it, you're gonna stop being able to put in the work that you need to stay at the level that you're at. And I think that's always such a, that's the struggle is, and why so many people retire because at a certain point, the amount of work they need to just maintain becomes more than they're willing to do anymore.

Alvin Owusu (16:32.523)
Yeah, I, know, Ega, I'm a, I'm not gonna say she's my most favorite player to watch, but I feel there's a human, there's a human level to it where like, I can tell that she is right now in her career in a very conflicted, a conflicted place. And we talk about the drop off of Ega Sviatek, but like, she went from one in the world to two in the world to three in the world. Like we haven't,

And this is all like, know, Ega hit the, she hit the stage like big time in what was it? 2020. She won her first Roland Garrison 2020. And so.

Bob Murray (17:12.709)
Was that our first one, that October roll gear us?

Alvin Owusu (17:15.757)
the October roll in girls and then didn't win it the year after and then I think she went, I think she won it the next three in a row or something like that.

Bob Murray (17:24.774)
Yeah, because then Krijic could be one at the next year. then it was, okay, then she, yes, okay, right.

Alvin Owusu (17:27.617)
Yep. And then she, and then she got three. And so like, but we talking about, won her, she won her first slam at 18 years old, hit world number one at 20. And this is, this is before there was a little bit of a softness in the top of the women's game. this is like, this is like right after, is it right after Barty maybe, but like, but before. There's like right after Barty, maybe right after Naomi.

Maybe before Barney, but there was a bit of a, there was some space there before these heavyweight women came in, came back in anyways, these women pushing six foot tall, hitting the piss out of the forehands and the serves. And I think, we've talked about this before where that her particular game style is just not going to allow her to get back to the top of the women's game. I believe that we are going to see a second verse.

Bob Murray (18:05.007)
Totally.

Alvin Owusu (18:26.477)
of EGOSFUATEC. I think we're going to see it coming. I think it's coming now.

Bob Murray (18:33.125)
What do you think she needs to improve on to be able to start getting the better of these bigger hitters who have started besting her more recently in the past two years or so?

Alvin Owusu (18:47.585)
I think she's gonna have to come to a realization that it's not gonna, she's not gonna be able to win the way she won prior, right? She was heavy spin, obviously fantastic footwork like you mentioned, which allowed her to play close to the baseline, which allowed her to kind of, for not having a ball that jams you through the court, she was able to use that great preparation to get people out of position.

Now the game has evolved enough in just the last five years that her second serves become an extreme liability against these big hitters. and I feel like she can't do what she was doing prior, so she's, but she's still a very smartish tennis player. Like once you've won, you can figure out how to win again. And I say smartish because she, she is not the most cerebral on court.

She kind of bangs her head into a wall lot. But I think that's the part of the, like we talked about before we got on, like people don't really start maturing into their adult versions of their games until mid-20s. She's mid-20s now. So.

Bob Murray (19:59.552)
You know, Alvin, I'm gonna disagree with you here and I hope I'm wrong here. But what I've seen since her, you know, I say relative decline, I feel like she's pulling the trigger in spots that are unnecessary for her to be going for so big. And she can miss by huge margins on these topspin forehands and doing this where it's like,

I think she needs to settle in, know that she can get every ball, rip the topspin. I think one of the best parts of her baseline game is she's able to hold both the forehand and the backhand in a way where you don't know if she's going line or cross till the last second, and then she can pull it. And so you're forced to hold your positioning in the middle. she can, on either side, backhand too, she can go inside out with her backhand and pull it away from you.

Alvin Owusu (20:46.327)
Mm-hmm.

Bob Murray (20:58.558)
or pull it across and she takes those little adjustment steps and goes. I'm seeing her from way deeper in the court, almost try to do like what a Rivacca or Sabalanka can do that she just, that's just not, she doesn't have that same stroke in or effortless power that they do. And it can turn into crazy shanks where she's flying the ball and doing other things. I think the serve will marginally improve. think you got, you

The more, I mean, free points on your serve, that's how you hold serve more often than that's how you win tennis matches. She's always gonna, I think, get a good percentage of breaks. I think she's a great returner. But you gotta start holding serve more regularly or more easily. And like you said, second serve, how much can you do to really beef off that serve when you're, what is she, five? Is she five eight or five seven?

Alvin Owusu (21:56.077)
5-8, yeah 5-9 somewhere in there maybe. Like yeah.

Bob Murray (21:58.292)
Okay, okay. That's where I don't know what spots she can now get an edge over some of those players that are now kind of really coming into their own. But look, I would love to see her prove me wrong at Roland Garris. I would love to see her be comfortable in her own skin and really own her strategy, own her game plan, and do what got her through.

four titles there in the first place. Because that's not the same tennis I've been seeing her play when she's been, you know, granted, let's just throw out Madrid. That doesn't count. That's illness related. And she's still around right now, but that's what I'd like to see from her personally.

Alvin Owusu (22:44.212)
No, I'm with you right there and I think you're actually taking your... I agree with what you're saying and my point is from now, my position is from now going forward, right? Like I feel like the last two years of Iga have been exactly what you've been talking about. She has been caught between game styles and she's trying to play like the women that have passed her in the rankings effectively. Like she's trying to play like Arena, she's trying to play like Elena, but she's four inches taller than both, mean smaller than both of them.

the angles aren't gonna work out. She can't play that kind of tennis, especially against those kinds of women. I think bringing in the, let's just take the Rafa camp and live in it, right? Let's live in this point construction world. Not only is Francisco Roy again on the bag, right? You see her on the practice court with Rafa. I can only live in a world in where,

Rafa is telling her things that sound exactly like what you're talking about and it's not gonna be Let's let's smack four hands and try to win the points quickly. Like she's a fantastic mover She has a ball that can that can wear players down over time if she gives herself the time to do it I mean she should almost take a book out of I think Coco's play I mean take a play out of Coco's book and just Let people miss Just let them miss

Bob Murray (24:09.153)
100%.

Alvin Owusu (24:10.745)
Just let him miss. Like, just, like, just let him miss. See what happens.

Bob Murray (24:16.811)
I mean, I'm so much a big believer of playing with high margin to the center of the court. Don't give angles, wait till they do it. Like make them put the ball past you when you're as quick as she is and you have her retrieving skills and ability to attack out of the corners as well. I mean, why are you ever trying to force points before you need to? know, so.

I mean, I'm with you. hope she does that. I want to see it because I mean, watching her battle some of the big hitters is just so much fun. I do hope we see, let's say maybe fourth round. I don't know if it could work out, but Shvyan Tek Ostapenko. want to see it. That's such a fun matchup in Ostapenko. I absolutely love the way she plays tennis.

I'll watch any of her matches because you never know what you're gonna get and she can just hit you off the court or you know Have an off day and you know, you're not gonna be either way She won't waste your she won't waste your time when you're watching herself

Alvin Owusu (25:28.202)
This is true, and I mean the Panko versus Ega record is, it's well known by all fans and both players. And it would be, I think last year they just missed each other. They were set to meet in like the second or third round or something like that and Panko wasn't able to pull it out. But it would be amazing if we were to get them, and Panko's playing some good ball right now. I think she's still in Rome.

Bob Murray (25:53.441)
She is, I got to watch, I happened to be grabbing lunch during Stuttgart when Oste Penko was playing Andreva and the way that she stole the first set from Andreva, like I think I'm pretty sure Andreva was either serving for the set or had set, whatever it was. I wanna say she just hit, she got out of whatever the game was by hitting four just,

like three backhand winners and then another winner where I was just like, Ostapenko is just hitting every return as hard as she can and she's making everything and she just stole this set. She lost the match, but it was just impressive to watch someone just absolutely pound every ball as hard as they could and make it and steal a set. you're like, what are you doing about that? You just wait around because it's really hard to do that for two and a half hours on clay.

But hey, you know, so it's

Alvin Owusu (26:51.934)
Yeah, yeah. Former, former, former French Open champion, Elaine Osipenko. She knows how to play on it.

Bob Murray (26:56.998)
She knows how to play on it. It gives her extra time and she can hit through the court, which that's not that many people.

Alvin Owusu (27:02.454)
So that's a big deal. Like a couple weeks back, we had Chris Eubanks on the show and we were talking about how clay, it almost benefits the bigger hitters because it is so hard, especially when it gets wet and slow, right? As you know, you play on clay a lot. Like guy like myself, I'm not a big dude. It's gonna be hard for me to hit through the court on those kind of conditions, but those bigger players, it's a little,

It's you think of it as like faster players are better on clay because they can move better. But like to a certain, at a certain point, like when these guys are six, three, and they can move, you need to be able to hit the damn ball through the court at some point. And she's got, she's got the heft. Like I was in, went to Charleston and went this year and last year, last year, uh, caught her out in the practice courts. Um, maybe on like day two, she's a lot taller in person than she looks on TV. She's a unit.

Like that is a strong woman. That is a strong woman. And when she like gets her legs into a ball, like what you see on TV, you kind of hear it in person. Yeah, it's a big ball. It's a big ball. It'd be fun.

Bob Murray (28:12.192)
You, right?

Yeah, from the looks of it, it looks like she's almost holding like an Eastern grip forehand where like, it's not like she's like, you know, EG is super semi-Western when she's hitting it or maybe even Western, I don't even know how, but it looks extreme. Oste-Panko is one of those where she's hitting right through the ball and it's not a lot of spin. So it's one of those, know, I frankly don't even know how she keeps the ball in.

the way she does, swinging it at the way she does, which is why I love tennis, where you can do it in so many different ways. A lot of ways work, certain ways are better than others, but you see the different techniques and it's great. someone like me can't fathom how someone hits that consistently using that sort of grip, where I think, if I can recall with you, you're pretty semi-Western on the forehand.

At least from my recollection.

Alvin Owusu (29:13.964)
Yeah, I used to be. No, no, no, that's true, that's true. I'll tell you a story. This is probably like 2013 or so, maybe 2012. I pull up to this tennis academy and there's a teaching out there and one of the head coaches comes out to introduce himself to me and he's like, hey, nice to meet you. Just wanna let you know, you can't teach here with that forehead, we're gonna have to fix it. And that was my almost sliding towards Western.

Like forehand, was pretty, pretty around the, around the bottom there. so over the course of that summer, had to like, Bring it around because we were very, we were very big on teaching proper grips. And so I had to work to bring it around. was hitting red ball between like, between like summer camp groups, like mini court red ball with like players and stuff. And then worked my way up to orange ball. got to green dot ball the week of Kalamazoo and I had to take a player there. So I'm over off the backside of stow.

Bob Murray (29:52.008)
Okay.

Alvin Owusu (30:13.257)
with like a good player, like trying to like work this forehand. I put a couple in the back fence. It was nerve-wracking. But long story, I say that to say, normal, normal traditional grip forehand these days, but your memory does serve you well.

Bob Murray (30:29.727)
Okay, okay. I just always remember you running around hitting that two-handed lefty backhand and grinding and smiling while you were doing it. yes.

Alvin Owusu (30:41.347)
That was true, that was true. And that you can't run forever, so I had to figure out how to crack an egg at some point. See my previous point. See my previous point. Yeah, that's, okay, outside of the little women that we've discussed, who else would, if they were to rock up and win Roland Garros, because I feel like the women's field is, I feel like it's wide open. And we talked about this before, like this is one of the best.

Bob Murray (30:45.561)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (31:09.043)
the best times to be a fan of and following women's hitters right now because I feel like you could go eight, maybe nine deep. And at the end of that term, I go, wasn't that big of a surprise that this person actually put it together.

Bob Murray (31:23.934)
I mean, who I want or who do I, like, are we talking, like, I press a button, this person wins. Who do I kind of want to win this one? Or are we talking?

Alvin Owusu (31:34.187)
Uhhh, sure, sure. How are you feeling about it?

Bob Murray (31:39.474)
I mean, I'd love to see Jess Pakula. I don't think this is the one for her, but she's been playing solid. If she can get herself deep into the tournament and you get the right matchup, think she, think, I don't see her losing before the quarters. I'm so impressed with her, just with the way she goes about her business. She's professional in everything that she does. And you know, like her floor.

is so high. She's never going to bring it less. Like, what is it? She's only lost to Rebecca and Marta Kostik this year. I don't think she's who else has she lost to? So and those people go on to win the tournaments. So yeah, I mean, I'd love to see her do well.

Alvin Owusu (32:09.642)
Yeah.

Bob Murray (32:30.833)
I mean, I'm rooting for Sorana Sirstea. Sirstea? Sirstea? Which one? Sirstea. Okay. I'm rooting for her. I watched her at the US Open years ago and I was just, I thought she had such a pretty game and then didn't really hear much from her since and now she's making a run and would love to see her make a deep run and keep, you know.

Alvin Owusu (32:36.843)
Cristea, Serana Cristea, yeah.

Bob Murray (32:59.792)
keep her swan song going. whether or not that happens or not, either way, but I like the way she plays tennis. I like the way she competes. I got to watch the end of the Sabalenka match where she, I wanna say she didn't close it out, stayed with it, then was able to the second time around. So, yeah, I wanna see some new,

So I think it's good for tennis to have some new blood. I think some people might not have loved Vodrosov winning or Krijic of winning the French and Wimby. But I kind of love, I love a random person getting in there, winning seven matches and, you know, making history. you know, I feel like that's more open on the women's in general than on the men's side, which is why it's so exciting.

I feel like there's legitimately, I mean, you and I talked about this about the men who could make the final, but from the women's, mean, I think we could come up with legitimately, I don't think it would be crazy to come up with 10 players who could make the finals of Roland Garros this year.

Alvin Owusu (34:04.53)
Ha ha ha!

Alvin Owusu (34:20.137)
Yeah, I mean that's about right. That's about right. mean you mentioned Jess, right? She's finally a grandson before. Coco's won two, Ega's won six, Rebacca's won two, Arena's won four, right? Those are your top five players in the world, like.

Bob Murray (34:34.716)
Andreva could do it at any point. Kostrych's looking incredible. So, mean, you know, I don't foresee Paolini doing it again, but you know, things happen. You know, so, there's, you know, and we haven't even gotten into, I mean, what's been happening with Mboko? I haven't.

Alvin Owusu (34:49.813)
Things happen. Things happen.

Bob Murray (35:00.893)
I haven't seen, like maybe I've just missed what she's done. Did she play Rome?

Alvin Owusu (35:06.187)
She did play Rome. I think she came over from Madrid or did she play a tournament before Madrid? She didn't play one before Madrid. So think she took a decent amount of time off after the Sunshine double, their Sunshine swing. did she play Madrid? I think she lost early in Madrid maybe and then didn't do too great in Rome. She's an interesting player. I've had the chance to watch her in person a couple times now. First in DC.

she actually played her back and that was a, that was a fun match to just kind of like sip. Like you go to these smaller, let's say smaller tournaments as a 500, but like sitting effectively, was effectively in Rebecca and his player box. I'm sitting, Vukov wasn't there, but the, the other guy was there and he was one row in front of me and like just across the aisle and just like bark in. like, I'm, this is, this is the best way to watch tennis. Like, and, but one of the things about, I noticed about him Boko is just.

I want a little more shape out of my would be clay court grand slam champion. Let's put it that way. while, yeah, yeah, I want a ball that dives, not a ball that skids, and she comes across the back of that forehand almost a little side spinny sometimes. Not granted it happens when she's rushed. She'll have more time on clay, but I just don't, yeah, I don't feel like that's gonna be the surface where she pops and wins her first grand slam.

Bob Murray (36:13.721)
Okay, I hear you.

Alvin Owusu (36:36.233)
she's got a few in front of her, but I don't know that with the women's game being where it is right now and some of her, like her not being a natural clay court player, I just don't see that happening. my personal favorite on the women's side, Carolina Muhova, I feel like, yeah, she's like every guy's favorite women's tennis player.

Bob Murray (36:56.255)
she's...

Bob Murray (37:02.394)
So, and Alvin, I don't know if you saw this match, but I think when I think back, if you were to ask me, what's the best set of tennis you've seen in the past, let's just say five years? And I could go through a few and, know, Sinner and Alcaraz would probably have some, Novak would probably have some, but the first set that Ruhova played against Jespa Gula at the US Open in the semis,

Two years ago when Sabalenka got beat Jess in the finals, that was the most incredible set of tennis that I've ever seen in my life where everything she was doing was perfect. was like, I don't know how anyone can beat her if she plays like this. And then, know, she just got in the match and did that, but her level of tennis, what she can do, how beautiful it is to watch is just, I don't think...

Alvin Owusu (37:37.823)
Yeah.

Bob Murray (38:01.578)
She's my just as far as she's like the the the female version of of with a two-handed backhand of Lorenzo Musetti where I could just watch I could just watch her swing all day long and just enjoy it, know I feel the same way about Musetti where I could just just let me watch him slice hit one handers whatever, you know, it's She's that way to where and and comes to the net does everything well and and and the athleticism is just is next level

Alvin Owusu (38:31.242)
Yeah, and I feel like we, you when she kind of burst onto the, I guess, greater tennis conscious when she finaled French Open, was that 2023? think it was 2023. You know, and she's been somewhat injured. Obviously, she's semifinaled the US Open that same year, but then has been injured. I feel like she's, she is like back. She is like firmly back. She won a 1000 this year. Like she's been pushing people. And I feel like...

Bob Murray (38:47.396)
That's right.

Alvin Owusu (39:00.682)
I just feel like with the right first week draw, if she doesn't get herself caught up into like grinding her body down in the first week, I feel like Mojova, I wasn't thinking about this 10 minutes ago, but I'm thinking about it now and I feel somewhat attached to it. Like if I had to put down a dark horse, like, mm.

Bob Murray (39:25.764)
So, so here's...

Alvin Owusu (39:26.416)
That could make a lot of sense.

Bob Murray (39:29.048)
Okay, here's, and maybe she got her once, but Coco's got her number. She might have beaten her in one of these clay court events. I could be off on that. I think she did though, because I remember every time I see that matchup, just assume Coco's gonna beat her like two and two or something, because she seems to just have no problem with, it's like all the things that Mojave does. As soon as she plays Coco, she's like,

Alvin Owusu (39:36.114)
Yeah, that's a problem.

Bob Murray (39:57.721)
I believe that I can actually hit through her and do this. but yes, I think that's a bad matchup, but I think she's done pretty well against Rabakhan. She does pretty well against everyone else. bet. actually, the year she made the finals, she came back down from five, two in the third against Sabalenka to make that final. She rattled off five in a row to win five in the third against Sabalenka. My goodness.

Alvin Owusu (40:18.634)
in the semi, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bob Murray (40:28.501)
Sabalenka has let some go that like when you start thinking back, I mean that one like you're like, that I think she had a tight one to Andreva the year before. I mean, Coco last year, it's, know, it's she's got, yeah, she seems to move on, but there might be some scar, scart, scart, Coco at the USO. Exactly. There's some scar tissue potentially building. There's some wibbled in losses, you know, well,

Alvin Owusu (40:48.778)
Cook with the US Open two years ago.

Bob Murray (40:57.037)
And he was, and he's Samova, Maddie Key, you know, there's, there's been, there's been a lot of those. So, you know.

Alvin Owusu (41:02.878)
And the thing is like with the Sabalinka of it all, it takes a Herculean effort from these other women to beat her. But yet, there are a lot of times when we get to the business end of a third set where she doesn't get it done. And that's another differentiator between her and like, let's say Serena, right? Serena would get those matches taken care of, like true champion, like.

upper echelons of the hall of fame level. And we have a lot of you just, you just route them off a few, like a few offhand instances of in which, mean, she's there, right? She's going to be there. Like she's going to make, she's been in the finals of how many five straight grand slams now, no, semi-finals of Wimbledon last year, but she's, she's there and it takes a Herculean effort to take her down. But her record in, you know, tight,

three set matches is it's not fantastic. It's not fantastic.

Bob Murray (42:03.884)
Right? Yeah, it's a...

Alvin Owusu (42:07.636)
And to your Mojave golf point, Carolina just beat her for the first time, Stuttgart, this year. It just happened.

Bob Murray (42:14.838)
That's right, okay, I knew I saw that, because I always keep an eye on these things and I'm like, I was astounded. I think it was straight sets, wasn't it?

Alvin Owusu (42:25.517)
Uh... Was it? Was it? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, really really good matches like two in the third or three and third something like that it was yeah it was it was a good one it was good but like that it's a game it's a game style issue though like it is a game style issue like Mahoba likes to come into the net Cocoa's got some of the best passing shots on tour and Carolina like while she like all the things that she has at her disposal the one thing that she doesn't do well

Bob Murray (42:31.786)
Okay, gotcha, okay.

and and and

Alvin Owusu (42:52.584)
actually has hit through people. So she has a tough time, her ball is not that big. And so like if you can't hit through Coco, like you don't really have a lot of other options. She's gonna make you overplay and that's what she typically does to Carolina.

Bob Murray (42:54.476)
Yeah, you're right.

Bob Murray (43:10.935)
And how did Ruhova do in Rome?

Alvin Owusu (43:16.212)
Great question, no idea.

Bob Murray (43:18.295)
Because that's my only concern for her. My concern for her is typically like is just can her body handle the beating? And she's made deep runs. Who has been, who has, wait, wait, her ranking is like for all the success she's had recently, I think she's still barely top 100 in the world right now. It's gonna be moving now that she's having these results, but I was astounded by that.

Alvin Owusu (43:28.518)
she lost a pot of hova. She lost a pot of hova. Who's ballin'? Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (43:44.626)
Yeah, even like even Rome, think she did. She might have had, did she quality into Rome because she, those mid-rid points hadn't come over yet. But yeah, she's, yeah. Yeah.

Bob Murray (43:53.727)
Yeah, she did have to qualy. She had to qualy. And she just beat, wait, did she beat Winner? No, she lost to Jess, but it was in three sets, right? Okay, yeah. But no, she's been impressive. So she's another one you don't wanna run into as a seeded player. That's a dark horse just kinda lying around there. That's, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (44:03.218)
Yeah, yeah, it a match too.

Alvin Owusu (44:15.271)
Especially because she's playing so well right now too. Yeah, it's real. think she's in the top 20 right now? Did she just creep up and...

Bob Murray (44:25.055)
No, Potter, Potter Pove No way. I think she's still probably in the six seventies, something like that.

Alvin Owusu (44:31.621)
Okay, she's just cracked top 40. Okay.

Bob Murray (44:34.069)
she did crack in the live ranking? Or is that the race?

Alvin Owusu (44:35.729)
Yeah, because those,

to be determined. I'll get back to you that one. but yeah, those majority points just out, just out, you know, showing up this week. So that's, yeah, she's it's you're looking right now, I think there's a profile of player on the women's side, like because of the, in the tail effects of like what Sabalink has done and what arena, part of me, has done and even, you know, Coco is obviously a fantastic mover, but she's not a little girl either. Like she's, she's, she's a very strong, tall.

Bob Murray (44:44.159)
Okay, gotcha, okay.

Alvin Owusu (45:11.305)
it's almost five, 10. It seems like the barrier to entry right now, there's a certain requisite of size that you need, right? Unless you can kind of counterbalance that the way Jess does, like playing close to the baseline, having phenomenal talent, being able to take balls on the rise to kind of make up for that lack of natural power from having longer levers. players like Potipova or Marta Kostyak, who are just now kind of finding

themselves as, you know, mid twenties tennis players. I think we're going to get a few more of those start to start coming through and even, junction went right. Like she's another one of those. Like if she's healthy, you know, watch out.

Bob Murray (45:58.742)
Yeah, she's a fun one to watch and I'm glad to see that she's back in it and going to be returning to where she won her gold medal. So that's always got to give you good vibes. Different tournament, I understand, but same location, my understanding. So hopefully she can make a run as well. So it's going to be very exciting. think I heard you on the last one.

the draw ceremony. Does this happen Friday after qualifying right before the tournament starts?

Alvin Owusu (46:29.705)
Uhhhh

Alvin Owusu (46:38.877)
Yes, it'll be, so it's eight, nine days from now, whatever it is. Yeah, it's next week, Friday. So we're recording this in the middle of Rome. it'll be, Qualities will end on Thursday of next week, I think. And then Friday is the draw ceremony. And it's like, I highly advise anyone, go follow Roland Garros on YouTube and they will live stream it. It is like you're invited to this party. It is very...

It's very French open. It is a vibe and I think it's gonna matter. I think the draw will matter probably less on the women's side. Like it's gonna be, you're gonna get a fun quarter.

Bob Murray (47:11.606)
Thanks

Bob Murray (47:15.606)
I've got to draw a question for you. Does Ega want to be on Sabalenka's half or Rabacan's half?

Alvin Owusu (47:21.203)
Yes.

Alvin Owusu (47:31.832)
Uh, probably that semi-final last year against arena was a very, I found it to be very entertaining. I enjoyed like, they were just getting after it. Now per our previous conversation, is that the way that Egan needs to be attacking arena? Probably not. Like trying to go toe to toe, blow for blow with her is not going to get it done.

The short answer to your question would be.

Yeah, probably arena. Probably arena. And I don't have a good reason why. That just feels like...

Bob Murray (48:12.041)
So wait, didn't she beat, didn't she take out Rabakhan in the quarters before she played Sabalenka last year? Isn't that, she beat her in three sets, didn't she?

Alvin Owusu (48:23.879)
That, yes. Is that right? that right? That could be right.

Bob Murray (48:29.407)
I think so, I think she lost the first set and ended up pulling that one out. I could be wrong. I could be mixing it up with another tournament, but I think it was, because either way, it was going to be a really good semifinal on that women's side, regardless of who won out of Rabacuna and Sviatnick in that one. I, it's fourth round. wow. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So they, okay.

Alvin Owusu (48:50.695)
that you are correct. Fourth round, fourth round. She beat her in the fourth round. Yeah. Yeah.

And then Ega beats Fidelina in the quarters and then lost to Sabley in the semis.

Bob Murray (49:02.387)
That's right, that's right, okay. Yeah, it's obviously a different question on the men's side with what side you wanna be on if you're, I guess if you're Novak, yeah. So, or not even Novak, who's right after, who's the number three guy in the world right, no, no, who's the, I guess, who would be the three seed right now? Who's the four seed?

Alvin Owusu (49:26.001)
Novac would be the three seed.

There is your trivia question of the day. Who would be the four seed right now? it? No, I mean, well, hell it is it FAA right now?

Bob Murray (49:35.049)
Is that Shelton?

FAA? FAA?

Who's five in the world?

Alvin Owusu (49:46.289)
I know FAA was five or six somewhere around there very recently. God bless it, is Felix. But Ben's only like 20 points behind him. like it's close, but that's probably what we're going into.

Bob Murray (49:58.108)
Okay, that's the quadrant I wanna be in right there. If you're on the guy's side, you want FAA. Not that he can't play on it, I think that's, of the top eight seeds, I think that's the most open one.

Alvin Owusu (50:19.921)
Interesting, where do you sit with, this is gonna be weird, where do you sit with Novak right now? I mean, when we talk about, when you say the most open one, Novak is, at some point, that's.

Bob Murray (50:34.004)
Alright, so, so,

Let me be frank, Novak's my favorite player. I used to not like him until I went to US Open qualifying, saw him have a practice where he's putting on such a show for the crowd. I frankly was better than his hitting partner because this guy was shanking every other ball. He starts serving balls to little cups and

Alvin Owusu (51:06.185)
You

Bob Murray (51:10.45)
some like 12 year old in the crowd calls him out. I am not sure whether this was a plant because then this kid, he calls him down because he's like, you're calling me out for missing the little water cup right here. Pulls him down, kid goes up, like proper service motion, almost hits it, crowd goes wild. It was just, he put on such a show. He knew he was an ambassador for the sport. He won me over. This is pre-kids, Alvin. Guy won me over, signed every autograph for.

20, 25 minutes and I was like, I can't imagine Raff and Roger staying that long doing that, you know, and he won me over for them. And then, then there was a point where I wanted Novak to get to the finals of the Grand Slam and every time I wanted him to lose, like against Vavrinka, all these ones, because whoever beat him in a final played the match of their life. So let me preface it with that. I have watched, I can, you know, track my life based on

Alvin Owusu (52:01.225)
Hmm

Bob Murray (52:10.087)
results of Grand Slam finals and semis and all that, can take myself through what was happening in life at that time. I have seen him come out of so many tough situations that until he's retired, I believe, or until something else happens, I don't care that he hasn't had a lot of matches, he lost a Dino Prismich, I don't care. He has made me believe that you have to kill him 10 times to get rid of him.

Grand Slam tennis is a different beast. I would put money over him over AA any day of the week. Nothing against FA. He still makes me believe. And until I see otherwise, a three set match isn't going to make me stop believing him.

Alvin Owusu (52:58.056)
That's the right answer. That's actually the right answer. It is, it is. I, I, similar to you, was not a, I was not a Novak fan coming up. I was a, you know, I was a, I was a Fed guy. And, which is awkward because I'm a lefty who plays with a pure arrow, so like you would, you would think I'd be an adult guy, but I was not, I was a Fed guy. And then I came to respect an adult and, and really appreciate him. And, but the Novak conversion for me did not happen until probably like 29.

Bob Murray (52:59.591)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.

Alvin Owusu (53:27.496)
I would say when I also saw him in person at the Miami open watching him practice and I was like just watching he was playing his practicing with Marin Chiles a little bit better than the the hack you saw him hitting with at the US Open but I saw them they were just doing cross court down the lines cross court down the lines like in sets of 20 and they're just like okay they've made 20 balls and then they just take that ball and put it away and then do it again they weren't missing and I'm sitting right behind Novak watching him hit and I was like

Bob Murray (53:40.388)
Right, right.

Alvin Owusu (53:57.235)
This is perfect. He's perfect. is one, mean, since then he has broken tennis, right? But he is, the way that he moves and the way that he hits a ball is perfect. And I could watch him hit all day. I could spend hours watching him hit a tennis ball. He makes me believe. And I know he's tortured and I love it.

And so yeah, I'm with you. Go and win the damn thing. Give me a reason to care during the second week on the men's side because I'm searching. I'm searching.

Bob Murray (54:38.738)
I'll tell you, I'll watch. There's certain guys I wouldn't necessarily watch their early round matches when I think they're gonna smoke them. I will be watching all of his matches if I can even possibly make it work in my schedule. I know that I'm gonna be so sad. look, Tennessee's in such a good spot. have so many good stars. I can go back and remember being

like not an adult when he started first coming up and he's still doing it. you know, the amount of things that have changed in life, I'm like, and he's still doing it. You know, I'm going to find it very just sad because it's going to be like, we're getting old, man. We're getting old. Like it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, I don't want it to end. I've just, I've just loved the ride that I just wanted to keep. I, I don't, I don't want it to end. I, I, I was crying watching Rafa's,

you know, ceremony at the French Open last year. Like, I mean, these things take me back to all the times that all just all these amazing moments they've given tennis me personally. Like I, I'm just, I was glad he got his celebration. I know I'll be sad and I'll, I'm sure I'll be even more sad when, when No Box Time comes, which hopefully is not for, for many, many years. So.

Alvin Owusu (56:03.827)
Well, I, you know, similar to you, we're the same age. I can track, you know, certain parts of my life along with some of these Grand Slam finals. And I, I, I'm always comforted by what Roger said when he was on the way out and Rafa said the same thing. Like tennis always continues. And you know, the, thing that we have in front of us right now with, with Alcaraz and Center, if you just go back 18 months,

Yeah, about 18 months or so, 24 months to be safe. We didn't have it, right? So, and all of sudden we do have it. And it is the thing that is special right now. And we worry a little bit about like, you know, can these two men prop up the men's game? Is anyone gonna join? It's like, we've been here before. Like you remember 07 Fed, like we were like, six to 08, you couldn't touch him. And it's like, well, what's gonna happen? Okay, well, we got Rafa, right?

And know, always, tennis has a way of taking care of itself and we keep replenishing the coffers. And I think it's really cool right now, cause you're seeing these young guys that effectively are, you know, four years younger than, you know, Carlos and Center who, you know, if they're 19 years old now, four years ago, they were 15. So they're watching these guys on television. Like they're, they're modeling their games up to these guys and they're coming.

And I trust in tennis and while it will be sad to see Novak go, I know, I know with every fire of my being that there is more good tennis coming. That's what tennis does. We just might have to get through a pretty sad French Open before that happens though.

Bob Murray (57:45.969)
100%.

And yeah, I mean, I'm bracing myself for, you know, I'm totally bracing myself for my bubble being burst and being like, realizing it's the beginning of the end. I still think grass is his best chance. I do. I just think the skill set and the small footwork, the things that you need to be able to do, hands.

Alvin Owusu (57:52.092)
That might be the only downside.

Bob Murray (58:18.296)
I think he's still got everything and the ability to pinpoint serve that he's got a shot.