Coco Gauff’s Next Step: Why Svitolina Exposed a Question of Clarity

Coco Gauff’s loss to Elina Svitolina in Rome is not a simple setback. It is a useful snapshot of where Coco’s game currently sits: more dangerous than before, more complete than many results suggest, but still in the uncomfortable middle stage between defensive excellence and first-strike clarity.

We discuss why Coco’s serve, forehand, and forehand return are trending upward, while her point construction is still catching up to the tools. Svitolina becomes the measuring stick in this match: a complete, tactically mature player who can defend, redirect, attack movement patterns, and punish Coco when she defaults to the safest option.

The episode also looks at the broader WTA landscape around Aryna Sabalenka. Rather than framing the question as a sudden decline, we ask whether the field is compressing around her. The final section moves into Alvin’s RPNY racket fitting experience and what equipment choices reveal about player identity, ball quality, and the cost of changing frames without proper testing.

Transcript

Torrey Hawkins (00:00.584)
how to play offense. She now has to learn how to really play with weapons because for the bulk of her career she's played defense and counterpunished and now she has to kind of pick her pick and choose her times and kind of I almost suspect there'll be a period time where the pendulum will swing the other way. Well she'll lose a few matches just being almost too aggressive because she now has weapons to use and I love that for her because it means the next three years of Coco we have not seen the best Coco

yet you know and and I think that's a good thing and unfortunately for her today or whatever was earlier today in Rome but you heard right here Coco golf is a better player than when she won the other two the other two slams she's a better player today Elena Sveta Lena is playing some of the best ball of her career and I think that it's just she's more complete right now but Coco will be more complete give her

Alvin Owusu (00:31.369)
I agree. I agree.

Torrey Hawkins (00:59.75)
I say six to 12 more months, she is going to be, I think a light year beyond what you think she is now. I don't even think we've even, we haven't even really seen Coco scratch serves, because she's been playing with a backhand and a return. Let's kind of put it that way. Imagine her with a serve and a forehand. Now the problem is now you got to put reps and confidence behind her, right? And stress test it. And I'm telling you Alvin, just, anyway, I don't know where you're going with today's agenda.

but I want to.

Alvin Owusu (01:30.142)
I was just gonna say welcome to the people. Welcome to another episode of the best of three podcast. That's called a rolling start because we got right into it today. I'm Alvin, that's Tori. We just finished up with the women's final in Rome. Alina Svitolina, all props to her. Takes out Cocoa Golf in a hard fought battle. 6-4, 6-7, 6-2 for her third victory over Cocoa this year. Alina is...

Torrey Hawkins (01:32.692)
Yes,

my god.

Alvin Owusu (02:00.035)
To your point, we say best tennis of her career, and I think we need to make sure we're paying credence to, before Alina Svitolina left the tour to have a child, she was career high number three, right? But a very different game style, right? And much about your thoughts earlier about how Coco is going to continue to grow and morph and add, like you see the weapons starting to show up, but now she needs to figure out how to use them.

Torrey Hawkins (02:10.186)
For sure, for sure.

for sure.

Torrey Hawkins (02:28.458)
When to use them. Right. think that's right. How when is I 100 % just saying I wanted because I think her break points, you know, in and please don't lose your train of thought. I just want to this one thing or momentum shifts come from which Coco is she trusting new Coco Coco and I think that's where she gets herself into some into some gray area that has it hasn't fused yet in my

Alvin Owusu (02:28.694)
I think we're in the exact same, when do you use them? How, when, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (02:42.53)
Yeah, you're

Alvin Owusu (02:55.918)
Yeah, that's a big one. Because with Alina, she was a, we'll call her a, I wouldn't even say aggressive baseliner at that time. She was a retriever, more or less. Counterpuncher, not punished, counterpuncher. But Alina's for Alina 2.0 now has weapons, and not unless she has weapons, she's looking for those balls. She's looking for those opportunities.

Torrey Hawkins (03:08.455)
I would say counter-puncher, not even punishing it, 100%.

Oof.

Alvin Owusu (03:22.07)
It's an interesting use case and it's very similar to Yannick Center who we will talk about tomorrow. We will not talk about Yannick and the men's side today. We will talk about the women's today. We will save that literally for another talk show. But very similar in that you have a player with a base and we'll use Center as the example, right? He got taller later so he had the baseline ability to make balls and then got bigger and added in power, right?

Alina Svetlana very similar, not in the growth standpoint, but her stock game was make balls. And now she has added in the ability to dictate with the ability to fall back into making balls, which is that if you can build in that order, like you can teach, you can teach a ball maker to hit bigger and read and look, but it's hard to teach. Right. And they'll stay consistent, but it's hard to teach a first strike player how to then

Torrey Hawkins (04:12.574)
Right. And they'll stay consistent. Right.

be patient and go the distance and grind 100%. At least naturally anyway. I completely agree with you and I've done both. And let's face it, Alvin, you know as well as I do, you've coached long time.

Alvin Owusu (04:21.378)
Be patient. Yes. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (04:33.0)
You don't often get to choose, right? The kid's personality is how, it's like our kids, right? They show up how they show up. We can mold them, tweak them, moderate a little bit of behavior, modify a little behavior. You don't really get to change personality and preferences too, too much. So, to your point.

Alvin Owusu (04:35.542)
It chooses you.

Alvin Owusu (04:50.766)
Yeah. And I'll even, I'll use myself as a slight example. Like I grew up with a little funky, a funky forehand grip, a little slit under touching, touching Western big time and not carried that all the way through juniors in college. And then not until, you know, I was almost 30 years old was I forced to change my grip due to the place I was coaching. And when it finally started to come together, I now had the option to start dictating on the forehand side, but I didn't really know how because I had not grown up putting those types of.

Torrey Hawkins (05:06.655)
change.

Alvin Owusu (05:18.542)
points together. So to your earlier point about almost the J curve that that Coco is going to have to likely go through here as that forehand gets better. And then she learns to trust it. She's going to need to learn how to work with it and build around it. And that is a that is the J right. That's it. It's got to get worse before it gets better. But when it gets better, it will be better. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (05:22.772)
Yes. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (05:29.672)
Yes.

Yes. Enjoy. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (05:42.314)
And she's in the finals of Rome while she's figuring it out. So you gotta appreciate, and again, to your point, all respect to Elena Svitolina, Ukrainian's finest. It played a phenomenal match, it was a great match to watch. But I will say, and I have to this about Coco, because I have been on her case as much, I've been a critic of her, I'm always looking for something. I'm like...

I'm like Dr. Xavier, you know what mean? I'm looking for hope. I'm always looking for hope. I'm always looking for it and I'm seeing it. We talked about this before. So the service coming, the foreign service coming and it, no fault of dropping and more importantly.

Alvin Owusu (06:13.324)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (06:19.009)
It's coming. Double falls are dropping. First set percentage up.

Torrey Hawkins (06:24.274)
The forehand on the forehand return, Alvin, the forehand return is about to be a monster. And I'm looking at this young woman now, and she's still trying to play a lot of things. It's almost like she's got so many tools now, she's trying to figure out which one to use. She hit more drop shots than she normally hits. She's going for the forehand, she's rolling the forehand, and I almost think that lack of clarity is actually her only real issue right now. Careful what you ask for, right? Now you gotta serve in the forehand, so now you gotta use them.

at the right time, in the right situation, and you got a very experienced customer on the other side of the net from you named Alina Svidlina who is approaching in a sense her zenith right now. Physical maturity, mental maturity more importantly, and she's very clear on what she wants to do. And she's a bad match up. So you're in a situation.

Alvin Owusu (07:13.985)
Let's go let's go into that a little bit more about that matchup. Why because now Coco has now lost three straight times to Alina, right? It was pretty pretty straightforward at the Australian Open a little a little Hard it was very hard fought in I believe that was Dubai is when she beat her and Alina beat her in three there and then Again here in another tough match. What is it? And we talked about this a little bit before but I want you to go into it What is it about this particular matchup that? from both

players perspective. Why is this a good matchup for Alina and why is this maybe a tougher matchup for Coco?

Torrey Hawkins (07:47.678)
I'm gonna put this as simple as I can. I've often had this mental image of the game where, call it my basketball days, Alvin, where we had the old school triple threat position, right? You can dribble, you can pass, you can shoot, all from this one position, okay? I have it, exactly, you know what saying? Hand on top of the ball, you got it, right? You got that visual. In tennis, I've also thought of it in terms of things are, in a sense, three options.

Alvin Owusu (07:57.548)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yep. Put it in the pocket and the top. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (08:15.506)
And let's just use a very simple example. You got a forehand, right? You can take a cross court, right? You can take it down the line, right? And if you're using the option three and you're pretty good at it, you can do something a little more uncommon. Be it a drop shot, be it an angle. I'll leave it there. Pretty simple. want to keep it simple for our viewers and listeners to follow. Typically, most players will choose option one. Option one is the decidedly safe, best option, almost...

The opponent knows you're probably going to do option one. That's the only problem. So you know I'm in option one. And if you're fast, and this is where it gets tricky, and I want to kind of start talking about Elena Svitolina's her prowess tactically. Coco, like all quick players, tends to hedge. She will hedge to option one. That almost puts her behind a little bit on the clay. And she's leaning a little bit.

Alvin Owusu (08:47.741)
Right, exactly.

Torrey Hawkins (09:13.866)
Alina is good enough to hurt you with a downline forehand or a cross court. And so now she's looking for you to just say, okay, which one you're going. And she might go behind you first to go in front of you the next time or flip flop if she feels it. But bottom line, she's dictating and she's comfortable dictating. So you now take a quick player that doesn't mind being on the run, that is kind of relying on your mistake when on the run and you don't make any.

Alvin Owusu (09:39.528)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (09:41.768)
So you have, now we have level, now we have the second progression. Number one, you are going option two versus option one. You're going to that second one, not as preferred. You're catching that quick player, hedging, leaning, bit of an early split, so they're kind of cheating a little bit, off first base, so to speak. And now you've got a girl that can, an opponent that can make you pay for said, for said lean, right? And Alina is very good around the net and very good passing. She's a, she's probably the

Alvin Owusu (10:11.341)
complete player.

Torrey Hawkins (10:11.712)
most complete player I would say inside the top five at this point in time. If you take all of the tactics, I'm not saying she has the biggest game and I don't know if she's what she made six seven. What is she down the road? Is she is she's not quite.

Alvin Owusu (10:25.51)
She was 10 going in after this. I she'll probably be around seven or six or something like that. I said seven or six. See?

Torrey Hawkins (10:28.944)
She's gonna be 5'6", maybe 5'6". 6'7", don't say it, don't say it. So, what I'm saying, so let me tweak my verbiage, but my point's the same. She's the most complete player outside of the top five, right? In terms of having all of the skills. She attacks, she defends, she has a good serve, she's not.

six feet, you know, she's not Rebecca, she's not Sabalinka, she's not Anissa Mova, she's not, you know, all these Amazonian Valkyries, you know what I mean, that are out there, but she handles what she does extremely, extremely well. And I say that to say a shorter, more nimble, more, if you will, well-heeled five-seven that knows exactly what to do at different parts of the court all through.

goes up against a player who's probably the best mover, the best, one of the fastest athletes on the Pro Tour, who still has a tendency to defend, and she might be just a tiny bit unsure, I wouldn't even say gun shy, unsure of when to attack, when to grind, on a surface that her athleticism and her slides get her by, not necessarily her tactics, and Svetolina is dialed in on hers. So that's where I feel even the third piece. So you have

Svidalina's options. Svidalina is comfortable in all sorts of court and you have lack of clarity slash lack of, I'm gonna say true, I know how to hurt you. Coco knows how to counter you. She doesn't, and she does it very well and she's in great shape and she moves great. she, anything you leave on crumbs on the table will become, she can put up with them together and make a meal. She will hurt you big time if you leave the door open.

Alvin Owusu (11:59.531)
Right, that's the... Yes.

Torrey Hawkins (12:16.904)
But if you close the deal, her backup, her go-to, her default play is to counterpunish. And if you don't give her the opportunity to counterpunish, you can take the ball out of her hands. You can take the racket out of her hand a little bit. And that's what we saw today, especially in that third set.

Alvin Owusu (12:35.905)
Yeah, it's Svetlana, a little taller than you'd think, like five, nine, which, five, nine, yeah, so it matters, yeah. Yeah, and so right now, yeah, but it's, we're talking about, have 13-ish years on tour, give or take for her, complete awareness of her game. She is, at this point, maximizing her game. Same thing with Jessica Pagulo, right?

Torrey Hawkins (12:40.522)
Yeah, wasn't she five-eight? Five-nine, even closer, even more when I was saying it, exactly. She only missed three inches then, didn't she?

Alvin Owusu (13:04.257)
complete maximization of the game. It's not about weaknesses, it's about limitations. And sometimes you can't do anything about your limitations, but you can shore up your weaknesses. You can maximize as much as you can, and both players, both Bagula and SvetaLena are maximizing right now. But that's the other side of that coin is when you see a player who is still, like a CocoaGolf, who is still extremely successful.

Torrey Hawkins (13:18.154)
I understand.

Torrey Hawkins (13:22.666)
100%.

Alvin Owusu (13:32.205)
and still at the top of the women's game who has not yet maximized, right? She's 22 years old. mean, it's like we, like, Irina Sabalinka, let's just use Irina Sabalinka as the example here. Irina Sabalinka won her first Grand Slam in 2023, right? In 2023, she was 25 years old. Right, okay. So when we start talking about, like, when we talk about Coco,

Torrey Hawkins (13:37.638)
Right. Hasn't finished developing all of her game. 100%.

Alvin Owusu (14:00.98)
We have to keep in mind how young she is and she said as much and we've seen it backed up by numbers. Women start to hit their, we'll say peak around 24, like 24 to 27. Coco's not even there yet and she's sitting with two two Grand Slams in the bag and starting to get a, get a feel for these, like what could weapons start to look like? And then you start to fill out that my, my strength is counter punishing. My strength is defending what you offer.

Torrey Hawkins (14:13.706)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (14:29.896)
Now add on top of that, I can go through you consistently. And now you, the finishing school of that is I'm now looking for opportunities to build and then hurt you as a, as a stock like plan a. mean, keep, I'm getting, I'm getting goosebumps right now because I think you have to like think about, think about the, the incomplete version of Cocoa Golf right now and what that might look like in four to five years.

Torrey Hawkins (14:33.138)
Yes.

Torrey Hawkins (14:42.302)
Yes.

Torrey Hawkins (14:55.102)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (15:00.374)
We got pro like, we have problems. We're going, we're going to have problems. And I say we, as in like representing the rest of the WTA.

Torrey Hawkins (15:03.582)
Yep. she will be a major disruptor.

She'll be a major disruptor in the field, Alvin, and I for one can't wait to see it. And I'm actually very, I'm excited. And it sounds ironic to say, on the heels of a loss, but I'm seeing some things in her game that I have been wanting to see for three years. And they're not only here, they're looking good, and she's doing them in earnest. I just have to say, and I'll say this in Svidlina's behalf, but it's a benefit to Coco. She will be better.

for playing the Svitolina types. She will be better for having had this, having had this loss because she will now continue to forge who she is as a tennis player and realize that she is more than just a counterpunisher who can hit on the run, hit great passing shots and can slide. She can actually dictate play, which I don't think she's ever really had the ability to do consistently, not at this level. obviously juniors, I was ahead in shoulders above most.

Juniors just physically she was stronger and faster than almost any of them so that gave her the option But I think you know you get by with that for a little while Alvin and that's kind of what you do You know you don't realize you can do it another way and nothing that's the thing that we're she's coming into her own now Realizing that she can still do it while still not trying to lose confidence who she is and still trying to and you still have that game It's not like she can't do it. It's not that game hasn't been successful But I feel like it's it's it's getting you know, it's getting tougher to do that And I think people starting to realize okay lean on the second

serve, okay, on the forehand, and you just can't do that anymore. You just can't do that anymore. She's got a huge forehand now, got a great serve, and as I said, it'll be great. The one more thing I wanted to add, Alvin, and this is just the state of tennis right now. I was reading an article about Caspar Rood, and again, we won't speak about anything men until tomorrow, but I want to see this one comment, because I think this comment supersedes men women's sports right now, and it really serves as a level set.

Torrey Hawkins (17:07.282)
He says he's a better player now than when he was three in the world. Right? And I look at his comment, I say, you're exactly right. And he says, the problem is everyone else got better too. And we're all getting better together. So he's, know, likes to lean in some ways. He's on the older side of things, not back to his previous high ranking. But he says, I am a much better player today than I was whatever many years ago when he was three in the world.

Alvin Owusu (17:10.86)
I'll take that. Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (17:18.796)
We're all getting better together.

Torrey Hawkins (17:36.412)
And that's the same thing I'm mentioning now for Sitalina. She was three in the world before pre-child. Now she is playing the best tennis of her career. And she might be 7'8, 9' in the world right now.

just now, by the way, was 10 probably coming in the tournament, and she is playing, this is probably the best year of her career, I mean, just playing phenomenal. And I say best in terms of quality of tennis, obviously point-wise, you could make a case for whenever she was top three or four in the world. I say it to say the rest of them are simply getting better with her. And it's very hard to see that, you know, their development, their...

play the level plays not happening in a vacuum you know there it's the the whole pot has increased pressure and heat and everything else and buddy it's what's making tennis so fun to watch right now you know because it's so so good and you know i'd want to kind of level set with that comment because i think sometimes i think sometimes the average fan looks at it and says

Alvin Owusu (18:19.478)
Hmm?

Torrey Hawkins (18:39.306)
As if everything's a constant, right? As everything's, you but I didn't think she was that good. She's 10, she's 10 in the world. Yeah. 10 is what number four in the world used to be, as far as level of play. You know what I mean? 10 in the world now is able to, I mean, does she beat three top fives en route to the title? I'm pretty sure Coco was the third top five she beat en route this week.

Alvin Owusu (19:00.044)
Who did she beat? She beat JPEG? I have to go back and look at it. wasn't... Yeah, she beat, she beat, she definitely beat Ika, she beat Rebacchina, and she beat Coco. Yeah, that's...

Torrey Hawkins (19:05.766)
Eager, but then she beat Eager and...

Torrey Hawkins (19:10.922)
So there's the three. mean, that's not an easy draw.

Alvin Owusu (19:15.66)
It's a week. It's a week. She beat Haley like she sold something too as well. She had a, mean, shots to Ukraine. That's back to back WTA 1000s for Marta Koscik won two weeks ago, a week ago, Madrid. And then now Ms. Svetlana bringing up the back end of the clay court swing here before we get to the Pentultimate big boy tournament before we hit Paris next.

Torrey Hawkins (19:31.592)
Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (19:38.89)
Just great to see.

Alvin Owusu (19:45.548)
Not this week, but next week. Yeah, I mean, let's even zoom out a little bit. That point you made about Kasper was really interesting because when he lost to Carlos in the, I know we're not talking about Minnesota, so this is a brief, when he lost to Carlos in the 2022 US Open in that final, right? I think that was most recent final he made. And they were playing for one in the world. Like if Kasper had won that match, he would have been number one in the world at the age of 20, he would have been 23 at the time. Kasper's only 27 years old. So like he's not.

Torrey Hawkins (20:12.84)
Right. Right. Right. Right.

Alvin Owusu (20:14.687)
Like Elena's 31, Casper's 27. So he should be playing the best tennis of his career right now. But to your point, when he was top three in the world, Sinner was not there. Fed was not really there. Nobeck was there obviously, and then Carlos is he's won his first slam. So like we were going through a bit of a transition period in the game. And when these things happen, you had his comments from last year about like the game has changed and I feel like I'm getting passed by in real time. Yet he...

Torrey Hawkins (20:27.135)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (20:44.523)
steers it back around, wins Madrid last year and finds himself in the final of another Masters 1000 on clay. Like this is the guy who lost to Rafa in the finals of French Open, lost to Novak in the finals of French Open. And yet now he's back feeling like, okay, I'm better. That's, that bodes well for taking it all the way back to Coco. Coco's 22 years old, only 22. And Alina to her credit is knocking on the door of top five. Like, and it's tough. It's, it's, it's tough waters up there. Like,

You need to, those women are all maximizing. And then their limitations are just fewer.

Torrey Hawkins (21:17.13)
Yeah. Right. A few more and as you said, three more inches. But you heard right here on clay, Alina moves well, she strikes well. She's gosh, just a really good match today is all I have to Great tournament for her in general. Great tournament.

Alvin Owusu (21:33.941)
Well, I mean, let's not even talk about the tournament. Let's talk about the first half of the year, right? semi-final, I'll show you it up. Final of Dubai, semi-final of Indian Wells. And now she wins Rome. yeah, that screams top five in the world to me. Like.

Torrey Hawkins (21:40.468)
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah.

Yep.

That's That's why I was thinking she might have been fired. I'm like her results so far this year, know, only thing, only thing I got to think is she must have defended a little bit the year before or something, but, or the year's not finished, right? Because there's still a lot of, we're not even at our second slam yet, right? So, you know, there's, there's a lot, a of, a of a year left, you know what I mean? As far as, as far as tennis is concerned, but I was just really impressed with the body of work that she's been putting together lately. She's playing inspired. She's playing like she's just, just so clear, so clear.

Alvin Owusu (22:01.406)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (22:19.18)
of mind of where she's going with the ball. My same thing about the option one, two, three, and we'll hopefully talk about that more tomorrow. She is seeing which one will hurt you the quickest. She's leaning on you. She's, as you said, she's consistent first and now she can strike. And so now she knows when to roll. She knows when to reset. She knows when to drive. And I felt like even as the match wore on, Coco burned her a bunch of times with the dropper early. And then at that point she kind of realized, okay, I have an answer to that drop shot down. And I think she won.

almost every one of those net exchanges, you know, off the drop shot, off the camera drop shot, and because she has pretty good hands in volleys, Coco tended to go option one, and there was Alina waiting on her with the reflex volley going open court. So it was just a really neat thing to see, and again, I just, to her credit, hats off to her, played a played, had a great wicket tennis, and to Coco, you know, the real consolation is, and you will only get better from this, you know, having suffered this

you will only get better going forward. Starting to realize more your options. know what I mean? Start to realize, you you can do more than just retrieve, you can do more than just hit option one better than most people or read their option one and counter better than most people. You now can dictate play and again, that comes with a learning curve, but she will have that ability, I'm sure of it.

Alvin Owusu (23:42.155)
Yeah, and we'll zoom out a little bit here and this is our last major checkpoint. know a lot of the, there is another tournament next week that a lot of the cutoff for this 500 is kind of insane right now. We've got.

Torrey Hawkins (23:56.298)
What is it like like like like like like like 55

Alvin Owusu (24:01.483)
I mean, it's Strasburg and you've got players like Putinseva in qualifying, Oliyankova, who I think is like 60 in the world in qualifying, Avalise, Talia Gibson, like all these women who are right around like 50 in the world, they're not getting in. And that's a 500, so there are a lot of players, hell, even like Yashremskaya and Krijikova dropped into a 125 that just finished up.

Torrey Hawkins (24:12.104)
I was gonna say, is it 55 in the world? Is it top 50? Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (24:20.808)
and cute.

Alvin Owusu (24:30.635)
So like everyone's trying to get their final tuning in here before before going to Paris Which brings me to another point make sure you like and subscribe because we're gonna be putting out a lot of interesting stuff throughout the course of the Grand Slam in the and the 100 days of Grand Slam summer as I like to call it There are roughly 100 days between the start of the French open Through Wimbledon and then the end of the US open so a lot of we got three Grand Slams in a very tight period and you'll be seeing a lot of our faces

So yeah hit the subscribe button all that good stuff. But as we as we zoom out on the women's side, I think Is an interesting tournament. Obviously we lost arena early which You know, I talked about a little bit earlier this week. Like if she's if she's hurt, that's one thing I mentioned that the the peak for women generally between 24 and 27 and and arenas have link it is 28 years old so

you know, not to reach her at a different, the same topic, but like, you, I'm not gonna say concerned, right? It's hard to say that I'm concerned based upon what her track record has been. And you know, two tournaments is, you know, she lost to Haley, Herculean effort, and she had her chances. She was inches away from winning that match, right? And then loses early in this event to Serrano Cristea and was not, you know, physically all there, but.

Torrey Hawkins (25:37.002)
Thanks for

Alvin Owusu (25:55.945)
when you start to look at what does the, when the decline happens, what will it look like? And the idea was probably like, you it might be an injury that keeps her out for a little longer than she wants it. And then she comes back and it's just not, you know, can't get to that highest of highs again, right? There's nothing in her game per se that I'm concerned about, minus a thing or two in that she's a kind of a coin toss.

Torrey Hawkins (26:02.346)
Sure.

Torrey Hawkins (26:15.432)
Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (26:25.122)
in matches that go three sets and towards the back end of that third set, she does not win as many as, I mean, it's like 50-50, quite honestly. the numbers, I don't know if it's even, if it's fading, I don't know what to call it. I'm just gonna say like the numbers are the numbers. And for a fairly dominant world number one, she's been world number one now for almost two and some change years, to only have four Grand Slams at the age of 28. And you start thinking about like, okay, if she's...

Torrey Hawkins (26:29.807)
Sure. She played a little bit physically.

Torrey Hawkins (26:36.104)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (26:54.566)
If we, we've talked, we've mentioned her in the same breadth as Serena Williams on this podcast, but I don't even see a world in which she gets to 10 grand slams. Like, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (26:59.476)
Sure. Sure.

Torrey Hawkins (27:05.125)
No, no, I don't either, but-

But I think it's in context, right? We called Harold Minor Baby Jordan too, didn't we? And I don't think he ever laced up a set of sneakers in a championship game. I say it to say the comparisons are the comparisons based on game style, not necessarily off of WTA record books and whatnot. And I still would say she's a modern day Serena, unfortunately, in a very unserena-like timeframe when there are so many other, if you will, Serena

Alvin Owusu (27:13.258)
Hahaha

Alvin Owusu (27:21.77)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (27:34.771)
Right?

Torrey Hawkins (27:37.308)
time players play in. So Serena was a huge quantum leap forward in lot of directions and you know we don't have to go back and talk about her storied greatness. It speaks for itself time and time again. I'm not eloquent enough to speak to it all but I would say that

to answer your previous question about what does the decline look like? And you're right in saying, you spoke correctly, it's just a matter of when, every player has that decline coming. I say it looks like this, Alwin, and we might be at the tip of the iceberg already. We're at that point where physically, I don't mean physically fading, I'm saying she fades, is what I'm saying. Mentally there's a fade. Physically, could be, but I also feel like she's at a point in her career where,

She has so much variety going already. The slice, the drop shot, the inside and forehand. She knows how to loop now. She can get out of her, get out of jams with her slice forehand, her utility knife, that I honestly think she goes into some matches thinking, I'm number one in the world. You're not. You're gonna choke this.

and I'm gonna be steady. I've blown so many of these matches trying to hit through you and have caved myself. I'm gonna put the pressure back on you to beat me. And I feel like that helped her win a couple of slams, helped her to be steady and have a steady hand. And now I feel like she's playing with other players who can also win slams and they are pushing her to say, you took your foot off the gas. Hmm, interesting.

And I feel that's the world where she is in now where I don't think.

Torrey Hawkins (29:19.634)
It's not that they don't fear her in terms of they don't know who she is. They just don't fear her in the sense of, can't believe I'm going three sets with Irina Sabalinka now. And they all feel like they deserve to be there. And that's the downside of having so much parity in the top 10. So in my opinion, I feel Sabalinka's decline as much as I love her, and I think she's still one of my favorite players to watch, it isn't a decline that you would think of her getting worse. They've gotten so much better. She is 28.

feel like the the she can no longer just outlast you she's going to have to

downshift, find another gear and go through you if she wants to have the same continued level of dominance and really dial in serve spots, really pick up a few opportunities to serve in volley when she can, take advantage of some these floaters, find another way. She holds serve pretty good, Alvin. She holds serve really well. Maybe it's the ability to get a few more breaks early and let the score help her a little bit more. I feel like she still, in my opinion, lets a lot of players off the

with some 1530s and 1540s and whatever happens. And the Haley-Baptiste match was just a red herring. I who hits a lob volley off the shoot tops for a winner down?

Alvin Owusu (30:42.378)
That mesh was insane. That third set was insane.

Torrey Hawkins (30:44.773)
That's a complete red herring. mean that game was a red herring. I even that double bounce in the second set or first set when she had the double bounce? I think it was in the second set. The double bounce on the drop shot get that she ended up overruling and she had to play it again. Even that. mean who does that? Coming off the heels of a double bounce overrule. You know what mean? So that kind of thing, that whole match was a red herring. I'm just saying that Arena has gotten away with and didn't need to beat you. She let you lose. I feel like now the rest of them are coming through.

are saying if you don't maintain this level we will catch you and at that point you you can't you know you can't if you see that car your rear view and it's getting closer you know by the time you hit the gas they passed you you know and that's really where I see that happening and so I'm she has another tournament or two to really kind of steady that whole thing and put her smack down for French and maybe even for Wimby but if it doesn't happen only more and more players will start to feel like they have a shot they deserve it

And Alvin, we still got four players who are coming up, pulling up the rear in Vicky Mboko, in Ivo Jovic, and we can't leave out Mira Andreva and give me another young start that was out there, starting to play some real good ball. You got these four coming up strong.

Alvin Owusu (32:03.946)
I mean, Nazcava is only 21 years old and she's 13 years 13 in the world. So.

Torrey Hawkins (32:10.842)
Amidst the current top five amidst a resurgent 10 plus with led by Belinda bench itch We forgot to mention her in that previous category, you know bench itch my girl Svetlana and And JPEG so Alvin this is and and and we can't forget EGA, know what I mean? So my point is is there's just gonna be more of them

And now they're coming at all sides. And that's what I'm trying to say. I don't think it's a classic decline in a sense of she's not that good anymore. No, everybody else is really good. And she can no longer have that margin of error where they will lose for her and give her some help. She will have to beat them. They're not gonna give it to her.

Alvin Owusu (32:53.866)
And I think that's the point about the other ones. It's not necessarily her, but if you think about the next three years of women's tennis, right? For the next three years of women's tennis, you don't know who's coming in, right? There are players who are 16 years old right now who in three years will be, let's say players who are 18 years old right now who are finishing up juniors and about to make it on the tour. There will be a player that we're not talking about right now that we will be talking about this time next year, and that player's probably 17 or 18 years old.

So let's say that she's 18, she'll be 18 to 21, right? That happens all the time. But in the next three, has happened, continues to happen. We weren't talking about Mboko until we were talking about Mboko and that happened quick, right? And now she's top 10 in the world. Right, Ivo Jovovich as well. But my point is like, in the next three years, Irina Sablevska is gonna go from 28 years old to 31 years old. Iga Sviatschek will go from

Torrey Hawkins (33:30.058)
Has happened, has happened. For sure, it be something.

Torrey Hawkins (33:38.103)
And name of Eva, name of Jovich.

Alvin Owusu (33:52.01)
24 years old to 27 years old so and I've said this before I'll say it again I do think we're going to get a part two of Egas career. I saw glimpses this week I felt even though she lost to Svetlana again, so Lena's played great She beat again three top five players in three sets in a row, right? So that's that's more her but what I saw from Ega is specifically what she did to Naomi What she did to JPEG?

Torrey Hawkins (34:02.576)
Thanks so much.

Torrey Hawkins (34:10.932)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (34:19.306)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (34:20.641)
She hadn't been a top 10 player in forever and she took JPEG apart like she was like lunch meat. But she's doing it with a stock ball. Like she is just letting her heavy topspin ball do the work. And if she's finding that and she's getting away from that, I'm trying to be a Lander or Bacchanal or I'm trying to be like Arena Side Blanket and she's just like, can move. Not many of you can move with me. I just need to make you, I need to make you work for it a little bit more.

Torrey Hawkins (34:29.289)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (34:33.556)
No. No.

Torrey Hawkins (34:45.994)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (34:49.417)
Now where i've got i've got real hopes for ega 2.0 And that is what did we talk about earlier if that peak range is 24 to 27 years old Guess who's walking into that right now. I guess we got tech again elena Especially on the clay, especially on the clay. I mean later back. She's two years younger than then uh, then Savalinka she's 26, but that's two whole years 26 29 is a lot different than 28 31 right and then Coco 22 years old

Torrey Hawkins (34:59.562)
Sure. I agree. It's special in the clay. It's special in the clay.

Torrey Hawkins (35:12.18)
Right. Yep.

100%.

Alvin Owusu (35:19.305)
Now we go 22, 25, she's just getting into it. And a Samoa 24 years old, 24. It's like it's, it's, I'm not saying that this is the, this is not the decline of arena sabalinka. This is just, it will happen. It happens to everyone. And they're right behind you.

Torrey Hawkins (35:30.698)
Oh, 100%. It's, how does everybody, father time, mother time, yeah. Yep, and, and buddy, they are, and they have, and they all have, they've all got daggers in their mouths. They're, they're, you know, climbing through the, climbing through the barbed wire. I mean, they are just, it's, it's gonna be a great time for tennis, as I say. It'll, it'll be, she'll be getting it from all sides. You know what mean? You can't go into a tournament.

You can't go into a tournament, you know, kind of looking down the draw. I mean, you've got to start going into tournaments thinking first round in, I got to take care of business and I've got to be sharp. I've got to play six phenomenal, not phenomenal, but pretty high quality matches because if I'm a little bit off my game, you know, if I'm a little bit off, I'm vulnerable. You know what mean? I've got to really, and in that way, the word improvement is Alvin, you're raising the level of your lowest day. You know, you, in that really, at the end of the day for these players, they're just, they have ways to beat you. have ways, plural, right?

of beating you and they have and their low end is typically your mid to high end and that's how you know, know, they can get past you not playing their best. So I agree with you. don't, I do think it started and it's not because of the losses. To me, it's because of her peak and what they're catching up to. I talked to a, it's kind of a similar analogy. I was talking to a track coach once about this and we were talking about speed and we're talking about just in general.

time I equated it to a top serve and he was talking about a sprinter speed and he says you reach a point where you are at max acceleration right he says what makes a good sprinter is how long they can hold max acceleration before they started to accelerate right and I thought that was for a serve right you know it immediately as a big server I see everything through those lenses and I'm like you know let's say my serve was pretty big back in the day okay it's at a certain point I can't serve much faster

Alvin Owusu (37:08.486)
it yeah

Torrey Hawkins (37:23.324)
Right? That's the max I can do comfortably without throwing my arm out and without losing control. At some point I'm going to break down my technique, trying it harder. I can try harder. I won't necessarily hit bigger, right? I'm redlining. But if I can maintain that serve speed...

for whatever length of time. Right? Now that's a different story. And if I can serve as big and as clean as I did in the first, as I can in the fifth, wow, now that is saying something. Right? So I have officially played zero, you know, best of five matches in my very not so illustrious career. So I say it to say, you know, and I was decent shape and had a big serve, but I don't know if I had the same serve. I played many three set matches because my three set matches were an hour and a half. You know what I mean? Because of just the length

Alvin Owusu (37:54.226)
Hehehe

Torrey Hawkins (38:09.398)
The point wasn't very long, but I look at that same thing now for her. Take the macro of that. Take the 10,000 feet view of that. Arena has been playing at pretty good physical and tactical advantage for a while. She cannot play much better. And now she is getting, I'm gonna say the word caught. I'm not gonna say past yet, but she's getting caught. The level is being evened and her level, they've caught her.

And it's just gonna be a matter now of can she continue to pull some of those close matches out like she did against Rebecca early in the year. And I think that tennis is still in there. I also think the flip side of those, the other, the 49 % of those three set matches, right, is also very close to her as well. And it won't take long, it won't take long. I could see if she won three, I'm just spitballing this number here, if she won three slams out of the next...

years, I would say that would be, I'm gonna go out on the limb and say that would be generous. Just with the level of competition behind her. There are more people now that can catch her. I'm not saying, I hope she wins six. I hope she wins as much as she deserves to win. I'm just saying three years ago, the competition was not as stiff with all of the two through. You know what mean? That's what I'm getting at. It wasn't near as, you know, she could bully her way through three years ago. She can't do that now.

Alvin Owusu (39:35.314)
Yeah. And you don't have to go back that far, right? Last year you would say that was probably peak Sabalinka at the age of 27. Peak Sabalinka. And what did she do? She finaled three grand slams, semi-finaled the other one Wimbledon and it took every time she lost. She lost Madison in the finals of Australian Open. She lost to Coco in the finals of French Open. She lost to Anna Samova in the semi-finals of Wimbledon and she beat, did she beat JPEG in the final of, no she beat Amanda.

Torrey Hawkins (39:43.754)
Right, right.

Torrey Hawkins (39:55.806)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (40:04.317)
She beat Amanda in the final of, finally U S open, but all those matches that she lost, they were all in three sets and they all took Herculean efforts by the other woman. He even go back to her final that she lost, the U S open to, Coco some years ago, a couple of years ago, right? Like it took everything Coco had and a little, a little just not closing the door by arena. And so with all those opportunities that have passed her while in her prime, I think that's the reflection. That's what the four grand slams is a reflection of. It's a reflection of just like missed opportunities.

Torrey Hawkins (40:17.364)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (40:31.626)
Right, right. She had some misapportances earlier on. And let's be fair, and she wasn't mentally there yet, right? She, to your point, 25. She didn't win one at 18 and had to find her footing again. She was still finding her footing in general. She was still figuring out who Arena is. And I think that's the piece, Alvin, again, to even go up to 50,000 feet. These peaks...

Alvin Owusu (40:34.493)
She was there.

I'll show it open this year. I'll show it open this year too.

Torrey Hawkins (40:57.938)
are not promised, how good you are. And I think that's what makes it such good entertainment. And you really can't put your thumb on any one thing. It's so many, it's a cacophony of several things happening at once. It's the other players whining down, Svidlena's whining down, you would think, and playing her best ball. It's a nascent player who's never really, probably hadn't beaten a lot of top fives in a Haley Baptiste.

Alvin Owusu (40:59.46)
Hey

Torrey Hawkins (41:28.092)
And that's, while random in some ways, that's always lurking. That player can have a good day. That's just tennis. And then you have the up and comers, the young tour we're talking about, we're gonna call it the young three. I'm sure there's four or five of them that we're not mentioning right now that are all coming. And you've got your current rivals. You can't knock out, you can't not say Ega's name when you mention the French Open. And the same thing, don't think Anissa Mouz hadn't played a tournament. I don't think she's played since.

Alvin Owusu (41:57.149)
Yeah, she hasn't played since... was it Indian Wells or last one? it Miami? Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (41:57.784)
what, Indian wealth?

one of the two, my point is, and hadn't played since, to my point, she's not going anywhere. I mean, it's not like when she gets healthy and maybe she's a little dinged up, gets back, gets healthy again and learns to, and she starts to develop a little bit of her game, get a kind of a second gear and figure some things out. She's only gonna get better. So that's what I'm saying. When I say you're getting caught, you're at a point now where they're catching you and now they're gonna, it doesn't make your four slams any less valuable. It doesn't make you less of a champion. I remember this happened

Speaking of a player that had a really, really strong start was one Venus Williams back in the day. I remember earlier she used to routine Serena in the early days, back with the beads and whatnot. But then one day Serena beat Venus. And I think had this epiphany, if I can beat Venus, I can beat all y'all.

Alvin Owusu (42:41.916)
Hell yeah, yep.

Torrey Hawkins (42:56.074)
in her own mind and then started going on a tear. And I don't think Venus ever thought she could beat her sister after that. And I say to say one a lot early, I think there was a period of time where I think Venus won maybe, I think she won Wimbledon almost every year for like three or four years. I mean, it was like she had it on lockdown. Nobody could beat her on grass. was just, she was too fast. She served too big. She could come forward. I mean, what did you do? What do you do with Venus Williams on grass? You don't. But at the same time, and then she was caught.

And then you gotta realize, okay, well what else can I do? Well at that point she couldn't do much else. She pretty much had maximized what she had. Still relevant, heck, she's technically relevant right now, but I say it to say, that happens. And once they kinda catch you, it's just very, very hard to get back into that winter circle after that.

Alvin Owusu (43:42.441)
And this happens, you know, not even on the men's side. Like we've talked about like some of the, some of the tables that Yannick center has turned against the, Medvedev's and the Zverev's like he was like, oh, and nine or oh, and seven against Medvedev until he wasn't. And then now Medvedev can't beat him. Like, so it's like it, it's all good until it's not, until it's not, um, we'll, uh, we'll, we'll switch gears here. I know we got, we have a lot to cover tomorrow in the, after the men's final, we'll do a, we'll do some due diligence there.

Torrey Hawkins (44:02.186)
What's not?

Alvin Owusu (44:12.25)
And then we'll get ourselves nice and ready for the draw show next week. It's going to be good. I'm excited. Th, you asked me when we got on what's going on with my shirt here. this shirt's got a lot of letters on it and you can't buy this shirt. You have to earn this shirt. I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you what happened to me this week. I did not tell you, I was going to call you, but I was like, you know what? I'm going to wait till we get on the podcast. So, for you listening at home, if you don't want to hear, if you want to hear no more, if you only came here for the WTA talk, we're done.

Torrey Hawkins (44:16.606)
Yeah. Yes, sir.

Torrey Hawkins (44:22.131)
Yeah!

Torrey Hawkins (44:27.179)
Ooh, okay. All right.

Torrey Hawkins (44:34.557)
All right.

Alvin Owusu (44:41.552)
But I'm going to tell you exactly what happened to me in my tennis journey this week. So we talk, you and I talk about rackets, strings, things like that often. I've been a Babylon user for, you know, since second year of college Babylon rackets have changed. I've changed. I've had some issues with my equipment and I'm wondering at this ripe old age of 43, like I know that I'm playing good ball. Is there something else out there for me that might be better for me right now?

Torrey Hawkins (44:49.342)
Yup. Yup.

Alvin Owusu (45:11.608)
RPNY stands for Roman Procus, Roman Procs New York. Roman Procs is a, one of the top five probably racket technicians in the world, has worked with likes of, I think I wrote it down here, Andre Agassi, Neboj Jokovic, Roger Federer, McEnroe, Nirvati Lova, Roddick, Francis Tiafoe. He was integral in Madison Keys' racket and string switch before she went on her run to win the US Open. So.

He is a bit of a whisperer, if you will. Like he has all this experience and has the ability to see you as a player and get a good understanding for your game and then translate that into the racket that you should be playing with and then getting down into the string setup and that whole deal. Right? Yeah. So Roman's, is a, it's a service that he offers, right? I did not go to New York. Roman has moved. He was lured away to farm and forge in Franklin, Tennessee, which you've probably started to hear about.

Torrey Hawkins (45:41.555)
Okay.

Torrey Hawkins (46:05.808)
Okay. I've heard about it. I got some guys that I know in the performance, UST high performance crew that were there. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (46:08.931)
Alright.

Alvin Owusu (46:15.496)
Yeah, they were just there. Melio Dan was just there. Uh, uh, Dasha was there a week or so before I was, we were texting about it. Um, so I, I made the appointment for what they call the racket evaluation, right? So I sent in some information and Roman and his wife, like their, their shop is now in this facility. This facility was, uh, it's a $200 million facility, billionaire investor who loves tennis. She's like, I just want this place to exist. Uh, outdoor red clay courts, indoor courts.

Torrey Hawkins (46:26.878)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (46:34.366)
Huge, huge facility out here. Right, it looks beautiful out there. Yeah, yep. Yeah. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (46:45.414)
Like, I mean, I'm getting... gosh.

Torrey Hawkins (46:46.75)
They got norms coming and everything. And now I'll talk to the guy. We did a USTA camp not long back. Me, I was there with Angie, Angie Haynes was on the pod before. He broke the whole thing down, just giving us pictures and all the rendering. It looks beautiful. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (46:59.384)
It's, you gotta see it, you gotta see it in person. So I sent him my information, like this is how old I am, this is my playing level, this is my experience, this is like I'm in pretty good shape, yada yada yada, this is what I've been hitting with and what I'm looking for is like something where I can feel confident about letting it go and getting there like when I'm rushed, specifically when I'm rushed by big hitters, like can I still get the tip of the racket around? That's kind of like what I left him with via email. So I get there.

Torrey Hawkins (47:17.236)
Sure.

Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (47:24.106)
Right. Right.

Alvin Owusu (47:28.84)
15 minutes early, you know, and I'm talking to him and his wife, Angelica. She's fantastic. Um, I feel like just from talking to her, like, I feel like she was a player back in the day too. Like, I feel like she knows her stuff. Um, so he gets, we're talking, he's asked me some more questions. He's got about 17, 15, 17 rackets already picked out. Right. It's him, his, uh, he, another stringer on his staff there. And then he's like, okay, so you're going to be hitting with a pro. So like that's the other, the other side of it is he has someone for you to hit with.

Torrey Hawkins (47:38.282)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (47:58.917)
And while you're hitting with them, he's gonna be subbing out rackets and also getting feedback from that pro. So the pro is very, very, the hitter is very, very integral in this process, right? He has to, he or she has to be able to push you and also change styles, like run you hot, has to be able to make a lot of balls, right? Like they need to be a wall with like sliders effectively.

Torrey Hawkins (48:07.978)
Sure.

Torrey Hawkins (48:14.282)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (48:18.826)
Yep.

Right, right, right.

Alvin Owusu (48:22.632)
And then it's because the impact, the real big takeaway is not necessarily how I feel, but also what my ball is doing to the person. Exactly. And they need to be able to, they need to be able to articulate that and give it to Roman who then like makes an adjustment and then gives me another racket. So of the 15 rackets, I ended up going through about 10 of them. And so we go downstairs, I'm getting, he's like, all right, we're going to start it. He's like, you're going to be, you're going to be hitting with former ATP 40 in the world tennis sanguine.

Torrey Hawkins (48:27.85)
how they're feeling your ball. Right. The impact that your ball is having on them.

Alvin Owusu (48:52.486)
And I was like, was like, so tennis works there now. They've got, yeah, he is from Tennessee. His brother, brother Davey is Travis's age. Yeah, so like, yeah. So I remember he was the little prodigy everyone was talking about running around the tournaments and then it worked out. But yeah, so I'm hitting with, I get out there and I'm like, okay, I'm hitting with tennis Angrin. This is gonna be fun. He's 6'3", huge. We get going. You know, you know how age does it to us. He's got enough, he's got enough.

Torrey Hawkins (48:52.537)
no way. Yeah. Nice. He's from Tennessee. So yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. He and David. Yeah, exactly.

But we slept. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (49:13.17)
Yeah, got a lot of hair.

Right, right, right, right, right. Right, right.

Alvin Owusu (49:21.0)
So we get, we get hitting. I've got my racket, my Babylon Piro, uh, 2023, uh, 100 and we get hitting like few balls. Didn't even start short, just went straight to the baseline. Start hitting, start hitting and tennis like, Oh, Oh, Oh, it's to be like that today. Like you, you, can actually play. so cause I'll go back a little bit. Roman's whole thing is like, he equates tennis players to golfers. Golfers would never just go buy a racket off of, I mean, go buy a set of golf clubs, uh, just off the rack. would, they would.

Torrey Hawkins (49:37.288)
Ha ha!

Torrey Hawkins (49:46.89)
100 % agree. Right.

Alvin Owusu (49:50.536)
go through a fitting session, right? And get, get the right club, get, they literally call it a fitting, get the right clubs for me and then make them fit for me, right? Lengths, pitches, the whole deal, right? They, they get treated like, they get, amateur golfers and professional golfers get treated the same. But in the tennis world, once you stop playing like junior tennis or college tennis, he's like, people always say, oh, I used to play. And it's like, no, no, no, no. He, Roman firmly believes that when you are a tennis player, you are a tennis player all your life. And

Torrey Hawkins (49:51.892)
For sure. They call it a fitting. They literally, yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (50:06.728)
good.

Torrey Hawkins (50:19.016)
Yeah, I like it.

Alvin Owusu (50:20.099)
As you change and as technology changes, it's more fun to play when you have the right racket for you.

Torrey Hawkins (50:22.686)
Yeah.

I couldn't agree more. Avail yourself to what the technology that's out there. Just find the right, find the right, what do call it, Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (50:29.914)
Exactly.

Alvin Owusu (50:33.991)
Right. It's for you. So we get started. I hit with my racket, get warmed up about five minutes. Um, and I'm hitting the ball well, th I'm like, I'm part of this is tennis. Like the ball's in my pocket and it's, it's got some heat on it, but I'm, like, I'm on it. Like I'm on it. And I was like, I'm tell, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And I'm like, Oh crap. I'm hitting the ball well today. This is, this is great. This is great. All right. Swaps it out. He's like, and then like the first five minutes are like, okay, obviously you're you're

Torrey Hawkins (50:44.05)
Right. Yeah. Right. You always play over pace. I'm sure that was actually, that's just what you needed.

Torrey Hawkins (50:55.816)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (51:02.151)
pretty high level player even for your age. like, he's like, some of these rackets we're just gonna steer away from. And like if I had gone through this process myself, I would have been looking at the E-Zone because they're popular or maybe the V-Core, yada, yada, yada. And he's like, no, you need less. You need a control racket because you can create enough pop. You need a control racket that you can trust and feel. So we end up going down this path. Like I hit with all the new Babylon 100, the new Pieraro 98. I hit with the Wilson.

Torrey Hawkins (51:30.982)
strike at all or no?

Alvin Owusu (51:32.548)
No, not the strike. those are only two Babylon rackets I hit with. We went into the, like the Wilson blade, the new one, a lot better than I thought it was going to be. that, that Wilson Python, that's not the Python, whatever that thing is hit with a couple of different heads hit with a slinko whiteout, you know, shouts to slinko. That's good. That's good stick. It's good racket. The whiteout was a, it was a, it was a near near number two, ended up with head speed tour.

Torrey Hawkins (51:38.504)
Right? Good.

Torrey Hawkins (51:50.29)
It's a good racket. The black and the white. Both good rackets.

Torrey Hawkins (51:56.883)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (52:01.778)
Yes, yes, yes, the black. Yeah, it's a great racket.

Alvin Owusu (52:02.075)
The new one, the black one. It's a great racket.

Torrey Hawkins (52:09.126)
All black, shiny. It's basically a better, heavier version of the white. Yes, that's it. And that's the new one. Yeah, you got the new one. Yeah, let's see, because the other one, the legend is all black. That's Novak's. I think the tour is what Yannick, or at least was playing with, is the old MP speed, right? MP tour. right,

Alvin Owusu (52:19.077)
It's the brand new one. Yeah, so this is the first year they've had the...

Alvin Owusu (52:29.669)
Yannick uses the old MP and the tour speed just came over. They didn't sell it in the States until this year. So this is a 16 by 19, 97 square inch. So it's small, but I was hitting with it at about, with a poly at about 50 pounds. And Roman's like, you get a shape poly in here, you can even drop down to 48. That's what you said, right? And.

Torrey Hawkins (52:41.084)
money.

Torrey Hawkins (52:54.762)
I said before.

Alvin Owusu (52:56.517)
The difference between hitting with a racket like this, a control frame with a little more pop versus my racket at night at 48. I went back at the end of the whole thing. get, I take, he's like, do you want to hit with your racket again? I was like, yeah, why not? Let's see what this feels like. It was like hitting with an unrest, like a messy trampoline. I was like, what the, the racket is like, it feels like it's bending all over the places. mean, I was like, this is a mess. This is a complete mess.

Torrey Hawkins (53:02.098)
Yeah. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (53:11.698)
I feel, I better feel.

Right.

Yeah, right. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (53:25.953)
and I had a couple of experiences over the last few weeks where I hit with some buddies and they both broke their strings. One of them uses a V core. The other one uses the E zone. And in both instances, they broke both of the rackets. I let them use mine and the drop in ball quality from their racket to my racket right after I was like, that's what you're getting from me. Maybe the, maybe there's something about the racket. And, and then when I got my hands on this one is like,

Torrey Hawkins (53:50.25)
That's right.

Alvin Owusu (53:54.748)
And that's that was it was like Harry Potter when you find your when you find the one the one finds you. It was.

Torrey Hawkins (53:58.888)
Right, the wand finds you. I'm so happy for you. I'm happy you went down in tension because I thought your tension was way too tight. And I'm also happy that you were having it because it, number one, you got to be hitting well to get the feedback, right? I don't care how, what you can do at that time, on that day. You want to get the most accurate feedback you can because lack of fitting, it is no small investment, right? I mean, I know some of these golfers.

Alvin Owusu (54:05.669)
yeah.

Alvin Owusu (54:12.017)
Yes, yes.

Alvin Owusu (54:26.151)
I'm not gonna give their price, because their price is listed online, was rackets worth of time. Let's put it that way.

Torrey Hawkins (54:31.918)
100%. And while it's enjoyment and it's quality and you're going to have that, the racket, arguably for the next three to five, it's still an investment. I think that's why they take so much time in the fitting in golf. I think tennis is the same. And let me say this for the viewers and listeners that are still with us.

Please, you may not be able to have, what's this gentleman's name? Roman, you may not be able to get Roman, I'm sure you'll put it in the comments and whatnot, but you may not have that ability or that time or what have you to go do that, but at least, at the very least, get with your club pro or get with somebody who knows what they're talking about and demo for at least, I say two weeks for most average players, Alvin, because...

Alvin Owusu (54:51.399)
Roman Procus and I'll link to the, Absolutely.

Torrey Hawkins (55:15.582)
You gotta take the range of your tennis into consideration. You have to take into consideration strings. It may take you the first week just to narrow it down to one racket. Or two. Then you've gotta narrow it down. Okay, now let me play with this racket at my tension that I like. And maybe even a different type of string or slash a different tension that I'm used to playing with because to your point, you're playing with a certain string with a certain type of racket. That feels very different even though you're used to it, right?

the ball hits with that string not necessarily with that racket. Now you got to get used to a new racket and string and then you can't do that in the afternoon. I can't tell you how many people I've seen, oh I got a new racket. Hit great with it on Monday. Went on and four of them and here it is Thursday and they got a tournament on Saturday. I'm like, wow why is he playing tournament? Because you made a major decision.

Alvin Owusu (56:06.311)
It's a major decision!

Torrey Hawkins (56:06.6)
You know, and you're playing a tournament four days later. What were you thinking? You'll eventually grow into the racket in three or four months. You know what mean? But it just takes such a long time. And so the fact that you were playing well, plus had Roman, plus had tennis on the other side of the net from you, you were able to condense that down within an hour or however long it took, right? Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (56:26.819)
It's it is it was an hour long session. that you can do there's very links I think you could do like for players above my level so like aspiring professional players super high-end juniors He'll do up to he'll do like four hours. He'll do like something in the morning. You find a racket He has he also will customize the racket We'll start messing with the specs a little bit to really get it like down down like my my the return on investment there is not that high for me, but I think that's biggest part is like

Torrey Hawkins (56:34.474)
Sure.

Torrey Hawkins (56:46.448)
I really dialed in, got really, really, sure.

Alvin Owusu (56:54.055)
You're not going to be able to go through this process. The only thing that ever changed in this hour was the racket and at about 30 minutes of like, like tennis didn't miss, which at a high, it was high tempo rally. And I was just like, my legs were cooked at about minute 25. And I'm like, Oh yeah. Cause he's not missing. There's a lot of balls. It's just a lot of balls. Um, but being able to zero out all the factors, right? All the other variables. it's like, cause if you, if I were to demo.

Torrey Hawkins (57:04.68)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (57:10.588)
Right. Yeah. Lot of balls, Alvin. Lot of balls.

Alvin Owusu (57:23.175)
10 rackets, it would take me probably two months, right? And then I'm gonna play differently each day. My opponent's gonna be different each day, right? Different courts, like I have courts that are fast that I hit at, and courts that are slow that I hit at, right? I bring the balls, they're gonna be different than what they, like all the variables change the whole experience, but to go through it quickly and get down to a set of rackets that like, I got down to three, like the one I chose, the speed tour, the Slink of Whiteout was next.

Torrey Hawkins (57:26.514)
yeah, yeah. Yeah, different players each night. Sure for sure.

Torrey Hawkins (57:41.748)
They do.

Torrey Hawkins (57:47.102)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (57:52.99)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (57:53.199)
And oddly enough, the blade, the new blade was right behind that. But the kicker was, and this is where tennis became so valuable. He was able to put me in different situations out of my strike, like out of my comfort zone, like out wide, up high. And those rackets, I was not able to maneuver well enough, as well as I was with the speed tour where I could still like, could flick at the bottom with that one. could, if it was up top, I could get it out of the way. was flexible enough to like just kind of slide behind it and still make it work.

Torrey Hawkins (57:56.52)
I can see that. I can see you like a blade.

Torrey Hawkins (58:06.473)
Run.

Torrey Hawkins (58:19.122)
Yeah.

Right.

Alvin Owusu (58:22.458)
So I think it was invaluable and I know that I was, I bought, I went through the whole process and I was like, give me three, I'm taking three with me. He's gonna have to ship them to me because he will match them for you as well, which is also invaluable. I got exactly the same. Like even with my spread of six right now, I know one of them is, I know one of them has a heavier swing weight than the other two and I bought it at a separate time. So it's a thing, it's thing. Dropping weight is,

Torrey Hawkins (58:30.036)
Yeah, I understand.

Torrey Hawkins (58:35.434)
All right. Well that way you got three of them the exact same. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (58:52.314)
like string tension barbage or dropping string tensions is really, really valuable if you have the right racket. It does not work. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (58:57.886)
right racket and string. Polly's especially, you gotta take a good poly down. If you swing at the ball, you know what I

Alvin Owusu (59:04.678)
If you swing at the ball, so that was the difference between the speed and the, my, and my arrow 100 is like, if I swing, if I dropped the tension to 48, which I've done and I swing fast, like just like, can't get it to do what it's supposed to do. And Romans gave me kind of the history of the pure arrow. I was like 2010, I picked it up for the first time and I loved it. He's like, yeah, that 2010, 2011 was perfect. And it's been, it's been a little wobbly since, and, the feedback that I'm getting from the current version.

Torrey Hawkins (59:27.016)
Yeah, it's modified since.

Alvin Owusu (59:33.367)
matches what he's telling me that he's talked to hundreds of players about. And then tennis is saying the same thing. It's like, it just won't lift when you lift. It always comes through a window a lot tighter over the net than you want it to be. And then you sail. And then you sail. But with this one, it's like, I can go flat, I can go heavy, and it's what I'm, my input is being matched in output.

Torrey Hawkins (59:41.332)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (59:44.874)
Exactly. Which makes you hit faster than you really want to. Exactly.

Torrey Hawkins (59:57.598)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (01:00:02.968)
And so, not guesswork, not guesswork. So, I'm excited, I'm excited, I'm excited. So I went and picked up a demo, because mine are, he has to ship mine to me, so I picked up a demo from Sirius Tennis, Jocelyn Sirius Tennis, on Friday, and got hit with it. It's gonna be a little bit of like, you know, getting used to, like I still can't, slice backhand is like, when it's on, it's on, it's there, but like finding out where that's like, where that clutch pops, like you need to let it go.

Torrey Hawkins (01:00:03.778)
Not guesswork. Exactly. I'm so happy for you. That's awesome.

Torrey Hawkins (01:00:30.378)
Yeah. Is it lower? Is it higher in the racket? Yeah. You almost need to go out and do a day of, as they would say in golf, day of just chipping and putting with it. know, just a lot of slices, a lot of drop shots, a of, you know, lot of can openers just to kind of get the feel. I will also tell you, and this is just the tennis side of that, I find the head racket benefits racket speed. So if you're trying to feel and finesse the arrow,

Alvin Owusu (01:00:33.688)
Right, yeah, all that stuff, you gotta...

Torrey Hawkins (01:00:58.408)
to me is actually one of the best slicing rackets for an oversize I've ever played with. It volleys very true, ironically, for a racket that big. And at the same time, you can barely hit it and it'll slice okay. You can slice it fast, it'll bite. You can drop shot okay with it if you have decent feel. The head rackets in general, if you have racket speed, the head rewards you.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:03.152)
Yeah, yep.

Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:01:25.382)
And if you have a poly, even more so. almost have, like your drop shots have to be hit fairly fast. I you got almost hacked a little bit.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:32.838)
I carved a few on Friday and I was just like, oh snap, like, oh yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:01:35.594)
and it'll bite phenomenal. But if you kind of block, it just, it's a little listless. It's just kind of a listless, whatever the word is. It doesn't do anything. So you can't, even your volley, you might need to give it little bit of extra on the volley. It's weird.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:48.774)
I gotta find the volley. I haven't found the, like, where does it wanna be on the volley?

Torrey Hawkins (01:01:50.954)
Yeah, you almost got to give it just a short slice in a sense. From what I've got, a lot of kids changing rackets. I have one that just changed to the gravity. One just changed, two of them just changed to the one. I don't if it's the tour. It might be the speed. I thought the heavy one is the tour. that the pro? Sorry. That's it.

Alvin Owusu (01:02:05.988)
MP.

Alvin Owusu (01:02:10.227)
The heaviest one is the Pro. There's a Pro and then the Tor and then the MP.

Torrey Hawkins (01:02:14.78)
Right. And one of them had just had, and one of my players got the legend, they got the speed, the all blacked out one. So, and I've hit with them myself. So I had a little more knowledge. I still like the old school prestigious myself. I can't hit with them anymore because I'm not as strong and not as mobile anymore, but I've come down to the radical and now shoot, I might be looking for an old blue bab. Don't sleep. You know what mean? The way I am now. You know what I'm saying? The blue bab is still money.

Alvin Owusu (01:02:19.334)
The black that one. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:02:39.774)
Hey, it's not a bad stick, man. It's not a bad, if I were feeding, I'd be on that blue bab.

Torrey Hawkins (01:02:44.784)
So I'm going the other way now, you know what I mean? But I'm just saying it's funny how the right stick is just, it's, you know, and I think that's the new thing, isn't it Alvin? You shouldn't have to make the stick work anymore, you know? And you should find the stick that works for you.

Alvin Owusu (01:02:58.595)
Right.

Exactly, and that's what I've told some friends about it and actually to the two buddies I was it with today They both went to Vanderbilt good good players. We all grew up playing junior tennis together And they were like, that's that sounds like a good and they're golfers as well They also play golf so they understand the fitting process and I have a feeling they're gonna be making a trip up to well They're going to Nashville anyways for so the full football game in the fall. So Yeah, so that was a that's what I did in the middle of this week made it

Torrey Hawkins (01:03:09.566)
Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:03:15.836)
yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:03:23.678)
Sure, sure.

Torrey Hawkins (01:03:28.222)
love it. RIP, not RP, RIP the Bab arrows.

Alvin Owusu (01:03:32.457)
It was a hey man, was, I picked up my first arrow in 2010 when I was with you at Windward and I just put down my arrow in 2016, it was a good run.

Torrey Hawkins (01:03:37.918)
Yeah.

It was a good, that's a good reign right there, the old Babs. And isn't it funny how I feel like the rackets and the strings both, they all kind of go through their iterations, but they also go through their times on top, don't they? You know what I mean? And I feel like, I know Carlos still plays with those arrows. He's got to play with an older arrow. Right.

Alvin Owusu (01:04:02.8)
He's got the 98 though, the 98's different. I mean it's only two square inches, like difference, but it is got a different setup. It's like a 1620. It's got a higher RA. It's a different racket. And I hit with that one as well. It's a different racket. If you gave me that one, it probably would have been fine. I would have thought it was fine. But again, going back to tennis' feedback, he was like, no your ball's better with that one. With the head that I ended up with.

Torrey Hawkins (01:04:15.21)
Yeah, different market.

Torrey Hawkins (01:04:30.408)
Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And that's what you could never feel, right? You could never feel what he feels about your ball. You know what I mean? And that's gotta be a great opportunity. So I've known Davey, and I see Davey still. David and obviously Tennyson, they were kids. I'll tell you a quick funny story about Tennyson. There was one day we were at Lifetime or, God, it had to be.

Alvin Owusu (01:04:36.326)
You

Right. Yeah, that's the kicker.

Torrey Hawkins (01:04:59.018)
It might have been old school RCS days, it even like, it's lifetime now obviously. The mom shows up.

Alvin Owusu (01:05:02.885)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:05:06.602)
And know, Davey obviously was going Travis' age, right? So I've known, know, the Sanctus for a while. And she's playing a tournament there and it's raining late at night. was about to close up, you know, like I'm always doing, one last lesson and she's, she kind of walks in on the courts and she's like, is it possible to just, is it possible to jump on these courts? I'm like, sure, was day before tournament. I know the kids coming out. She shows, she says, is there a way to get around back? And I'm like.

You remember the big barn at RCS. What do you mean get around back? What are you talking about? She's going to pull on the back four courts. not for those of us that know they're not all for tennis courts anymore there, but she wheels into the back with this old minivan she has. She has this little mini ramp and what does she pull out Alvin? A ball machine. Our ball machine and here comes tennis literally socks.

Alvin Owusu (01:05:38.286)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:05:57.126)
A ball machine, hey now.

Torrey Hawkins (01:06:05.8)
Like he's been, I mean his shirt looked like he slept in it for the last several hours on the way home and he's getting up, of waking up, kind of wiping the sleep out of his eyes and okay, And he gets a Gatorade in him and before you know it, Alvin, tennis sanguine is hitting on the ball machine like it's his best friend. And I'm like, I'm talking to the mom like, so this is his training program?

Oh yeah, all the time, ball machine. know, we can't, there's not a lot of hitters where we're from. And so I just invested in the ball machine. And so we take what's everywhere. And I'm laughing at this late. I'm like, well, that's a pretty good hack right there. I'm like, why didn't it was brothers? Well, brother better than he is. You don't hit them all the time at that time. You know, they was pretty good.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:44.485)
They're pretty good age difference. think they're 32 and 38 right now. So a six year spread is like that's, in juniors that's a lot. It was good. Oh, meh.

Torrey Hawkins (01:06:47.402)
Right, so it was a very big difference, right? And as you remember, David Sangren was good and tall and very good. And he didn't probably have a lot of rallies. So here's tennis going up. like, hey, screw you. I hit on the ball machine. You know what I mean? So I say it to say, when you say you miss a ball, and I'm like, I bet most don't realize tennis Sangren has hit more balls off of a ball machine than anyone you know.

combined. mean, because he traveled around. Next time you're there, ask your buddies and see if I'm right. Because it blew my mind that he hit that much off of it. And when I tell you he knew the patterns, he knew what to do, and I was like, this is the old school playmate, know, ball machines. This is years ago. And I was laughing at your comment because I'm like, he got that years ago. He was that kid you're talking about. We talked about this with Vidalina. Consistent and then got power.

Alvin Owusu (01:07:38.52)
He just said

Alvin Owusu (01:07:44.751)
and then got big and then got big. Yeah, he's a big dude. Like he's a big dude. He's retired now.

Torrey Hawkins (01:07:47.53)
He's big dude. He's where Davey was more of the bigger hitter that learned to control it later on. He was the other way around, which is why he got to 40 in the world. Maybe a little higher, 30? How high?

Alvin Owusu (01:07:55.845)
Yeah. Yeah, like don't, I think it was not, it was 40. I looked it up, it was 40, but like don't sleep, that's 40 in the world. Like that's a joke. That's a joke. Like that's joke. And I'm like, I'm geeked. I'm like, I'm hitting with, I'm fricking hitting with tennis angrin. And I mean, you shouldn't be surprised that someone who names their child tennis also buys a ball machine. Like, let's just put it all in context here.

Torrey Hawkins (01:08:03.061)
Okay, the sport of the world, bro, you know what I'm saying? Pretty good, you know what I'm saying? Last one check.

Yeah, yeah, oh, that's awesome.

Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:08:19.988)
Buddy, all in, sang it, we're all in. That would be phenomenal. I would love to ask him about that story and about his time on the tour and catch up on moms as well as Davey. See what Davey's doing these days. yep.

Alvin Owusu (01:08:22.554)
Maybe maybe maybe we'll have tennis come come on the pod and tell the story himself. That would be awesome

Alvin Owusu (01:08:35.022)
Absolutely, absolutely. think that's a perfect place to put a pin in it If you're still with us if you're still with us and you have not subscribed that's silly one two Yeah, we will stop now. That's three podcasts. I'm Alvin. That's Tory See ya