Why Clay Exposed Fritz, Pegula, and First-Strike Tennis at Roland Garros

Taylor Fritz and Jessica Pegula both exited Roland Garros in the first round, but this episode looks beyond the scorelines. Alvin and Torrey use those losses to examine a larger clay-court truth: players who rely on first-strike certainty are more vulnerable when opponents can absorb pace, change height, extend rallies, and force uncomfortable decisions.

The central framework is “time gained vs. time lost.” On clay, extra time is not always an advantage; it can become another decision. Players must constantly choose between shape, depth, drive, defense, drop shots, and transition. That makes Roland Garros a test of tactical range as much as form.

The episode also covers Daniil Medvedev’s clay-court volatility, hot Paris conditions, string-tension adjustments, the rise of younger men on clay, Frances Tiafoe’s clean professional win, Felix Auger-Aliassime’s five-set resilience, Haley Baptiste’s belief, Naomi Osaka’s opening-round problem-solving, and the broader scheduling pressures affecting Slam fields.

Transcript

Torrey Hawkins (00:00.184)
I'll still read a leave. That's fine.

Alvin Owusu (00:00.46)
That goes. Yeah. This is the best but this is the best three podcasts after dark. Alvin, that story. end of first round, French Open. we were sitting here debating about what to talk about because there are so many matches and yet nothing of note has actually happened. So we're just gonna we're just gonna we're just gonna roll 'cause I think TH has some stuff to get off his chest.

Torrey Hawkins (00:05.846)
I don't know.

Torrey Hawkins (00:20.364)
Very little get on my chest, but a lot of maybe a a handful of a meandering handful of insights. How about that? I like that. It makes it sound more professional. Alvin, the biggest thing that I take away from today, if I were to create another tennis, I'm gonna call it visual on the tennis channel, is shot selection. When you playing on the clay, as you know.

Alvin Owusu (00:28.056)
Tidbits. Some tidbits.

Torrey Hawkins (00:49.386)
It makes you have to play a little bit more three-dimensional chess. You've got the shape of the ball, choosing to go heavy, heck, even high heavy. As an extreme to buy back some time, you got your drive. Of course, you have your drop, which no tournament appreciates the drop shot as much as the clay, because of obviously of the the the depth of what you have to play on the court in the first place, the shape of the ball, pushing the ball up even higher, and so on. It literally makes you make decisions, literally ball per ball. And because the clays

with the friction you get so much more time but with that time comes a little comes another decision because if you obviously play in this person's hands the game is up and you get exposed yourself i would love to see

Two visuals. The first one is shot selection. The second, the second would be amount of time gained. And then at some point, you know, having a small little ticker on the side for time gained, time squandered, and then potentially time even lost, right? If you had a T and an A, right? On in a line right in the middle of us, right? And that ticker was, you know, if a a shot or two, you and I are rallying back and forth. That ticker's gonna be right dead middle. And there's it's it's negligible, right?

the the time difference is negligible and then at some point you hit a big lefty inside out I'm scrambling out to my out wide forehand can opener do I or do I get back in the point with that shot and then from that point do you stay quote unquote in the green or am I and while I'm in the red and so on and so forth. A momentum but but but but it can be quantitatively it can be quantitatively measured with time because it it's all about time at the end of the day

Alvin Owusu (02:22.862)
It's almost like a momentometer, if you will. Like it's a momentometer.

Torrey Hawkins (02:33.674)
I think you'd find why some of these players are so good on clay. I think you'd find how they have escaped the knife sometimes two or three times in a point. And then again, of course, over the course of time in that game, and let alone time in that set, you'd see what the player on the other side has to do to retake the time. I think time is such a very

It's such a very important element of the game that we all know and feel when we're playing and we all see it when we're watching, but it has never truly been, I'm gonna say, delineated as a stat.

Alvin Owusu (03:10.018)
Yeah, it's a it's a really it's a really nuanced thing. And I know we talked about it a couple of weeks ago on this podcast. it's it's hard to track. And, you know, that's kind of one of the things we try to we try to do here is so you know, let people understand the kind of the way that you and I both see the game and watch the matches and and time gain versus time lost. being able to quantify it would be I think that would be interesting. hard to do, but interesting. But almost like you could see you could see the momentum meter where like

Usually it's in the middle and then something happens and it slides a little bit towards one player side and and then it starts to slide.

Torrey Hawkins (03:45.194)
And and does it stay back? Right. Or does it slide back? And to me, the difference of a good match and a good rally is how much it is contested, right? Did it go back and forth several times? That's a good point. And it's gonna happen. I mean it's gonna happen regardless.

But to track it over time to me shows, hey, Alvin, you had a plus I'm just gonna spit out a a unit a numbers here. You ha of then let's say we're measuring everything in, you know, in tenths of seconds, right? You had a plus, you know, seven, you know, over your opponent on average, which means at some points you were ahead by a second and a half, you know, for the for the for a good chunk, which is a lot of time, Alvin, think about it. A second

Alvin Owusu (04:23.286)
No, it's a it's a ton of time. It's a ton of time.

Torrey Hawkins (04:24.866)
Huge huge amount of time and then the very and and and then the the longer four or five set matches clearly are gonna be just off of the just off of the aggregate, it's gonna be closer to, you know, to to five or and less. And that's how you know the matches were really tough. And that exposes your lack of big weapons.

it exposes your depth in the court. You're hitting the ball big, but you're 18 feet behind, not say 18, 8 to 10 feet behind the baseline, right? And so therefore you really can't have the same amount of of penetration as you would if you were further up on the baseline. But again, further up gets you more exposed if you if you guess wrong and don't split the bone time. So anyway, those are the things I I think. And that shot selection one to me is another one where if you could have a bit of a, you know, a almost a a spray pattern. You know the little symbol we had a lot of rain today in Atlanta.

Alvin Owusu (05:01.507)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (05:12.184)
And I'm always, I always like the little it's like a little, almost like a mini radar, it's like a sideways-facing internet, you know, fan, if you know what I mean, internet bars, you know what I mean, or should say Wi-Fi, Wi-Fi bars. And when you have an incoming storm, that little fan is gonna point northeast or is gonna point, you know, northeast or whatever. If that were to be visualized on a screen that could show your while it's your spray pattern, and then on and

Alvin Owusu (05:32.504)
Sure. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (05:42.026)
And then if if we were, again, you can't do it every shot, it gets too busy.

But if you could then show on the stat, okay, but that also opens up this spray pattern on the other side. You know, people tend to hit themselves out of their coverage area. And I think it happens on the clay just slow enough for the human eye to catch up. Those of us who've played at a decent level, coached at a high level, kind of understand we see it. And you can of course see it after it happens. Hardcore just happens too fast. I mean, I don't, you know, you can literally take a gamble every time you're on the run. And if you have the goods, you can you can convert because it's just too hard to catch up.

But on the clay, you see it happen a little bit more, I'm gonna say in real time. And so that kind of that shot selection meter and that time meter would be two things I would love to see in the breakdown. Because I don't think you really notice it until, and unfortunately, after that, the match is too late. And I think we think we're leaving a lot of genius on the table that hasn't been dissected because you can't quantify it.

Alvin Owusu (06:40.717)
Well, if anyone at HBO Max who's in charge of putting together, you know, stat packages, you know, if you listen to the podcast, you know how to you know how to get a hold of me. actually I do have a buddy Chris who is in he was pretty heavy in production for for HBO Max and he's in Paris right now, works on the French Open. So I'll send him a note. That's what they say in the business. I will I'll send you I'll send you a note. just some other random things that I I was thinking about today.

Torrey Hawkins (06:43.65)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (06:50.344)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (07:08.785)
obviously we finished all the first round matches. a decent amount of chalk, but we did you we did lose a lot of seeds, and that's I think that's important to to to kind of call out. I think on the women's side, the biggest one, like the American number two, Jessica Bagula out first round. You had you had pretty good eyes on that match. I did not see that one. but then the same thing on the on the on the men's side, American number two, Taylor Fritz also out in the first round, which I did see a lot of that match.

I would say same same same result for both players, right? Losing in the first round. I I Taylor has never he has never done well at this tournament, right? He lost in the first round last year. He came back this year. He's had one match played on clay before this and then and then lost to Nishesh Basaretti, who played an amazing match. really, really happy to see him finally you know, a few a few different cracks at the

at the top ten Apple and he finally finally got the right one. but that's very different to like Jessica Goula. I think some people had her going pretty deep in this event. you watched you watched the match, Jessica's match today. I'm I'm less bullish on Jessica Goula on clay. I think the way that she you know I've i I've I've watched her in person. I I've seen it with my own eyes and I still feel the same way. Like she at a certain level a good clay court player.

will not allow her to do the thing that she does well, which is hug the baseline, dictate from the inside out on a on a more lateral plane. If you get her up and out and start outside the courts, backing up, change the dynamics, like you mentioned, of that of that rally, it's a little bit it's a little different. You put her outside of her outside of her comfort zone. And I think you've seen that happen to her, you know, here a decent amount. It happened last year as well. She lost the Lily's Poisson, which were combination of a different different

Torrey Hawkins (09:02.924)
Poisson. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (09:04.95)
cocktail, but still the same result.

Torrey Hawkins (09:07.864)
Very similar. And I feel like the irony of this match is I felt like a few just early unforced errors.

cost her and third let's not forget she steamrolled Burrell in the first set six one so it wasn't it wasn't like she was in trouble. I think the girl got online and back to what I'm saying, Alvin, about that time differential and then started dictating the time. I thought the third set was just a little bit of either maybe she was maybe she's a little sick, maybe she's dinged up, not sure, but it looked like on several occasions, several points, she just looked like she didn't have nothing to tank. And again

Alvin Owusu (09:21.761)
That did happen.

Torrey Hawkins (09:45.802)
not not Barrilla's fault, but certainly JPEG did not look like she had she was fighting with all the weapons she normally comes to the court with. I agree with you on her style of play. I I'll just give an example of what I'm speaking of though. I would have liked to see more JPEG style tennis. She was down 4-1, I believe Alvin, in the third in the third. She brought it back to four to four three no it's four two, sorry. Brought it back to four all within with within less than five minutes. I mean striking the ball, tagging the ball had

some big returns and hitting her classic hit through the court kind of ball. And I think some of the rallies didn't last four or five shots. So I say it to say maybe I I feel there was something more at play there. I've watched Jessica play a lot over the years as well, as you have, and just didn't seem like did it didn't seem like she was getting so much outplayed as it was she doesn't she didn't seem like herself. Hats off to Borel who played a phenomenal match and was able to as much as she needed to shape, control the point, dictate

Jessica's not the best counter puncher. She's certainly not a counter punisher. She's played, she plays downhill very well. And when she has to defend, obviously the same thing I'm talking about, my little time meter, you would have seen the time meter go against her quite a bit for the majority of that third set. So and obviously pretty even in the second. I think they went up to a breaker in the second. But it's just one of those kind of matchups where that player on this surface poses a huge threat to a perennial top five in the world.

You know what I mean? That just shows you how different the services are can change the dynamics of a match. And that's and that's one of the reasons why we love the French.

Alvin Owusu (11:23.253)
Yeah, and you know, in Kim Barrel is I'll I'll give her some props. She hasn't had the best year so far, but I mean she's a top one hundred player, right? She I mean, she's typically around, you know, she has pushed top players before. she's gone deep in one thousands before. Like so it's like she's not a nobody, but that's that's that's what happens here at Grand Slams.

Torrey Hawkins (11:44.076)
Right.

Yep, very skilled and and and and played played ahead extremely well. played the right kind of style. You know, she was patient from deep, and then she was aggressively coming forward when she had Jessica on the run for the second ball. It was kind of fun to see. It's almost like she played two different styles in one. She grinded, she looped, she rolled, she counterpunished, and then she had then she finished off a swing of volleys. I mean, it was a it was like it was a it was a very good, she just did a great job, but anytime she wrong footed Jessica.

Alvin Owusu (12:05.249)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (12:15.138)
was great to see. I mean the one I think we we gotta talk about, Mr. Merk Mr. Mercurial himself is Mr. Daniil.

Medvedev who's who who let's face it, Alvin, especially as of late, he has been very hot or cold and when he's hot, he's unbelievable. And when he's cold, he can lose he can lose to anybody first round. If you gave me a top you gave me the the best former Grand Slam champ who I have the chance of of not me, a player has a chance of beating in the first round of the of Roland Guerros, his name would come up first. I mean, it's just, you know, and and probably Taylor coming up, well, Taylor hadn't won one yet, but

just saying because of just how up and down he can play and we saw this in Australia last last few years we've also seen this I think he's lost several first rounds of the of the French too Alvin over the years he just he can come out of the gate a little slow and his ball being so unorthodox you know it it's it was fun it was funny to hear him make a couple of comments about how he wasn't able to find the court and I find that such an amazing thing but it also goes back to his very unorthodox styles.

So when when he isn't finding his rhythm, when he's not finding his range, it's very easy to see Daniel, you know, can be can be a little off. And you know, typically he finds your rhythm. He finds rhythm off you, he finds rhythm off the the cleaner, bigger, heavier, cleaner ball striker, and he just plows through on your stroke. You know, and now obviously when he doesn't get that same ball, I think he almost does worse in a first round where he isn't getting one of those kind of guys' balls. And that again, the the the the the the effect on him

obviously wasn't great. And so therefore he was unfortunately taking a premature exit from from Roland Garros. So again, I just feel like the clay does things to people and and I really hope that our viewers and listeners at home are are are are tuned into that. I think sometimes we can watch it and not necessarily understand understand why it's so different.

Torrey Hawkins (14:14.846)
It's it's different for a lot of reasons. you mentioned the weather. I let you speak on that, but the weather can can play a huge part. the clay plays very differently in in various in in different temperatures. obviously the the player's ball itself, you know, is very different. Guys that plow through the ball, you know, get a little better penetration, they don't have the same shape, they lose time. Guys with a lot of heavy are are actually okay. and and big servers tend to be, you know, I don't care how big the serve is, i if I can stand back an extra eight feet, I got an extra two seconds of time.

I mean, I can hit that ball back bigger. And the guys like your Sheltons, like your like your Fritzes, who are used to getting some first track tennis and shortening points and maintaining control of the serve, can't do that on McClay. And at least not as easily. And I feel like that was that's kind of what you know, first few rounds always lets that have makes that big server have to win another way, win longer, win, you know, his his time on court's a lot more, his his link point is a lot longer, right? And they as a minimum.

Alvin Owusu (15:11.54)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (15:14.81)
Grind to get used to. Nothing's wrong with your serve. It's just the surface. And then the heavy player who's used to not being in points, you know, shot by shot six, seven, eight, is finding his groove in shot six, seven, eight, and starting to starting to really swing, you know, from the ground up. And then, as I say, and then you've got some of the players that, you know, whose game tends to travel pretty well on all surfaces, and you you almost take it for granted because you think they're just good. And they are good. But do you know why? You know why? Because they have several.

different ways to beat you and that's why they look so good all the time and most players don't have that. That's that's the what what's the word that that's the exception, not the rule. You know what I mean?

Alvin Owusu (15:55.947)
Right. And I think I you can even put Taylor Fritz in that. I know you kinda whispered his name earlier, but you could put him in that same category, right? Taylor is extremely good at playing Taylor Fritz tennis. And Taylor Fritz tennis has gotten him to the highest what five in the world. I think he was f maybe he might even have touched four at one point. but if and that that Taylor Fritz tennis is very much so first ball, first strike, trying to dictate with the forehand, going big. but

Torrey Hawkins (16:24.152)
Rinse and beef. Right, right.

Alvin Owusu (16:25.876)
Rinse and repeat. Right. And and it's and it's almost a it's a it's it's attrition, right? Like i y he will make enough first serves and get enough first four hands to over time you like and he serves quite well at a very extremely high rate, on the first serve percentage. So over time that usually is enough to to get him through, right? And

Torrey Hawkins (16:43.596)
Yeah. As as history and stats and records have shown, right? I mean he's you know a hundred percent.

Alvin Owusu (16:48.574)
i the the works the work speeds for itself, right? But i i in his match against Nishesh it was like i he was hitting but like i it just couldn't he couldn't he couldn't quite hit Bossa Freddy off the court because of the clay, right? The clay makes you feel like you're hitting uphill a little bit or you're hitting with a a wet ball and, you know, we can we can talk a little bit about the weather here. It's it's been hot, right, which changes

changes things tactically, technically, and we'll we'll get to that in a little bit, but I just saw I could see Taylor playing Taylor tennis, but if you if you can run down enough balls and then take your opportunities when you get them, which is what which is what Nishesh did, it can that match could have gone either way. It could have been three sets to one Taylor's in Taylor's way. maybe w hell we played three stri three tiebreakers in that match, I believe it was.

Torrey Hawkins (17:42.05)
Right, right.

Torrey Hawkins (17:46.39)
Yeah. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (17:47.574)
So like seven seven seven six seven six six seven six one? Yeah. So, you know, thin margins, but you know, so it goes. And that that makes the the weather part a little bit interesting. So it's been it's been uncharacteristically hot in Paris, and I think like touching ninety degrees Fahrenheit some days. And that is, you know, in itself, that's hot.

Right? If that's Australia, it's hardcourt, magnify that by fifteen degrees, it's hot. Same thing in the US at the US Open, it's it's you we're talking about hardcourt here, asphalt, it's hotter. But I think the biggest issue that the players are running into is the heat is so different than what they've played in to this point. Right? They've been in, you know, Hamburg or was there tournament in Basel last week or or is it probably Geneva. It was in Geneva, not Basel.

the w some of the women were in Strasbourg, like, you're talking a twenty degree difference here. and which which on clay matters because you're there's a certain game style that you're trying to that you're forced into when you're playing on a clay court surface that is, you know, it's cold outside. It's a little bit it's very slow. But as soon as that heats up, it balls are coming through the court quicker. The math changes a bit and you're not to mention like the

the adjustments you need to make with your with your equipment, right? You've been sitting at a certain tension for, you know, X amount of weeks now and and now we've gotten to a out of nowhere hot condition. Gotta tighten up a little bit if you wanna put the ball on the court.

Torrey Hawkins (19:27.682)
Tighten up strong. The clay and the clay plays

extremely fast, you know, when you when that when the temperature heats up. one of the players made a comment it's closer to playing on silk than it is playing on dirt. And and I thought that was a good you know the the terabyte too is a little different than our clay over here. It's not not so granular. A lot more dust a lot more and and so fast crazy fast. I mean you'll you'll see more buggy whips in this surface than anywhere else in in the world. May maybe the grass. I mean on on a especially in the ear early parts of the first week of Wimbledon. But very very tricky. And then it after they water it

down or in the morning or after it's rained or whatever, very slow. I mean, like you can't get the ball out of the service box. I mean it's it's such a such a difference in and you know, I think one of the competitors made a comment about how the stringer, I think it was Jim Currier, made the point that there's the stringing camp has been extremely busy, you know, because everybody's, you know, coming in, changing rackets, literally on the fly. I mean, they're like, whoa.

So it's to to your point, you know, you've you know not only the twin the the the the current heat wave, but also, you know, if I out if I play eight feet behind the baseline with a heavy ball, I want my tension down low. You know, I w I wanna get free power.

But when that ball starts sailing on me, the first thing I'm gonna go change is my racket. Now I probably don't have too many rackets in my bag that are all at different tensions by design, right? So now what do I go to? they say Ivan Lindell famously had 10 rackets in his bag and he had two at

Torrey Hawkins (20:59.222)
five different increments of two pounds. So let's just say his range was fifty to sixty. He had two at fifty, he had two at fifty two, he had two at fifty four, and so on and so on all the way to sixty. And so his whole thought was

I'm going to adjust with my racket, not me. If I'm a little tight, I'm gonna get a loose one out. If I'm spraying the ball and the ball pretty big or or conditions a little bit off, I'm gonna I'm I I always got two in my bag, you know, just so I can always go down two. Curry made the point that reminded us Pete would keep his rackets in the cooler, slashing a little in the little fridge in the room to make sure he didn't lose any tension, traveled with a stringer. Obviously he was he was of the means and of the grand slams to to be able to afford a

personal stringer to keep his gut tight on on those on those Wilson Ultras but at the same time you can appreciate how some of the guys that are really meticulous about their equipment they kind of know these things and they know how they play and some of the guys some of your more rank and file that are a little more I'll adjust to see how I feel tomorrow are are gonna have they're gonna have to make an adjustment very quickly and that may be a set of tennis. You know that that may be a maybe a set too far. So I I agree with you. The the weather's a huge thing and as you know it's Paris. It could that could change tomorrow. You know it won't but I mean

it could be I think you said it's gonna be hot the next few days and then who knows the second part of the week could be could be a little rainier and you know and and a lot slower. So it's again it it's funny how much how many adjustments you have to you have to have and on the surface and again to the untrained eye you wouldn't realize it was that big of a deal.

Alvin Owusu (22:32.799)
Yeah. And you also think go think back to like Ralph and Adal at at Roland Garros, right? You have this picture in your mind. There's a good chance that picture is not of him playing at night because he preferred fast clay courts. Like the hotter, the better. The more his balls taking action, getting through the court faster. it's just one of those things that it's it's when we get into these natural surfaces, right? The clay and the grass.

there are a lot of things at a at play here that are not just how well you hit the ball or how well you're playing that day. There are a lot of, you know, adjustments, micro adjustments, macro adjustments even to be made throughout the throughout the fortnight at these at these Grand Slams that it it all it all matters and I think it's even on on the women, at least the men have, you know, time within each match, to kind of like figure it out because we are playing three out of five with the women.

Like if you come out, like you said, if you get down a a set early because of you know, you haven't made the adjustment, yeah, you're you're back against the wall here trying to keep yourself in the tournament. and yeah, and if you don't figure it out in the next 20 minutes, you're you're done, right? You're done. wanted to kind of get to some of these matches that not I obviously a lot of matches have been played. I can tell you there've been 128 of them have been played on on the men's and women's side. so obviously we're not gonna go through all of them. kind of macro

Torrey Hawkins (23:37.644)
Have half nice gone.

Alvin Owusu (23:58.549)
Though I've been really impressed on the men's side with what I'm calling the young guns, like the Hodars, the Fonsecas, the the Prismiches, and Boss of Retti, Kuwami, even like these guys who have, you know, they at one point or another, especially the Hodar, Fonseca, even even Prismich, if you go back to him coming out of juniors, like he was touted as like the one, right? It's nice to see these guys who have had such great clay court seasons, right? Dino

beat Novak in R was it in Rome? It was in Rome or is it Madrid? I can't remember. One of the two tournaments. it was Rome. it looks a like like him. I mean he's Croatian but not Serbian. He

Torrey Hawkins (24:37.11)
goes wrong. And and he plays a lot like him, by the way. Looks like him plays like him. He's like he's like a mini he's like a mini me in in a lot of ways and it's it's funny to see him play out.

Alvin Owusu (24:47.262)
Yeah. It and it's cool it's cool and and they're and they're close, but you know, and then he and then he kind of has built on it. Like I think I think Prismich had a good Madrid and then got Novak early in Rome, took him out. But to see him take that that kind of momentum and then bring it into Paris, like I love to see players come out of one tournament where they did well, step into the next tournament and get right back to business. Like that's one of those things where I see a guy make a

quarter final or semifinal run in a one thousand and they show up the next week and boom, I'm right back into it. Love to see that. So for these the you know, these guys Hodar thrashing in in his first match, right? Which is his first time playing at Roland Garros. Like he looked like he looked like someone who expects to be here in week two, which is really cool to see. Fonseca did not play amazing tennis in his first round match but got the job done, which is also a sign of a, you know, some maturation. You'd like to see that.

Torrey Hawkins (25:44.994)
Bad day, a hundred percent.

Alvin Owusu (25:45.971)
And and then like he and Prismit are gonna meet in the second round. so that probably will happen if you're listening to this. It's probably happening right now, or you already it's already over, but with the winner to play potentially Novak in the third. So it's it's it's just kind of good for tennis. Landoluce won in five sets today. Kuwame, like nice little passing of the torch here with with Gael hanging or playing his last French open and Kuame stepping right in.

Torrey Hawkins (26:09.056)
Really?

Alvin Owusu (26:14.376)
You know, another another brown brother from from France, like don't he's like, Chill, I got it. Pass the baton, I'll keep running. And extremely.

Torrey Hawkins (26:16.535)
Yeah.

Yeah. Big shoes though, but I'm but I'm I'm I'm all about he I think he's got the speed part down. That's that's for darn sure. And and the love of playing in the crowd. And so those

Alvin Owusu (26:29.971)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (26:31.232)
Those two are are fairly rare. And man, I every time I watch Gael, I just remember Summer of O four, man, out there with the with the players, but watching that brother do some things on the court that I hadn't really seen done before and probably haven't seen done since. And so I'm a very I'm very I get a little emotional thinking about Gael and some of the things that j just his love of playing and his love of competition and I and I think that if you are you spent any amount of time

watching him, you know, you you know what I'm talking about. I just happen to watch him more than most because I saw him basically grow up a little bit, you know, the last two years of juniors from basically two to you know four and then obviously the handful of days on the tour. So that's he as much as I love Kwame I think great great talent great speed and I love his overall attitude I I just have to make one quick point about my main man Gael and

Brother, you will be missed and you will be you are one of the best have ever done it, to lace them up in the in in France. And it's just great to I remember the tournament. You were about to get

Flown back to Paris in the in the Australian junior in in 04 and you end up going on having the had the year of your life and end up in juniors anyway, and ended up beating your fellow countrymen in the final and as they say the rest is history. people may have forgotten about Jocelyn Juana and you ended up stealing the being a close that close from going home to being tennis icon. So that that alone shows the kind of g Gael Monfiz effect on things.

And we I am I am better to have watched you, known you, and and have seen you play. So you know hit us up. You you have to come on the pod. Have to come on the pod one day and and share share some of your wisdom. He's not, he's not, but it's his last French though, just saying.

Alvin Owusu (28:19.668)
Hm. Like

He's not done yet though. I mean it's his last French open, but he's still got a he got you know finish out the finish out the side here. and then kind of, you know, some of our higher seated men, obviously we mentioned Fritz going out, Medi going out, FAA was trying to go out. and we already we're already pretty depleted of our top in talent on the men's side in this tournament with Carlos and and and Lorenzo being out and Arthur Feist being out. It's like

Torrey Hawkins (28:45.581)
Yeah.

And so

Alvin Owusu (28:52.188)
Now we're losing, you know, we're losing seeds, top ten seeds left and right. And Felix was able to, you know, do something that he doesn't normally do, which is stay tough in these, you know, in these five set matches and he didn't fade. He he hung with it.

Torrey Hawkins (29:05.706)
Fade Alvin. He hung with it. He broke back. And Alvin, he played that dumb drop shot half volley on the backhand with two hands, I might add. And ju and I said, God. I had a flashback of of some of his some of the sand that has slipped through the fingers over the many years. And Alvin, he stayed tough. I was like, that right there shows how much he's improved, how much he's grown.

And he even smiled, Alvin. He smiled at that moment, as if to say, wow, that was a bad decision. And shook it off and then played you know, even the breaker. I thought he had some, thought he had had a had a commanding lead and then kind of, you know, kinda pissed a few points away and then came back and finished strong. So I was very happy to see the maturation of FAA.

Alvin Owusu (29:54.847)
And then kind of on the st still on the men's side, kind of rounding it out. there's a couple players I was seated players that I was impressed with. Rublev, Lerner Tien, and then I'm gonna say Friend of the Pod. We talk about him a lot. Francis Tiafo. Francis Francis had a tough match against Elliot Spazieri, and I say tough because I w we all know

Torrey Hawkins (30:12.344)
Francis.

Alvin Owusu (30:22.28)
you we know Elliot Spraziri from his almost his almost win over Yannick Center in Australia, introduced himself to the the tennis world, has been injured for the vast majority of time between that event and this event. but he one thing I guess Mr. Spozziri does is he shows up and he makes balls and he fights. Right? And Francis didn't do anything flashy in that match. He just took care of the tennis match. Like he just it was a pr my buddy Jerome was

Texted he's you know, Big Foe doesn't look doesn't look like Big Foe anymore. I'm like, No, that was a that was a fantastic win. That's a that's a first round professional win. Just get the job done. Live to play another day.

Torrey Hawkins (31:01.496)
job done. Like like the Knicks in game one against the Cavs. You know what I mean? And and and who knows what can happen your next couple of two or two matches. You'll be seeing Elliot Who in a in a couple of rounds. So I I thought it was a good match as well. To your point, Swazier is not the kind of guy you want to play an off day.

It will make you pay. He'll make you run. And back to that that time on court, that length of playmeter. I've been looking at some of the stats on the app, right? On the Roland Garrett's app. I think it's like shots one through six and then shots, I guess it's six through twelve. I'm I'm I'm spitballing, but I think it's something like that. Then it has like shots 13 plus, right? And so they kind of show you a graph of and you can you can get a pretty good snapshot of of of the match, especially a longer match, especially when those stats look pretty lopsided. You know who's playing first strike tennis, you know.

know who likes the long grindy points, right? And you know, Spaziri all day is gonna live in that in that moment. And again, the clay takes just a little bit of MPH off of Francis's shot. And that time is easily soaked up by Elliot. And I just thought, you know, Elliot's played top before. You know, obviously he played him very tough. And so he's in that moment and he's trying to find that next good win for somebody. He's lurking in the shadows. I was like you, I was worried about him in that match. I was worried that this is not the kind of guy

This is similar to Basaveretti and and and and Fritz. This is not the matchup favors Basaveretti given the given the surface given

Alvin Owusu (32:26.793)
The surface, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (32:27.798)
Given the the health, right, and and so on. And I felt like if if Francis had had if he had been sloppy, that thing could have gone five and at that point, who knows? And and and this is what happened to Francis a few times. This happened in last year in the French, I believe. A couple of early five setters, and that kinda did him in. You know, he made a big commitment this year to get his fitness back, but I feel like a lot of it happened to be he just went five too early in some rounds where he probably didn't need to and just got a little sloppy, and that's why he ended up expending energy, right? in the first few that he probably would have been.

and better served, you know, doing that, having that go into round four and five round four and and quarters then as opposed to and and to stave off some you know some threats in the first two rounds.

Alvin Owusu (33:08.777)
Yeah, that's one of the things I like to keep an eye on on the men's side is the those guys who go five early. It's like you can probably survive a four setter. Five in the first round, ooh. Heaven forbid Yeah, heaven forbid you go four or five again in the next. It's like you're you're you're cooked. Like so I'm I'm I've got my eye on Francis. I mean not Francis part of me, FAA. Got my eye on you know, Davidovich Pikina also went five. He looked out of sorts out there and then

Torrey Hawkins (33:20.706)
Let's go.

Alvin Owusu (33:38.6)
Some people's, you know, Casper Root is is favored by a lot of pl a lot of people to go deep in this tournament. Mess around a go five and it's yeah, it's it's managing your way through a through a grand slam on the mid side because of the scoring format does it's another factor. It is a is another it's another factor. Add that in.

Torrey Hawkins (33:42.082)
Ruth. Ruth had a ha and he had a scare, but he Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (33:57.08)
Right. Especially with the heat to your point before. So in that and

And now you got the heat and you've got longer points and you got faster play. I mean, it's it's it's not not for the tenant. So good. Some it's it's good stuff, Alvin. It really is. And and I just I I can't I can't say it enough. A lot of the times we're watching this, and you have to understand all that compounds on each other, right? All of that compounds. Not to mention the confidence level of an opponent who's getting stronger every rally, and you being the seed. You can't ride momentum and confidence.

confidence and and shell shock, all sh star struck effect, for very long, you know. And and you you you need to kind of strike where the iron is hot, but a lot of times, let's face it, a big time player comes out, they're already up a set and a break. I mean they already kinda know, you know, and

Even the the young man, the young French player that played center today, you know, Clement Tabour. It was, you know, he was down two. He hadn't even made a lot of mistakes, Alvin. He was down two just just for walking out there after warm-up. I mean center's about as sharp as they come. the sh as sharp as they come. I mean, let me say no, as the he is he's the definition of sharp. So and you s and this young man held serve at at to two one and you felt like

He got online pretty quickly, all things considered. So I just said to say in every set got a little stronger. Every set played a little tougher. He lost one, three, and four. But again, even the score

Torrey Hawkins (35:27.48)
Tells you the story. He was getting closer each set. He was finding his legs a little quicker. He had Yannick slicing. He had Yannick going down drop shots. There was some great tennis in that unfortunate lopsided win. It just shows you that even one 170 in the world, you know, if they if they're a clay court player, they know how to play themselves into a match. And again, on the clay, you know, you you have a chance if you know what you're doing.

Alvin Owusu (35:53.32)
Yep. wanna bounce over to the women's side. just a couple of matches of note that I was impressed with Haley Baptiste taking down Barbora Krichikova. that was a dicey first round matchup. you and I you know I think a lot of people circled that one. Haley's also he's having a great year so far. She recently beat Sabalenka. boy, yeah. Coming up against a former French Open champion and Barbora Krichikova.

Torrey Hawkins (36:13.25)
She loves defending those set points, the match points down, does she not?

Alvin Owusu (36:20.905)
Yeah, it sticks down six two in the third, but w it was down some match points in the second set. And just coming up with stuff, Haley coming up with stuff didn't, you know maintain composure. Weather the storm, I think that's a that is a that is a win signaling good things. You want to get those under the belt as opposed to losing those tight matches, especially first time being seated at a grand slam.

Torrey Hawkins (36:32.212)
She shots good boy. No.

Torrey Hawkins (36:46.86)
Saw some belief from her, Alvin, and I've seen it since the Sabalinka match. She always has had belief in Haley. Don't get me wrong, Haley's certainly not one to lack confidence. But there were some moments in the match where I was watching her more than watching a few of the points in between changeovers. She just has a look of belief. I saw a little bit last year with Taylor Townsend when she had a nice run. Some of these players that are they're now starting to really believe that they can do it and will do it. saw a little bit of it year a year and and and or so.

with Vicky and Boco, now that now that belief is is is it's not just determination now, it is bona fide, I'm going to do this thing. And I and I'll be honest, I thought today was as good of a win as she's had.

on the clay because I don't I wouldn't say clay is her best surface, but at the same time, you know, Haley just looked like she was never very worried or or very she was always able to get back whatever she lost in and whether she was getting ran or whether the score was a little bit out a little bit the other way and then to have her finish that match out pretty convincingly in the third was really good to see.

Alvin Owusu (37:55.134)
Kind of similar similar story here with Alina Svitalina Alina Svitolina getting past Anna Bondar. they've had they've gone back and forth over the over the years. Bondar's had the better of her the last two times in this this year, but seven six in the third, ten three in the match breaker to Svitalina again, just kind of a not necessarily a war of attrition, but when it got to the back end of that match, Svitalina was was fit for it. She was she she showed conviction. she looked willing to take the match, which is a

You know, this is that is like the hallmark of the news Fitolina. you know, post yeah, more conviction. More conviction. another player I want to make sure I I we mentioned in our last podcast, we talked about Emma Navarro. She was making a nice little run at Strasbourg. she I think when we recorded she was in the semifinal that event, she ended up winning that event. she beat Ali Ivayovich along the way, she beat Victoria Mboko along the way, and I believe she beat Vicky in the final.

Torrey Hawkins (38:29.228)
Good work, indeed. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (38:54.881)
comes into into the French Open today, gets her first round win. Fantastic. Meets setting up another matchup with Jovich in the second round. and Jovich took out Alexiala, I believe. Yeah. that'll be interesting. Emma's playing some good ball right now. And I know she's still she's still working through some of those health issues that had her out for a good part of the beginning of the year and then, you know

Torrey Hawkins (39:09.88)
I was looking at

Alvin Owusu (39:23.173)
even struggling when she came back. but she seems her game seems like it's in a good place right now. which, you know, she has semifinal to Grand Slam before. S she has beaten top ten players at Grand Slam's before. You don't just forget how to do that, you know, if the tennis is there and the health is there, then then, you know, enter another contested into the into the the arena, which is it's good to see. It's just good to see the best players.

performing at the biggest events. So that's fun. That's fun. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (39:56.834)
Yep. Question for you.

And by the way, Emma, if there's a great if there's a term of her to come back on, I think it's a to really kind of restate her presence and where she's at, it's it's the French. She's an athlete, she moves incredibly well. She's, you know, if of all of a lot of the Americans, you know, especially ones that went to college, she has some of the best feel and some of the best movement and the different types of ball. She heavy, drive, slice, feel. I mean, she gets she does it all, which I think this is a good I'm really looking forward to some more tennis from her. I'm I'm sure she is as well.

Not to be controversial, but I have been questioning why in the five going on six years we give the media give so much airtime to Emma Rodhakanu. I watch parts of her matches and I feel like it has been

Alvin Owusu (40:43.922)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (40:50.774)
Years and we're still waiting to see some of that again. And I think I I know you and I have had this conversation on this podcast before, not a lot because it's not worth talking a lot about, but she continues to be. I'm gonna say we keep holding out hope again, and there are other Grand Slam champs who don't get a mention.

Alvin Owusu (41:16.104)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (41:18.486)
Right. I'm thinking of like Marcheta Bajasova, who's, you know, who I think is, you know, every bit of a of dangerous still if she's healthy, Barbara Krajikova, right? And and others who have been have won a a slam. and I just wonder why, in your opinion. And I just because I'm I'm curious why the double standard. I don't think she's given us anything to be excited about potentially returning to the last day of a slam. I don't think she will. And I'm just curious as to why the double standard

With them a Radicano.

Alvin Owusu (41:50.023)
Yeah, I think you know, within tennis circles, I don't think deep tennis circles are spending a lot of time talking about about Emiratanu. I think it's it's more of a media thing and media thrives on characters and she's a character. you know, she's from a major country. She is not an ugly woman. I think these things these things matter in the media.

And I want to make a d a sharp distinction here between tennis circles and media tennis circles, right? And I I I I try to state it as much on this podcast if it's not obvious. we are tennis people here, right? You and I, we are we are tennis people. I think maybe because we have a podcast, we get lumped into into media, so be it. Fine. But we are tennis we are tennis people, we talk about the tennis. And this is why we talk about Barbora Kretchikova, right? This is why

Torrey Hawkins (42:40.822)
But yeah.

Alvin Owusu (42:49.101)
we sometimes don't talk about Sophia Kennan. She's won a grand slam. Sh but sh but she is if you're not if you're not

Torrey Hawkins (42:53.662)
She was a she was the next I was saying. We went on

We don't hold her to the same, you know, we don't see her getting her getting Sophia, you weren't you we were still looking for that same magic you had back when you made Layla. No, no. And and I think that's and that's my point. I feel like it's a huge double standard with Emma. And and your point's valid. Your point's well taken. I just had to bring it up because I keep almost to the point of getting annoyed now. You know, whatever every time I see her getting her getting interviewed as if, you know, as if that kind of precedes everything. And and not that it should. No one can ever take that away from her. She's got tennis mortality as far as I'm concerned on the record.

books. However, the Emma we see today in the field we see today, in the and the level she's bringing today are two very different Emmas. And I think I guess had to I guess had to put that out there.

Alvin Owusu (43:40.137)
I mean I'll I'll speak to the I'll speak to the positive sides of Emma Ronakanu's tennis. she I think we both agree she has top twenty talent like ability. G w win another Grand Slam, yeah, probably not. I mean, anything had happened, you would have said the same thing before she won a a grand slam and I'll say probably feel the same way after. Like okay, probably not, but it could happen. but she does have I mean, she's not here now off of those points.

Right. She has maintained her status as a professional tennis player who has direct entry into Grand Slams and and Masters 1000s, right? So there is a that that del that deserves a certain level of respect as a professional. More than willing more than willing to give it to her. Do I and I again, we'll reiterate, I do believe that if healthy and you know, in form, then she is a probably a top twenty player. That is

Torrey Hawkins (44:19.499)
Torrey Hawkins (44:24.386)
For sure.

Alvin Owusu (44:39.964)
You know, but then she does things that kind of sh w I feel like shoot herself in the foot. Like obviously the the continuing of changing coaches, that's like her thing. That's that's fine. That's her thing, right? But it's not like her thing is doing her a great deal of service. Like she's the only person doing this thing. And I think in order for, you know, to to build a career, you need to kind of stay the course for a little while. others have said it, I've said I'm saying it as well. Whatever. but

To her credit, she is the number one ranked women's player from a Grand Slam nation, right? I th I do believe she's still the number one the the G B number one.

Torrey Hawkins (45:16.588)
I think that's in jeopardy here. I think that's I think Katie Balter maybe on the heels of knocking her off. To your point, I think she's I think she's close to forty now. If if she's not forty, she's forty all day on a bad day. Let's be honest. I'm just saying she's twenty, maybe, maybe a ta touch higher on a good day. I just feel like I don't know. I I I just

I I don't see Magda Magda Lynette being interviewed as heavily. I don't see Miss Freck and and others in that same span getting the same amount of love and and media attention and and and that's and I and I hear you on on on on looks and this and that. sure she's easy on the eyes. That's that's fair. But and she didn't win a slam. We're gonna give her that. I just there's just many others who have won a slam who are almost forgotten a couple years later and I feel like

Like we're still bringing her up as if Dumb and Dumber's famous line, so you're saying there's a chance and and in my mind I don't think there is one. And so that's why I had to bring up the question. I

Alvin Owusu (46:19.237)
Yeah, I mean that's that's my that's my that's my guess. I I there are other Brit UK based tennis podcasts that I listen to and they talk about her with a pulse on, you know, on how the nation covers her and apparently she's extremely like the people in in G B write about her and talk about her a lot. So I'm sure they have their reasons. we

Torrey Hawkins (46:44.012)
When you when you're when you starve for a lot of top players you do that. I mean and I and I

Alvin Owusu (46:47.346)
Sure.

Torrey Hawkins (46:47.968)
That and and and again we we've talked about it enough. I here's a four-time Grand Slam champ that I'd like for us to I'd like to see more of. And and that's Miss Osaka and I love her two things, Alvin. She had an a quote unquote black party, not a black party, a black party for all of the people of color at before the tournament. I saw saw an article on that and was happy to see that. our very own ATL native Eubanks was there in attendance.

as an honorary Alicia Parks as well by the way.

Alvin Owusu (47:18.001)
Alicia Parks as well. Well it was Alicia Parks or Asia Muhammad. I d sometimes get the two of them. Okay.

Torrey Hawkins (47:22.518)
I I think I think both actually. I think both I I think she planned it with Asia. I think she and Asia have go way back and I think Alicia was there. bottom line it was just good to see and and it was it was a player like her who I felt I felt that was a nice touch. Second, I liked her getting through Miss Siegelman, the the the the the butcher of all butchers who will make sure you have your complete set of tools when you come out to to that to that to to that to that event and I was really happy to see her get through it.

Alvin Owusu (47:40.655)
Have tests.

Torrey Hawkins (47:52.484)
And you're gonna, Laura's gonna make you play 18 different ways. And so it's good to see her her her sk her scalpel was sharp, her blunt instrument was was was heavy enough and her and her mind was clear. And so it was really good to see on the clay that that could be a tough day in the office. And I was happy to see her get through in straights, but even though it was a bit close, but I wanted to say that up for her, and I feel like, you know, it just did me good to see her.

in in a in a moment that perhaps she may be one of the few that can right speak to that with the with the station that she has as a four-time Grand Slam champ. It was it was neat to see. So anyway, I had to I had to mention that with her and I feel like that didn't get enough publicity and I wanted to wanna mention it here. You know what I mean?

Alvin Owusu (48:41.297)
Fair enough. Fair enough. She will have a much more straightforward tennis match. she's playing Donna Vecich in the second round, which is on my on my short list of matches to watch. you know, Katie McNally against Belinda Benchich. I think that's another that that is a match of I think note in that Belinda has had a pretty good year so far. Actually a really good eighteen months. but Katie is starting to come on and

Katie can disrupt Belinda. She can rush her. She can give her a lot of things to deal with. so when you're talking about an unseated player who matches up pretty well against a top, I think Belinda's seated eleven in this event, I believe. that one's got my attention. I think I'll be keeping eyes on that one in the next few days. that's probably about it on the women's side. Some other matches. I think the women's the women's tournament's gonna heat up here probably around three and four. It's gonna get really, really good. but on the men's side there are some

I know a match I circled to a round two match that like I if I have the if if if it works out for me in the next few days Kasmanovich versus Borges. That would just be like Miamar versus Nuno. Like I just like wanna be there. That's gonna be out like on court like 10 or something, and they're just gonna be on the baseline, just unloading balls at each other. that is gonna be a really good.

Torrey Hawkins (49:50.835)
Nino. yeah yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (50:10.055)
Clay Court tennis match.

Torrey Hawkins (50:11.736)
And and there are several. I mean, Hercats and Tiafo. It's another one that there's gonna be there's gonna be some some slinging. you know, I thought about you know, what what I saw another one that was that kind of caught. Mahat Sarah, sure well that will always be some bit some swinging. unfortunately Mahatch Mahatch in those kind of matchups tends to only because he's also is he is he is he checked? Only because it's it's it's

Alvin Owusu (50:16.975)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (50:25.465)
Mahat Mahat Zverev will be that could be interesting.

Alvin Owusu (50:38.791)
Please check, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (50:39.776)
Yeah only because i Mahatch can be he he can be very up up or down. I I know what you're saying though. who was it that that I thought could be a a decent that I saw was actually gonna be a decent match. Tommy Paul and and Sonago after his crazy five minute match against Mr. Pierre Hugh and the other one was

Alvin Owusu (51:01.905)
I mean Bossafredi and Mickelson, that'll be I mean, they go way back. They're both you know, young Americans who've known each other for fifteen plus years at this point.

Torrey Hawkins (51:05.708)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (51:10.048)
Right. Right. again I and it'll it'll it'll come to me when I when I see it, but I I say it to say a lot of there's a lot of good matches that are coming up that I that I just feel could be some pretty good Gaston and Sorendalo. I th that you just you just kinda see these clay quarters. Anytime you got some of these the the the French always shows up strong watching their player. they were watching that Sonigo match against Mr.

Paul Hughes. It was Pierre. So Pierre Hughes the other day. It was they I think it was like twelve, one o'clock at night, and every French player in the French person was in there till twelve thirty-one o'clock at night. It was just it was great to see. So though there's some there's some good matches upcoming and and I and I and I love seeing it. I I do wanna mention my one crazy thought, Alvin, and I and I keep saying it, I just I just have to say it. The ATP

Alvin Owusu (51:51.089)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (52:09.014)
The WT as well. They should adopt a 30 tournament max and let the players play within a certain span of time. And I feel, and I give you a couple of quick high-level reasons as to why. Number one, the French Open, I feel unfortunately, in particular, gets the lion's share of withdrawals and retirements in a tournament that you have to be perhaps your fittest coming into.

We've got three top tens gone. We've got a handful of retirements, but you've also got another, I want to say it was 17 total. So let's say that was 14 other retire withdrawals due to injury before the tournament even started. That's number one. And I feel like that's a that's it's it's in a sense, it hurts one of the major slams of the year on which the whole on the whole year hangs. number two.

I feel like the top players are able to kind of buy their way out of the situation. They can take the hit, that 25,000, 50,000, whatever, because they have said 25 or 50,000 in earnest. And the third thing I'm gonna mention that I don't like about it, Alvin, is I feel like the players, and this is weird to say, can't help themselves but to keep playing.

But if you limited their amount of play or the numbers that they can, I think you would also get better strength than other draws. And you'd have people trying to really pick and choose to maximize the 30. Maybe for my match count, I need to play a mix of X, Y, and Z and this. And maybe for my money, I need to play a handful of these. At the same time, if I keep losing, and I know that I'm I'm not only gonna get this many tournaments, at that point, it changes things. I think a rule change is also important because now you're gonna be taking not my best.

Of 18 or my best 12 or my whatever, I'm taking all 30. There you there's my points. And that way now that 30 gives me a total number at the end. And I feel it's just a it's just a different way of looking at it. I just feel like unrestricted, we're gonna keep having more players out. And while that doesn't

Torrey Hawkins (54:23.5)
While it's not a huge issue now, I feel like it more and more tournaments being packed in the schedule will inadvertently hurt some of the bigger tournaments and therefore hurt the draw. All because a bunch of the, I'm gonna say, not as historic events are there to try to kind of soak up some of the some of the fringe time in between. And I just want to mention that I just I feel I saw it a lot last year. I I continue to see it, and I feel

like that I feel like the integrity of a slam should be protected a little bit by having less play. It's not to say that 30 minutes they could all choose to play all nine clay court terms in between Australia as well. Sure, fine. But I feel like that would certainly s severely hamper them on the back half of the year. And I feel like it could actually in my opinion it puts a little more puts a little more onus on the player to to maximize his own schedule or her. And I also feel like it just kind of puts a little bit of onus on the slam to where in my opinion where it should be. I don't know what

thoughts are on it. I'm sure have several, but I just had to say it because I just keep feeling like every time we go through these big events missing some big name players due to overplaying. We're not talking about he fell down the stairs and he and therefore that's why he's out. That's always gonna happen. But you're missing these players due to too much volume and they got to come back and turn around too quick and and to to for all reasons and I feel like a few less matches would help in that regard.

Alvin Owusu (55:51.217)
Well you'll you'll get my you'll get my retort in the next episode. I'm gonna leave the leave the cliffhanger there. I'm gonna leave it there. Yep. Let's let's enjoy round two and I'll come back to I'll come back to round that one. I'm Alvin. That's Tori. Best of three, we are out.

Torrey Hawkins (55:55.959)
yeah.